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President Obama Claims United States Will Degrade And Destroy ISIL; NFL Takes Huge PR Hit Amidst Multiple Scandals

Aired September 13, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Hello, everyone. I'm Randi Kaye here in New York.

America's top diplomat is overseas today selling the idea of U.S. military action against ISIS to as many Arab leaders as will listen. According to the state department, John Kerry is asking for support, and he's getting it. This is Kerry, meeting with Egypt's president today, also been in turkey and Saudi Arabia on the trip. Kerry's message to the leaders is this, the fight against ISIS is not religious, and it's an effort that the entire world should get behind.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: The bottom line is that terrorists like ISIL have no place in the modern world. But it's up to the world to enforce that truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Elise Labott, our global affairs correspondent, is in Cairo for us right now. Elise, is that enough that the Arab leaders agree fundamentally with U.S. plans to dry ISIS, or is John Kerry asking for action for troops, bases, military resources?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS REPORTER: Well, he's going to be asking for all that, Randi. I think the western nations, maybe some of Europe and elsewhere will be doing the bulk of the military action. I think it's true that the Arab nations in terms of the military campaign is asking for rights and intelligence is very important, but a very important part of this also is the diplomatic angle and political angle. And that means cutting off the flow of foreign funding to ISIS and the oil smuggling that goes to ISIS, and that's how it gets money and does recruiting. And also, the flow of foreign fighters from many of the countries into Iraq and Syria.

Here in Egypt, for instance, U.S. officials were telling us that some of the foreign fighters transmitting through Egypt are actually kind of stopping for awhile, sharing their knowledge, and coaching some of the extremist groups in Egypt in the Sinai. And so, that's why U.S. says ISIS is not just a threat to Iraq and Syria and the countries that neighbor it, but really the entire region. And so, that's why secretary Kerry was here. He also wanted Egypt's leaders to use their religious influence. I mean, as you know, Egypt is the heart of the Arab world, the intellectual center. And so, Secretary Kerry was asking for religious queries to send the message that ISIS is the enemy.

So speak out against the group. And just even last week, the top cleric in Egypt, the grand (INAUDIBLE) issued a statement condemning ISIS after the beheading of these two Americas in the gruesome videos.

So the secretary would like to see more of that. And this is part of that global coalition that they really hammer out next week in Paris when all the coalition countries get together for a conference. And then at the U.N. general assembly the week after where they are going to, obviously, that will be the top of the agenda when they have many meetings on how to combat the group, Randi.

KAYE: When it comes to this coalition, I mean, Kerry said that, you know, he certainly has talked about dividing up the responsibilities among the Arab nations in the fight against ISIS. Any word what that looks like?

LABOTT: Well, I think he's looking for different things from different people. I mean, some of the gulf countries, Saudi Arabia maybe, Kuwait, Bahrain, they might be using basing, for instance. All right, these countries have very good intelligence. I don't think you are going to see Arab nations actually take part militarily. I mean, maybe Jordan, for instance, has some special forces that could help out.

But what they are saying is that, you know, no contribution is too small. Don't forget, a lot of these countries are not all in agreement about what the fight should look like, who they are actually fighting because, obviously, ISIS, the immediate threat. But if you look at what's happening in Libya with all these militants fighting each other or in Sinai and Egypt, I mean, there's a difference among these nations about whether it should just be ISIS or it should be a regional fight against terrorism.

So these are the type of things they are shaking out or certainly not there yet. Secretary Kerry says it's premature to know who will do what. I do think as the weeks go on, that there might be more clarity, but I think that the U.S. feels at least that this last few weeks, this lightning advance of ISIS over the months and these beheadings was really a wakeup call for the region. Some border Iraq and Syria, and have seen their borders change hands with ISIS over the last few weeks.

So I don't think the U.S. is worried about a sense of urgency. I think it's just getting everybody on the same page. And a lot of people raise their hand, but the U.S. say now it has to coordinate who is best to do what, Randi.

KAYE: All right. Sounds like a lot of work still to be done. Elise Labott, thank you so much.

LABOTT: Absolutely.

KAYE: Well, still no word from Washington on exactly when U.S. military action against ISIS in Syria will start, but President Obama said air strikes there are certainly on the table. We asked the former commander of coalition forces in Afghanistan how he sees the fight against ISIS going forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. STANLEY MCCHRYSTAL, FORMER COMMANDER OF U.S. AND INTERNATIONAL FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN: I think the first thing is if you think about counterterrorism strike operations, targeting, which is what my organization focused primarily on. It's a tool. It's part of what you do. But it does not solve the problem.

We did that for years in Iraq, very effectively. But we really did not get full effect until late 2006 and 2007 when a change in the wider strategy in Iraq changed the counter insurgency when the awakening started and president approved the surge. A number of things happened which allowed a holistic approach. So the lesson that I drew from that and I feel very strongly about this and I think it is still appropriate now, is if you start to look for the simple, very surgical solution, it's an illusion. It's almost deceptive because it looks like you solved the problem, when in reality the problem is much more fundamental.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST, OUTFRONT: In that sense, this whole -- air strikes, shock and awe out there, that's just a small step?

MCCHRYSTAL: It's part of a solution, but part in my view of what's required.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Erin Burnett talking there with Stanley McChrystal. Let me bring in CNN military analyst and former U.S. military attache in Syria, retired lieutenant colonel Rick Francona.

All right, Colonel Francona, your reaction to what General McChrystal just said?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think he's right. We have to have, you know, a well-rounded approach to this. It's not just one thing. We have to get the Sunnis away from ISIS. That's very, very difficult. The president has said he wants an all- inclusive government in Baghdad. Very difficult to do. And, of course, the president says that will help us get the Sunnis back into the fold.

But I believe General McChrystal is also right. We need to take the military side of this as well. You have to force ISIS out of there. We cannot just seed the western part of Iraq, eastern part of Syria to these people. They have territory. We have to take it away from them, otherwise they will present a threat to the United States that everybody's concerned about.

KAYE: All right. Appreciate the analysis and you standing by. So stay with us, Colonel.

Ahead the colonel and rest of our expert panel will dig into the fight against ISIS including and why the White House can't make seem to make up its mind about whether or not it's a war. And the last thing the NFL needed to end the week was another arrest

of a player. More questions about just who was on the field and whether that's where they belong.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: The guessing game in Washington continues which top Obama official weighs in next on the quote, "war with ISIS." In the days following President Obama's prime time speech, there has been no shortage of conflicting accounts of whether the United States is technically at war. So why the semantics here?

Well, let me bring in CNN national security analyst and former CIA operative, Bob Baer, Robert McFadden, former special agent in charge at NSCIS, and senior vice president for the Soufan group, Lieutenant colonel Rick Francona joins me again well. Nice to see you all of you.

First, listen to this and then we'll talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our objective is clear. We will degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL through a comprehensive and sustained counterterrorism strategy.

KERRY: What we're doing is engaging in a very significant counterterrorism operation. And it's going to go on for some period of time. If somebody wants to think about of as being a war with ISIL, they can do so. but the fact is, it's a major counterterrorism operation.

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: What I said was this was not the Iraq war of 2002. But make no mistake, we know are at war with ISIL in the same way we are at war and continue to be at war with al-Qaeda and its affiliates.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: We conclude that the United States is at war with ISIL in the same way we're at war with Al-Qaeda and Al-Qaeda affiliates around the globe.

MARIE HARF, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: And this is not the kind of Iraq war that we have talked about in the recent past. This is not also Americans war with ISIL. The world is joining us in the fight because of the threat they pose to countries in the regions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: All right. So, if you are keeping track, five people, three government departments, less than a 48-hour time frame. How is the U.S. supposed to carry out an operation against ISIS when they can't even figure out what to call it?

All right, Colonel Francona, we are going to start with you first on this. What do you think? FRANCONA: I don't think it matters. When you're on the ground and

you are dropping bombs and people are shoot at you and you are shooting back, you're in a war. You're in a conflict. You're in a very significant operation. I think it's all meaningless. It does not matter. The people we're fighting believe they are at war and they think that we're at war with them. That's what is important.

KAYE: Bob Baer, do you agree?

ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I totally agree. And -- but let's keep in mind at this state and it acts as a state has approximately 20 million people under it, it has armor, it has surface to air missiles, it has got a sort of air force, I doubt they can fly the airplanes, but it's starting to look like a state and it is not going away. So I think we're coming closer to a real war than we ever were al-Qaeda, which is always sort of the desperate group spread across the world. This is something entirely new.

KAYE: And Robert, what do you think? War, not war, does it matter?

ROBERT MCFADDEN, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT IN-CHARGE AT NSCIS: I agree completely with what Rick and Bob said, but this goes to maybe somewhat this supposition when it comes to terms and how important it is as the U.S. moves into the important phase of building the coalition. Terms and words make a difference to that audience. So, again, maybe some internal debate within the administration as to how to characterize it, but former military members ourselves, we know from flying combat or recognizant missions, that certainly is a look, feel, and act of being in battle.

KAYE: But I guess, Colonel, I mean, this is a war. Why wouldn't the president use the term "war" the other night. It was always a counterterrorism effort. Why not just say it?

FRANCONA: Not being a lawyer. I think they are worried about the war-powers resolution and what this -- the legal ramifications are of using the term "war," and are we going to have a declaration of war, is there a resolution authorizing use of force, is it going to be just a supplement for funding?

So I think these all have meanings in the legal realm. But for the military, for the department of defense, for those who actually have to do this, I don't think the term really matters. They are going to be carrying out an operation, a mission, or whatever. So I know when you -- we talked to the allies, they regard this as a war.

KAYE: And, Robert, we talk about the coalition. It's now in the process of being form against ISIS. Who exactly are we talking about? And why isn't everyone on board?

MCFADDEN: Well, that's a really good way to frame it. Among the coalition of the ten that signed on the other day in Turkey has not actually signed the resolution or proclamation. And then within the Arab states, that is the follow-on that the secretary Kerry -- ISIS no doubt and like groups for priority, but for most of the coalition, not a top priority. Take Turkey, for example. It has some national objectives important

and delicate right now. Number one, 49 diplomatic personnel held by ISIS, maybe in Iraq where they were taken from Mosul. But it also, too, Turkey's been very consistent in the last three and a half years. It does not want to do anything that would in any way tip the balance toward the elicit (ph) regime.

KAYE: Certainly, makes sense. All right. Let's play another clip from President Obama Wednesday night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I will not involve American combat troops fighting on foreign soil. This counterterrorism campaign will be waged through a steady relentless effort to take out ISIL wherever they exist using our air power and our support for partners, forces on the ground. This strategy of taking out terrorists who threaten us, while supporting partners on the front lines is one that we have successfully pursued in Yemen and Somalia for years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: So there he is talking about Yemen and Somalia. Bob, I mean, are Yemen and Somalia really success stories?

BAER: No, they are not success stories at all. And we're talking about something entirely different here in which we don't hear enough about is Iran. What the White House is afraid is that somehow part of Iraq will go to the Sunni Muslims and other half will go to Iran. And we're looking at the elections in 2016 and the big question is who lost Iraq? And I have my own opinions, but it's the American public who ultimately decides.

And so, the stakes in this war absolutely enormous in what people don't want to talk about or what they can do, and putting a coalition together sounds good on paper, but I don't see it happening because Saudi Arabia in a sense implicitly supports the Sunnis which means, to a degree, ISIS. They are not going to fully commit themselves to a war, especially if Iran were to be on the other side and win in some sense. And so, he is really walking a fine line. And I don't -- I'm not sure I can improve on American policy, but the chances of an immediate, clear success are remote.

KAYE: All right. Bob, Robert, Colonel, stay with us because we are going to talk much more about this. We are also going to be talking about the NFL. It has been playing defense since Monday's release of the Ray Rice tape. But news of another player arrest has made the league's for PR crisis even more of a nightmare. The latest when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Pennsylvania state police are now naming two officers who were ambushed outside police barracks late last night. Corporal Byron Kaj Dickenson was killed. Corporal Alex T. Douglas is reported in critical but stable condition. The state police commissioner says the shooting cut the police community to the core.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

This attack was an ambush. Our troopers were leaving the barracks and were shot without warning and really had no chance to defend themselves. It's a cowardly attack. It's an attack on us all in society and the people of Pennsylvania when people attack law enforcement in this cowardly way.

This is unbelievably heart breaking to all of us. Both of them were young troopers, and -- with family, and it's -- it's the only consolation we have right now is they are all working so hard we have not had a chance really to deal with the emotions of the terrible act. But it is truly sad. And it's going to reverberate throughout law enforcement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Police are interviewing what is described as a person of interest, but so far, no arrests have been made. Meanwhile, the off the field woes of the NFL continue with another indictment. Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson turned himself in today on a felony charge of child abuse. He was released on bond, but authorities are not releasing many more details.

Peterson's lawyer, however, said it involved using a switch to discipline his son. But that Peterson never meant to harm him. Vikings deactivated running back for tomorrow's game while the team get some more information. And fans, well, they are not sure what to think.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was very disappointed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's great. Obviously, he is kind of a role model for everybody. You know, all the young kids. To hear that just kind of blows you away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn't do anything bad. He just disciplined his kid in a way that, you know, most people don't know what a switch is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did dumb things as a kid, and did I get a kick in the butt? Yes, I did. And should somebody be suspended for that? I don't know. I don't agree with what they did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Meanwhile, former Baltimore Ravens' player, Ray Rice, showed up at a high school football game in New Rochelle, New York this afternoon with the family in tow. Our Alexandra Field is there.

Alexandra, tell us what the reaction was.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Listen, Randi, this is the field where Ray Rice's football career really took off, and he returned here on the same week where a lot of people are saying that his career may have ended. There were rumors that he would show up here today. And that is exactly what he did. He arrived just at about the start of the New Rochelle game. He stood on the sidelines. He was closely circled by a group of close friends, his representatives, his wife was also on the sidelines, and at variety points, we saw some people stopped by to give him a hug or shake his hand. His coach also coming over here, talking to the press about what he thought of Ray Rice's decision to come out to the game today. We'll play that sound for you now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What having him here today means the world to me. I've known Ray Rice since in 8th grade and he had one misstep in the years that I've known him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FIELD: The coach told us he is telling his students, all these young members of the high school football team that looked up to Ray Rice, that the lesson here is that it is important to think before you act. He says that this is the important lesson that they can take away from that horrific videos of what happened inside the elevator that so many people saw.

The school principal also coming out here to acknowledged that this is Ray Rice's home. He was celebrated here for a long time. They say that he continues to be welcomed here. That said, Randi, the picture was taken off the wall of fame earlier this week, his jersey, his Ravens also removed from the wall of the gymnasium here in New Rochelle.

KAYE: He certainly show up there to get a warm welcome it seems from at least some of the folks.

Alexandra Field, thank you very much.

So a lot of people are starting to ask, did Ray Rice get suspended by the NFL for hitting his then fiance or was it for embarrassing the league? Which is it? That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: The NFL is taking a huge PR hit this week with the cases of Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson. But the question remains, is it just a few bad apples or is it the whole barrel? And what does the NFL need to do about it right now?

CNN legal analyst Mel Robbins joining me now. So, Mel, is there anything legally holding the NFL back from handing out tougher punishments, even firing some of the players?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, good afternoon, Randi. And, no, there is nothing holing them back because the NFL very much like the NBA when we were all discussing the Sterling debacle, has a constitution and bylaw. And in the constitution and bylaws, Randi, there's very specific player conduct code. And basically, if you engage in any conduct, Randi, that is detrimental or even risks the integrity of the NFL league, you violated the personal conduct policy, and you can be fired, and that goes for every employee. Players and for the commissioner himself who is also an employee.

So there's nothing that is in the way within the current bylaws of constitution that prevent the NFL who fire anything involved in any of the instances.

KAYE: And we are not even just talking about the Ravens, I mean, but the Panthers, Greg Hardy, he was convicted of domestic violence and he is appealing that conviction with a jury trial. You also have Ray McDonald with the 49ers not convicted, but the team is allowing him to still play while he fights it and figures out what happened there while they gather information. Does that make sense to you?

ROBBINS: Well, it does not make any sense to me. And let me explain why, Randi. The truth is that the NFL is not equipped, and they never will be equipped or qualified to investigate any kind of domestic violence or violence case outside of the NFL.

And there's a simple reason for it. These are very psychologically complicated cases between, you know, a partner and their significant other or their child, and there's a roller coaster that happens in terms of how the investigation goes forward with the police. And more importantly, and I think this is the -- this is the point that everybody needs to remember. It is never in the best interest of the NFL to find the truth in these cases. What's in the best interest of the NFL whose sole purpose is to put on football games and make millions and billions even of dollars is to have these situations disappear quietly off the radar screen and have people focus back on football.

There's no doubt in my mind, Randi, there's been a lot of people talking about did the commissioner lie now that he is saying that he was misled in the meeting he had with Ray Rice and his wife. You know who I'm talking about, the meeting they had in July. Well, I don't think he's lying. I think that the incident happened in February, Randi. Now, over five months later in July, the couple's gone through counseling. They want this thing behind us. I'm sure that Janay and Ray Rice made it seem clear like it was a big misunderstanding. Yes, Ray said he hit her, but she probably said she hit the elevator, she probably like the owners of the Ravens said with the feeling like there was mutual accountability. And that's the story the Ravens want.

KAYE: There's certainly a difference between saying we didn't have the information and we did have the information according to what Goodell has been saying. We don't know what he knew or what he was told at this point.

But let me ask you about Ray Rice because we saw images of him just before the break before we came to you. There he is at a high school football game in New Rochelle New York. I mean, is this damage control mode for him? ROBBINS: A hundred percent. I'm going to tell you right now, I'm

almost 100 percent as certain as I'm standing here talking to you right now, Randi, that he'll be back next year.

And if the narrative continues to be he made a mistake, he's not had anything else happen, his wife has forgiven him, they moved on, and he's done some things this year like show up and volunteer at his high school, talk to men about battering, and he's gone down the road of redeeming himself, America loves a comeback story. I certainly think he shouldn't be banned from the game if he does clean up his act and he tows the line.

Now somebody like Greg Hardy, this, to me, the guy on the Panthers who was convicted with felony domestic violence allegations this summer, the fact that he is still on the field is a total disgrace.

KAYE: Yes. He was convicted and given probation and some jail time even, but he is still on the field, as you said, Greg Hardy we're talking about.

All right, Mel Robbins, thank you very much, appreciate it.

ROBBINS: Great to talk to you.

KAYE: Turning back now to the fight against ISIS. Are they really the only threat to our nation in the Middle East, or could we find ourselves beating them only to face someone more deadly in the future?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: ISIS is one enemy, but there are several militant groups making power grabs in crucial parts of the Middle East and making threats against the U.S. Radical Islamists are taking territory and hostages threatening and killing locals, and upsetting very fragile balance of power. While on his trip to Egypt, Secretary Kerry emphasized how terrorist threats not just ISIS bleed across borders in the region.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: The fact is that in today's globalized world, it's only a matter of time before the threat of terrorism anywhere becomes a threat of terrorism everywhere. That is certainly been proven true in the case of ISIL.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Let me bring back the CNN national security animal cyst and former CIA operative Bob Baer.

So Bob, you heard it there. Is it realistic to expect a coalition against ISIS can be formed from countries in the region?

BAER: Well, I don't think we much of a choice. We need countries like Egypt. And let's not forget that they have a dire threat on their border and that's Libya. The Libyan jihads are well-armed, they kept surface to air missiles, they have got a lot of ammunitions and guns. They are training Egyptian militants to come back across the border. You have the Sinai which has a lot of militants still fighting. And you know, you just go right across the Middle East and northern Africa, even (INAUDIBLE) African, Boko Horam is the form of ISIS.