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CNN Access to Americans in N. Korea; Desperate Plea from Americans; Cameron Outlines Terror Crackdown

Aired September 01, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Great to be with you all on this Monday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We begin with those three Americans held in North Korea. They get five minutes to talk to the world and leave behind one overriding message. America, please help us come home. In mere moments, you will hear live from CNN's Will Ripley on exactly how and why our correspondent got this unprecedented access in what is considered the most secretive nation in the world.

But first, I want you to hear from the men themselves, from Jeffrey Fowle on the left. He allegedly tried to leave a Bible in his hotel room. Kenneth Bae convicted and sentenced to hard labor for quote/unquote, "serious crimes." And Matthew Miller, who says he sought asylum in the country. Here they were.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFREY FOWLE, AMERICAN HELD IN NORTH KOREA: I don't have any complaints. The food's been good. I get a daily walk with the guides. Even medical care has been furnished a couple of times. And quarters good. Got a hotel suite type of room. So I don't have any complaint about the treatment. It's been very good so far and I hope and pray that it continues whether I'm here two more days or two more decades, whatever the case is.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And your message to your family.

FOWLE: Message is, I'll come home as soon as I can. My family is the biggest thing on my mind right now. I've got a wife and three (INAUDIBLE) school-age kids that depend on me for support. And my mother-in-law is staying with us too, so there's six of us in our household. If this goes beyond the end of September, then I'm in grave danger of losing my job. That's when my vacation benefits run out. And I'll be out of a job, (INAUDIBLE) will be out of income. I'm good for the time being, but I need to let people know that I'm getting desperate. I'm getting desperate.

RIPLEY: Did you tear up your visa and seek asylum? Is that report accurate?

MATTHEW MILLER, AMERICAN HELD IN NORTH KOREA: The previous interview, that is what I said. So I'm not here to discuss --

RIPLEY: Matt, tell me about your conditions here. How you're being treated.

MILLER: And I am in -- with good health. I've received medical checks and provided with humanitarian treatment.

RIPLEY: And what is your message to your family?

MILLER: First I'll just say my message to my governments. I've been requesting help for a long time, and there's been no movement from my governments. The American government is known for having a strong policy of protecting its citizens, yet for my case there is still no movement. I've also written a letter to my presidents, with no reply.

RIPLEY: While you're in North Korea?

MILLER: Yes, about one month ago. So for this reason, I am disappointed in my governments.

RIPLEY: What's your message to your family?

MILLER: I've had the opportunity to phone call them, so I've already spoken to them.

KENNETH BAE, AMERICAN HELD IN NORTH KOREA: And I've been going back and forth from hospital to the labor camp for the last year-and-a- half. And right now I'm serving at the labor camp right now. I've been asking the American government to act upon getting me released here. And I do believe that special envoy needs to come in order to resolve the situation that I am in right now. So I do ask the U.S. government to send an envoy as soon as possible. I am the American that has been here the longest since the Korean War. And I do believe that the sooner that this gets resolved, it would be better for not only myself, for the rest of the other Americans who may come here (ph). So I'm the only prisoner in the camp. I've been the only prisoner in the camp for the last, you know, year-and-a-half.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So those are the snippets of the strictly five-minute per person interview. Here he is, Will Ripley, joining me now from Pyongyang, live.

And so, Will, where to begin. I mean I know you and your crew, you arrived in North Korea five days ago. And, you know, you get there, you describe the place as a time warp. You know, you've been focusing on stories North Korea wants you to tell, wrestling events, a water parks. And then suddenly you're sitting at lunch with your crew, you get a phone call. Take me from there.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We were pulled away from lunch into the hallway and told that something had come up and that we had an urgent change of plans. We were supposed to go to a temple in the afternoon, but instead we were told to take our gear, get on a van. We had been taking a tour bus, which is a different van. And then took a different road, a two-hour drive back to Pyongyang.

We thought we were going to possibly speak with a government official. We put in a request at the beginning of our trip to talk to not only a government official but also the three detained Americans. But we were told that to speak with the Americans was pretty much impossible. So that really wasn't even on our radar.

As we approached this hotel, we didn't know really where we were. It was a route that was unfamiliar to us. And as we're standing at the front door getting ready to walk in, some more officials came out, they briefed us and said there had been another change of plans and the North Korean government decided to grant us access to these three detained Americans, as long as we followed the guidelines -- five minutes, we could only tackle certain topics. And if we veered away from those topics or went over the time, we were told the government would be very disappointed in us and there could be consequences.

BALDWIN: OK. So can you just walk me through, Will, some of the parameters, what were the questions they were very specific with you that you could and couldn't ask? And who else was in the room? What did we not see that only you and your crew saw?

RIPLEY: The topics we were allowed to discuss. First of all, the charges they were facing in North Korea. The conditions in which they were being held. And the message that they wanted to send to their families. And perhaps more importantly for the North Korean government here in Pyongyang, the message that they wanted to send to the American government.

They were each held in separate rooms, and we were followed by a group of North Korean officials. We were videotaped. There was an audio recording. Somebody was photographing us, as well. And then there were people that were watching and monitoring us. And also there was someone holding a timer and giving us time cues. So in some of the interviews I had to move things along a bit because we were - we were explicitly told that we could not have more than five minutes and I wanted to make sure that these three men had the opportunity to say what they needed to say within the parameters that we had agreed to.

BALDWIN: It's incredible. It's incredible. And each of these three men, they all admitted, you know, using the word "forgiveness" specifically. Let's take a listen to a little bit more of your interviews.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FOWLE: It's a cohort act and a violation of the tourist purpose, as well. And I've admitted my guilt to the government. And I signed a statement to that effect and also put in a request for forgiveness to the people and the government of the DPRK.

MILLER: I will say that I prepared to violate the law of the DPRK before coming here. And I deliberately committed my crime. I have already admitted my guilt and apologized to the governments of the DPRK. And I have been asking for forgiveness.

BAE: I did (INAUDIBLE) but I did not quite agree with the charges until I got here. So -- and after being on trial for, you know, that - during that period of time, I realized that what I did in a sense offended and has violated their law.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: Will, going back to just the first sound bite we played with Jeffrey Fowle, it almost appeared he was glancing down. I don't know if it was something he had written or someone else had written for him. What was he reading off of?

RIPLEY: I believe that they were his notes to try to organize his thoughts. He had a lot that he wanted to get in. He was very concerned about his family, his children. He was arrested on his daughter's birthday. His kids are in elementary school. His wife is a part time hairstylist. And so I think he wrote himself some bullet points, knowing that we had limited time and there were a lot of things that he wanted to say.

I don't know if they were coached beforehand, if there was a discussion with them like there was with us. It wouldn't surprise me if there was. Look, they signed written confessions. They've asked for the forgiveness of the North Korean government. But the fact is, they've now pleaded guilty to a crime here in this country, just like Kenneth Bae did. Kenneth Bae was found guilty. He's now serving 15 years working at a labor camp. And these men are staying in hotels, the other two Americans are in hotels right now. They're due to go on trial within the month. And they know that their conditions could drastically change if they do go on trial and are found guilty and then would be immediately sentenced after that. They could also end up in a labor camp. That's why you hear them say words like "a desperate situation," "we need help now," "time is running out."

BALDWIN: There are much bigger questions that we're going to talk to some experts about, about the situation, about really what this was all about, perhaps, for these Americans, for North Korea. But in the 60 seconds I have of you remaining live from Pyongyang in this satellite window, is there anything else you saw, anything that struck you about the interview that you have yet to share on CNN?

RIPLEY: You know, what struck me was that, for one, they looked good to me. I know Kenneth Bae has had some health problems recently, but they were well-dressed. They seemed to be in relatively good spirits. And I would imagine they're staying in a hotel similar to the one that we've been staying in here all this week. And the impression that I've had as a first time visitor here to the DPRK has been positive in my interactions with the people of this country. So I get the impression that the people that they're dealing with on a daily basis are respectful and kind to them, even in the midst of these very serious criminal charges and potentially years of incarceration that they're facing.

BALDWIN: What an experience for you and the crew to all of a sudden have these three interviews. Will Ripley, phenomenal, phenomenal reporting job. Thank you so much to you and our crew there in Pyongyang in North Korea.

Now, one of the three U.S. citizens, Kenneth Bae, has been there the longest, as Will mentioned, almost two years and is the only one convicted of a crime. Here's just a little bit more background for you. Bae is 46 years of age. He is a tour operator from Lynnwood, Washington. And he was arrested back in November of 2012 for, quote/unquote, carrying out serious crimes against North Korea. A devout Christian, Bae was suspected of evangelizing. He was sentenced last year to 15 years hard labor. So that's Kenneth Bae.

Then you have Matthew Miller. He's the youngest. He's 24 years of age. He's actually the youngest of the three. He's from Bakersfield, California. He was arrested in April after allegedly tearing up his tourist visa and asking for asylum. He told Will Ripley his specific charges haven't been announced pending trial, which should happen shortly.

And then Jeffrey Fowle, he is the oldest of the three, at 56. He has three children. He was detained in May for allegedly leaving a Bible behind in his hotel. And he too is awaiting trial.

As we mentioned, much, much more on this story throughout the next two hours. The reclusive and secretive North Korea, they have held Americans captive certainly for some time. So why reach out and give CNN this kind of access? We're going to dig deeper on that and much bigger questions, what's this really about, is this an act of desperation, are they looking to do a deal? We'll talk to some North Korean experts about that.

Also, jumping into a pool from the roof. I know it looks like a frat party. It's not. This is a residence at the U.S. embassy in Libya. And these are not Americans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The message was clear, help bring us home. These three Americans detained in North Korea getting a chance to speak to the world via these three five-minute interval interviews here on CNN. Kenneth Bae, Matthew Todd Miller and Jeffrey Edward Fowle were presented to CNN's Will Ripley at this Pyongyang hotel earlier today. And each, as I mentioned, I mean there were stop watches, there were North Koreans taking pictures and audio of CNN asking these questions in these interviews. They talked about how they're being treated. They talked -- shared messages for their families and their desperate pleas to the American government to bring them home.

So let me bring in Gordon Chang, he is a forbes.com columnist and author of "Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes on the World."

Good to see you, sir.

GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR, "NUCLEAR SHOWDOWN: NORTH KOREA TAKES ON THE WORLD: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Let's just begin with your first initial read and just the choreography, if you will, of how this whole thing went down.

CHANG: I think the most important thing was, they appealed to the American government to do something to let them out. There are unconfirmed reports that early last month senior U.S. officials flew to Pyongyang to talk to the North Korean counterparts about getting the release of these three individuals.

BALDWIN: Yes.

CHANG: And I think that these three interviews today really are a sign that those talks last month didn't go well. Because what Pyongyang is doing is putting pressure on Washington by having these interviews.

BALDWIN: But Washington too though has to be very careful in the way in which and how often they speak then to North Korea, because if North Korea starts to think, oh, OK, well, if they'll send over a Bill Clinton or a Jimmy Carter or someone else, well, we'll just snatch another American, because it's like a prize.

CHANG: Yes. And they've been doing that now for a half decade or more. And clearly, because you had President Clinton go and try to get the release of the two journalists, which he was successful at -

BALDWIN: Right.

CHANG: Then they snatched Kenneth Bae and then they snatched somebody else. So this is clearly a game. And that's why Washington has been very careful about not doing too much to get Kenneth Bae out. He's been there now for almost two years. He's not in good health. And, clearly, we would do more, but we're concerned about this hostage snatching critique -- routine that they're doing.

BALDWIN: Right. It is a routine.

CHANG: Right, it is a routine.

BALDWIN: It is a routine.

To your point though too, and I find this interesting, you know, a lot of people were wondering, and I've read articles where, oh, this could just be Kim Jong-un, you know, saying, look at me, world, I need the focus, I need the attention. But you say no. You say it's a much more specific to his interests.

CHANG: Yes. Yes. I mean anything is possible and we don't know, but there are a lot of other things which I think make much more sense. So, for instance, there is this secret trip last month. But also, you've got to remember right now that Kim Jong-un is trying to develop relations with countries other than China, because his relationships with Beijing are really bad right now. So he's reaching out to Moscow, he's reaching out to Tokyo, he's reaching out to Washington. And you've got to remember --

BALDWIN: How does Washington help him in those positions with Japan and Russia?

CHANG: Well, you know, it's easy for Kim Jong-un to go to Putin and say, look, you know, if you don't do a deal with me, if you don't give me aid, if you don't do this or do that, I'll get it from the Americans. So we might be used as a foil in some very complex negotiations. So that would be standard operating procedure. North Korea has done this for more than three decades. BALDWIN: Yes.

CHANG: You know, they've been doing this all the time of trying to play one capital off against the other.

BALDWIN: So if we have seen this movie before, Gordon Chang, then how does this version end?

CHANG: Well, I think this version ends that we do a lot to get Kenneth Bae out because, you know, there is nothing like the images of somebody who is in real distress. And that's what Americans do. So despite all of the geopolitical concerns we have, we will go and somehow get these guys out. And we should do that. But we should do it under conditions where we get something as well, and where we don't give the incentive to do this again.

BALDWIN: Quickly, what do you think in terms of what we would get out of it, what would North Korea be willing to give up?

CHANG: Not very much right now.

BALDWIN: That's what I'm thinking.

CHANG: And that's the real problem because Kim Jong-un's regime is in turmoil and he's not in a position to deal with the international community in good faith.

BALDWIN: OK. Gordon Chang, thank you so much for coming in on this Labor Day to talk about that. Incredible interviews. And if you're just tuning in, we'll play more for you throughout the next two hours.

Coming up, though, should your government be able to seize your property if they think you're going to travel somewhere to support ISIS? A bold called today by the British prime minister, David Cameron, targeting the terror group. And that's not all he wants to do. We have those details for you from this latest news conference coming up next here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You might have heard some talk, I know we certainly have, about British Prime Minister David Cameron supposedly sounding a whole lot tougher than President Barack Obama does, specifically on the topic of ISIS. I do want you to keep in mind, the black clad terrorist who beheaded James Foley, he is with ISIS, he spoke with that British accent, which highlights the fact that hundreds of British passport holders now fighting with ISIS could bring their war from the Middle East back home to Britain. And today, well, David Cameron is sounding really tough today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Mr. Speaker, we are proud to be an open, free and tolerant nation. But that tolerance must never be confused with a passive acceptance of cultures living separate lives or people behaving in ways that run completely counter to our values. Adhering to British values is not an option or a choice, it is a duty for all those who live in these islands. So we will stand up for our values, we will, in the end, defeat this extremism and we will secure our way of life for generations to come. And I commend --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Commends them. And those aren't just words either. Cameron is now talking about a crackdown that commentators here are calling downright scary. Among the measures he is proposing, blocking the return of British-born jihadists now in Syria and Iraq that would essentially make them stateless. He also wants the power to strip the passports of Britains suspected of terrorism, and he also talked about restricting the movements of suspended terrorists now on British soil. We even heard the terms "exclusion zones" and "relocation powers."

So Tom Rogan is back with me today. He joins me from Washington. He's a contributor to the National Review and to London's "Daily Telegraph."

Tom, good to see you again.

TOM ROGAN, CONTRIBUTOR, NATIONAL REVIEW: Good to see you.

BALDWIN: It's true, is it not, that when talking about domestic terrorism, Cameron has more leeway than President Obama, and faces a bigger threat, more imminent threat from ISIS, correct?

ROGAN: Yes, I think on both counts that is true. In the U.K., unlike the FBI here, the U.K. has the metropolitan police and various different police services, counterterrorism divisions. But they also have a domestic intelligence service wishes we do not have the United States. So there are greater powers for the government to do more. At the same time there is a greater threat. There are hundreds of British citizens, we don't know exactly how many, but at least over 500 fighting alongside ISIS in Syria and Iraq. And the concern on the British government's part is that when they try and come back to the U.K., they'll do so with the intention to commit terrorist atrocities there.

BALDWIN: With Cameron still in mind and you're there in Washington, so this is how I can ask you this, you know, how sensitive is the White House to, you know, the criticism that the president hasn't been decisive enough, not forceful, tough enough, in terms of taking on ISIS?

ROGAN: I think the president is - I think he's aware of the criticism that's been abounding from both left and right. But at the same time, I think he has always been quite committed with his national security team to doing what he wants to do. He doesn't like the timelines that others are putting out there. But my concern - I think a lot of concerns flow from the fact that actually, if you have a British passport or an EU passport, it makes traveling to the United States a lot easier, and that there are also as many as 200 Americans in Syria or Iraq, as well. So the concern is that because of the ease of air travel, and passport agreements or national agreements between the United States and allies in Europe, it makes the threat much more -- can move easily -- more easily across borders.

BALDWIN: You've covered extremism, terrorist groups for a number of years. I'm just curious if you've ever heard of anything like this, these sorts of passport restrictions that David Cameron mentioned today.

ROGAN: No. I mean the -- it's been mentioned before. There have been things called control orders in the U.K. where individuals suspected of terrorism are -- or terrorist planning have been controlled in terms of their movements. They've had locators placed on their ankles. But at the same time, with the passports, what we're seeing today from Cameron is, again, it's pretty unprecedented and it reflects the concern on the part of MI-5, the domestic intelligence service, that they don't have the means to pursue and control and monitor those who would come back. It's about taking proactive steps.

BALDWIN: Tom Rogan, thank you so much, from Washington today.

ROGAN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Speaking of the president, we know he is out and about on this Labor Day, planning to speak in Wisconsin near the top of the hour. So we'll be watching and waiting for that. And here he was moments ago. He has land in Milwaukee. He is attending the annual Labor Fest this afternoon, expected to talk economic issues. So, of course, when the president begins to speak, we'll take you there live and listen in.

Now, one of the Americans held captive for years now in North Korea, Kenneth Bae, accused of being part of a Christian plot to overthrow the North Korean government, he spoke to CNN today, sharing his plea to his family, to his government. So what is his family saying about this latest video? We'll share their thoughts, next.

And this video, I mean it looks like some sort of party out of control. This is a U.S. embassy. Who are these people? How did they access this embassy pool, this embassy compound area? We'll explore that, next.

You're watching CNN.

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