Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Ceasefire Holding Despite Sporadic Gunfire; 2 Historic Upsets at the U.S. Open; The Dark Web

Aired September 06, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Poppy Harlow, joining you from New York.

Coming up, we'll take you inside the darkest corners of the Internet.

But, first, a look at today's top stories.

We begin in Ukraine where a cease-fire is still technically in place, but there are signs that it can fall apart very soon. Sporadic artillery barrages and machine gun fire could be heard late today in the outskirts of the strategic port city of Mariupol.

That's where our Diana Magnay is now. She joins us by phone.

Diana, describe the scene where you are.

DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Hi, Poppy.

Well, for the last two hours or so, we have heard, as you say, sporadic barrages of artillery fire, and what sounds like multiple rocket launch systems -- the last one just about five minutes ago. And it would appear as though there is a very heavy battle going on to the east of the city and this is, of course, where over the last two days, the rebels have tried to gain control of the coastal strip between the Russian border and Mariupol.

And things did become quiet at 6:00 p.m. on Friday, local time, when the cease-fire was announced. But just a couple of hours ago or more, the situation has changed very dramatically. It's not sustained. It's not constant shelling, but it happens every hour, I suppose. In the last hour, I heard it twice and the hour before that. It was quite a lot more regular.

On the outskirts of the city, a gas station is on fire. We tried to drive out in that direction. As we were nearing the outskirts of the city, we heard fire and a lot of machine guns fire. A car with civilians in it drove close to us very badly wounded people inside.

Now, we couldn't tell who has been doing the firing or why it should have hit civilians coming into the city. But it would appear to us as though lots of people, certainly midnight local time were driving into the city trying to see the shelling on the outskirts. So, even though it appears in conversation, Poppy, between the Russian

and Ukrainian president, just a few hours ago, they agreed despite a bitter shelling in Donetsk and Luhansk, they said the cease-fire would largely in place. I would argue now that it really isn't anymore -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Diana Magnay, appreciate the reporting.

And, of course, we will update our viewers as soon as we get official response from the Kremlin or from the Ukrainian government. We have heard from neither yet as this has been unfolding and continues to unfold there in Ukraine. Diana Magnay, thank you for that.

Meantime, two of the biggest upsets in tennis history happened here in New York just hours ago at the U.S. Open. The number one and the number two ranked players are gone, crushed by underdogs. Tennis legend Roger Federer lost in straight sets to Croatia's Marin Cilic. Federer holds the all time record of 17 grand slam titles.

Hours earlier today, number one seed Novak Djokovic went down in defeat. He lost in four sets to Japan's Kei Nishikori, the number 10 seed. Neither of today's winners has been to a grand slam final before. Nishikori will be the first Japanese man to reach any grand slam final. Good luck to both of them. We'll be watching.

Now this, a closer look at something that is affecting all of us whether you want to admit it or not -- everyone online who uses a credit or debit card.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW (voice-over): It's the criminal underbelly of the Internet. It's called the dark web. Hackers meet to buy and sell information, your information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a grotesque invasion of privacy.

HARLOW: Debit and credit card data, Social Security numbers, full and complete access to your most personal information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This claims to be Michelle Obama's credit report. Does this look legitimate to you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It clearly looks legit.

HARLOW: Nude photos of celebrities and sex tapes, stolen and sold to the highest bidder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Think of them as baseball cards. You've got one and I've got one. And they are traded in these groups.

HARLOW: The FBI is investigating but the encrypted matrix of the dark web allows criminal users to remain totally anonymous.

So, how do we keep our private information off of the Internet's black market. And by using the Cloud, shopping online and posting to social media, are we part of the problem?

All that and more as we explore inside the dark web.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Now, before you say, all right, that doesn't affect me or I didn't shop there or I'm very, very careful -- listen to this -- roughly half of all American adults have been hacked and that's just this year.

Here is the break down. If Home Depot confirms the breach, they will be the latest in the string of recent attacks against major companies like Target, PF Chang, UPS, Michaels, Neiman Marcus, Sally Beauty and many, many more. If your information is stolen it could sell for as little as a dollar or a lot more.

Our Laurie Segall shows us how.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When credit cards are hacked they go up on the market. Home Depot is investigating a security breach. It's the latest major retailer targeted by hackers.

And as more companies are breached, there is more stolen credit card info floating around the web.

Let's break down what happens to your data on the black market.

A privacy group called the Digital Citizens Alliance says they found a hacker boasting about having credit card numbers. They pose as a potential customer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm calling about the credit cards.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Now, did you want CVVs, fulls? Or accounts?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think fulls. But I'm trying to figure out how many I can buy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you need the data of birth, social, all that as well?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. I'm trying to get some cash, so I'm looking to buy some stuff so I can sell it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so you're looking to buy stuff online, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What sites are you planning to target?

SEGALL: But before your card number is bought and sold over the phone, you'll find them for sale on what's known as the dark web -- think of it as the underbelly of the Internet. It's a network you're only able to access through Tor, an encrypted browser that makes it difficult to identify users.

The average black market price for all the data on your credit card is a little over $100. If it's taken from an account on eBay or PayPal, it's cheaper. You're looking at a price tag of about $27, the cost to take control of your bank account, close to $200.

And stolen cards from Asia are worth more than those from the United States. Different factors including how quickly your credit card company reacts all play into the black market value.

You can find everything from drugs to firearms on the dark web. And it gets darker. There are forums where photos of nude celebrities are bought and sold.

MICHAEL GREGG, SECURITY RESEARCHER: A lot of times these things might be privately traded. Think of them as baseball cards, you've got one, I've got one, and they are traded in the groups and we may never hear about it.

SEGALL: A dark web of some of your most personal data.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Wow. That tells you how bad it is.

Laurie Segall joins me now.

Fascinating piece.

SEGALL: Right.

HARLOW: I sort of sit here in disbelief because I have no idea if my information is out there. How do people know?

SEGALL: Who knows, right? The dark web, it's this whole other layer of the Internet, and it's not very easy to access. So, you don't know if your information is out there in the dark web, because you think of all of the retailers that have been hacked, there is so much information. All of my sources said there is more and more information behind the layers on the internet.

I mean, I can't tell you if your internet is on the dark net, but I can tell you that you might know if you've been hacked if you open the computer, you see unwanted browser tool bars, if you see a lot of pop ups coming up more frequently, if you are accidently sending spam e- mails. I mean, those ways, you know, that you've been hacked.

And in this scenario, just make sure you are checking your credit card statements frequently because this is happening more and more than it used to.

HARLOW: And we know that companies hire these hackers, bring them on board to try to fight off their peers, their fellow hackers. Can we expect the government, the FBI is investigating, can we expect the government to get a handle on this and shut them down or is that not a reality?

SEGALL: Well, the irony in all of this is the Tor network, which is where a lot of this is happening, was built by the U.S. Navy for protected communications, right? So, now, what is happening is you have these safe communications happening with people perhaps looking for a safe haven but then you also have hackers being able to access.

And I got to tell you, it's a game of whack-a-mole, because they shut down one of the biggest sites on the dark web called Silk Road, you talk to any hacker. I have the Tor network on my computer where I can look around, there are thousands of these sites and there is little you can do.

What's even scarier is when you speak with to some of these hackers, they say there are darker forums, deeper, deeper in the dark web, where these celebrity nude photos, say, from this Apple hack could have been circulating for months, even years before they went public because there are groups dedicated to this kind of thing. It's a scary place, Poppy.

HARLOW: I think a lot of us don't want to even deal with it and pretend like it's not affecting us. I know in some ways, I think that's scary to see how to grapple with this. But you have to be aware this is happening.

Laurie, thank you. Great reporting. Appreciate it.

All right. Coming up next here in the NEWSROOM, who is to blame for leaking those explicit private photos of celebrities? Of course, the hackers are to blame? But what kind of responsibility do the tech companies bear that store our data? We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Millions of people around the country use the Cloud to store their photos, their documents, ton of their data. But just this week, a group of hackers showed how vulnerable that personal information can be, leaking explicit photographs from more than 100 celebrities.

Here's our Dan Simon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jennifer Lawrence, Kate Upton, Kristen Dunst, and a host of other celebrities' explicit and private photos splashed on the Internet. The hackers claimed to have targeted more than 100 celebrities. The photos apparently lifted from the Cloud-based storage service. Apple's iCloud emerged as a likely target.

Kirsten Dunst tweeting simply, "Thank you, iCloud."

Today, Apple acknowledging, quote, "We have discovered that certain celebrity accounts were compromised by a very targeted attack on user names, passwords and security questions -- a practice that has become all too common on the Internet. But the statement also says that the company's actual systems were not breached.

All of this, though, raising concerns about the security of the Cloud. Most of us rely on it, whether we post photos to Facebook, use a service like Dropbox to back up our files, or simply have contacts or e-mails stored with Google, Apple or any number of Internet-based services.

KEVIN MAHAFFEY, CHIEF TECHNOLOGY OFFICER, LOOKOUT MOBILE SECURITY: The Cloud like any other piece of technology has positives and negatives.

SIMON: Kevin Mahaffey is the chief technology officer for Lookout Mobile Security, one of the biggest players in protecting cell phone data.

MAHAFFEY: The positives are if you store your data in the Cloud, it's less likely to get lost. If you lose your phone or your phone breaks or you drop it in the lake, you usually lose your data. And so, the Cloud protects you from that, however, it also exposes the data to breach if you use a bad password or if the Cloud service gets hacked.

SIMON: And sometimes, if you delete a photo from a device, it may still live on the Cloud. Still, experts say the two main ways to better protect your data are first, by creating strong and unique passwords and second, enabling two-step authentication, where you have to enter a four or five-digit code usually sent to your phone by a text.

(on camera): Do you have a sense if this was professional job or an amateur job?

MAHAFFEY: You know, my speculation is this probably skews more towards the amateur side. Professional hackers tend to go after critical infrastructures such as oil and gas, nuclear power plants or other espionage oriented activities, whereas amateur hackers might do it for fun, just to cause chaos on the Internet.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: The FBI, of course, is investigating the celebrity nude photo hacking. Apple says it will and it, frankly, already has beef up its security.

Ultimately, though, who is to blame for all this? Who is responsible for stopping it?

I want to bring in CNN commentator and legal analyst Mel Robins, also Martha Pease, a branding expert and the CEO of DemandWorks.com.

Mel, let's talk about this issue of they are going to get out there at some points because the hackers are not going to stop doing this, right? And part of the issue here is who owns the content? Who owns the photos? When you are trying to combat this and get something leaked down from Web sites.

Talk to us about that. MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR: Yes, you got it. So, there is, first of all, what you need to know is that the law presumes that the photographer is the one that actually owns the photos. So, if you are taking a selfie, you are all set under copyright law. You can assert a right to have the photo taken down. But if somebody else took the photo you have to have the photographer establish that you, in fact, own the photo as the subject and that it should be taken down.

HARLOW: Possibly bringing up more private information about who that might be in your fight with these Web sites that have this posted which is pretty disgusting, frankly, that this is happening.

When you look at this, Martha, in terms of the companies, right? So, Apple clearly is bad press for them. I mean, they say their iCloud wasn't hacked. But what did happen is they let people guess passwords and security question answers an unlimited amount of times. And that's what happened here as they successfully get it. Now, Apple has changed that.

But what should technology companies learn from this?

MARTHA PEASE, DEMANDWORKS.COM: Well, I think it is a great question. I think it is an industry wide issue. We have seen individual companies like Target, Home Depot, Neiman Marcus, Apple now, individual companies have been hacked. And this should be elevating our awareness as consumers that there are risks involved and it's a different kind of risk than getting on to an airplane, and getting into your car.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Yes.

PEASE: But I think companies are going to have to respond and I think beyond a company responding because this is a blanket issue regardless of the industry in which you work. There are going to have to be industry efforts -- industry changes, industry efforts to be accountable to consumers about this.

HARLOW: But how do companies successfully respond? Because it almost seems like it's a matter of time before another massive company -- Home Depot is in the headlines with the suspected hack. They're investigating it. This happens to them. Are they putting enough resources behind this?

PEASE: Well, that's another great question.

I mean, we don't know if there is R&D money being allocated to this issue. We don't know if this has been prioritized as a number one corporate issue in these companies to protect the security of their customers. We know that they are really interested in getting our data, but the issue that's going to have to be addressed fairly quickly and I think the consumers are going to be pushing back on with their dollars, with their purchases.

HARLOW: Do we trust to swipe here? PEASE: Do we trust a swipe here? Do we trust this product and this company to act on our behalf and invest in our security and safety?

HARLOW: Mel, on that point, companies like to get this data. It can be hugely profitable to know as much as they can about us. It's the reality of the modern age.

However, do you think that there should be laws, more tough laws put in place for companies that fail us on this front?

ROBBINS: Well, it's interesting that you ask this because there has not been a successful lawsuit that's brought on negligence against a big player like Apple. The health care industry, the finance industry hugely regulated in terms of data you can store, how you are supposed to store it.

I believe that we're going to see a lawsuit against Apple in this case. And the question --

HARLOW: You do?

ROBBINS: I do, because what Apple said in their press release and Martha can probably speak more to this from the PR brand side is they said the hacks are all too common. If this is a known security threat and if this was a brutal attack against Apple but they know this stuff is going on, a jury or judge could assess this and say, wait a minute -- were they negligent? Have they not fixed this kind of glitch in their system?

Because what they're doing is they are selling us a product, giving us a 37 page user agreement wink, wink, nod, nod, who reads it, and basically saying your stuff is secure when it is not?

HARLOW: Yes, it's fascinating. I wish we had hours more to talk about. We will have both again soon. Thank you very much, Martha and Mel. Appreciate it.

ROBBINS: Thank you.

HARLOW: Coming up next here on THE NEWSROOM: our next guest says every time Internet users click on a nude photo or terror group's video, they are, quote, "abetting evil." That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: When graphic and disturbing material shows up online, it is easy for us to point out the horrors of the material. But do we as members of society play any role in it?

Two very different examples this week, the brutal beheading of American journalist Steven Sotloff and the grotesque violation of privacy for a number of female celebrities after their private nude photos were hacked.

With me is Michael Daly, he's an author and correspondent for "The Daily Beast". He wrote an absolutely fascinating piece. You have to point out how different -- these aren't on the same scale,

whatsoever. But you also said this piece was hard to write because they are such different examples but came to the same conclusion.

MICHAEL DALY, THE DAILY BEAST: You know, at first, I wasn't going to write it because I mean, it is like how can you mention something so serious as ISIS and a nude photo. But it's the same time, it's the same question. I think sometimes when it is a moral question differences of magnitude lead you towards the truth a little more oddly enough.

I mean, I think with the nude photos I think nobody -- it's pretty clear. I mean, nobody can think it is right to look at those photos because -- nobody can rightly night feel you are party to violating someone's privacy when you look at those photos.

HARLOW: Sure.

DALY: You get to the ISIS question, gets a little more complicated. And one person I thought about was Emmett Till, back when he was murdered for having the audacity to whistle at a white woman.

HARLOW: And his mother wanting people to see how brutally he'd been beaten.

DALY: She insisted his photograph be taken and his coffin remained open, because she wanted everybody in the world to know what evil had been done to her son.

So, with these ISIS things, when you want to not look, when you want to say to yourself, am I somehow avoiding evil, am I somehow turning a blind eye to evil at home? But then, the difference between poor Emmett Till, and these poor guys, is that those videos were staged by ISIS. They wanted you to look at them.

I mean, you know, we are in front of a camera now because of the expectation of people to look at it. And that's why ISIS had a camera in front of these guys.

HARLOW: And you're write, "To view these nudes is not quite to abet evil but it is to undermine decency and decency is our strength as we face such monstrous foes as ISIS.

DALY: I think that is our strength is simple decency and questions as seemingly small as whether do I contribute to violating this woman's privacy or as large as, do I abet evil by watching these videos? That really is kind of -- I think the whole question of look or not look, really the answer is look to yourself and look to what you really know is right and what you know is wrong.

HARLOW: Because we all know that if we self-examine.

Michael Daly, it's a fascinating story. Thank you for coming in and talking to us about it.

DALY: Thanks for having me. HARLOW: We appreciate it.

We'll be back here in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Plans are underway for family and friends to say their final goodbye to comic legend Joan Rivers. Her funeral is set for tomorrow here in New York. As Rivers' daughter Melissa was leaving her mother's apartment this morning, she commented on all the tributes that have poured in, calling them amazing.

Well, coming up next on CNN, a look back at Joan Rivers' life.

I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. Thanks so much for being with us this evening.

"CNN Spotlight: Joan Rivers" starts right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)