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Don Lemon Tonight
New ISIS Threat?; Report: Women Feel ISIS is Family Friendly; NYC Officials Slam Anti-Islam Transit Ads; LeBron James Weighs in on Hot-Button Issues
Aired September 25, 2014 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Great to see you, Don. I'm Alisyn.
Today, U.S. officials were blindsided by Iraq's new prime minister warning of an imminent attack by ISIS on subway systems in New York and Paris. It got particularly awkward when federal and New York officials declared it's not true.
LEMON: And that's not all. A stark warning from the FBI director. He is not confident that airstrikes against the Khorasan group have disrupted its plans to attack the U.S., although we don't know much more than that.
CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, forget worrying about terrorism. Statistics find that you are much more likely to be shot by a police officer in this country than killed in a terrorist attack. Yet another unarmed black man was shot this month, this time in South Carolina by a state trooper, but this time, the incident was caught on dashboard video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you -- why did you shoot me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you dove head first back into your car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Plus, we have an exclusive. LeBron James opens up to CNN, his first in-depth interview since resigning with the Cavaliers. The basketball great talks about returning to Cleveland, off-season weight loss and what happened in Ferguson, Missouri.
CAMEROTA: Good. I will look forward to that.
LEMON: We got a lot to get to, and we're going to begin though with that warning to a threat of the U.S. transit systems.
Pamela Brown is CNN's justice correspondent. And she joins us now with the very latest. So, Pamela, the supposed plot against the subway, U.S. officials are telling people not to worry, but where did this come from?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, today, the Iraqi prime minister made comments to journalists on the sidelines of a gathering of world leaders at the U.N. General Assembly and said he was told of a plot by ISIS against U.S. and French subways and when he was asked if that attack was imminent, he apparently said yes.
And, of course, after that, it didn't take long for U.S. officials to respond. They came out and they said they're unaware of any plot. In fact, I was in a closed-door session with other reporters with FBI Director James Comey earlier today right after the prime minister made that statement and he said he hadn't heard anything about it. That would be something that would be front and center on his radar.
CAMEROTA: And so people are worried though about an attack on U.S. soil and, as you said, you spoke with the director of the FBI today. What is he -- did he go on to give any more details about trying to figure out where all of this came from?
BROWN: He didn't. He really had nothing more to add on that subject. He just said he hadn't heard anything about it.
What he did say, which is interesting, is that the group Khorasan, the group of al Qaeda operatives, he believes it still exists and until he has concrete evidence to show him otherwise, he believes they are still plotting against the West. And intelligence officials told CNN that that group of al Qaeda terrorists had acquired materials, they were in an advanced stage of plotting before the strikes.
And sources say that one of the plots involved bringing concealed bombs onto planes. Comey said today that as of now, the threat posture remains the same and the group remains at the top of the his list of concerns he awaits the official strike assessment from the Pentagon -- Don.
LEMON: OK.
Let's talk about what else he said to you, because he's saying now they know the identity of the killer in those ISIS beheading videos. How did they do it and why aren't they naming him?
BROWN: Yes, that's a good question.
He said it was a combination of factors. Actually, officials told me it was a combination of factors, that they were able to trace his British accent to London through voice analysis. And from there, they picked apart metadata from the videos. And they also relied heavily on human sources to help them pinpoint the identity out of a pool of people they were looking at.
And they aren't naming him because they're still investigating. They're building a case and tracking this person's network of contacts. Essentially, it doesn't hold any value to identify this person before that process is complete -- Don. LEMON: Pamela Brown in Washington, Pamela, thank you so much.
CAMEROTA: All right, Don, let's talk more about this.
We're joined by James Phillips, senior research fellow for Middle East affairs at the Heritage Foundation, Juliette Kayyem, CNN national security analyst, and Ed Davis, former police commissioner in Boston.
Great to have all of you.
Jim, let me start with you. What do you think this new Iraqi prime minister was trying to accomplish by suggesting that he had some sort of intelligence that no one else had about this New York City subway plot?
JAMES PHILLIPS, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: I think he may have been trying to underscore the value that he adds to the West's efforts to attack the terrorists in neighboring Syria.
He may have tried to inflate the intelligence that he or his intelligence ministry has, and, secondly, he may not be used to dealing with the Western press. He's probably used to spoon-feeding Iraqi press and is not often challenged on these kinds of claims, but it's highly irregular to publicly make these kind of charges without having very strong backup information.
CAMEROTA: That's a great point. I'm sure he is not used to dealing with the U.S. press. We take those sort of hints very seriously and we want to know what the source of it source.
Juliette, this forced the New York City mayor to come out and reassure New Yorkers tonight. Listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL DE BLASIO (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: And I have a simple message for all New Yorkers. There is no immediate credible threat to our subway system. I say that with confidence.
People should go about their business as they normally would.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: So, Juliette, can we be confident tonight here in New York?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, I think absolutely, confident to the extent that we are at a heightened security level, of course, because we're in the middle of military action against two terrorists organizations.
But the Iraqi assessment is essentially someone hearing what they heard from someone else. And it just happens to be the prime minister who is repeating it. But this is why raw intelligence should never be said by a prime minister or politicians.
We don't know how this intelligence was acquired. Was it through detention or an interrogation? It's not been validated. I think this story should end where it begins, probably in Iraq and has no impact, at least on the security assessment right now.
LEMON: Ed Davis, regardless of any of this, law enforcement really has to take all of this seriously. And every day, when I get on the subway trains, I see people stopping, they're checking bags, they're looking through bags and they're talking to people. Does that really help to prevent a terrorist attack? What are officers looking for when they go through that?
ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, it certainly does. Increased visibility, officers stepping on to the subway -- I was on the number one train in Manhattan just two days ago and two NYPD officers came on.
If someone is looking to do something and they see that kind of visibility, then they're going to think twice about it and I think that that's exactly what John Miller and Bill Bratton are doing in New York.
And considering what happened yesterday on the floor of the United Nations, the president made very clear we're at war with terrorists and as a result of that, we have to understand that we're on the other side of that war.
CAMEROTA: Juliette, I want to talk about the beheading videos that we have seen coming out of ISIS. Today, the FBI says they have identified the man holding the knife in those videos. We can't be sure that he's the killer because you don't see the actual gruesome moment of beheading.
Why aren't they saying more about who he is?
KAYYEM: Well, because this isn't a manhunt right now.
Essentially, the benefit of knowing who it is, is that now the investigation intelligence sort of forms concentric circles around him, where did he go to school, who does he know, where did he worship, so that we can find out more intelligence and answer questions like how are these men being recruited, how are they getting there, questions that are important so that you can stop the flow of Westerners to ISIS.
But there's this little old phrase in intelligence circles called black propaganda, which is you try to disrupt the enemy by saying all sorts of things about what you know. I think it's very smart for the administration to say we know who it is, so that others who might think that they wouldn't be identified get a little bit nervous that now they might be identified.
So there's a little bit of propaganda in this as well.
LEMON: So, when they identify him, they identify him, and that moves them further along in the investigation.
But let's get back here to the threat at home. This can go to Jim or Juliette. But, bottom line, Americans are really fearful about -- and they're getting mixed messages about the reality a threat in their city or town.
What should be officials be saying to people?
First to Jim, and then -- quickly and then Juliette.
PHILLIPS: I think in the short run, the chief threat is coming from probably self-radicalized lone wolf.
I doubt that ISIS has had a chance to develop a network inside our country, although al Qaeda core group may have a much more of a head start on them. But in the short run, I would be nervous about lone wolves who are watching these kind of videos and take action themselves.
LEMON: That seems to be the whole thing about lone wolves. We spoke a lot about that last night and then again. Do you agree with that, Juliette?
KAYYEM: Absolutely.
Look, the government has to do a lot of things right now. It's not just about terrorism all the time. And so there are going to be other priorities.
And so I am -- I am -- if there is any person in government you don't want to not prioritize, sorry for the double negatives, terrorism, it's the head of the FBI. He needs to be solely focused on this threat until he is told definitively that the threat no longer exists.
I understand Comey's point, which is until he is told to stand down, it is his job to singularly focus on the homeland threat.
CAMEROTA: You know, another thing the FBI director said today is that's he is not convinced that the airstrikes in Syria have actually disrupted any plot by Khorasan. That is not a good message.
DAVIS: No.
And that particular statement is much more important than anything the Iraqi prime minister had to say today. I think that as citizens of the United States, listening to the FBI director, the concerns he has and being vigilant and cautious is the right thing to do right now.
LEMON: All right, thank you, everyone.
Just ahead, how effective, as we have been talking about, have the airstrikes been against ISIS and other terrorist groups in Iraq and Syria? Two of our military experts are going to join us with some answers on that.
CAMEROTA: Yes, including how long are they going to last?
Plus, CNN's exclusive interview with basketball great LeBron James, who opens up in his first in-depth interview since resigning with the Cavaliers. He talks about going back to Cleveland, racism in the NBA and what happened in Ferguson, Missouri.
LEMON: Interesting.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Tonight is the fourth night of airstrikes against ISIS targets in Syria and Iraq. How and when will we know if our strategy is even working?
We are joined by lieutenant Colonel James Reese, former special forces commander, now CEO of TigerSwan, and Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, CNN military analyst and former U.S. military attache in Syria.
Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.
Colonel Francona, I want to start with you. I want you to tell me your impressions of what the FBI director said today, when he said he is not confident at all that the plotting by the Khorasan group has been disrupted at all by the airstrikes. Do you agree?
LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It's a fair statement.
We don't know exactly what happened on the ground there yet. We can only do so much of an assessment of the bomb damage assessment, given the fact that we will be using either satellite imagery or drone imagery. It's going to be very difficult to tell exactly who was killed unless the groups themselves announce that. Some groups do. But I don't think we will see that out of the Khorasan group. So, it's a fair statement.
CAMEROTA: OK. So, then, Colonel Reese, how do we know if the airstrikes are working?
JAMES REESE, CEO, TIGERSWAN: I'm sorry? Say again?
CAMEROTA: How do we know then if the airstrikes are working?
REESE: Well, I think what you have right now is we know in the safe haven that the disruption is happening of ISIS.
But the Khorasan piece, they dropped a lot of munitions on that. The BDA will continue. The ISR, or the Predators will be over the top of this thing really starting to look at what is going on, on the ground.
And what we talked about the other night, what is happening now is what we will call the unblinking eye, that a persistent intelligence that is going on and watching everything that is happening on the ground while at the same time continue to do persistent bombing and targeting on the ground.
LEMON: Where do special forces come into this equation? Because there are supposed to be special forces involved. Any other advisers, what are there doing on the ground, Colonel Reese?
REESE: Right now, just -- the president has said there is no boots on the ground. We all know there is about 1,700 special operations, special operations support individuals in Baghdad, up in Irbil, throughout Iraq that are with the brigades and divisions of the Iraqi security forces advising them, helping them with their intelligence.
We have special forces throughout the Levant area, into Jordan, into Saudi Arabia's -- up in Turkey. Again, we are advising, we're helping people understand what our intelligence can be. And then we're also helping them with their intelligence networks to train their people who are on the ground to identify, find, fix, and finish some of these aspects of intelligence we are looking for to really start bringing back our BDA.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: There's supposed to be a second part of this campaign. And it's supposed to be the Iraqi forces and Peshmerga taking back territory. When will we start to see action on that front if at all, Rick Francona?
FRANCONA: Well, Don, that is an excellent question. I think we had a little bit of a setback today looking at what happened just west of Fallujah.
The second piece of this, as you say, is after the initial start of the air campaign, which is having an effect -- we have been able to blunt the momentum of ISIS in Iraq. If you saw just a few weeks ago, they were marching down those valleys, the Tigris Valley, Euphrates Valley right towards Baghdad.
So, the air -- the airstrikes have been able to stop that momentum. Then ideally -- air can't take back territory, but it stops it in place. And then you have the ground forces rally and then move in to take the land back. We're not seeing that.
And the Iraqi army is having a real problem. And today we saw one of their outposts, a battalion level outpost being completely overrun by ISIS. There is no leadership in the Iraqi army right now. Of the 26 brigades that are supposed to be effective, they're not showing any leadership. There's no minister of defense. There's no minister of the interior.
So, basically, you have got an army without any leadership at all. And people that are paying the price are the soldiers in the trenches. So where is that second piece? It is not active yet. How long can the air hold these guys off? To be seen.
CAMEROTA: Colonel Reese, the reports of what happened at that army outpost sound really chilling. The survivors, and there aren't many, describe, they basically thought that help was coming because they were surrounded by ISIS. So they thought when they saw this convoy of Humvees rolling up, they were relieved. And they thought it was help. Then they found out that it was suicide bombers, and scores of soldiers were killed. It just sounds horrible.
LEMON: Actually, we had a survivor of that. Let's listen to it before you respond to that. There's a survivor. Let's listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I engaged them, fired and killed four of them until a sniper shot me. From 2:30 a.m. until 10:00 a.m., no one came to help us. I had been calling the commander since 2:00 a.m. at night for support, but no one responded and they sent us nothing. I stayed injured for nine hours waiting for them until they airlifted me here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Gosh, how do we avoid something like this happening, Colonel Reese?
REESE: Well, you know, unfortunately, that's what is going to happen right now. That's why we need this bombing campaign, because the bombing campaign is doing delaying action until we can get the Iraqis to start supporting themselves.
What you have right now is -- and these are terms that the American -- these are small FOBs, Iraqi FOBs, outposts. They have a 200-man element, an Iraqi battalion that are at these problems. The problem is, they're not interconnected. They don't have supporting fires for each other. They don't have any logistics, they don't have much communications between them.
You get 200 young brave men out there who want to defend their country. They want to defend themselves. What happens is, ISIS is smart enough off to isolate that FOB. They start to engage them in a fight. And until the Iraqis run out of ammunition, they run out of food, they have no quick reaction force to come help them. They have some of the Iraqi air force that can help them or if the U.S. or the coalition bombers can get in.
There's really no one who can call for fire. Now you have got troops in contact. It is a mess.
FRANCONA: And, Don, this is exactly what we saw as they came down the Euphrates, this exact same tactic. It was very effective then. And it's very effective now. At some point, the Iraqi army has the to take back the territory. We don't see any indication that they're standing up yet.
LEMON: Yes, can they do that, though, that's the question, without further engagement or further help from the U.S. or from a coalition?
FRANCONA: That's the problem. I think Jim will jump in here because this will bet special forces guys that have to go out there and replicate the Iraqi command structure that has melted away.
The problem with that is, that is the definition of troops -- boots on the ground.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: Right. General, we have to leave it there. Colonel Reese, Colonel Francona, thank you.
How can Western women be attracted to ISIS? We will tell you why some of them consider this terror group family-friendly. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: Another developing story. Police in London arrested nine men today in an anti-terrorism sweep. All are suspected of membership in a banned terror group. News reports say that one of those taken into custody is a radical British cleric who appeared on CNN just a few weeks ago with "RELIABLE SOURCES" anchor Brian Stelter. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: You said you would pose no threat to the U.K., and yet wouldn't you agree that you convert people to a radical form of Islam?
ANJEM CHOUDARY, MUSLIM PREACHER: You know, there is nothing -- quote -- "radical" or "moderate" form of Islam. A woman is either pregnant or not pregnant. If you abide by Islam, you will follow what is in the Koran and in the traditions of the prophet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Let's talk more now about radicalism in the West with Mia Bloom. Mia Bloom is author of "Bombshell" and professor of security studies at University of Massachusetts Lowell. Mubin Shaikh is a former jihadist and the co-author of "Undercover Jihadi." And Daveed Gartenstein-Ross is a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
All right, so let's talk about this, Daveed.
This radical Islamist preacher, his name is Anjem Choudary, was among those arrested in London. For years, he's been under the scrutiny of British security forces. Why did it take so long to arrest him?
DAVEED GARTENSTEIN-ROSS, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: It's unclear. There's a couple theories that one could look at, though.
One of them is that the British wanted to very carefully build a case to make sure that when they prosecuted him, that they would successfully convict him. A second theory is a kind of flypaper theory, that people who were being radicalized and people who had succumbed to a radical form and perhaps posed a threat would congregate around him.
He was a known quantity, obviously very visible. As you said, he was on CNN. And so they could really monitor his connections and thus monitor some of the extremist networks in the U.K.
LEMON: He is very clear about his message and he's very passionate about it. And the question is, Mubin, as someone who has really extensive knowledge of this, do clerics like Choudary radicalize regular Muslims into extremism?
MUBIN SHAIKH, FORMER JIHADIST: Yes, first of all, he is not a cleric.
He has no traditional Islamic training at all. Secondly, I know I speak on behalf of Britain Muslims when I say that we are extremely delighted the fact that he has been arrested finally. And to answer your question, yes, hate speakers like him, are responsible for radicalization of Muslim youth, absolutely.
CAMEROTA: Mia, I want to talk about women and why Western women might be attracted to ISIS.
We have a fascinating film that CNN acquired of women living in Raqqa under ISIS and having an argument with their family back at home. I believe that this was a French woman. She is speaking French about how she loves it there. And she doesn't want to go back home. Maybe we can play a little clip of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I don't want to come back, because I feel good here. It's not a question of coming back or not. If I want, I can come back. I just don't want to come back because I feel good here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Mia, there was another really insightful piece. It was in the Associated Press reported to day about how some women believe that ISIS offers, it's sort family-friendly because it takes the children out of the culture of sex and drugs and alcohol and so somehow Sharia feels like structure and feels more safe.
Is that what is going on here?
MIA BLOOM, UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL: That's part of the story.
There was a story that just came out I think yesterday about a woman from Turkey who left with her 3-year-old son and went to live in Syria and she said precisely that. She wanted to take her 3-year-old out of the culture of secularism, out of a culture of sex and drugs, and bring him up properly in the caliphate.
And that's also consistent with the ex-punk rocker Sally Jones, a British woman who left and took her 10-year-old son also to go live in Raqqa in Syria.
CAMEROTA: But so what is it? What is at the heart of this? What is a appealing about it, Mia?
BLOOM: They seem to think that the caliphate is offering them a utopian opportunity to live in a society as Muslims, where they will be unmolested, they won't be mistreated as Muslims, but also the kids will not have the kind of influences that we have in Western society.
Both of them have mentioned they're worried about their kids being influenced by homosexuals.
CAMEROTA: And, Mubin, I see you nodding your head. That makes sense to you?
Mubin, can you hear me?
SHAIKH: Yes. Yes. Sorry about that. No, Mia is...
CAMEROTA: I see you nodding your head. Does that make sense to you? Can you hear me?
SHAIKH: Yes, yes, sorry.
CAMEROTA: I saw you nodding your head, did that make sense?
SHAIKH: Yes, Mia is absolutely right about that utopian society, where Muslims will be unmolested. Because you're dealing with a grievance-based ideology of where Muslims are oppressed, Muslims are being persecuted, whether it's in Muslim lands or non-Muslim lands.
So this fits their utopian fantasy of it's like a pop-up tent. You know, they think if we just establish a caliphate, we'll all live happily ever after.
LEMON: And I think it's fascinating to hear from one of these women. That same woman in Raqqah is reacting to in her family, it -- to her family back home apparently getting upset with her. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Stop it. It doesn't help me if you're scared or if you cry. Do you hear me? I'm telling you. There's no point to crying or being scared. What you see on TV is wrong. Do you understand? They exaggerate everything on TV. They amplify everything. Everything, everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You know, it's reminiscent of families who are trying to get their children in the U.S. out of cults. Is there anything that family members can say that is convincing to their relatives who have been radicalized to get through to them -- Daveed?
GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: That's a great question. It's extraordinarily hard when somebody is actually in a situation like that, when someone's actually in a place like Raqqah or in the Taliban's Afghanistan. Usually the family is at a great disadvantage.
There is actually one very famous cell phone video that was taken, though. It was of a young man of Tunisian origin, who had gone to fight in Syria. And as he was flying through Turkey, his family had actually tracked him down in the airport. And his family surrounded him. His sister and his mother. They were crying. They hugged him and actually dissuaded him from going over to fight as a foreign fighter. That's one example in which there is a family intervention, but it was in person. And really personalized, humanized the situation.
I think that, for the phone call in Raqqah, it's much, much harder for the family to in any way get through.
LEMON: But probably -- but probably families, quite frankly, don't have the resources or even the know-how to go to a foreign country off to intercept their loved one. That takes a lot of effort. And I think most people would be afraid to do that. Am I wrong, Mia?
BLOOM: No, I think you're right. But we actually have looked at CVE efforts, countering violent extremism. The role of mothers is crucial. Really the mother whose can, either engage and de- radicalization or prevention or insulate the kids from radical ideologies and we really don't understand the best ways to exploit mothers in this was.
LEMON: Why is it the mothers? Why is it mothers?
BLOOM: It's something about the relationship between the mothers and the sons that doesn't necessarily necessarily play out between the sons and their fathers.
And I think it also has to do with the reason why terrorist groups always separate the operative from their families, especially the mothers so that they don't change their minds at the last minute if, let's say for instance, they're a suicide bomber. And this we've seen across a number of organizations.
LEMON: Interesting.
CAMEROTA; Fascinating. Mubin, Daveed, Mia, thanks so much for the insight into that.
You can just imagine how, how, helpless the families feel. Their loved one has left. And they're so different now. It's almost, you know, as though they've been brainwashed.
LEMON: I think there's something to that mother/son thing. That probably, and she says that it needs to be exploited in a way to try to figure out exactly how to stop some of these people from doing that.
Coming up, we get the background on an expanding anti-terror campaign overseas, shocking new advertisements that some say are anti-Muslim are set to appear all over New York City. Buses and subways are going to have. We'll have a look at that right after this very quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: Big controversy to tell you about, the debut this week of what many call anti-Muslim ads on New York City buses and subways is stirring outrage with people saying that the ads promote hate. But the woman behind the ads claim that they tell the truth, that the media and the U.S. government often ignore. CNN's Rosa Flores has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It takes a lot to turn heads in New York City. But on a day when commuters are dealing with word of a potential ISIS terror plot, the startling ads soon to appear on buses as well, are a shock to the system.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I find them very disturbing.
FLORES: Here's one that says "Islamic Jew-hatred is in the Koran. Stop the hate." And this one which shows a picture of James Foley, moments before he was brutally killed by ISIS, saying, "It's not Islamophobia. It's Islamo-realism."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's America. So you can say what you want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's propaganda to really promote hate.
FLORES: Pamela Geller, the president of American Freedom Defense Initiative, is behind the campaign and says her message is not anti- Muslim; it's anti-Jihad.
PAMELA GELLER, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FREEDOM DEFENSE INITIATIVE: There's nothing in my ads that say Muslim. We oppose Jihad. And the idea that it's anti-Muslim in my opinion is a way of detracting from the message.
FLORES: She says it's the Koran that ignites Jihad.
GELLER: There are numerous, numerous verses and cacique (ph) calling for annihilation of the nonbeliever. "Smite them at their necks." Every action is accompanied by an Islamic prayer.
PETER AWN, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: To say that the Koran in and of itself is really what guides the choices Muslims make is, is really naive.
FLORES: The ads are generating outrage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These ads incite violence.
FLORES: Especially from organizations like the Council on American Islamic Relations.
IBRAHIM HOOPER, COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAM RELATIONS: These ads are targeted mainly at people who are not Muslims. Trying to get them to hate Islam and be hostile to American Muslims.
FLORES: This is not the first time Geller has rattled emotions with edgy campaigns. Look at these ads from back in 2012. When the Metropolitan Transportation Authority rejected one of her ads, she took her message to federal court and won.
(on camera): That's why all of these ads have a disclaimer that says, "The display of this advertisement does not imply MTA's endorsement of any views expressed, because in America all views are protected under the First Amendment."
(voice-over): Freedom of speech, protecting what some call a message of intolerance. In a city and a nation increasingly on the edge.
Rosa Flores, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Rosa, thank you very much.
Back now with Mubin Shaikh and Daveed Gartenstein-Ross.
Listen, you can do that in America. That's what America is all about. Many of the places around the world you cannot do that.
Daveed, the question is: do these anti-Islam ads, or as she said, anti-Jihadist ads, add fuel to the fire at a tense time? Are they dangerous?
GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: They certainly do add fuel to the fire. I don't think there's a question about that. I think the question really is how much fuel do they add?
I'm not convinced that, when you look at the full picture of everything that's going on in terms of lone wolf threats and the like, that it's uniquely dangerous in terms of a terrorist attack. It certainly isn't helpful.
LEMON: Is it -- you said it's not uniquely dangerous. You don't believe that some people will look at that and...
GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: What I mean is when I look at the full range of things that are going on. I don't look at this and say, you know, this, this alone is likely to engender a terrorist attack.
Radicalization, and this is the last thing that we were talking about, radicalization at some length, can be engendered by any number of things, right? There's grievance based. Ideology based. I'm not trying to downplay potential. I'm just saying that if I looked at a list of, say, top five, top ten things that were likely to cause a terror attack, this probably wouldn't be on them. It's possible. We'll see.
CAMEROTA: Well, sure, I don't think that the ads -- the fear of the ads is that they are going to heighten radicalization. Mubin, I think that the fear is that they will heighten hatred towards moderate Muslims. Because they're very inflammatory. They show Adolf Hitler meeting with the Muslim leader. They call for ending all U.S. aide to all Islamic countries. They label -- as you saw, they label the Koran as Islamic Jew hatred being in there.
So it's that again, her argument, Pamela Geller's, is that she's trying to grab people by the shoulders and shake them to tell them what, you know, violent extremism is all about.
LEMON: Alisyn, one thing I noticed in there, she said this was about, you know, it's not about Islamophobia. It's about Islamo-realism. She didn't -- she said Jihad. I didn't hear her say -- or the ads nowhere says Jihad-realism.
CAMEROTA: That's right. She lumps it all together.
So Mubin, what's your reaction to these?
SHAIKH: Pamela Geller is an extremist hate preacher that, in fact, inspired or at least contributed to the inspiration of the Anders Breivik terrorist attack in which children were killed.
Secondly...
CAMEROTA: How -- wait, wait, wait. But how do -- why do you say that? How do you think she contributed to that?
SHAIKH: Well, by this Muslim hatred. The narrative that Muslims are taking over; there's a Muslim terrorist around every corner. This was the narrative that inspired Anders Breivik. His idea was that we're giving too much accommodation to Muslims. I mean, and he quoted her in his manifesto multiple times.
Secondly, what's ironic is that these people they give the same interpretation that terrorists do. So when I hear a non-Muslim critic saying, "Yes, but Islam teaches you to kill the disbelievers" and this and that, they -- they repeat terrorist propaganda verbatim.
Like when she said -- you know, when she said "smite them at their necks." Actually, if you look at the verse in the Koran, this is God speaking to the angels. OK. So they will cherry pick verses, just like the extremists do.
And the third point is, as Daveed was saying, of course with radicalization, it can be anything that, you know, puts somebody over the edge.
But remember, radicalization happens to both, quote unquote, "them" and us. And the question, is that how does it radicalize the American public against Muslims?
At the end of the day, Muslims are more than keen to denounce extremism. So why -- why then, you know, denounce the very people that we are demanding denounce extremism? Makes no sense.
LEMON: Listen. She says that she is -- you know, she has a lot of moderate Muslims who agree with her. Do you believe that is true, Mubin?
SHAIKH: I don't believe that at all.
LEMON: Daveed.
GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: It -- it seems pretty unlikely. I mean, as you said, the -- the slogan is, it's not Islamophobia, it's Islamo- realism. It's pretty clearly talking about the religion, not just Jihadism. LEMON: Yes. And then there is, at the end she said a lot of moderate
Muslims agree with her. But they won't say it publicly. So...
CAMEROTA: Well, these guys said probably that they don't. Daveed and Mubin, thank you.
You know, hose ads start on September 29.
LEMON: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Next week we will see those on buses and subways.
LEMON: Yes. Coming up, LeBron James is one of the most outspoken stars in the NBA. And in a candid new interview he opens up about a number of recent headlines, including issues of racism in the NBA. Our Rachel Nichols goes one-on-one with the superstar next.
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LEMON: This is without a doubt, that LeBron James is the NBA's biggest star. And everything he does makes headlines, including his decision to return to the Cleveland Cavaliers this season.
James is also one of the most outspoken athletes on hot button issues.
CAMEROTA; You are about to see that, because in a new interview, CNN's Rachel Nichols goes one-on-one with the superstar, who talks about everything from the recent scandals in the NBA to unrest in Ferguson, Missouri. And Rachel joins us now from Cleveland.
Rachel, great to see you.
RACHEL NICHOLS, HOST, CNN'S "UNGUARDED": Thanks.
CAMEROTA: We're super excited to see your interview with LeBron. But before we get to that, we understand that you have some breaking news tonight on the NFL's Ray Rice scandal? What is it?
NICHOLS: Yes, well, you guys may remember a few weeks ago the Associated Press came out with a report saying that a law-enforcement official in Atlantic City had actually sent the elevator video of Ray Rice to the NFL in April. So, before they made their decision about his suspension and, certainly before Roger Goodell had said unequivocally that no one there had had the tape and they hadn't seen it.
And he presented evidence of a voicemail someone in the NFL offices with the number there, written right there, saying, "Yes, we got it. I saw it. It's terrible." We didn't know the name of who the law enforcement official sent it to, however.
Today the Associated Press reported a name. And that name, NFL head of security, Jeffrey Miller. So someone in his office was the one who responded and said, "Yes, we got it. You're right. It's terrible."
And in fact, there was a note, apparently, on the DVD saying, "This is the Ray Rice elevator video. You have to see it. It's terrible."
So it is getting harder and harder to believe the NFL's denials. Now it's possible that Jeffrey Miller never saw the tape. And in fact, he came out with a very strong statement tonight, saying he never saw the video. It's certainly possible. But then you have to start asking, how much does that matter? And is it really just a question of accountability? If it was in your office to that degree, somebody should have seen it. And if they've didn't see it, that's almost just as bad.
LEMON: And Rachel, that statement says, "I unequivocally deny that I received at any time a copy of the video and I had not watched it until it was made public on September 8," Joseph Miller. Jeffrey Miller.
CAMEROTA: Jeffrey Miller.
LEMON: So there you go.
NICHOLS: Yes.
CAMEROTA: OK. So Rachel is there another story breaking tonight that has to do with domestic violence? And this one involving the Charlotte Hornets basketball player.
NICHOLS: Yes, absolutely. So, you know, we don't know all the facts in this case yet. And obviously, this is Jeff Taylor. He's, you know, not a prominent player with the Charlotte Hornets. But he's a third-year player. And they certainly were expecting to use him more. And he was arrested on domestic abuse charges. We don't know yet the story behind it. What we do know is the NBA is going to have to take this very seriously.
It doesn't necessarily mean that the right thing to do is just throw Taylor off the court. They have to investigate this.
But the right thing to do clearly here, is to make sure that this is important to them. And that's the lesson that we have learned from the NFL and how they handled, or bungled, the Rice investigation; the lesson we've learned from U.S. soccer that still hasn't taken Hope Solo off the field, despite her domestic violence history here. But, you know, the NBA is going to be under a lot of pressure to thoroughly investigate this.
And I have a source in the league office that tells me that they are already underway.
LEMON: Speaking of the NBA, you were granted an in-depth interview with LeBron James, the first one since re-signing with the Cleveland Cavaliers. It seems like just yesterday it was breaking news. And I was interviewing you, LeBron is going back to Cleveland, oh, my gosh.
I can't wait to see this interview. Let's take a look and then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) NICHOLS: This has not been a great year for NBA owners in general. We saw Donald Sterling forced out of the league.
LEBRON JAMES, NBA PLAYER: Right, right.
NICHOLS: Extremely racist comments. Now the Atlanta Hawks owner is selling his team. He wrote in an e-mail, basically, this team has too many black fans, which was very disturbing.
And the Hawks GM, Danny Ferry, was reported with his own racist comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANNY FERRY, ATLANTA HAWKS GENERAL MANAGER: He's got some African in him if that makes sense. Like he has a storefront out front that's beautiful and great, but he may be selling some counterfeit stuff behind you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES: Danny was the GM when I was there in Cleveland. And I never got that sense about him. But that doesn't mean -- you know what he said about, Luol Deng was right -- absolutely wrong. It was very insensitive. And there's no room for that in our sport. I mean, we all know that, obviously. There's not no room for that in our league, or any league, or not even a league. There's not room for that in society.
NICHOLS: You spoke out on the Sterling issue and you were also outspoken on Trayvon Martin.
JAMES: Yes.
NICHOLS: How has your willingness to take a leadership role on those kinds of things changed as you've gotten older?
JAMES: Well, for me, if I feel passionate about it. And I feel look something needs to be said or something needs to be done, I voice my opinion. And I don't speak without knowledge. I educate myself first before I dive into a situation.
NICHOLS: We've had the incidents in Ferguson, Missouri.
JAMES: Right.
NICHOLS: In the past few months. Aside from the specifics of the situation, it did spark this national conversation...
JAMES: Yes.
NICHOLS: ... on the way America sees young black men. What do you think about where we are right now?
JAMES: Well, I definitely voiced my opinion on the Trayvon Martin piece, and you know, I related to Ferguson. Me having two boys of my own. If just one day, you know, my kids left home to go anywhere, you expect your kids to return. You expect your kids to return home unless they're off to college.
I couldn't imagine them not returning home because of someone else's, I don't know, just not thinking, or cowardice act or whatever the case may be. But we know racism is still alive. And, you know, the only thing that I can do as a role model -- I feel like I'm a leader -- in society is just to teach my kids and teach the people that are following me what the right way is.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NICHOLS: You guys may remember when Michael Jordan was playing he was extremely reluctant to voice any opinion on social issues, political issues at all. LeBron James, obviously not taking that path. Standing up for what he believes, guys.
LEMON: So he's got a long career ahead him. But one guy who's calling it quits, at least when it comes to baseball, 20 years, and it's Derek Jeter. It was a win tonight. Take a look at this video, Rachel.
CAMEROTA: So dramatic. Wait till you see this.
LEMON: Final at-bat in Yankee Stadium. He singled in the bottom of the ninth inning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here comes Richardson. Richardson is safe. Derek Jeter. It's his final game.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Can you believe that?
LEMON: Six-five win. Walk-off win.
NICHOLS: The Captain. Right. Walk-off RBI, bottom of the ninth. Come-back win. I mean, it is amazing. You couldn't have scripted it better. Except, Derek Jeter has done this his entire career. He's not the best Yankee ever. He's not even the best shortstop in Yankees history. But he may be one of their best winners ever. He is Captain Clutch. He showed it tonight.
And guys, I sat down with Derek earlier this summer just talking to him about his retirement. He said that he was looking forward, after these last stretch of games, to just basically do nothing for six or eight months, because he hasn't done that in 20 years. But after that he said he does want to start working toward building to becoming a team owner in Major League Baseball. So you haven't seen the last of Derek Jeter. But man, what a way to go out. Right?
CAMEROTA: Wow.
LEMON: That's the way you go out. CAMEROTA: Like a fairy tale ending. It's like a movie ending.
Rachel, thanks so much.
LEMON: I'm not mad at him. Thank you. Thank you, Rachel. See you soon.
You can watch the full interview with LeBron James tomorrow night on CNN's "UNGUARDED WITH RACHEL NICHOLS" at 10:30 p.m. Eastern. And we will be right back.
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