Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

New Goodell Bombshell; CIA: ISIS Ranks Rise To 31,000 Plus; Retired Gen. John Allen To Lead ISIS Fight; Pistorius Granted Bail, Sentencing October 13

Aired September 12, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Then a growing threat, the CIA says ISIS could be three times bigger than we thought as the White House lines up for a four-star general to lead the fight.

Plus, the blade runner guilty of culpable homicide in the shooting death of his girlfriend. But he's not behind bars yet. Could Oscar Pistorius avoid jail time all together? Let's talk live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. There is a new bombshell development surrounding the Ray Rice investigation. ESPN reports that the now-suspended running back told NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell at a meeting back in June that he punched Janay Palmer.

That seems to contradict Goodell's account of the meeting. The commissioner telling CBS News this week that the elevator video of the punch was inconsistent with what Rice had told him. The Ravens, as you know, played their first game last night since releasing Rice. CNN's Andy Scholes was there.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: Hi, Carol. It was a sell-out crowd and the fans were as loud as ever, but of course, Ray Rice was still on everyone's mind. This story seems to take another turn every few hours.

Roger Goodell continues to be under fire. Many people don't believe what he's saying and amidst all the controversy, the Ravens had to get back to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHOLES (voice-over): The Baltimore Ravens taking the field for the first time since their teammate, Ray Rice, was let go amidst a domestic violence controversy. In a new report, four sources tell ESPN that Rice met with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell back in June, admitting he punched his then-fiance Janay Palmer in a casino elevator months before TMZ posted the surveillance video.

On Tuesday, Goodell told CBS News's that Rice's account of what happened was ambiguous compared to what the video showed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was ambiguous about her laying unconscious on the floor being dragged out by her feet? ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: There was nothing ambiguous about that. That was the result that we saw. We did not know what led up to that.

SCHOLES: The number of current and former players calling for Goodell to be held accountable is growing by the day.

JONATHAN VILMA, FORMER NEW ORLEANS SAINTS LINEBACKER: Roger Goodell failed to act, plain and simple. If he failed to act, there should be consequences.

SCHOLES: And former Philadelphia Eagles running back, Brian Westbrook, tweeting "being a leader is not a part-time job. If Goodell holds the players to a high standard, he should be held to that same high standard."

Mere hours before Thursday night's kickoff, CBS officials nix a pre- recorded Rihanna opener considering the singer's own history of domestic abuse at the hands of ex Chris Brown.

Instead devoting time to a discussion about the abuse scandal rocking the NFL culminating with James Brown making a powerful plea.

JAMES BROWN, CBS COMMENTATOR: According to domestic violence experts, more than three women per day lose their lives at the hands of their partners. So this is yet another call to men to stand up and take responsibility for their thoughts, their words, their deeds, and as Deion says, to give help or get help because our silence is deafening and deadly.

SCHOLES: After defeating the Steelers, the Ravens voiced their support for their ex-teammate.

DENNIS PITTA, BALTIMORE RAVENS TIGHT END: He's always been unbelievable in the community here and people have grown to love him and they support him as do we. We acknowledge the mistake he made.

TORREY SMITH, BALTIMORE RAVENS WIDE RECEIVER: Ray's still a great guy, you know? He made a mistake. You take away those 2 minutes of his life and you look at a model citizen, a model man.

SCHOLES: Fans also showing loyalty to Rice by wearing his jersey.

BOBBY MCDONALD, BALTIMORE RAVENS FAN: I stick behind Ray Rice 100 percent. And I will rock this jersey every day until he is back on that field.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a situation that is between his wife and himself and I feel that everybody should leave them alone and let them deal with the situation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHOLES: Carol, I have to say, I was shocked to see so many Ravens fans wearing Ray Rice jerseys last night. There were hundreds of them. Surprisingly, most of them were women and the ones I talked to, they said they were much more mad at the NFL and Roger Goodell than they were at Ray Rice.

COSTELLO: Andy Scholes reporting live for us this morning. So will the NFL lift Ray Rice's suspension in the future? Roger Goodell told CBS News that Rice has a lot of work to do, but the commissioner certainly did not close the door on Rice.

Now these female fans wearing their Ray Rice jersey stood in front of a sign last night that said "forgive." I want to bring in Rice's former Ravens teammate, Derek Mason and Rachel Nichols, host of CNN's "UNGUARDED."

Welcome to both of you. Derek, were you surprised that so many female fans showed up in Rice jerseys?

DEREK MASON, FORMER BALTIMORE RAVENS PLAYER: I was very surprised considering the nature of the video and I'm not going to excuse men for wearing it, but kind of thought -- I mean, I understand because they're so sports fanatic, but when a woman wears it, what are you telling other women that have been abused? That you condone it?

If you're mad at Goodell, wear a shirt that says "no to Goodell." Don't wear a Ray Rice jersey and flaunt it around in front of those who have been abused by men.

COSTELLO: Rachel, I was sort of surprised at the way people termed what happened between Janay and Ray Rice. You heard one man --

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN HOST, "UNGUARDED": A mistake.

COSTELLO: A mistake is when you subtract four minus two and it equals one.

NICHOLS: Yes, that always disturbs me when we talk about domestic violence. Something can happen even one time and it's not a mistake, it's an intentional act. So we need to be careful.

I think that's the distinction people are trying to make. They're just misspeaking when they say it. Janay and Ray Rice have both said that this was 30 seconds of their life, that this was a one-time thing, this is not their relationship typically is.

We really have no choice, but just to take their word at what it is and say we either believe them or don't, but that is how they are terming it. And you can talk about that if you want to say, they only said it happened one time and we want to move forward with this.

I personally think Ray Rice does deserve eventually a second chance to play in the NFL because we are a country of second chances. But I do think that any time when you talk about a domestic violence incident it's wrong to use the word "mistake."

COSTELLO: Derek, I wanted to get your thoughts on this. You know, you don't know what to believe, frankly. You don't know what Ray Rice exactly told Roger Goodell in that meeting with his wife sitting beside him and his lawyer was in the room. But there are those who have come forward to ESPN and said Rice did not lie to the commissioner. He admitted that he punched Janay. Do you believe that?

MASON: I do. I believe considering what happened Ray had no reason to lie because eventually he understood if that tape came out then there was going to be another one. So I can't see how Ray Rice went into the commissioner's office and told anything but what actually happened on that -- in that elevator.

I couldn't see him saying "Well, I pushed her or slapped her." I believe that he said to the commissioner, "I punched my wife, it was -- I should haven't done it, but it happened and I truly regret it."

But I don't think he went in there and told the commissioner "I did something other than what happened in that elevator."

COSTELLO: Derek, have you spoken to Rice?

MASON: He and I texted back and forth the other day and I just explained to him that, you know, I was going out and giving my opinion to whether it be you guys on CNN or on the radio and as a friend I didn't want him to be blindsided by my comments.

I consider him a friend, but I'm going to tell the truth. Did I think it was wrong? Absolutely. Do I think the one-year suspension is warranted? Absolutely. When it happened I thought it should have been more games. But that's never going to stop me from being his friend.

I still love the guy and surprisingly enough he text me back within two or three minutes and said "I appreciate it, Brother, I love you, too."

COSTELLO: Awesome. I know Rachel on your show you're going do a special on domestic violence and you talked to another sports star who's had his own problems with domestic violence.

NICHOLS: Yes, Floyd Mayweather is the world's richest, most highest- paid athlete. Last year alone "Forbes" estimated he earned $105 million, which is amazing. And he went to jail, he went to prison on domestic violence charges and he wasn't suspended at all by the Nevada Boxing Commission.

He is allowed to continue on and there have been additional allegations of additional women citing abuse since then. So I asked him about that and a few other things. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLS: Why should fans root for you with this kind of history? The incident you went to jail for, the mother of your three children did show some bruising, a concussion when she went to the hospital. It was your own kids who called the police, gave them a detailed description of the abuse. There's been documentation. FLOYD MAYWEATHER, FIVE DIVISION WORLD CHAMPION: Once again no pictures, just hearsay and allegations and I signed a plea bargain so once again not true.

NICHOLS: Are we really supposed to believe all these women are lying, including the incidents when there were witnesses like your own kids?

MAYWEATHER: Everybody's entitled to their own opinion, you know? When it's all said and done only God can judge me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLS: So the denial there is really amazing. I came at him with hospital reports and he just insisted "I didn't do anything wrong." And he is getting reinforced by the fact that he is about to fight this weekend, there will be a huge fight and there's customers, Carol, that will plop down their 70 bucks. He's expected to make $30 million this weekend alone.

COSTELLO: It's just unbelievable. I can't wait to watch your special. Rachel Nichols, Derek Mason, thanks to you both.

And just a reminder, CNN's "UNGUARDED" with Rachel Nichols airs tonight at 10:30 Eastern. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: I have some breaking news to pass along to you this morning. As the crisis in Ukraine continues, the U.S. is hitting Russia with a new round of sanctions. The main target this time -- Russia's largest bank and its energy sector.

CNN's senior Washington correspondent, Joe Johns, is in Washington with more on this. Good morning.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. This is more tightening of the screws on Russia for violating the territorial integrity of Ukraine. The Treasury Department at this hour announcing a whole new list of economic sanctions against financial interests in Russia.

Including, as you said, against Russia's largest bank by shares, share bank, a whole new list of other sanctions as well. The Treasury Department statement today saying "Today's actions demonstrate our determination to increase the costs on Russia as long as it continues to violate Ukraine's territorial integrity and sovereignty." Carol, back to you.

COSTELLO: Joe Johns reporting live from Washington. Thank you.

The war against ISIS or the very significant counterterrorist operation as the U.S. government wants you to call. Well, it is about to get a whole lot bigger. New numbers out from the CIA -- and they're shocking. There are up to 31,500 ISIS fighters across Iraq and Syria. That number could be triple what it once was. Almost half are foreign-born members, including 2,000 westerners. Our chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, joins us now from Washington with more on that story. Good morning, Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. It shows another success for ISIS. As it has gained territory and swooped across Iraq after their gains in Syria, their recruitment has gone up. Plus, the territory they control has gone up so they're drawing more fighters to them.

Some of these are fighters who defected from some of the other rebel groups, some are foreign recruits, but it's a lot bigger number than we were dealing with just a couple days ago.

Now I've spoken to the CIA and they say that 10,000 figure that had been the operating estimate was old. It dates from last year, so this was expected to be updated, but it really gives you a sense of how big this fighting force is.

That the president has now committed himself to not just degrading but destroying. As I speak to commanders, current and former commanders, they're telling me how long and how hard this fight will be.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (voice-over): The fight against ISIS is the latest chapter in a long American war against Islamic extremist. But it brings its own particular challenges, each of them problems that had kept the president from launching a broad campaign until now.

With military action inside Syria, the U.S. is plunging itself into a brutal and confusing civil war. ISIS is the enemy today, but so is ISIS's chief rival, Bashar Al-Assad.

America's allies on the ground, both in Syria, the moderate Syrian rebels and in Iraq, the Iraqi army, are unproven fighting forces. Neither has made any significant headway against ISIS on its own.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), SENIOR MEMBER, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: The moderate rebels in the past haven't been proven to be a cohesive fighting unit. In many cases they're also not very moderate and sometimes they make league with groups like Al Nusra, which we are dedicating to fighting against.

SCIUTTO: Into this confusing war, the president is sending an additional 475 U.S. military advisors to Iraq, raising the total number of U.S. forces there is to 1,700. They won't be in combat, but they will face risk.

In the air and on the ground, and the president's pledge to limit that risk by ruling out a combat role greatly limits the effectiveness of air strikes.

COL. PETER MANSOOR (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: An air campaign can be highly effective if you have targeters on the ground embedded with the combat units.

SCIUTTO: On the home front, military action many believe will last for years will cost billions of dollars disrupting if not destroying the president's attempt to shrink the Pentagon budget.

MANSOOR: It will be up to Congress to come up with the resources to make sure the U.S. military is not encumbered by lack of funds, lack of resources.

ROWLANDS: At stake, U.S. security at home and abroad. U.S. officials estimate ISIS has anywhere from 20,000 to 31,500 fighters, up from an earlier estimate of just 10,000, including 2,000 westerners, among them about a dozen Americans. The fear, that those western fighters are being encouraged to carry out terror attacks when they return home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: U.S. military involvement in Syria already moving forward. I'm told by a U.S. official that U.S. aircraft are now flying surveillance flights over Syria. That, Carol, to gather the intelligence necessary for the airstrikes inside Syria against is that the president announced in his speech on Wednesday night.

COSTELLO: All right, Jim, stay right there. We'll go on to a different topic and I want your input. President Obama keeps promising there will be no boots on the ground, but there are those who wonder if the president can actually keep that promise.

The new man in charge of the operation will be General John Allen. He's a retired Marine who served in Afghanistan. Word is General Allen is adept at working with Middle Eastern leaders.

But whether he can convince those leaders to put boots on the ground, whether he'll need to remains an open question. So as I said, let's continue the conversation with CNN's Chief National security correspondent, Jim Sciutto and CNN military analyst, General Spider Marks.

OK, first of all, guys, I'd like to talk semantics because Secretary Kerry says this fight with ISIS is actually not a war. He says it's a very significant counterterrorism operation.

I guess you could call it by calling it a VSCO, or you could call it a war, which by definition is an organized and often prolonged conflict generally characterized by extreme violence, social disruption and economic destruction. Jim, doesn't that define this fight with ISIS? Isn't it a war?

SCIUTTO: Well, I think it does, frankly. In speaking to the White House, what officials say is they don't want to call it a war because that would elevate ISIS to have ISIS to say "We are at war with America."

It would give them what they love -- attention, a sense of importance, etc., that that's really the reason behind the hesitation of calling this a war. I also think there's a political element here that for the president who pledged to get the U.S. out of two long Middle Eastern wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

To be returning to war there, you know, I don't think that's an association that they love. The president certainly is not loathe to take military steps against ISIS, which we heard from him on Wednesday night.

COSTELLO: So, General, do you agree by calling it a war would it elevate ISIS?

MAJ. GENERAL JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it certainly would elevate ISIS, but the president spent a good deal of time admitting that he didn't know what he was going to do about ISIS and then he came on television.

And announced to the world that he needed to create a strategy and then he laid out what seemed like a four-strong strategy and I think he did a fine job of that. The issue truly is this is a strategy that the United States has to embrace.

And all elements of national power have to be involved and the military is but one of those, but the most significant at this point. Clearly there is diplomatic efforts that need to take place, economic as well.

COSTELLO: General, in your mind, is it a war? Is this a war, General?

MARKS: This is a campaign. This is an ongoing effort that the United States has to have, which is a sustained effort over the course of time. So, Carol, let me step back for a second and tell you, yes, I think the United States must acknowledge that it is in a sustained period of conflict that's going to be defined in a whole bunch of different ways over the course of probably decades. And we've seen that for the last ten years.

COSTELLO: It's 35,000 ISIS fighters. Isn't that an army?

MARKS: Sure it is. Yes, I'm not disagreeing with you, Carol, at all. Absolutely it's an army. It's a considerable force and the United States across the board has to have a strategy and campaign in order to go after it. So I think we here in complete agreement here.

COSTELLO: OK, let's move on to boots on the ground because Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst told the "Washington Times" quote, "what a waste of time. We have not learned a thing in 80 years. The Islamic state is an army.

The air power is not going to get the job done until you put troops in and kill these guys. They're going to continue. They adjust to tactics. They meld into the civilian population."

So, General Marks, is Johnson right? Do you have to fight them on the ground because they'll change their tactics once air strikes start in earnest, I suppose. MARKS: Yes. Short answer, Carol. You have to be able to go to where they train, where they get their motivation, where they reside, where they assemble, where they launch operations and you must root them out. A campaign through the air is insufficient to eliminate ISIS as a threat.

You can achieve time and space through a very aggressive air effort, very aggressive air effort. And you can degrade them considerably. But you're not going to defeat them until you have folks on the ground who can sustain an -- a period where they cannot regenerate power.

COSTELLO: OK, so, Jim, a top aide to General Petraeus in Iraq says what's needed is for Americans to embed with Iraqis while they're fighting. Is it possible that's already happening?

SCIUTTO: No, not at the front lines. They are embedded in these joint operation centers that they've set up with Iraqi forces both in Erbil in Northern Iraq and in Baghdad.

So they're next to them as they analyze the intelligence, pick targets, et cetera. But it's been the president's decision, he does not want the soldiers on the front lines where they will face more risk.

The trouble is you have Secretary Kerry in the region. Part of his role there now is to get other countries to commit to putting at least some forces on the ground in addition to training and equipping the Syrian rebels, but those countries based on their public statements are reluctant as well. That's a problem going forward.

COSTELLO: All right, Jim Sciutto and General Spider Marks, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Oscar Pistorius granted bail after being found guilty of homicide in the killing of his girlfriend. How much prison time will he face? We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Olympic runner, Oscar Pistorius has been granted bail this morning after being convicted in the killing of his model girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp. Pistorius was convicted of culpable homicide, which is the South African term for killing someone unlawfully but doing so unintentionally.

The track star was cleared of two more serious charges of murder. His sentencing, which could be a maximum of 15 years, will be decided next month. Pistorius' uncle says regardless of the outcome, their hearts to go out to Steenkamp's family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARNOLD PISTORIUS, OSCAR'S UNCLE: A tragic event like this, there's no victors in this. And it won't bring Reeva back but our hearts still go out for her family and friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Robyn Curnow is live in South Africa with more. What is the Steenkamp family saying?

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They haven't said anything and actually they haven't said very much to the media here throughout this entire trial since Reeva Steenkamp died on Valentine's Day last year.

I've been amazed sitting in court day after day how stoic, how strong her mother has been particularly. She's been there every day. And even during the most intense testimony, graphic visual images of her daughter's dead body.

A lot of very biological details about the state of her body, her mother constantly sat still, looked ahead stony faced. She was a very brave woman and I -- if she does come out and statement, it will be interesting but so far, no.

COSTELLO: Are South Africans surprised by the verdict?