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Don Lemon Tonight

NFL Under Fire for Handling of Ray Rice; Suze Orman on the Economy

Aired September 09, 2014 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

Tonight, everyone is talking about the aftermath of that caught-on- tape moment from TMZ Sports when Ray Rice knocks out his fiancee with a single punch.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Everybody has an opinion. You may not agree with some of what you hear tonight. But it's all part of the conversation that we need to have about domestic violence and what to do about it.

CAMEROTA: You will hear from actress and abuse survivor Robin Givens. She says former husband boxer Mike Tyson assaulted her. She joins us exclusively tonight to talk about why women stay and how they can leave.

Also, the man who says if Michael Vick can make a comeback, so can Ray Rice. Stephen A. Smith is here. And former Washington Redskins running back Clinton Portis, he's friend of Ray Rice, and he will tell us about the person that he knew.

LEMON: My goodness, a very busy show.

Plus what did the NFL know and when did they know it? Roger Goodell says the league was never given the chance to see the video. And he is not ruling out a comeback for Ray Rice. We are going to get into all of that this evening.

But let's begin, though, with the headlines in the Ray Rice story. Our breaking news tonight, the owner of the Baltimore Ravens, Stephen J. Bisciotti, has sent a lengthy letter to fans which reads, in part, here it is: "The decision to let Ray Rice go was unanimous. Seeing that video changed everything. We should have seen it earlier. We should have pursued our own investigation more vigorously. We didn't. And we were wrong. We also have learned a great deal and will continue to strive to be an organization and team you and Baltimore will be proud of. I am sorry I let you down."

And the NFL commissioner, Roger Goodell, tells CBS' Norah O'Donnell that the league wasn't given the opportunity to see the video. Here it is. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS NEWS: To be clear, did you know that a second tape existed?

ROGER GOODELL, NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE COMMISSIONER: Well, we had not seen any videotape of what occurred in the elevator. We assumed that there was a video. We asked for video. We asked for anything that was pertinent. But we were never granted that opportunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, meanwhile, Ray Rice's nice, Janay, took to Instagram today with a message defending her husband.

She writes -- quote -- "This is our life. What don't you all get? If your intentions were to hurt us, embarrass us, make us feel alone, take all happiness away, you have succeeded on so many levels. Just know, we will continue to grow and show the world what real love is. Ravensnation, we love you!"

So, let's bring now in Stephen A. Smith, ESPN anchor and radio analyst.

Thank you very much.

STEPHEN A. SMITH, ESPN: What's up?

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: You heard what Roger Goodell said there. What do you make of his statement this evening?

SMITH: Well, I will tell you in the sports community, it is pretty difficult to believe that the NFL, a multibillion-dollar establishment, with some of the best security money can buy, couldn't find a way to get their hands on the tape to really see what had transpired inside that hotel casino in Atlantic City.

But you have to give -- take Roger Goodell at his word. He's the commissioner of the NFL. All of his decisions aren't pristine. They're all not perfect. But, nevertheless, when you look at him, you don't see a man, and there is no history of him being a liar on anything of that nature. You do have to take him at his word.

But it is kind of shocking, considering that we are talking about the National Football League. You have got three teams, the New York Jets, the New York Giants, and the Philadelphia Eagles right there by the turnpike. Atlantic City is close by. You got to believe you got some connections in Atlantic City, where you could have gotten your hands on the video. But if he says he didn't...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And Ray Rice's attorney had the video. And if the NFL has relationships with Homeland Security, with all sorts of government agencies. It is surprising given the level of their influence that they would not have seen this tape. Some people are saying it's willful ignorance. Do you believe that?

SMITH: Well, I think a legitimate argument can be made about that.

Clearly, if you dropped the ball and you did not see the video, chances are if you are the NFL and you didn't see that video, it's because you didn't want to see it. There's plenty of instances where you could look at the NFL, the NBA, Major League Baseball, if you are a multibillion-dollar establishment, obviously, money talks. And if you have the clout, the cache, which they certainly do, you can get your hands on the damn video to see what happened. Somebody is buying that.

LEMON: Let's talk about this, the owner of the Baltimore Ravens, an open letter to stockholders talking about initially what they did, how they heard about the incident from Ray Rice.

His explanation was that: "After he and Janay consumed a great deal of alcohol, they had had an argument and that they struck each other." The letter goes on to lay out a long -- you know, the timeline of the Ray Rice -- and then it talks about the disciplinary action. And then it concludes this: "Because of his positive contributions on and off the field over the last six years, Ray had earned every benefit of doubt from our organization. We took everything we knew and decided to support Ray Rice until we could not anymore."

Now his teammates are speaking out. They have been put in an awkward position. What do you make of these things?

SMITH: They're devastated. The teammates are devastated. There's no question about that.

This is a guy from New Rochelle that starred at Rutgers. This is a guy that had just an impeccable reputation, was a pillar in the Baltimore community, was very philanthropic, contributed to many causes, was seen as a model citizen. And there was nothing like this in his history to point to. When the owner says that we wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, that there was nothing in his past, he is right about that.

LEMON: Yes. OK.

About the tape, Harvey Levin of TMZ, let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARVEY LEVIN, MANAGING EDITOR, TMZ.COM: I think the issue is, why the heck didn't the NFL commissioner seek to get it?

He is a very aggressive guy. And anybody who knows anything about him knows that when he conducts an investigation, he literally micromanages it. He will make phone calls. He will do all sorts of things to make sure punishment is meted out and an investigation is aggressive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: One of the players wrote today, a former player, Sage Rosenfels, said: "Roger Goodell made $44 million last year to make really difficult decisions. This was an easy one."

Should he go?

SMITH: No, I don't believe so. Roger Goodell made a mistake. He clearly dropped the ball. The incident took place in February. It wasn't until July that you handed down the decision.

Clearly, the two-game suspension, he came up short on that. He acknowledged it, implemented a new domestic violence policy Calling for a six-game banishment for a first-time offender and a lifetime ban for a second-time offender, obviously open to appeal after one year.

So that policy wasn't implemented in the National Football League until this incident took place. Roger Goodell is not perfect. Roger Goodell has made mistakes. He's clearly made a huge mistake in this particular situation. But the NFL is about business. It's the number one sport in the United States. And the fact of the matter is as the commissioner of this league, albeit not perfect, there is no question that he is not the individual that put his hand on Janay Palmer.

That was Ray Rice. He should not lose his job for this.

LEMON: You remember the tweet the NFL put out saying that Janay took responsibility for what she did, sort of insinuating that there was some shared -- the Ravens put that -- sent that out.

SMITH: Yes.

LEMON: That she sort of shared the blame. You made controversial statements.

SMITH: Yes.

LEMON: You owned what you say. Do you think that -- do you think it was that they're sort of blaming the victim by putting that out?

SMITH: I got that impression before the video came out.

Once the video came out, there is no question that nobody is going to come out and say, well, she kind of brought this on herself. You can talk to those tweets or what have you. You can surmise that that's what they were insinuating. But after everybody saw this video yesterday, I don't think the NFL or anybody associated with this in any way or anybody that has two eyes and saw this would look to her and point the finger of blame in her direction in any capacity.

LEMON: Can we talk about comebacks? Because you believe that he can come back. You said not this season, but he can come back?

SMITH: Right. Well, let me modify that position. He can come back if this incident is an impediment. For those of you that may not watch football, may not know football in

this modern-day era, Ray Rice wasn't that great last season, averaged about three yards a carry, last half of the season, less than three yards a carry. Not very impressive. So, he has got a bigger problem, because not only does he have this incident to deal with. But even if he could come back, and was 100 percent healthy, there are some questions as to how productive he would be as a running back.

That's his bigger problem. But as it pertains to this incident...

LEMON: This doesn't help, obviously.

SMITH: This doesn't help because it keeps you out of the game for a year. And you're a running back position, the running back position, they start counting the days on you the minute you hit 29 to 30 years of age. He is going to be 28 when he is perceived as being eligible. So, that's a problem in and of itself.

But more importantly than that, I am saying that we have got a league, you are talking about a guy like Leonard Little in 1998 that killed somebody after getting behind the wheel of a car inebriated. We're talking about a guy in Donte Stallworth that did the same. He got back into the league. We're talking about Michael Vick, who was convicted and spent 18 months in a federal penitentiary for electrocuting, maiming dogs, and things of that nature.

LEMON: They need to get a handle overall though...

(CROSSTALK)

SMITH: They need to get a handle, all of it.

But what I'm saying is, there have been incidences where people have died because of the actions of a player, and they were allowed, those players were allowed back into the league.

I have to believe if the appropriate level of contrition was shown by Ray Rice, they go and get the help, he goes and gets the help that he needs, the family continues to stand together, based on his history of never having an incident until this one, if Ray Rice can still play the game of football, I think, ultimately, Roger Goodell will sit there and allow him back into the league, which Roger Goodell alluded to, because he wouldn't give him the -- quote, unquote -- "death penalty."

LEMON: Can I -- I have been wanting to get you on since this all came about.

SMITH: Sure.

LEMON: What did you -- what did you learn through this experience? What did you learn about words and about domestic violence?

SMITH: Clarity. Clarity.

Listen, as it pertains to domestic violence, for myself, I don't have anything to learn. I was raised by five women. I'm 46 years of age. I have eight nieces. I have four older sisters. I have the most wonderful mother in the world.

I have never put my hands on a woman in my life. Matter of fact, the times in my life when I put my hands on men is because I saw them putting their hands on a woman. So, I have nothing to learn in regards to that. The level of sensitivity that people need to show, I have always had that.

What I have learned is that sitting in this chair on national television, with the opportunity to disseminate a message to the masses on a regular basis with my show on ESPN with Skip Bayless on "First Take" and beyond with all things ESPN, you have of a license when you're sitting in this chair to make sure you speak clearly and cogently and articulate yourself appropriately.

What I got in trouble for is that I misspoke. You understand? I uttered the word provoke. And people ran away with that because they thought I was saying that a woman brings that upon themselves. And that's not what I was trying to say.

So in the end, what I have learned is that, slow down. Take a deep breath. Make sure that people understand clearly what you are trying to say. And in the event that you fail to do so, you got to man up and accept accountability with everything that you do.

In this particular situation, I had to do that. But let's not confuse the two. I misspoke. I have never put my hands on a woman. So I don't look at myself as having to go through training and sensitivity classes and all of this other stuff. I have always had that sensitivity. And I have countless women who can validate that.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Right. I don't think people thought you had an issue with domestic violence. But there's always a learning experience.

(CROSSTALK)

SMITH: Sure.

LEMON: And thank you didn't run away. Thank you, Stephen A.

SMITH: No problem.

LEMON: I appreciate it.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Fascinating conversation. Great to listen in.

All right, let's build on this.

We want to bring in Clinton Portis. He's a former Washington Redskin, and he and Ray Rice were rival start running backs on the field and they were friendly off it. Clinton, thanks so much for being here.

CLINTON PORTIS, FORMER NFL PLAYER: No problem. Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: Is it fair to categorize your relationship with Ray Rice as friendly?

PORTIS: I would look to call us friendly. But before you say friendly, let's make it clear at no point am I condoning Ray Rice or any other man to putting his hands on a woman.

CAMEROTA: Yes, yes, of course, of course. But the reason that I wanted to clarify that was because maybe you can help us understand what we see in that video, because we have heard from lots of people that Ray Rice was a good guy. And then what we see in the video is so deplorable, not just the fistfight, not just the punch, where he swings at her and connects and knocks her out, but then what happens afterwards, where he doesn't comfort her. He doesn't go for help.

He drags her body out of the elevator like a sack of potatoes. He leaves her there. How do you explain what you see on this video, knowing him?

PORTIS: I wouldn't try to explain it. I have never met that Ray Rice. That's best way that I could possibly explain it.

And I don't know the man that I saw in the elevator. The Ray Rice that I know is a fun-loving guy, a guy dedicated to the community, a guy dedicated to the DMV, a guy that you can always find in New Jersey in his hometown. So, the Ray Rice that I know is a totally different guy from what I have seen on that elevator.

CAMEROTA: Do you believe the NFL when they say they tried, they tried to get that video? They asked the prosecutors. They asked the police. They asked the casino that you see there. And that they couldn't get their hand on the video to ever watch it?

PORTIS: It's hard to believe that.

And if they never have -- saw that video, we have seen the aftermath of the video months ago. So you already knew there was a video from the elevator. With that being said, the NFL has a lot of power and can get their hands on whatever they need to get their hands on.

Coming into the draft, throughout the league, the NFL investigates you extensively to find out everything you possibly have done from middle school, high school, through college, and everybody you associate yourself with, as we have seen brought up in the DeSean Jackson case.

If you can find out DeSean Jackson is friends with gang members, how could you not go to a casino and get elevator evidence?

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: You make such a good -- yes, you make a great point about the vetting. They're good at vetting. That's their job. So how do you explain why they wouldn't have seen this video until today?

PORTIS: You can't explain it. It's hard to explain. You think of the NFL and you think of the NFL, when you look at that shield and the protection of the NFL and everybody that is held accountable in the NFL, all of the players for -- when you look at fines, you look at everything that players are held accountable for, you want the NFL to be accountable for their actions as well.

So, when you say, how did the Baltimore Ravens, who invested millions of dollars in Ray Rice not see this video, how did the NFL, who's taken a big hit and blame for not punishing Ray Rice, only giving Ray Rice two games in July, and the video surfaces two months later, you have all of a sudden changed your domestic violence policy behind this.

So it is hard that you don't go out and get the evidence that that's really going to clear your name up and out of the way early.

CAMEROTA: Clinton, as you know, Ray Rice has been suspended indefinitely by the NFL. Was that the right punishment?

PORTIS: I don't think Ray Rice should get the death penalty. I just sat and listened to Stephen A., and I had wrote down -- wrote down those same exact names. When you think of Leonard Little, you think of Donte Stallworth, Michael Vick, you think of Plaxico Burress, Adam Jones, guys who've gotten second chances and made the most of them, you have to say this is not a common trend from Ray Rice.

So, with those guys being able to come back and take advantage of their second chance, if Ray Rice goes out and complete the necessary requirements, I think he should be let back in the NFL. But, again, at 28, everyone feels like the running back position is diminishing. So, it is going to be hard to find a team that wants to pay Ray Rice just because of his age, let alone coming in with a domestic violence charge.

CAMEROTA: Right. Right.

Clinton Portis, great to get your perspective tonight. Thanks so much for joining us.

PORTIS: No problem. Thanks for having me.

LEMON: Very good interview. He made some really good points.

CAMEROTA: He did.

LEMON: And some of the same points that Stephen A. made about the age and what happens.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

And stick around, because up next, we have an exclusive interview with Robin Givens. As you know, she survived domestic abuse and now she helps other families get past violence. Also, Janay Rice calls her situation a nightmare. But is actually not

referring to the abuse. She is talking about the media. So, you will hear one expert say that we actually have to talk about it.

Plus, families in financial peril. Suze Orman is going to be here. She has advice for anybody taking out a student loan. You have to hear this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Welcome back, everyone.

Here's a staggering number. The National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, it was conducted in 2010, and it found that 32 percent of women are physically assaulted by a partner during their lifetime.

We're joined now by actress Robin Givens, who says that she was a victim of domestic abuse at the hands of her ex-husband boxer Mike Tyson. She's now an activist for survivors of domestic abuse and she joins us exclusively tonight.

Robin, it's great to see you. Thanks so much for joining us.

ROBIN GIVENS, ACTRESS: Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: You have walked in Janay Rice's shoes. What has been your reaction to watching this tape and the aftermath today?

GIVENS: Well, it is startling, isn't it? It is deeply upsetting when you see it, appalling, if you will.

I do think it's wonderful that so many people have seemed to stand up and also be upset and appalled by what they have seen.

CAMEROTA: Yes, strength in numbers.

You say that you were in an abusive relationship with your ex-husband, boxer Mike Tyson. Let me play for the viewers an interview that you gave to Barbara Walters back in 1988 where you touched on that abuse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIVENS: He shakes. He pushes. He swings. Sometimes, I think he is trying to scare me. There are times when -- or there were times when it happened when I thought I was -- I could handle it. You know? And just recently, I have become afraid, I mean, very, very much afraid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Robin, what do you think when you hear yourself from back then?

GIVENS: Well, quite honestly, it's hard to even hear it.

When I hear you say I say I was in an abusive relationship, I have had my ex-husband say to an author that the best punch he ever threw was against me. I have had him sit -- he sat in an interview with Oprah Winfrey and talked about knocking me around.

So, this is something that, quite honestly, even when I see this tape, it really brings up some difficult memories for me. It is not only my words. It is really the experience that lives quite deep in you that is hard to get rid of.

CAMEROTA: Of course. Of course, which is why it is so important for everyone to hear from you tonight, because you were married during that interview with Barbara Walters. Why hadn't you left him?

GIVENS: Well, I think the -- to wrap your mind around what somebody is feeling is difficult. I know that when I have gone out and spoken to women and I have had people, a lot of women say thank you for coming to speak to me, and I used to say, thank you, because part of my understanding what I was feeling what was going on for me, I did when I listened to their stories.

Their story was my story. My story was their story. You really feel like you want to help. You really feel look you have done something wrong. You really feel like you can control what is happening. And then one day you realize you cannot control this.

But this is something that happens quite often. I think for us to see this visual is -- I don't want to say it's important. But you and I are having this conversation. And the world and America gets to have this conversation. In that respect, it has become very important to us all.

CAMEROTA: And I do want to talk about that, because Janay Rice today put out a statement on her Instagram. And she basically talked about how she feels traumatized.

She said, let me read to you -- "To make us relive a moment in our lives that we regret every day is a horrible thing. To take something away from the man I love that he has worked his ass off for all of his life just to gain ratings is horrific. This is our life!"

Basically, she is talking to the media there. She feels traumatized not by the abuse that we saw, but by the media. And is it fair that we are all talking about her life? Does that outweigh the fact that she is having to relive this experience over again?

GIVENS: I won't sit here and try to speak for her. It's hard enough to speak for myself and what she is feeling.

I find it hard to believe that any woman that has been knocked out by a man -- a similar thing happened to me. I was awakened by a doorman putting me over -- carrying me out of an apartment over his shoulder. Of course you are traumatized.

Is it traumatic to watch it play out with everybody watching? Of course. Is it difficult? Yes. Do you wonder how -- you don't know whether to protect the person you love or stand up? I think it is all very difficult. I can't speak for her. I have spoken with a lot of women. I have been in the situation. And

I think you don't know up from down. I mean, I am sitting here with you right now, 20-something years later, and it becomes like yesterday. It's difficult to process.

So, I think probably what you are hearing from myself, from her, from a lot of women that this happened to is the difficulty that they have kind of sorting out their feelings.

CAMEROTA: Robin, there are millions of women who go through this every year. And we should mention that there are men also, by the way, who are victims of abuse, obviously to a lesser degree.

What is your message to them tonight?

GIVENS: Well, first of all, first and foremost, it is not your fault. It isn't -- there is nothing you could say. There is no dress too short. There's nothing you could have said differently. It is never your fault.

And there is always somebody that you can go to, whether it's domestic violence hot line that I work with, the YWCA, such a big supporter of women and their rights, domestic violence. I have to say that one of the things that I think, I think people by nature are very, very good. And I think that as the media is playing this out, I think part of it, everybody is so shocked to actually see this, to see a woman who is small in stature.

There is nothing you can really do to protect yourself. I think that's what's so difficult for the media or the world to wrap their minds around. And I think one of the things I think is so wonderful, because I have always believed this as I discuss this issue with different people -- it is when men begin to stand up and say, this is unacceptable. And this is absolutely wrong. And we will never accept this.

I think it moves the conversation along and moves us in the right direction.

CAMEROTA: Well, we are trying to do that tonight.

GIVENS: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And we really appreciate your personal story and you sharing it with us. Again, Robin Givens, thanks so much for being with us.

GIVENS: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

LEMON: And current and former players are starting to stand up and voice their opinions about this.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

LEMON: The question is, did the NFL know that the elevator video existed showing Ray Rice punching Janay and knocking her out? The league is under fire for its handling of this case. And some are calling for commissioner Roger Goodell to resign. We are going to get into that when we come right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The NFL and Commissioner Roger Goodell are being blasted for their handling of the Ray Rice case. The key questions: what did they know, and of course, when did they know it?

Joining me now is Pellom McDaniels. He is a third -- Pellom McDaniels is a former NFL player who's now an assistant professor at Emory University. Also Mel Robbins, CNN commentator and legal analyst, and David Cornwell, sports attorney with Gordon & Reece. Good to see all of you.

Roger Goodell broke his silence today, speaking with CBS News. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOODELL: We had not seen any videotape of what occurred in the elevator. We assumed that there was a video. We asked for video. But we were never granted that opportunity.

O'DONNELL: The question becomes, did the NFL drop the ball? Or was the NFL willfully ignorant about what was on this tape?

GOODELL: Well, we certainly didn't know what was on the tape. But we have been very openly honest. And I have also, from two weeks ago, when I acknowledged that we didn't get this right. That's my responsibility. And I'm accountable for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Mel Robbins, knowing you, I know you have a strong opinion about this. What's your reaction? Can Roger Goodell survive this? Should he survive this?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR: He shouldn't survive it. First of all, he just lied to America when he said he didn't know what was on the tape. He knew exactly what was on the tape. He knew that Ray Rice had punched Janay. He knew that she was knocked unconscious, because they saw it in the other tape. And it's what they stipulated to in the record, Don.

If he had wanted to see it, he would have pushed for the tape. The truth of the matter is he didn't want to see it. He wanted to get back to football. Based on the mishandling of this, as far as I'm concerned, the NFL has also abused Janay Rice. He needs to go, Don.

LEMON: David.

DAVID CORNWELL, SPORTS ATTORNEY: No. But I have to say full disclosure. Roger is a friend of mine. We worked together for years in the league office. He has admitted two weeks ago that they got it wrong. We all know

from seeing the tape in the elevator that they got it wrong. It was a mistake to know that there was evidence out there, and -- give out discipline without having seen all the evidence. It wasn't a thorough investigation. He has admitted that.

But absolutely not. He does not have to lose his job.

LEMON: Here's what the casino lawyer says. The lawyer says that Ray Rice's own attorney had the tape. Now I don't understand how they didn't have it. If he had asked his attorney to see the tape.

Here's what the casino said in a statement: "Revel cooperated fully with the investigation, giving the tape to the Atlantic City Police, Atlantic County Prosecutor's Office, the Division of Gaming Enforcement, and Ray Rice's own attorneys."

So, how can he not see the tape? All he had to do was ask.

CORNWELL: It's negligence. It's negligence not to ask. They dropped the ball. There's no way you can defend it.

But at the same time, saying that doesn't necessarily mean, or follow -- it doesn't necessarily follow that he should be fired. I just don't think that we can make that leap.

They made a mistake. Absolutely. You cannot defend it.

LEMON: Pellom, do you want to get in on this before I move on?

PELLOM MCDANIELS, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Yes. I think it's interesting. As mentioned earlier, the resources the NFL uses when they're evaluating players, whether or not they want to draft them or even put them in the league.

And there is something said about their affiliation with potential gang members, or what have you. So it is interesting that the -- the tape would not have been -- would not have been, had access to it earlier on.

You know, one of the things I'm also paying attention to, is how we're losing Janay in the conversation. It's about domestic violence. And the system that allows for a woman, a black woman in particular to be abused the way she's abused and to have her image and the act on a loop.

There was one particular news station that said that, you know, maybe next time she should take the stairs. And that's not discussed. And I think that there's something really disgusting how we avoid talking about this idea of domestic violence in our country.

LEMON: I think you bring up a very good point. And that is the focus of the next segment after this break. But I'm going to stick to this segment.

And by the way, we are using the tape selectively. We're not using it as wallpaper video. If we're talking about it specifically, we'll show it.

And it's good to get your insight as a former player. But I want to know from you, David, as someone who represents people who are in professional sports -- NBA, the NFL -- do these incidents happen or similar incidents -- in the NFL, or in professional sports -- and we just don't know about them?

CORNWELL: No. And that's why the discipline was severe and appropriately severe. Ray Rice didn't -- doesn't deserve to wear the NFL uniform at this time. And if he did, he would disgrace current players, former players, and future players.

LEMON: Should he be allowed to come back?

CORNWELL: I think -- I think there's a point at which -- he should at least petition to return, but he has to demonstrate first sufficient remorse.

LEMON: OK.

CORNWELL: Second, he has to demonstrate conduct between now and then that indicates he should have the privilege of playing.

But to the point about Janay. When Ray Rice isn't playing...

LEMON: Can we take this -- David, because we're going to talk about Janay at length in our next segment. Just quickly, before we go to break, Mel, if you can, should he be allowed to come back?

ROBBINS: I actually agree that, after a certain period of time, that he should be allowed to petition, and if he has gone through counseling and if Janay is agreeable, then yes, if there are certain things that are -- that are on the table, they should allow him to appeal this.

LEMON: All right.

CAMEROTA: All right. Stick around, everyone. Because Janay Rice's angry statement on Instagram, we'll read it. She calls this whole thing a nightmare for her family. And she's pointing the finger of blame, not at her husband.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Janay Rice is sticking by her husband and blaming the media for the firestorm. We're back with Pellom McDaniels, Mel Robbins and David Cornwell.

Guys, I want to read to you the Instagram message that she put out this morning, talking about how this has become a nightmare for her. She says, "To make us relive a moment in our lives that we regret every day is a horrible thing. To take something away from the man I love that he has worked his ass off for all his life just to gain ratings is horrific. This is our life!"

Mel, let me start with you. Are we inadvertently traumatizing her by making her relive this, just because we believe that it's an important topic to talk about?

ROBBINS: Yes. We absolutely are. In fact, you know, she has been failed by so many people, Alisyn. First her husband for causing the abuse. Second the NFL for so mishandling this from start to finish, starting with not suspending him immediately, then interviewing her in front of him.

She was failed by the Ravens when they forced her to go to a press conference where she apologizes for her role in this. It goes on and on and on.

And for Goodell to be backed into a corner by TMZ and only then come out with the bazooka aimed at Ray Rice, he fails her again. I mean, I just...

CAMEROTA: I mean, you're the person who said it's important that we watch this video and that we show it to our daughters and that we show it to our sons and that we talk about it.

ROBBINS: Absolutely, Alisyn. But I have been getting all day long, based on the piece that I wrote on CNN, people talking about Janay and the choices she made to stay with him. There is so much victim blaming going on.

And I don't think anybody understand for a second that the two people that are responsible for the traumatizing of Janay Brown are her husband, Ray Rice, and the NFL, who colossally screwed up the way that they handled this. And by only doing the punishment now because they're forced to, because of what TMZ did, they are re-traumatizing her.

Does Ray Rice deserve to get this punishment? Absolutely. Does Janay Brown -- does Janay Rice deserve better? You better believe she does.

CAMEROTA: David, give me your thoughts on whether or not this was a colossal screw-up by the NFL and if -- if she's just caught in the crossfire of all this?

CORNWELL: I sympathize for her. And I refuse to judge her. Whatever she feels, I feel support for her.

This is a very difficult situation. And I'm not sure that the media is able to capture the nuance. But the more severe the discipline on Ray, we end up punishing Janay again. Because if he can't make a living, he can't support her. So if she wants to...

CAMEROTA: Doesn't he have a massive contract that will survive this? Doesn't he have a multimillion-dollar contract? And does that go away with the suspension, also?

CORNWELL: No. He was waived by the Ravens. He does not have a contract. The only thing he has...

(CROSSTALK)

CORNWELL: Well, he, you know, first of all, the only money that he has is the money that he earned. And if he got a signing bonus, there's a chance that the last three years of it, which would be $9 million or $15 million, would be forfeited. So it's not clear at all that -- that, he -- he has the money.

But whatever he has or whatever he doesn't make is going to impact the woman who thought she was marrying a professional football player that was going to make $30 million. So, I am very concerned about the impact on her.

CAMEROTA: Pellom, your thoughts?

MCDANIELS: Yes, I think there's a degree of politics that we, aren't necessarily avoiding, but we don't understand. So within this -- the context of their family within this African-American community, she's going to try to protect him. Because she knows how she may appear to the community that they're from. And at the same time try to maintain some sense of a family or support for him. So it's very complex. It's not an easy set of equations to actually figure this out.

You know, part of what we have to understand, too, is that, again, thinking in terms of media, and we're talking about this, it's important to talk about domestic violence. It's important to talk about advocacy and programs that can educate. And I think the NFL would be the perfect, now, organization to promote it.

But at the same time, the more we talk about her, and not talk about domestic violence as a whole, we keep her as our focal point.

CAMEROTA: All right, guys. Thanks so much for the conversation. We'll be right back.

ROBBINS: Thanks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back to CNN TONIGHT. What's in your wallet, America? The divide between the haves and have-nots has never been greater in this country. So who better to talk to than Suze Orman, the woman you trust with your financial questions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Joining us now is Suze Orman, host of CNBC's "Suze Orman Show." The Suze Orman is here. Thank you for joining us.

You know, you're one of those people we know from your voice. You have a very recognizable voice.

SUZE ORMAN, HOST, CNBC'S "SUZE ORMAN SHOW": You know, it's true. I can have a hat on and sunglasses and be out, and as soon as I start speaking, somebody goes, "Where is she?"

LEMON: Yes, right.

ORMAN: So yes, it is.

LEMON: So what -- what does your voice say about where we are now with the recovery? Because it has been, what, five years?

ORMAN: It's been five -- well, it's been a long time to tell you the truth. It's been -- you know, it started in 2008. And here we are, almost 2015, which I happened to say right on CNN here, many years ago.

Here's what I say: real estate has recovered, and it's doing well. Your 401(k)s, the stock market, great at this point. Everybody is feeling better. Credit has loosened up. People are able to get loans again. So overall, I think we're doing just fine.

LEMON: But there's big talk about income inequality. Everyone is doing just fine. But it also depends on where you are, how well you're doing, correct?

ORMAN: I will be the first to tell you that the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, and there is no middle class anymore.

But given that, we're at least coming, you know, around so forth. You know, when people get into poverty today, they're called stickies. And I've always said there's a highway into a poverty. There's not even a sidewalk out, today, Don.

But if you look at the overall situation, we're doing better.

LEMON: Yes. This is back-to-school season. A lot of people are sending their kids for the first time to college. And I think that -- you believe that college students aren't -- we aren't looking out for college students, because they're racking up debt. But parents are racking up debt. What's going on?

ORMAN: What's going on is that, for a student to go to a university -- to attend a college, they need money. Parents don't have the money to give them anymore. So they have to borrow money.

The kids, they borrow money. And any student loan money is not dischargeable in bankruptcy. So the students aren't guided as to how much money they should borrow, how should they pay it back, when is -- when are they borrowing too much money? They don't know.

LEMON: Well, you can do bankruptcy. I can do it on -- I can do it on my mortgage. I can do it on IRS debt.

ORMAN: You can do it on every single debt in the United States.

LEMON: Why not on student loans?

ORMAN: Because -- I don't even know. Suze Orman doesn't have an answer to that. Suze Orman can't tell you why have we targeted the future of America and make them pay a higher interest rates on their student loans than you can buy a house for, a car for/ Why have we made it so they can't discharge a student loan in bankruptcy? Why are we protecting banks that give private student loans, and you take the interest rate to anything, and they still can't discharge it?

LEMON: I want to listen -- I want you to listen to what John Oliver said about this on Sunday night.

ORMAN: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN OLIVER, HOST, "LAST WEEK TONIGHT WITH JOHN OLIVER": Essentially student debt is like HPV. If you go off to college, you're almost certainly going to get it. And if you do, it will follow you for the rest of your life. Because, legally, student debt is a special kind of debt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: This idea that it's worth it to take out a student loan, and then you're going to, you know, get a good job. And you're going to be able to pay for it. Doesn't happen anymore.

ORMAN: It happens if you take out the correct amount of a student loan. Here's your guidelines.

Do not take out more of a student loan for all four years of college than you are going to earn your first year out of college. So if you're going to earn $40,000 that first year of college, do not take more than $40,000 of a student loan in totality. If you do, you're going to have a lot of trouble paying it back.

LEMON: I guess -- I had no idea when I was in college. I thought I wanted to be a journalist, and then I said, "Oh, I want to be an attorney like my dad" and all those things. But many students don't know when they're starting out and they're taking out these loans how much money they're going to make.

ORMAN: And then the question is, is it really necessary to go directly from high school into college?

LEMON: To college.

ORMAN: If you don't know what you want to be, all right, go to community college. All right, take two years off and make some money. And decide what do you think you want to be and save that money and then go to school. You can go to vocational college. You can do many things today, but do not get yourself into a whole lot of student loan debt just to become a baker.

LEMON: There are people who believe that it's not -- going to college is not necessarily relevant any more. You don't need to do it.

ORMAN: I think you still do need to eventually go to college. One of the first questions is "Do you have a college education?"

So the key here, though, is, Don, a college will never make you. You make the college. You don't have to go to a $100,000 school. You can go to one that's $20,000 and still be as successful.

LEMON: And you know, I should have said it, because the former labor secretary, Robert Reich, posted an op-ed on Salon.com, and you can put it up on the screen. I won't read all of it. But essentially saying the same thing, that overall, you don't really have to go to college these days. But you believe differently, as the...

ORMAN: College isn't just about the degree and what you learn. College is also about the people you meet.

LEMON: Right.

ORMAN: Being away from your family and becoming independent. In many circumstances, although many students need to live at home, because they can't afford to live on campus.

LEMON: So along the way -- you learn things, right? I remember listening to, to -- Joan Rivers. And she would say with age comes wisdom, right?

ORMAN: Yes.

LEMON: So what have you learned about money? Because you, you've been talking about it for your entire career.

ORMAN: Yes.

LEMON: But people learn things incrementally over -- just over the last year, what have you learned?

ORMAN: I've learned that what you have can never define who you are. That while money is important, who you are and how you feel about yourself is worth far more than all the money could ever buy.

LEMON: Thank you. It's always a pleasure.

ORMAN: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you so much.

ORMAN: All right.

LEMON: Suze Orman, thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)