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Building A Coalition Against ISIS; Hillary Clinton Returns to Iowa; NFL Week of Shame; NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell Blasted

Aired September 14, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Good evening, everyone. I'm Randi Kaye in New York.

We begin with the global fight against ISIS and those willing to join the coalition that's beginning to fall into place. An optimistic Secretary of State John Kerry says a number of countries are prepared to engage in military assistance, but what about America's greatest ally, the U.K.? We have heard plenty of tough talk from British leader in recent weeks especially now in the wake of David Haines' brutal murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, PRIME MINISTER OF U.K.: Today, the whole country will want to express its deep sympathy for David Haines' family. They have endured the last 18 months of David's captivity with extraordinary courage. And now, David has been murdered in the most callous and brutal way imaginable by an organization which is the embodiment of evil. We will hunt down those responsible and bring them to justice no matter how long it takes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: More tough talk, but does Haines' death move the needle politically and is the U.K. ready to step up now that they've lost one of their own?

Joining me now, CNN senior international correspondent Arwa Damon is in London for us; foreign editor for "The Daily Beast" Christopher Dickey joining me here in New York; and CNN senior political analyst David Gergen is with us as well.

Arwa, let me begin with you. We've heard tough talk from David Cameron there. Are other British politicians on the same page?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's what we're going to have to wait and see to find out. Because he most certainly at this stage is trying to drum up what has been up until now severely lacking political support for more involvement when it comes to the overarching battle against ISIS both in Iraq and in Syria. Those two fights are going to be of two very different natures. And there hasn't been a lot of appetite here to see the U.K. drawn back into another battle. The prime minister has, however, ruled out boots on the ground, but he did put forward a five-part strategy when it comes to trying to fight ISIS. Not at this stage, though, committing to any sort of air strikes. That he still needs the political support for, but it does include sending more munitions, more military assistance to the Kurdish fighters and to the central Iraqi government's security forces as well.

It also includes, as he was saying, contributing to the U.S.-led military action, and also perhaps most critical of all, reinforcing the counterterrorism effort back home amongst the thousands of foreign fighters that have gone to the battlefield in Syria and in Iraq, alongside ISIS, are around 500 British nationals.

KAYE: David, as horrific as Haines' death is, with the other murders, how much will it add to the pressure on Congress to back the President now?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think that -- I don't think that David Haines' execution is going to increase pressure on Congress very much. There is another American being held, and if they execute him, it's going to put a lot of pressure on. And the more these executions go on in general, I think it would strengthen public opinion in Britain as well for Cameron to do something.

You know, Cameron has spoken out; he has used tough words. But the actions he's taken so far are fairly modest. Again, I think he's obviously got his eye on Thursday's big election for Scottish independence -- and that's too close to call right now if that goes to -- for independence. If that vote comes down for independence, British politics is going to be in an uproar in the weeks to come, because that is such a sharp break after 300 years and it's a big, big deal for Cameron.

KAYE: Chris, will Haines' death move the U.K., do you think, to join the campaign in a bigger way?

CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, "THE DAILY BEAST": Well, I think there's obviously an emotional component. People are angry. They're upset. They want to do something; but whether they want to get involved in another Middle Eastern war, that's another question. And I think there's a real problem for people in the U.K. and people here in the United States. They're looking at our allies in the region and they're saying, where are they? Where are the Turks, where are the Saudis? Where are any of our friends in the region? Are they volunteering to send in stabilization forces? To send in combat troops? No.

And I think the British are saying to themselves, we're very angry about this Haines case. There may be more. We've got to do something. But we can't be the only ones to be doing something. You can't just have Anglo-Saxons, Americans, Brits --

KAYE: Right.

DICKEY: -- Canadians, Australians doing stuff when the people on the ground are unwilling to.

KAYE: Arwa, this morning, David Cameron held this special, very urgent meeting with his advisers. I mean how soon do you think we could see Cameron try to push for some new action here?

DAMON: It's very difficult to tell. Presumably those high-level conversations are still ongoing because there's also the realization that the U.K. is not insulated from the threat that is posed by ISIS. And that was also one of the key points that the Prime Minister was trying to make addressing the British public very directly saying this is a fanatical organization that plans attacks across Europe. They've already tried to carry out attacks in the U.K.

And an ISIS defector that we had spoken to a few weeks ago who had had interactions with some of the British foreign fighters that were with ISIS said that in what they were telling him, if they had the opportunity, they would carry out attacks back here in the U.K. Additionally, this ISIS defector believed that the organization was perhaps using a man of British origins or at least speaking in a British accent to front those horrific executions to send a message out to others who, perhaps, were trying to reach the battlefield in Syria and Iraq, were unable to so and the message there being that there's no reason why they couldn't support ISIS, i.e. carry out attacks back in their home land.

So the big message here is this is not just about a battle that is taking place in a foreign land in Iraq and in Syria, but it is, in fact, a battle that very much could be taking place in the U.K.

KAYE: Yes. Chris, what about ISIS? I mean does ISIS care that it may be encouraging in its own sick way other countries to attack them?

DICKEY: No, I think ISIS wants to be attacked. I think ISIS wants a really clearly defined war from its point of view in which it is standing against all the apostates and the non Muslims by its definition in the world.

So its big enemy -- I think this is lost in a lot of this discussion -- its big enemy is Iran. It is the fact of the opposition to Iran that enabled it to pull a lot of Sunni forces around it who are not necessarily going to be part of ISIS originally. So there's that element. And I think that's the big focus for the moment.

But as the United States, as Britain, as other countries focus attention on it, then ISIS will strike out at them as, in fact, we've seen with these beheadings. They'll also try and carry out terrorist actions in Europe -- we haven't even talked about France, Belgium, other places --

KAYE: Right.

DICKEY: -- and they'll try to do it in the United States. Now, the good news is that the United States is a lot more experienced now than it was in 2001 in fighting terrorism on its own turf. The bad news is this is a very slick group that has also learned a lot of lessons.

KAYE: David, could we, do you think, and is it a good idea, what do you make of possible alliances with Iran and Syria?

GERGEN: That's going to be quite something. I think Chris Dickey's analysis so far has been spot on in both of his comments about where we are with the alliances. And I think this issue of how we deal with Assad is going to be absolutely critical. It's increasingly clear, as Richard Haas began arguing on this network after the President's speech -- Richard Haas runs the council on foreign relations.

And he said, look, it's Syria where the big question marks are. We understand what the strategy is in Iraq, but we haven't figured out how we're really going to get this done in Syria. Now there have been some -- you know, there are various reports coming out that we want to arm the moderates but the moderates want us to go after Assad and that they may even have a truce with ISIS unless we're willing to go after Assad. That's what they really want to accomplish.

So this is extraordinarily complex, and it's not clear yet that the United States or its friends, and we do have friends who wish us well, even though they're not committing a lot, whether we have a plan to figure out how are we really going get these moderates train up and active fighters who can help bring down ISIS with everybody agreeing air power alone can't do it?

Who's our partner going to be on the ground in Syria, and what are we going to do about Assad? And of course, then there's this looming question -- I think Chris is right about the threat of Iran that ISIS is -- that's another ultimate enemy for Iran.

But we have these nuclear negotiations with Iran, you know, the time -- the clock keeps ticking. They keep building. They keep running those centrifuges. We're getting closer to the edge with them. The U.S. hoped to get an agreement by now. We're a long, long, long way from any agreement on their nuclear program.

KAYE: Yes. Certainly a lot more to discuss; plenty to talk about here. Arwa Damon, thank you very much. David and Christopher, please stay with us. We'll talk more in just a moment.

But first, it's a horror that few could imagine. Learning their father, brother, or son had been beheaded by terrorists. Today, the brother of David Haines is speaking out about a man he calls just another bloke.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE HAINES, BROTHER OF DAVID HAINES: My first reaction could be one of hatred. But my brother's life wasn't about hatred. It was about love for all men. No matter what religion, no matter what creed, it was to help people.

David early on found that working in difficult conditions, working for people in time of hardship, brought him a job satisfaction. When he got the position with ACTED, he was really excited; very, very enthusiastic. He was going across to look at the logistics and planning, how best to put the ACTED operations into a safe operation. He tried to be a better man. He tried to account for his mistakes in previous life through good work. We hoped, we prayed in our own way. Unfortunately, it was not in our hands. It was not in the hands of the government. It was in the hands of terrorists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Nearly 40 countries -- that's how big the coalition has grown, aligned against the militant group called ISIS. Secretary of State John Kerry is overseas this weekend adding Gulf and Arab states to that coalition. And the U.N. Security Council is unanimous in its condemnation of ISIS and that includes permanent member, China.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We have countries in this region, countries outside of this region, in addition to the United States, all of whom are prepared to engage in military assistance, in actual strikes if that is what it requires. There are some that are clearly prepared to take action in the air alongside the United States, and to do air strikes if that's what they're called on to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Back with me is Christopher Dickey, foreign editor of "The Daily Beast" and former presidential adviser, David Gergen.

David let me start with you here. The Pentagon and the CIA estimates that ISIS has 30,000 fighters mostly spread across Syria and Iraq. Right now the collective power of some 40 nations or so is coming together to take out this group of 30,000 people. We've seen mass killings of civilians and at least three brutal beheadings that we've been discussing. Is this group so vicious as to warrant this global effort to wipe them out?

GERGEN: Well, there are dissenting voices now who are weighing in on that very question. But I think the general consensus is that this group is dangerous. It's not just the 30,000 that's important. And I think Chris Dickey and I would agree that part of the ISIS strategy is to draw in a bigger coalition because they get more volunteers that way. They get more -- they build themselves up as the biggest jihadi organization in the world and that seems to be -- it may be bone headed, but that seems to be their strategy.

I think the other number to keep your eye on is how many people who are in ISIS have western passports? How many can come back into Europe? How many can come into the United States? Because they really could -- you know, we've gotten much, much better at dealing with, and catching terrorists. When you have that many, who potentially can come at you, it presents real difficulties for our intelligence folks.

KAYE: Chris, is ISIS -- I mean is it really the real deal, if you will? I mean tactically, militarily speaking? Or are they just this violent, brutal group of thugs?

DICKEY: Well, they are definitely a violent, brutal group of thugs. But clearly the people at the top have a very shrewd sense of how their world operates -- a much better sense than we do. I mean this is one of the problems with the vast coalition. They thrive on this reflective glory as David was pointing out, you know. Here we are against the world. The world is essentially coming to us. And yes, they're going to try to fight us, but how is that going to work?

What needs to be understood is that the people, the countries in this coalition, many of them hate each other. Let's put aside Iran. Let's put aside Syria's Assad regime. The Turks and the Qataris do not like the Saudis, the Egyptians and the United Arab Emirates. They are not really on the same side. They're all saying, yes, we're against ISIS, but they're against each other, too. So that's a very, very difficult team of rivals for the Obama administration or Secretary Kerry to try and pull together. And it's one reason that we've got such really a noncommittal alliance.

KAYE: Yes, one of the strangest coalitions if it does really come together.

David -- Obama ran for president promising to get out of Bush's wars. I mean now he's talking about coalitions and fighting in Iraq. Is it strange for you to hear this?

GERGEN: Absolutely. I don't think any of us anticipated -- they didn't anticipate. After all only a few months ago this was the JV team we were talking about in his view and now suddenly it's this imminent threat in the words of his Defense Secretary. So I think it's been a big surprise that the intelligence community didn't pick up on this. I've been surprised about that.

Had we had more people on the ground in Iraq, I think we could have anticipated this before but we didn't. But here we are. I think the President now has no choice. He has put his cards on the table. Once you start taking the kind of actions he does, you give a primetime speech, you go to the U.N. and get your coalition put together this becomes a major, major undertaking for the rest of his presidency. And I dare say that it's certainly going to be an issue in the 2016 campaign, how this is going, what kind of strategy has been adopted.

It's going to have consequences well beyond what we understand now. One of the things, for example, I don't know where Chris is on this, but I've been very curious, we keep talking about the American strategy. What is the ISIS strategy? After all, this is not a static group. They're going to figure some things out, too, to cause us pain in various places. I'm just very curious. I just haven't heard many people sort of talk authoritatively about that question.

KAYE: Chris, you want to quickly weigh in?

DICKEY: I think ISIS may be overreaching. You know, they are playing this game. And it's largely a media game. They may have 30,000 people that nominally are with them, but really they're trying to play this game on international opinion as well as on the ground and especially in the Muslim world. But part of their strength is their money.

If the offensive against them can take away their oil revenues -- this is a terrorist group with oil revenues. If you can take that away, if you can take away the extortion, the kidnapping, some of those elements so that they don't have all that money, and if you can take away from them the idea that they have all this momentum, then you can start to squeeze them and shrink them. Part of the problem here is that the President won't say or is afraid to stay what really is the policy, which is to manage ISIS, not to destroy it. You're never going to destroy a terrorist group any more than you can destroy drug dealers or destroy crime.

KAYE: Yes.

DICKEY: Now we've gotten into the logic of war where everything has to be this ratcheted up rhetoric and we have to destroy and dismantle and chase them to the gates of hell.

KAYE: Chris Dickey, David Gergen --

GERGEN: But he said "manage."

KAYE: He did say "manage."

DICKEY: He did and he was called on the carpet for it.

GERGEN: It really backfired on him, yes.

DICKEY: Exactly. That's my point.

KAYE: Then came "destroy."

DICKEY: He says what he means and then he gets crucified for it.

KAYE: Absolutely. Listen, booth of you, please stay with us all right -- much more to talk about.

It felt a little bit like 2016 in Iowa today in case you were watching. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Hello, Iowa. I'm back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Yes, just a little like 2016, or maybe 2012 -- I don't know. Yes, the crowd was hanging on Hillary's every word waiting to see if she'd say those magic words, "I'm running for president."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: In Iowa today, it wasn't just about the beef. The big story at Senator Tom Harkin's Steak Fry fund-raiser today was the appearance of Hillary Clinton. Iowa is the first state in the Presidential nomination process, and by headlining today's event with her husband Bill, Hillary Clinton fueled more speculation about 2016 run. She admitted to the Iowans in attendance that yes, she does have 2016 on her mind.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Well, it is true, I am thinking about it -- but, but for today, that is not why I'm here. I'm here for the steak.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Clinton will have work to do in Iowa if she runs. In 2008, she finished third in caucus voting behind President Obama and former North Carolina Senator John Edwards.

Let's bring back our senior political analyst David Gergen. He has advised Presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Clinton. David, political types get all excited about the Iowa steak fry, but I know that some viewers are saying, is it really time to start talking presidential politics? What's the answer?

GERGEN: This is the buzz time. We're in the buzz phase of the campaign, where the idea is if you can create some buzz, it keeps things alive, keeps people interested. And then you come back with real substance later on. I think she helped herself today.

In contrast to the book tour, Randi, you know, which had decidedly mixed results, she came to this today and she seemed comfortable. She was humorous. The "I'm back" line was terrific. I think she was sort of -- she showed a little ankle, as they like to say in politics. And I think it worked.

Well, here's what's interesting for this. Is she really going to get into the midterms? I mean she was out campaigning for the Iowa senate campaign for the Democrat, Braley out there. If she's going to throw her weight in the midterms, that's going to be a big test because it's uphill in a number of these states. I would be surprised if she risks too much.

But on the other hand, she's going to be under pressure to do more then after going to Iowa to go to some other states like North Carolina and help Kay Hagan or something like that.

KAYE: Right.

GERGEN: Or go to Georgia and help Michelle Nunn. She's going to be -- this is very interesting now. After Iowa, what's next for Hillary?

KAYE: She was supposed to win the Iowa caucuses back in 2008, until a senator named Barack Obama came along into Iowa and upset her plans certainly. Could it happen again? I mean is there any name out there that you can suggest that could knock her off her game?

GERGEN: Nobody is apparent at the moment. You know, I think a lot depends on her health and vitality. And today she seemed positive and healthy on all fronts. O'Malley I think is a potential possibility, but I would -- here's the dark side. President Obama, you know, Barack Obama the candidate upset her plans in 2008.

Is President Obama in his new war against ISIS, if that does not go well, will that reflect badly on her in 2016? Hard question -- don't know -- too early to say.

KAYE: Yes. Could you peak too early, do you think?

GERGEN: Yes, absolutely. And I think what she has to be careful about is Clinton fatigue. She's going to have to do -- she's got a good sense of timing, but she's going to be quite, quite careful. Too much -- I thought she had too much television during her book tour and people sort of started hitting the mute button.

So she's got to do this carefully and, you know, space it out, but she's got to turn to substance pretty soon. You know, she's going to have to start talking about the future. Her book tour was about the past. Soon she's got to start focusing on what would she do as president and why could she succeed in breaking this gridlock? That's a very, very big question for anybody who wins this next election.

KAYE: Yes -- certainly. Listen, we've been talking about Hillary, but before I let you go, I want to ask you about the NFL commissioner, someone who could lose his job. He's had a very rough week, Roger Goodell. Is former secretary of state Condi Rice, is she going to be the next NFL commissioner? That's what a lot of people are wondering.

GERGEN: Well, you know, she loves football. When she was at Stanford, she went to every game at home and away. I thought, you know -- she would make an ideal commissioner, but you know, they also have to give thought to the structure of this job. There's a very big question about whether Roger Goodell has too much discretion, and whether it will be better for -- you know, to explore alternative ways of doing this. So Condi's smart enough to think about that if she gets the job.

But certainly Roger Goodell, he may survive. He's a very good man, but he's in a lot of trouble right now. This league even is in a lot of trouble.

KAYE: It certainly is. David Gergen, thank you so much.

GERGEN: Ok, Randi. Thank you.

KAYE: Just a few months ago, most of us had never heard of ISIS. Now the U.S. is launching a huge offensive operation against those terrorists, but some think this group just can't keep going the way it is.

And later, the NFL is wrapping up its worst week in recent memory. A few stars were off the field, and the commissioner finds his job, as we all know, in jeopardy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: It is a terror campaign that sends chills down the spine of people in many countries, but are we giving ISIS too much credit? Today on CNN's "State of the Union" with Candy Crowley, White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough talked about why he feels ISIS will fail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENIS MCDONOUGH, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: ISIL will do anything it can to strike terror and fear into its opponents, but ultimately that's why we're going to beat them. They stand for nothing but what they can destroy. Not for anything that they can build. That's exactly what Prime Minister Cameron was saying this morning. And that's why ultimately the United States, with this coalition effort, Muslim states, Sunni states, part of that effort, will ultimately not only degrade this capability with ISIL but destroy ISIL itself because it really stands for nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Let me bring back Christopher Dickey, the foreign editor for "The Daily Beast."

So, Chris, I mean, simply put, is ISIS too violent, too ruthless, too radical to survive?

DICKEY: No.

KAYE: No?

DICKEY: I wish that were true. I wish Denis McDonough were right, but he's completely wrong. We're trying to impose our values system, our beliefs, our framework, our national view of things on a part of the world that doesn't see anything the way we see it. The values in the Middle East are not better or worse, but they are very, very different than they are in the United States. All this talk of democracy, all this talk of what's good, what's bad, ISIS understands the symbolism, the semiotics, if you will, much, much better than we do.

Democracy is a hollow word. Beheading is an old practice. Remember, it's practiced in Saudi Arabia as part of their legal system. It's horrible to us. It's religious justice to them. And while there are millions of Muslims who don't believe in that, there are enough in place -- embattled places like Iraq and Syria that ISIS will attract them and it will build on top of their commitment to them.

KAYE: Yes, I mean, I think there are two schools of thought on that because some do say that the beheading videos will attract those who are young and want to be radicalized. But then you have others, like our CNN national security correspondent Peter Bergen who said that the beheadings of westerners, I mean they're really the beginning of the end, because - because it makes ISIS look so brutal that people are so turned off from this.

DICKEY: Look, do we think that Sunni farmers in Iraq, in Syria, they really care about James Foley, or Steven Sotloff, or David Haines? No. They don't give a damn about them. If they're going to give a damn about people being beheaded, it will be their neighbors, the Yezidis or the Shia or the Christians who are beheaded and crucified by these groups. But you know what, that did not alienate those people from ISIS. There's a combination of fear and opportunism that ISIS exploits in that area and we have to find effective ways to counteract it. But pronouncements from London, pronouncements from Washington about the morality or immorality of ISIS, those are not going to take us very far.

KAYE: What about the direct threats from ISIS to the U.S.? I mean do we know if there are any?

DICKEY: Look, ISIS' game is to inspire terrorism, not just to carry it out and direct it. Already, when Prime Minister Cameron spoke, he was talking about a particular incident in Brussels where you had a guy who was with ISIS, he was a Frenchman, who was with ISIS, who was a jailer of some Frenchman being held by terrorist groups in Syria, and he goes back to Brussels and murders four people at a Jewish museum in Brussels. Now that happened May 24th. That happened before the fall of Mosul, before everybody sort of was shocked and woke up about ISIS. But he was already killing people for ISIS in Europe. It's not like this is a theoretical thing. People have already brought the war home.

KAYE: Christopher Dickey, nice to see you. Not the best news from you, of course, but -

DICKEY: No, I wish I could be more upbeat.

KAYE: I wish you could, too. Maybe next time. All right, thank you.

Well, the NFL is supposed to own September, a month when every team has a shot at the Super Bowl. Instead, we're talking about player arrests, domestic violence, hitting kids with switches. Ahead, we'll look at whether the NFL can really bounce back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: NFL teams headed back to the field today finally able to focus on the game, instead of the league's off the field troubles. A quartet of players made headlines this week for all the wrong reasons. The Ray Rice video, the Adrian Peterson arrest and players Ray McDonald and Greg Hardy saw their recent arrests back in the spotlight as well. It all adds up to one of the league's worst weeks ever. Here's CNN's Alexandra Field.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's game day, and the NFL is taking the heat. Online, a popular hash tag, #boycottnfl, also this PhotoShopped version of a Cover Girl ad for the NFL makeup line altered to show a woman with a black eye. The commissioner himself, Roger Goodell, is being called out by a women's group with plans to fly banner planes with the message "Goodell must go" over several NFL stadiums.

And in Minnesota, the Vikings take on the Patriots for the first home game of the season without their star player. Running back Adrian Peterson is out of the game. He is in the middle of a seven-year deal with the team worth a whopping maximum of $100 million. His face is on today's tickets, but it's also in yesterday's mug shot.

PHIL GRANT, ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Obviously parents are entitled to discipline their children as they see fit, except for when that discipline exceeds what the community would say is reasonable.

FIELD: Peterson is out on $15,000 bond following an indictment by a Texas grand jury on a felony charge. His attorney says he's accused of using a switch to spank his son, but he goes on to defend Peterson saying, "Adrian is a loving father who used his judgment as a parent to discipline his son. He used the same kind of discipline with his child that he experienced as a child growing up in east Texas."

The NFL is reviewing the case the same week that they took action to indefinitely suspend the Baltimore Ravens star running back Ray Rice. This weekend, Rice made a brief return to the football field, on the sidelines at his high school's football game. His wife, Janay Rice, by his side. It's the first time they've been seen publicly since video of the athlete attacking his then-fiance was made public.

LOUIS DIRIENZO, NEW ROCHELLE FOOTBALL COACH: Ray is a part of our family, and a part of this program, and that's why I'm very happy he's here today because because he made a mistake and he made a very terrible mistake, but I know the character of the man and he will rise from this.

FIELD: Alexandra Field, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: Here's one solution for the NFL's problem, zero tolerance. Any player charged with a crime, suspend them from the game? Would it work, do you think? We'll talk about that with former NFL all-pro Alge Crumpler and broadcasting legend, Pat O'Brien.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: NFL football, it fills stadiums, bars, and owners' pockets like no other sport in America, but lately the NFL is filling airwaves and Internet sites with reports of domestic violence, especially the incident involving Ray Rice. Why is the league so inconsistent with punishment? New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand is one of 16 female senators calling for NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell to allow zero tolerance for domestic violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D), NEW YORK: Well, initially, I want him to lead the reform to actually create and enforce a zero-tolerance policy. But given the recent debate, you know, if he's lied - if he lied to the American people, then he has to step down because he won't have the force of authority to change how they address these issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Joining me now, broadcasting legend, Pat O'Brien, the bestselling author of "I'll Be Back Right After This," and former NFL player and host of "ACC Gridiron Live," Alge Crumpler.

Good to see you guys.

Pat, I'm going to start with you here. How could Roger Goodell get it so wrong.

PAT O'BRIEN, AUTHOR, "I'LL BE BACK RIGHT AFTER THIS": First of all, Alge, let's get off on a good start, go Duke! I know you're a California guy - or a Carolina guy. Go, Duke Blue Devils. That's all I get's a smile?

I don't think, first of all, a number of things. Thanks for having me on.

You know, first of all, Ray Rice is never going to play in the NFL again. Roger Goodell is going nowhere. I mean, the league has made, since he's been commissioner, it's now up to $10.8 billion. There will be no boycott of the NFL. People are not going to do that. And there will be no zero tolerance. The biggest fear for the NFL is what you just said there, Randi, and you guys nailed it today with those interviews earlier. That was on "Face the Nation," but you guys had one, too. They do not want to be in front of Congress. They are a tax- exempt organization. They do not want to be brought up on that issue, and you don't want to see anybody in the NFL racing their right hand. That's the big issue.

KAYE: Yes. Alge, you played 10 years in the league. Are players being held to a higher standard, do you think, than the owners and the commissioner?

ALGE CRUMPLER, FORMER ATLANTA FALCONS PLAYER: Well, I think the players understand that they can't mess up in a National Football League because it's always been a right and a privilege to play. But for me, you know, the commissioner is right at the center of this and that's why we have a crisis of leadership. I can't understand a league where players are disciplined, but the commissioner can just walk free in the midst of all of these unfortunate situations that are happening off the field.

KAYE: Pat, why don't you think the NFL would adopt a zero-tolerance policy for domestic violence?

O'BRIEN: It's just not going to be easy. I mean, they should. I think they should. But let me tell you something, this is -- this is not an NFL problem so much as it is a national systemic, or is it endemic problem with child abuse or spousal abuse. But I just think that with all the players there and with the players union -- and Alge will agree with me, they're very, very strong -- it would be almost impossible. And you guys reported 700, 800 players were arrested for various crimes over the past year. And under Goodell's watch, it's been -- there's been about 75.

But, you know, it's just - I just don't think that's going to happen. I don't think they'll go that far. You know, they're supposed to wear purple next month for spousal abuse. You know, that's window dressing. But, you know, the issue at hand right now, we'll get to Adrian Peterson, I hope, and all these other players, there's just no -- these are consequences and there's no punishment.

CRUMPLER: Well, here's what I know about the players. The players, you know, they're open to be critical of other players on other teams, but it's very hard for them to be critical of players on their own team. I dealt with this back in 2007 when Michael Vick was dealing with the whole dogfighting allegations. A lot of us didn't know how to open up and be critical of one of our own teammates because with 16 games, we just didn't understand how to deal with it. And now you're seeing players step out and be critical of Roger Goodell. You're seeing players step out and be critical of other players on other teams. But until players can stand up, you know, for everybody's rights and be critical of their own players on their own team, I think we'll move forward on these issues.

O'BRIEN: You know the other movement, Randi, there has been is that usually the networks who carry the NFL, like Fox, CBS, NBC, would stay away from anything controversial about the NFL. I worked at the NFL today. We were told never to do this. This week there has been a sea change of attitude toward that. The big, bad wolf is no longer the big, bad wolf. Everybody's done tremendous openings of their pregame shows, talking about these issues and --

KAYE: Right.

O'BRIEN: I'm very surprised that that happened this week.

KAYE: Let me ask you, Alge, I mean what do you think is the bigger issue for the NFL right now, is it domestic violence or is it concussions?

CRUMPLER: Well, right now I think it's the domestic violence and the shame that comes with, you know, being a player, having to have these negative headlines. You know, as a former player, I still crave the big hit in a football game. But when you're having women turned off to the game of football and not wanting to watch the game of football anymore, that's where the crisis lies. If you can get people to stop watching football games, stop spending their money towards football and the revenue goes down, that's where the crisis lies for me.

KAYE: Yes, and we didn't -- we certainly didn't see that happening this week. I mean we saw plenty of women out there wearing Ray Rice's jersey and supporting him.

Pat, though, how much blame do you think we should pin on the NFL owners? What's their role in this?

O'BRIEN: Well, Roger Goodell is an employee, like the rest of us. Unless Alge owns CNN, but I'm not sure that's happened yet. But he's an employee. Thirty-two guys employ him. He's made them a lot of money. He's done a lot of things for them. So I think the owners have got to step up. Let's find out what they think about this.

But, look, their -- on the spousal abuse, the girlfriend abuse, there is no other side to that story. You hit somebody, you should be gone. You hit somebody with a fist, you should be gone. You pull somebody down the stairs by their hair and you're 6'4", 275 pounds, gone. I mean there should be -- there's no other story to hitting a woman.

KAYE: Yes.

O'BRIEN: I mean, come on. He happens --

CRUMPLER: And you shouldn't need a - and you shouldn't need a videotape for it.

KAYE: There you go. There you go. Thank you for pointing that out.

Alge Crumpler, nice to see you. Thank you so much. Pat, stay with me here.

The NFL has taken a beating, so is it time to sack the commissioner? We're going to talk more about whether Goodell's days are numbered, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Some final thoughts now on the NFL story. Commissioner Roger Goodell is the focus of much of the criticism. What did the commissioner know about the Ray Rice incident, when did he know it, and is his job in jeopardy? Back with me is legendary broadcaster Pat O'Brian.

Pat, if Goodell lied about the Ray Rice video and Rice's version of the elevator incident, do you think he should resign?

O'BRIEN: well, yes, I do think he should resign. But, look, he's not going to. The NFL just makes too much money. He has done a -- he's been a great commissioner, by the way, the most punitive commissioner ever. But I think there will be a massive call for him to quit. That doesn't make sense in the way the NFL works. It's the owners who have to take responsibility for that, not Roger.

But also, don't forget this, the owners have got to step up and do this. It's not -- Roger's an employee, as I said earlier. And then who will replace him? There's too much on their plate right now for this commissioner to leave. But it's the law enforcement in New Jersey that was the problem here. They should have acted immediately and they did not. And that's another place we ought to turn our thoughts to.

KAYE: How, though, is this different, I mean sticking with the NFL, how is this different from the Michael Vick incident? I mean is this the biggest threat, do you think, the NFL has faced?

O'BRIEN: Well, no. The biggest threat they'll face will be going before Congress. But Michael Vick, don't forget, was convicted. He went through the justice system. He served, I think, 18 months in prison. He came back. He was wall to wall news. He came back and now he's a - you know, contributes to that community. This is -- that wasn't covered up either. He -- the law enforcement there took care of that. He went in and went to prison for I think 18 months. Don't hold me on that number.

This one has gone on for months. New Jersey authorities didn't do it. And either they didn't get them the tape or they did. I think he saw the tape. As I said earlier on this network, it's inconceivable to me that Roger Goodell didn't see that tape. They see everything. They know everything. They're listening to us right now. I mean, you know, they know what they're doing over there. So I'm very surprised that -- if he lied, I'm very surprised that he would lie about this. But there's no way he didn't see the tape.

KAYE: Well, with all that's going on though, I mean, what about the sponsors? At some point are they going to start to bail on the NFL?

O'BRIEN: Reality is, how are you going to turn down a Super Bowl commercial, I mean, you know, with that many people watching? The reality is, Madison Avenue's in the business of making money as well. The reality is any, you know, sponsors for the players will go. Like Nike's always the first people to be responsible in this and get rid of a player contract. But the network sponsors, there's just too many people -- the NFL's the number one TV show on Sunday night. It beats "American Idol." It's the number one TV show on Thursday night. It's the number one TV show all day Sunday. I mean, come on. The reality of network television and the economics of it, that doesn't make any sense. They're not going anywhere. And, you know, they tried with Donald Sterling, and how long did that last? A week.

KAYE: Yes.

O'BRIEN: I mean, come on, it's just not going to happen.

KAYE: Yes. Well, I think a lot of people would like to see it happen, but it's certainly not.

Pat O'Brian, nice to chat with you. Thank you.

O'BRIEN: (INAUDIBLE) another Sunday with you, Randi.

KAYE: "The Hunt" starts in just a couple of minutes, but first the headlines making news around the world.

Secretary of State John Kerry saying today that countries in the Middle East are willing to help with strikes against ISIS, but it remains unclear which countries are on that list and the precise role that they will play. Kerry's statements come just as ISIS beheaded a third western captive, British aid worker David Haines. His brother spoke out today reflecting on Haines's life and decade long dedication to humanitarian aid.

American Matthew Miller has been found guilty today of hostile acts by North Korea and sentenced to six years of hard labor. He's been detained in North Korea on unspecified charges since April. Miller went to North Korea on a tourist visa. But what happened next is still pretty unclear. According to state run media, he ripped up that tourist visa and shouted his desire to seek asylum.

Hurricane Odile is churning toward Mexico, Baja, California, peninsula, threatening to slam the popular tourist destination with powerful winds and heavy rains. Forecasters warn the category three storm could strengthen significantly overnight. A dangerous storm surge is expected to bring major flooding to Mexico's Pacific Coast, but drought ravaged California is not expected to benefit at all from the storm.

Pennsylvania state police today released photos of the two officers shot outside a police barracks Friday night. Corporal Byron Dixon was killed, Trooper Alex Douglass remains in the hospital. He is stable, but we're told he is critical. The two men were reportedly ambushed. Nobody's been arrested yet. Police don't know a motive and are warning people that a dangerous criminal is on the loose, possibly still in northeast Pennsylvania.

Well, she is not officially a candidate for president in 2016, I know you know who I'm talking about here, but Hillary Clinton showed up today at arguably the most important political hob knobbing event of the year. She and former President Bill Clinton helped Iowa Senator Tom Harkin host his 37th and final steak fry fundraiser. She said she came for the steak. He's not running for reelection. It's the first time Mrs. Clinton has been in Iowa since she finished a disappointing third in that 2008 presidential caucus right there.

I'm Randi Kaye in New York. Right now, a six hour marathon of "THE HUNT WITH JOHN WALSH" begins. What could drive a man to murder his entire family? "THE HUNT" starts right now.