Return to Transcripts main page
Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield
Man Shot Dead by Utah Police, Mother Claims Racial Profiling; Feinberg Ups G.M. Ignition Switch Death Toll to 19; Actress Detained After Being Mistaken for Prostitute
Aired September 15, 2014 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ASLEY BANFIELD, CNN HOST: Deplorable.
RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN HOST, "UNGUARDED": The question in Texas is, did that level of discipline violate community standards? And the argument that Peterson's lawyer is making is that the community standard is different in Texas than it is maybe in other parts of the country where people are more horrified.
The hope maybe if you are a child advocate is that a high-profile case like this may change the conversation about what the community standards is and why --
BANFIELD: I want to be present at voir dire.
NICHOLS: Rise the community standard up and say maybe that may have been the community standard, but we are raising our bar here, and we are going to say that is not allowed anymore.
BANFIELD: Let me remind everybody, including y'all in Texas in that community, 4-years-old with adorable little, I think, superhero underwear on and bleeding welts caused by a switch.
This is not a smack to the butt. This is not open-handed, corporal punishment spanking debate. This is a serious, serious injury.
KEITH REED, SPORTS BUSINESS ANALYST: And that wasn't the worst part of it. There was actually a detail in this about him actually making contact with genitals when he was -- I mean, that was -- the welts that you saw was not the worst part of that incident.
BANFIELD: Clearly we're going to hear more about it, and you'll have to keep us updated.
NICHOLS: Absolutely.
BANFIELD: If they plan to have him back on the field right away. Continued. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
REED: Thank you.
BANFIELD: Both of you.
Heartbreaking story, also, out of Utah, a young man shot dead by the police and his mom says he is yet another victim of racial profiling. Police say race had nothing to do with this.
But you can make your even mind up when you hear the stats and the facts behind this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: A 22-year-old man is dead, shot apparently in the back, according to some witnesses, several times in the back, by police.
Officers in Saratoga Springs, Utah, say Darrien Hunt was wielding a samurai-type sword. Police also say he lunged at them with that sword.
His mom says the sword was a toy she bought for her mixed-race son. She says he was the victim of racial profiling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN HUNT, MOTHER OF DARRIEN HUNT: I said, what does he look like? You know what they said to me? He's brown. He has an afro.
Really? But did he have on a red shirt?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The family's attorney says an independent autopsy reveals that Hunt was shot several times from behind.
Saratoga Springs police claim that race had no role in the shooting, but of course, there are two sides to this story.
I want to bring in our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. There are a lot of comparisons being drawn right now to obviously the case in Ferguson involving Michael Brown, and we seem to have diametrically opposed witness accounts -- or at least account from the police and the family.
Where do you go with something like this?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you do an investigation. The facts matter. You have to look at the ballistics evidence, where -- the autopsy evidence. Was he shot from the back? Was he shot from the front? What do the other witnesses say? That ultimately is the most important thing.
Although, the other point that I think is very important about this case is the issue of people with mental illness. There have been several reports that Darrien did suffer from mental illness and the problem of how police deal with people like that is a real one.
BANFIELD: That's my next question, because the police don't always know -- sometimes they do, but they don't always know who they are approaching.
(AUDIO BREAK)
BANFIELD: -- or a gun that's toy, they also don't know. How can they possibly treat that person any differently if they don't know what his condition is.
TOOBIN: That's a big problem. But there are a lot of advocates for people with mental illness who say there are ways of trying to diffuse these situations short of violence.
If you recall, right after the Michael Brown killing in Ferguson, there was a man shot in St. Louis --
BANFIELD: Who had mental illness.
TOOBIN: Who had mental illness, who was certainly making threatening gestures.
BANFIELD: And was walking towards police.
TOOBIN: Was walking towards the police --
BANFIELD: With a knife.
TOOBIN: With a knife. Was told to stop.
But there are those who say in a circumstance like that, a clearly disturbed person, maybe there are ways of diffusing the situation short of shooting them.
BANFIELD: I think it's also important to note that sometimes those who are mentally distressed can also be deadly themselves. So it doesn't mean that they be treated with kid gloves. Sometimes it's even more dangerous.
TOOBIN: That's the paradox. That's the difficulty that police have with these circumstances.
BANFIELD: In this case, there's a lot more investigating to be done, specifically because of the shots to the back. So I'll have to have you back on when we start to learn more about this.
It is distressing to hear shots from the back. I know there are circumstances where that can happen, but you'll have to come back on that.
TOOBIN: It is indeed.
BANFIELD: Thank you, Jeff. Appreciate it.
Now to another story that we have been following, the deaths linked to faulty G.M. ignition switches. Some big news today on this, the man in charge of paying the families of the victims has just announced how many deaths exactly he can trace back to those very switches.
G.M. had previously only admitted to 13, but today that number grew. We'll tell you how big and who's in it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BANFIELD: Ken Feinberg, he's the attorney overseeing the compensation fund for victims of that G.M. ignition switch recall. He's now linked 19 deaths to that defect. And that is more than the 13 deaths that General Motors had previously said were definitively tied to that problem.
I want to bring in CNN's Poppy Harlow. She's been covering this right from the beginning.
So we started at 13, 54 apparently linked to accidents, at least that was sort of the bigger pot. But now 19 isn't necessarily where we're ending.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We know that that's not the final number. So Ken Feinberg for the last five week has been accepting these claims from victims and their families who were killed or severely injured in these accidents.
So far, he's gotten 445 claims. He hasn't even reviewed all of them. And so far 19 deaths. You've got on top of that more injuries, serious and not as serious. We're talking about quadriplegics, double amputations, as a result of this defect.
He also said to me in our interview just now, of course that number will rise, that there will be more deaths tied to this. G.M. has always said 13. What I asked him was, who are the victims? Who are we talking about here? Here's what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN FEINBERG, ADMINISTRATOR, G.M. IGNITION SWITCH COMPENSATION FUND: The bulk of the claims, not all of them, involve young drivers, teenagers, early 20s, first automobile that they've owned, Cobalt or eligible Saturn or Ion.
And there are a few interspersed that are older drivers, some retirees even.
But, beyond that, what's essential to this program is that we maintain total confidentiality. People don't want to know other people's business. And so we have a confidentiality rule that we plan to stick with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Interesting, 54 accidents originally acknowledged, over 400 claims now being filed.
And that was so key what he just said about the young people.
HARLOW: Yeah.
BANFIELD: Because as I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, Poppy, when they want their portion of the money, they can apply for how much money that person would have been worth had he or she lived a full live. If you're in your 20s, that's a lot more than if you're in your 50s, 60s, 70s.
HARLOW: That's such a good point. How do you put a price on a life? That is Ken Feinberg's job. That is a nearly impossible job.
But a million-dollars base for anyone that died as a result of this, plus, what their future potential earnings were, he is having to determine that. That is very, very hard to determine.
I asked him also, Ashleigh, how do you personally deal with hearing these horrifying stories, seeing these severe injuries and being objective. And he said, that is the hardest part of the job but I have to be. Keep in mind, GM has -- there's no cap on how much GM might have to pay out. This is just the first sense we're getting. And we already know that the deaths are higher than GM had said throughout because GM used engineers to say that these deaths were definitely caused because of the ignition switch.
Ken Feinberg has a lower bar. It is proximate cause. Is it very likely that your death or injury was caused because of this GM defect? If so, you will be compensated. We're going to find out four to six weeks, many more numbers, how many more deaths may be tied to this.
BANFIELD: I don't envy him. Over 400 of these cases having to read and listen and hear the voices of those who are appealing.
HARLOW: Yes.
BANFIELD: Poppy, thank you.
HARLOW: Sure.
BANFIELD: Thanks for the update. You're really great on staying on that story.
We have another story we want to bring you and it is unusual. Police detained an actress in Hollywood. They thought she was a prostitute after she was seen kissing her boyfriend in public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIELE WATTS, ACTRESS: When the officer came up, he didn't even ask me for my ID. He asked Brian. So he didn't even give me the respect of telling me what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: That's Daniele Watts and she's going to tell more of her story coming up. And the incident begs the question, do you have to show your ID to the police if the policeman asks you? It's a great question with a great answer, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: She is an actress who played in the Oscar-winning film "Django Unchained" and she is mad as hell about being detained by the L.A. Police. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIELE WATTS, ACTRESS, "DJANGO UNCHAINED": Bonjour.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, ACTOR, "DJANGO UNCHAINED": Bonswa (ph). (INAUDIBLE).
We're here to see Mr. Calvin King (ph)?
WATTS: Enter (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: That's Daniele Watts who's now in the spotlight because she says the LAPD detained her because they allegedly thought she was a prostitute and her white boyfriend was the john (ph) after they were seen by a complainant kissing and really making out in their car with the door open. Here is the exchange between her and the officer on audiotape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OFFICER: Somebody called the police saying that there was lewd acts in the car.
DANIELE WATTS: There's been no lewd acts happening. We paid for the meter. We're -
OFFICER: It doesn't matter. I have to ID you.
WATTS: We're not doing anything.
OFFICER: Somebody called -
WATTS: I'm on the phone with my dad. This is my boyfriend. We're sitting in front of this public place.
OFFICER: OK. I want to see your ID. Somebody called, which means -- gives me the right to be here. So it gives me the right to identify you by law.
WATTS: You know how many times I've been called -- the cops have been called just for being black. Just because I'm black and he's white. I'm just being really honest, sir.
OFFICER: That is not - that's - that's - I don't -- who brought up a race card? Why?
WATTS: I'm bringing it up because I - I have every right to be here.
OFFICER: I had -- I said nothing about you being black. And I have every right to ask for your ID.
WATTS: And I - and I have every right to say no. And if you'd like to -
OFFICER: No, you do not have every right to say no.
WATTS: If you'd like to demand it, you can take me down to the court office and I can make a scene about it.
OFFICER: No. No.
WATTS: And, you know what, I have a publicist and I'm working (INAUDIBLE) studio, OK.
OFFICER: I am mildly interested - I'm mildly interested you have a publicist, but I'm going to get your ID.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I'm mildly interested you have a publicist and I'm going to get your ID. Earlier on "New Day," Watts defended her actions. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: So the police show up. I am outside of the car at this point talking to my dad on the phone. And he comes to speak to Brian and asks for my ID. Doesn't even talk to me. Asks Brian for my ID. And when I overhear that while I'm on the phone, I interrupt them and I say to Brian, I say, no, he will not be giving you my ID because I haven't done anything wrong and I know that I'm not required to do that. I'm talking to my dad. Nothing personal, but I'm walking away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Judge Alex Ferrer is here with us now to work me through this one.
Let's just talk about the ID issue, because this has also come up with a reporter.
JUDGE ALEX FERRER, FORMER HOST, "JUDGE ALEX": Yes.
BANFIELD: And I'll just throw the race in there, a white reporter, in Ferguson who was asked by a police officer, show me your ID and he refused and things got ugly.
FERRER: Right.
BANFIELD: Do we have to show our ID if a police officer asks us?
FERRER: Yes and no. I mean it depends on what information the police officer has, because police officers have a right to come up and investigate whether you're involved in a crime. In this scenario, what you have to remember is, they received a call from somebody and it wasn't people are kissing in the car. The call they received was, there's a lewd sexual act being performed by a white and black couple in a car. So --
BANFIELD: Which, by the way, the white and black part shouldn't make any difference in this entire scenario. FERRER: Other than - exactly, other than when he showed up I believe he said to them, look, we were called and told there was a white male with a black female in the car performing lewd sexual acts. That might just be to tell them that's the reason I'm stopping you and not somebody else.
BANFIELD: Description.
FERRER: Exactly, the description.
BANFIELD: OK.
FERRER: But they're responding to a complaint that there's a sexual act being performed in a car. So they have a right to demand identification.
Now, from your perspective, you're like, wait a minute, I haven't done anything wrong. But as long as they have a reasonable suspicion some offense is being committed, they have a right to demand the identification.
BANFIELD: So I can completely understand Daniele's - I mean you just saw the picture of her. She's just devastated.
FERRER: Yes. And she was great in "Django," by the way. She was awesome in that. She was awesome.
BANFIELD: One of my faves, and especially the French part of it.
But I can understand how devastated she would be, being mistaken for a prostitute and she was just with her boyfriend. But she was asked about the kind of act -
FERRER: Yes.
BANFIELD: That she was engaged in by Michaela Pereira, my very astute colleague live on "New Day" -
FERRER: Right.
BANFIELD: And she really kind of ducked that one. She didn't say what it was that they were doing --
FERRER: No, she said, I can do anything as long as I have my clothes on.
BANFIELD: She says, as long as I have my clothes on, I can do anything.
Let me ask you this as well since you've been in law enforcement and, you know, you have been in every courtroom with every single thing that's come across your bench, when someone says, I have a publicist and I'm an actress, is that sort of tantamount to, don't you know who I am?
FERRER: Yes, it's kind of like, I'm friends with the chief. BANFIELD: Oh. (INAUDIBLE).
FERRER: It doesn't really get you -- I thought the police officer handled it very well. He said, I'm mildly interested in the fact that you have a publicist, but I'm still going to need to see your ID.
BANFIELD: Yes.
FERRER: You know, I don't know, maybe celebrities -- it may be that she's had run-ins with law enforcement before in circumstances that weren't justified but it -
BANFIELD: So she brought that up.
FERRER: Yes.
BANFIELD: She said, do you know how many times the police have been called because I'm black. And then the officer, I think, it sounded like he took offense and said, you just pulled a race card.
FERRER: Yes.
BANFIELD: But I can see where she's coming from because it's no secret there is a problem with the police and the black community and their relationship.
FERRER: You know, you and I have had this discussion before. It's a matter of perspective.
BANFIELD: Yes.
FERRER: People who have been stopped by the police and feel it was wrongfully or racially motivated have that perspective and they will see - the Ferguson scenario in one - one way. People who haven't will see it in another way.
BANFIELD: Yes.
FERRER: And the same with this case.
BANFIELD: So let me ask you this. Isn't it a little bit like the DUI scenario where you don't have to blow in to the device on the scene, but it means you're going to the hoosegow for a while.
FERRER: Well, this is -
BANFIELD: Like you can make your choice, but you can't complain about what happens after.
FERRER: Sure.
BANFIELD: If you don't give your ID, something's going to happen. You're not just going to walk away.
FERRER: This is what I tell my children, and we're going to see a lot more cases like this because people -- BANFIELD: Did you just say this is what you tell your children?
FERRER: Yes.
BANFIELD: Oh my gosh (ph).
FERRER: Not about DUI. This is what I tell my children.
BANFIELD: OK.
FERRER: If a police officer stops you and you think they're acting inappropriately, still comply because you can beat the wrap, but you can't beat the ride.
BANFIELD: You can't beat the ride. That's it.
FERRER: If they arrest you, you're still going to jail.
BANFIELD: So let me give you the -
FERRER: You can complain later.
BANFIELD: You can complain later, but you can't complain if you don't give the ID.
The LAPD, by the way, gave us this statement. "There was an indication on a radio call that a" - I hate this - "a male white and a female black" - I hate when people are called, you know, as a noun by the color.
FERRER: In the description, yes.
BANFIELD: "Were involved in a sexual act inside a Mercedes with the vehicle door open. It people were briefly detained but it was revealed no crime had been committed," period. And that's all they said.
FERRER: Now, mind you, if she'd given her ID right away -
BANFIELD: Yes.
FERRER: That would have ended in about 30 seconds.
BANFIELD: Lesson learned. Thank you for giving us the lesson you give your children. Alex Ferrer, always good to see you.
FERRER: Always a pleasure.
BANFIELD: Thanks for being here.
Hey, thanks for watching, everybody. My colleague, Wolf, starts after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
