Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Interview With Former New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson; Americans Held in Korea Ask for Help

Aired September 01, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we continue on, hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Happy Labor Day.

We want to begin here with these three Americans held in North Korea. Each gets just five minutes to speak to the world. All leave behind one overriding message: America, please help us come home.

In a couple minutes, CNN's Will Ripley in Pyongyang explains exactly how and why he and his CNN crew got this unprecedented access in what is really considered to be the most secretive nation in the world.

But, first, you have to hear the interviews themselves. Hear from Jeffrey Fowle on the left. He allegedly tried to leave a Bible in his hotel room. Kenneth Bae in the middle there convicted and sentenced to hard labor for -- quote, unquote -- "serious crimes." And the youngest of the three here, Matthew Miller, who says he sought asylum in the country.

Here they were.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFREY FOWLE, AMERICAN HELD CAPTIVE IN NORTH KOREA: I have no complaints. The food has been good. I have got a daily walk with the guides. Even medical care has been furnished a couple of times. And quarters good. I got a hotel suite type of room.

So, I have no complaint about -- the treatment has been very good so far. I hope and pray that it continues whether I'm here two more days or two more decades, whatever the case is.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And your message to your family?

FOWLE: The message is, I will come home as soon as I can. My family is the biggest thing on my mind right now. I have got a wife and three elementary age school kids that depend on me for support. And my mother-in-law is staying with us, too. So, there's six of us in our household.

If this goes beyond the end of September, then I'm in grave danger of losing my job. That's when my vacation benefits run out. And I will be out of job, out of income. I'm good for the time being, but I need to let people know that I'm getting desperate. I'm getting desperate.

RIPLEY: Did you tear up your visa and seek asylum? Is that report accurate?

In the previous interview, that is what I said, so I'm not here to discuss...

RIPLEY: Tell me about your conditions here, how you're being treated.

MATTHEW MILLER, AMERICAN HELD CAPTIVE IN NORTH KOREA: I'm with good health. And I have received medical checks, and provided with humanitarian treatment.

RIPLEY: And what is your message to your family?

MILLER: First, I will just say my message to my governments.

MILLER: I have been requesting help for a long time. And there's been no movements from my governments. The American government is known for having a strong policy of protecting its citizens. Yet, for my case, there is still no movement. I have also written a letter to my presidents, with no reply.

RIPLEY: While you're in North Korea?

MILLER: Yes, about one month ago. So for this reason, I am disappointed in my governments.

RIPLEY: What's your message to your family?

MILLER: I have had the opportunity to phone call them, so I have already spoken to them.

KENNETH BAE, AMERICAN HELD CAPTIVE IN NORTH KOREA: And I have been going back and forth from hospital to the labor camp for the last year-and-a-half.

And right now, I'm serving at the labor camp right now. I have been asking the American government to act upon getting me released here. And I do believe that a special envoy needs to come in order to resolve the situation that I am in right now.

So I do ask the U.S. government to send an envoy as soon as possible. I am the American who has been here the longest since the Korean War. And I do believe that, the sooner that this gets resolved, it would be better for -- not only for myself, for the rest of the other Americans who may come -- actually, I'm the only prisoner in the -- in the camp. I have been the only prisoner in the camp for the last year-and-a- half.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: So there you have it. At least, that's what our cameras were allowed to capture, these snippets from precisely timed five- minute interval interviews.

Now to the back story. CNN's Will Ripley and his crew have been in North Korea for five days, covering the topics, let's just say, that North Korea wants the world to see. But then, as he and his crew were out having lunch, they got a phone call that changed everything.

Here's Will's version of events live from Pyongyang.

RIPLEY: Yes, we were pulled away from lunch into the hallway and told that something had come up and that we had an urgent change of plans. We were supposed to go to temple in the afternoon, but instead we were told to take our gear, get on a van. We had been taking a tour bus. We took a different van, and then took a different road, a two-hour drive back to Pyongyang.

We thought we were going to possibly speak with a government official. We put in a request at the beginning of our trip to talk to not only a government official, but also the three detained Americans. But we were told that to speak with the Americans was pretty much impossible. So that really wasn't even on our radar.

As we approached this hotel, we didn't know really where we were. It was a route that was unfamiliar to us. And as we're standing at the front door getting ready to walk in, some more officials came out. They briefed us and said there had been another change of plans. And the North Korean government decided to grant us access to these three detained Americans, as long as we followed the guidelines, five minutes, and we could only tackle certain topics.

And if we veered away from those topics or went over the time, we were told the government would be very disappointed in us. And there could be consequences.

BALDWIN: OK. So can you just walk me through, Will, some of the parameters? What were the questions they were very specific with that you could and couldn't ask? And who else was in the room? What did we not see that only you and your crew saw?

RIPLEY: The topics we were allowed to discuss, first of all, the charges they were facing in North Korea, the conditions in which they were being held, and the message that they wanted to send to their families, and perhaps more importantly for the North Korean government here in Pyongyang, the message that they wanted to send to the American government.

They were each held in separate rooms, and we were followed by a group of North Korean officials. We were videotaped. There was an audio recording. Somebody was photographing us as well. And then there were people that were watching and monitoring us. And also there was someone holding a timer and giving us time cues.

So in some of the interviews, I had to move things along a bit, because we were explicitly told that we could not have more than five minutes. And I wanted to make sure that these three men had the opportunity to say what they needed to say within the parameters that we had agreed to.

BALDWIN: It's incredible. It's incredible. And each of these three men, they all admitted, you know, using the word forgiveness specifically. Let's take a listen to a little bit more of your interviews.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FOWLE: As a cohort, acted in violation of the tourist purpose as well. And I have admitted my guilt to the government and have signed a statement to that effect and I have also put in a request for forgiveness to the people and the government of the DPRK.

MILLER: I will say that I prepared to violate the law of the DPRK before coming here. And I deliberately committed my crime. I have already admitted my guilt and apologized to the governments of the DPRK. And I have been asking for forgiveness.

BAE: I did have some assumptions, but I did not quite agree with the charges until I got here. So -- and after being on trial for, you know, that period of time did I realize that what I did in a sense offended and then has violated their law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Will, going back to just the first sound bite we played with Jeffrey Fowle, it almost appeared he was glancing down. I don't know if it was something he had written or someone else had written for him. What was he reading off of?

RIPLEY: I believe that they were his notes to try to organize his thoughts. He had a lot that he wanted to get in. He was very concerned about his family, his children. He was arrested on his daughter's birthday. His kids are in elementary school. His wife is a part-time hairstylist.

And so I think he wrote himself some bullet points, knowing that we have limited time and there were a lot of things that he wanted to say. I don't know if they were coached beforehand, if there was a discussion with them like there was with us. It wouldn't surprise me if there was.

Look, they signed written confessions. They have asked for the forgiveness of the North Korean government. But the fact is, they have now pleaded guilty to a crime here in this country,just like Kenneth Bae did. Kenneth Bae was found guilty. He's now serving 15 years working at a labor camp. And these men are staying in hotels.

The other two Americans are in hotels right now. They're due to go on trial within the month. And they know that their conditions could drastically change if they do go on trial and are found guilty and then would be immediately sentenced after that. They could also end up in a labor camp. That's why you hear them say words like a desperate situation. We need help now. Time is running out.

BALDWIN: There are much bigger questions that we're going to talk to some experts about, about the situation, about really what this was all about, perhaps for these Americans, for North Korea.

But in these 60 seconds I have you remaining live from Pyongyang in this satellite window, is there anything else you saw, anything that struck you about the interview that you have yet to share on CNN?

RIPLEY: You know, what struck me was that, for one, they looked good to me. I know Kenneth Bae has had some health problems recently. But they were well-dressed.

They seemed to be in relatively good spirits. And I would imagine they're staying in a hotel similar to the one that we have been staying here all this week. And the impression that I have had, as a first time-visitor here to the DPRK, has been positive in my interactions with the people of this country.

So I get the impression that the people that they're dealing with on a daily basis are respectful and kind to them, even in the midst of these very serious criminal charges and potentially years of incarceration that they're facing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: That was Will Ripley talking to me last hour about his experience there in Pyongyang.

Coming up, speaking of some experts we will delve into this with, we will talk to someone who is quite familiar with North Korean negotiations. Here he is, former ambassador and former New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson. He will join me live after the break, his read on all these developments today and ahead.

British Prime Minister David Cameron making another bold statement today to combat the terror group ISIS. Here's what he wants, to seize passports of suspected terrorists and that is just the beginning. How is the White House responding to these bold moves? We will find out coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Of the three American men held in North Korea, Kenneth Bae has been there the longest at two years and he is the only one to be officially convicted of a crime. It is believed the North Koreans thought Bae was evangelizing as he worked in the country as a tour operator.

So back in January of last year, former U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. and former Governor of New Mexico Bill Richardson hopped a plane, traveled all the way to North Korea as a private citizen to try to help get Kenneth Bae released. Bae had not been convicted of -- quote, unquote -- "serious crimes" at that point in time. So Richardson spoke with CNN in the days after his return.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL RICHARDSON (D), FORMER NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR: Kenneth Bae is way up in the northern part of the country. It was not accessible to us. But we made the point very strongly that he should be treated properly. We were assured that the judicial proceedings on his case would happen

soon. That's sometimes a good sign, because it means it may be wrapping up. And hopefully he will be released. But, you know, nobody had been -- we do have a Swedish representative there -- we don't have representatives in North Korea -- had been advocating for him. This case got a lot of visibility there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And now we have Bill Richardson on the phone.

Mr. Ambassador, can you hear me? Welcome.

RICHARDSON: Thank you, Brooke. Nice to be with you.

BALDWIN: Wonderful.

Let me just begin, we will get to -- you know the diplomatic dance here. I'm going to get to that in a minute. But, first, just in terms of Will's interviews with these three Americans, down to the stopwatches, the time cues from the North Koreans in the room, the parameters on the interviews, does that all sound about right to you?

RICHARDSON: Yes, it sounds just like what they -- the way they operate. They want to control everything. They want to control the message, the logistics, the structure.

But the positive point is,they were sending a message to the United States that they want to use the three Americans as bargaining chips. They want something in return. They want a deal. That's the good news. I mean, they're also very anxious to get back on the world stage. Your reporter was able to give them that.

They sometimes feel isolated when everybody is talking about ISIS and everybody is talking about the Middle East and Russia. So this is typical for them, yes.

BALDWIN: OK. So you hit on two points, maybe do a deal and putting them on the world stage. Let me ask you about the deal part. If they would be willing to do a deal, what do you think they would be willing to give as part of a deal?

RICHARDSON: Well, the deal would be something like this, Brooke. And I'm not privy to State Department...

BALDWIN: Of course.

RICHARDSON: ... negotiations and positions.

But the deal would be this. The North Koreans want to talk to the U.S. again or the six-party countries. We have all refused to do that until they take some positive steps on nuclear proliferation, in other words, they halt their declarations, their nuclear bombings, they behave more responsibly.

The North Koreans have said, OK, first, let's talk and then we will do that. And then the U.S. says, well, no. You release our American prisoners, and then maybe we talk. So it's a little bit of a dance, which hopefully the North Koreans sending this message that they're ready to talk, you know, the U.S. government will find some nuanced way to deal with this.

But what is very clear is, the North Koreans don't want a special envoy, somebody outside the government. If you hear Kenneth Bae, they want a U.S. government representative that might lead to talks with the North Koreans, which is what they want. They want to sit down face-to-face with us, and we say, no, we're not going to do that until you take steps on nuclear proliferation.

BALDWIN: So thus maybe part of the optimism and knowing that there could be some sort of deal, though, at the same time when they see the value, and they realize the value in some of these Americans, you know, talking to Gordon Chang, who wrote a book on all of this, last hour, saying there would be then potentially of course another Kenneth Bae when the North Koreans realize this.

Here's the other point. You mentioned how now this is all out on the world stage, which perhaps is precisely what Kim Jong-un wants. But might this be more about something specific, about maybe improving relations with Japan or Russia because of weakened relations with, say, China?

RICHARDSON: Well, yes. I think the whole region, Brooke -- you know, the six-party countries that are involved with North Korea, it's Russia, China, South Korea, Japan and the United States. And so what the North Koreans are saying, OK, you know all these issues that are bringing tension to the region can be resolved if you sit down and talk to Us.

The six-party countries are saying to North Korea, we're not going to do that until you behave responsibly and stop having nuclear detonations. And North Korea is -- you know, with a new leader, we don't know much about him. I used to negotiate with the old regime, his father's regime.

BALDWIN: Right.

RICHARDSON: You knew more or less what they wanted. But with this new guy, he's so unpredictable. You don't know where the levers of power are.

But it is a good sign they structured this interview with your reporter to send these very clear messages. So I think there is a little light at the end of the tunnel.

BALDWIN: Just quickly, though, with the new guy, if you are part of some American group going over potentially to try to secure the release, would it be guaranteed that the new guy, that Kim Jong-un would be sitting at a table doing the negotiating, or you would just have to take the risk going over?

RICHARDSON: No, the leader would not be part of the negotiation.

BALDWIN: Got it.

RICHARDSON: But he would direct everything that is happening because it's the United States.

But I think the North Koreans, they don't want somebody like me or President Clinton. They want some official from the U.S. government that can say, OK, now let's talk about nuclear proliferation. Now let's talk about ending sanctions.

BALDWIN: Got it.

They're not -- I think in the past, they wanted celebrity, they wanted Clinton, Jimmy Carter, and they got that. But now they want to advance negotiations. But they have got to start behaving responsibly. They can't just detonate nuclear weapons and shoot missiles off like they have. And that's what the international community and the U.S. is saying to them.

BALDWIN: Bill Richardson, thank you so much for getting on the phone with me, former ambassador, former New Mexico governor. I really appreciate that.

We will come back to this huge story here of this unprecedented interview we had in Pyongyang.

But coming up here on CNN , British Prime Minister David Cameron announcing today he wants to seize passports of suspected terrorists. How does his response -- how this response to the threat of ISIS compare to President Obama's? That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You might have heard some talk today, I know we certainly have, about British Prime Minister David Cameron supposedly sounding a whole lot tougher than President Barack Obama does on the topic of ISIS.

Do keep in mind, though, that black-clad terrorist who beheaded James Foley, he is with ISIS. He spoke in a British accent, which highlights the fact that hundreds of British passport holders now fighting with ISIS could bring their war from the Middle East back home to Britain. And, today, hearing again from David Cameron, sounding really tough. I want you to take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Mr. Speaker, we are proud to be an open, free and tolerant nation. But that tolerance must never be confused with a passive acceptance of cultures living separate lives or people behaving in ways that run completely counter to our values.

Adhering to British values is not an option or a choice. It is a duty for all those who live in these islands. So we will stand up for our values. We will in the end defeat this extremism. And we will secure our way of life for generations to come. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And these aren't just words. Cameron is now talking about a crackdown that commentators here in the United States are calling downright scary.

Among the measures he is proposing, blocking the return of British- born jihadists now in Syria and Iraq. That essentially would make them stateless. The prime minister also wants the power to strip the passports of Britons suspended of terrorism.

Cameron also talked of restricting the movements of suspected terrorists now on British soil. We even heard terms like exclusion zones and relocation powers.

So, let's go to Jim Acosta. He's our senior White House correspondent.

And, Jim, if we're to -- as people are doing, contrasting President Obama against David Cameron, let's just first remember Bill of Rights, which was penned by people who felt the British -- certainly felt the British rule, didn't much like it. Bottom line, Britain can could things the U.S. cannot do in terms of police powers.

That said, how sensitive is the White House to criticism that the president has not been decisive enough, forceful enough, you throw in the adjective, in terms of taking on ISIS?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think they're somewhat sensitive to it.

You did see one of the president's senior advisers over the weekend quoted as saying that one of the reasons why the president is taking his time to analyze the threat posed by ISIS in Syria is that he doesn't work on a cable news timetable.

So I think that is an indication there is some sensitivity inside the White House to all of this. As for the contrast, comparison with David Cameron, the threat is similar, but a little bit apples and oranges in terms of ISIS and having access to the homeland. Over in Great Britain, as you mentioned, they think they have wonderful roughly 500 jihadis with British citizenship who are fighting along ISIS.

U.S. intelligence, they have identified roughly a dozen here in the United States. But the U.S. is looking at restricting people's passports, and that sort of thing, looking at passports as a potential area of -- really of access for these jihadists to move back and forth. So, it's something they want to tighten up.

At the same time, we should point out that the president did send a new War Powers letter over to the Congress today, notifying members of Congress of expanded airstrikes in the Amirli area of Northern Iraq. That pertains to this expansion of the U.S. mission in Iraq over the weekend. They were trying to prevent a humanitarian tragedy of ethnic Turkmen who are being persecuted by ISIS fighters up there. So the president, despite being attacked politically for being a

little too soft, actually expanded the ISIS mission over the weekend in Iraq, and the White House produced that letter stating as much. But no question about it, they're sensitive to it, but what they're saying is that the president wants to build an international coalition, wants to take his time analyzing this threat and not go rushing in.

BALDWIN: Right. And just looking ahead quickly, we know the president in Milwaukee today, heading to Europe, big NATO meeting coming up. So we will explore all of this as we watch the president traveling.

ACOSTA: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: We have domestic politics today, but a lot, yes, much more focused on later on this week, absolutely.

BALDWIN: Yes, absolutely. We will be watching. We will be talking to you throughout the week. Jim Acosta, thank you very much at the White House.

ACOSTA: Sounds good.