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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Syrian Rebels Join Forces; Holder to Resign; Missing UVA Student Suspect Arrested in Texas; SC Trooper Shoots Unarmed Motorist

Aired September 25, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

And we begin with this breaking news. We've just received word that about a dozen Syrian rebel groups have been meeting in Turkey and coming to what's being considered a historic agreement to ally together to fight a common enemy or two. Our Drew Griffin is live on the phone with us right now.

So, Drew, break it down for us and tell me the significance of who these fighting groups are and who they've now decided to join together to fight?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE UNIT CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, the significance is going to play out, they hope, in months to come as they continue to organize. What we have basically is the largest moderate rebel group joining forces and agreeing to fight alongside Christian groups, the Syriac (ph) military council, which, I think, is being meant as a sign to Congress and the international community back at the United States that they want to show a united and inclusive front in this fight that they are having in Syria with ISIS and with, you know, Bashar al Assad, the regime. And they are trying to do this, I am sure, to try to get the money that has been approved by Congress to them much faster because they all tell me after this meeting that the conditions in Syria are dire and that these fighters are really being squeezed by these two fronts, the ISIS on one side and Bashar al Assad regime on the other.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, Drew, so much of this seems like it could be considered symbolic because many of them have been joining forces on the battlefield already, whether you want to call it out of desperation, out of need, whatever it is. But since you were actually at this meeting, Drew, and we're told there were two U.S. congressmen who were at these meetings as well, I'm not sure if we can identify who they are, but could you let me know exactly what was said to these groups in terms of what America plans to give them and send them to help them in their fight against ISIS and Bashar al Assad? GRIFFIN: Well, that - I mean that was the focus of the congressional

side of this meeting, Ashleigh. Who are these people? Adam Kinzinger, a Republican from Illinois, and George Holding, a Republican from North Carolina, were the only two to come on this trip, although they had many staffers from the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii, a Democrat, dropped out last week after she voted against funding these rebels. These two congressmen came here because they don't know whom to trust and they want to basically look in the eyes of these people and try to determine if the United States and its citizens should put guns in the hands of these very rebels fearing that they could end up in (INAUDIBLE).

So part of the meeting was to try to develop some trust. The other part of the meeting was trying to get some kind of coalition that's going to protect the Christians. But it was also a very strong venting session where these rebel groups were basically telling these representatives of the U.S. government, these air strikes aren't exactly super helpful if you're just going to hit ISIS and you're not going to hit the Assad regime. And, number two, if you want us to fight ISIS on the ground and not just have you drop a few bombs from the air, you better give us some money because we're running out of bullets.

BANFIELD: Drew, also, if you could let me know, you know, when we talk about a dozen or so of these Syrian rebel groups, you know, convening at this meeting with U.S. congressmen in Turkey, and allying in their common effort to fight ISIS and Assad, who isn't there? Because that might be just as important as who is there. What rebel groups aren't there?

GRIFFIN: Well, some of the major rebel groups fighting in Syria were not there and I think that was on purpose. And they are the Islamist Front and al Nusra. These are the two Islamic groups that are also in the same battle against ISIS and the same battle against Bashar al Assad. They are not going to be a popular group with the U.S. congressmen or with U.S. taxpayers to fund because, quite frankly, they don't trust them.

But those, as you said earlier, Ashleigh, it is a very fluid situation in Syria and basically the enemy of my enemy is my friend. These coalitions form and drop out just as easily as, you know, the battlefield kind of displays itself across Syria. So you have territory being taken, you have territory being seated, you have ISIS coming from one side, you have Assad coming from another and now these rebel forces say we have to worry about air strikes from up above, which, by the way, they say they have no coordination with the U.S. or the international coalition on.

So they are trying to get the message out that they need help. But as far as who we can trust, I don't think these two congressmen left here today knowing for sure who they can trust, only that these people need some kind of help and there needs to be some kind of (INAUDIBLE) Syria to get them through this.

BANFIELD: Yes, that's a pretty troubling premise, though, from the get-go. And certainly when there's money and gear involved, it sure does provide incentive for everybody to join the meeting if they can.

Drew, great job reporting for us from Turkey.

And again, just to, you know, recap this. This -- what's being called by the rebels themselves a historic agreement between 12 of these groups. And don't forget, the Americans have said often they're trying to vet and identify the moderates, the friendlies, so to speak, so that they can help arm and train them inside Syria to fight ISIS and possibly Assad. Their mission is also to fight Assad. The American mission is to fight ISIS. But messy to say the least, yet at least more cohesion on that messy side.

I want to take you now to this, the nation's capital, and a very big resignation just announced. Well, just discovered effectively. Eric Holder, America's first African-American attorney general and one of only three original members of President Obama's cabinet, still in office today, but planning to leave and leave imminently. By all accounts, it is entirely Eric Holder's decision and he says he'll stay on until his successor is confirmed. CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins me now by telephone and our chief political analyst Gloria Borger is live in Washington, D.C.

So first to you, Jeffrey Toobin. You had a very long and extensive interview with Eric Holder back in the wintertime in which he intimated to you that this was the plan, at least by the end of the year he was planning to step down?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST (via telephone): Right. This is not a surprise, as you point out. He told me in my interview for "The New Yorker" magazine that he was planning on leaving by the end of the year. But, you know, he really is very much leaving on his own terms, which might not have been the case earlier in his tenure. He was a very controversial figure in President Obama's first term. And, frankly, it was a very rocky tenure, not marked by a lot of successes.

But in the last two years, he has really embraced a role as the civil rights attorney general. He has sued Texas and North Carolina over voting rights. He has started to move towards releasing nonviolent drug offenders from federal prison. And he is much more on the offensive on the issues he cares about now, so he'll leave with a much greater sense of satisfaction than had he left say at the end of President Obama's first term.

BANFIELD: And before we go any further, Gloria, I want you to listen along. I want to play some sound from last October. This was Eric Holder reflecting on how he got to know his future boss. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Now, we've -- I've never played ball with the president but - and I -- but he's from Hawaii, I'm from New York. You figure out who has the better game. Don't broadcast that. He always hears that and he goes (ph), well, anyway. He's ten years younger and a lot better than me now. But I got - I met him at a dinner that was held for him after he had been elected as a senator, but before he had been sworn in, and I sat next to him at this dinner and we just started talking about a variety of things, sports among them, and criminal justice issues and we saw that we had a lot of similar views and so we just started a relationship that was casual and I used to come by his office and we used to talk about bills that he was thinking about or positions that he would take on criminal justice matters and then we said that he was going to run for president.

I signed up with the thought that it would be a worthwhile experience. Didn't think necessarily he was going to win. But I remember going to Iowa for the first time and speaking to people there, well before the primary, about a year or so before the caucuses, and coming back and telling him, you know, I think you can -- you might win. There are people out there, this is a buzz. There's a sense of great interest in your campaign. And so through that, through the whole period, we got to know each other and after he was elected he called me up and asked me to be attorney general.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Gloria Borger, it's know they're friendly. They're maybe more thanes just friendly, they're good friends.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

BANFIELD: Why this and now? Is there something to the timing of it?

BORGER: Well, there is. According to one Democratic source I spoke with who's close to the attorney general, it was really, you know, it's not unanticipated. He said he was going to leave by the end of the year. But he didn't want this to get mixed up in election year politics at all. He didn't want it, you know, if, for example, the Democrats were to -- were to lose control of the Senate or whatever, he just wanted to kind of take it out of the political arena and so he felt that this time, a month before the midterm elections, would probably be the best time to do it.

BANFIELD: And just quickly, some thoughts on replacements, Gloria?

BORGER: Yes. I've been talking to a source about this who has some knowledge of what might be a short list, although, of course, it's very early stages. And I'll just run some names by you. You put them up on the screen. You know, Kathy Ruemmler, who's a former White House counsel, very well respected, nobody in the White House made a decision without her my source says. The potential knock on Kathy, of course, is that she was the president's lawyer and, as you know, that could raise a question about how independent she would be. Also conservatives might oppose her because of the IRS controversy.

Current Solicitor General Donald Verrilli. You remember, Ashleigh, he argued the Obamacare case. Some said, including Jeff, not brilliantly, but he did make the key tax argument that gave Justice Roberts the sort of hook he needed to keep Obamacare running.

Outside candidates, Governor Deval Patrick. Loretta Lynch, two time U.S. attorney in Brooklyn, very impressive, Harvard Law School grad. Preet Bharara, U.S. attorney for the southern district in New York. The big thing I'm told to keep in mind, Ashleigh, and this is really

important for second term presidents and particularly this president, is that he has to have a comfort level with the person he's going to appointment. You say Eric Holder is very close to him. That is true. They are good friends. And I'd have a hard time believing he would appoint somebody he wasn't really familiar with for the last couple years.

BANFIELD: Although it is only a little over two years, right? So (INAUDIBLE) for two years.

BORGER: Right. But that makes it almost more important. That makes it almost more important for presidents who are looking at the end of their term to get somebody they feel they can kind of go to and know what they're going to get.

BANFIELD: Well, so much more to talk about, including legacy, et cetera. But, you know, legacy really tends to happen a lot later.

Gloria Borger, thank you for that. Thank you for the short list. That was very quickly compiled.

BORGER: Sure.

BANFIELD: And, Jeffrey Toobin, as always, thank you as well.

President Obama, by the way, is expected to make this all officials when he speaks live about Eric Holder at 4:30 p.m. Eastern Time. I think we were told it was like a human rights - or, excuse me, a human resources kind of announcement, but I think the writing is sort of on the wall. You can watch that live right here on CNN.

Some very big developments involving that missing UVA student. A suspect in her disappearance has been nabbed. He is under arrest. But the big question still remains, sure, they may have found the man they're looking for at this point, but what about the student, Hannah Graham? Where is she? Details on that story, next.

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BANFIELD: There has been a huge development in the case of the missing of Virginia student. The search for Hannah Graham is expanding south a long way south, to the Galveston, Texas, area.

That's where the suspect, Jesse Matthew, is right now in custody. He is the last person that police believe was with Hannah Graham before she vanished. But the big question remains, where is Hannah? They may have found Jesse but where is Hannah?

She was seen September 13th in an area of Charlottesville, Virginia, known as the Downtown Mall. There was an arrest warrant out for Mr. Matthew, first on reckless driving charges and then much further on a charge of abduction with the intent to defile.

Police found him yesterday afternoon more than 1,200 miles away from where Hannah disappeared. He was on a beach near Galveston, Texas. He has now appeared before a judge via video link. That happened this morning. And this is very unusual. And his first question took many people who were watching his appearance by surprise. Have a look at it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSE MATTHEW, SUSPECT IN HANNAH GRAHAM DISAPPEARANCE: Sir, I got a question for you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

MATTHEW: Like, they took all my clothes and they got me sleeping with a (inaudible) thing. I feel like I'm a -- I should be able to have some kind of clothes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You appear to me to be dressed in a jump suit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: He is definitely appearing in a jump suit.

I want to bring in CNN's correspondent Jean Casarez in Charlottesville, Virginia. Just so many unusual aspects to this story, can you take me through any of this specifically Galveston?

Why Galveston? Does he have family or contacts or something there or was he potentially headed even farther south, perhaps to Mexico? And the bigger news, are they now searching in the Galveston area?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. Law enforcement says they are still trying to find out if he has any friends or associates in that area because the all-points bulletin was for states on the East Coast, but they're also saying that he was there for a couple of days.

But we are just learning, and we want everybody to know, there is an extradition hearing, Ashleigh, that has been set now for 2:00 p.m. Eastern time there in Galveston. Very important hearing because it will determine when and if he comes back to the state of Virginia and if, in fact, he is fighting that extradition.

But what we learned today by the deputy sheriff's department in Galveston was that one of their patrolman -- his name is Ross Perez -- that he was walking along his area and saw someone yesterday -- being Jesse Matthew -- walked up to him and tried to find out who he was.

Now, we don't know that conversation, but we know that locally in Texas, he was charged with failure to identify as a fugitive and an intent to give false information. So it appears as though he may have not been honest with this deputy.

But after that the arrest ensued. They're holding him on a federal warrant. And of course right here in Virginia, there is a fugitive status for him and there is a felony count of that abduction or kidnapping charge against Jesse Matthew. BANFIELD: Next up let's watch for extradition. Anything you see on

that let us know, Jean. Thank you for that, Jean reporting live from Virginia.

Also a South Carolina trooper pulls over a man for an alleged seatbelt violation. The whole thing is caught on camera. The officer asks the driver to hand over his driver's license, but when the driver reaches for his wallet, well, that's when things get really ugly.

We're going to show you what happened and why now this trooper is facing some charges that could put him away for decades.

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BANFIELD: You are about to see and hear a man being shot, not killed but definitely not, and shot by a state trooper during a traffic stop.

Many parts of this incident may sound very familiar. The officer is white. The man who is shot is blacked. He's not armed. It happened in the South in broad daylight and in public.

But there is one very big difference between this shooting and other recent shootings, for example, in Ferguson, Missouri, or Savannah, Georgia. This shooting was entirely captured on video.

And, again, a warning. It's graphic. It is unedited footage of a man being shot. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN GROUBERT, SOUTH CAROLINA HIGHWAY PATROL TROOPER: Can I have your license please? Get out of the car! Get out of the car! Get on the ground! Get on the ground.

LEVAR JONES, DRIVER SHOT BY POLICE: I just got my license. You said get my license. I grabbed my license right here. That's my license right there.

GROUBERT: Hands behind your back. Put your hands behind your back.

JONES: What did I do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So distressing. What did I do? What did I do? He goes on to say his leg is numb, and the officer calls in help. You see there, are you hit? I think so. I can't feel my leg. I don't know what happened.

CNN'S Martin Savidge is all over this story. Our legal analyst Paul Callan is also here.

Martin, I want to ask you first, the condition of the person who was shot? How is he?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's 35-year-old Levar Jones and he is in good condition, actually. This all happened, Ashleigh, we should point out, on September 4th. He was wounded in the hip, he was taken to the hospital, he was treated, and he has been released, so he is out and recovering.

BANFIELD: Recovering. As well as one can recover having been shot -- I believe there were four gunshots.

Paul, you've watched that video, in fact, with me several times, probably five or six times.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

BANFIELD: Is there making that you see in that video that is defensible for that trooper?

CALLAN: Boy, it's going to be a tough case, a tough defense. You know, you almost never see a case where an officer is arrested immediately in a case like this. Usually they're carefully investigated before charges are brought against a police officer. But you just cringe when you watch it, because it's an obvious overuse of force.

Now, I did note if you turn the sound off, and watch what goes down, I start to see where a defense for the officer will come in. What they're going to say is it looked like when the victim turned toward the officer he kind of had his hands together.

Of course he was holding his driver's license, so the officer will say, well, I thought he had a gun. But there's no gun visible. He's got his hands up. He's doing exactly what he's told to do.

BANFIELD: I'm going to ask our control room if we can re-rack that, because you and I had to watch it four times, each time specifically at looking at the moment that he reached in for his license.

And I would also like our viewers if they would, maybe put yourself for a moment in the perspective of the police officer, as difficult as that might be having seen what you've just seen, noting how quickly the victim actually turns to the car to get his license and whether that changes anyone's perspective.

Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GROUBERT: Can I see your license please? Get out of the car! Get out of the car! Get on the ground!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Turn. It all happens within a matter of about three seconds. The quick turn for him to retrieve his license, and then he turns back around and the license is in his hands.

Is that going to make a difference? Isn't that what police officers are trained to try to decipher?

CALLAN: Yes. You know as many times as I look at this I see no justification for the way the officer acted.

He can't open fire on somebody like this. It's a miracle that the driver of the car wasn't killed.

BANFIELD: He survived after four shots.

CALLAN: Apparently, he must have only been grazed. The reports are he was released from the hospital.

And whenever you hear somebody say, why didn't the cop shoot somebody in the leg rather than killing them? You can't hit even at close range when your hands are shaking and nervous.

This officer obviously overreacted. He was nervous when he was firing the shots, and I think when you watch the film repeatedly, you'll see it's going to be really hard to defend it. Very hard.

BANFIELD: And, Martin, I was going to ask you a little bit about the reaction from the police department, but I know a lot of people have distanced themselves. And he was charged so quickly and I can't -- only because I have some breaking news, so I'm going to say thank you to Martin Savidge. I'm going to say thank you to Paul Callan.

Apparently, we've been talking about ISIS and its blitzkrieg as it charged through Iraq, and we're being told apparently ISIS forces, despite all of these campaigns, these air strike campaigns inside Iraq and inside Syria, has now overrun a base near Baghdad.

We'll have more on that right after the break.

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