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Obama U.N. Speech; Lone Wolf Terrorists; Syria Refugees; Kerry Talks ISIS

Aired September 24, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good afternoon. I'm Anderson Cooper, at the United Nations, where President Obama is facing the world, defending America's new war and trying to rally allies to take on what he calls the cancer of violent extremism. In about one hour from now, the president shares a crucial meeting of the U.N. Security Council after a pivotal address where he shared blame and also asked for help in the fight against ISIS, a group he calls a network of death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We collectively have not invested adequately in the public health capacity of developing countries. Too often we have failed to enforce international norms when it's inconvenient to do so. And we have not confronted forcefully enough the intolerance, sectarianism and hopelessness that feeds violent extremism in too many parts of the globe.

Today I ask the world to join in this effort. Those who have joined ISIL should leave the battlefield while they can. Those who continue to fight for a hateful cause will find they are increasingly alone. For we will not succumb to threats, and we will demonstrate that the future belongs to those who build, not those who destroy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, as the president spoke, his military commanders assessed the damage of overnight air strikes. U.S. and coalition warplanes pounded new targets, one in eastern Syria, just across the Iraqi border, and four more in Iraq. We are told vehicles, weapons, and jihadi fighting positions were hit.

Today, ISIS supporters hit back with the release of another horrific video. This time a different U.S. ally, a Frenchman, Herve Gourdel, beheaded at the hands of ISIS militants in Algeria. Or militants who say they pledge allegiance to ISIS. The release of this video sure to add urgency as the president prepares to chair a meeting of the U.N. Security Council. That's at 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time. We'll, of course, bring that to you live.

Joining me now is Jim Sciutto, chief national security correspondent.

What do you make, a, of the president's speech to the General Assembly? Clearly he's trying to rally as much support as possible. JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No question, a

rally, a call to arms. A really ambitious, I think, Anderson, call to arms, not just against ISIS, although that was a central part of the speech, Islamic extremism in general, but against all forces that he described as challenging the international order. He talked about Russia and Ukraine. He even made a veiled reference to China and its actions in Asia and saying that for peace the world has to act together to challenge these groups otherwise we're going to pay for it in effect.

But it was -- the other thing that was interesting about it is that this is a president who some have criticized for being reluctant to lead. You have these phrases like, don't do stupid stuff, as the driving force of his foreign policy, or lead from behind, during the air strikes on Libya. You heard a very different man today. Someone who was calling the world to action, but also reveling, it seemed, in the responsibility that the U.S. has to lead the world in this way. He didn't say it's going to do it alone. He said, we're much better when we act together. But he did say that America was willing to lead this, that America feels that it can sort of pick up this mantle to some degree. And it's a very different message that what we've heard from this president.

COOPER: And, I mean, it's a very different message that the message that he ran on.

SCIUTTO: Absolutely.

COOPER: That it's a very different presidency than he expected.

SCIUTTO: Absolutely. The man -- the president who took troops out of Iraq has now - has already taken the U.S. back to war in Iraq some six or eight weeks ago when the air campaign started there, but also a president who was very reluctant to act militarily in Syria just a year ago, thinking about it, acting against Assad after the use of chemical weapons and then pulling back, taking the U.S. and the world, the five Arab partners, to war in Syria. Three wars underway right now.

COOPER: Also, I mean it really bears repeating, how much the actions taken by the United States, particularly in Iraq right now but also in Syria, really depend on the ability of the Iraqis to stand up and reform their government, reform their military, and actually stand up and fight. I mean the whole thing in Iraq really rides on the Iraqi military.

SCIUTTO: No question. It was -- and the Iraqi political process. The president just met with the new Iraqi president -- prime minister, I should say, al-Abadi, and part of the message in that meeting we're told was that he said that we can help you, we can be a strong partner, but we can't do this for you. And I think that holds both on the military side because you need Iraqi ground forces to stand up. We're six weeks into this campaign and Iraqi and Kurdish forces, as formidable as the Kurds are, particularly with American and western arms, have not taken back a single square foot of territory. COOPER: And the Iraqi prime minister, with Christiane Amanpour

yesterday, was saying, we need more from the United States. We need more active air strikes. We essentially need the U.S. to be an air force for our military. This is a military of some 250,000 personnel. The idea that they are not able to take back any territory from ISIS is extraordinary.

SCIUTTO: Yes. No question. And the U.S. military, those advisers that were sent in to assess the capabilities of the Iraqi military against ISIS, they've made a judgment that only half of the Iraqi brigades are up to the fight.

COOPER: It's incredible.

SCIUTTO: Half of that (ph). And you and I, we've talked about this, how many billions of dollars -

COOPER: Right.

SCIUTTO: Blood and treasure that the U.S. invested in that military. And just when you compare then Iraq and Syria. So in Iraq you do have a ground force. You have the Iraqis.

COOPER: Right.

SCIUTTO: Say if it's 250,000, you've got more than 100,000 that are capable. You have 120,000 Kurdish fighters who are very capable. It's at least 200,000. A quarter of a million troops on the ground there and yet even with airpower ISIS still holding territory.

In Syria, you have nothing along those lines.

COOPER: Right.

SCIUTTO: They're talking about training 5,000 fighters over the next 12 months. These are the moderate rebels.

COOPER: Twelve months at the earliest, 18 months as Kirby also said possible.

SCIUTTO: Absolutely. Yes. When are they going to remove them from Syria? That's the question.

COOPER: Yes. All right, Jim Sciutto. We'll continue talking to Jim throughout the next two hours that we are broadcasting from here.

As we said, we're going to bring you at the top of the next hour when the president's chairing the National Security Council and bring that to you live.

The U.S. air strikes meant to try to bring down ISIS, or at least degrade them at this point, and al Qaeda in Syria, may cause their followers to rise up elsewhere. Homeland Secured and the FBI have just issued a bulletin telling local law enforcement to be on the lookout for lone wolf type attacks, lone wolf type terrorists. Quoting the bulletin, quote, "we face an increasing challenge in detecting terrorist plots underway by individuals or small groups acting quickly and independently or with only tenuous ties to foreign handlers. Preoperational indicators are likely to be difficult to detect."

And Australian authorities may have already come across a lone actor. Australian police had to -- an 18-year-old terror suspect in custody. They say he went after two officers with a knife, forcing one to shoot him. Police say they had been investigating the suspect recently, suspending his passport for security reasons.

Joining me now is Robert McFadden, former special agent in charge of NCIS and now senior vice president of Soufan Group.

Robert, thanks for being with us.

How do you stop these kind of lone wolf actors, especially when they may have no formal ties, they may not be on anybody's radar, and the kind of activities we're talking about could be very quick. I mean, trying to behead somebody on a street. Trying to shoot people in a movie theater or whatever it may be.

ROBERT MCFADDEN, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, SOUFAN GROUP: Yes, along with the randomness of these types of acts. But, look, for some context here in the current situation we're in, you have to recognize first that you really have a confluence of events. And after a major U.S. military action really unprecedented with the type of regional allied support, you would expect there would be an increase in the situational awareness and the possibility of some acts.

But for some more context, though, realize that ISIS encouraging lone wolf or small group attacks is nothing new. In fact, it's taking a page out of al Qaeda's playbook. For example, when Major Nadal Hasan did the murders in Ft. Hood, Texas, al Qaeda essentially - central actually praised that and encouraged more of these types of acts. So really what it speaks to is the extraordinary challenges of intelligence security to find out about these individuals. But you know what it really comes down to is the actions at the local level, whether it's the police force, like here in Manhattan, the NYPD with the joint terrorism task force, or an increased readiness, and also getting the word out to the public about the campaign that, look, if it doesn't look right, report it.

COOPER: I mean I think back to the attack on a British soldier on the streets in the United Kingdom about -- within the past year. You know, a shocking attack that took place very quickly. A video was made of it that was posted online. Something like that is exactly what authorities are talking about. I mean -- you also mentioned the Ft. Hood shooter. Even the attacks in Mumbai where, you know, a few handful of terrorists with AK-47s invading hotels were really able to bring Mumbai to a screeching halt for several days.

MCFADDEN: Right. Well, actually, the incidents you refer to, particularly the first two, Ft. Hood, even the Tsarnaev brothers and what happened in England, it speaks to that part of the bulletin that the command and control really is usually not there. Almost all the time it's not there. So that ingredient makes it so much more tough to combat these kind of things and root that out. But something to also consider, that whether it's the activity that's

going on right now in the near and Middle East or other motivations let's say outside of this kind of religious extremism, to hardcore right wing extremism, lone actors tend to be motivated by a churning that's going inside and may sometimes be whipped into action due to events. But a lone wolf, a singleton, tends to act at his or her own time across a spectrum of different causes.

COOPER: So you're saying really it's something that's going on in them. They may say it's linked up with ISIS. They may say it's out of allegiance to something that's happening in the news, but it's really more about something that's going on inside their own head.

MCFADDEN: Precisely. Behavioral specialists cite this over and over again, that typically the individual is earnestly self-recruited, whether it's through social media, cassette tapes and other types of things, and then latches up with a cause, combined with other things typically going on in that person's life. Whether it's, you know, some kind of an emotional event, a range of different things that can affect behavior tends to be the combination, more so than galvanizing any kind of mass movement say related to what ISIS is doing in the Middle East.

COOPER: All the more reason for family members, for people to keep their eyes open and if they have questions or see something that doesn't look right to report it to police.

Robert McFadden, appreciate your time. Thank you.

Just ahead, eyewitnesses telling CNN about the U.S. air strikes and how one felt like an earthquake. You'll hear from them in the hour ahead.

Plus, John Kerry says Baghdad could have fallen, his words exactly, had the U.S. not taken action. How close is ISIS getting to Iraq's capital?

This is CNN's special coverage live from the United Nations.

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COOPER: The wave of Syrian refugees fleeing the country for Turkey has skyrocketed in the aftermath of the anti-ISIS airstrikes. Many had already escaped as ISIS fighters moved in before the strikes. But after Tuesday's U.S. led attack, eyewitnesses describe to CNN what it was like not seeing ISIS actually in the streets and being free to walk around for the very first time. CNN's senior international correspondent Arwa Damon is near the Turkish-Syrian border. He joins me now.

What's it like there today?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've had throughout the entire day that same flood of refugees coming across, most of them from Syria's predominantly Kurdish north because the Kurdish fighting force has been struggling to keep ISIS at bay. A lot of these people having to walk for days and then wait on the Turkish side of the border. It's been raining. We've had sand storms. Conditions really unbearable, Anderson. They're amongst the many that are saying they want to see the U.S. and its allies do more to terminate ISIS' rule.

COOPER: I'm curious to know how people there are reacting to the air strikes. And I know you talked to somebody who actually says they witnessed some of the - them.

DAMON: Yes, one young man from Raqqa (ph) says that it felt like an earthquake. And in the wake of them, he said, ISIS fighters cleared out of the streets and all of a sudden people could go out. It felt as if things were normal to a certain degree. But, he said, that did not last for long. By nightfall, the fighters were back in lesser numbers setting up checkpoints, randomly detaining individuals. And the concern that he was raising and that was being raised by the residents of Raqqa is that ISIS, he says, some 15 to 20 days ago cleared out a lot of the buildings they were occupying and began living in residential homes, embedding themselves amongst the civilian population. So, a sense of finally maybe something is happening to rid us of ISIS, but also a lot of fear of the possible collateral damage that could be caused by more air strikes, Anderson.

COOPER: Do we have a sense of exactly how many people have crossed the border just in the last couple days? Because over the weekend they were talking about more than 100,000.

DAMON: Well, the U.N. is putting that number at over 150,000. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights is putting that up above 200,000 coming across since Friday in that huge flow of refugees that we saw.

The concern that we've also been hearing voiced by some Syrians living in provinces like Aleppo and Idlib (ph) that were also hit in those air strikes is this potential for more civilian casualties because we're hearing various different accounts of civilians that were killed in those air strikes that weren't necessarily even targeting ISIS, but other groups like the Nusra Front that the U.S. calls a terrorist organization, although that's not necessarily how the Syrians themselves view it.

But there are these rising concerns that these air strikes could cause another flow of refugees, not just across the border into Turkey, but potentially into Iraq and Syria's other neighboring countries that are already collapsing under the burden that the refugee population is placing on them.

COOPER: All right, Arwa Damon, thanks very much. Arwa along the border.

Baghdad could have fallen and Iraq would be in the hands of ISIS. That is what Secretary of State John Kerry said if the president hadn't ordered strikes in Iraq last month. It's an extraordinary statement because you remember when ISIS started to make advances, many people in the U.S. were saying, well, Baghdad itself is safe, there's no way it's going to fall. We'll hear from Secretary Kerry ahead. Plus, reject the cancer of violent extremism. President Obama making that direct appeal to young men and women across the Muslim world. More on that ahead.

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COOPER: John Kerry, the secretary of state, said today that U.S. strikes on Iraq may have diverted disaster already. In an exclusive interview, Kerry tells CNN that absent the strikes the president launched last month, ISIS might have seized the capital of Baghdad, commandeered the oil fields and captured other major cities. Here's Secretary Kerry.

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JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: They were moving toward Erbil. They were moving towards Baghdad. Baghdad could well have fallen. Erbil could have fallen. They could have control of all of the oil fields.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So, according to Kerry, if not for what the president has already done, Iraq could essentially be in the hands of ISIS right now. An extraordinary statement. Colonel Rick Francona is with us. He's a CNN military analyst, former military attache to Syria.

Colonel, I just want to backtrack quickly. June 10th, ISIS surprised many in the world by seizing Mosul, Iraq's second largest city. Two months later, August 8th, ISIS was nearing Erbil in the north when the U.S. launched its air campaign. Had the U.S. not started bombing, do you believe ISIS could have actually seized Baghdad, as Kerry suggested today? Because at the time, there were few people in the U.S. saying that there was any way that ISIS would actually be able to seize Baghdad.

COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, I'm really surprised that he said that. It is an extraordinary statement. The conventional wisdom at the time, and we talked about this when it was going on, ISIS had rolled down the Euphrates and the Tigris Valleys and they looked like they were going toward Baghdad. They'd even gone southwest of Baghdad in an area that's been the focus of some of the initial air strikes and it looked like they were trying to cut off the -- Baghdad from some of the more heavily populated Shia areas.

But the wisdom was that the Shia militias in Baghdad and the remnants of the Iraqi army would be there to defend Baghdad. So I'm really surprised that the secretary would say that. And, you know, that puts a whole different light on the U.S. actions earlier on.

COOPER: Yes, I mean, if it's true, I mean it's very possible the secretary is maybe using this to try to justify strikes. But, I mean, let's be real, Baghdad is a majority Shia city, you know, based on what happened there, largely through the militias years ago, it's now majority Shia. The idea that Baghdad itself would have fallen, I mean the Iraqi military has not stood up to fight, but in those areas it's largely in Sunni areas, the idea that they wouldn't defend the capital, if true, says more about how the sorry state of the Iraqi military than anyone previously thought, frankly.

FRANCONA: Exactly. And if you looked at the position of the Iraqi military, now the assessment of the Iraqi military is about half of them were capable of fighting. So that's about 80,000 to 90,000 troops. And most of them are centered around Baghdad. Then you had the Shia militias, the Iranian sponsored militias, Iranian trained. You also had some Iranian special forces in there. I'm really surprised that the secretary would go so far to say that Baghdad might have fallen because none of us thought that at the time.

COOPER: Yes, I mean, I was there. Nobody was saying that at the time. Everyone's like, look, there's no way Baghdad itself is going to fall. So, again, whether the secretary is being accurate or not or whether he's using that to somehow justify that, we leave that open to our viewers.

Let's fast forward now to the strikes in Syria that started Tuesday. The biggest concentration appears to be around Abu Kamal. That's a big Syrian city on a major road into Iraq. Is the idea there to cut off ISIS in Syria from ISIS in Iraq?

FRANCONA: Yes, I think they're trying to split the two, Anderson. It -- we know that ISIS has been able to move things up and down those roads quite efficiently and the Iraqis have kind of blunted with the American airpower, they've kind of blunted the momentum. And if ISIS wants to recapture that momentum, they're going to move things down that road. They need to reposition some of those Humvees and other equipment that they captured up in Mosul and get it down to where they're fighting.

But it looks like they're trying to interdict that by hitting all those areas around Abu Kamal. That's all I can figure out there because there's really not much else out there to hit.

COOPER: Right. Colonel Rick Francona, appreciate you being on. Thanks very much.

Stopping the corruption of young minds, President Obama calls on the world today and Muslim communities to reject the ideology of al Qaeda and ISIS. We'll have more on that ahead.

Plus, former President Bill Clinton says ISIS was trying to sucker us into putting troops on the ground in Iraq. His interview straight ahead.

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