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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Jihadis Seize Golan Border Post; American Killed While Fighting Alongside ISIS; Tracking Western Jihadis; Paul Theo Curtis Expresses Thanks for Efforts to Free Him; Shirley Sotloff Pleads With ISIS to Free Her Son; Two British ISIS Fighters Praise Beheading

Aired August 27, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield, and welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

And we begin this hour with a new and alarming turn in the war in Syria. And this time, not the eastern front, which now consumes so much of Iraq. Instead, Syria's southwest border. The one with Israeli occupied Golan Heights. Today, Islamist rebels with the so-called al Nusra front took over a key crossing point after what's being called a heavy firefight with forces of Syria's president, Bashar al Assad, on the other side and not coming out well. These particular attackers are not ISIS, but they are tied to al Qaeda.

The Israeli military tells "The Jerusalem Post," three mortar shells landed on Israeli territory. But a spokesman is telling CNN that this is, quote, "an internal Syrian matter." That, despite the fact that the Golan Heights is nothing they would ever consider necessarily an internal Syrian matter.

CNN's Ben Wedeman has made his way to northern Israel. He joins me now on the telephone.

Ben, this is such a significant development, meaning that the Israelis, if they didn't already have a very keen eye trained on the Golan Heights, have an extraordinary keen eye on the Golan Heights, now dealing with the same kinds of things that the Americans have been watching on the eastern front. Tell me how the dynamic has now changed in this.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, certainly, we have seen fighting on the other side of the demarcation line inside Syria on the Golan Heights for quite some time. And what we saw today was a fairly intense barrage back and forth between government forces in Syria and the rebels, which, of course, include, according to Syrian activists, as well as the Israeli army, members of the Nusra Front, or (INAUDIBLE) in Arabic, which is affiliated with al Qaeda. And this would indicate, for one, that Nusra Front, which has had a presence in southern Syria for quite some time but seems to be playing a much more prominent role in the fight against the regime of Bashar al Assad now these -- it culminated in the takeover of the Syrian position at this crossing point near the Syrian town of Canatra (ph). The (INAUDIBLE), the Nusra Front, was able to take over the Syrian army position. So essentially now you have the Nusra Front facing off, just a couple of hundred meters from the Israeli army. There is a United Nations position in the middle.

Now, I spoke to Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner (ph) of the Israeli army who says that indeed three mortar rounds landed inside Israel - the Israeli-controlled territory, wounding one Israeli officer. But he stressed the fact that these were errant shells. They were not targeting Israeli forces in the area. But, obviously, now they've declared a closed military area around the demarcation line. They're on top alert in that area. And certainly the dynamics in that area have changed. If this means that Syrian regime forces are starting to lose ground in this critically strategic area on the Golan Heights.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: But what does it mean, Ben, for the Israeli defenses at this point? I mean, look, when they say, by their spokesperson, that this is an internal Syrian matter, they cannot possibly really mean that, knowing that there are Islamic militants right on their border, right at the Golan now.

WEDEMAN: That's true. But keep in mind, the Golan, the Israeli- occupied Golan Heights are highly militarized. There's a massive military presence there, even in the quietest of times and therefore this band of Nusra rebels certainly represent a change on the ground on the Syrian side but they are by no means a match for the Israeli forces in the Golan Heights. The Israelis have always kept a very close eye on what's going on on the other side of the demarcation line. And certainly since the fighting has spread, the chaos has spread in Syria since the outbreak of the revolution there, the uprising in March 2011. They've kept an ever closer eye in that area.

I've been in that - in close to the demarcation line. There are artillery batteries, there are tanks, there are armored personnel carriers. There is a lot of Israeli hardware in that area, in the event that the fighting spills over. So the Israelis are under no illusions that that is a dangerous area but that they seem to be well prepared for it.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Well, keep an eye on things for us. I mean as you can see from these pictures, the Golan is just such a strategically critical area between Syria and Israel. It is effectively known as the high ground for the Israelis. And it has been feverishly protected and fought over for decades. And clearly with the jihadis seizing one of the border posts, that certainly ups the game for everyone in this already very complicated process.

Ben Wedeman on his way and watching this process for us and we'll continue to update what we know, when we know it, in this new and changing environment there.

Also, just to add to this, one Douglas McCain is certainly a tragedy, but the prospect of hundreds of Douglas McCains with jihad in their hearts and western passports in their pockets certainly you could consider a nightmare that the U.S. government says is front and center of its counterterrorism efforts. Douglas MacArthur McCain is believed to be one of two Americans who died while fighting shoulder to shoulder with ISIS, the Islamist militants also known as Islamist State. The Syrian opposition fighters have not identified the second American that they say was killed along side of McCain. All of this happening days ago in a clash with rival militants in Aleppo, Syria, light years from McCain's all-American upbringing in the Midwest and southern California. Yes, Midwest, southern California.

CNN's Dan Simon has more on this bizarre story.

Dan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've been trying to piece together as much as we know about Douglas McCain. We know that most recently he had lived here in San Diego and attended a community college seemingly trying to make something of his life. We know that he attended a mosque in the area regularly. But how and why he became radicalized at this point we don't know.

SIMON (voice-over): Douglas MacArthur McCain's family says they're devastated to learn the 33-year-old father was fighting with the terrorist group ISIS.

KENYATA MCCAIN, DOUGLAS MCCAIN'S COUSIN: It's crazy. I don't understand it. I don't even believe this. I'm in shock. Like, I don't even know how to feel. My cousin was not a terrorist. He is not a terrorist.

SIMON: McCain had been living in San Diego but grew up in New Hope, Minnesota, a suburb of Minneapolis. They describe him as a good person with a big heart.

MCCAIN: He would have you laughing to tears. He was happy. He was smart, you know, he wasn't a radical, no. He wasn't hate filled. He loved, loved, loved -- like even if you don't love him back, he still love you. That's how he is.

SIMON: Raised a Christian, McCain converted to Islam several years ago. His conversion did not alarm his family. Rather, it was posts on social media increasingly sympathetic to ISIS and other radical Islamist groups that got their attention. On a Twitter account reported to be McCains the bio reads, "it's Islam over everything." He writes messages like, "I will be joining you guys soon," and, "I'm with the brothers now." And retweets posts like, "it takes a warrior to understand a warrior. Pray for ISIS."

U.S. counterterrorism investigators have been looking in to McCain's activities for some time. He was on a terror watch list of Americans believed to have joined militant groups and would be stopped and questioned if he traveled. McCain had some past run-ins with the law. Between 2000 and 2008, he was arrested at least six times, all for minor offenses. Isaac Chase, who grew up with McCain, says he was a nice, quiet kid who loved playing basketball. He says McCain was impressed that Chase was serving with the Air Force in Iraq and make something of his life and wanted to do the same. ISAAC CHASE, DOUGLAS MCCAIN'S FRIEND: It don't make no sense. The Doug

I know is a good person and I wouldn't even think that he would ever do anything like that.

SIMON: Several months ago, McCain told family members he was traveling to Turkey. What they did not know is that from there he made his way into Syria, to ISIS strongholds, to fight and die for their cause.

SIMON (on camera): And you can bet that U.S. intelligence authorities will be combing into every aspect of McCain's life, which could hopefully lead them to other Americans serving in ISIS or those sympathetic to its cause.

Dan Simon, CNN, San Diego.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: And I want to talk more about the staggering task of tracking western jihadis with CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Army Major General James "Spider" Marks, and also with former CIA covert operations officer Mike Baker.

Gentlemen, thanks to both of you for joining me.

Spider, let me start with you if I can. The notion that Americans may consider bombing other American citizens yet again on foreign soil because of this ideological war that's being fought, is this the best way to go about trying to tamp down this threat of them returning to the United States by actually bombing them in country? Or would it be perhaps more prudent to get them at the border on their way home? Meaning, track them, use intelligence, catch them, and then actually use them for further intelligence?

JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Then interrogate them. Ashleigh, that's correct. But what we are -- what the United States is trying to do now is prosecute what, frankly, is just a tactical engagement with ISIS and, now, other terrorist organizations loosely affiliated with al Qaeda in that ungoverned part of the world. And, sadly, U.S. citizens that have chosen to leave the United States and have joined these terrorist organizations put themselves at great risk. And they can become targets. We should take -- we should not hesitate, if they happen to get into the cross hairs, they're going to end up being casualties.

The issue is, are these likely candidates to return to the United States? The short answer is yes. And is there a benefit, if we, can track then? In other words, if they're not casualties, if they don't die for their cause, whatever their now ill-defined cause is, and they come back to the United States, absolutely, the United States should track them very, very closely, grab them as they enter into the United States, provided they don't offer any type of a threat in their effort to get back to the United States. And clearly the United States should bring them under justice and then interrogate them and find out what else motivates them and what else they know so that we can get ahead of future incidents. BANFIELD: Yes. And to be really clear, this latest killing of an

American, you know, jihadi sympathizer, Douglas MacArthur McCain, we're already getting the claim for it, and they were Syrian opposition groups fighting ISIS who said that they did this in a pitched battle. It wasn't Americans per se.

But, Mike Baker - and, by the way, just what you're looking at on your screen is his U.S. passport. It's just unusual to see that the person we're talking about, someone fighting alongside ISIS, an American citizen, actually had his U.S. passport, he had U.S. documents on him, and apparently American money as well.

So, Mike Baker, if the strategy -- if we're talking about at this point is really hard to pin down numbers. We don't really have a signup sheet anywhere. But there are, roughly, it's believed to be, somewhere over a dozen or so of these Americans who may have joined this philosophical battle against westerners and other Americans with the jihadis. If the Americans do choose to take the battle there, could this not just play right into the hands of what the jihadis love to do, and that is put out the propaganda, saying America bombs its own, wherever they are?

MIKE BAKER, FORMER CIA COVERT OPS OFFICER: Yes, I don't see that as being a particularly effective recruiting tool for them. Look, they --

BANFIELD: Why not?

BAKER: They've been doing this for years. Well, in a sense, we've been talking about this for -- since 9/11, about extremist jihadists, whether we're talking about al Qaeda or ISIS, frankly, the mind-set remains the same about pursuing westerners. We've got a small number of Americans. The number of Europeans over there, and certainly North Africans, is much more significant. But they've been working on this primarily through social media, direct contact or indirect contact, it doesn't matter to them, as long as they get them to the dark side. And so the idea that we would go in and conduct air strikes or other activity on the ground and possibly have another casualty too or a handful of these westerners, possibly Americans, you know, it's a marginal opportunity for them as a recruiting tool.

The bigger recruitment tool for these guys at this point is this physical realization of essentially a caliphate that they've been talking about for years and years. The idea that they've now got some territorial integrity and are consolidating that turf is a very powerful thing, and also the additional resources that they've been able to grab during this march through Syria and Iraq.

BANFIELD: And now possibly even towards the Golan it's a, you know, apparently the association that captured this border point on the Golan was with a radical group of jihadis. So, Islamic militants with the Syrian - you know, fighting the Syrian army.

So, gentlemen, I could speak to you forever. I'm flat out of time, though. But, thank you, Mike, and thank you, Spider, appreciate that.

MARKS: Thanks, Ashleigh. BAKER: Thank you.

BANFIELD: So what motivates ISIS fighters to just radicalize just like that and then actually go on the actual attack? Coming up, two British ISIS members who are currently fighting in Syria speak with CNN about their beliefs and whether they will bring their fight back to their western homes.

Also next, newly released American hostage Peter Theo Curtis home, finally, after two years in captivity. He talks publicly for the first time since his release and you will hear his words, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Just a short time ago, American journalist Peter Theo Curtis spoke publicly for the first time since being freed after nearly two years in captivity.

After reuniting with his mom, Curtis spoke this morning with words of gratitude and also a request for privacy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER THEO CURTIS, JOURNALIST HELD CAPTIVE IN SYRIA: In the days following my release on Sunday, I have learned bit by bit that there have been literally hundreds of people, brave, dedicated, and big hearted people all over the world working for my release. They have been working for two years on this.

I had no idea when I was in prison, I had no idea that so much effort was being expended on my behalf. And now, having found out, I'm just overwhelmed with emotion.

I'm also overwhelmed by one other thing and that is that total strangers have been coming up to me and saying hey, we're just glad you are home, welcome home, glad you are back, glad you are safe, great to see you.

So I suddenly remember how good the American people are and what kindness they have in their hearts, and to all those people, I say a huge thank you from my heart, from the bottom of my heart.

And now, look, I'm so grateful that you are expressing all this interest in me. At the same time, I have to bond with my mother and my family now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Understandable. Unbelievable.

It is thought that Curtis was captured in 2012 in Syria by a Syrian rebel group with ties to al Qaeda, but we do know this -- he was handed over to U.N. peacekeepers on Sunday and was able to travel back home safely to Boston yesterday. And that is just a great story.

In the meantime, however, there is something else at play. The family of another American journalist being held by ISIS militants, well, they're now pleading publicly for his life.

This is Steven Sotloff who vanished in Syria last year. This is him on that same video that showed the gruesome beheading of his friend and fellow journalist James Foley. The executioner vowing to kill Sotloff too if United States air strikes didn't cease.

This morning, al-Arabiya network broadcast an emotional appeal by Steven Sotloff's mom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHIRLEY SOTLOFF, STEVEN SOTLOFF'S MOTHER: I'm sending this message to you, Abu Bakr, the caliph of the Islamic State. I am Shirley Sotloff. My son Steven is in your hands.

Stephen is a journalist who traveled to the middle east to cover the suffering of Muslims at the hands of tyrants. Steven is a loyal son, brother and grandson. He's an honorable man and has already tried to help the weak. We've not seen Steven for over a year and we miss him very much. We want to see him home safe and sound and to hug him.

Since Steven's capture, I've learned a lot about Islam. I've learned that Islam teaches that no individual should be held responsible for the sins of others. Steven has no control over the actions of the U.S. government. He's an innocent journalist.

I've always learned that you, the caliph, can grant honesty. I ask you to please release my child. As a mother, I ask your justice to be merciful and not punish my son for matters he has no control over.

I ask you to use your authority to spare his life and to follow the example set by the Prophet Muhammad who protected people of the book. I want what every mother wants, to live to see her children's children. I plead with you to grant me this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Until recently, Sotloff's family had worked in secret to try to secure his release, fearing ISIS would harm him if they went public. But clearly they went public first.

So what motivates ISIS terrorists to take hostages and sometimes kill them in the most bay barbaric ways?

CNN has now interviewed two British ISIS members who are now fighting in Syria. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you personally believe in beheadings and executions? Would you personally partake in one?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would be personally honored. I hope god gives me a chance to do such a thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: More than honored to do that kind of execution.

We're going to have more of that interview with ISIS fighters, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: To the civilized world, James Foley's horrible death was just that, horrible and unspeakable. But to jihadi radicals, it was an act to be celebrated. Celebrated.

Listen for yourself in this exclusive and chilling report from CNN's Atika Shubert.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHUBERT: The videotaped killing of James Foley wasn't just a message to America. It was also a recruitment video for young men like these.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My initial reaction, personally, was that this was a direct, justified response to the crimes of the U.S. against the Islamic State.

SHUBERT: We've spoken to Abu Bakr and Abu Anwar (inaudible) before, two foreign fighters inside Syria, one of them British, claiming to be absolute believers in ISIS's medieval view of the world.

Do you personally believe in beheading and executions like this? And would you actually partake in one?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would be more than honored to partake in an execution like this.

I hope god gives me the chance to do such a thing god's brother did with James Foley, whether it's somebody like James Foley or a soldier of America.

My hands are ready to do this blessed act.

SHUBERT: The Muslim Council of Britain, for example, has come out condemning the killing of Foley, saying it is brutal and abhorrent and anybody who follows this belief is misguided.

What's your response to that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Muslim Council of Britain, they are apostates. They are not Muslims. They have always fought against Islam with the British government.

They've tried to stop young man going to Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and they work in these so-called -- they are not Muslims. So this reaction coming from them is not surprising.

SHUBERT: Who are these young men willing to commit such brutality despite worldwide condemnation? Of British's nearly 3 million Muslims, only 400 have gone to fight in Syria, roughly the same amount of Muslims currently listed in the British army.

Experts paint a diverse picture of British Muslim extremists. Most are single men under the age of 30. A significant number are older and married with children. Many are converts to Islam or British born to immigrant families.

Many are deepening their extremist ideology online. Some have links to gangs and criminals but many are well educated and from middle class families. Intelligence analysts say there is no one statistical profile or trigger that leads young men to such extremes.

The last time we spoke, both insisted they would not return home. That has now changed. Abu Bakr, in particular, seems willing to come to Britain and bring his jihad with him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no other choice but to come back and just try to -- a very reasonable message, so I'm ready to take that step to come back if your armies, if your countries don't stop attacking us.

SHUBERT: Any fighter bringing their so-called holy war back home is exactly what many Western security officials fear most.

Atika Shubert, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: So how does someone go from a middle class Westerner to becoming a convicted terrorist?