Return to Transcripts main page

At This Hour

FBI Director, Homeland Security Director Testify Before Congress; Obama to Speak on ISIS Plans Today; Bratton Addresses Terrorist Chatter on Social Media; Interview with John Browne; Rochester Man Recruiting for ISIS, Planning to Kill U.S. Troops

Aired September 17, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm John Berman.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: And I'm Michaela Pereira.

BERMAN: We begin with news happening on several fronts in the U.S. battle against ISIS. Topping that list at this hour, we expect to hear from President Obama. Right now, the president is huddled with his top military commanders at U.S. Central Command in Tampa along with representatives of nations willing to partner with the U.S. and the coalition against extremists in Iraq and Syria.

PEREIRA: Also @THISHOUR, the FBI director and Homeland Security secretary, they are both on Capitol Hill. They're testifying about terror threats to the U.S. homeland, including the danger posed by homegrown terrorists and reports that ISIS sympathizers may be inciting attacks on the Las Vegas Strip and on New York's Times Square.

New York's police commissioner, Bill Bratton, addressed the social media chatter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL BRATTON, POLICE COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK CITY: There were no credible specific threats to this city at this time based on our latest intelligence, but the reality of the emergence of the new potential threats out of particularly the Syrian conflict are something we cannot ignore.

That is the terrible new reality, that there are thousands of potential fighters over there who will exit that conflict at some point in time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Later today, Secretary of State John Kerry is due on Capitol Hill to discuss the Obama administration's response to ISIS.

Also today, the House is due to vote on the president's proposal to train and arm the so-called moderate rebels fighting against the Assad regime. But also the U.S. hopes fighting against ISIS in Syria.

And now it appears that ISIS has issued a response to the president's vow to degrade and destroy the terror group. A new video seems to indicate that ISIS militants would target and kill American ground troops should President Obama deploy them to Iraq or Syria.

PEREIRA: Coming soon. It's as though it's a Hollywood-produced trailer. Very, very eerie.

Joining us from Capitol Hill is Ohio Republican Congressman Mike Turner. He's a senior member of the House arms services committee.

Congressman, thank you so much for joining me today.

REP. MIKE TURNER (R), OHIO: Thank you for having me.

PEREIRA: So of course we know the president is set to speak later this hour, and of course there's some expectation that he will likely reiterate this vow of no boots on the ground.

However, yesterday the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Martin Dempsey, says he has not ruled out recommending U.S. ground forces to the president, a little bit of back-and-forth there.

I'm curious what you're looking to hear from the president today.

TURNER: Well, certainly you have contradictory messages coming out of the administration, General Dempsey making it very clear that his assessment could include a recommendation of ground troops.

There's significant questions on Capitol Hill as the president's proposal to arm Syrian rebels goes forward, both in terms of whether or not we can ascertain correctly who these people are, what risks there will be of arming them, but also the issue that General Keane testified about before the arms services committee here in the House today, which is how long this is going to take.

That really is the calculus that goes to ground troops, and the president's plan of doing limited air strikes and then working to arm Syrian rebel troops isn't going to be available tomorrow.

As this threat has emerged and the president's been slow to respond, the threat may evolve very quickly and require, as General Dempsey said, him making a recommendation to the president that more troops -- because there are troops on the ground in Iraq and the president's approved them -- that more troops go into Iraq.

BERMAN: Congressman, you noted the House will vote today on whether to provide funding to arm the so-called moderate Syrian rebels. How will you vote on this measure, sir?

TURNER: I'm going to support the president in this. I'm very concerned about his plan. I'm not certain that the president accurately has assessed the risk to our national security, and I believe there is one. There's an absolute direct threat. As the trailer you just mentioned today shows and the arrest in New York show, this is an absolute threat to the U.S. homeland.

I hope the president is listening to his advisors so that we don't just have these contradictory statements but that they are given everything they need to be able to destroy this threat as the president has indicated he's committed to do.

PEREIRA: You talk about the propaganda video that ISIS has put out. You talk about the social media chatter. We hear New York Commissioner -- Police Commissioner Bill Bratton talking about this chatter and the fact that there are targets here that they have picked up on U.S. soil, the Times Square area, we know the Las Vegas Strip.

I'm curious what you're thinking in terms of the direct threat to homeland and how it should affect our decision-making about the ISIS strategy.

TURNER: You know, the 9/11 Commission in chapter 12 of their report specifically said that if we view the threat coming from 9/11 as just Osama bin Laden or al Qaeda that we would miss the real security threat to our country, and I think that's what we're seeing evolving here today.

As the president believed and I think limited the involvement of fighting Islamic extremist to al Qaeda and Osama bin laden, we've seen now this growing threat. The president needs to read chapter 12 of the 9/11 Commission Report and I think certainly that will -- should dictate what our policy is, and that is this is a direct threat to the United States and we need to confront it.

PEREIRA: Congressman Mike Turner, thanks for joining us today @THISHOUR.

BERMAN: Yeah. The congressman said he will support the president's call to fund arming and training the so-called moderate Syrian rebels who are fighting the Assad regime and also ISIS.

I want to take you to the Senate floor right now. I believe West Virginia Democratic Senator Joe Manchin is speaking now. Senator Manchin opposes this funding. He opposes paying to train and arm the Syrian rebels. He's worried the weapons we give to them could end up used ultimately against U.S. troops.

Let's listen to what he says.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D), WEST VIRGINIA: ... our allies, and I am not confident that we know who our allies are.

And to illustrate that point, I refer my colleagues to press reports that moderate Syrian opposition forces sold American journalist Steven Sotloff to ISIS, who beheaded him and put the video on the Internet. Are those people our allies? Who are other allies in this fight?

As of today, we have only hints of military support from Arab countries who themselves face a greater threat from ISIS than any one of us.

Madam President, Syria's neighbors have the technical ability and the financial resources to support and train the Syrian opposition forces. If that is correct course of action that we should take, they have the wherewithal to do it.

In the 1991 Iraq War, we had commitments from our allies around the world but most importantly from the Arab community. We had a total buy-in. I know that Secretary of State Kerry has been working tirelessly to build a similar coalition and recruit support Iraq's neighbors, because it's their neighborhood and theirs to defend. And I hope it is a successful because as our intelligence community has said repeatedly, is could soon become a direct threat to the United States of America.

But I strongly believe that if our military arms and trains Syrian rebels, we will be involving ourselves in a ground conflict that we cannot resolve where potentially everyone involved is our enemy.

To my mind, the reasons not to arm Syrian rebels today are very clear. Point number one, first, the weapons we give to moderate opposition may not remain in their hands. If my colleagues have seen the videos of ISIS shipping United States Army Humvees and MRAPs out of Iraq that we gave to the Iraqi army, they will understand what I mean.

Number two, I've seen no evidence that the Syrian rebels we plan to train and arm will remain committed to American goals or our interests. The vast majority of national-level Syrian rebels groups are Islamists, none of whom are interested in allying with the United States.

BERMAN: You've been listen to West Virginia Democrat Joe Manchin, bringing up one of the issues central to so many critics of the administration plan.

There are people who say the pro-moderate Syrian rebels who are fighting the Assad regime and also potentially fighting ISIS that they're just simply not reliable. He doesn't want to provide funding to help them out. He says they can't be counted on.

PEREIRA: The biggest concern is that at some point any of that weaponry could end up in the hands of people that are fighting against our military men and women.

So many questions, so many concerns, again, you say Joe Manchin has been vocally opposed to this. We've been hearing his comments sort of saying their neighborhood is their battle for them to deal with.

BERMAN: Ahead for us @THISHOUR, the Minnesota Vikings, they reverse their reversal on what to do with Adrian Peterson. Now they're going to ban him from playing until the child-abuse case against him is resolved.

Why do they keep changing course here? And how is the NFL doing in terms of damage control right now?

PEREIRA: Scotland, the nation of Scotland may vote to part ways with the United Kingdom tomorrow.

What does this all mean? What does it mean for Britain and for its relationship with the United States? We'll explore it all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: @THISHOUR, the top officials from the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI, they are testifying before a House committee about terror threats around the globe.

BERMAN: FBI director James Comey expressed his concern about Westerners traveling to the Middle East to be schooled by terrorists and what could happen next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: I am very concerned about the going. I'm even more concerned about the coming. There will be a terrorist Diaspora out of those areas, especially Syria, that we all wake up everyday thinking and worrying about.

The second way in which the terrorism threat has changed has come with the way the Internet has changed all of our lives. It's no longer necessary to actually meet somebody in al Qaeda to get training and inspiration to conduct a terrorist attack here in the United States. Someone can do in the their pajamas in their basement.

These are the homegrown violent extremists we worry about, who can get all the poison they need and the training they need to kill Americans and in a way that's very hard for us to spot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Meanwhile, a man in upstate New York has been charged with supporting ISIS.

Plus, we're hearing from New York's police commissioner on his concerns about ISIS inciting an attack right here in New York City.

PEREIRA: We're going to cover both stories with our Jean Casarez and our Evan Perez. Both of you, thank you so much for joining us.

Let's listen first. Let's play some sound from Commissioner Bratton explaining why he is more concerned about ISIS than al Qaeda. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRATTON: Their ability to use social media to try and spread their recruitment efforts, to try and inspire, they have a number of magazines, including one that's called "Inspire" where they make it quite clear what they would liked adherents to do, and whether it's to give guidelines on how to create a bomb, potential locations to attack, this is a new world, if you will, or the evolving world of terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: So, Jean, not so much sounding the alarm but Bratton there saying that he's staying ahead of the threat. You can go online and figure out tips on how to build a bomb in your kitchen.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You've been able to do this that for years, right? And you're right. The NYPD is saying there are no specific credible threats at all to New York City.

But this blog -- and CNN cannot confirm exactly who is writing this bog, allegedly ISIS, allegedly ISIS supporters, but I think what's newsworthy here is that it's the very first time that there is "recruitment" -- and I put that in quotes -- for someone to stay in the United States, don't travel anywhere but make these bombs and find these noteworthy targets, such as Times Square, Las Vegas, and transit areas throughout the country.

BERMAN: We have seen this before, so in a sense it's not new. There was the Boston marathon bombing, a bomb made with a pressure cooker by people who lived in the Boston area.

CASAREZ: And that forum actually cites the Boston marathon to copy them, what they did and how they did it.

PEREIRA: And let's turn this situation in Rochester, New York. An ISIS supporter, a 30-year-old Yemeni born man who lives in the area of Rochester plotted to kill U.S. troops here on the ground, supporting people who are trying to travel to Syria to fight with ISIS, perhaps even raising money or providing funding. Tell us more about this man.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, he is a shop keeper in Rochester, his name is Mufid Elfgeeh and according to prosecutors, he was trying to recruit people go to Syria and join ISIS, he was very active on Twitter urging people to send money. Unbeknownst to him, two people he was talking to were working for the FBI as informants.

And the FBI has some recordings of things he was saying, for instance, last year he was discussing the mall attack in Kenya and he told this informant quote, me, myself, I'm thinking about doing something here, to be honest with you. I'm thinking about just go buy a big automatic gun from off the street or something and a lot of bullets and just put a vest on and whatever and just walk around and start shooting. Now he was talking about doing up to 20 shootings before perhaps going overseas to try to join ISIS, Michaela.

BERMAN: Even, you mentioned there were informants that were key in this case. How did they find him and how do they find other people like him?

PEREZ: Well, it was his tweets. These tweets that he was sending out which was urging people to send money so ISIS can buy weapons, that got the attention of the FBI and the FBI introduced these two undercover informants who were being paid by the FBI. One of them was getting paid $21,000 to work with this guy and talk to him. Another was getting paid $4,000, so that will be a part of this case. We know he's due in court today. His lawyer has said he's going to plead not guilty and we expect this is going to be probably a more difficult case than perhaps a lot of these other ones have gone.

PEREIRA: Inspire Magazine, you see these tweets, this new video that ISIS put out, a whole new realm and a whole new multimedia approach to terrorism. It's really horrific and frightening. Good to know our authorities are working to crack down on this as best they can. Evan, Jean, thanks so much.

BERMAN: Ahead for us @THISHOUR, Scotland votes on the issue of independence tomorrow. And if it decides to leave the United Kingdom, it's going to be a messy divorce, though they want joint custody of the Queen. What the heck is that about? When we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Tomorrow is a big day for the United Kingdom. Really kilt wearing people everywhere. After three centuries living together in British isle harmony, Scotland and England could be headed for a messy, ugly divorce. And even before voters have said yes or no to the possibility of an independent Scotland, the custody fight has begun over who gets what.

PEREIRA: British leaders are certainly not happy about it. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: I believe I speak for millions of people across England, Wales and northern Ireland and many in Scotland, too, who would be utterly heartbroken by the breakup of our United Kingdom. Utterly heart broken to wake up on Friday morning to the end of the country we love.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: British Prime Minister David Cameron. Also, to note, former President Bill Clinton speaking out against the separation saying unity is the answer. What is at the heart of this? Why do so many people in Scotland want a separate country? We have somebody we can ask about it. John Browne is former advisor to Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. Sir, thank you so much for joining us.

JOHN BROWNE, FORMER ADVISOR TO PRIME MINISTER MARGARET THATCHER: Very good to be here, Michaela. Thank you.

PEREIRA: Maybe you could explain to us, give us a little insight. Three hundred and seven year history, it could go away tomorrow if Scotland votes to go its own way. Help us understand this.

BROWNE: Well, basically, nobody likes to be under anyone else, other countries. And, of course, propaganda feeds against the English in Scotland because at the beginning of the relationship it wasn't all together great. We had soldiers in Scotland and so on and those legends live on even in movies like Braveheart.

But for 300 years it's been a very good relationship, particularly for the Scot's because Britain wanted Scotland in the union for defense reasons and therefore has been prepared to pour huge amounts of money into Scotland. Even today Scottish social welfare payments are almost 30 percent larger than they are for the English in England. And Britain has put a lot of money in n there, so much so that when Boswell was writing he said words to the effect that the finest sight to a Scotsman is the high road to England.

And I'm half Scot myself, my mother was a Douglas. So I feel that it's a disaster, as you say, a divorce is messy, this one will be costly, particularly for Scotland. The politicians have told the Scot's well, we'll have huge oil revenues an so one, but oil revenues fell by 27 percent last year. And so the oil wells are drying up and so that will go. So -- and Scotland has huge Social Security and deficit compared to England in percentage of GDP so their taxes will have to go up which will drive businesses and people south. Already friends of mine in Scotland have moved their funds to banks in London and so that will continue.

But I personally think that the canny Scot's like my mother when they come to put their shaky hands on the ballot paper will mark an x in the no position. And it will be a no vote but only just. It will be marginal, And that's what's done the huge damage, because it's made people think that Scotland sets a precedent for Democratic peaceful divorce from your country. In other words cessation. People in Spain, Belgium, Italy, Germany, Ukraine, Hungary and even Texicans in America will think, my gosh, Scotland why didn't we follow the Scottish suit and seek cessation, just at the time when the western world faces huge challenges from Russia, China, and so on. I think it's a disastrous step to have even taken in the beginning and I think Cameron's words were unbelievably untruthful.

BERMAN: I will note, this whole independence thing worked out okay for us. Let's just stipulate that right now. And I do have --

BROWNE: But the big fight.

BERMAN: But it's been okay. Americans seem to be doing fairly well right here. You are, sir, in the United States, both your Scottish half and your English half right now. I will note you're in Florida. I'm struck by the fact that the Scot's want independence yet they want to keep the Queen. And to me nothing says freedom like a monarchy. Explain this to me.

BROWNE: Well, the Queen is a wonderful, wonderful person. I personally think she'll go down in history as Elizabeth the Great. And, of course, they want her because who else are they going to put in as head of state? The Queen has enormous constitutional powers and who would you put them? Would you put them in Salmon's hands? Would you put them in Cameron's hands? Here's a man, Cameron, you heard him on the broadcast just now talking about he'd be almost weeping if Scotland left. He has designed it. He denied the British people a vote on going into Europe but gave it to Scotland because it means Scotland will become a region of the European Union. Just what the European Union wants. He's doing the dirty work for the European union.

BERMAN: Mr. Browne, great to have you with us. I will note, you can have independence without a Queen. It's worked out okay for us. But we do --

BROWNE: Yes, but you've got to invite us to the tea party next time.

BERMAN: You're always invited, sir, you make great tea. Thanks so much for being with us.

PEREIRA: I will have you know my father has a kilt, by the way.

BERMAN: I'm in favor of kilts.

PEREIRA: You're more concerned about the fate of whiskey if Scotland were to go --

BERMAN: I like Irish whiskey. I am off that island all together.

PEREIRA: We don't want to bring that up. Sore subject. Ahead @THISHOUR, President Obama is at the U.S. central command, centcom, we'll bring you his comments live on his operation to defeat ISIS.

BERMAN: Plus, Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson is told he can't play, then he can play, now he can't play again. So what's the deal? And who's running this show? Has the NFL hurt itself in terms of damage control? When we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)