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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

American Suspected to be Involved with ISIS; Man Who Escaped ISIS; ISIS Defector Speaks to CNN

Aired September 04, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Born in France, raised in Boston, schooled in computers. Is this man now doing high-tech dirty work for ISIS? Ahmed Abousamra has been on the FBI's most-wanted terrorists list since 2012, before ISIS really even existed in its current state. He allegedly went to Iraq years earlier to link up with Islamic radicals. Reportedly, he is now a suspect behind those highly produced holy repugnant videos that have made ISIS the scourge of the civilized world. CNN's Deb Feyerick joins me now. She's been working her sources on this.

What is the story behind this man?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: One of the reasons he is so interesting to intelligence analysts, and that's because what they're doing right now is they're casting a very wide net to see who, for example, may have entered the country previously, who may have some suspicious travel, any unusual connections between travelers. What makes this man so interesting is that he is a fugitive with dual citizenship, both American and Syrian passports. He was indicted in 2009. He had discussed going to a terror training camp in order to fight. He was in Iraq.

Now, at the time that he was indicted, he had a co-conspirator, a man by the name of Teric Mahana (ph). Mahana, because he was also was fluent in English, because he was an American, he also was charged with being the media wing of al Qaeda in Iraq. Now, as we know, al Qaeda in Iraq became ISIS. And so that's one of the reasons they're looking at Abousamra so closely. They believe because of the connection that his partner had with al Qaeda in Iraq as the media wing, they believe that now, because he's a fugitive, because he's missing, he may be the one who is technologically savvy enough to be getting ISIS' message out. Whether it's his message or whether he is simply that sort of, you know, tech guy who's good at tweeting and getting things out on Instagram and social media, that's also investigation.

But they're looking at him. They're looking at a lot of people. They've got to go back. In order to go forward, they've got to go back.

BANFIELD: Well, if you want to go back on this guy's record -- and ABC News has done some pretty interesting reporting on this this morning - I think this is what shocks a lot of people in our audience, that someone who has a father who's an endocrinologist at Massachusetts General Hospital, someone who went to a private catholic school, someone who attended Northeastern University as an honor roll student ends up the leader of perhaps the media wing of this repugnant group of killers.

FEYERICK: Well, it's actually not that surprising. And I hate to say it, but you have to look at who we're talking about. We're looking - we're talking about people who may have the feeling of being disenfranchised. We're talking about people who are looking for identity, who may be going and finding it in religion, people who want to fight. (INAUDIBLE)

BANFIELD: This guy sounded like he had it all. This isn't somebody who's the fringes of society. This is a prep kid.

FEYERICK: But they - but the 9/11 hijackers, all of them were -- came from privileged families. They weren't these sort of uneducated, illiterate, you know, terrorists. The kind that we see, you know, the Boko Haram. These are people who got good educations, but they're searching, they're looking for something. Why they attack America, that's unclear.

But also, keep in mind, Ashleigh, you know, this beheading, and somebody made a very good point to me this morning, and that is, the beheading - the - ISIS beheaded two journalists. They didn't go out and be - and capture fighters. They didn't go out and capture U.S. soldiers. They went after people who were there on their own who knew the risks. It would be a very, very different story if, in fact, ISIS had captured American soldiers who were fighting there and then beheaded them. That is a very different message. So the fact that we're replaying this, we're rebroadcasting this -

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE)

FEYERICK: Yes, we are reinforcing the horror and the brutality of this group. But again, there's a lot going on.

BANFIELD: Well, I'll tell you what, they may not have captured American soldiers, but they've captured plenty of Iraqi soldiers and done just unspeakable things. In fact, later on in the program, we're going to interview one of those Iraqi soldiers who was captured, lined up for execution and they missed.

FEYERICK: That's who they are.

BANFIELD: It's just an unbelievable story.

FEYERICK: Yes.

BANFIELD: Deb, thank you and continue to let us know if you dig up any other details on this now indicted American.

FEYERICK: Of course. Yes.

BANFIELD: Just remarkable. Thank you, Deb.

A man that federal authorities say is an ISIS sympathizers was arraigned this morning in a federal court in Greensboro, North Carolina. This is someone different. This is Donald Ray Morgan. He pleaded not guilty to one count of possessing illegal weapons. Morgan was arrested on August 2nd when he arrived at New York's Kennedy Airport. He'd been coming in from Frankfurt, Germany, according to the court documents. He's got a jury trial that's scheduled to begin October 14th in Winston-Salem. But that's a weapons charge. So far we're not seeing any terrorist charges, although he is suspected, again, of being an ISIS sympathizer.

And a day after ISIS -- which again, we should remind you, calls itself Islamic State, a lot of people find that pretty offensive, though -- a day after they publicized the horrific killing of America newsman Steven Sotloff, Steven Sotloff's family put out a message of its own. And through a spokesperson the Sotloff's bluntly asked the terror group's leader, and I quote, "where is your mercy?" Listen now as the spokesperson in fluent Arabic tells ISIS it's committed a sin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARAK BARTI, SOTLOFF FAMILY SPOKESMAN (through translator): You talk about Islam and the noble Koran, but I know a verse from the Koran, "fight in the cause of God, those who fight you, and do not transgress. God loves not the aggressors." I'm here debating you with kindness. I do not have a sword in my hand, and I'm ready for your answer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The ISIS threat reaches well beyond Iraq and Syria. Hundreds of Brits are suspected of joining forces with the Islamic extremists, including the terrorist who was seen on video beheading Americans James Foley and Steven Sotloff. This morning, British Prime Minister David Cameron told CNN's Nic Robertson that ISIS and Islamic extremism must be eliminated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Destroyed, squeezed out of existence is the way that I would put it. But we should be clear what we're facing here, is this Islamist extremist narrative, poisonous narrative. It isn't just in Iraq and Syria. We've also seen it in Somalia, in Mali, of course in Afghanistan when hosted by the Taliban. So this is a generational struggle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Cameron was speaking at the outset of a NATO summit that was originally supposed to be all about Afghanistan, but has certainly and largely been commandeered by ISIS and Ukraine. And on that front, a cease-fire is now expected to take effect tomorrow pending final agreement on a peace plan at a meeting in Belarus. Ukraine is not a member of NATO, but its president is in Wales today meeting with Cameron, President Obama as well, and several other of the NATO leaders.

As many as 1,700 Iraqi soldiers were executed summarily by ISIS back in June. And coming up, the impossible story of one soldier who escaped that slaughter and lived to tell about it. His incredible tale in his own words coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We have all heard the monstrous stories of ISIS raping and killing women and killing children, slaughtering Iraqis, beheading journalists and massacring Iraqi soldiers. "The New York Times" has interviewed an Iraqi soldier who absolutely and remarkably survived one of those awful ISIS massacres that you see quite often on your screen. Somehow Ali Hussein Kadhim was able to hide among the dead bodies of his fallen comrades. He waited until nightfall and then escaped the clutches of ISIS. His story gives credence to the claims from ISIS that they executed up to 1,700 Iraqi soldiers in just one day.

This video shot by ISIS in June shows the Iraqi troops that were being rounded up for this mass execution. And what we're about to show you is certainly not appropriate for children. When the video is over, we'll discuss it, and we will not show any more of these graphic images. Kadhim tells his story in Arabic. The translation from "The New York Times" will be at the bottom of your screen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALI HUSSEIN KADHIM (through translator): This is me. I'm 100 percent sure. Not only 100 percent, a million percent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In June, ISIS militants massacred hundreds of army recruits. This is the improbable story of Ali Kadhim, the only known survivor.

KADHIM: I'm married and I have two children.

We don't have anything. No work (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ali volunteered for the military on June 1st. He was stationed at Camp Speicher (ph), a former U.S. military base near Tikrit and two hours north of Baghdad. Just 12 days later, he was lying on a field surrounded by corpses, awaiting a bullet to the head. "The New York Times" verified Ali's story using witness accounts, a Human Rights Watch report and videos of the massacre published online by ISIS.

KADHIM: That's my (INAUDIBLE), but I'm (INAUDIBLE).

Each (INAUDIBLE) shirt of the person before him.

They make (INAUDIBLE) all like (INAUDIBLE) death.

As I turned, I saw the first (INAUDIBLE) in the head. The blood shot up. I thought (INAUDIBLE) the (INAUDIBLE). There was (INAUDIBLE). But then I remembered (INAUDIBLE). It was a (INAUDIBLE). I kept thinking about my (INAUDIBLE). Who will call her (ph) then? (INAUDIBLE).

He shot the first, the second, the third. Then he came to me. I swear he fired. But I don't know where the bullet went. The guy on one side (ph) fell. The guy on the other side fell (ph). There was (INAUDIBLE). I fell too.

(INAUDIBLE) is like this mouth open, bloodied (INAUDIBLE).

I still remember his shoe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Still remembers his shoes. Joining me now about this incredible survivor tale is "New York Times" digital journalist Adam Ellick. Ellick produced and wrote the story of Kadhim's harrowing escape.

First of all, can I commend you on some of the most incredible reporting that I have seen in this story so far. This personal account just brings to light how real so many of these constant images are. Can you take me from that moment where Kadhim says that he was lying among the dead bodies for hours and hours and opened his eyes? What happened next?

ADAM ELLICK, SENIOR VIDEO JOURNALIST, "NEW YORK TIMES": Well, his first and ultimate challenge was escaping. And ISIS was still in the region. So he was essentially waiting for sundown and for silence. And once those two things happened, which took about four hours, he was able to get up and start making his way toward the river.

BANFIELD: His hands are still tied, right?

ELLICK: His hands are still tied and he's, you know, obviously devastating, emotional shock and whatnot and -

BANFIELD: And he's in ISIS territory.

ELLICK: Yes. So ISIS is still surrounding -- they're everywhere. His goal is to get to the river to cross the river, hoping that on the other side it's more safe.

BANFIELD: Yes. And as you tell in your account, he came upon a man who was gravely injured at the riverbed named Abbas (ph)?

ELLICK: That's correct.

BANFIELD: And as I understand it, Abbas was a victim of another one of these scenes that we see so regularly.

It's a graphically horrifying scene at the riverbed where ISIS fighters are executing with a handgun, one by gun, gun to the head and shoving these people into the river.

And this is -- Abbas was one of these who survived that horrible execution?

ELLICK: That's right. Abbas was a driver at the military base where ISIS was. And Abbas was one of the lucky or unlucky ones who didn't die right away when he was shot in the back of the head.

So he made his way from the river onto the riverbank. And that's where Ali met him.

BANFIELD: Ali and Abbas were there on the riverbank three days just trying to survive.

ELLICK: You got it. And Abbas was so sick that he couldn't eat at all. Ali was surviving on insects and some grass along the riverbank.

After three days, Abbas basically said, listen, I'm not going to make it. You might make it. So why don't you try to cross the river. And if you survive, tell my story to the world.

BANFIELD: And he did. He made it across the river. But on the other side was still Sunni territory, still the enemy.

ELLICK: Yes, it's one of those stories that every time you feel relaxed, something else bad happens to Ali.

And first the river had a very strong current, so Ali struggled to make it to the other side. He tried up to four times until he finally made it.

BANFIELD: And Abbas had taken his ligatures off.

ELLICK: Yes, with a shell. Is had a tower on the bridge. It wasn't just the current but it was the fact that he could be snatched up at any time.

BANFIELD: And any of the locals at any point, even if they weren't fighters, they could have been sympathizers and turned him over, but he just got lucky?

ELLICK: He got lucky and I think his desperation worked in his favor because he hadn't eaten. He basically had lost his clothes. And he was so desperate that he had no choice but to knock on the doors of some of the local villagers.

BANFIELD: Pray to god.

ELLICK: It was a Sunni neighborhood which is the same sect as is. So he had no idea if they were going to be -- if they were going to turn on him or not.

BANFIELD: So ultimately, he made it. But by the grace of those friendlies that he came in contact with, those Sunnis who did give him tomatoes and some, you know, meager food rations, he made it. And he's home with his children.

ELLICK: Yes. It took 23 days from the day of the massacre until he was reunited with his family.

I think the best way that I would use to describe it is sort of a combination of a "Schindler's List"-style escape and an underground railroad of local Samaritans sort of putting humanity before everything else and finding a way, I think, four cities over three weeks to get him back to his two children, including his 2-year-old daughter. BANFIELD: And the story, we should tell our viewers, you've done some

remarkable corroboration through numerous groups, witnesses, even Abbas's father was able to verify the account of this story.

I am just putting this up on the green because I want to drive our viewers to this incredible reporting. It really is trick. Newyorktimes.com. Adam, you and your team have done a wonderful job, and I'm glad you've personalized this terrible tale. It just seems every day something gets worse.

ELLICK: Yes. I think the beauty of this story is that it humanizes a conflict that feels --

BANFIELD: It does.

ELLICK: -- very abstract at times. We see a lot of grainy cell phone videos. This is one man's story, and it couldn't be more real.

BANFIELD: Well, thank you, again. And excellent work. Congratulations to you and your colleagues.

ELLICK: Thanks.

BANFIELD: Before they started their horrific and violent campaign to set up an Islamic state, many ISIS members were just -- if you can believe it -- ordinary people, so first question is, what would inspire an ordinary person to become this extraordinary?

CNN's Arwa Damon spoke with a Syrian man who joined ISIS, but maybe more importantly, the story is why he defected, why he left, why he rejected this.

He's going to reveal how they snag their recruits and what happens once they take over a town.

That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I have to tell you that you're about to see some pretty horrible images in this next report. It is human brutality and cruelty in the name of religion and power and so far no one has been able to stop it.

We are, of course, talking about ISIS, the Islamic fighters who are stomping all throughout the Middle East. They're considered by the Obama administration beyond a terrorist group. World leaders are still trying to figure out how to shut ISIS down, wipe it off the face of the earth or degrade and destroy, words they're using.

CNN actually found a man who broke away, broke away from this group, defected, effectively. And he told us how ISIS actually works. And he also told us how dangerous they really are.

Please watch this from Arwa Damon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There is no sign here of the progressive city that Raqqa once was, now the seat of power for ISIS -- gruesome crucifixions, public executions for anyone who insults god, lashings for women who are not fully covered in the (inaudible), beatings and imprisonment for keeping a store open during prayer time or selling cigarettes.

Their inhumane brutality is felt daily, not just here but across swaths of Syria and Iraq, now the so-called Islamic State. There is a commission for the prohibition of vice, tasked with punishing anyone who violates regulations.

This man, a Syrian in his 20s, defected from ISIS less than two weeks ago and still agrees with the ideology of ISIS.

UNIDENTFIED MALE (via translator): The main and principal goal of the Islamic state that they tell their new members is to establish an Islamic state that will encompass the Arab world. And after that, we go to the other countries.

DAMON: Raqqa is ISIS central command, easily taken over by the organization after other fighting groups had already kicked the Syrian army out of military bases in the area.

ISIS has now opened a logistic supply line that extends into Iraq.

UNIDENTFIED MALE (via translator): Iraqi is close to the border of Iraq. We saw that weapons were going back and forth from Iraq --

DAMON: Already drawing foreign fighters with estimates of several thousand from Western countries.

UNIDENTFIED MALE: We are coming, and we will destroy you.

DAMON: -- heightening concerns across Europe with the U.K. recently raising its threat level from substantial to severe.

The defector claims these foreigners could carry out attacks when they go home, but the security measures in those countries make it difficult for now.

UNIDENTFIED MALE (via translator): Since Western fighters joined ISIS, they consider their home country as infidels. If they have a chance, they will carry out attacks because they think of it as an infidel country and it should be fought.

DAMON: It is also perhaps why a Westerner was chosen to front the horrific beheading of journalist James Foley.

UNIDENTFIED MALE (via translator): It is possible that the goal was to project the image that a European or a Western person executed an American so that they can showcase their Western members and appeal to others outside Syria and make them feel that they belong to the same cause and that they, too, can do anything in support of ISIS in their respective countries. DAMON: And there is also the internal indoctrination of innocent

minds, establishing more and more Islamic schools and altering education.

UNIDENTFIED MALE (via translator): Philosophy is prohibited. They canceled it as a kind of blasphemy.

Many subjects have been canceled like music and even sometimes sports. All of them have been canceled from the school curriculum.

DAMON: There is fear among the people, he admits, among those who don't subscribe to ISIS's ideology, but leaving is not a choice ISIS offers them.

Arwa Damon, CNN, Beirut.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: We've got breaking news in the case of that Georgia toddler who died after being left in a hot car.

Today a grand jury hearing the case handed down an indictment against Cooper Harris's father who left him in that car, and the charges could bring the death penalty.

That LEGAL VIEW coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)