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Interview With California Congressman Ed Royce; Ray Rice Terminated

Aired September 08, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go, hour two. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And we're following a breaking story for you this afternoon. We have just learned the NFL has suspended indefinitely Baltimore Ravens running back star Ray Rice. Moments ago, we also got word that the Ravens had terminated Rice's contract, right?

So, we got the word from the team first and then we got the word from the NFL. That's sort of how this whole thing has gone down this afternoon. It happened pretty quickly, hours after this surveillance video surfaced and we will show you part of it. It shows Rice with his then-fiancee, Janay Palmer.

They're in this elevator and you see him knock her unconscious. But just a warning to you. If you have kids in the room, get them out, because it's tough to watch this video to see how this woman is treated. So Ray Rice has already admitted to what you're about to see.

We have never seen what happened back in March inside this Atlantic City casino. But watch this with me. Here, they are entering the elevator, Ray Rice and his then-fiancee. There's punches thrown back and forth and then he really clocks her enough to at least it looks like deem her unconscious.

Playing it again. Again, this was obtained by TMZ. TMZ got this. And you will see elevator doors open. Unconscious. Dragging her. Elevator doors close. Grabs her again and pulls her out. Leaves her on the ground. Doesn't cover her up. And that was that.

The NFL would later fine Rice and give him a short two-game suspension without pay. It was a penalty that was widely criticized for being far too lenient. The couple is now married and they say they are going through counseling.

We have a lot to talk about. Let me bring in a lot of voices, CNN commentator Marc Lamont Hill, CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin, and we have Rachel Nichols here, host of CNN's "UNGUARDED." And we have, I believe, correct me in my ear, control room, Coy Wire on the phone, former NFL player. And he's certainly not going to mince words on this one.

But first to you as sort of as our -- with a reporter hat on with me. How did this whole thing -- it went down first -- tell me if this was choreographed, calculated, first the Ravens' termination and then the NFL indefinite suspension.

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: You have to think they spoke to each other, but it doesn't seem as choreographed as some of these usually do. It seems like there's been a lot of panic, a lot of cross-conversation today and just a lot of reaction to the genuine outrage that the NFL and Ravens were receiving from the community and they should frankly.

This is outrage that's been building over the course of many months. It was outrage that frankly existed months ago. How do you think when we saw the original video of him dragging her out of the elevator unconscious, how do you think she got that way? And sort of the subtext through all of that over these months has been, hey, maybe she did something to him first. The truth is it doesn't matter.

You can't instigate your own domestic abuse. That's irrelevant. But that was the story that was being circulated a little bit.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's important to note the story was circulated by his attorneys. His attorneys made a statement that said, sort of hypothetically, if this were happening, if she had hit him first, what would people say?

And so they injected that narrative into this story. I got to say, and I have been chomping at the bit because I was a domestic violence prosecutor.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: And what has been infuriating, quite frankly, to me are all the tweets, all comments about how women don't love themselves and how could she marry him even after this.

I want people to know, I want our viewers to know that this is classic domestic violence, that I prosecuted many, many of these cases and I can explain to you that bottom line is a lot of these women, of course, love themselves, but oftentimes show up to court for the domestic trial holding the hand of the defendant, refuse to testify against the defendant, so to suggest somehow that she brought this on herself or to suggest that somehow some way that this is her fault I think is a narrative that we really need to stay away from, especially when you don't understand the roots and really the psychological damage and physical damage that occurs with domestic violence cases.

BALDWIN: I'm so glad you bring this up, because it's so part of this entire story, not just the sports angle, but also the domestic violence angle, having prosecuted so many of these cases.

I want to loop back to that point.

But, Coy Wire, former NFL player, we talked many times on TV, but, listen, you are outraged. I have seen your tweets. So you, sir, are saying indefinite suspension on behalf of the league is not enough.

COY WIRE, FORMER NFL PLAYER: No, I think that he has to be banned. I think there's an opportunity here to make a great statement and to take a stand.

What you tolerate, you perpetuate. I'm not alone in this. Many former players and many current players feel the same exact way. The image -- images that we have all now seen drove, it just -- it drove the point home further. To Rachel's point, it didn't even need to be seen.

But just you have to commend in this situation the Baltimore Ravens ownership, leadership, for taking this stand, a great opportunity to make a huge statement to the collegiate level, to the high school, to thousands, hundreds of thousands of youth who look up to these players, what an opportunity to make a bold statement. Ban someone like that for life.

(CROSSTALK)

NICHOLS: Coy, I agree with you that it's positive that they made this statement, but I can't commend the Baltimore Ravens for doing it. They stood by for way too long.

Finally doing the right thing after you are beaten and bullied into it -- and I'm using those words on purpose -- is not something to be commended.

HOSTIN: I want to mention, I think it's remarkable that the NFL claimed today that they had never seen this tape, because if you are conducting a domestic violence investigation -- again, I conducted those investigations -- the bottom line is the first thing that you look for is of course a statement by the victim and in this case they interviewed her with her abuser, which is unbelievable, but also you are supposed to look for all of the evidence.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: You're supposed to look for hospital evidence. You're supposed to look for medical records. You're supposed to look into past domestic violence issues and you're supposed to look for the videotape.

The suggestion somehow that they imposed this two-game suspension without having seen this -- allegedly not having seen this videotape, I find is suspect.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Marc Lamont Hill, I know you're not sitting with us so you have to jump in. I want to hear your voice, because I know you have a voice when it comes to this story. What do you think?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I have been outraged all day. Releasing Ray Rice to me is the only thing you can do. Suspending him for just as much time as possible is the only thing you can do. I don't buy the NFL's story that they hadn't seen the tape.

BALDWIN: You don't? HILL: I do not buy the story. I can't imagine they made a determination without having seen the tape. If they did, it's irresponsible.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: It's reprehensible.

(CROSSTALK)

NICHOLS: Can't you buy that, though, given all the other things they did or didn't do? I totally buy that they didn't see the tape because they fell down on the job in so many other ways. They interviewed her with him present.

(CROSSTALK)

NICHOLS: Yes, of course it is. Look, it's no excuse. The statement they put out today said, hey, we asked for it and it wasn't given to us. That in and of itself tells you everything you need to want to know.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: Is it time then for Roger Goodell not to be the NFL commissioner? Is it time then for us to call for him to step down? Are we there now?

NICHOLS: Well, look, there are people starting to ask that question. It's the first time I have ever heard anyone seriously ask that. This is a guy who makes a tremendous amount of money for the owners every year. It's going to be hard to see them get rid of him. And that's what would have to happen. The rest of us don't have a say there.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: Here's where the public pressure comes. Right? Donald Sterling was forced out not just by Adam Silver, but by the other owners because it was bad for business.

Roger Goodell is basically run by these owners. At this point if the league has made a position that domestic violence isn't a priority -- and a two-game suspension -- the initial two-game suspension suggests that it wasn't a priority, wasn't something they took seriously -- when we see this stuff happening again and again over again --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Now Roger Goodell could say, I have changed the rules. Much more stringent when it comes to domestic violence. This was one, one example. We have indefinitely suspended him. I'm just saying, this is what folks in the NFL camp could say.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: It's a reasonable counterargument. But it's our job as fans, as critics, as supporters, as and media folk to put the pressure on them to continue to make them do the right thing. The right thing might be getting rid of Roger Goodell. It might be putting more pieces in place for this so that, as someone said, from high school to the time you retire from the NFL, you understand that it's off-limits, it's unacceptable and it won't be tolerated.

BALDWIN: Charges were dropped, correct?

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: Charges were not dropped. This was an aggravated assault. This was a felony. I have watched that tape, as we all have at this point. My understanding is that the court allowed him to enter into what's called a diversionary program, which means you get counseling. You do community service.

And after a certain amount of time, I think in this case a year, then the assault charges are dropped. Let me also say this, though. At least where I prosecuted cases in the District of Columbia, this kind of assault would never, ever be appropriate for a diversionary program.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: It's a very tough standard. There's usually and generally and there should be this sort of zero tolerance policy for these kinds of cases. I have seen cases where you sort of give someone a slap on the wrist and then the victim comes back dead.

The suggestion that this was handled appropriately because of this diversionary program is just remarkable. So I think we need to look into the prosecutor's office that handled this case, because in my experience this would never be part of a diversionary program.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: What body exists? And Rachel is essentially saying there is no body. We citizens would be that third body, the watchdog to look into the NFL.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: For the government, there's a chain of command.

BALDWIN: OK.

Final just from you, Coy, what kind of message? Here we have indefinite suspension. We have termination from the ravens. What message does this send to fellow players?

WIRE: To Lamont's point, great point about the owners joining together to ban Sterling from the NBA.

I think focus needs to shift to NFL players and their association. Executive leadership within their executive leadership committee can join together and say they do not want to be associated with people like this any longer. They should -- the focus should be on them as well and impetus to be with them to make this powerful statement that players like this will not be part of our brotherhood.

BALDWIN: Coy, Marc, Sunny, Rachel, thank you, thank you, thank you. Important discussion all of the way around.

Got to move along. Here we are now six months ago to the day after Malaysian Air Flight 370 disappeared, setting off one of the biggest searches in history. One nagging question remains. How could a huge airliner simply vanish?

And also ahead, president of the United States set to lay out his plan to defeat ISIS, laying out his strategy, but according to reports it could take three years or more. Will he ask for congressional authorization? Will they support the president on these kind of actions? We will talk to a congressman, chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

As President Barack Obama fleshes out a strategy to take on ISIS, we know he and his speechwriters are crafting the speech for Wednesday night as I speak, according to that White House briefing. We know that the militants continue their bloody rampage. We have this new video that has surfaced exposing more savagery at the hands of these terrorists, the president vowing to hunt them down and it appears he has a plan involving three stages.

Number one, the airstrike campaign that is already under way, number two, a ground offensive focusing on training and arming Iraqi and Kurdish forces and perhaps some Sunni militias, and, number three, going after the ISIS network inside of Syria.

So far, the president has been acting alone. One of the questions now, will he seek congressional approval?

I want you to take a listen to what the White House said just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president has invited the four leaders of Congress, the Democratic and Republican leader of both the House and the Senate, to come to the White House tomorrow to discuss some of these issues and to follow up on the very successful NATO summit that the president attended in Wale at the end of last week.

So the president is committed to intensive consultation between the administration and Congress as we consider some of these very difficult and very high-stakes questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Ed Royce, Republican representative from California and the chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs.

Mr. Chairman, welcome.

REP. ED ROYCE (R), CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We will all be watching, as I know you will be, the president laying out the strategy Wednesday night.

What action specifically do you want to hear the administration will take?

ROYCE: Well, I think we need to hear a serious strategy that focuses on the fact that ISIS is using bases to train.

And when these young men learn how to commit attacks, many of them can return to the West, to the United States in order to carry out attacks here. That's what they have threatened to do. They are killing Americans.

So we want to hear a plan, I think, that brings our allies on board, that isn't just the United States doing the airstrikes, but other NATO members and other countries like Australia that have indicated a willingness to join with us, other countries in the region providing infantry, and certainly expecting the Kurdish and Iraqi security forces, Free Syrian Army to be armed, and, lastly, no U.S. troops on the ground there, no combat troops.

That's, I think, what Congress is looking for in terms of a plan.

BALDWIN: Two points here. One, with regard to not just NATO nations but Arab countries, if you had to choose one Arab nation that you would like to see take a strong leadership role in this fight, which one would it be?

ROYCE: We heard some strong support yesterday from the Arab League, so I think we're going to see support from Saudi Arabia, from the UAE, certainly from Jordan.

But -- and one of the questions I think they have as well that they raised yesterday was, what is the plan, the strategy? So a lot is dependent upon the strategy that the president lays out to the American people on Wednesday. As you mentioned, on Tuesday, he's going to be meeting with the leadership.

And then the following, the following week on Tuesday, we are holding hearings. In my committee, we will have the secretary of state there, where we can fully vet and the members of the Foreign Affairs Committee can hear the details, full details of the strategy.

BALDWIN: You know, Chairman Royce, we were hearing in the White House briefing with Josh Earnest -- and he was pressed on what exactly, as far as the president stands on congressional buy-in. That's what we keep hearing.

ROYCE: Right. BALDWIN: And the one new nugget that I heard -- and I would love to

just -- this is looking ahead, right, this is a hypothetical, but in looking ahead into the possibility of airstrikes in Syria, he said if they expand the scope of operations, if and when the president decides, they would potentially go to Congress.

Would you, could you see yourself supporting airstrikes and taking this fight to Syria?

ROYCE: To be blunt about it, for seven months, eight months, we have been urging, while these units were massing in Syria and training there and beginning to go across the border, myself on the Republican side and my ranking member on the Democratic side have both urged action, because it seemed to us that to allow this terrorist organization to dig in would be a mistake. And they were inviting targets.

BALDWIN: Action meaning airstrikes?

ROYCE: Airstrikes. We supported airstrikes.

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes.

ROYCE: And, frankly, too, what has happened is that they were able to go city to city, capture the resources and build their organization.

And the original advice -- and this came from the Senate too, as I recall -- was to have a strategy then, seven months ago, to go in and hit these units. As they traveled across the desert, they were inviting targets for either armed drones or airstrikes.

BALDWIN: Do you think -- final question to you, sir, and then I will let you go. But do you think when we hear from the president on Wednesday, and he made -- it was clear this talking to Chuck Todd over the weekend on "Meet the Press" that this will not be the equivalent of the Iraq war.

But do you think when we hear from the president on Wednesday he should call it a war?

ROYCE: Well, I think the key here, regardless of what he calls it, is, is the goal to destroy ISIL?

And from what I am hearing as this plan comes together, the plan is to destroy their training bases. And that's where these Chechen officers are training these young men, 18, 19 years old that come from Europe or United States. Remember, there's over 2,000 of them that hold passports from Europe and perhaps a couple hundred from the United States.

BALDWIN: Right.

ROYCE: Those bases have to be taken out. Right? Those training centers have to be destroyed and the leadership in ISIL has to be targeted. If that's part of the strategy, then I think we're on our way towards

an effective plan to deal with the threat before they have the opportunity to use a safe haven to figure out how to come back and hit the West, hit London, hit New York, et cetera.

BALDWIN: OK. OK.

Mr. Chairman, Ed Royce, I really appreciate you taking the time for me this afternoon from Capitol Hill. Thank you, sir.

And let's just broaden this out. I want to bring in Chris Dickey from Daily Beast. You have been on with me multiple times recently, foreign editor with The Daily Beast.

As I'm talking to the chairman, I'm looking at you out of the corner of my eye seeing you shake your head. Why?

CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, first of all, Chairman Royce is being a little disingenuous.

When he says that we should have been bombing these bases, these training bases quite a while ago, great. First of all, were the American people ready to start bombing Syria six months ago? I don't think so. They were not in that mood at all.

And part of what President Obama has been trying to do is to create the groundwork where there will be popular support for whatever he does. That's the real point of the speech on Wednesday. The message is the message. It's that he's getting in front of the American people and says this is what we're doing and this is why. If he said it much earlier, there would not have been the popular support.

BALDWIN: Let me just allow the congressman to respond to that.

Congressman Royce, I hear you're still with us. Would you like to respond to Mr. Dickey?

ROYCE: Well, part of leadership is to get out ahead of a problem. Part of leadership is to recognize that when you have an al Qaeda- affiliated organization like this that is committed to attacking the United States and is committing these acts of jihad, to go up in front of the American public and to say, listen, if we use armed drones right now, we can target them. We can diminish their ability to win on the battlefield.

To wait for them to take 16, 17 cities across Iraq is not really a strategy that reflects leadership.

DICKEY: Well, I would like to ask the congressman whether you think training bases are really the thing that should be targeted.

The real problem with ISIS is that it is incredibly rich. And one of the reasons it's rich is because, for instance, it controls not only oil fields, but some oil refineries. It's exporting millions and millions of dollars a week worth of oil, diesel fuel to Turkey, for instance. Wouldn't that be a better target for America in -- for American bombers in Syria than training bases?

ROYCE: Well, the point was as I mentioned in my remarks, it's not just the bases. It was the fact that we had the chance to hit their columns, their trucks, as they were moving to these sites where they took over those oil fields or where they took Mosul or Kirkuk or so forth.

(CROSSTALK)

DICKEY: But I'm talking about now, but now, but now, Congressman.

(CROSSTALK)

DICKEY: Wouldn't now --

ROYCE: Now we have an opportunity to cut off the terror finance, is what we call it, in terms of moving to put pressure on Turkey and to use what considerable diplomatic pressure we should have on Erdogan, the head of state in Turkey, in order to get them to cooperate, and, of course, with the other states in the region. But, frankly, we haven't had a strategy for that.

BALDWIN: OK. Congressman, thank you.

And I'm glad he brought up Turkey.

And let me just turn to you and ask you about Turkey, because I was reading. There was a piece in "The New York Times" this morning talking about Turkey. And what I didn't realize, because it's such a key player in the region, is just geographically how some of these people are coming in to fight the fight against ISIS through Turkey. There are -- I believe the number was 39 diplomats being held hostage by ISIS.

DICKEY: That's right.

BALDWIN: So, it's a precarious situation for Turkey here.

DICKEY: Well, look, Turkey is the key here.

BALDWIN: It is the key.

DICKEY: And I don't think nearly enough attention has been paid for it. We have a very good piece in The Daily Beast today about exactly this, about the diesel exports, but also specifically about why Turkey is important.

BALDWIN: Excellent.

DICKEY: Turkey has 650,000 men and women under arms. Turkey is on the border, not just with Syria and Iraq. It's on the border with ISIS. You can stand on the Turkish frontier and look across the fence and see the black flags of ISIS flying.

BALDWIN: Incredible. DICKEY: Turkey has supported the fight against Assad and to do that it has supported a lot of jihadis, sometimes training in Turkey, sometimes getting R&R in Turkey.

It's been very slow to make the transition from supporting people fighting Assad to taking away support from ISIS, who started out in that guise. All of that is problematic. If we're looking for boots on the ground, if we are looking for a military force that is really able to dominate the region, I can understand why the Turks wouldn't want to get involved with a war.

But they are a NATO army. They are the second largest army in NATO. And they are sitting on the frontier of ISIS. This is more than just a diplomatic question. It's a strategic question. What is Turkey going to do? They do have 49 hostages.

BALDWIN: Forty-nine.

DICKEY: Their entire consulate in Mosul, which is a very big, important consulate for them was taken over.

BALDWIN: Taken over, yes.

DICKEY: Mosul is the second biggest city in Iraq. It's a big commercial center. It's less than 100 miles from the Turkish border. So Turkey is the key.

BALDWIN: Turkey is the key.

Chris Dickey, thank you so much for coming on. We will read the piece in The Daily Beast.

DICKEY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And I just want to thank the congressman, Ed Royce, for hanging in and doing that on the fly with us. We appreciate it very much.

President Obama, his vacation, his golf outings, for example, certainly gave critics additional ammunition here. Now the president is admitting in an interview perhaps there is a point about the optics after the beheading video of James Foley. We will have more on that and the president coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)