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New Video From ISIS Shows Beheading Of Third Man

Aired September 13, 2014 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Randi Kaye. CNN breaking news right now.

The militant group, ISIS, has done it again and executed a western hostage and put the graphic evidence on the Internet. The victim this time is a British aid worker named David Haines, 44-years-old. He was abducted a year and half ago while working to help refugees at camp in Syria. Haines is the third ISIS captive whose beheading was recorded and the video posted on the internet.

Both Haines and his killer spoke on camera. The mass executioner railing against Great Britain for its involvement in airstrikes against ISIS positions in Iraq. The video then shows another man, believe today be British citizen Alan Henning. ISIS militants then threaten his life.

The British government has reacted. Prime Minister David Cameron put this message on his official twitter account just a short time ago.

The murder of David Haines is an act of pure evil, he writes. My heart goes out to his family who have shown extraordinary courage and fortitude.

Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is joining me along with CNN national security analyst Bob Baer, CNN military analyst lieutenant colonel Rick Francona and Congressman Adam Schiff, a member of the House intelligence committee.

Nic, let me ask you about this meeting tomorrow, as they call it, the cover meeting that the British prime minister is holding, how critical is this?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's the most important security meeting that the prime minister can hold. He holds it at times like this whether where there are critical national security questions to be answered where actions may need to be taken very, very quickly. He will get briefings from all his top intelligence, military and home office officials. There will be others there at that meeting. So this will be a very important beginning of the day for him and being able, therefore, then, to set the agenda.

It's very likely that we would hear from David Cameron after that. And one of this other tweets this evening. He has also said that these people responsible for these crimes, these murders, will be brought to justice. Again, the apparent executioner in this video, the man who does the speaking with a knife in his hand, is the same man we've seen or appears to be the same man that we've seen or heard in the executions of James Foley, Steven Sotloff. He speaks with a British accent. It is a British victim and apparently, a British executioner. David Cameron will be holding that meeting in just a few hours from now, British time in the morning here -- Randi.

KAYE: And Bob Baer, let me ask you about that man who has been the executioner it seems in all of these videos, what do we know about him and is our intelligence getting any better?

ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, this is a British problem, MI5 in particular in Scotland Yard, following these radical groups. Many of them are south Asian, east of London, various cities in the suburbs there. They come from alienated communities. Very difficult to get in the inside. They are very hostile, the British government. And they found a cause in the Islamic state.

Now as far as identifying him by voice, I just don't know. But that is the way you would do it. As for a source, I doubt the British government has a source in this group. They have been able to get in touch with hostage holders, have learned this. They tried to negotiate with them through intermediaries in Turkey. They didn't think they were serious. They felt money wasn't going to make a difference. So they will have a vague idea who these people are. I think eventually they will find out one day and they we bring him to justice. But in the meantime, they have another British hostage which, you know, if things don't change very quickly, they will probably execute.

KAYE: What about in terms of the mission, Colonel Francona, I mean, does this obviously step it up a notch for those who are looking to battle ISIS and other countries who are considering getting involve.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it is certainly ratchets up the urgency of this. You will see the British are having their cobra meeting tomorrow. And we know that the U.S. is having a very similar meeting at the Pentagon, at the White House right now. And, although we probably have a timetable of how we wanted to prosecute this air campaign against both ISIS in Syria and Iraq, I think that's going to be moved to the front burner because there is going to catalyzed and galvanize public opinion in both countries. Hopefully, we won't react precipice will do this smartly.

Now, there are targets says that we need to hit. But we just didn't go blow things up to make us feel good tomorrow because they did this today. We need to look at the targets sets and take out rational target. There are those. And we developed the intelligence to that. I think it has already been done. We've been collecting intelligence for the last couple of months.

So I think you're going to see the plan move forward quite a bit. I think we are going to see operations in the skies fairly quickly because this is not going to stop. They are going to -- and I think Bob is right. I think it is very unfortunate but this is going to continue.

ISIS does this for a reason. This is a recruiting tool. And nothing brings success in their mind as these kinds of operations because we're seeing more radicalized people joining them all of the time. Look at the numbers, 10,000 to 31,000. This is astounding.

KAYE: Yes. In fact, I was going to ask about that, Representative Adam Schiff. Let me ask you because just this week, we're learning from the CIA telling CNN that they are now triple the number of ISIS fighters then we had originally thought. Did we miss something there?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Well, I think it is very difficult to be precise about the number of ISIL fighters. And I would take the numbers that we're getting now with a bit of the caution because part of what takes place is, you know, ISIL will take over a Sunni village and it was say you fight with us or we kill you.

And so, it is quite an effective press gang. Are those people dedicated ISIL fighters? Are there people that are going through the motions because they had to to survive? These are people who I think as we're seeing among some of the Sunnis in Iraq who can be quickly I hope peeled away from ISIL once we're able to put pressure, once we are able to change the political dynamic in Iraq, more difficult proposition in Syria where we don't have a friendly government.

But I think it points to the challenge of getting good, accurate numbers when we are -- you know, it is one thing to say foreign fighters. It's another to say that some of the Sunni villagers who take up or arms with ISIL because at the moment that's how they're running the place, just how dedicated they are to the fight.

KAYE: Our CNN correspondent Jomana Karadsheh in Baghdad?

Jomana, I mean, it is welcome news, are they hopeful there in Iraq that -- that more troops are coming, the announcement to 475 more troops? And also that maybe this might step up the airstrikes as well which Iraq has certainly been calling for?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. More airstrikes are welcome. The Iraqis, the time the timely airstrikes started in. Just a reminder, they really happened mostly concentrated in the northern part of the country. We've seen some take place as referenced by that execution on the video in Anbar province around the Haditha dam. But pretty much the airstrikes have been concentrated in the northern part of the country. They want to see more airstrikes and they do not want to see boots on the ground. They do not want to see combat troops here. They want more advisors and trainers.

Yes, they all agree on this. They know that the Iraqi security forces still have a long way to go. They need to restructure these forces again and really rebuild the forces. One thing, Randi, is Iraqi officials would tell you. You cannot look at the situation in Iraq, any airstrikes in Iraq in isolation to what is going in Syria. When the airstrikes bean here last month, we did see a soft in that momentum. It really halted those advances. But at the same time, ISIS in Syria was making great advances. They took over that last air base, that main air base, (INAUDIBLE) air base in Raqqa. They were making advances around Aleppo, too.

So the feeling here among politicians and top leaders is that more needs to be done. It has to be an international effort, a regional effort to stem the flow of foreign fighters, cut the funding. So a lot of elements that needs to come together and they also have to realize that they have a big part to play here on the political level to try and bring back the Sunnis and fight ISIS also on the ground because they realized the fight is there. And they keep saying, Iraq officials say, that we are the ones who are taking the fight to them, but we need the support and help to do this.

KAYE: Jomana Karadsheh there on the ground for us. Live from Baghdad.

Jomana, if you will, stay with us and also the rest of our panel as we continue to follow this breaking new, the execution of British citizen, David Haines. We will take more after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: And we continue to follow our breaking news, the video posted online just a short time ago, a British citizen David Haines, a British aid worker executed by ISIS. There is a part of the video right there. We are continuing now to discuss this with our panel.

Nic Robertson, senior international correspondent. Nic, I know that you had a question you wanted to open to the group about the infrastructure of ISIS.

ROBERTSON: Yes, so what I'd like for us to do is this. Look, we're talking here about camera (ph) getting more robust, possibly, bringing cooking further to this coalition, taking a more active position in Syria. We are also talking here about possibly exhilarating the timeline for strikes inside Syria. But my question is this. So OK, if ISIS has taken territory, they've got basis, they've got headquarters, if we, the coalition, target some of those locations, what is to stop president Bashar al-Assad sweeping in to take action on the ground? Because the more drawn rebels we want to support aren't really in shape or position to take advantage on the ground right now. How is that going to play out?

KAYE: Representative Schiff, why don't you take that?

SCHIFF: You know, I mean, it happen too. And I think it gets back to a point that the colonel is making earlier and that is we can't let these axis, barbarous as they are, provoke us into doing things that are going to be counterproductive. And one of the reasons why I don't think we are going to see the same kind of most fill (ph), aerial assault that we have going on in Iraq is precisely for the reason that we don't have a capable ground for us that can come in and occupy the ground if we displace ISIL from areas in Syria. And we don't want to do this to help Bashar al-Assad. We don't want to clear out ISIL so that al-Qaeda, al-Nusra, the actual franchise in Syria can move in. We don't want to this to help Hezbollah.

And so, I think initially, we may only see strikes that are on targeted particular military equipment or may infrastructure to help some derived oil revenues. But I think it will be much a much more limited targets set in what we see in Iraq.

And if I can make last point, Randi, we were talking earlier about the fact the administration has had that the threat from ISIL to Americans is not eminent. I think one of the consequences of that conclusion is that the president really can't rely on his article. Two powers commander in chief to order this expanded military campaign, this war campaign. That he really needs to come to Congress. And I think the administration's reliance on this 2001 authorization to use force really rests on a slender legal argument. So it is my hope, although it is not my expectation to be candid that Congress will take up a vote on an authorization to use force.

KAYE: All right. Colonel, why don't you weigh in on Nic Robertson's question about ISIS in Syria?

FRANCONA: Well, I think it's a valid point. The only one that's going to gain as we destroy ISIS right now is going to be either Al- Qaeda in Syria (INAUDIBLE) or the Bashar al-Assad government. Because the free Syrian army is not positioned defectively take advantage even in the destruction of ISIS because they're too far to the west and too far to the south.

So the initial benefactors of this are going to be the Islamic front or Jebhat al-Nusra, the victory front. It's going to be very problematic. But, at some point, you have to be willing to accept that as the consequence to do something against ISIS. We cannot let ISIS continue to run amuck in the eastern -- I mean, in eastern part of Syria.

KAYE: Bob Baer?

BAER: There is another point we have to consider and that is the longer ISIS goes on, the more it establishes itself, puts down roots and you know, sort of cuts out the opposition to an internal opposition, the longer staying power it's going to have. So we don't have all of the time in the world, you know. And the colonel is absolutely right. We cannot be in a position to let his (INAUDIBLE) from this or Bashar al-Assad, though the Bashar al-Assad is given the chance, he will massacre Sunnis as well. He's not a good guy.

And then there's always Iran which will take advantage of this, which is the last thing we want to happen, to see them move smartly in Iraq and Suma, you know, a control of the Shia areas.

KAYE: So, Bob, so those -- sticking with you for a second, is it a smart move to arm Syrian rebels?

BAER: You know, you can't sort them out. I have talked to people on the ground that do this. And you know, they will tell you things. And it's just like the hostages were taken and sold to ISIS. There's no way to control these arms just like in Afghanistan in the '80s. Once they go across the border, you can't do anything about it.

So, it is not like we can give a surface aired missiles or something like that and hope that they stand in the right hand. It's just a rat's nest. I am sympathetic to the administration trying to sort through this because there are no easy solutions. On the other hand, if we don't act fast, we really will have a caliphate in the Middle East.

KAYE: Nic?

ROBERTSON: Yes, to Bobs' point there. We have seen in the past few days, some of the smaller rebel groups aligning themselves with ISIS for strategic reasons in the suburbs and Damascus. There is a recent alliance made in the past couple of days where a rebel group that you might have wanted or thought was moderate that you might have wanted a fight against ISIS and our strategic interest in this neighborhood for us to not fight together. So we will just put like this. Can you control the weapons that you may give to that (INAUDIBLE) group on another day when they both agreed to attack the government check point not flowing to ISIS as well? We've seen it in (INAUDIBLE), the east of the country as well.

So they're a difficult, even really isolating ISIS on the ground from those that we want to support there as well. And it's very much beyond arm's length for us to actually control it there.

KAYE: We were talking to Jomana Karadsheh in Baghdad. She was saying, Colonel, about how they -- when they were advancing in to Syria while we are very focused on Iraq and how they were continuing to vent. ISIS was continuing to advance in Syria. You say we need to treat ISIS as one target, right, not in Iraq and not in Syria, but one target?

FRANCONA: Yes, exactly. For this is now ISIS in Iraq, ISIS is Syria, it's just one group. And they move as one group. So when they get stymied in Iraq, they move the other way. And they are trying to grab as much territories they can. So when they ran into resistance in the east, they move to the west. I mean, they are much further than that graphic might show. You know, lines going out in all different directions. The problem is as I understand that the Iraqis do not want us to have been in army about the patient. But -- and the Iraqis at some point will stand up and then take the offensive again.

The problem is, this all takes time. And time is what we do not have. So we have to operate against ISIS in both areas, Syria and Iraq. And as you heard from everybody here that said all these different alliances and groups in Syria, the situation in Syria makes Iraq look positively organized.

KAYE: Yes, it certainly does.

All right, we are going to take a quick break. We will continue this discussion and we will continue following this breaking news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back everyone. We are continuing to follow this breaking news, the execution, the beheading of British citizen David Haines, just getting this video that was posted on the Internet by ISIS once again, now the third posting of a video like this.

We want to take a moment now for a closer look at who Davis Haines was.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): David Haines was a father and a husband. But he was also a hostage of ISIS, the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. Captured in March 2013, working at a Syrian refugee camp for French aid group Acted.

Haines had more than a decade of experienced doing aide work providing logistics to handicapped international and working as unarmed peacekeeper. It was a nonviolence peace force. He grew up in Scotland, proudly bringing quilt for his wedding.

His family had declined to comment. But their plight is clear online. His wife, Dragana, waits with their 4-year-old daughter in Croatia where they live. His teenage daughter from his first marriage makes it clear online how much she misses her father by answering just three questions. What is missing in your life that would make you very happy? My dad being at home, she answers.

As his family waited, David Haines had become a pond in the game of hostages now played by ISIS.

Atika Shubert, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: Such tragic news. I want to discuss this with our panel here because another citizen is certainly having his life threaten at this hour. That would be British citizen Alan Henning who in that 27 second video was also mentioned as the next hostage to be killed if they do that. In each video they bring the next one into the picture and threaten his life.

And so, Representative Adam Schiff, let me ask you, because in the case of James Foley, his mother, one of the journalist who the first to be beheaded bi ISIS on video. In his case, his mother just spoke with Anderson Cooper here at CNN exclusively this week. And she said that the administration, the Obama administration and the U.S. government had actually threatened their family. They told them not to reach out -- warned them, I should say, maybe not threatened, warned them not to reach out. But this, say that they could be prosecuted for even trying to negotiate or do anything on behalf of James Foley.

I'm not sure if you can speak to how the British government would handle this. But in terms of intelligence, what could be done right and what might be done in terms of how the British government and Alan Henning's family, the next citizen whose life is being threaten, what is being done right now and how do you think the British government will handle this if Alan Henning's family would like to get involve?

SCHIFF: Well, I'm sure they are exploring every means possible to try to determine whether they can get a fix on the location of the remaining hostages. As you know we embark on the effort to a freedom and rescue them in what was a very risky operation for our president to authorize. It out a lot of our special forced at risk, deep in the middle of ISIL territory. That could have turned out very badly.

It turned out tragically in the sense that the hostages weren't there anymore. But there could have been a significant loss of American lives in that rescue attempt and that is not something undertaken lightly. So I'm sure the British are working with us to try to determine, is there any possible way to free these hostages while I'm sure ISIL is trying to move them around and make that very difficult to achieve. So I'm not sure what options there are. It is a deplorable situation. But I think ISIL will only use his hostages through their propaganda value through the opportunity to recruit people by publishing these videos, as well as the chance that they can provoke us into doing something that would be against our interest, introducing ground forces and having an opportunity to kill Americans on the ground.

KAYE: Let me share with the group this statement just in from the White House from the president of the United States on the death of David Haines. The statement reads, the United States strongly condemned the barbaric murder of United Kingdom citizen David Haines by the terrorist group ISIL. Our hearts go out to the family of Mr. Haines and to the people of United Kingdom. The United States stand shoulder-to-shoulder tonight with our close friends and ally in Greece and resolve. We will work with United Kingdom and a broad coalition of nations from the region and around the world to bring the perpetrators of this outrageous act of justice and to degrade and destroyed this threat to the people of our country, the region and the world.

Representative Schiff, what do you make of that?

SCHIFF: I think the president said it very well. It's just heartbreaking to hear from the parents and the family, or, in this case, the daughter of one of the victims. It's just a crushing blow to the humanity, really. And I think it has to steal our resolve to confront this evil, seldom does that works seem entirely appropriate and non hyperbolic but it certainly does hear. It can't be much better description than evil for what these people are doing.

KAYE: Colonel Francona, you said something to me during the break that I found so interesting. You said ISIS is building a coalition for us.

FRANCONA: Yes, I got an email from intelligence officer, friend of mine. And she said that it's almost as if they want this coalition to build. They want to have the battle and I think we were talking about that in the previous hour that they are trying to do this for us that we will get people there on the ground. And as the Congressman says, it gives them the opportunity to fight us on the ground.

They know that they are going to suffer very badly with the allied air power. They want to get us on the ground where they believe that they would have a fighting chance to kill as many of us as they can. And I think they are pushing toward that because I think they realized that if we don't get in there on the ground, we are going to do a lot of damage hit them from the air.

KAYE: Nic, I know you wanted to ask another question with the group. I guess it has to do with why can't we just resolve this? And I know you had a question about that:

ROBERTSON: Well, one of the things that occurs to me, and, I think we have all seen this and we have all studies what happened in Afghanistan and Pakistan where al-Qaeda and terrorist organizations have links across the border where they will support it on either side of the border by sympathetic tribes. You now have Islamic state on both sides of the border in Syria and in Iraq.

Being a nonmilitary person, one thing that strikes me is why don't you take control of the border again? But I guess the broader question here is what have we learned in Afghanistan and Pakistan that we can apply to resolving? It is maybe apples and oranges to a degree. But there are similarities. What have we learned that we can apply here?

KAYE: Bob Baer, do you want to pick that up?

BAER: Well, I go back to the problem is when you have this combat zones failed states like tribal areas at Pakistan and Afghanistan, it genders Islam. It makes things worse. And the longer it goes on, the more training you get. The first world trade center bombing, the people there got their training in Afghanistan and Beirut and it starts to spread out until you actually have state control and good governance in this places. It is almost impossible to suppress terrorism. We like the work terrorism, but it is something more basic in that chaos and gender. It is chaos. And you know, as far as the borders goes between Syria and Iraq, there is no border just like Afghanistan, you go back and forth. And if we go after ISIL and Iraq, that simply moves across the border.

And it is the same way in a lot of other borders in the region. You -- the Saudi borders and all that well protected either. And you also have the Iranian border and you go on and on and on. The question is what is the speed of chaos or will it burn itself out.

KAYE: We are going to pick up the rest of that conversation. The rest of you will get a moment to think about while we take a quick break and we will pick up the responses to Nic's question right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Hello, everyone. Glad you're with us. I'm Randi Kaye here in New York.

Breaking news tonight, and ISIS video released today appears to show the terrorist group has executed another hostage, British aid worker David Haines. The video, entitled a message to the allies of America, was posted to Twitter today and look similar to previous videos we saw showing the beheadings of American journalist James Foley and Steven Sotloff. The executioner who sounds like the same man who appear in his

previous videos, directly threatens British Prime Minister David Cameron.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your evil alliance with America which continues to strike the Muslims of Iraq and most recently from the Haditha dam will only accelerate your destruction and playing the role of the obedient (INAUDIBLE) Cameron, will only drag you and your people into another bloody and unwinnable war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Haines was helping to provide humanitarian relief in Syria when he was abducted last year, March 2013. The 44-year-old is a long-time aid worker who has helped victims of conflicts since 1999. According to a Paris-based relief organization, that is the information on him.

And joining me now on the panel here, senior international correspondent Nic Robertson, CNN military analyst lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, CNN national security analyst Bob Baer, Jomana Karadsheh in Baghdad, CNN correspondent and Christopher Dickey as well who is the foreign editor for "the Daily Beast."

I wanted to pick up on Nic's question before we went in to the break on why can't we just put people on the border to help solve this? Colonel Francona, why don't you answer that?

FRANCONA: Well, as Bob said, these borders doesn't exist anymore as far as ISIS is concern. You know, when ISIS made their move to the east, they went after specific targets, one of the most the border cross. It was pretty much eliminate that border from all the way from the north to the south. They went after the oil fields and we went after the dam. (INAUDIBLE) they were looking forth. So that border doesn't exist in their mind. However, they know that it is still existed in our minds. So we are making a big distinction between what is going in Iraq and what is going on in Syria. And they believe that as long as they move into Syria, they are safe. Because we've always said we are not, you know, we'll take action against Syria and make a distinction between that and Iraq. I think that we would be wise not recognized that border either.

KAYE: Christopher Dickey, I mean, you saw what happened after the execution, the beheadings and the videos that followed of the two American journalists and what sort of how that affected the Obama administration and the urgency in terms of fighting ISIS. How do you expect this will affect David Cameron's decision, not only in terms of joining the coalition, but taking the fight to ISIS?

CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, FOREIGN EDITOR, THE DAILY BEAST (via phone): Well, I think the British people were sick of war in Iraq and Afghanistan as the American people were. But it is absolutely stunning, the change of opinion in the United States since the beheading. If you think that a year ago, I think only 30 percent of the American people in that range supported the idea of using airstrike in Syria to stop the acquisition and use of chemical weapon which we knew the Assad regime had, nobody wanted to that. Nobody wanted any part of the Middle East in war again.

Now, 71 percent of the American people support airstrikes against ISIS in Iraq and 65 percent support them in Syria. That is a huge turn around. And the big question is, will there be that kind of turnaround in Britain as well. And my guess is that there will be. But it is conceivable that in a country which has a very large Muslim population, in a country that has a lot of other problems including the threat (INAUDIBLE) Scottish succession, maybe it won't happen. But I expect it will.

KAYE: Jomana in Baghdad for us Jomana Karadsheh, what are you expecting to hear from the people there? I mean, how much do they want and need Britain to get involve as well.

KARADSHEH: They need as much support as they can get. They are waiting for every country possibly in the region especially to also assist with it. One really important thing here, Randi, is all these efforts we are seeing recently. They are being welcomed by Iraqi officials saying there's this sense of finally now, the world is really waking up to this threat that we have been talking about for awhile. This is really the feeling here.

One thing though, they feel a key player in this region is being left out and that is Iran. There's this feeling that, yes, the Sunni Arab country is in the region. The Gulf country is the neighboring country whether it is Turkey, Jordan, Saudi, everyone is being involved in this coalition. But at least publicly they don't feel there is enough being done to throw Iran into this for two important reasons. A lot of it -- there is a feeling that those sectarian tensions, the proxy war between Iran and the Sunni powers like Saudi Arabia plays itself out here and fuels the sectarian violence with Iran financing and training and arming of the Iranian backed Shia militia. So there is this feeling that you need to bring Iran in. And also there is feeling, some of the officials that I have spoken to say, they are concern of the U.S. does not really involve Iran, that this could also put U.S. advisors who were on the ground here and will be increasing in number at risk too, targeted in the past by Iranian backed militias.

KAYE: Certainly, we talked a lot about the coalition and a lot about airstrikes and a lot about what we are going to do to stop ISIS.

But Nic, I mean, certainly, the story here in -- the underlying issue is the hostages and American lives, British lives, other lives at risk. What do you know about other hostages being held by ISIS and certainly about the British citizen Alan Henning whose life was threaten in this video execution of David Haines.

ROBERTSON: Yes. We believe Alan Henning is also an aid worker like David Haines. We believe that he was from the (INAUDIBLE) in the sort of little north of England. But we have a very, very few details about him. There are several of the hostages being held, both U.S. citizens and

British citizens. There are other nationalities there as well being held, and Turkish among them in quite a large number. But there are also some other western nations, people, from the western nations are being held hostage by ISIS.

But really, the control of the moment, of the destiny of those hostages is very much in ISIS' hands and they do appear in tense on just going through them one by one by one as they see fit on a time that leads their agenda despite appeals made by all the families of all those people who have been killed so far.

So for Alan Henning at the moment, the prognosis and outlook without anything else changing at the moment does not appear to be a positive one.

KAYE: No, it certainly does. The timing, you know, as we saw from James Foley and Steven Sotloff being beheaded was two weeks. And now it's been 11 days since David Haines' life was threatened on that last video with Steven Sotloff. So you can only imagine how the family of Alan Henning is feeling right now.

Bob Baer, let me ask you about the intelligence. Are you satisfied with the intelligence that as far as what the U.S. has on ISIS both in Iraq and Syria?

BAER: No, it is inadequate and for a very good reason. It is not the fault for the intelligence community. One is we close out embassy in Damascus. You know, the state department collect basic intelligence and neither can the CIA in Baghdad were limited to the green zone effectively. You can't get out. You can't get into the key areas Ramadi (ph) Fallujah, Mosul of course. And then you are stock in the Kurdish areas.

And frankly, it is very clear to me that the Baghdad government wasn't aware this attack by ISIS was going to happen on Mosul. So even they didn't know. And it is pretty much black hole what is happening in that part of the world of failed rescue mission. And even Jordan who is usually very good at this, I was told, their written only goes about 50 miles into Iraq and probably 50 miles into Syria which isn't far. So it is just a lot of gas work and you are dealing with overhead photography in what telephone intercept you can give. But remember, the telephones are mostly down in that part of the world.

And again, they are using encryption and all sort of other techniques to avoid the national security agency which makes it very difficult to estimate their strength and their next moves.

KAYE: What's fascinating is this cobra meeting that, Nic. You were talking about, this urgent meeting that David Cameron is going to be holding tomorrow to figure out, I guess what to do next.

Colonel Francona, let me ask you. I mean, what would Britain's option be at this point?

FRANCONA: Well, you know, the British have, you know, a one excellent air force. They got great military forces that they are not deployed. And they need to do something militarily, they need to deploy to the area. It would be great to have a commitment from the British to actually participate on this. I know there has been a lot of discussion in London about what they are going to do.

At one point they said airstrikes into Syria were off the table. Then the prime minister said well, no, we can talk about that. It would be interesting to see what they come up with after this situation. I suspect that we are going to see a little more willingness of the British to participate. And it is critical that they do because we don't want this to be an American show. This needed to be an allied show. And as Jomana mentioned earlier, you know, where are that Saudis? Where are the Jordanians? It is the threat to them as well.

So, I think as far as the British go, I think we are going to see a lot more resolve on the part of the British and I suspect to see a decision fairly soon.

KAYE: S much more to talk about on this breaking news, the beheading and the video posted online of British citizen David Haines. We will continue to discuss that here covering all angles here on CNN. So keep it here and we will talk more right after this break.

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KAYE: Good evening once again. The breaking news that we're following is the beheading by ISIS of another person, British citizen, David Haines, executed by ISIS forces and that video posted online once again. Now, the White House is reacting tonight, issuing a statement from the president just a few moments ago. It reads the United States strongly condemns the barbaric murder of UK citizen David Haines by the terrorist group, ISIL. Our hearts go out to the family of Mr. Haines and to the people of the United Kingdom.

The United states stand shoulder to shoulder tonight with our close friend and ally in grief and resolve. We will work with United Kingdom and broad coalition of nations from the region and around the globe -- around the world, excuse me, to bring the perpetrators of this outrageous act to justice and to degrade and destroy this threat to the people of our country, the region and the world. That is the stamen from the White House tonight.

Christopher Dickey, the foreign editor for "the Daily Beast" is on the line for us joining us as part of our panel as we continue to discussion.

Christopher, let me ask you about the president there because he is issuing that statement saying that continue to work with the partners around the world. But what is the red line for the president? I mean, are we going to eventually see some mission creep here? Are we going to see the U.S. and possibly others occupying Iraq, Syria? What's next?

DICKEY: Well, I don't think we'll see that any time soon. Not if this president can avoid it. I think it really is the red line for the idea of occupied and local country and Arab country. Actually, occupying any other country, I think he understands this is very, very bad idea. And we have seen more of the results put them of the occupation of Iraq that started in 2003.

But I think that there's a lot that the president cannot say. And when he posted this (INAUDIBLE) about building coalition and giving our partners just get along side us, there are two big problems that (INAUDIBLE). One of the big problems is that the members of this coalition, the Arab and Muslim members of this coalition hate each other. I heard some talk about framing Iran and to be more of a player. One of the reasons with ISIS is it strong that is. It is because of Sunni is a region, with Sunnis of Iraq especially. Again, to feel that nobody was going to stand up to Iran and ISIS came along and said, we will not only stand up to Iran. We will slaughter the Shiites who were sympathetic to Iran. So that is a huge problem.

The other problem is the problem is the problem if borders, in fact, the borders of the Middle East are being redrawn right now. The administration is in the terrible position where it has to stay it is defending the sanctity borders that were drawn at the World War I when in fact, those borders are not holding together at all. The question is, is the United States going to ignore them? Almost certainly it will. But it can't say that because if you open the door to redrawn he borders of the Middle East, It is the Pandora's Box and the probable spread throughout the region.

KAYE: Nic Robertson, our chief international correspondent is also with us. Nic, let me ask you, because you have done -- you have covered al-Qaeda extensively. How do you see ISIS and al-Qaeda -- I mean, are there any similarities and what are the key differences, would you say? And the key threat?

ROBERTSON: Well, the Islamic state is more barbaric. They seem to care less for broader public opinion, not particularly that al-Qaeda did. But at least al-Qaeda and Iraq when their leaders, (INAUDIBLE) who was beheading people, he toned it down and that stops happening after criticism coming from the deputy chief, now, the chief of al- Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahiri.

So there is that difference, ISIS is more blunt thirsty (ph). It appears they are achieving some of the things that al-Qaeda wanted to. They have learned from al-Qaeda. They have learned lessons. They have been in preparation growing in Iraq being sort of squeeze and crashed in Iraq then coming back again. They had military expertise. They had a strategy when they went into Syria. They use Syria to develop a base. They spread back in to Iraq again taking control of aerials there.

This is al-Qaeda where it wanted to be. ISIS is that now. They have a tail, a caliphate. This is a big rallying cold there, rallying more people to them that al-Qaeda was ever able to live. This is a far more extremist organization with an agenda that it is far more advanced an al-Qaeda has ever was.

KAYE: Bob Baer, what is the attraction for young men and women who are looking to be radicalized? Why ISIS? BAER: It is an identity they can transfer from whatever society they

are alienated from, whether it is from Saudi Arabia or Britain and this looks like the real thing to them that they can take part in. That alienated youth, if you like. And it is a weak word, but it is the best I can come up with. And the fact is that the Islamic state is effectively as state. It is not recognized by anybody. But it owns property unlike al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda, it was very much want-to-bes that ran a violence. These people seem to have a staff or something.

You also have to, you know, consider what Chris Dickey said. And that is the Middle East is no more as we know it. These borders are not coming back. I just don't ever see it coming back together as a country. And even Iraq, maybe as well, and certainly not Libya and a couple of other places. And I think what we don't want to do is be in the position of holding the old borders together and using violence to do that. We clearly need to suppress this group and have something replace it. But we can't be defending border that are no longer defensible.

KAYE: Yes. Certainly a huge task in trying to defeat and destroy, as the president says, this group ISIS.

I want to thank our panel, all of you, for such an intelligent conversation and for weighing in on this tragic news, the beheading of David Haines, a British citizen.

I'm Randi Kaye. Thanks so much for watching tonight. And don't forget, CNN.com has all the details n the beheading of British hostage of David Haines. You can find out who Haines was and how British Prime Minister David Cameron is responding to his death and the threats from ISIS militants. So check out CNN.com anytime for the very latest on this and news around the world.

Once again, I'm Randi Kaye in New York. Stay with CNN tonight, our breaking news coverage continues with Jonathan Mann right after a very quick break.

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