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Dr. Drew

I Killed My Little Boy; Sheilla Shea on Parents Who Harm Their Kids

Aired September 18, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, this woman killed her own child. She was mentally ill.

SHEILLA SHEA, KILLED HER YOUNG SON: I thought that if I killed the kids and then killed myself, that there wouldn`t be anybody to hurt them.

PINSKY: Now just weeks out of treatment, she`s speaking out nine years after she stabbed her little boy to death.

S. SHEA: It is unbearable for me at times.

PINSKY: It`s a rare, personal look that may help us better understand mental illness in America.

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Welcome. My co-host is Samantha Schacher.

Now, many of the stories we deal with here every night involved psychiatric disorders and mental health. There`s a lot of judgment, a lot of shame, a

lot of stigma, very little understanding why, for instance, sometimes these disorders manifest themselves violently. People don`t seem to get that

this is not a choice, it`s not a volition, it`s a disorder, brain state, a manifestation of an illness.

This woman, Sheila Shea, nine years ago today, she had a psychiatric decomposition, stabbed her son, her 6-year-old, to death. It is

heartbreaking. She was declared insane at the time, ordered to a psychiatric hospital for years.

I spoke with her exclusive just days after her release. Here`s what she tells me about why she killed her son.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

S. SHEA: I was in an abusive relationship. It just triggered all this paranoia. I knew that people were there and were trying to harm us. My

abuser tried to set me on fire.

I had a mental breakdown. I thought people were after me. I got very paranoid.

They had me diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. I started taking medication, took it for six months and quit taking it. I started getting

paranoid again.

PINSKY: So, tell me what happened.

S. SHEA: My kids -- two of my kids were asleep in the bedroom. My daughter was asleep on the couch because she just had surgery and my other

son was watching TV in the living room. I stayed up all night long and --

PINSKY: Paranoid?

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: You were worried somebody was coming in?

S. SHEA: Yes. And I -- at about 7:30 in the morning, I tried to call my sister and on her cell phone, and the cell phone did this really wonky

thing. And then, it gave me a busy signal on a cell phone.

I was like, they`re -- they`ve got my sister, they`ve got my mom, they`re killing them. And I ran in the kitchen and I got a knife and was going to

kill myself because my abuser had told me that I was safe as long as I stayed with him, you know? I thought at first I was like if I kill myself,

then they won`t have no reason to come.

And I was going down the hallway toward the bathroom, I was like, my kids, you know, they`re going to rape my kids. They`re going to torture my kids.

They`re going to mutilate my kids.

And I thought that if I killed my kids and then killed myself, that there wouldn`t be anybody to hurt them. And I thought that at least I would be

merciful, that I wouldn`t torture or torment them or anything like that. And I went in the bedroom and I sat on the edge of the bed and I put my

hand on Patrick`s chest and he opened his eyes and I don`t remember anything after that until my oldest son body slammed me and he was

screaming and he was like "mom, mom". I was like, "They`re coming, you know, they`re coming, they`re coming, they`re coming."

And he wrestled the knife away from me and I fell on the floor and I got up and I ran in the kitchen and I grabbed another knife and I stabbed myself

three times in the chest. And the knife kept bending, which I was screaming that the knife -- I was like screaming that it wouldn`t kill me.

And then my son came and grabbed me from behind and had me in a body lock and he walked me outside and I sat down on the curb. All these police

showed up and my in-laws lived across the street. They came and they took Patrick across the street and the fire department and the ambulance showed

up over there.

And they were getting things -- it was just really confusing. All I could do is just sit there and ask God to forgive me. When they put me in

handcuffs, my two youngest children came up to me and all I could tell them is I swore to God that I loved them. And that I didn`t mean it and that`s

all I could say is that I swore to God that I loved them.

And I lived my whole life for my kids. And if somebody had told me, you know, Sheilla, you`re going to go insane and kill one of your kids, I would

have told them they didn`t know what they were talking about, because it is unbearable for me at times.

PINSKY: How do you live with that?

S. SHEA: It`s really hard. Some days, I would rather be the woman screaming in the suicide tank pulling out my hair and some days I don`t

want to look in the mirror. Some days I don`t want to get out of bed.

PINSKY: Have you been the woman in the suicide tank?

S. SHEA: Yes. I had huge patches of hair missing. Banging my head against the wall, I screamed and screamed and screamed. I probably didn`t

sleep for almost three weeks because I couldn`t. Every time I would hey down, I would see my son`s eyes open up. It just -- it`s more than I could

stand.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh!

PINSKY: Yes, it`s almost, are you going to stand hearing the story.

SCHACHER: It`s heart wrenching, Dr. Drew. Her son, her. I mean, this essentially could happen to anybody. What really caught my mind or just by

her saying that she stopped taking the medication, then I later read that it was because she thought she had cured herself, like a cold. It just

speaks to how ignorant we are about mental illness.

PINSKY: Yes. And it`s hard to get people to keep taking their medicine who have schizophrenia. It`s one of the big challenges with it. But now,

she had to learn the hard way.

SCHACHER: My gosh.

PINSKY: All right. Next up, why did Sheilla say she`s the luckiest woman in the world? You`re not going to believe that as she will tell us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. SHEA: I stabbed myself three times in the chest and when I was in jail I tried to hang myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. SHEA: I know how the world views people like me. You know, it`s not like I haven`t already been called those things. For me, it`s like

anything anybody says to me is not as bad as what I`ve already said to myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam.

A mom stabbed her 6-year-old son to death during a severe psychiatric decomposition nine years ago today.

SCHACHER: Wow.

PINSKY: She spent years in a psychiatric facility, was released just days before that interview, which was just last week.

Now back to the exclusive interview with Sheilla Shea.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

S. SHEA: I think I`m the luckiest woman in the world, because I did this horrendous thing. I changed the lives of so many people. And my kids are

like, love you, mom. You know, you`re -- you`re a great mom.

They`ll tell me, you know, mom, you busted your butt for us. And I`m like, I did what I was supposed to do. I took care of my kids. I lived my life

for my kids.

PINSKY: People are watching this are going to wonder, what about Patrick?

S. SHEA: I -- it hurts me to know that he`s never going to go to high school. He`s never going to have his first kiss.

PINSKY: Because of his mom.

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: His mom`s mental illness.

S. SHEA: Yes. And it`s like, I say it all the time, you know, I would sell my soul if I could take it back. I can`t change it. I can`t

rearrange it. I would change it in a split second if I could. But I can`t. And it`s like, I don`t mean like oh, I can`t.

It`s like, I can go through my day and I can be happy. I can be sad. I can be angry. I can show the whole range of emotions in a day. But when I

lay down at night, every night, you know, I`m right there in that moment. I wish I could change it. I wish I could take it back. I would do

anything if I could.

PINSKY: Do you share these thoughts with your kids?

S. SHEA: They know how I feel about it.

PINSKY: Because after all, if somebody -- if you were taken away or put away, they would have a big loss.

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: It`s not fair to them.

S. SHEA: No. I tried to commit suicide twice, and --

PINSKY: How close did it get?

S. SHEA: I stabbed myself three times in the chest, and when I was in jail, I tried to hang myself. I asked for the lethal injection when I

first met my lawyer. I said, I want to die. I want you to give me the lethal injection. She said. no, we`re going to go with this NGRI thing.

And I said, please, I just want to die.

I spent 17 months I do believe in the county jail and out of the 17 months I spent in county jail, I spent 14 of those months I spent by myself locked

in a box.

PINSKY: Solitary confinement?

S. SHEA: Yes. I was in solitary confinement for 26 days when I tried to hang myself. The rest of the time, I spent it on in the suicide tank on

the medical ward.

PINSKY: How did you try to hang yourself? You appear to empty --

S. SHEA: Oh, I had a sheet. I had a sheet and I ripped it up. I had a big long white bar and a woman was standing at a door and they called a

bunch of guards, the lady kept saying, she`s not going to do it, she can`t do it, she can`t do it. And I flipped the sheet over the bar and dropped

to my knees and was hang thing when they come running in.

You know, I told somebody, I want to live a good life. I don`t mean like riches and cars. I want to live a wholesome good life, because I feel like

I carry Patrick`s life with me now too. You know, if I were to run amuck, then what would that say to my son`s life?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHACHER: This is beyond, beyond tragic. Dr. Drew, how long was she in the mental facility?

PINSKY: Four and a half years, in the medical ward in three months, and a mental health residential facility for something like four years out after

that, three years after that.

Sam, that last statement she made to me was the more telling. People want to condemn somebody like this, she carries that life she took with her. I

get confused by that myself. Let`s remind ourselves, she wanted to die. Everybody wants to condemn her, she asked for the lethal injection.

SCHACHER: And she tried to commit suicide twice. When she was in solitary confine, was she treated for her mental illness at all?

PINSKY: You know, I don`t think so. She must have had something, but there`s a jail ward for mental illness. I don`t think she was on that.

And the real treatment came later. She got a lot of very good treatment.

Next up, Sam, I talk to Sheilla`s daughter. You could imagine she would never forgive her mother for killing their little brother. But putting it

to her and her siblings, through the trauma of killing her little brother in front of them. And for me, this was the more difficult part of the

interview, the scene that the daughter told me was phenomenal. And her courage, and the way she understands these things, you`ve got to see this.

SCHACHER: OK. Wow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then he asked me for help. And he just kind of went a little limp.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. SHEA: I thought that if I killed my kids and then killed myself, that there wouldn`t be anybody to hurt them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That is that delusional thinking, Sam. People don`t get the understanding that there`s psychiatric disorders, addiction being one of

them, where thinking is the problem. The thoughts you have drive behaviors that are pathological. The average person is not used to thinking that

way.

SCHACHER: That`s why you always say treat above the neck as you would below the neck.

PINSKY: There you go. It`s an illness to the brain.

Now, she has three other children were in the house when she had this psychiatric break and stabbed this 6-year-old. Her oldest daughter, it`s

breathtaking, her oldest daughter held little Patrick in her arms as he died. Can you imagine this being the young sister of a 6-year-old and

seeing this?

And now she joins me. Gina is her name. And she joined me and the mom in this interview. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNA SHEA, MOTHER KILLED HER LITTLE BROTHER: I remember I woke up early that morning and she was sitting on the couch across from me, and I

remember her just staring into space and I asked if she was OK. She said that no matter what, I love you. I was like, I love you too, are you OK?

She`s like, yeah, I`m fine, you can go back to sleep.

So, I kind just kind of rolled over and went back to sleep. And then, the next thing I woke up to a lot of screaming and a lot of chaos.

PINSKY: What did you think after you sort of became aware of what had happened?

J. SHEA: I saw that my mom had a knife in her hand. And this was blood on the knife. My older brother Clifford had happened to be there, and he was

wrestling with her and the whole time he just kept yelling at me and telling me to call 911. And I was like, OK, what do I say? Like I was

still wasn`t really sure of what had happened.

So, he just kept yelling "call 911", and then eventually, he told me that mom stabbed Patrick. At that moment, I was just like, OK, this is a lot

bigger than I -- I never in a million years thought anything like that would happen. I took the phone from Will and he was on the phone with 911.

I gave them our address and I told them everything. He had thrown back the covers and Patrick was laying there in the bed. And there was blood

everywhere at that point.

And I remember just telling 911 what was going on and where we were at. And Will grabbed Patrick by the wrist, both wrists and set him across the

bed. I was like, you can`t do that, you have to lay him flat. And so, he laid him on the floor and I remember 911 that I needed to go because I had

to take care of him.

And at that point, I knew they had our address, and they`re on the way.

So I hung up and I remember holding Patrick and asking him to talk to he and say his name and asked him if he was OK. And the first thing he said

to me was, "Tell mom I love her." At that point, it was just like, wow. I didn`t know what to say. So I just kept trying to get him to talk to me.

And then he asked me for help. And he just kind of went a little limp. And I walked into the kitchen and my mom was in the fetal position and my

brother was attempting to hold her hands and she was trying to stab herself repetitively.

I remember just looking at her hands and she had multiple knives in her hands. They took us to the police station and my mom was down the hall and

we could hear her screaming that they were coming to get her. And they were coming to get us and she was worried. I remember her like asking

about us and asking if everything was OK.

And she kept trying to pull her hair out. I mean, it was something I had never seen, so it was really -- real sad.

PINSKY: When did you get back with your mom?

J. SHEA: She wrote me a letter, and it was really hard to read at first.

PINSKY: Why?

J. SHEA: Because she apologized and it was very -- in my heart, I knew this is -- my mom worked three jobs and always provided for us. So I knew

that she would never do anything to hurt us unless it was really serious. And so, not that makes it OK, but I knew that it was so much more than just

what everyone had said. And so --

PINSKY: What had everyone said?

J. SHEA: All the bad things that people say whenever mother hurts her child.

PINSKY: That`s one of the things I want to get at. How we made people understand that difference. Sometimes it is just horrible.

J. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: Was anybody cruel to you?

S. SHEA: A couple of people said some things that I was like, did you really just say that?

PINSKY: Like what?

S. SHEA: Somebody asked me how come I killed Patrick and not William? Yes.

PINSKY: Wow.

S. SHEA: And I was like, did you really just say that? You know, it`s not like I was choosing. I was in that state and I was going to kill

everybody. Did it matter who I --

PINSKY: Got to first?

S. SHEA: Yes. I get agitated and angry when people tell me, you know, you have a new life now. I would take a beaten the rest of my life if I could

have my old life back. I`m never going to forgive myself, because -- I`m just not.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHACHER: I don`t know how you got through that interview, Dr. Drew. But a question for you, because Sheila stopped taking her medication before.

So, what`s t keep her from doing that again?

PINSKY: Yes, there was a big component of her treatments. She`s many years in psychiatric hospital and in there, she learned how the medicines

work, how the medicines make all those paranoid thoughts go away, for people that want to call it an excuse. Why do they vanish when you put

people on the medication, by the way?

And then checklists she has to go through to make sure she may be taking her medication, to check her thinking, to understand what`s happening or

thinking. She has a whole series of sort of behavioral checklists and she now relies heavily on her family, too, who are very deeply educated.

SCHACHER: They`re remarkable.

PINSKY: She is amazing. She`s the only one I met. It just -- I just -- the way she told the story was breathtaking. I just phenomenally brave

young girl.

Next, how do Sheilla`s surviving children feel about their mom today? She will tell us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. SHEA: When they put me in the handcuffs, my two youngest children came up to me and all I could tell them was that I swore to God that I loved

them. And, that I did not mean it and that is all I could say is that I swore to God that I loved them.

And I lived my whole life for my kids, and if somebody had told me, you know, Sheilla, you are going to go insane and you are going to kill one of

your kids, I would have told them they did not know what they were talking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher. Now, Sam, does this give you a better understanding of mental illness after hearing Sheilla tell her

story?

SCHACHER: Yes. You know, Dr. Drew, it is still hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that somebody could essentially murder their children

and then now reflect back on it as a completely different person.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: I mean she does not even seem like that same person.

PINSKY: But, she does.

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: She is in completely different brain state now. And, she has had a lot of treatments. So, let us get back to my interview when Sheilla

further explains how her thinking process was so impaired. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Your kids now, we have Clifford is 28. Gina, who is 21. Williams, 19.

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: Are you close with them all now?

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: How did they react initially?

S. SHEA: Clifford screamed and screamed at me that he hated me.

PINSKY: Right there at that --

S. SHEA: That morning.

PINSKY: -- that morning.

S. SHEA: Yes. And, he came -- I was not allowed to have visitors for like two or three weeks and he came to visit me and I just balled. I am like I

thought you hated me. And, he is like, "No, momma, I do not hate you." They have been my rocks.

PINSKY: All the way since the event?

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: They did not abandon you or push away on their time on their own?

S. SHEA: I could not see Gina and William for a while, because they were not of age, but --

PINSKY: They always wanted back in your life?

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: I do not care what language people use, whether they say you were possessed or whatever it was. You were in a state that made you do

horrible things.

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: How did people understand you are not also a horrible person?

S. SHEA: Well, I will give you an example. I was going to group therapy and knew people there that were really nice to me. You know, they were

like, "Oh, you are funny. You have a sense of humour. You are nice." And, I am a very nice person and I am a very funny person."

And, then, an article came out in the paper and they read it. And, then they were very standoffish towards me. And, I am like, you cannot see that

I am a good person, but I had this horrible thing happen. You know, if you cannot see past what I did, then you cannot see past it.

But if you have compassion and you have empathy, then you can see that, you know, that I was mentally ill, you know? And, for me, it is hard sometimes

because my children tell me all the time, "Mom, that was not you. You were not in your right mind." It is like, "No, I was not in my right mind.

But, ultimately it was still me and I take responsibility for what I did." But no, I was not in my right mind when I did it.

PINSKY: How long were you hospitalized for?

S. SHEA: Four and a half years.

PINSKY: You were one of the relatively few to get out, right?

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: What did you see in there?

S. SHEA: I saw a lot of mentally ill people. I saw people that manipulated the system because they did not want to go to prison. I saw a

lot of people --

PINSKY: Those are the people that people point out when they want to blame you for your actions.

S. SHEA: Yes. Yes.

PINSKY: Right?

SHEAD: And, you know, the thing is that you have to be competent to get NGRI. And, if you are not competent and cannot aid in your defense, then

you can never get NGRI. And, it is like, I have met a lot of people that got the NGRI plea that had killed somebody and it is like, everybody has a

story.

And, you know, people that are truly insane, when they commit an act of violence -- you know, when you come back to yourself, you know, it is like

these people have a certain sadness to them. You know, because --

PINSKY: Forever.

S. SHEA: Forever. Because you forever have to live with what you did. To die or the thought of dying, you know, did not bother me at all.

PINSKY: Probably sounded like a relief.

S. SHEA: Very much so.

PINSKY: Are there days when you still feel that way?

S. SHEA: No. I talked to my father, who is the greatest man in the world. He would stand in line for two or three hours at the county jail every

Saturday to visit with me for 20 minutes. For 17 months, my dad came to visit me every Saturday.

And, he had come to visit me and quite literally told me, he is like, "Sheilla, you do not have your other children, right now; but they still

need their mom. So knock it off." And, I was like, "OK."

PINSKY: Do you have a mission?

S. SHEA: I want to change just one person`s mind about what mental illness really is. You know, if one person out there says that, you know, "Hey,

you know, I have a mental illness. I need to take responsibility for being mentally ill."

If one person out there has a loved one that has a mental illness, you know, maybe they will look into it further and get educated on it and not

lumped. You know, I have been lumped with the mentally retarded. I am not mentally retarded.

PINSKY: Who does that?

S. SHEA: A lot of people that you talk to that are uneducated about mental illness seem to think that if you have a mental illness that means that you

are also mentally retarded.

PINSKY: They are saying, you are somehow cognitively impaired.

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: And, you understand that the big disorder was the thinking.

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: The thinking is the problem. I still hear a little bit of it.

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: That you cannot trust your thinking, which is a common feature in mental illness.

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: We think of thinking as something that we use to make good judgments.

S. SHEA: Yes.

PINSKY: It leads you to bad judgments.

S. SHEA: Yes, it does. And, it is like I have a piece of paper that a counsellor gave me one time. And, I do not have paranoid thoughts now, you

know? Every once in a while, something will strike me as funny, and I will go, woohoo.

But, it is like, if I have a thought that I know is paranoid, I get out this little sheet of paper and it has ten questions on there. And, it is

percentages, you know, like, what do you think is the percent that this is really happening, that this thought is happening?

PINSKY: Yes.

S. SHEA: And, used to when I had a paranoid thought, I get out that piece of paper and I ask myself those questions. You know, the last question is

what is the probability of this really happening?

PINSKY: Yes.

S. SHEA: So, I do that. You know, if I have a paranoid thought.

PINSKY: We have to force people to take medicine? What do we do?

S. SHEA: I think you cannot force somebody to take medicine if they do not want to. They are not going to. You know, they are going to cheek it or

stick it under their tongue or do whatever they need to do. You know, they have stabilization clinics, you know?

And, when I went into the stabilization clinic, they did an observation and they involuntarily kept me. And, I think that, you know, if you have a

family member and they are showing big symptoms and stuff, you know, I think that somebody should be able to be involuntarily committed for 72

hours.

PINSKY: Yes.

S. SHEA: You know? --

PINSKY: Sometimes that does not do very much, though.

S. SHEA: I guess sometimes it does not. But, you know, maybe it would help that view.

PINSKY: Are you grateful?

S. SHEA: I am grateful for my attorney fighting for me, because, you know, you do -- when you are in a position like this, you do want people to

become educated and you do want them to be aware of things.

PINSKY: Yes.

S. SHEA: And, I am grateful that my children and my family still love me. And, it is like, what quality of life am I going to have from now on? I am

not sure, but it is like, I look for just to find peace inside of me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Next, we will continue this discussion about psychiatric illness in America and what we need to do about treating people.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. SHEA: I know how the world views people like me, you know? And, it is not like I have not already been called those things. And, it is like, for

me, it is like anything anybody says to me is not as bad as whatever I have said to myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: You just watched my exclusive interview with Sheilla Shea. This is the woman who killed her own son in the midst of a psychiatric break.

The Behavior Bureau has been watching this interview for the first time along with you, all and myself.

And, I have not seen the interview since I done it. I want to get their thoughts. Let us bring back Vanessa, Leeann, and Judy. So, the question I

will ask -- let me just get your overall impression. Let us go around the horn here. Vanessa, what are your thoughts?

VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Like a lot of people, I was initially very skeptical. I have trouble believing that there are these moments

where women or men can physically kill their children. I just could not believe it. I did not want to believe it. I did not understand the mental

illness part of it.

After watching that, I have to tweet about it. And, so many people on Twitter felt the same way. They just did not buy it. They called B.S.

But, after seeing that, I really understand how it can be that moment. And, I am just worried now that she is out. Will things in her real life

now take her back there?

PINSKY: No. Unlikely. It is illegitimate concern. Judy has the same concern. And, I have talked to you before the show. I tell her about,

that is what all those years of treatment were about is getting her structured in such a way that this is highly -- They do not let everybody

out, by the way.

She was clearly somebody who was responding to these treatments. They watch her in a residential in a mediate zone to see how she transitioned

into the world. And, she seemed safe. Judy, do think -- I noticed when you were watching. I was watching you as you watch the tape.

And, Judy, the empathy on your face is something I am accustomed to seeing in caretakers and it is different when you are used to going in with this

people. Is that what is missing on the outside world, the ability to just get involved and be empathized with these illnesses?

JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: That is right, Dr. Drew. There is so much misunderstanding about mental illness. And, what you saw on my

face was obviously a genuine emotion as I am listening to this woman`s story. And, understanding just how deep mental illness can effect

everybody that we know. It could be your father. It could be your mother. It could be your close friend.

And, as I was watching this tape, I was thinking about all of the extensive treatment that she must have gone through to even be able to piece together

the story. Just even talking to her, you can tell that she has gotten over what you had described as the thought disorder phase of her schizophrenia,

where her insight, her problem solving, her reality and her perception checking is all impaired. And, that is the only way that she was able to

do this to her son in this particular manner.

PINSKY: And, you know what? I am actually getting angry when I think about this. Did somebody have to kill somebody to be able to get

psychiatric care in this country?

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: Nobody -- If any four of you got ill today, you get five days of treatment in a psychiatric hospital. But, she killed somebody, she got

what she needed, which was seven years of treatment. Leeann, what are your thoughts? I am upset about this.

LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I mean -- if you are watching me, I literally was crying the whole time, because that one

picture of her holding her little baby. That is about as old as my son, Cane, is right now. And, I just lost it. And, you know, you know me. I

am one of those like -- people are evil, you know? Mental illness is just a crutch half the time.

And, you know, I watched this woman and I saw the agony in her face and I feel just like Vanessa. I changed my mind and to look at how her own

daughter who had to hold -- it is so emotional to even think that so many people were affected by that, you know, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yes.

TWEEDEN: It is so sad. And, listening to Sheilla speak. I want to ask you this, and I had this question. You know, she was really abused by her

boyfriend or her husband.

PINSKY: Yes.

TWEEDEN: Do you think that such abuse causes mental illness or that she had it before?

PINSKY: She had it before for sure. But abuse can precipitate all sorts of phenomena at different stages of life. Judy, any thoughts?

HO: That is right. I think that she had an underlying illness and a capacity to develop psychotic disorder.

PINSKY: Right.

HO: And, that she had extreme stressors. She had to care for four children in the midst of this extremely abusive relationship. And, what I

just want to say too, Dr. Drew, is that the extensive treatment that she was prescribed to have, been following through with very carefully, it

sounded like it had multiple components. We know that cognitive behavioural therapy is one of the most effective ways to treat

schizophrenia.

PINSKY: Lots of it.

HO: It sounds like she had that with the behavioural checklist.

PINSKY: Yes. She did. Yes. She did.

HO: Thought challenging.

PINSKY: Yes.

HO: Re-attributing her hallucinations to other internal sources.

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

HO: It sounds like she went through all of that diligently and she wants to make a better life for herself and for Patrick.

PINSKY: And, yet, Vanessa, there are those people who would just say I do not care. I do not care about any of that. Give her the lethal injection

that she wanted. Everything is BS after that. She took a life. Eye for an eye. Hammurabi`s law prevails.

BARNETT: I mean I just saw the tweets on the screen. They are still saying, send her back to jail. And, I do not know if they do not get it.

I do not know if they do not maybe have the compassion. Maybe they did not watch the entire interview. I just want to say, after seeing that, I am

forever changed.

SCHACHER: Yes.

BARNETT: And, I just know in my personal life, but I believe God does not make me any mistakes. And, I just believe Patrick`s death will not be in

vain. I just prayed that people --

PINSKY: Well, I hope you are right.

BARNETT: -- have really learned from this story. Because, I am for sure forever changed.

PINSKY: Well, Sam, mission accomplished.

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: Mission accomplished. One opinion changed there.

(LAUGHING)

SCHACHER: Well, absolutely. I mean this woman did not kill her child, mental illness killed her child. And, it is so important for us to have

this dialogue because of the stigma that is obviously still associated with mental illness.

PINSKY: And, I would say, anyone who has mental illness, pay attention and take your damn meds.

SCHACHER: Please.

PINSKY: Follow through with your doctor. Treatment works. Treatment works. I cannot say that enough.

TWEEDEN: Right. And, have people surrounding you that will help you.

PINSKY: You said it takes a village -- you are absolutely right about that. Family, relationships, it is important. Next up, Sheilla herself

gave me some thoughts about the dad who is accused in the death of his son in a hot car. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. SHEA: You cannot see that I am a good person, but I had this horrible thing happen. If you have compassion and you have empathy, then you can

see that, you know, that I was mentally ill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa, Leeann and Judy, who spent some time understanding why this kind of thing happens. Separating mental illness

from the person sometimes in certain situations. I asked Sheilla if she had any insight about the parents, like the dad who left his son in a hot

car until he died. Any insights to those sort of cases and here what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. SHEA: I can feel for the man, because it is just devastating, you know? And, then it becomes more devastating when it is by your hand. Then you

find out that you took a life. And, it is like if you have a shred of humanity in you, you know, and you take a life, it is just indescribable

how it makes you feel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Leeann, again, you are moved by this.

TWEEDEN: You know, the difference that I see there between Sheilla and the dad that left his son in the car, I feel like it was premeditated. Him and

the wife both researched leaving kids or animals in the car.

PINSKY: OK. All right. Maybe, that is a different thing. Yes.

TWEEDEN: So, it is different. It was not like they just had a psychotic break and at that moment he killed his child.

PINSKY: Yes. Let us take a look to what she said about the ocean mom, the mom that drove her van into the ocean. Remember that woman?

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. SHEA: The lady that drove her children into the ocean was looking for a safe place. I was looking for a safe place. You know, when you are

mentally ill, something triggers and you focus in one thought, that one ideal. And, if you just get to that safe place, if you just do this,

everybody will be safe. If I just do that, everybody will be safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And, Judy, that one thought is always distorted and disturbed.

HO: That one thought is always distorted and disturbed, Dr. Drew. And, when a lot of mothers who end up killing their children, this is exactly

what she is saying here. They are actually trying to protect their children, looking for a safe place. And, I am so glad that you featured

this interview, because it just show that there really are two kinds of killers.

PINSKY: Yes.

HO: There is the mentally ill kind that you can rehabilitate, and then there are those who really just lost their minds. They are psychopaths,

whatever you want to call them.

PINSKY: They are evils. Let us call them evil. Let us call -- Those are evil, right, Sam?

SCHACHER: Yes. Absolutely. Lock those people up. But, it is hard sometimes, Dr. Drew, to wrap your head around it and understand it.

PINSKY: Because, they are not used to seeing it.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: I am going to show more of it. You are just not used to it. Judy, I think that is the deal. We hide these things behind the walls of

the psychiatric hospital. We have shame and stigma. Listen, we need to describe it more clearly.

And, Vanessa, I want to thank you tonight, because you brought it home for me. You really did. I expected you to be a tough nut to crack. And, it

meant a lot to me that you were able to listen to this and take it and make meaning from it. It gives me faith that other people had the same

experience. And, I really want to thank you.

BARNETT: I thank you for opening my eyes. Honestly, I truly do.

PINSKY: And, then putting a nice bow around it by making meaning out of this. This child need not have died in vain if we all learn from this and

do something with this information that improves the lives for all of us.

TWEEDEN: Look out for each other.

PINSKY: Agreed. Forensic Files begins next.

END