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At This Hour

Britain Raises Terror Threat Level; White House Press Briefing Soon; NATO Chief: Russia Seeking to Destabilize Ukraine as Sovereign Nation

Aired August 29, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm John Berman. Michaela Pereira is off today.

Our breaking news this morning, ISIS terrorists have the world on edge. Britain's terror threat level was just raised to severe.

Will the United States now take similar action? A White House news conference is set to begin just about 30 minutes from now. You can see there in the corner of your screen, a live picture of the White House.

Just a short time ago, British Prime Minister David Cameron warned the dangerous that ISIS poses now is the greatest and deepest threat to security that Britain has ever known.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Let's be clear about the source of the threat that we face. The terrorist threat was not created by the Iraq War 10 years ago. It existed even before the horrific attacks on 9/11.

The root cause of this threat to our security is quite clear. It is a poisonous ideology of Islamic extremist that is condemned by all faiths and by all faith leaders. It believes in using the most brutal form of terrorism to force people to accept a warped world view and to live in an almost medieval state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: We're following all angles on this news from Britain, and here in the United States.

Our Karl Penhaul joins us from London. Former Homeland Security official Juliette Kayyem is on the phone with us from Boston. She's also a CNN national security analyst. And our terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank is standing by in Washington.

Karl, first, I want to go to you here, severe is the second highest level in the British warning system. It means they believe an attack is highly likely. Do they say why? KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, John. Highly likely, that

is what this terrorist alert means. It is the highest level it has been now for three years, but there is no specific nor imminent threat.

And when we asked the prime minister, what do you think the terrorist attack is that is highly likely, well, then he was referring back to the threat posed by British or British-born jihadis returning from areas like Syria or Iraq, and that essentially is a threat that the British intelligence service and global intelligence services have known for a long time now.

What also Mr. Cameron went on to say, describing this brand of Islam as a poisonous ideology, he said that there were measures needed to tackle it, the causes and symptoms of it, both internationally and also at home in Britain.

Internationally, of course, he was talking about things like helping to build a solid government in Iraq and helping humanitarian aid efforts. He was also saying that Britain would support U.S. intelligence-gathering missions for its strikes against ISIS positions.

And then he also turned to the home front and said some of the measures needed there, putting travel bans on Britons or residents in Britain planning to travel to Islamic hotbeds, and also possibly taking their passports away as they returned. He said he was going to give parliament a more deep briefing about those subjects, come the next week.

But he also then went on to say it is a duty of everybody in Britain to adhere to a set of British values. When the international media tried to ask him what exactly he had in mind about those specific British values, he did not answer.

John?

BERMAN: All right, Karl. Thanks so much.

Juliette Kayyem, there's clearly huge concern also -- the British prime minister mentioned it -- about 500 people from Britain now fighting alongside ISIS militants and other militant groups in Syria.

There's also a clear concern that the voice on the James Foley execution tape seemed to be British but is that enough to raise the threat level in Britain?

Raising the threat level does seem like a big deal. Is there something else going on here that we're not being told?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST (via telephone): It may not be something specific. You know, generally, and I thought this was really interesting when Cameron made it clear, he personally was not involved with the decision by their equivalent of a joint terrorism task force to raise the threat level, in other words like what we've done in the United States, he took it out of politics. What -- the sort of evidence that one can surmise at least from what's happening is they do know about these 500-plus British. They easily move across borders because of their passports and visas, and it may be that they've lost track of too many of them to feel at ease right now.

And so Cameron said that the elevation is both a sort of statement to the people of Britain, you know, watch, look, see what's happening in your communities. It helps public safety officials and so sort of to be able to be more rigorous, and then also puts on some visa and passport controls, which is clearly probably of greatest concern for the British right now.

This is not like the United States. This is not an issue where people are moving from Iraq to Syria to Baltimore easily. You know, London has, you know, sort of visa-free standards throughout Europe, and because of the geography, this is of great concern for them.

BERMAN: I actually want to talk more about that and how the U.S. might now respond.

Paul Cruickshank joins us as well. We were looking at there a live picture of the White House. I should add that we are expecting to hear a briefing from the White House press secretary at 11:30. I am sure this will come up, and there will be new questions about the United States response as well.

But, Paul, how does the American situation differ from the British situation, and do you think this might push the United States toward taking further action?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, it differs because Britain has a much greater threat. There are around 500 Brits who have gone to fight in Syria to join up with these jihadi groups, and about 250 who are now back in the U.K.

By contrast, about 100 Americans have traveled, but only around a dozen who have joined ISIS, so the scale of the threat is much bigger in the U.K., and I think this is quite clearly related to U.S. air strikes in Iraq and the concern that ISIS or its followers in the West, back in the U.K., could retaliate.

I think that's the reason the U.K. has raised its threat level today, John.

BERMAN: It's interesting. The British prime minister also says they will not be taking part, or at least have no plans to, in the current air strikes against ISIS in Iraq, and certainly don't foresee it in the future in Syria.

This seems like a British homeland issue. The prime minister did say they are going to start taking away passports of some people inside Britain.

Juliette, you worked for Homeland Security here in the United States, is it your experience that these heightened alerts and increased measures -- do they work?

KAYYEM (via telephone): I think they do. I think what's interesting right now is -- this is -- in my memory, this may be one of the greatest instances where now the United States has to assess its own new, terror-threat system.

People should remember we no longer have the color codes. A lot of people forget that. They were dropped a couple of year ago, and a new system call the National Threat Advisory System -- it's called NTAS --- is in place.

It does not raise new colors. It is more, I would say, descriptive, narrative, tells people what to do, tells local officials what to do, so there will be an assessment about whether an NTAS alert or bulletin is put out to localities.

So that's the process that's going on in the inter-agencies right now. That's probably why we haven't heard specifically from DHS yet, and may hear from the White House about it at 11:30.

But, look, raising alert levels is serious stuff because it not only raises public safety concerns for those in public safety, but obviously as citizens, we get nervous, and so it is not something to be done lightly when there is no specific credible threat, and that's what's being with us right now, because the color code, as everyone came to believe, was just not helpful. It terrified more than was helpful, in the past.

BERMAN: And I should say, CNN has heard from the TSA here in the United States, and they say as of now they have no plans to raise the threat level or the alert level here for travel in the United States.

But this does come in such an incredibly tense environment. Juliette, Paul, stick, around because I want to talk to you more.

This comes as the U.S. is taking military action in Iraq. This comes as the U.S. is considering possible military action against ISIS in Syria. This comes as the White House is cleaning up from President Obama's somewhat startling news conference yesterday where he surprised people by saying the United States does not have a strategy yet to deal with ISIS in Syria.

Still to come, @THISHOUR, as we are waiting for the White House briefing, an ISIS laptop seized in a raid, now we're finding out it contains instructions for turning a deadly disease into a weapon of mass destruction.

And before they brutally murdered him, ISIS terrorists reportedly took a page from the CIA when they tortured James Foley.

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BERMAN: We are awaiting a White House press conference at the bottom of the hour, about 11:30, sure to be questions there about the fact the United Kingdom has just raised its terror-threat level to severe. This is the highest level it's been in the United Kingdom in three years.

What effect will that have here in the United States? White House press secretary Josh Earnest sure to be asked in just a few minutes.

In the meantime, gruesome, new details coming to light about the ISIS terror group coming to light. Just as Britain raises the threat level to severe, we are keeping an eye, as I said, of what's going on there at the White House.

We want to focus, though, on the brutality in ISIS, including waterboarding, we're learning now. The "Washington Post" says American journalist James Foley, who was recently beheaded by ISIS, had been waterboarded, and at least three other hostages were also repeatedly subjected to that tactic.

Plus, reporters from "Foreign Policy" magazine gained access to what they call the "terror laptop of doom." This laptop exposes ISIS plans, "Foreign Policy" says, to unleash a biological weapon attack.

And a recent ISIS video shows hundreds of Syrian soldiers being executed. This is a brutal, brutal video. The terror group routinely executes its captives and posts these videos as a recruiting tool, and shockingly, they do appear to be attracting some Americans to their ranks as we have seen two killed in just the last week, not to mention many British citizens as well.

I want to bring back our terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank in Washington, also our military analyst, retired Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

General, I want to start with you here. These gruesome videos of Syrian soldiers being tortured, the news that they waterboarded James Foley, this is a group that seems almost proud of its brutality.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I agree, John. They are proud of it, and they are publicizing it as a mean of gaining new recruits.

But brutal isn't a kind enough -- it's not an accurate word. This is horrific. They are violating all laws of society. They are violating all laws of warfare. This is just gruesome and horrific and devilish, and I think that's where you are going to see some of the moderate Islamists begin to condemn this group repeatedly.

I think Prime Minister Cameron's comments this morning started that trend. Yeah, we've got to take care of this group. It's horrible.

BERMAN: And Paul, this terror laptop of doom from "Foreign Policy" magazine. It includes plans from a Tunisian chemist who had been working for ISIS who had been looking at biological weapons. How much of a concern is that?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, it's very concerning given his chemistry background. But it is very difficult to, sort of, weaponize these kind of programs. Al Qaeda has been trying to do it for 20 years, and they haven't gotten anywhere close. The worry, of course, with ISIS is they control significant parts of

Iraq and Syria. They have got a lot of cash, maybe tens of millions of dollars of cash reserves, and they may have access to hospitals and laboratories in the cities they can control. Which really contrasts with al Qaeda back in Afghanistan during the 1990s, who were in training camps far away from civilizations. So certainly concern, but no evidence yet that ISIS has any sort of program in place. There seems to be one individual researching this. Quite aspirational.

BERMAN: It would be surprising in some cases if there weren't people in ISIS right now looking into that. We know this is a modus operandi among some terror groups.

General Hertling, we know the White House, right now, says they are developing a strategy for dealing with ISIS in Syria. We heard the President say, as of now we have no strategy for any kind of military campaign in Syria. Lets leave the debate of whether or why he said that aside for a moment right now. But as a member of the military, how do you come up with these plans? And how much does the brutality that we've seen from ISIS impact those plans?

HERTLING: Well, you know, any colonel that's a graduate of the war college will tell you that strategy is made up of ends, ways, and means. The ends in this situation are very simple. Let's get rid of ISIS. It's the ways and means that are difficult. As we shifted our attention from the conflict in Iraq and assisting them to say how do you get after this base of -- in Syria, which is an area where we don't have a lot of ways and means to get in there, it's very challenging. And what I would suggest to you, John, is dropping bombs is not a strategy. It is a tactic, and it's a bad one at best unless there's some other measures that go along with it.

So that's the critical piece of this and I think that's what the President and his national security team are putting together. They are gathering intelligence. They are finding new ways to get after this, trying to build a coalition. They are looking at means to do it, in an area where there's a civil war going on. This is very complex, difficult to do.

BERMAN: Paul, based on what you know about terror groups like ISIS, do you think they fear U.S. military action? Or by taunting the U.S. with these videos and the like, do you think they are inviting it?

CRUICKSHANK: I actually don't think ISIS wants the United States to escalate it's campaign in Iraq or Syria. I think they want to get on with trying to create their Islamic state over there. This is a group, by the way, that's not been directly linked to a single terrorist plot in the west and that includes the period when they were known as al Qaeda in Iraq at the height of the Iraqi insurgency, when there were many U.S. counter-terrorism operations against them.

So I think they want to get on with it, they want to try and deter the United States by putting out some of these violent videos. But I think it the United States gets involved with strikes in Syria, that could be a red line for ISIS. That is their stronghold, they may feel it is existential threat. Then they could start putting their very significant resources into trying to attack the west. That would be a very frightening prospect indeed.

BERMAN: All right, Paul Cruickshank, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thanks so much.

And you know, Paul just mentioned that ISIS has not struck outside Syrian and Iraq yet. Nevertheless, Britain just raised its threat level to severe, the highest level there in three years.

We should note that President Obama is headed to the United Kingdom, to Wales next week for a meeting with NATO. How does that impact raising this threat level? Just one of questions we might hear at the White House in just a few minute. We are awaiting a press conference there. White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest will face questions from reporters. No doubt, including about the United Kingdom raising their threat level.

There is other news, including what is going on in Ukraine right now. We've seen new images of what look like Russian tanks in eastern Ukraine, but Moscow says its forces, its people, its tanks, not there. So who is right? We'll tell you what we know next.

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BERMAN: We are waiting for the White House press briefing this morning. It begins in just a few minutes. White House press secretary Josh Earnest will face questions from reporters. I want to hear what his response will be to the news that the United Kingdom has raised its terror threat level to severe. This just happens about an hour ago. That is the highest level it's been in Britain in three years. Also, no doubt the press secretary will also face questions about the President's statement that the United States still does not have a strategy to battle ISIS in Syria. We will bring you this briefing live as soon as it begins.

There were also major development this morning, and no doubt the press secretary will be asked about this too, concerning Ukraine. The NATO chief says Russia is trying to, quote, "destabilize Ukraine as a sovereign nation."

I want to you look at these satellite images. NATO says they show major military equipment, Russian heavy weapons and at least a thousand Russian soldiers in southern Ukraine. As we said, Soldiers with sophisticated heavy weaponry like this tank in southeastern Ukraine. Russia denies these accusations.

Matthew Chance is live from Moscow right now. And Matthew, we should say NATO is holding an emergency meeting this morning? What are they expecting to discuss, obviously they will be discussing these Russian moves and a possible response.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Clearly, I mean, these are very alarming moves as far as the western military alliance is concerned. They have given those satellite images, they have put those satellite images out, which they say show up to a thousand Russian troops from the regular Russian armed forces taking part in combat operations in Eastern Ukraine. Moving across the border from western Russian into eastern Ukraine.

It's not the first time that satellite images have been shown like this. It's not the first time the allegation, of course, has been made by western powers, including NATO, that Russia is essentially behind the insurgency against the Ukrainian government by pro-Russian rebels in the east and south of Ukraine.

But it's also not the first time, I have to say, that the Kremlin has categorically denied it. Again, they came out today, the Russian foreign minister, other officials as well, saying that any suggestions that Russian forces are playing an active role in combat operations in eastern Ukraine is pure conjecture. Again, total denial that this is something that's take is place, despite the mounting evidence that's been accumulated on the ground, John.

BERMAN: What we're hearing from Russian officials, Matthew, in some ways is fascinating. And that is euphemistic to say the least. You have the Russian foreign minister saying the types of pictures we're seeing from NATO right now, these satellite images of tanks and heavy weaponry in eastern Ukraine, they could be from computer games, the foreign minister says. Then you have the Russian President Vladimir Putin accusing the Ukrainians of acting like Nazis, tantamount to what the Nazis were doing when they sieged Leningrad in World War II. An incredible level of rhetoric from the Russians.

CHANCE: Yes, and it's the level of rhetoric that we've seen -- I don't think it's been stepped up, that level of rhetoric. It's the kind of language that we've heard used really from the outset of hostilities between the pro-Russian rebels and the Ukrainian government forces earlier this year.

You are right. Vladimir Putin speaking to a pro-Kremlin student crowd outside of Moscow earlier today. Talking about or comparing the sieges of Luhansk and Donetsk, rebel cities in eastern Ukraine, with the nazi siege of Leningrad back in the second World War. Leningrad, now St. Petersburg, of course, that is where Vladimir Putin originally comes from, so a very poignant, potent imagery that he's putting across there.

The whole thing is really, you know, a kind of continuation of the kind of language we've been seeing really from the outset, Russia continuing to deny its presence of its troops there, using that as a thin veil of deniability, which I think it thinks is helping to divide the western powers. Introducing enough doubt that European countries and the United States and others are reluctant to take any strong military action.

BERMAN: Of course, the NATO powers meet next week in Wales. The subject of Ukraine sure to dominate this meeting. Will they take a more firm response? Greater sanctions possibly? Provide arms -- more arms to the Ukrainian military? That remains to be seen.

Matthew Chance, in Moscow, thanks so much.

Ahead for us @THISHOUR, we are waiting for a briefing at the White House. Press secretary Josh Earnest almost certain to get questions about the news that came in just an hour ago, the United Kingdom boosting its terror threat level to severe, that means they think an attack is highly likely.

Also the President and his team on defense, still answering questions about what the President meant when he said the United States has no strategy to deal with ISIS in Syria. Stay with us.

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