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Don Lemon Tonight

Pennsylvania Manhunt; NFL Scandal; ISIS Embraces Modern Technology; New York Man Accused of Recruiting for ISIS; Anger Over Adrian Peterson Abuse Scandal; Mom Founds Organization to Educate about Abuse

Aired September 16, 2014 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. This is CNN tonight. I'm Don Lemon.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Great to have you back, Don.

LEMON: Good to be back.

CAMEROTA: I'm Alisyn Camerota.

Tonight, we have breaking news for you: a Rochester man indicted for allegedly recruiting for ISIS and plotting to attack U.S. troops returning from Iraq. Is the terror threat growing at home?

LEMON: Plus, manhunt: police searching for a Pennsylvania man they believe ambushed two state troopers, killing one and seriously wounding the other and threatening to commit mass murder. Eric Matthew Frein armed and dangerous with survivalist skills. We are going to talk to a friend of the suspect.

CAMEROTA: All right, so, Don, let's begin with that breaking news.

A Rochester, New York man indicted on charges of trying to recruit for is.

CNN's Evan Perez joins us with more.

What do we know, Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, this -- this man, 30-year-old Mufid Elfgeeh, who is a Yemeni-American citizen, lives in Rochester, he was indicted today and charged with trying to recruit three people to try to join the group ISIS over in Syria.

Now, two of those people that he tried to recruit turned out to be informants for the FBI and the other one was in Yemen. And this just underscores the problem that U.S. officials say is really a growing problem here in the United States with people getting recruited to join ISIS and other terror groups overseas, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: We know that this suspect was a frequent user of Twitter. Is that part of how they found him?

PEREZ: That's exactly right. The FBI took notice of his tweets. He kept doing tweets in support of ISIS and al Qaeda.

At one point, he was urging people to send money. At one point, he even had a hashtag going that said $5,000 from every household urging people to help support the jihad cause.

CAMEROTA: OK, but you mentioned that they also used informants. What role did those play?

PEREZ: Well, after the FBI noticed these tweets, they introduced a couple of informants. Now, both these informants, the FBI says, were on their payroll. One of them got $21,000. And the FBI helped get five family members visas into the United States.

The other is a former drug felon and has been paid about $4,000, Alisyn. And you can bet this is going to be an issue when this gentleman shows up in court. Tomorrow, his lawyer says, by the way, that he is going to enter a not-guilty plea.

CAMEROTA: OK. So we heard that he had tried to get weapons. That was ultimately his undoing. But what was his ultimate plan?

PEREZ: His ultimate plan was, first of all, to carry out some shooting attacks here in the United States against U.S. soldiers returning from overseas. At one point, he's talking to the -- to the FBI informant. And he even mentions carrying out, carrying out up to about 20 shootings here in the United States before perhaps going overseas to do -- to join ISIS or whatever other group he wanted to join.

CAMEROTA: All right. We will obviously keep an eye on this. Evan Perez, thanks so much.

PEREZ: Sure.

LEMON: We're going to turn now to our other breaking news here tonight on CNN. And that is a manhunt in Pennsylvania.

CNN's Jason Carroll is there for us live.

Jason, Eric Matthew Frein is now wanted for murder. What do we know about him?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that he is armed. And he's already proven himself, Don, to be extremely deadly.

We also know, according to police, that this is a man who had a grudge against law enforcement, took out his anger against two Pennsylvania State Troopers on Friday, killing Bryon Dickson, badly injuring Alex Douglass. We are told that Douglass came out of surgery just yesterday and is improving. So that's certainly some good news.

Now the manhunt is under way for this man. Police already have found about two-and-a-half miles from where we are right now the suspect's jeep. Inside that jeep, Don, they found a lot of evidence, they say, including spent casings, the suspect's driver's license, his Social Security card, camouflage makeup, and also military gear. Also earlier today, police came out and spoke about this man and gave

some insights, very little insight, but some, into his motive for the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANK NOONAN, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE COMMISSIONER: This fellow is extremely dangerous. We have no idea where he is in the community.

He has been described as a survivalist. He has a lot of training in that particular area. He has made statements about wanting to kill law enforcement officers and also to commit mass acts of murder.

What his reasons are, we don't know. But he has very strong feelings about law enforcement and seems to be very angry with a lot of things that go on in our society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Police also ended up at the home where this man lived with his parents. His father says that two firearms are missing, including an AK-47, in addition to that a rifle as well.

And he also gave a little more insight into his son. He said his son has grown up with guns. At one point in high school, he was actually a member of the rifle club, also basically saying, when asked about his son and how well he can shoot, he says when he shoots, he never misses -- Don.

LEMON: Jason Carroll, Jason, thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: All right, Don, we're going to talk more about this, because joining us on a phone is a close friend of the suspect, Eric Matthew Frein. His name is Jack. And he has asked for us not to use his last name.

Jack, are you with us?

JACK, FRIEND OF SUSPECT: Yes, I'm here.

CAMEROTA: All right, how did you meet Eric?

JACK: Well, we met, met through a mutual group of friends about seven or eight years ago now.

He was a pretty rational guy. He wasn't -- he was intelligent. When people say that he is a survivalist, there is almost somewhat of a negative connotation to that with what the local news sources have been propagating. He was an Eagle Scout. He was -- he had been involved in the Boy Scouts for about maybe five or six years.

CAMEROTA: OK. You heard what the police press conference there said. They said that he was angry about society, that he was distrustful of government and that he made statements that he wanted to kill police officers. What did you hear him say about those things?

JACK: Well, he definitely -- he definitely let his opinions about the government be known.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: What were those?

JACK: Well, I mean, he was obviously a big critic of the -- of the federal government.

But he never specifically targeted police when he was talking to me, no indications of really any malice towards law enforcement in particular. Mostly, most of his aggression was towards the federal government. And I am curious as to where exactly news sources have been finding these comments about him talking about killing police officers over social media, because, as it was a big -- getting ahold of Eric was notoriously hard within our group of friends because of his lack of social media use.

CAMEROTA: Huh. When is the last time you talked to him?

JACK: About a month ago.

CAMEROTA: Do you think that he was the one who shot these two police officers and killed officer Bryon Dickson?

JACK: Well, I'm kind of reserving judgment at this point. It's -- it's hard for me to say. There are several aspects of the case that seem really odd to me?

CAMEROTA: Such as?

JACK: Especially him -- if someone was going to theoretically commit a crime like this, I'm really perplexed as to why he would have his Social Security card and a litany of other information detailing who he is and where he lives.

CAMEROTA: Yes. You are referring to the fact that police found Frein's Social Security card, gaming permit, some face paint and shell casings about two miles from the crime scene.

So you are skeptical, because you think he would have planned it better?

JACK: What's that? I'm sorry?

CAMEROTA: You are skeptical of all the things police say they found that suggest that it was Eric Frein, because you think he was smarter than that?

JACK: I'm not necessarily skeptical about it.

But it just -- it raises some odd questions, in my opinion, as to why he would -- why would he do that, because knowing he character, he was an extremely intelligent individual. If he wanted to pull something look like this off, I think he would have planned it out better than he had.

CAMEROTA: Well, Jack...

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Yes, go ahead.

JACK: I'm sorry. What?

CAMEROTA: Did you have a final thought?

JACK: I -- it's hard for -- with media hype, it is really easy to get sucked in and go on the bandwagon without seeing the bringing picture, but coming from a personal perspective, you kind of see things -- you see things differently.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Obviously, if you are friends with the suspect, we understand that.

JACK: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Well, Jack, thank you so much for talking to us tonight. And we know that you, if he contacts you, will do the right thing. Thanks so much.

JACK: Yes, yes. All right, thank you.

CAMEROTA: There is a $75,000 reward for finding this guy. So, if anybody has any information, call your local authorities, and they will put you in touch with the right people.

LEMON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Of course, our next guest knew how to track down a suspect on the run.

Jim Clemente is a retired FBI profiler, and Chris Swecker is a former assistant director of the FBI who led the team that captured Eric Rudolph.

Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.

Chris, we just said that you helped track down Eric Rudolph. What goes into finding somebody who is a so-called survivalist?

CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Well, number one, you have the traditional search things, the dogs, the cordoned area, 200 areas saturating the area in a very disciplined, very methodical search.

But I really think the most important component to a search like this, a manhunt like this is getting the public involved, getting the public hyper-aware of the suspect's picture, profile, making sure that he is pinned done to a geographical area. He can't move. He can't go anywhere without being spotted and identified.

So that -- and hopefully we pinned him into a well-defined area. And then he will be found. LEMON: Jim, when you are looking for people look this, you have to

take into consideration his father, a retired Army major, taught his son how to shoot, that he was a member of a high school rifle team involved in military reenactments. Is this dangerous for law enforcement to go after him?

SWECKER: I think it is dangerous for anyone in the area.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: It's for Jim.

SWECKER: Oh, I'm sorry.

JIM CLEMENTE, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Yes. It's OK.

Of course, it is dangerous. Actually this guy, the guy who has voiced his opinions, his grudge against the government, law enforcement officers are the face of the government for normal everyday people. He is actually probably feeling like a hero right now, because he was able to get away with this for now.

He feels like the people that agree with him will sort of hold him up as a hero. That's why I disagree with what Jack said earlier. I think his post-offense behavior, leaving that stuff in the car, was so he could actually take credit for it. He didn't walk in and give himself up. He wants to take credit, but still be free. And I think that's what we are seeing.

LEMON: So, will -- you think he will go back to where he was, or will he stay in the woods? Like, how far away do you think he would be? Because many times we think people are going to be far away and they turn out to be close to the crime scene, Jim.

CLEMENTE: I think you are going to see similarities to what happened with the Dorner case, in that I think he might circle around areas.

But he may go to an area where he feels is much more rural, and where there isn't a huge law enforcement presence. And I think he will probably try to hole up in a place like that. But, unfortunately for him and fortunately for law enforcement, they will never stop looking for him.

CAMEROTA: Chris, we know 200 law enforcement officers are at this hour searching for him. Generally, how do these cases end? When somebody has nothing to lose and they can stay -- they know how to stay in the wilderness for some time, what generally happens?

SWECKER: Well, I agree with Jim that he is going to -- what he is going to do is seek some place of refuge, because he can't go anywhere. I mentioned the publicity. He has got to keep his head down.

What I worry about is he finds a house, finds some where to get -- to break into and takes hostages. I think that is the biggest concern in a fugitive hunt look this. If we have got him pinned done to a certain area and he just can't move around, he is almost left with no other alternatives.

CAMEROTA: And do you think that they have him pinned to a certain area, Jim?

CLEMENTE: It's possible.

But I think the other alternative is that he listens to a broadcast like this and he understands that the best way to get his message across is actually to come in. To go out in a blaze of glory is not going to make him a hero. But he can actually speak to the people if he has an opportunity, if he comes in and he does it peacefully.

LEMON: Let's hope that he does surrender and that this all can end peacefully without any more loss of the police officers' lives.

Jim, Chris, thank you.

LEMON: That's interesting to hear...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: ... what his friend says. And then we will hear what law enforcement says about him, two different things.

CAMEROTA: Yes, absolutely.

LEMON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: All right, next, more U.S. airstrikes on ISIS. Meanwhile, less than a week after the president promised no boots on the ground in Iraq, his top general says they are a possibility. Is there a disconnect in the administration?

LEMON: Plus, growing anger over the Adrian Peterson child abuse scandal, but where do you draw the line between discipline and abuse? Is the answer like so much in this country have to do with race? It's a controversial question. And we're going to get to it all tonight coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Our breaking news tonight.

A Rochester, New York, man is indicted on charges of trying to recruit for ISIS and plotting to attack returning troops. He is a naturalized American citizen born in Yemen.

Meanwhile, the White House insists U.S. troops will not be used on the ground against ISIS. But the chairman of the Joint Chiefs sent officials scrambling after he told Congress that he is open to putting American boots on the ground.

We are joined now by Rick Francona, CNN military analyst and former U.S. military attache in Syria, and Juliette Kayyem, CNN national security analyst, Peter Beinart, who is a CNN political commentator and a columnist for "Haaretz." Colonel Francona, let's start with you.

The president said that he wasn't going to drag the U.S. into another long protracted war in Iraq. No boots on the ground. Is this mission changing? What is the mission?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, if you take the president at his word, which I do, he said the mission is to degrade and destroy ISIS.

Now, that involves not only operations in Iraq, but operations in Syria. If we are going to do that, we are going to have to have somebody's boots on the ground both places. Iraq, not a problem. We have got 300,000 Iraqi and Peshmerga fighters who are getting their act together. They're getting the weapons they need. I think that will be a success story in Iraq.

I think the problem will be is when we move into the Syria phase of this, who is going to fight? There is some conflicting information. I know the government wants to train and equip the Syrian rebels, the Free Syrian Army, but the Free Syrian Army has said they're really not interested in fighting ISIS.

They're more interested in going after the government in Damascus. So there is a disconnect there. If we are going to have boots on the ground in Syria, we have got to find out who that is going to be.

LEMON: But you said degrade and destroy. I want you to listen to what the chairman of the Joint Chiefs said today. Listen to his language.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF CHAIRMAN: I believe we can destroy ISIL in Iraq, restore the Iran -- correction -- the Iraq-Syria border, and disrupt ISIL in Syria.

ISIL will ultimately be defeated when their cloak of religious legitimacy is stripped away and the population on which they have imposed themselves reject them. Our actions are intended to move in that direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He said destroy or disrupt. What is it? Is it destroy? Is it disrupt or degrade and destroy? What's going on with the language here, Colonel?

FRANCONA: That is a change. That's not what the president said. So I think they're walking back. I think reality is setting in, because they realize the Syrian portion of this will be very, very difficult, given the situation on the ground.

CAMEROTA: Hey, Juliette, I understand why the president politically is being so explicit about what we are not going to do in Iraq or Syria, but strategically speaking, why is he ruling out boots on the ground and is it bad that he is telegraphing that to ISIS?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Oh, I don't think it is bad at all. And I think what you are seeing is not so much an inconsistent statement.

I think the Pentagon, as we have seen over the past month, has been pretty aggressive about some of its statements about ISIS and then you sort of see the White House kind of pull them back. That's natural. That's sort of the interagency push and pull as different pieces of a strategy get put together.

We should amplify no boots on the ground, if nothing else, than to try to force some of these allies in Arab countries to begin to support our air mission and our intelligence mission. I think don't think it is a political decision to say no boots on the ground. If you put boots on the ground, why are you doing it? If you put boots on the ground in Syria in a country in which the leader of that country, I don't carry what we say about the border, says that they're his borders, that's a very, very different dynamic than -- as Rick said, than in Iraq.

LEMON: Peter, how is this going to play out on the ground? Is it enough to just push them out of Iraq? What is going to happen with Syria?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think the natural result is that we have a much stronger force in Iraq. And then ISIS moves on the other side of border.

And I think what was honest about what we just heard from Dempsey was the idea that while we may able to do a lot of damage in Iraq, that our efforts in Syria are probably going to be more modest. He only used the word disrupt, because we don't have ground allies in Syria in the same way.

And I just think it exposes the larger I would say farce of this public claim that we are going to destroy ISIS. We are not going to destroy ISIS. Al Qaeda is still around, you know, 13 years after 9/11. And even if ISIS were to be destroyed, there would be some new version of this kind of Salafi jihadist movement. This is going to be around for a very, very long time.

And although it kind of -- it plays well politically to kind of thump your chest and say, we are going to destroy them, in fact, the realistic strategy is to try to limit the amount of damage they can do to us and their allies and that destroying is something that is going to happen decade and decades down the road, and ultimately is going to come from the Muslim world itself.

CAMEROTA: All right, stand by, guys. We have another important topic to talk about with you, because ISIS, as you know, is all over social media.

They recruit. They spread propaganda. And they raise money. They're very good at it. But social media could also be their undoing. We will explain when we come back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: As we have seen with the beheadings of two American journalists and a British aid worker, ISIS uses violence and brutality that is straight out of the medieval era. But it also embraces modern technology and has a savvy social media department.

Here is CNN's Joe Johns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a threat like no other, a powerful battlefield force and a commanding online presence.

ADM. MICHAEL S. ROGERS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY: ISIL has been aggressive in the use of media, in the use of technology, in the use of the Internet, so it's not something that I'm -- it's something I am watching.

JOHNS: But fighting ISIS online is a game of Whac-A-Mole for the U.S. and other countries. ISIS generates thousands of social media accounts, official and unofficial, reaching sympathizers, spreading propaganda, recruiting followers, raising money.

But as soon as they surface, the social media companies start shutting down those accounts.

STAFFAN TRUVE, CO-FOUNDER, RECORDED FUTURE: In August, we saw more than 27,000 accounts which were talking about ISIS in a positive way.

JOHNS: ISIS began on Twitter and YouTube at first, moving also to lesser-known sites, Friendica.eu and Quitter.

RITA KATZ, DIRECTOR, SEARCH FOR INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST ENTITIES: They don't create one account. But they create several accounts.

JOHNS: Rita Katz tracks the group. She says the online world is lifeline for ISIS and publicity is their oxygen.

KATZ: If they are executing an individual, and they cannot view it to the entire world, much of their activities will be demolished, actually, dismissed.

JOHNS: ISIS released video of the first beheading of American journalist James Foley on the social media platform Diaspora. ISIS planned to publicize its execution of Steven Sotloff on the Russian social media site VK, but it may have been published early by mistake.

For the most recent beheading video of British aid worker David Haines, ISIS returned to Twitter, anonymously releasing "A Message to the Allies of America." It came after a pro-ISIS group issued death threats against Twitter employees.

(on camera): Twitter declined an interview but did share its policy of shutting down accounts case by case, in the event of unlawful use of the site or threats of violence. And Twitter says it acts on its own when the government tells it about extremists and terrorists.

(voice-over): The question is whether western intelligence prefers ISIS and friends to keep tweeting. One U.S. strategy being used is spreading video similar to ISIS but with an anti-terror message.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, FORMER MEMBER, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: So there's a side that says, go and shut them down. There's another side: keep them active so that we learn more about them and understand and not only what they're doing but who they are.

JOHNS: And where. Though most agree the power of terror is all about spreading the message.

Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: All right. Back with us to talk about all this is Colonel Rick Francona, Juliette Kayyem, and Peter Beinart.

Juliette, I want to start with you and about the double-edged sword that is social media. We had breaking news tonight, this terror suspect out of Rochester, New York, was arrested after he had connect -- tried to connect with other people, other terror suspects, and he had expressed his support for al Qaeda on Twitter. But that was also how law enforcement came to be aware of him.

So on balance, is it good that terror suspects use social media, because we know they also raise money that way? Or is it helpful for law enforcement, or is it not?

KAYYEM: Well, I think for the most part, it's helpful for law enforcement. I know that's sometimes hard to hear, especially when we see what's being posted. And look, we're trying, Twitter and other companies are trying to close them.

But one of the benefits of an organization like, like ISIS or ISIL is that they're so -- let's just say they'll take anyone. Right? I mean, they are just trying to lure anyone in. They're not -- the price of admission is not very high. And this is very different than al Qaeda, the early al Qaeda, which was very disciplined.

And so we -- so law enforcement, intelligence agencies and international intelligence agencies can actually monitor it to see where they are getting recruits. Where is the money going? How are they getting money? All the questions that we need answered.

So if I had to choose, although I think we can do both -- if I had to choose, I would say definitely leave them open.

LEMON: Rick, you don't think that they should shut down these social media sites, even though they're reaching out through social media?

FRANCONA: Not at all. I agree with exactly what Juliette just said. You know, having done -- I've been in the intelligence business for a long time. This is a question we've been dealing with for years. Early on, it was when you go into a military operation, do you jam

their communications or do you listen to their communications? Do you take the intelligence or do you shut down their ability to talk to each other? I think on balance we find out that we actually get more information if we don't jam.

And transfer that to the modern technology. There's so much information out there. There's so much intelligence available and open sourced that I think we do ourselves a great harm by shutting down these sites. I know that we've been able to keep track of what's going on. When we don't have assets on the ground we can do it through what they tell us.

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, Peter, you know, just last week, ISIS made these specific violent threats to management and workers at Twitter. They said that they should be assassinated Because Twitter keeps shutting them down when they find them, ISIS said that they should be assassinated by lone wolves. So you can't blame Twitter for trying to shut down these -- this violent rhetoric when they find it.

BEINART: Right, absolutely. It's totally understandable that Twitter would have this policy when anyone threatens violence.

But I think, you know, to follow up on what Juliette and Rick said, I think the question is if there's going to be a competition in social media between ISIS on the one hand and those who oppose its barbaric agenda on the other.

I think the question that's raised for the United States government is how can the United States effectively communicate? Do we have the legitimacy with the kind of people who we want to influence in the Muslim world: potential recruits, potential supporters of ISIS, to be able to speak ourselves? Or how do we try to find allies who can speak more legitimately than us?

And ultimately, it goes back to, I think, the question of our own legitimacy, as a voice standing for various principles, in -- when we're speaking to Muslims. Do we have the credibility to show up ISIS by, in fact, being able to present ourselves as -- as a group of people that, as a country, whose agenda actually has the interests of Muslims at heart.

CAMEROTA: Good suggestion. Peter, Juliette, Colonel Francona, thanks so much.

FRANCONA: Sure.

LEMON: And coming up, Adrian Peterson of the Vikings loses a major endorsement deal over charges of child abuse. His indictment has sparked, really, a nationwide conversation. Where do you draw the line between discipline and abuse? We're going to debate that next.

CAMEROTA: I'll look forward to that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Breaking news tonight to tell you about. Ray Rice has appealed his indefinite suspension by the NFL over that caught-on-tape video that showed him knocking out his then-fiancee with one punch.

Meanwhile, there's growing anger over the Adrian Peterson case of child abuse. The child abuse scandal. Now Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton released a statement that reads in part like this. He says, "A whipping -- whipping a child to the extent of visible wounds, as has been alleged, should not be tolerated in our state. Therefore, I believe the team should suspend Mr. Peterson until the accusations of child abuse have been resolved by the criminal justice system."

Adrian Peterson has been dropped by one of his largest sponsors, Castrol motor oil, and NFL sponsor Anheuser-Busch is expressing concerns over how the league is handling all of its domestic abuse allegations.

So joining us now to talk about it is Dr. Harold Koplewicz, president of the Child Mind Institute; and Asadah Kirkland, author of "Beating Black Kids"; and Van Jones, co-host of CNN's "CROSSFIRE."

I'm going to start with you, Asadah. I mean, just the name of your book, "Beating Black Kids." Do you think it's such an issue that you had to write a book about it?

ASADAH KIRKLAND, AUTHOR, "BEATING BLACK KIDS": But of course. In the black community, beating our children seems to be some cultural norm that we even brag about. You hear a lot of black comedians brag about it, like as if it's a powerful thing to do. But it's actually the thing that is debilitating us. And it's a cultural epidemic, in that you find it in our community more than anybody, and it just shapes everything that we do.

LEMON: Do you believe that, Van?

VAN JONES, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Well, the numbers bear out a lot of what she's saying. The African-American community, 80 percent in support of corporal punishment. However, the white community is 70 percent in support of corporal punishment. Born-again Christians are 80 percent supportive. But non-Christians are 65 percent supportive of corporal punishment.

In other words, we live in a society where the majority of all races, the majority of all regions support corporal punishment.

LEMON: But does that make it right, Van? Does that make it right, either way?

JONES: Doesn't make it right. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't make it right. But stay with me, though. If we're going to make a change, we have to make sure that we don't pretend that it's only a black issue, No. 1. And we have to begin to understand where this stuff comes from.

Listen, I don't believe in corporal punishment. I don't use it on my kids. But I'm trying to understand where it comes from. CAMEROTA: Dr. Koplewicz, we have been talking about this -- hold on, let me ask Dr. Koplewicz, because we have been talking about this so much in our staff meetings, our editorial meetings, and even Don has been offering his childhood experience.

And there are some people, Don included, who think that corporal punishment or being spanked helped them stay on the straight and narrow. That's what Adrian Peterson said yesterday. He said it kept him off the streets. But you say that it's always wrong. So how can you say that?

DR. HAROLD KOPLEWICZ, PRESIDENT, CHILD MIND INSTITUTE: So let me make it very clear: There's no evidence that corporate punishment is effective as a parenting tool. And it doesn't make a difference if you're black, white, Hispanic, if you come from the north, the south. You shouldn't hit your children.

If you want to get your children to behave, we know how to do that. We know that consequences make sense. We know time-out makes sense. And most importantly, we know that positive reinforcement makes sense.

LEMON: Time-out makes sense.

KOPLEWICZ: Yes.

LEMON: If someone, if a parent -- if my parent had told me time-out as a kid, I would laugh at them if they sent me to my room. Because that's exactly what I wanted. That is not a punishment for a child, sending them to their room.

KOPLEWICZ: Well, it all depends on what's inside their room.

Let me go back to what we do know about effective parenting. The one thing we don't pay enough attention to is positive behavior. So positive behavior is always the underdog. We expect kids to sit still. We expect them to behave at the restaurant. We expect them to listen to us. We very rarely ever say, "Thank you very much for doing as I say. I really appreciate it."

What we do do, though, is that we do reinforce negative behavior. So if you're not sitting up straight, if you're messing around at the table in a restaurant, we say something to you. So what we know is that there's a science to positive behavior.

LEMON: All right. What are you saying, though? Are you saying that parents should allow their kids to roam around a restaurant or around a public place and just allow them at will to do whatever they want?

KOPLEWICZ: Absolutely not. I think that there's three things they should do. When your kid does something that you want them to do, you actually praise them. You label the praise. You say, "Thank you very much for doing as I say. Thank you for being so polite at the table. And being so cooperative."

When they do insignificant off-task behavior, you should ignore it. If they don't clean up on the first count, you give them, three or four counts before you repeat it.

LEMON: That sound like it -- that sounds like it works well in a book. But in practically. Hang on, I know a lot of parents are listening. Listen, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'm not a parent. I'm not a parent. I know that you're an expert.

But I know that a lot of parents, and a lot of people are watching and saying, "That's -- it's easy to say on television. But for a practical, everyday use, my child doesn't listen to me. My child has disciplinary issues."

KIRKLAND: Because they're talking like the Charlie Brown teacher.

LEMON: Yes, go ahead.

KIRKLAND: I'm sorry.

KOPLEWICZ: Let's take the opposite side. There's two things. One, we do have science, and we can prove this works. But more importantly, what do we know about hitting kids? Hitting kids is bad for two reasons. One, you're never really in control when you smack your kid. And No. 2, it's a model that you didn't want your children using. You don't want your kids hitting other people. You don't want your kids...

JONES: Can we talk about -- can we talk about why parents do it?

KOPLEWICZ: What you do is...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: It's not just my parents. I've been thinking because of your...

KOPLEWICZ: ... basically having a tough time when they have to learn how to control their emotions.

LEMON: But we're not just talking about hitting kids. You're saying that you should give them positive reinforcement. But if a kid does something that is not right, you should never tell them that's wring; don't do it? You should just let them do it and...?

KOPLEWICZ: No, no, no. I'm saying that -- I'm saying that when they do insignificant off-task behaviors, wait before you jump on them.

CAMEROTA: All right, Asadah, I see you shaking your head. You want to get in there.

KIRKLAND: Yes.

CAMEROTA: What?

KIRKLAND: Yes, you see me shaking my head over here. Yes. Because basically, I mean, you remember Charlie Brown's teacher. Charlie Brown's teacher, what does she sound like?

CAMEROTA: Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah.

KIRKLAND: That is what-- that's right. That is what we sound like to young people, because we're talking at them. We're not having conversations with them.

And so how many of us are asking our daughters or sons at the end of the day, "How was school? What did you do? Oh, that's interesting." It's like we're not validating them. We're not having conversations with them. We're talking at them and giving directives. And it just makes us ineffective.

Because think about yourself as an adult. When I -- if I talk to you now and give you directives and talk at you, you're probably going to dislike me and then not talk to me ever again. But you can't do that with your parents.

So we need to foster behavior that builds them up. And that just changes the way. Like we talk to each other, talk to your child. And give them power...

JONES: I think that's right.

KIRKLAND: ... give them Love, let them feel nurtured.

JONES: I want to say one more thing.

KIRKLAND: And that's how it works.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, van.

JONES: Well, first of all, I think that, first of all, both of these are experts. I hope that people at home will read their books, read their works. It's been enlightening for me.

I think a lot of what we're seeing, at least in the black community, is what I would call almost preemptive abuse. I talked to a lot of black parents today, and they said, "Listen, I feel like if I'm not tough on my kids at home, the police and the schoolteachers and society is going to be even tougher on them out in the world. So I'm going to be super tough on my kids here, so they're ready for the word."

Now, to me that sounds like preemptive abuse. Well, you're going to be more abusive than society to prepare your kids for society. But this is the kind of attitude. So that's why you hear this football player saying, "I thought I was doing a good thing."

Then the media jumps on him and says, "Well, he's just an abuser in denial." I think we need to understand that people do not have the tools. We don't have the tools.

LEMON: If you look at the pictures, if you look at the pictures of what Adrian Peterson...

JONES: The pictures are terrible. LEMON: ... clearly if he did that, that's abuse. But I think most people would think a spanking is not -- you're calling a spanking abuse on television. That's not necessarily so.

KOPLEWICZ: So let me just tell you that...

CAMEROTA: Very quickly.

KOPLEWICZ: ... we know there's two things parents are supposed to do. They're supposed to have control, and they're supposed to have warmth.

LEMON: OK.

KOPLEWICZ: That's what builds the most effective type of kid who's going to be independent. Means that you talk to your kid.

KIRKLAND: Mm-hmm.

KOPLEWICZ: You have a lot of communication. But at the end of the day, the kid knows who's in charge.

LEMON: We've got to run.

KOPLEWICZ: The parent sets the rules.

LEMON: Thank you, Doctor.

KOPLEWICZ: You can set rules, and you can keep discipline without hitting your kid.

LEMON: Thank you, Doctor. Thank you, everyone.

KOPLEWICZ: There is absolutely no reason.

LEMON: He can't hear.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Koplewicz, Asadah Kirkland, Van Jones.

LEMON: His earpiece -- his earpiece came out. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Got it. Thanks so much for that debate.

LEMON: Also tonight we want to tell you that the mother of Adrian Peterson's son, the child he is charged with abusing, is expressing outrage over what she calls the invasion of their privacy. The statement from her attorney reads, in part, "My client is hurt and outraged that the press would publish throughout the world pictures of their minor son and publish statements allegedly made as part of the private and confidential criminal investigative file."

CNN will continue to only show the pictures when necessary.

CAMEROTA: All right. In the wake of the Ray Rice case, we have been -- also been having a national conversation about domestic abuse and relationship violence. Next, a mother whose daughter was a victim tells you what we can all do to help stop the abuse. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: You probably remember the tragic case of Yeardley Love. She was the beautiful University of Virginia lacrosse player who was killed by her ex-boyfriend in a case of relationship violence. Something that is all too common on college campuses. And often there are warning signs that loved ones see, but they don't know how to address.

Yeardley Love's mom, Sharon, decided to do something about that. She started the One Love Foundation to help us all learn to spot domestic violence and stop it. Sharon joins us tonight, along with Katie Hood, the CEO of the One Love Foundation. Ladies, it's great to have you with us tonight.

SHARON LOVE, FOUNDER, ONE LOVE FOUNDATION: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Sharon, I want to start with you. I know that this week has been very painful for you as you've listened to all of the commentary about Ray and Janay Rice and about relationship violence, and of course, it's forced you to have to relive what happened in your own family. Can you take us back four years and tell us what happened with Yeardley?

LOVE: Yes. Three weeks before graduation, Yeardley was asleep at home. Ready, getting ready for a test the next day. And he broke in and beat her to death. Her ex-boyfriend. And -- it was an unbelievable. I still to, to this day, sometimes can't believe that happened.

CAMEROTA: I can imagine. And were there warning signs leading up to that moment?

LOVE: I was totally unaware of any warning signs. So, I wasn't looking for them. I didn't know any -- anything about relationship violence. And so we started the One Love Foundation because we felt it's necessary. That other people won't be in the position that myself and my daughter were in, not knowing a thing. And in hindsight, wishing that we had.

CAMEROTA: That things had been different for her.

LOVE: Yes.

CAMEROTA: So you want to raise awareness and you want to try to stop relationship violence particularly among young people. There's this group, 16-24-year-olds that, for some reason, college kids are particularly vulnerable to relationship violence. Why is that, Katie?

KATIE HOOD, CEO, ONE LOVE FOUNDATION: Well, young women, 16-24 are at greatest risk for being in a violent relationship. And frequently we think it's because they don't understand the warning signs, and neither do their friends.

So One Love is trying to create compelling, digital and technology- based tools that meet young adults where they are. Our goal is really to bring the information to them and empower them with this knowledge to be one for change to help their friend and their communities.

CAMEROTA: OK. So you're doing this with the new public service announcement that we want to show tonight. It's one minute long. And it's really powerful. Let's watch it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're friends with who?

Were you with him last night?

GRAPHIC: It only happens when he's drunk.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody help me!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's none of my business.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I speak I'll lose them both as friends.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One in three women are victims of relationship violence. And it's often ignored by those who could help, but don't. The One Love Foundation created a revolutionary app that makes it impossible to ignore relationship violence. Based on research undertaken at the Johns Hopkins University School of Nursing, this app helps victims' friends and family make an assessment and determine the threat. It's anonymous, free and can save lives.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Be one for change. Join One Love.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: It's a great PSA, Katie. Explain more about how it works. If people out there tonight need help, how can they use that?

HOOD: Right. So what we love about, see it, share it, shatter the silence is that it's very easy but, we hope, incredibly powerful. To participate, all you need to do is go to our website. Join OneLove.org. View the PSA. And then share it everywhere with your friends. We believe that information is powerful. And if we get it out there you might actually save a life.

CAMEROTA: And Sharon, I know that one of the things, the message you want to say, is that everybody says why don't they leave? Why don't they leave? And sometimes leaving can be dangerous, so you need to have a plan.

LOVE: Yes, definitely. I think in a perfect world, everybody would leave. But that's probably the most dangerous time of a relationship. And with our MyPlan app, you can take the time, make a plan, and make sure you're safe when you get out and prepared to be out.

CAMEROTA: That's so valuable. Thank you so much for sharing your personal story and for doing all of this. It's great to see both of you. And I'll tweet out the address to OneLoveFoundation. Thanks so much.

HOOD: Thank you.

LOVE: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: That's it for us tonight. We'll see you back here tomorrow night.

CAMEROTA: "AC 360" starts right now.