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Dr. Drew
Woman Gives IV To Passed Out Teen?; Pair Allegedly Met On Craigslist; Husband Kept Wife as Sex Slave?; Janay Rice Spoke Out Today on Instagram
Aired September 09, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, a Craigslist marriage made in hell. The man is charged with keeping his wife as a sex slave. She says she
loves him. Police say he locked her in chains.
Plus, this woman is accused of posting a teen drinking party and giving an underage girl an IV instead of calling 911 when she passed out. Let`s get
started.
Good evening. Samantha Shocker is here with me as my co-host and coming up, Ray Rice`s wife fights back, Sam.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST: That`s right, Dr. Drew. She is defending her husband and get this, attack media.
PINSKY: Of course, that`s an easy target. Well, we`ll see, but first, this woman. Right here, she is in jail tonight. Police say she hosted a
drinking party for underage teens during which a 14-year-old became sick from alcohol, passed out.
She then is accused of hooking the unconscious girl up to intravenous fluids, an IV, throwing her in the shower and never calling 911. Joining
us to discuss, Anahita Sedaghatfar, Karamo Brown, host of #ownshow at oprah.com and Danielle Robay, TV host, reporter.
Sam, tell me about this woman`s social profile.
SCHACHER: OK, so we looked at her Facebook page, Dr. Drew. She is 37 years old. She claims to have worked as a nurse. She seems to be -- we
have no idea, Dr. Drew.
All that we know is some of these comments that she does have some experience being a nurse. She also told the police that she worked as a
nurse. But she got remarried last year.
Her cover photo on her Facebook page is of her and Alice Cooper. She definitely rather obsessed with heavy metal music because the majority of
her pictures like you see here are of her at heavy metal concerts.
PINSKY: Karamo, you have teenage children. What if one of them showed up, forget the fact that they went to a party where adults were serving liquor.
They got sick and then the adult with some sort of medical training suspect treats the guy, treats your son.
KARAMO BROWN, HOST, #OWNSHOW, OPRAH.COM: Yes, I would go to that house and I would find that mother and it would not be a pretty site. I`m not going
to say that I would do anything violent, but it would get really bad very quickly.
Because what this mother did is despicable. You have a child here and you call yourself a nurse or whatever you do with the medical field and you
said that you were going to treat a child instead of getting her proper medical help and even calling her parents. I hope that she goes to jail
for 10 years -- for 20 years.
PINSKY: Danielle?
DANIELLE ROBAY, TV HOST AND REPORTER: First of all, I don`t understand whether she is a nurse or not, why does she have an IV in her household?
PINSKY: Great question, totally agree with that. What the hell?
ROBAY: What the hell? And also I think at the end of the day, it`s sad because this 12-year-old or 14-year-old girl is not going to have a mother
for a period of time and she clearly had terrible, terrible judgement.
PINSKY: The other girl, I see. The girl whose mom was having a party. Anahita, how do you defend this woman? She gives a poor child first
alcohol secondly IV drug, IV something, IV therapies and then doesn`t get her proper medical care.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, T.V. LEGAL ANALYST/DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, she`s going to say there were no damages. The girl wasn`t harmed. That she was
fine. She was able to get up the next day and walk home and Dr. Drew, if you were my expert physician on this case, I would ask you, Doctor, is it
not true if she went to the emergency room, this is same type of treatment that this girl would get? She would be given an I.V., correct?
PINSKY: She could be getting a banana bag, which is IV fluid resuscitation, thiamine, magnesium, maybe B12, other sorts of multivitamins
to try to resuscitate what was depleted by the alcohol. If she`s unconscious, you can easily aspirate or stop breathing. The other thing
that would happen is you get an assessment to make sure that she wasn`t going to die, which she could easily.
SCHACHER: This was not her decision to make. She should have called 911. She should have called the parents. She is so lucky that this girl is OK
or otherwise, she may have a murder charge against her. She would have blood on her hands.
PINSKY: Hold on. Counsel, what about that?
SEDAGHATFAR: Obviously her judgment was terrible, Dr. Drew, and she`s lucky the girl survived because she would be charged with murder or
manslaughter. But ultimately, nothing happened to this girl. You just said on the stand, Dr. Drew, that you would have given her the I.V. anyway.
No harm here.
PINSKY: Danielle, you wanted to say something.
ROBAY: I think this is indicative of something I saw a lot growing up where parents, they want their kids to be popular and they have poor
judgment and they can`t say no.
PINSKY: They want their kids to be popular and the parents want to be popular -- Karamo.
BROWN: Anahita, I`m going to say you kept saying there is no damage to this little girl. There is a lot of mental damage that this little girl
has to go through. The fact that she was at a party under age and had this woman do this to her? There is damage there. So I want to talk about
this.
PINSKY: Not only that. I`ll let you answer that.
SEDAGHATFAR: Obviously I`m saying there was no physical harm.
PINSKY: I agree with Karamo. And although Sam has partaken of these I.V. therapies --
SCHACHER: I knew you would bring that up.
PINSKY: I will discuss that after the break.
But the one thing that drives me insane about all this. Not so much the one that Sam did, but the guys with rolling E.R.s in Las Vegas where they
give the banana bags to alcoholic stuporous people and then kind of send them on their way.
As opposed to getting them treated for their alcoholism. At least referring them for their alcohol treatment. So next, we`ll tell you what
else we`ve learned from this woman`s Facebook page and her posts.
We`ll also learn the interesting story about Sam and her I.V. therapies. And later, Ray Rice`s wife fights back. She lashes out at everyone but not
him. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Do you put a foreign body into someone`s vein? There are complications that can occur. I`ve seen phlebitis that go into the heart
for God sakes. It is one thing if these people are needing intravenous fluids and some thiamine because they`ve had so much alcohol that they are
being repleted and they should be hospitalized for their alcoholism right after they get the IV fluid.
Welcome back. We`re discussing a woman who allegedly gave a 14-year-old an I.V. after the teenager had passed out from drinking excessively. And Sam
--
SCHACHER: Yes?
PINSKY: I know you`ve done things like this. Let me review again what can happen. You can get an infection in the vein where you put the cannula.
You can have the infection move to your heart and it can cause endocarditis on the valve. You can give the wrong fluids.
SCHACHER: OK, you`re making it sound like that I`m liking hooking myself to an IV while I`m like in my bedroom or hotel room. I`m at a spa. I was
at a spa and then a nurse put it in me to give me more energy. I felt great and I`m sorry, Dr. Drew, I`ll be in Vegas next week.
If I see one of those mobile things roll by and I have a few drinks the night before, you`d better believe I`m going to tell them to hook me up.
PINSKY: Thankfully, I`ve got an entire team here behaviour specialist, starting with Jena Kravitz, a clinical psychologist, Wendy Walsh,
psychologist, author of "The 30-day Love Detox" and Jennifer, life coach.
All right, Sam, listen, Wendy, what would you say to Sam and her plan to get more energy from I.V. fluids?
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: I would drink slower and drink a lot more water in between --
SCHACHER: First of all, hold, Wendy, let`s not paint the picture that Sam is out partying like a crazy person.
PINSKY: You`ll see whether that`s real or not. That`s all I`m saying.
SCHACHER: That`s OK, Dr. Drew. Let`s not put that out there because I rarely go out -- I`m at a spa.
PINSKY: Relax. Let me ask, Jenna, then, of a mom trying to be a friend to their child and the children pick friends rather than being a parent?
JENA KRAVITZ, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, my first thought when I saw this, was this woman also intoxicated? Was she partying with the kids?
When I was growing up though, I knew a lot of parents who actually had this stance where they were OK with their teenagers drinking and smoking
marijuana in the home and not on the street and kind of supported that.
I don`t know what these kids are doing at 14. I was like perfecting my backward skate at 14. These kids seemed to be doing things that we didn`t
do back then. So I don`t know that this woman was necessarily trying to be friendly. I do think there is some motivation to like be popular or
likable with the kids, which is a whole other bag of issue.
PINSKY: And Jennifer, although I`m not suggesting everyone needs to do a double sour cow. I am suggesting that when you that message to children,
this idea that you can do it here, but not here, but do it in the home. That has horrible outcome. That is extremely clear about that, you have
very clear boundaries in the home.
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: I agree with you 100 percent. You know, the interesting thing -- I`m really perplexed by her motivation to go and get
an IV when the child passed out. That wouldn`t even be my first train of thought. I think it speaks to the fact that she knew what was going on was
way out of control, way out of her hands.
Out of control and wrong, absolutely wrong. I don`t know that it is a matter of her wanting to be cool, but I think that she really knew exactly
what she was doing because to go get an I.V. immediately before you call 911, before you call her parents, that speaks to motivation for me.
PINSKY: Agree. Sam.
SCHACHER: Yes, I think she`s in self-preservation mode, 100 percent, Jennifer. I agree with you. She feared what the repercussions would be.
She only thought of herself and again she is so lucky that that girl is -- or trying to act like a pro. I know it all of this happens to us all the
time.
PINSKY: Wendy, I just thought of another layer to the story I`ve not thought about, which is more on the order of know where your kids are.
Here is something this woman posted on Facebook, right?
It says most of you have known me since childhood or a long time now and know that I suffer from very much from severe depression and have severe
self-esteem issues.
Wendy, in a way it is a case for checking the social media sites of the parents where you send your kids?
WALSH: Listen. When my kids were little, the school ran a little meeting to explain to us how to keep our kids safe at other people`s houses and not
being afraid to ask, do you have a gun? Do you have a swimming pool? Is it locked? How often is it locked?
Do you have a dog, a pit bull or whatever? Asking these kinds of questions where you have to get in these sticky situations. And I think as
teenagers, we have to also think about what the parents are into. It is a whole other thing at that point.
PINSKY: All right, Sam? Go ahead, Jennifer.
KEITT: We got this whole thing with teenagers, right? This girl was 14. In my mind, that is a baby. That`s pre-adolescent. Can we make sure we`re
clear on that?
PINSKY: This is really out of line behavior. Sam, I`ll give you the last word by giving you a little grief.
SCHACHER: No. It is all good. I`m going to get hooked up to an I.V. again. I liked it. It gave me energy.
PINSKY: I heard there is one of those organizations moving into the neighborhood here. Enjoy. It`s a free country.
Next up, Craigslist brought a husband and wife together. The problem is she seemed to be advertising to be a sex slave? Wait until you see. This
this is unbelievable.
Later, you`ll hear from Ray Rice`s wife and the husband about the videotape punch in the face. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Beyond the brick and mortar, houses a sex slave dungeon where prosecutors claimed Kenneth Harden, imprisoned and sexually abused and
tortured a woman. She told police she met him online last year through Craigslist.
He said he was a Godly man. They soon married. And then Hardin revealed to her he`s a sadist. What started out as experimentation in the bedroom
escalated into abuse. Not only would he lead her around on a collar, prosecutors say he would force her head and hands into a wooden box after
her child went to school. There were times he would duct tape her and tie her up all day.
Back with Sam, Anahita, Karamo and Danielle. That 32-year-old man who reportedly met this woman on Craigslist, he is held on 38 counts of rape,
battery and criminal confinement. Sam, another Craigslist hook up, and a lovely one at that.
SCHACHER: Don`t forget, Dr. Drew, he is Godly man.
PINSKY: Of course, she was, too.
SCHACHER: Of course. And after all these stories of Craigslist, I wouldn`t touch it with ten-foot pole. But I have all the details right
here. He reportedly posted a personal ad on Craigslist.
He talked about the challenges of being a single dad and troubles with meeting women. The ad caught the woman`s eye. She was a recent divorcee
looking for a, quote, "Godly man," which he met. They met in July 2013, talked about the Bible. She was swept off her feet and they were married
soon after.
And according to these court documents, Dr. Drew, over the next 12 months, not only did he reveal he was a sadist, he also reportedly forced her to
sign a sex slave contract.
PINSKY: Yes. Pay attention, everybody because this is what 50 shades of gray would look like in reality.
SCHACHER: Not even close! That`s such an unfair comparison.
PINSKY: What are you talking about? This is exactly the same thing.
SCHACHER: This is abuse.
PINSKY: What is it in 50 shades of gray, for crying out loud?
SCHACHER: I know you read the first book and you want your time back.
PINSKY: I want my time back.
SCHACHER: But guess what, those two were consensual.
PINSKY: OK. Here`s the court document. The victim came up, Counselor, with a laminated binder with the title, sex slave manual 2014. No! She
reportedly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is what I`m supposed to live by every day and I`m tired of the abuse. I`m tired of getting hit every day. Please, I`m
scared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: However, now she`s had enough of it. But when she was, what`s the guy`s name in 50 shades of gray?
SCHACHER: Christian Gray.
PINSKY: We`ll call this guy Christian. When Christian convinced her to sign the document, they both signed it consensually. Can somebody sign up
to be a sex slave? Wait a minute. So that book is fictional.
WALSH: This is a joke. This is not a contract, a binding contract by any means. And this poor lady, she suffers from battered women syndrome. When
I read the police report, why didn`t you leave your husband? Because I loved him. I wanted to make him happy. Despite the rape, the torture, the
abuse so this is a real psychological --
PINSKY: Of course, of course it is. But Danielle, go ahead.
ROBAY: I think that there are a hundred reasons that women go back to their abusers. Humiliation, guilt, love even. But these women are
mentally broken down. So it is a cycle of violence and actually, women go back to their abusers seven to eight time on average before they actually
leave.
PINSKY: That`s absolutely correct.
ROBAY: They are broken down. To say they wanted it, that`s crazy.
PINSKY: No. Systematic coercion control. Karamo, I know the social work that you`ve dealt with this, but before you comment, I`m going to show you
on this 11-page court document. The slave manual contained the slave chores, the slave role, the slave bedroom color, the slave`s atonement and
punishments regardless of hell. The victim told police this was just their lifestyle. They were just both into this. Their sort of sexual practices,
what are you going to do?
BROWN: Dr. Drew, I have to tell you right now that I empathize for anybody who is a domestic abuse of relationship. I don`t think this is the case
here. I think this is a BDSM relationship that went too far though.
They both agree to it. I am very well versed in people who are in BDFs and relationship and there is sometimes a dominant and submissive. In this
case, there was a dominance --
PINSKY: Karamo, hold on. Let`s just -- I love your point of view and I think it`s fascinating. I got to lean on this one because I got to hit my
head around it. But let`s remind ourselves, this guy controlled her insulin and told her he was giving her life because he would have hold it
and put her into coma if she didn`t behave herself. She had a collar that he would twist and make her go unconscious and see --
BROWN: And we also do not know if she was a (masochist). Like that`s a big piece of this is that -- she is a victim now.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I`m going to take Karamo`s position for a second. What he is saying is she agreed to all this. She may have been a trauma survivor,
which is why she was attracted to it and when he went too far, the trauma was activated in her head and she distorted the whole thing and it was not
OK anymore.
WALSH: Criminal at that point. She was injured. She had cigarette burns all over her body. It is a brainwashing. They know how to pick their
victims.
BROWN: I don`t think that she was a victim. They both signed the contract.
WALSH: On Craigslist! She was a vulnerable woman.
SCHACHER: She was not forced.
PINSKY: I want the quiet one. Danielle, what`s the woman name in 50 shades of gray?
ROBAY: I love that you take the opposite position. But I think that it sexualize the abuse. She is obviously a victim here. And by taking that
position, you`re almost re-victimizing her.
BROWN: That`s the point.
PINSKY: You are saying that. That`s why she freaked out at a certain point. That`s the risk of getting in these behaviors too aggressively.
You can retraumatize somebody and then all of a sudden the rules change. We have to understand why some people get into this stuff. Excellent
discussion.
Next, more on this story with the behavior bureau. Maybe they can straighten it out.
And later, Ray Rice` wife blames the media for all the troubles. Is she a victim as well or an enabler? Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
2130 - KA
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): A Craigslist marriage made in hell. The man is charged with keeping his wife as a sex slave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Charging documents go on to detail graphic sexual and physical abuse. Harden is accused of 38 counts of rape, battery
and criminal confinement against his wife, who told officers she would scream and yell for help, hoping a neighbour would call police.
Neighbour Tyler Davers also noticed something else was odd. She always wore a leather collar. The collar was all part of a sex slave contract.
Prosecutors say Harden enforced every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Jena, Wendy and Jennifer. The woman reportedly forced to wear a leather collar every day as part of the master slave
contract. She agreed to, supposedly. Here is what a neighbour witnessed. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TYLER DAVERS, HARDEN`S NEIGHBOUR: It is just a black strap and you could see where the hook is, where the chain could go into it. She would wear it
at the bus stop and she wore it everywhere she went. We can hear them fighting sometime and we heard a lot of loud noises upstairs. But, I never
thought anything of it. I did not even expect that -- I mean, that is pretty bizarre.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Jena, when you, were you able to hear the provocative sort of bomb that Karamo dropped here suggesting that this is just an S&M
relationship that went too far?
KRAVITZ: Absolutely not.
PINSKY: Well, hold on. And, the case he was making, you know, it was bizarre. It was interesting. It is worth consideration. That somebody
with trauma seeks out these sorts of repetitive re-traumatizing relationships and circumstances. Wendy is nodding her head. That
sometimes people go too far with it without realizing it then the whole thing becomes a mess. Jena, first.
KRAVITZ: You know -- this is not a BDSM relationship. And, a BDSM relationship, there is something consensual. He went on Craigslist
advertising himself as somebody who is godly and sweet and looking for a partner. He then presented her with this contract somewhere in the
relationship.
This was not part of their contract in the beginning. In the BDSM relationship, that is consensual. Both partners at the end of the day are
experiencing some pleasure, sometimes pain and humiliation. But, there are boundaries. There are safe words and there are rules with these types of
relationships.
PINSKY: But, let me play devil`s advocate. But, Wendy, I am confused. I signed a contract. Contract has to be it is binding by both parties. Both
people should resolve it.
WALSH: Not if the contract breaks the law. When we talk about this being not a BDSM relationship. Remember, every BDSM contract has to include
clauses that are safe, sane and consensual.
KRAVITZ: Right.
WALSH: There is nothing safe and sane about with holding someone`s medication or constraining them. What if there was a fire and she could
not get out and she was tied up --
PINSKY: Or she was seizing and unconscious. Here are some of the items removed from the home. And, A lot of these things were intended to induce
like really serious painful like unflinchingly painful experiences with no safety. Sam?
Dr. Drew, he would torture her until she was left unconscious. He would beat her in front of his children and he would also beat her dog. He would
beat her dog too. So this guy is an absolute, not even a sadist. He is a piece of garbage.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Dr. Drew, he would torture here until she was left unconscious.
PINSKY: Right. Right.
SCHACHER: He would repeatedly rape her. He would beat her --
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: -- in front of his children --
PINSKY: I do not know that.
SCHACHER: -- And, he would also beat his dog. He would beat her dog too. So, this guy is an absolute, not even a sadist. This guy is a piece of
garbage.
PINSKY: Well, so, Jennifer, psychopath? Hurting animals, hurting adults, not caring, acting out weirdly sexually, what do you think?
KEITT: I mean absolutely, I agree with that. But, I think what I would really want women to know is just because a man says that he is godly does
not may not crap. You have to walk the walk with him for some kind of time before you put yourself in these kinds of situations.
Once again, I am not a view. I am not making her another victim in this situation. But, the godliness kept being put up front, up front, up front.
What was she looking for? And, as soon as she got with him and he began to demonstrate these kinds of behaviours, God went out the door. Why did not
she go behind him?
PINSKY: Yes.
KEITT: That is crazy.
PINSKY: Well, it is crazy. And, Jena, is not it interesting that she was looking for safety but because she probably had these sorts of experiences
in her life and was attracted to this sort of abuse?
KRAVITZ: Right. So, this sort of abuse is like an addiction. Only substances come with warnings and known risks of danger and continued
abuse, right? And, humans do not have labels. But, somebody who is coming from a pattern of violence typically does seek this out. This is somebody
who definitely was staying with him for a reason and he was somebody, and I want to focus more on him because I do not want to re-victimize her.
PINSKY: Right.
KRAVITZ: Because that is what we are doing by saying why did she stay with him, right?
PINSKY: But to be fair --
KEITT: But, she is a responsible adult.
SCHACHER: No, because once she is in it, she is in it.
PINSKY: Yes. When they get into that kind of coercion control, there is no self. They are just destroyed and they cannot imagine. It is like a
Stockholm in a way. They just cannot imagine being outside of the sway of that power.
KEITT: From day one, though?
PINSKY: No. Not, day one. Day one, she signed up for it, guys. I really think she did, day one. I think that was -- Again, it is coercion in
control in his part.
WALSH: And, then of it came a slippery slope and the emotional shackles were stronger than any other shackle.
KRAVITZ: She wanted to please him. She thought she love this man. She is addicted to him. He craves power and control and she wanted to give him
that. It just kind of went a little too far.
SCHACHER: Let us not go on the personals on Craigslist, if anything. Can we all agree upon that, please?
PINSKY: I think these five people can agree upon it.
WALSH: I agree.
KEITT: I agree.
KRAVITZ: I agree.
WALSH: But, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Yes.
WALSH: This is again, a by product of the 50 Shades of Grey culture, where people do not understand a true BDSM relationship. And, that book should
be called 50 Shades of abuse because there is so much abuse in it.
PINSKY: Wendy, I know and I do not understand why Sam defends it so.
SCHACHER: Because you are comparing the two. And, you cannot compare that piece of garbage to Christian Grey --
PINSKY: But, you cannot compare -- because Christian Grey --
KRAVITZ: I agree.
PINSKY: Jena, how dare you?
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: Thank you, Jena!
PINSKY: Because, although that is a fictional character. That guy, Christian Grey, in the real world would be this guy. That is --
KRAVITZ: No. You know why?
WALSH: He would be arrested. And, he would be arrested.
PINSKY: Jena. You know why, what?
KRAVITZ: That story was about a woman who wanted to feel desired and adored and that is why women all over the world are talking about that
book. That is what it comes down to.
PINSKY: But, any man knows --
KEITT: Chains, do not make me feel adored. I am sorry. Chains do not make me feel adored.
PINSKY: That is right.
KEITT: Sex should not hurt. That is my personal opinion.
PINSKY: Right. And, Jena --
KEITT: It should not.
PINSKY: Every male knows reading that, that that guy is a scum bag. And, that is we all fall for that. We know the guy that the guy has a sort of
psychopathy underneath that or something very, very seriously wrong.
KRAVITZ: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Next up, Ray Rice. My cameramen are giggling all around me. Why are you guys laughing? How dare you? This is of course, the video we have
all seen. She spoke out today. He spoke today. We will be talking about it, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAY RICE, BALTIMORE RAVENS RUNNING BACK PLAYER: I apologize to my fans, to the kids, to everyone who was affected, you know, by this situation that me
and my wife were in. I made the biggest mistake of my life. Me. She can do no wrong. She is an angel. Her pain is my pain. My pain is her pain.
JANAY PALMER, RAY RICE`S WIFE: I love Ray and I know he will continue to prove himself.
RICE: I want you to know that, you know, I am still the Ray Rice that you, you know, know or used to know, or grown to love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Anahita, Jennifer. Joining us, the legendary broadcaster, Pat O`Brien with CBS Sports for over 15 years. He is the
author of "I Will Be Back Right After This." I am going to hold the book up here, right now, because I want to read from the back cover, Dr. Drew
Pinsky says, "A courageous unflinching journey through the crucible of fame and public approbation." Pat, good words.
SCHACHER: Good job, Dr. Drew.
SEDAGHATFAR: Impressive.
PAT O`BRIEN, CBS SPORTS BROADCASTER: Very good. I had to look that word up.
PINSKY: It is a best seller. Congratulations.
O`BRIEN: Thank you very much. It is quite the journey and your part of it as you know.
PINSKY: Well, I appreciate that. People will enjoy reading it. I am sure. I have learned a lot. By the way, it is almost a textbook in
recovery. So, my friend, you spent a lot of years talking to people in and around this organization. What are your thoughts about this, so many
unanswered questions, there are so many people shaking their head, wondering how they could have only suspended him for two games and what did
they know and not know? What do you think?
O`BRIEN: First off, I want sty thanks for having me on. But, also, there are 960,000 domestic violence cases every year and there is no elevator
video. And, so, there are 200 million people, women that go through this. Four women a day are killed. So, let us not overlook the big issue here
and I know you are not.
PINSKY: Well, but I think your point is well taken, which is that by -- if this is minimized in any way, those 900,000 people may be affected.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: We do not want them to feel diminished. We do not want them to feel not heard. We do not want them to feel that this trivialized. This
is a life threatening condition.
O`BRIEN: Right.
SCHACHER: Or that they will be blamed for speaking out.
PINSKY: Right.
O`BRIEN: Right, Sam. And, it is ironic that Ray Rice is a running back, because they should all do what Ray Rice does. When he gets the ball he
does not look back. He runs. He runs for cover. And, that is what they should do.
PINSKY: Yes.
O`BRIEN: But, the NFL, it is inconceivable to me that they did not know about all this stuff. The NFL is a very protective. They are very
thorough. And, there is a big wrap sheet with NFL players all across up and down the board. It goes on we ever league. But, let us not be so
quick to put all the blame on Roger Goodell.
Let us not put Roger, commissioner, under the bus so quickly, because he is an employee just like the rest of us. He is an employee and he has to
answer to 32 owners. And, I say we flush out the owners to find out what their policies are like, because you know what they think, right? Let me
say what I think they think is that, look, no one wants to lose Ray Rice on a football team. No one wants to, you know, -- O.J. Simpson would have
gone back and played had he still been that age.
That is the culture of football. Good players continue to play. But, the 32 owners, I would like to hear them talk about it. I know the Ravens
owner has talked about it. But just saying disgusting is one thing. There is no other side to this story. There is no other side. I cover a lot of
boxing. Two more inches up and he could have killed her.
PINSKY: Yes!
O`BRIEN: I mean that is -- you know, that is the bottom line here.
PINSKY: Anahita, I see you nodding your head a lot with Pat is saying there.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: I mean what he is saying, there are several things he said. Let us review it. One is this could have been a murder case.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
PINSKY: As such, is this attempted murder?
SEDAGHATFAR: It could be. But one thing he said is I do blame the NFL and I take issue with how they hand this, because it is so disingenuous to say,
"Oh, we gave him a two-game suspension because we never saw that second tape, because he confessed. He said, "I beat her up. I knocked her out."
So, was that confession not enough to suspend him longer than two games? I think it was only after that video came out. The media jumped on it.
There was this public pressure that the NFL finally did the right thing, because they had to save face. It is kind of like the Donald Sterling
tape.
PINSKY: Jennifer, I see you nodding your head too.
KEITT: This story just touches me on so many levels. I cannot even begin, Dr. Drew, because for 17 years I was the child watching my mother walk
through a domestic violence situation. And, so my heart immediately goes to the fact that these two have been together for a very long time. They
have structured a relationship that is based obviously on violent reaction and obscenities being screamed and they have children.
And, that is what really hurts me, because women and men do not realize that their children are watching. So, Ray becoming that person, I have to
wonder. What did he see when he was growing up? And, we continue the cycle generation after generation after generation.
PINSKY: Jennifer, we have a saying --
KEITT: And, it hurts!
PINSKY: Oh, my God it hurts. But, Jennifer, there is a saying in the domestic violence literature, which is that the children are deeply
affected by this. They are likely to re-enact it as you suggest it. But, there is a saying, which is the girls become worriers and the boys become
warriors. So, we have the boys becoming violent and the girls turning inward. Pat.
SCHACHER: Wow.
O`BRIEN: You know, and you are absolutely right. And, I was not defending the NFL or Roger Goodell. I am just saying, let us throw right people
under the bus here. But where is law enforcement in this?
PINSKY: That is what I wonder. Why is not there more legal action?
O`BRIEN: All of a sudden, any normal people, if I can use that, would -- as soon as they saw him dragging her out would be called in. You know,
Johnnie Cochran once told me that when you are a celebrity -- and Johnnie Cochran was one of O.J`s --
PINSKY: So weird that you have to say that -- That so famous for so long.
O`BRIEN: I know. He said in this country, you are guilty until proven broke. And, that is so very true for the celebrities. But, you know, let
us -- the NFL -- One other thing. The NFL does not want to find themselves in front of congress. That is the big issue here. They do not want anti-
trust laws coming at them. They do not want their league broken up. It is a $9 billion industry. It is a good sport. I love the NFL.
PINSKY: You know what? That is really the -- I feel dirty or sick or something. Me too. I want to see these guys play. I love the sport.
Sam.
SCHACHER: Yes. You know, Dr. Drew, here is the thing. The NFL is claiming that they never saw the video and TMZ is kind of backing up --
O`BRIEN: Impossible.
SCHACHER: -- I agree with you.
PINSKY: Pat says it is impossible.
SCHACHER: I agree. Well, TMZ is also saying that the Casino is now claiming that the NFL never even asked for the footage. So, that is -- you
know, looking at it from that point of view as well that they are turning, if that is true indeed, they are purposely turning a blind guy, almost like
an ignorance as bliss policy so they do not have to act.
SEDAGHATFAR: He confessed to that. They did not need to see that tape, though. He confessed.
SCHACHER: I know. I know.
SEDAGHATFAR: He said I knocked her out.
SCHACHER: I am just using their argument against them.
SEDAGHATFAR: No. I understand, but I think it was public --
O`BRIEN: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Go ahead, Pat.
O`BRIEN: And, the NFL says, you know, we will look at credible sources when they were asked about TMZ. It turns out one of the most credible
sources right now on the planet is TMZ. Who had the video? Harvey Levin did. And, they get at this time legal way. They do it all legally.
PINSKY: Yes.
O`BRIEN: TMZ has broken more stories than "The New York Times."
PINSKY: And, again, thank you to TMZ Sports for letting us use that video. It is an eye opening. It tells the story in such a way that you cannot
move away from it. It has an emotional kind of effect on you. I want to play that tape about the Janay re-enactment on Instagram, but we will do it
after the break. Next, should we be talking about all this or is this really our business? How far down this rant hole should we go? Back after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANAY PALMER, RAY RICE`S WIFE: I do deeply regret the role that I have played in the incident that night.
RAY RICE, BALTIMORE RAVENS PLAYER: I made the biggest mistake of my life. Me. She can do no wrong.
PALMER: We continue to work through it together and we are continuing to strengthen our relationship and our marriage and do what we have to do for
not only for ourselves collectively but individually. I know he will gain your respect back in due time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Jennifer and Pat O`Brien. Rice`s wife, Janay, you just saw there. Apparently used Instagram to react. Listen to
an audio recreation of her Instagram.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
PALMER: No one knows the pain that the media unwanted opinions from the public have caused my family. To make us relieve a moment in our lives
that we regret everyday is a horrible thing. To take something away from the man I love that he has worked his (EXPLICIT WORD) for his whole life
just to gain ratings is horrific.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right, yesterday, Janay -- Go ahead, Pat. You are laughing. Go ahead.
O`BRIEN: I mean it is so horrendous. I mean that is just -- and I feel sorry for her. But, Ray Rice who is trained to be violent took his fist or
his hand and try to beat the hell out of his fiancee. Knocked her on the ground. Left her skirt up. Dragged her life a dog. Come on. You are
kidding me.
PINSKY: Yes. Jennifer.
KEITT: You know, I cannot blame her. And, I say that with all of my heart, because she does not see herself as a victim. And, until she sees
herself as a victime, there is not a thing that anyone can do except for rally around --
PINSKY: Yes.
KEITT: And support her. I do believe that it is our business to put the moral pressure on him and her to talk about violence in relationships. I
can tell you this. If there have been Twitter, Facebook and all these other social media platforms when my father was knocking my mother`s head
off, I would have been grateful as a child that he would have been brought to pass in the public eye to begin to talk about these kinds of issues.
When are we going to recognize that we cannot do it this way? This is not the best way to do it.
PINSKY: Hopefully here. But, inside -- Sam, inside of a coercion in control relationship, it is hard to see the outside`s point of view. On
top of that, she is right. She was getting sort of unnecessarily bash by, particularly, social media. Yesterday, there was a lot of sympathy for.
Today, you see a lot on social media, correct me if I am wrong, Sam, but calling her stupid for her defending her husband, blaming the media.
Taking issue with her, not leaving him when he beat her up and may be she is going to leave him if he loses his job. What do you say?
SCHACHER: Well, I think it is a lack of understanding with battered women syndrome. And, I want to talk of the hash tag that is trending called
#whyistayed. And, I am so glad that you brought it up, Jennifer and I am sorry for your story. But, there are a number of women on social media
primarily Twitter, who are trying to respond to the criticism against Janay for staying with Ray Rice.
So, for example. Let me read some tweets. And, these are women who have survived relationships, who have been battered. So, we have from Rachel,
"Because my word was the only evidence." From Carmen, "Because I thought I was strong enough to fix things and make them better if I just try it
harder, did more and did it perfectly." From Jack, "Because anything was better than admitting failure, admitting they were right about you."
#whyistayed
PINSKY: Wow. Just those three. Jennifer, just those three are great examples.
KEITT: What about the kids? What about if she has nothing to do? Maybe she has no way of making herself known or making way for herself? It is
absolutely difficult. Once again, I am not defending the decision to put yourself and kids at risk.
PINSKY: Yes.
KEITT: But it is real!
PINSKY: But, it is real and those three tweets are great examples of what a woman thinks when she is in a coercive controlling relationship. This
morning on Sirius XM, Howard Stern weighed in this relationship. I want to hear what he had to say about the Ray Rice and his wife domestic violence.
Let is hear it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD STERN, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Any normal person, once they get hit by a man would go, goodbye! That is it. It is over. But, when you have
low self-esteem and you have a victim -- I am not talking about some little instance, this is a psychological condition, where you think you deserve to
be beaten or you do not deserve any better in life, or I will never be able get love from anybody. She is completely ill. I mean in the same way that
someone has a mental illness. So, no. She is not to blame.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Pat, here we are. You say this needed more conversation about this. We are having a pretty good one, tonight.
O`BRIEN: Actually, I agreed Howard on that 100 percent.
PINSKY: Yes. Me too.
O`BRIEN: But, let us not overlook the whole deal here. This disease and this problem is a national epidemic. A $7.8 billion, $8 billion a year in
police, in court, in medical costs and shelters are spent trying to correct this. Congress will not pass the anti-violence against women or whatever
it is called bill. The GOP stopped that bill. We need to hear from the owners. This is not a Ray Rice --
PINSKY: Wait. Wait. We need to hear from the owners. What are they going to tell us? What are they going to do? Is it the owners? The
owners` wives are going to tell us something. Who is going to tell us something and what?
O`BRIEN: They are not, because, remember when -- This is the Donald Sterling deal. Donald Sterling has been like that for a long that. And,
we did not really find out about it until someone released, quote/unquote, "Elevator tape," which was an audio tape.
But, I mean this is not a Ray Rice problem. It is now. But, it is a national problem. Four women a day die. 2.5 million kids watch this going
on in their houses. You know, I have done my research on this. It is a horrible, terrible thing. It is a Ray Rice problem.
PINSKY: You are right. I have spoken to these organizations. Anahita, you represent cases like this all the time.
SEDAGHATFAR: I do.
PINSKY: But, I want to point out, again, the kids. The boys become warriors, the female become worriers. The boys act out, the girls act in.
If they witnessed domestic violence at any time their life.
SEDAGHATFAR: But, why are so many people blaming the victim? In social media, they are saying why is she staying with him? She should leave. It
is mainly women that are doing this. Do you know why, Dr. Drew? Why do they want to blame her for staying with him?
O`BRIEN: It is twitter for one thing.
PINSKY: Well, it is Twitter. There is a mob and mobs on twitter act out all the time. But listen, women -- I do not have time with you there is
actually evidence in primate literature and primate anthropology about why females act out on females. You, guys, all know what I am talking about.
It started when you are in sixth grade. Jennifer.
KEITT: Yes. It is easy to quarterback. It is easy to sit back and decide what you would or would not do.
PINSKY: Well, it is shunning behaviors. Shunning behaviors are very powerful and they have been used throughout human history. And,
unfortunately, for whatever reason, why you would shun someone who needs your support is something baffling to me.
SCHACHER: I know.
SEDAGHATFAR: And, women at that. That makes it even --
PINSKY: That is the part. Women use shunning behaviors.
SEDAGHATFAR: I do not get it. Where is the empathy?
SCHACHER: And, The kids when they witness this, what can they do, so they do not repeat this behavior?
PINSKY: Well, kids need therapy, lots and lots of therapy. Jennifer, I have 10 seconds, Jennider. How did you prevent from repeating?
SCHACHER: Yes.
KEITT: That is exactly what I had to do. I had to go through therapy. I had to go through that process, because Dr. Drew, every time my husband --
you know, we got into a little tiff or a little argument. My stomach would churn. It was just absolutely horrid, but I know that this --
PINSKY: Out of time. We will keep talking about this thing. Pat, thank you for being here. Check out his book. "Forensic Files" begins now.
END
