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Demand Grows For Action Against ISIS; Obama, Cameron Address ISIS In Op-Ed; Possible Hot Car Death Indictment Today; Holder To Announce New Ferguson Probe; Interview with Rep. Ruppersberger

Aired September 04, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Be sure to watch "LADY VALOR: THE KRISTIN BECK STORY" premiers tonight 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. This hour, President Obama and other Western leaders gather for the most important NATO summit since the fall of communism.

And 25 years later, Russia's cold war aggression is again front and center. Its siege on Ukraine is one focus this morning, but a more urgent concern appears to be ISIS, its slaughter of two Americans is driving home the group's blood thirsty hatred of the west.

And now the White House and its allies are drawing a harder line in confronting ISIS and its savagery.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: As a nation, we're united and when people harm Americans, we don't retreat, we don't forget, we take care of those who are grieving, and when that's finished, they should know, we will follow them to the gates of hell until they are brought to justice.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We will not be intimidated. Their horrific acts only unite us as a country and stiffen our resolve to take the fight against these terrorists. Those who make the mistake of harming Americans will learn that we will not forget, our reach is long, and justice will be served.

CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: It is our responsibility, the president, the vice president, mine, all of us, to do everything we can to stop this now because it won't just recede into the gray recesses of history until we stop it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: The latest barbarism from ISIS, the killing of the second American seems to have ramped up the calls for taking action against the terror group. But what action and at what cost?

Representative Dutch Ruppersberger is the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. Welcome, sir. REP. C.A. "DUTCH" RUPPERSBERGER (D), MARYLAND: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: I'm glad you're here. Is it time for this to become more of a public discussion with Congress taking the lead on the debate?

RUPPERSBERGER: Well, let me say where we are right now. I think what happened yesterday with the president and Secretary Hagel and the Vice President Biden, coming out strong and letting the Americans know, letting our allies know that America is strong, America is tough.

And we're not going to tolerate Americans having their heads cut off in public and not sit there and do nothing. What needs to be told is there has been a lot going on. Our military and intelligence all coming together. That information was not out.

I think yesterday has changed the tone and we're ready to move. Also, we can't be sheriff for the whole world and I really think this is positive that these other countries are coming in and we work together to make sure that we can take out, stamp out ISIS.

COSTELLO: When you talk about other countries coming in, you mean European countries or do you mean Middle Eastern countries? Because the United States needs Middle Eastern countries' help in this, right?

RUPPERSBERGER: Sure. Yes. Well, I -- both. I think you right now, you have the Brits and you have the Australians. You have the French, you know, Canada all coming together, working with us now. I think we're going to see and we need to see a lot more of the Middle East countries being involved.

What we want to do in Iraq as an example is that we want the Iraqis with the Kurds who, by the way, are excellent fighters. We want to give them the resources, help train them so they can take the -- have the boots on the ground and take ISIS on.

As it relates to Syria that's a different issue. The issue is do we go in, do we use military force, and that right now, we're evaluating how do that, which way to do it. The bottom line is we have to make sure that if we do go into Syria, we take out their leadership and we take them out.

We don't want to kill other people, innocent people. That's what's going on right now. It's being evaluated and that information will come to the president and the Congress should be kept advised all the way through the process.

COSTELLO: It seems like air strikes won't accomplish that. How much -- how real of a possibility is it that there will be American boots on the ground in that part of the world again?

RUPPERSBERGER: I don't see boots on the ground. But remember, the Americans have tremendous resources. Better resources than any other country in the world. We have the best intelligence resources. We can provide air power.

But as far as boots on the ground, we've been there in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't believe that the American public want us to be in a large-scale, long war again in the Middle East.

Now, we will do that. Whatever we have to do to protect Americans and to work and protect our allies. Now the problem with Syria as an example --

COSTELLO: You just said we'll do whatever we have to do, and if we don't get help from countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan or Turkey, or the Iraqi government just can't get it together, won't the United States be forced to put boots on the ground?

RUPPERSBERGER: I don't believe we will because I think what we know and the resources that we have, that we can take out ISIS. It's just not about military either. Look at Iraq as an example. It's not a completely military solution.

It's also about the people coming together, making sure and Iraq as an example that the Sunni population will not tolerate ISIS any way at all and they will stand up as a country and not as a Sunni/Shia issue.

COSTELLO: You know, I had a political debate with two pundits in the last hour and we were talking about whether the president should go to Congress and they should all talk publicly about this so the American people can understand exactly what kind of threat ISIS presents to us.

Both pundits, Democrat and Republican, said that's crazy. The president goes to Congress, Congress isn't going to listen to him. It's just going to be a food fight. And I found that sad, actually.

RUPPERSBERGER: Well, unfortunately, there is history in the last two years, but when it comes to what we do in the area of intelligence and the area of national security, I think if you look at some of the votes we've had, just in the cyber area, we've been able to come together and the president is the commander in chief. He has a great team behind him.

Whether it's intelligence, whether it's military. But the president is now using Article 2 of the constitution as the reason why he's able to do what he's doing now in Iraq. And that is to protect Americans. And that is the number one issue now is to protect Americans and our allies.

You know, we have to protect the homeland, which is clear. My concern, though, is -- and is a real concern -- are the Americans that have passports that have gone to Syria, have become radicalized and they have the ability to come back to the United States and they've been trained.

An example is the individual who went to Syria from the United States, became radicalized, he was trained as a suicide bomber, and then he came back to visit his parents, went back to Syria and blew himself up and killed other people. That is my biggest concern, is to protect the homeland and American lives. Those Americans in other parts of the world, very vulnerable.

COSTELLO: So do you think that the president should act without Congress and not involve Congress? RUPPERSBERGER: He's involving Congress every day. I am a member of the Gang of Eight, Chairman Rogers and I, Chairman Feinstein and the Senate side, and Saxby B. Chambliss, Senator Saxby Chambliss.

We get information or our staff almost every day. He is notifying and advising Congress as we move through the process. If the war is going to be a longer duration, then it should come to Congress. It should be debated. We need to move forward.

But it's not at that point yet. We're attempting to stamp out ISIS right away. It's a threat. They're threatening us. They're cutting Americans' heads off and we have to act now and aggressively.

I think again, when you have the vice president yesterday saying we're goings to chase them to the gates of hell the administration means business. I think they weren't able to get their message out to the American public as well as they should have.

Because we have people in the military, intelligence, law enforcement working 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for years, to protect us from these terrorist attacks.

COSTELLO: Congressman Dutch Ruppersberger, thank you for your insight and information. I appreciate it.

RUPPERSBERGER: Great. Thank you.

COSTELLO: You're welcome. In a joint op-ed in today's "Times of London," President Obama and the British Prime Minister David Cameron laid out not only the goals of any action against ISIS, but also issued a warning to the terrorists.

They said, quote, or they wrote, quote, "Countries like Britain and America will not be cowed by barbaric killers. We will be more forth rite in our defense of our values not the least of which because a world of greater freedom is a fundamental part of how we keep our people safe."

Cameron also spoke to CNN this morning saying ISIS must be wiped out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Destroyed, squeezed out of existence is the way that I would put it. But we should be clear what we're facing here is this Islamist extremist narrative, poisonous narrative, it isn't just in Iraq and Syria. We've also seen it in Somalia, Mali, of course in Afghanistan, when hosted by the Taliban. So this is a generational struggle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: What exactly do we know about ISIS and its influence? CNN's Tom Foreman has been looking into that. One of the big mysteries about ISIS is precisely how many fighters do they have at their disposal? TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and this question is surprisingly hard to answer, Carol. Some estimates are down around 10,000, others soar up to 80,000 men or more. This is happening because ISIS is building alliances with other groups who share their radical ideology.

So are those ally members of ISIS or just temporary partners in crime. It's hard to say -- Carol.

COSTELLO: The other question people have, how well trained are these terrorists?

FOREMAN: Well, a core of this group grew out of members of the Iraqi military under Saddam Hussein. Soldiers who were all pushed out of all public service after Saddam was toppled, but who still have valuable knowledge of military tactics, strategies and weaponry.

Other fighters with ISIS are likely less skilled, but they bring enthusiasm, commitment, dedication. They've come from around the region and, indeed, from around the world drawn by these dreams of an Islamic caliphate, an Islamic state and by ISIS sophisticated social media to appeal to them.

It is estimated about 100 American citizens are fighting in Syria right now and a dozen are believed to be with ISIS -- Carol.

COSTELLO: What about weapons? What kind of weapons do they have?

FOREMAN: You know, they have all the typical things you would expect for a terrorist group, AK-47s, improvised explosives. This is important. ISIS is believed to be exceedingly wealthy.

The group seemed to capitalize on every opportunity to make money whether selling goods they've stolen or oil and electricity from places they've captured, and with that, along with the military post, they've overrun.

They've been able to amass a formidable arsenal of armored vehicles, rockets, missiles, mortars, machine gun, even American-made tanks, making them less like terrorist groups we've traditionally known, more like a terrorist army.

COSTELLO: And you know there's some I don't know conflicting information out there about just how much of Iraq and Syria ISIS controls. Can you bring us up to date?

FOREMAN: Well, I can bring you up to date and I'll tell you this, Carol, it changes every day. Our maps currently show them holding only thin swaths of territory in Syria and Iraq. Look at the red areas there. That's what ISIS is believed to be in control of.

But look at the yellow. That's where their support zone is and if you go beyond that, to places where ISIS has influence, then it gets much bigger. You have to talk about supporters in places like Jordan and Lebanon and even in Europe and in the United States.

That's what makes it so hard to get your hands around how big ISIS, how powerful it is, and how big the threat may be -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Tom Foreman, reporting live for us this morning, thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM nearly one month after Michael Brown was killed by a police officer, the Obama administration is expected to take its toughest stance yet on the shooting. CNN justice correspondent, Pamela Brown has more. Good morning.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. That's right. The Justice Department launching another investigation in Ferguson, Missouri.

Coming up, we're going to tell you what makes this investigation different from the other two investigations taking place in Ferguson in the wake of the Michael Brown shooting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. A grand jury in suburban Atlanta could indict the man accused of killing his toddler son inside a hot car as early as this afternoon.

Justin Ross Harris has been charged with felony murder and second- degree child cruelty. The 22-month-old Cooper died after he was left inside his father's SUV back in June. CNN's Martin Savidge looks back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It all began with the anguished cry of a father in parking lot nearly three months ago.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just screamed, what have I done, loudly.

SAVIDGE: The 33-year-old Justin Ross Harris says after taking his son to breakfast the morning of June 18th, he forget to drop off 22-month- old Cooper at daycare, leaving him strapped in his car seat in an Atlanta area office parking lot in 90 plus degree heat for close to seven hours. Discovering the mistake after leaving work that afternoon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hopped out of the driver's seat, opened the back door, pulled his child out, laid him on the concrete, tried to resuscitate him.

SAVIDGE: Cooper was dead and within hours his father charged with murder and child cruelty held without bond. The public outcry against authorities was swift. An online petition demanded the charges be dropped saying they only added to a family's heartbreak over a terrible accident.

But investigators painted a different picture. In a warrant authorities said during questioning, Ross Harris, admitted to researching online child deaths inside vehicles and what temperature it needs to be for that to occur. Then what came next took the case from conversational to sensational.

DETECTIVE PHIL STODDARD, COBB COUNTY POLICE: His having up to six different conversations with different women.

SAVIDGE: In a pre-trial hearing, authorities shattered Harris' image of faithful husband and loving father, portraying him instead as a man yearning to be single involved in online relationships.

STODDARD: Evidence has shown us he has this whole second life he's living with alternate personalities and alternate personas.

SAVIDGE: To the grasp of the courtroom investigators said Harris was sexting women sending lewd messages as his son was dying trapped in that car seat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were photos being sent back and forth while the child was in the car?

STODDARD: Yes, there were photos of his exposed erect penis being sent and there were also photos of women's breasts being sent back to him.

SAVIDGE: Harris' attorney called the sexting claims irrelevant and had nothing to do with the child's death. He said his client is not guilty and instead outlined what is likely to be Harris' defense if the case goes to trial.

MADDOX KILGORE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It's not criminal negligence. It's a horrible tragedy and accident.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: All right. Like I said, a grand jury is now meeting in suburban Atlanta. They probably will have a decision whether to send this case to trial today. Of course, we'll keep you posted.

Nearly one month after unarmed teenager, Michael Brown, was shot and killed by a police officer, officials tell CNN, Attorney General Eric Holder is expected to announce a new investigation into the Ferguson, Missouri, police department as early as today.

As you well know, Brown's death sparked national outrage and triggered clashes between protesters and local law enforcement. Let's bring in CNN Justice correspondent, Pamela Brown, she is in Washington.

We are also joined by Defense attorney and former federal prosecutor, Tanya Miller. Welcome to both of you.

Pamela, I want to start with you and the Justice Department investigation. Tell us more.

BROWN: Well, Carol, officials tell us that the Justice Department will be launching a civil investigation looking at the patterns and practices of the Ferguson police department in the wake of the Michael Brown shooting. Now this will be a top to bottom look at the department's training, a review of past incidents and allegations of misconduct, to see if the department has as a whole has any practices that violate federal law or the constitution.

Now at this point, justice officials will only be looking at the Ferguson Police Department, but of course, there's always a possibility the probe could expand to other departments in St. Louis.

I want to make it clear, Carol, that this is separate from the other federal and local investigations looking into the Michael Brown shooting -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Is it unusual for the Justice Department to take this step?

BROWN: It's not unusual if you look at the history of the Justice Department and the civil investigations they've launched in other police departments. In fact, the department has launched 20 investigations into police departments just in the past five years, Carol.

That's twice as many as the -- as the five years before that. So that gives you a sense that in some ways, this is expected. This is the next expected step in the wake of what's going on in Ferguson.

COSTELLO: Interesting. So Tanya, there's another legal battle brewing if you will to release Brown's entire juvenile record. According to the "St. Louis Dispatch" Brown's juvenile record shows he was never convicted of any serious felony, but it's unclear he faced charges for lesser offenses. Should those records be released?

TANYA MILLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. At least not right now, Carol. When you're talking about getting at juvenile records, records that exist in family court and juvenile court from offenses that range from truancy to littering to loitering all the way up to and including other violent felonies those are typically protected records for juveniles.

They are not criminal cases in the traditional sense. Juveniles aren't found guilty. They are found delinquent. Those records are not released. They are private. For us to be looking into this victim's criminals past is really premature and many people think it's an effort to demonize him.

To criminalize him, to objectify him, to create this or perpetuate this image of him as a thug who potentially had it coming. There's really no basis for doing that at this time. So I think that the court had it right by just sort of generally saying look, he has no serious violent felonies and anything else that you ask for, I think, is inappropriate.

COSTELLO: Who was asking for this information? A conservative blogger, right and at least one newspaper. There were these rumors circulating that Michael Brown was involved in second-degree murder as a juvenile, but the judge said he wasn't. MILLER: Exactly. I mean, those are rumors. Again, we see this happening often times when we have young, African-American males who are the victims of crime. All of a sudden, their criminal past or allegations about their criminal past or their character becomes fair game.

For whether it's a conservative blogger or other folks in the media who are trying, I guess, in a way, to show whether they mean to or not, it certainly sends the message, that potentially this victim of a crime had it coming. I don't know that we see this traditionally happen when we have other victims of crime.

COSTELLO: I will say, Tanya, I will say, Tanya, we don't know what happened that day and I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Well, we don't know what happened because we don't know the police officer's side of the story, right? We don't know.

MILLER: Well, why don't we know his side of the story?

COSTELLO: No one has been charged with a crime as of yet.

MILLER: That's correct. What we know and what we've heard from the witnesses, several witnesses who have come forward who were there, unlike the officer who has not come forward and given his side of what happened, witnesses who come forward and say that this young kid was unarmed.

His hands were up. He was gunned down in the middle of the street. Left there -- his body left there to fester for hours afterwards. So we know that much. Now, you know, the specifics of the incident or the officer's justification, if he has one for gunning him down, we haven't heard that yet.

I think we need to hear that before we put Michael Brown under investigation. He is the victim. He lost his life that day.

COSTELLO: All right. I'll leave it there. Pamela Brown, Tanya Miller, thanks to you both.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM thousands of fast food workers across the country plan to walk out of the job today. In fact, they already have. Demanding a $15 an hour wage. I'll talk with one of the organizers of the group next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Thousands of fast food customers had a tough time grabbing their egg McMuffins this morning, good for thousands of those who work behind the counter. Fast food workers in 150 cities including New York walked off the job.

Some did use nonviolent civil disobedience to get their point across and they were promptly dragged off to jail. Although organizers say their efforts are paying off, some businessmen like Sam Zell, chairman of Equity Group Investments are sounding the alarm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAM ZELL, CHAIRMAN, EQUITY GROUP INVESTMENTS: You start talking about 13 or $15 minimum wage, and you're going to have robots that are operating McDonald's. And I think there's a lot more to the McDonald's entry-level experience than just the $8. It's a whole trainings discipline, et cetera.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: I talked with Kendall Fells, president of the Fast Food Forward. He organized the protest here in New York and Zell's comments aside, he is feeling victorious.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENDALL FELLS, PRESIDENT FAST FOOD FORWARD: This movement started in 2012 and since then, the campaign spread from one city to 150 cities in the U.S. The last strike there was activity on six continents. The president has pledged his support of the fast food workers.

Minimum wage is being raised to $15 in Seattle, they're voting on $15 in San Francisco. L.A. is going to $13. I think they have the support of Americans. Americans don't want to see fast food workers who are the lowest paid workers