Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Beheading Puts U.K. Deep into ISIS Fight; ISIS Fighters Captured in Iraq

Aired September 14, 2014 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: And perhaps no country is more outraged and horrified by this recent video than the U.K. Not only was the victim a Brit, but it appears his executioner is, too, underscoring the national threat. Prime Minister David Cameron says while there won't be British boots on the ground in Iraq, the U.K. won't be taking this fight lying down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: There is no option of keeping our heads down that would make us safe. The problem would merely get worse as it has done over recent months, not just for us but for Europe and for the world. We cannot just walk on by if we are to keep this country safe. We have to confront this menace. Step by step, we must drive back, dismantle, and ultimately destroy ISIL and what it stands for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Meantime, another U.S. ally, Australia, is offering not just air support, but a 600 strong force made up of air force personnel and special forces soldiers.

Just a short time ago, the United Nations Security Council released its state on the brutal on-camera death of David Haines. The council members express their belief that ISIS must be destroyed and they said this, quote, "This crime is the tragic reminder of the increasing dangers humanitarian personnel face every day in Syria. It also once again demonstrates the brutality of ISIL, which is responsible for thousands of abuses against the Syrian and Iraqi people."

With me now, CNN national security analyst, Peter Bergen, and our military analyst, retired Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona.

Peter, let me start with you. The man beheaded by ISIS this weekend was a British citizen, as we've said. Talk to us a little bit about how deeply this pushes the U.K. into this fight.

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think Prime Minister David Cameron understands some things that are pretty disturbing.

First of all, the British guy who beheaded both the two American journalists and the British aid worker is somebody who's known to the British intelligence services. His identity is known. He's part of a group sometimes referred to as "The Beatles", that was the names their captives gave them and he's one of, you know, 500 Brits who have gone to Syria to fight. Not all of them are fighting with ISIS, but if you look at the numbers of Americans who have gone, we're looking at 100.

The population, Randi, of Britain is a fifth the size of the United States. So, in fact, you have 25 -- if you look at the rate of which Brits are going, they're going 25 times the rate that Americans are going to Syria. And it's impossible to detract 500 people when and if they return to the United Kingdom. That's a very large number of people.

And, of course, you know, it's -- this Brit is -- the beheader has killed citizens of America, of the country's closest ally, the United States, and there are other western hostages. I mean, CNN is not identifying who they are, but they are known to be held by ISIS, citizens of other Western countries including Americans. And, you know, the prospect for this ending badly is unfortunately quite large.

You know, there was a rescue operation on July 4th by Joint Special Operations Command. It didn't get to the right place. The hostages are being taken. You know, rescue operations are fraught with difficulties.

KAYE: Absolutely.

Colonel Francona, let me ask you, because talking about the U.K.'s involvement, I mean, now David Cameron is promising to work alongside the U.S. in, quote, "direct military action against ISIS." So is this commitment, would you say, only since the murder of David Haines?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Prime Minister Cameron has been pretty steadfast all along, what he wants to do. But he has to get the approval of his parliament. You know, remember, he got burned last September when he wanted to contribute with the United States and he was rebuffed by his parliament, so he doesn't want to make that mistake again. But he was pretty forceful in his statement yesterday as we heard, and I think he really is committed to do this.

I know his foreign minister said that one time there will be no British air operations over Syria, and he walked that back. So I think the prime minister, himself, is very committed. It's just what can he get his government to do?

KAYE: And Peter, what do we know about, I guess, what British officials know and what they're works on in terms of finding out more about this executioner? I mean, how close are they to learning his name and anything else about him?

BERGEN: Well, I'm confident that they know his identity. I mean, voice analysis is very straightforward. The technology has been around for decades now. And so, they are not revealing his identity for operational concerns. They -- you know, I mean, there's a sound reason not to reveal his identity, but they certainly know who it is.

KAYE: And, Colonel, what about the westerners? Hundreds of people now from North America, Europe, fighting in Syria for whatever reason they've decided to join this fight. What sort of problem do they pose for our efforts and for the coalition efforts?

FRANCONA: Well, it's a real problem, simply because if you don't know who they are, and they go and get this training, they get the experience, and they want to bring the jihad back to their home country, they can just get off the plane and walk right through immigration. So, there's very little control on them. So, that's why it's very essential that our intelligence and security services are able to figure out who they are before they go. Maybe even stop them before they go, but once they're there, figure out who they are and get them when they come back.

Otherwise, you've got people running around with the training and the capabilities and you're not even aware that they exist. So, it's a real problem. It's something I think we're trying to address, but in these free societies, you have to be very careful. Someone can get on a plane and go to Turkey. That doesn't make them a potential recruit.

KAYE: Right. Right. Peter, do you agree?

BERGEN: Yes. I mean, the numbers, Randi -- I reported today on CNN.com a British assessment of the numbers. We're looking at 700 from France, 300 to 500 from Belgium, 400 from Germany, 130 from Sweden, around 100 in Denmark.

You know, when you total up all these numbers, 60 from Australia, 100 from Canada, you come to the number of 2,600 at a minimum, is the British government's assessment. That's a lot of people. We've already seen some of these returnees from Syria conduct a terrorist attack on may 24th killing four at the Jewish museum in Brussels.

KAYE: Right.

BERGEN: It's not an academic concern, but it's also, I think as Lieutenant Colonel Francona kind of indicated -- I mean, every government around Europe and everybody I've spoken to in the national security apparatus of the governments -- I mean, this is their number one concern. People are all over this like a wet blanket. Particularly, I think, you know, the United States, the numbers are small. The numbers who have joined ISIS is only a dozen. We need to have some perspective here about the level of threat particularly in the United States which I think is relatively low. The threat to countries like France, Britain, and Belgium, that's certainly hire.

KAYE: Yes.

All right. Peter, Colonel, stay with us here, because coming up, an alleged ISIS fighter captured by Iraqi soldiers reveals how he was recruited into the terror group.

And later on, off the field violence forces the NFL to do some-soul searching. We'll look back at the league's very rough week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KAYE: We've seen the ISIS brutality play out in high definition. Who are these extremists? And what possesses someone to embrace an ideology so inhumane?

CNN's Jomana Karadsheh brings us face to face with an ISIS fighter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A rare video from Iraq's defense ministry showing its troops in action this week capturing a man they say is an ISIS foreign fighter near the Haditha dam, scene of recent U.S. airstrikes and Iraqi ground operations.

"This is an ISIS fighter. He's come here in search of heaven," this local tribesman says, mocking the jihadi ideology.

"He's come here to kill Iraqis. We are your brothers. Our religion is not like yours, you murderous criminals. We are the real Muslims," he tells him.

The militant says he is from Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

His capture, according to the ministry of defense, was part of an intelligence-led operation earlier this week tracking a convoy of more than 150 ISIS fighters crossing into Iraq's Anbar Province from Syria.

Vehicles destroyed, bodies strewn in this western desert, the Saudi fighter and another from Tajikistan in Iraqi custody.

On Thursday, Iraq's state TV broadcast their confessions obtained by the Iraqi military. CNN cannot verify the conditions under which these confessions were obtained.

The Saudi, identified as Hamad al-Tamimi, known by his nom de guerre Abu Walid (ph) explaining how he ended up in Iraq.

Al-Tamimi is just 18, a first year religious studies college student. Like many of ISIS's recruits, he says he was influenced and recruited by jihadists online.

In July, he traveled from Saudi to Kuwait, and from there onto Turkey, a main route for jihadists into Syria.

Al-Tamimi describes his journey -- handlers who met him in Syria took away his passport and phone. He spent a week, he estimates, with 270 fresh fighters.

HAMAD YAHYA AL-TAMIMI, ALLEGED ISIS MILITANT (through translator): There are many nationalities -- from Norway, from America, Canada, Somalia, Korea, China, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Lebanon and other European countries such as Germany and France.

KARADSHEH: None used their real names, like him, all young he says.

TAMIMI; From Germany, I knew Abu Hamza (ph). And from Britain, one named Abu Dawoud (ph). And from America, one named Abu Ibrahim (ph).

KARADSHEH (on camera): After 22 days at a religious indoctrination camp, al- Tamimi says he had to swear allegiance to ISIS's leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

Next, nine days of military training in al Raqqa, ISIS's main stronghold in Syria.

(voice-over): After a short time fighting in Aleppo, orders came to move across the essentially non-existent border into Iraq. The battle around Haditha needed reinforcement.

Less than two months since his journey began, this is where his short- lived jihad ended. Al-Tamimi now says he just wants to go back home, but fighters like him coming back home is something many nations now fear the most.

Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: So, the question is, how much can the Iraqis and the U.S. learn from these captured is fighters? Our experts weigh in, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: The world has seen them, horrific video and picture propaganda cranked out by ISIS fighters in Syria and Iraq. But the question remains why is this inspiring young people around the world to join the ranks of ISIS?

Let me bring back in, CNN military analyst and former U.S. military attache in Syria, retired Lieutenant Colonel Francona, and CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen.

Peter, let me start with you here. I mean, this ISIS fighter captured by the Iraqis that we just saw there before the break in that story, so young and yet so emboldened in the cause. Why is that? What's the attraction?

BERGEN: Well, yes, I think a combination of things. First of all, you know, Assad is imposing a totalitarian war on his Sunni population. He's an Alawite, which is regarded a heresy even within the Shia community. And he's also a secular dictator. So, he's also regarded as an apostate, which makes it sort of a trifecta in terms of -- that's why you're seeing this tremendous energy of people going to join.

Then, you have, you know, ISIS' social media campaigns, which Al Qaeda's videos are very boring. We have Ayman al Zawahiri, just about 10 days ago, deliver a 50-minute lecture, but the camera was static, where ISIS, like they said, like music videos that are well-produced. They show tanks. You know, it's exciting stuff.

But, Randi, one of the interesting things about the fact that he was Saudi, I found interesting because earlier this year, the Saudis really criminalized any of their citizens going to fight for these groups, they criminalized groups like al Qaeda. Fatwas were issued by senior Saudi clerics, saying that going to these conflicts was against Islam. And I think the Saudis have really tried to clamp down, but obviously still people are getting through.

KAYE: Colonel, why is there such a deep hatred for America?

FRANCONA: We represent everything that is anathema to their brand of Islam, especially in Saudi Arabia. They're indoctrinated with this very conservative brand, the Wahhabi sect of Islam. So, it's ingrained in them from day one and everything about the West is bad and we represent everything that's the worst of the worst.

So, it's not unusual. And, of course, if you listen to what he said when he was being interrogated, he pretty much self-radicalized. Much of this was done online and it's very slickly done. You remember Anwar al Awlaki was very good at this. He was radicalizing Americans by using the Internet, and we saw how that turned out with Major Hasan Nidal.

So --

KAYE: Yes, it certainly has an impact for sure.

But, Peter, how much can the Iraqis learn from someone like this captured fighter? What can they get from him?

BERGEN: I don't think that much. For start, he's a foot soldier. It's not like he's going to know strategy.

And this was clear from the piece, you know, they all use these cunas (ph), which are sort of Islamic nicknames, Abu this, Abu that. No one uses their real name.

So, yes, he might have met 200 people and it's interesting that he met a lot of Europeans and Americans and other nationalities. But he can't really tell you about who they really are. So, my guess is he has a straw's-eye view, pretty limited. You know, it gives you a sense of the kind of recruit, where the pipeline -- but we know where the pipeline is coming. Most of it is coming through Turkey and Turkey is beginning to crack down. It understands this is really a problem.

So, my guess is, you know, they learn something, it's atmospherics. It's not like they captured Abu Baghdadi or some senior ISIS commander who has a sense of what the overall strategy is.

KAYE: You want to add to that?

FRANCONA: And you can see how he was treated. He was given basic rudimentary training and then sent out to the front lines. He's expendable, he's cannon fodder.

KAYE: What about recruiting? I mean, when you put a brutal murder of a Westerner on videotape, and it's so highly produced, how does that help in terms of recruiting? FRANCONA: Well, if you're of the mind to be radicalized, this is --

this is epitome of what the jihad is. They're taking the fight to the Westerners. These are infidels and how infidels are treated.

I mean, this is -- if you're of that mindset, this is the highest you can aspire to. It really resonates with people that are in this radical mindset.

KAYE: Peter, I know you agree with that.

BERGEN: Well, actually I was going to say something slightly different, which is, I think these beheadings are the beginning of the end for ISIS. I mean, when historians write the history of this period, it's the beheadings that really energized the United States and United Kingdom and its allies to really do something about this.

So, I think it will be sort of a tactical victory for them that will be seen as a strategic defeat in the medium and long term.

KAYE: All right. Thank you both for sharing that. Colonel, Peter Bergen, thank you very much.

Coming up, David Haines is the third hostage murdered by ISIS in the last few weeks. We'll take a closer look at why negotiation efforts have failed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: David Haines, a 44-year-old British citizen, went to Syria to help people displaced by civil war.

Now, he is dead and in the most gruesome way imaginable, executed by a notorious militant group on video. David Haines is the third Western man held captive by ISIS to be killed in such a manner.

Tom Fuentes is with us now. He's a former deputy director of the FBI.

Tom, a few angles that I want to cover with you here. First, the U.S. government and now the British government have not been able to save these hostages' lives. Why is this group so tough to deal with unlike other hostage taking groups like al Nusra?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, al Nusra is a much milder version of extremism, I guess is the best way to put it. And I think al Nusra wanted to separate themselves from ISIS by releasing the hostage, Peter Curtis, a couple weeks ago. From ISIS' perspective, they want to do the horrific killings. They don't want to negotiate. They don't want to have this be resolved. They don't want to look weak. And the more horrific the killings are, almost the better it helps their recruiting, and, you know, what they're trying to accomplish on a worldwide basis.

So, they have no desire to resolve these issues and, you know, you have the example of the mothers sending impassioned pleas to them on humanitarian grounds, on Muslim grounds, citing -- you know, citing the faith as to why ISIS shouldn't kill their sons. They couldn't wait. They executed them almost immediately after receiving the messages.

KAYE: Yes, and enemy that doesn't want to cooperate is a great enemy.

Let me ask you about airstrikes, too. There's already been about 150 American air strikes in Iraq. We don't know when they're going to start inside Syria. But how well the campaigns do you think be different in those two countries?

FUENTES: I think the problem, from my perspective, is that air strikes in Syria, we have to avoid happening to us what happened to Israel when they conducted air strikes in Gaza. Hamas put their own citizens up as human shields, and as soon as Israel intensified the campaign of air strikes, then shortly after, you see all the little babies laid out in the streets. You know, that there are killed by those air strikes.

Because they're hiding the weaponry in mosque and in schools and in hospitals, and that's my fear in Syria is that if ISIS is completely embedded, you can take out a tank or an armored car because there's nowhere to hide it, but the actual soldiers of ISIS are with the population and it's going to be very hard, I think, to surgically remove ISIS when they're embedded in a population.

KAYE: Let's talk John Kerry, secretary of skate. He's putting together a coalition, so far 10 Arab states have signed on, including Saudi Arabia. What are the Saudis willing to do and I guess not do as part of this coalition?

FUENTES: I don't know. The Saudis have always been an interesting dilemma for the United States going back to 9/11, the original hijackers were mostly Saudi. The funding for terrorism, a lot of that has come out of Saudi Arabia over the years. Saudi Arabia funds madrassas in Pakistan that preach hate, particularly of the United States. And yet, the Saudis eventually became victimized by some elements of al Qaeda in their own country.

When the Saudis got tough for a while back in 2003, you know, many of the al Qaeda members in Saudi Arabia fled across the border into Yemen and became al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

So, Saudi Arabia has at times been very cooperative, at other times, it's been questionable. And, again, the extremist version, much of the basis in fate, comes from the Wahhabi sect within the Sunni Muslim group out of Saudi Arabia. So, that's a huge problem dealing with Saudi Arabia.

KAYE: Yes, certainly. So many different things to worry about in this fight now and so much to work out still.

Tom Fuentes, appreciate your insight.

FUENTES: Thank you.

KAYE: Coming up, John Kerry said the fight against ISIS isn't a war. Then, the White House said it is. Is President Obama's administration on the same page? We'll talk about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Critics would say President Obama's primetime speech announcing his pledge to take on ISIS was a longtime coming, and the White House messaging on the issue has evolved to say the least. From the president's remark that we don't have a plan for countering ISIS inside Syria to his now stated vow to degrade and ultimately destroy the terror group.

Former White House adviser and CNN senior political analyst David Gergen has vast experience in crafting the message behind presidential policies.

David, good to see you on this Sunday. Even in the wake of this speech, there were mixed messages centering on the word war. So let me play some remarks by the president and his team.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our objective is clear. We will degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL. Through a comprehensive and sustained counterterrorism strategy.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: What we are doing is engaging in a very significant counterterrorism operation. And it's going to go on for some period of time. If somebody wants to think about it as being a war with ISIL, they can do so, but the fact is it's a major counterterrorism operation.

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: What I said was this is not the Iraq war of 2002, but make no mistake, we know we are at war with ISIL in the same way we are at war and continue to be at war with al Qaeda and its affiliates.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So I think what you can conclude from this is the United States is at war with ISIL in the same way that we are at war with al Qaeda and its al Qaeda affiliates all around the globe.

MARIE HARF, DEPUTY STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: This is not the kind of Iraq war that we had talked about in the recent past. This is not also America's war with ISIL. The world is joining us in this fight because of the threat they pose to countries in the regions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: All right. Now, today, Secretary of State Kerry told CBS it is a war after saying this week it was simply a counterterrorism effort.

David, does it matter if the president and his team call this effort a war, and even if it doesn't, why has it taken them until now really to get on the same page as to what to call it?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think it does matter. It matters in the sense that it creates a set of questions in your mind and other people's minds. Do they have a firm grip on what they're doing and what they want to call it, and are they all together on the same page? In other words, the more you -- the more you're on the same page together, the more sense of unity and cohesion is felt by the public.

So when your messaging, it gets a little muddled, or evolves as this has, it sow seeds of doubt about how firm a hand is on the wheel. In this case, I think the -- I think the formulation that they finally have gotten to, basically, is this is a war in a sense -- same sense we go to war against al Qaeda. I think they're obviously trying to distinguish it from a much bigger war, as in Iraq or in Afghanistan.

Wars that became so unpopular and people are wary of, we all know that. And so they're trying to minimize what this is and yet prepare us for a long, sustained and unpredictable battle.

KAYE: Yes. It certainly seems that way. Listen, as horrible as ISIS is and as tragic as their march through Syria and Iraq has become, has the president talked enough, do you think, about whether ISIS poses a direct danger to the United States and the American people?

GERGEN: I think the president's going to have to come back to this and other issues as we go forward. What's remarkable to me, Randi, right now is how different the feeling is than going into Iraq or Afghanistan. There was so much cheerleading, especially in the press, in the media, as we prepared to go in, that everything seemed to be, you know, this is all going to be very smooth, and, of course, it wasn't.

In this case, there a lot of different, you know, news organizations and commentators who are beginning to raise questions about how much more complicated this is. Especially with regard to Syria. And I think the president is going to have to keep talking to the public to help define the terms, help define reality for us, otherwise he's going to find that there's going to be a drum beat from left and right saying, what are we really getting into here?

I mean, "The New York Times" has the most interesting example. You know, and "The New York Times," have been very kind to President Obama, let's put it that way, charitable to President Obama, many would say prejudiced. But in the first couple days out afterwards, a front page of "The New York Times" consistently in big stories was saying basically, Arab support is tepid. This looks a lot more difficult than we may have thought.

KAYE: Right.

GERGEN: And today on their editorial page, they really raised fundamental questions about whether this can succeed in Syria which is such an important part of this whole operation. They were much more confident about Iraq than Syria. So when you have major media voices like that beginning to raise serious questions, I think that requires a counteroffensive on the part of the administration led by the president to tell us exactly what we're getting into, to keep building public support, solidify the support and solidify support in Congress.

Once you start calling it a war, by the way, doesn't that raise the stakes for Congress to give some sort of approval to this?

KAYE: Yes. Certainly does. Let me ask you about this coalition building. Secretary of State Kerry, he's been traveling nonstop.

GERGEN: Sure.

KAYE: I mean, how do you assess the coalition building efforts so far? I mean, George W. Bush took plenty of criticism for what he had called a coalition of the willing during the Iraq war. Do you think President Obama is doing any better?

GERGEN: Well, I think he's putting together a coalition of the willing. The question, willing to do what is going to be the question. You know, we have a number of nations signed up, but what they're signed up for seems like pretty light lifting. It's been striking, even David Cameron and the UK who had -- and UK has been so firmly with us in the past, and, of course, Tony Blair paid a price for that at home.

But even after the beheading of one of their own, David Cameron said, we're going to work with the United States, but they're only providing sort of surveillance and intelligence. They're not joining the airstrikes. And Cameron clearly has got his eye, you know -- he's looking down the road this week at the vote on Scotland on Thursday which is so critical. He's not calling parliament back.

Remember, the last time he called parliament into session was on Syria, and he was working with Obama and he tried to get approval from a parliament. It was shocking that he got defeated on that. So he's been very gingerly and if you look at country by country with a small number of exceptions, yes, they're saying they're going to be there, yes, they're saying they're going to take part, but when you get underneath that statement and ask, what are you actually doing?

Still the United States is going to be doing the heavy lifting, trying to work with the Iraqis, the Kurds, and with so-called moderates in Syria.

KAYE: Right. All right. David, stay with me, if you will, here because when we come back, a closer look at Obama's journey from a dove to a hawk.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: We're discussing President Obama and the U.S. effort to, in the president's words, degrade and ultimately destroy ISIS. I'm joined by former presidential adviser and CNN senior political analyst, David Gergen.

So, David, the president didn't say the word war in his primetime speech, but it was very much a wartime speech in its themes, in its rhetoric, and this president was elected as the anti-war president, promising to end the wars actually in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Does that explain, do you think, what critics consider his reluctance to get involved in a confrontation with ISIS? GERGEN: Absolutely. He, as you know, the standard phrase, the

reluctant warrior. And I think he's played that long before this decision. Look at all the vacillation over Syria after drawing a red line and they cross the red line and suddenly he felt like he didn't want to use force and so forth. We've seen that time and time again. Clearly this president wanted a legacy, right from the time he went -- you know, went and got his Nobel Peace Prize early on and from his campaign.

He wanted to leave a legacy of a man who got us out of wars and he's doing that willy-nilly in Afghanistan. And many of his critics think he should have left troops behind in Iraq. And now they want him to leave some troops behind in Afghanistan. But he doesn't like -- he sees war as the last option. And by contrast, he thinks George W. Bush sort of often saw it as the first option. And he is -- what was striking, Randi, was these dinners and meetings that he had shortly before the speech with foreign policy experts, as well as some journalists --

KAYE: Yes. I wanted to ask you about that.

GERGEN: In his conversations -- yes. It was interesting, wasn't it, then?

KAYE: Yes, because well "The New York Times" is reporting that the president met with these a couple of groups of columnists and foreign policy experts in the days before the speech as well and in the "Times" Peter Baker spoke with people who were in those meetings and he writes this.

"He was acutely aware that the operation he was about to embark on would not solve the larger issues in that region by the time he left office. This will be a problem for the next president, Mr. Obama said ruefully, and probably the one after that."

So, David, do you believe Americans recognize and even agree with that view?

GERGEN: I think Americans are not uncertain. We tend to be a country that likes to get things over with quickly. You know, what is very, very striking is how far President Obama has departed from what we call the Powell doctrine, and you know, Colin Powell was a supporter of his in 2008, 2012, but Colin Powell has long believed in the Powell doctrine, that is when you go in, go in with overwhelming force and get it done quickly and move on.

That's what the Americans will support. And we've seen that over the long, long 13 years we've been now involved in conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq that people have gotten very wary. They did want to get it over with. So when President Obama talks about it may go on to my successor and even that person's successor, I -- that's not what Americans like. But it may well be the case.

It is worth remembering that under George W. Bush, Condee Rice, his secretary of state, kept arguing with regard to terrorism that this is going to be the work of a generation, and that looks more prescient now.

KAYE: Let me ask you, why did Mr. Obama feel the need to end his speech with -- really with lines from a standard stump speech? Certainly his. I mean, we have the best universities, he said. He talked about the auto industry being strong, a strong job creation.

GERGEN: I -- well, I'm on record saying I thought that was peculiar and I thought it detracted some from his speech because the country is pretty blue right now. We -- the number of people think we're on the wrong track, that's a standard polling question, has been very low for a long time.

You know, we've had over 10 years in which less than half the American people thought we were on the right track, so to claim that we're sort of -- have this sort of upbeat ending about well, how well we're doing with jobs and how we're leading the world, it just -- it doesn't resonate with what most Americans now feel.

It -- I'm not saying he's wrong on the facts about the number of jobs. What I am saying, it doesn't connect with the opinion. So I thought that was odd, that ending to the speech. I thought the rest of the speech was, you know, very much -- I mean, Newt Gingrich has been making the argument on CNN, he thought George W. Bush could have given that. I'm not sure I agree with that. But it was more bellicose than anything we've seen from President Obama.

KAYE: Yes. Certainly --

GERGEN: By the way, Randi -- one footnote. What was interesting, there's been this question, is the president uncertain? Is he really -- does he really not want to do this war against ISIS? And the people who came out of those meetings according to that account we read from Peter Baker today said he's all in. He's all in. And I think for some people, that's going to be reassuring. For allies who are trying to figure out, do I want to go with the United States or not, if they understand that he's all in, they're much more likely to go with us.

KAYE: Well, we have a lot more to talk about. We're going to talk with you next hour as well, David.

GERGEN: OK.

KAYE: We could spend the whole hour talking about this. Thank you so much.

GERGEN: Thank you.

KAYE: Coming up, Ray Rice, just the beginning in what turned out to be a very rough week for the NFL. We'll talk about how the league can turn things around right after a very quick break. So keep it here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: The NFL has been in the news all week for everything except football. Video surfaced that showed star running back Ray Rice striking his fiancee, video that just about everyone has now seen. This morning, President Obama's chief of staff said that the president was, quote, "shocked by what he saw."

Meantime, America's most popular sports league is back on the field this afternoon. But one Carolina Panther was not.

Here's CNN's Nick Valencia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Buried in a tweet on Sunday, Carolina defensive end Greg Hardy listed among a handful of other players as inactive for Sunday's matchup against the Detroit Lions. The news posted on the Carolina Panthers' official Twitter page just hours before kickoff. Important as much for what it said as what it didn't.

RON RIVERA, CAROLINA PANTHERS HEAD COACH: The decision was made that we believe that this was in the best interest of the Carolina Panthers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry, we're not going to be talking about anything until afterwards.

VALENCIA: This summer Hardy was convicted of domestic violence. Prosecutors say he dragged his girlfriend from room to room by her hair and then threatened to kill her after a long night of drinking. Hardy says he's innocent and is appealing the decision. The Panthers reserving judgment.

JERRY RICHARDSON, CAROLINA PANTHERS OWNER: We have worked extremely hard to build an organization of integrity.

VALENCIA: At a recent awards event in Charlotte, the team's owner, Jerry Richardson, choked back tears talking about the accusation against his player.

RICHARDSON: I stand firmly against domestic violence, plain and simple. To those who would suggest we've been too slow to act, I ask that you consider not to be too quick to judge.

VALENCIA: Hardy's deactivation comes amid increasing pressure on the NFL and its commissioner, Roger Goodell. Adrian Peterson, the star running back for the Minnesota Vikings, off the roster on Sunday after he was indicted on a child abuse charge. His lawyer says Peterson never intended to harm his son. And Baltimore Raven Ray Rice, he may never play again after a video was posted online that showed him punching his now-wife back in February.

Designated franchise player by the team, Hardy led the Panthers in Sacks in 2013. In his five years in the NFL, Hardy has made it to the pro bowl and has twice been named Conference Defensive Player of the Week. But it's his actions off the field that at least for now are overshadowing his on-the-field accomplishments.

Nick Valencia, CNN, Atlanta. (END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: Let me bring in Terence Moore to talk about this. He is a sports contributor to CNN.com and a columnist for mlb.com.

So, Terence, Ray Rice is suspended, Greg Hardy was deactivated. Is the NFL finally, finally recognizing that it has to change the way it handles the domestic violence issue?

TERENCE MOORE, CNN.COM SPORTS CONTRIBUTOR: Randi, in honor of the late Joan Rivers, can we talk?

(LAUGHTER)

KAYE: We're talking.

MOORE: Yes, let's talk about this in this sense. The only reason, for instance, the Carolina Panthers deactivated Greg Hardy today was because they didn't want to look absolutely silly. It all goes back to Friday. You mentioned the Minnesota thing with Adrian Peterson. Their star running back.

But here's the thing about the Carolina Panthers. Greg Hardy was, as you mentioned before -- well, you probably didn't mention this part here. Greg Hardy was convicted during the summer of doing everything from strangling his girlfriend, that's what she alleged that he did, to throwing her on the bed of assault weapons. So up to this point, he still was allowed to play with the Carolina Panthers. So we shouldn't look at this as any great thing that the Carolina Panthers did.

The other thing is you got these other teams out there that can't be embarrassed like the San Francisco 49ers. They've got their star player, Ray McDonald, at least on defense, who during training camp, he was arrested for domestic violence. You know, there were marks on the arm.

KAYE: Right.

MOORE: And also the neck of his girlfriend. But he's still playing for the 49ers. He's playing tonight.

KAYE: Yes. And the team says they're still investigating.

MOORE: Yes, they say they're investigating, and when they said that we want due process, which translated into as long as he can help us win, he's going to be out there.

KAYE: Right. Right. And Hardy, of course, that we should say he's awaiting a jury trial. He's appealing. That's probably why the team was saying he was able to play until today.

But listen, "USA Today," they keep a record of NFL player arrests and their count stands at 740 players arrested since the year 2000. Does the NFL have a problem with player discipline, do you think? MOORE: Well, I've been covering the NFL since the late 1970s and

there've always been knuckle heads in this league, and in particular, I covered the Oakland Raiders back in the early 1980s with the "San Francisco Examiner." And they had kept the local police department quite busy.

Now the only thing you didn't -- really didn't hear about all this back then is because there was no CNN, there was no Internet, and there was no camera phone. Otherwise it would be exactly the same thing.

KAYE: Lots of criticism certainly this week of NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, especially his original two-game suspension for Ray Rice. Certainly seen by many as far too lenient. Now the questions about whether he did or did not see the elevator video of Ray Rice striking his then-fiancee. Should Goodell keep his job, do you think?

MOORE: Well, in a fantasy world, he would have been gone a long time ago because, as you mentioned earlier, this was the worst week in history of the National Football League. In the real world, he's not going anywhere. And that's because he makes these NFL owners too much money. "Forbes" magazine released that the average NFL franchise last year was worth $1.4 billion.

But here's the big reason he's not going anywhere. Roger Goodell put together this group to allegedly investigate how the NFL handled this Ray Rice case. Robert Mueller is in charge of it, the former FBI chief, but also you've got two prominent NFL owners at the top of this thing, and these are two of the top owners who support Roger Goodell. You do the figuring on that.

KAYE: Yes. It's -- it's a lot to figure out for sure. No question about it.

Terence Moore, nice to see you. Thank you.

MOORE: Thank you.

KAYE: Happy Sunday.

MOORE: Same to you.

KAYE: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Good evening, everyone, I'm Randi Kaye in New York.

We begin with the global fight against ISIS and those willing to join the coalition.