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Graham Disappearance Suspect Found, Arrested; UVA Co-Ed Kidnap Suspect in Court; Woman Lures and Kills Mom to Steal Her Babies

Aired September 25, 2014 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Grainy surveillance video emerging after a teen co-ed vanishes into thin air. After combing through

thousands of hours of tape, a mystery man spotted following along with Hannah.

Bombshell tonight. In a late night announcement, cops say the prime suspect, 270-pounds 6-foot-2-inches hospital orderly wanted for kidnap with

intent to molest the teen co-ed captured hiding in a tent on a remote Texas beach, 1,304 miles away from where Hannah disappeared.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesse Matthew is in custody in Galveston, Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Escorted in handcuffs...


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... charged with the kidnapping of University of Virginia student Hannah Graham.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is case is nowhere near over. Help us find Hannah Graham.


GRACE: And live, Ringold (ph), suburbs, cops say a 37-year-old woman lures a young mom, 30-year-old Natalia Roberts (ph), shoots Mommy dead execution-

style in the back of the head to steal her two babies and pass them off as her own.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Catherine Goins (ph) murdered a mother in this home and planned to pretend the victim`s 3-week-old baby was hers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Catherine Goins shot her in the back of the head with a 380-caliber handgun.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) Like, if she wanted kids, adopt.


GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. Grainy surveillance video emerging after a teen co-ed vanishes into thin air. After combing through thousands of hours of tape,

a mystery man spotted with Hannah. And in a late night announcement, cops say the prime suspect, 6-foot-2, 270-pound hospital orderly, wanted for

kidnap with intend to molest the teen co-ed, captured hiding in a tent on a remote Texas beach, 1,304 miles away from where the co-ed disappears.

We are taking your calls. Straight out to Erin McPike, CNN correspondent joining me in Charlottesville. Erin, the circumstances under which he`s

found, this so-called mystery man, very, very unusual. He`s hiding in a tent on Bolivar Peninsula. That`s about 10 miles from Galveston County,

Texas. Hiding in a tent?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, yes. And police say that they have no idea why he went to Galveston. They don`t know if anyone helped him to

Galveston. But they say that the search for Hannah Graham is still focused here in the Charlottesville area in farms surrounding plots of land in nine

counties around Charlottesville.

Now, they do want more information from anyone about Jesse Matthew. They say that one witness told police that Jesse Matthew likes to fish. Well,

the police chief said, If you have any information about where it is that he likes to fish, we need to know where that is. We need to know...

GRACE: Right.

MCPIKE: ... where he goes to contemplate things.

GRACE: OK, everybody, in the last hours, in addition to the so-called mystery man -- he`s not a mystery anymore. It`s Jesse "LJ" Matthew, Jr., a

32-year-old hospital orderly -- caught hiding in a tent over 1,300 miles away from where Hannah goes missing. In court, let`s take a listen to what

he said.


MATTHEW: Sir, I got a question for you.


MATTHEW: Like, they took all my clothes, and they got me sleeping on a (INAUDIBLE) thing. I don`t feel like I`m -- I should be able to have some

kind of clothes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You appear to me to be dressed in a jumpsuit.

MATTHEW: Well, once I get back, they`re going to take my jumpsuit off and tell me I have to take my jumpsuit off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Medical has to clear you out of medical. That`s a requirement of medical. So once medical sees you and clears you and they

move you to another cell, then they`ll give you the jumpsuit back.

MATTHEW: When would that happen?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The deputies probably know better than I would. I assume sometime this morning.


GRACE: OK, Erin McPike, CNN correspondent joining me on the scene -- all right, I got a problem with what I`m hearing. You`ve got a teen co-ed

missing, possibly dead. He`s the last one seen with her. He`s found on the run, hiding in a tent on a beach. And he`s concerned about what he`s

wearing? He wants to know when he`s going to get his clothing back? He says, I want some clothes. The judge says, Well, it looks to me like

you`re wearing a jumpsuit, sir.

Am I missing something? And why is he in medical?

MCPIKE: No, but what the police chief keeps saying is, you know, obviously, once you`re suspected of something, your mind can go to strange

places. And that is, in fact, why they want to talk to anybody who has seen him since. Who knows what has been going through his mind, Nancy.

GRACE: Straight out to Talya Cunningham, WCHV. Talya, why is he talking about how he wants his clothing back? He`s not getting his clothing back.

He`s going to be wearing prison blue or orange until he`s extradited back to Charlottesville. Why is he talking about that? And also, question.

Why is he in medical?

TALYA CUNNINGHAM, WCHV (via telephone): Well, Nancy, I mean, nobody can really know what he`s thinking. I mean, I can presume that he`s probably

scared. He probably -- he`s gotten caught, the psyche of him -- nobody has been able to properly evaluate him because he has been on the run. So

nobody knows what he`s thinking.

He`s been lawyered up. Nobody knows what he`s thinking, what he`s been through, what he`s gone through from Virginia through Texas. And nobody

knows what happened the night of. He`s been very quiet. And we`ve gotten reports from friends saying, you know, that he -- he was withdrawn at

university at one point, and nobody knows...


GRACE: Hold on. Hold on. Before I go all the way back in time -- before we time travel backwards to his demeanor in college, I want to figure out

what`s happening right now.

What we know is this. In a late night announcement, we learn that the prime suspect in the disappearance of teen co-ed Hannah Graham has been

captured. He was hiding out -- let`s see him. He was hiding out in a tent on a remote beach. The beach is Bolivar Peninsula. It`s about 10 miles

out of Galveston County, Galveston, Texas. That`s 1,304 miles from Charlottesville, Virginia. We also know we have a clearer picture --

there`s the beach. He`s camping out there.

Another thing came up, Erin McPike, CNN correspondent, we find out that he stopped en route, bought bottled water, Off insect repellent and asked

would it be OK -- here he is there, at this gas station convenience store - - would it be OK to camp out on the beach.

What do we know about that, Erin McPike?

MCPIKE: Nancy, we -- that is reporting that we don`t have specifically. What we have heard from the police chief is that they are still trying to

talk to anybody who he might have seen along that 1,300-mile route, anybody he would have talked to. They don`t have any indication that he was

traveling with anybody, any of that yet. And that is what they are still trying to find out to determine his state of mind.

GRACE: OK, what I`m trying to do is figure out what happened in that gas station. That`s what I`m asking about. Could we see that video? Because

Michael Christian, that person, that gas station attendant had no problem with him. He comes in. He`s not hiding his face. He has not altered his

appearance. We can see that very clearly. He`s still got his dreads. He`s still basically wearing the same type of outfit he had on when he

left. He goes in and coherently asks for bottled water, insect repellent and asks is it OK to camp on the beach. Shortly after that, a police

officer finds him on the beach.

From that encounter, Michael Christian, we know that he`s charged with false information to a police officer, possibly giving the wrong name. All

right, what do we know -- what happened in that gas station convenience store?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): It`s called Swede`s (ph) Quick (ph) Stop, Nancy. And apparently, Mr. Matthew went

there, bought some bottled water and a can of Off, a spray can of bug spray.

GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing surveillance video that we have obtained. This is the prime suspect in the disappearance of Hannah Graham, a teen co-


OK, Talya Cunningham, WCHV, why he was in court in the last hours?

CUNNINGHAM: Well, he was in the court in the last hours in Texas -- Virginia police have touched down there, as well. And he was speaking with

a judge, and he was waiving his right to extradition, which will speed up the legal process, bringing him back to Virginia quicker.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Areva Martin, defense lawyer, LA, Michael Mazzariello, defense attorney, New York. Bottom line on

extradition, let`s just lift the lid of (INAUDIBLE) the veil or mystery on that. When you`re extraditing somebody, you`re not finding out, are you

guilty, are you innocent, do you want a lawyer, you want to make a statement? They want to know one thing. Is this you? And did the

governor sign a warrant for your extradition? That`s the only two questions that matter in an extradition.

Mazz, I know that you guys have done a lot of extraditions. They`re very simple. You basically match up a fingerprint, unless, like here, he waives

extradition. Tell me about extradition, Mazzariello, very quickly.

MICHAEL MAZZARIELLO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s easy. It`s the jurisdiction where the crime was committed. Once the suspect that`s in

another jurisdiction, then you have to go through procedures. And that`s what they did here. He waived it. Piece of cake. Other than that, seven

to ten days to get him home.

GRACE: Now, it`s my understanding, Michael Christian, that Virginia police are already on their way. They were dispatched in the late night hours to

go and bring Jesse Matthew back to Charlottesville. Is that true, Michael?

CHRISTIAN: They are either on the way or they are there already, Nancy. You`re absolutely correct. They left, I believe, this afternoon --

Thursday afternoon at some point.

GRACE: OK, the search is still on for Hannah Graham. Also, we understand, Talya Cunningham, WCHV, police are -- two alternate investigations, one

being a search for Hannah Graham, the other to obtain forensic evidence to find out if she is still alive.

Talya, my question is, what happened to his roommates? He had two roommates in that apartment, is my understanding, and his pet pitbull.

They`re all gone. Did the roommates hear something, see something? Why would you just move out of your apartment and never come back?

CUNNINGHAM: Well, Nancy, we have not spoken here in Charlottesville with the roommates. We do know that, like you said, they have moved out. Right

after the search took place on Friday, the very first search of the apartment, the two roommates just left. They were not seen. And the

police are not commenting on anything else about the roommates.

GRACE: Back to the lawyers, Michael Mazzariello, Areva Martin. Also joining me right now, Woodrow Tripp, former police commander. Let`s go to

all three of those, Liz, please. First of all, Woody, let`s talk about the roommates. We know that police go in with a search warrant. They search

his car. After they search his car, Woody, they get a search warrant for his apartment.

Then they swoop in for a second search. After that search, we suddenly get an arrest warrant -- arrest warrant -- and the charge is abduction with

intent to defile. Let me just put that out there right now. Attempt to defile also means, based on a 1986 ruling and then a 2012 ruling -- that

was Collin Ellis (ph) versus Virginia Commonwealth -- that said attempt to defile is sex molestation. So kidnap with intent to molest.

What did they get out of that car, Woody, or out of that apartment in that second search? After the second search, we suddenly get a charge. It`s

not kidnap. It`s not not cooperating with police. It is kidnap with attempt to molest. They found something that led them to that charge. Or

Woody, did they talk to the roommates and the roommates hear something or see something that lead them to that charge? Woody, weigh in.

WOODROW TRIPP, FMR. POLICE COMMANDER: It would be possibly a combination of all of the above. But I would be willing to put my money, because of

the probable cause that you have to establish, there had to be some evidence. It`s either some type of tool, some type of rope, something --

DNA, but there had to be something that was located -- and also consider the cell phone and what may be in that. That`s also another piece of


GRACE: Yes, I keep asking about the cell phone. Did he have a cell phone? Did she have a cell phone? Have they been pinged? I`m going to go to

Levitan on that in a moment. But Erin McPike, CNN correspondent, and Talya Cunningham joining us there in Charlottesville. Erin McPike, do we know

anything about whether either he, suspect, or she, victim, had a cell phone?

MCPIKE: We do. She had an iPhone 5. It was in a pink case. And in fact, the police chief re-described that today in this press conference to say

anybody in the area needs to look on their land to see if it`s there, then not touch it and call authorities if they see it.

Now, on the evidence -- there was evidence obtained in that search. He`s not at liberty to disclose what the evidence is, but it did then lead them

to say, We now can issue a warrant for the arrest of Jesse Matthew.

GRACE: Right. Right.

MCPIKE: Won`t say what the evidence is because otherwise, it would be prejudicial, but he said it will be important at the time of the trial. So

that evidence...

GRACE: Right. Right-right.

MCPIKE: ... is what led them to (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: All right, OK, let`s fast-forward. Let`s talk about what she`s just told us, Erin McPike. We know she has an iPhone. We know it`s in a

pink wrapper. But this is the deal. The fact that her iPhone is missing means she either has it on her person, it`s been thrown away. They don`t

know where it is. That means it`s either turned off -- and what it definitely means is they`re not getting a ping.

If they need people to help them find it, Ben Levitan, that means it`s inactive or turned off, they`re not getting a ping. What does that mean,

Ben, as it relates to this investigation?

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): That`s absolutely right, Nancy. She had an iPhone. Normally, we can only determine where

someone`s located when they make or receive calls. But when you have a smartphone, it sends out data every once in a while on its own. So even if

she wasn`t making a phone call, while that phone was still on, probably once an hour, it was sending out data which would give us a indication of

her location.

Once that phone was turned off, we have no way of finding out where it was.

GRACE: Erin McPike, Talya Cunningham, Ben Levitan, here`s the deal. We got him, but we want her. At this time, at this hour tonight, still no

sign of Hannah.



MATTHEW: Sir, I got a question for you.


MATTHEW: Like, they took all my clothes, and they got me sleeping (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By the grace of God and the good work of the Galveston sheriff`s office, it took (ph) place (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kill or hurt somebody -- that`s not my son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very surprised.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Matthew was the last person seen with 18- year-old University of Virginia sophomore Hannah Graham.


GRACE: Straight out to Marc Klaas, president, founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. His specialty, finding missing people. OK, Marc, we`ve got

him. We still don`t have a clue as to where she is. In fact, tonight, Marc Klaas, people are wondering, do we need to search for her, the 1,304

swath of U.S. between Virginia and Bolivar Peninsula in Galveston. So it`s my belief that if this girl is dead -- if, and I`m praying she`s still

alive -- he would put as much distance as he could between himself and Hannah`s body.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Yes, I completely agree. I think one of the keys to finding Hannah at this point -- and Ben already talked about

the cell phone pinging, and perhaps that will lead law enforcement somewhere, if it was left on after she disappeared, but also...

GRACE: No, it`s off. It`s off, Marc. They don`t have a ping.

KLAAS: All right, but then also, the vehicle that he was driving. They can look on the undercarriage of that vehicle and see if there`s any kind

of unique biological material, either -- either weeds or growth or some sort of insects that are unique to a specific place in and around that

area. That, too, might lead law enforcement to where she is.

And then, of course, there`s always the possibility that he`ll say something, but I think it`s going to be a cold day in hell before he helps

law enforcement find this girl.

GRACE: Everyone, right now, we`ve got the prime suspect in custody. He is en route, or will be in a couple of hours. Probably through the night,

they`ll travel with him back to Charlottesville, Virginia. But we don`t have her. We need answers.

OK, Michael Mazzariello, Areva Martin -- no way, Areva, is this guy going to talk to police. He`s already got a lawyer. I mean, when you don`t know

a horse, Areva, look at his track record. Last time, he went with his whole family to police. He was in the police station. He got a lawyer.

He talked to the lawyer a few moments. He went and turned around, left, got in the car and took off like a bat out of Hades, which got him a charge

of erratic driving. So I`m going to judge him on history. He`s not going to talk to police.

AREVA MARTIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think you`re right, Nancy. But I just hope we`re not focusing all this energy on Matthew and there`s someone

else out there that knows something about this young lady`s disappearance. We`ve heard his family members come forth and say that he said, although

they left that club together, that she never got into his car and that they went their own separate ways. We also know in that area there have been

four other abductions and some ladies who were killed and murderers not caught. So I just hope that police...

GRACE: Now, hold on. Hold on.

MARTIN: -- are not spending all of this time...

MAZZARIELLO: Good point.


GRACE: Areva...

MARTIN: ... and there`s someone else out there, Nancy.

GRACE: There`s Michael Mazzariello joining in, tuning up. Let`s see the two lawyers. All right, let me have a quick, quick brief reality check to

both of you, all right? Yes, of course, we don`t want tunnel vision on the wrong person. But let me just remind the two of you that after they did a

search of his apartment and of his car, they issue a warrant of kidnap with intent to sexually molest.

MAZZARIELLO: But Areva is right, Nancy. Could be what she said is true.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesse Matthew is in custody in Galveston, Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You appear to me to be dressed in a jumpsuit.

MATTHEW: Well, once they -- once I get back there, they`re going to take my jumpsuit off of me, telling me I have take my jumpsuit (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is every parent`s worst nightmare.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wanted no longer. Jesse Leroy Matthew, Jr., is now in custody.

MATTHEW: Sir, I got a question for you.


MATTHEW: Like, they took all my clothes, and they got me sleeping on a (INAUDIBLE) thing. I don`t feel like I`m -- I should be able to have some

kind of clothes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You appear to me to be dressed in a jumpsuit.

MATTHEW: Well, once I get back, they`re going to take my jumpsuit off and tell me I have to take my jumpsuit off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Medical has to clear you out of medical. That`s a requirement of medical. So once medical sees you and clears you and they

move you to another cell, then they`ll give you the jumpsuit back.

MATTHEW: When would that happen?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The deputies probably know better than I would. I assume sometime this morning.


GRACE: You are seeing, as we have all seen, the prime suspect in the disappearance of co-ed Hannah Graham, prime suspect and -- the suspect of

her disappearance, let me rephrase.

In the last hours, he has been captured on a remote beach hiding in a tent, 1,304 miles away from where Hannah disappeared, driving his sister`s blue

Nissan. The same picture we have been putting out on the airways for days now. He was, in fact, driving that. There`s a shot. Good police work we

believe. No cell phone pings or high-tech gear used. Cop finds him, questions him, becomes suspicious. Bam, he`s arrested.

In a few short hours, he would be en route with numerous sheriff`s deputies back to Charlottesville, Virginia.

Joining me right now, a childhood friend of this man, 6`2", 270 pound hospital orderly, Jesse LJ Matthew, Jr. With me is Michael Moore.

Mr. Moore, thank you for being with us.


GRACE: You say you believe he is innocent. You know him very well. Why do you say that?

MOORE: Well, for one this is -- this is totally not in Jesse`s character. This is not something that he is known to me for even thinking about doing.

So that`s why I say that he is innocent.

GRACE: Let me ask you, Mr. Moore -- with me childhood friend of Jesse Matthew, Michael Moore.

Michael, do you know him to have a physical ailment? Why would he be in sick bay, medical bay in the -- in the jail?

MOORE: Well, I have no idea why he`s there. I don`t think that he has any kind of mental illness. That has never came about --


MOORE: As we were growing up. So I have no idea --

GRACE: When was the last time you spoke with him?

MOORE: I spoke with him two months ago. I have spoken to him and we had actually had a very good conversation. So --

GRACE: Let me ask you this. Do you know if he had a girlfriend or fiancee, dating anybody?

MOORE: I don`t know that, no.

GRACE: All right. Do you know who his roommates were?

MOORE: No, ma`am. No, ma`am. I really couldn`t tell you.

GRACE: I wonder what became of his dog, his Rottweiler. He left -- he left his plants there. His roommate fled, left his dogs behind with

somebody that he gave his explanation to.

Was he a camper, Michael? Did he like to camp?

MOORE: Well, he`s always talked about camping but as for him why actually camping, I can`t say that I`ve ever known him to actually camp so --

GRACE: Interesting that he chose this time for a camping trip. Do you know if he had camping equipment or did he actually have to go buy all of

this equipment?

MOORE: Well, I don`t know if -- he had obviously had camping safety equipment but he may have brought it, I`m not for sure.

GRACE: Why do you think he took off, Mr. Moore?

MOORE: Well, in my opinion and this is like coming from like a lifetime childhood friend, Jesse is not the kind that is like easily -- to be under

pressure. I think that he was scared. I think that he was frightened as being a suspect. Because --

GRACE: So you think he was frightened? You think he was frightened at the whole thing.

MOORE: Yes. Yes.

GRACE: Mr. Moore, you`ve been friends since childhood, did he always drink bourbon?

MOORE: I`m sorry?

GRACE: Does he like bourbon? That`s what he ordered that night at Tempo Restaurant and Bar. Did he always drink bourbon?

MOORE: Not that I`ve known of. I`d really didn`t know him as to be a drinker so --

GRACE: Yes. Do you know if he had a cell phone? When he called you the last time you spoke, was it on a cell?

MOORE: No, it was usually face-to-face.

GRACE: Face-to-face.

MOORE: That`s right.

Everyone with me, Michael Moore, long time friend of Jesse Matthew.

And Michael Christian, back to you, is the search now going to ensue? Police are saying they`ve searched 90 percent of the spots they need to

search in Charlottesville so where do we go now? What are we going to do? Are we going to have to search between Charlottesville and Galveston for

Hannah Graham?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Charlottesville police, Nancy, have indicated that they believe that Heather Graham -- excuse me, Hannah

Graham may still be in the Charlottesville area. They are asking people there to do anything they can to help. Look at surveillance.

GRACE: Right.

CHRISTIAN: Real estate agents, check vacant lots.


GRACE: There is a standing $100,000 reward in the search for a missing teen co-ed out of UVA. In the last hour, as the prime suspect in her

disappearance, Jesse LJ Matthew, Jr. has been found. The 32-year-old hospital orderly was found on a remote swath of beach called Bolivar

Peninsula. It`s about 10 miles out of Galveston County, Galveston, Texas, 1304 miles away from the spot where Hannah seemingly disappears into thin


He did not put up an arrest. He did not put up a fight at the time of arrest. We do know that out of the encounter with police, he was charged

with false information to a cop. Did he give a fake name? Don`t know. But that`s why he was arrested.

We also know that pending now, formal police charges on an arrest warrant, kidnap, abduction with the intent to defile, translation, as of a 2012 case

of "Ellis versus Commonwealth," intent to sexually molest. Why that charge and more important, where is Hannah?

Her parents speaking tearfully, the mother, tears streaming down her face. As the mother is crying, the father is visibly trembling, clutching her

childhood stuffed animal that was lost and then found, comparing that to Hannah that they refer as to incredibly precious to us, her family.

Tonight, residents, realtors, landowners being asked to check their cartilage, in other works their property. Outhouses, I refer to sheds,

buildings, farms, garages. Anything in the search for Hannah Graham. Repeat a $100,000 reward.

Also at this time, Talya Cunningham, WCHV joining me.

We know that Charlottesville law enforcement have gone to go and bring him back themselves. Any idea when he`s going to be back in the jurisdiction,


TALYA CUNNINGHAM, REPORTER, WCHV RADIO: Well Nancy, during the press conference that started at 3:00 with Police Chief Tim Longo he did say just

because the extradition was waved, that it will bring him back quicker. Now we expect him to be back in Virginia tomorrow or the next day. It`s

just based on travel conditions is what Police Chief Tim Longo referred to during the press conference. So hopefully within the next day or so.

GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing Jesse LJ Matthew, Jr., just appearing in court en route, on his way back to Charlottesville to answer up to lady

justice but at this hour, where is Hannah?

Everyone, switching gears, CNN heroes.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love being a mom. It`s the most rewarding thing I`ve ever experienced. On the flip side, the financial burden of having a

child is just tremendous. So many people have such an abundance and so many others strive to afford even the basics.

OK. Who wants to water?

I remember reading an article and it was about a mother who decided to give her child up for adoption because she couldn`t stand to hear her crying

from hunger. I just thought that no mother should ever be faced with that choice. So that`s when I decided that I needed to do something.

I started to collect excess baby gear and that was when Moms Having Moms was born.

Boys` clothes are up to the right. Girls` clothes are to the left.

We have drives at our storage space. We like to call them shopping days because they are essentially shopping. They`re just not paying anything

for it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is really cool.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve been out of work for about 10 months. New clothes, diapers, and wipes. They are a constant expense.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are just great. Just take one more.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was hard to afford the things that I needed for my kids without an income.

Thank God.

The things that I got today will allow me to put that money toward my rent or my bills.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every child deserves a fair start. And if what we`re doing helps bridge the gap between people from different backgrounds even

in a small way, then it`s definitely worth all the hard work.



GRACE: And now to Ringgold suburbs, cops say a 37-year-old woman lures a young mom, 30-year-old Natalia Roberts, shoots mommy dead, execution style,

in the back of the head, to steal mommy`s two babies and pass them off as her own.


GARY R. SISK, SHERIFF, CATOOSA COUNTY, GEORGIA: Catherine Goins killed Natalia Roberts because she wanted her babies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sheriff says it all happened because she always wanted Roberts` 3-week-old child.

SISK: She lured her there with the pretense that she was -- wanted to give her some clothes for Roberts` newly born babies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murdered the mother in this home and planned to pretend the victim`s 3-week-old baby was hers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely brutal, absolutely brutal. I could not believe it happened. It`s crazy.


GRACE: You know, I don`t know even know what to say about this, the shocking nature of this crime. According to police, a mother of three,

including a 3-week-old baby, was lured to the defendant`s home, Catherine Goins, 37 year old, in Ringgold, lured on Craigslist with selling used baby

clothes or giving away used baby clothes.

This young mother of three shows up for the baby clothes, instead she gets a bullet to the back of the head execution style. According to police, the

defendant, also a female, shoots her in order to take her infant. She`s got a 3-week-old and 3-year-old with her, passing them off as her own.

Brian Joyce with the "Brian Joyce Show 102.3". Brian, thank you for being with us. What happened?

BRIAN JOYCE, THE BRIAN JOYCE SHOW HOST: Thank you so much for having me on the show, Nancy.

As you said, this is just really shocking. And it`s important to have the background here. So the suspect, Catherine Goins, she had initially told

police that she was just at her ex-boyfriend`s house. She heard a noise; she spotted an intruder and she shot the intruder.

Well, as we`ve now found out, there was no intruder inside the house. She had intentionally lured this young mother to her own death.

GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing the location. We`re talking about -- Nanette Sosa, "News Radio 106", Nanette, what more do we know?

NANETTE SOSA, NEWS RADIO 106 HOST: Not just lured her to the house, once she shot her, she tried to clean up that crime scene, then calls the

boyfriend to tell him that story that you just heard, an intruder. She leaves the home with those two children, the 3-week-old and the 3-year-old

and takes off. The ex-boyfriend, who owned that home, comes back to his home and finds the lifeless body of this single mom of three, Natalia


GRACE: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers," help me, Bethany.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR, "DEALBREAKERS": There is common psychology amongst women who kill moms for their babies. And the

psychology is that these women usually have an extensive history of lying to boyfriends, friends, family members and the lie is that they`re pregnant

and about to conceive.

Sometimes they will have pseudocyesis (ph) which is like a false pregnancies, sometimes they`ll feign a baby bump. And what happens when it

gets to the eighth or the ninth month, of course, they can`t produce a baby. So then they have to substantiate the lie through some frantic

homicidal effort.

And this is what we see in some new stories, we women that will actually go find a pregnant woman, slash open the tummy to get the fetus. In this case

it was a bullet to the back of the head.


GRACE: A mother, a young mother of a 3-week-old baby, is lured by the promise of baby clothes. When she gets there, instead of used baby clothes

she gets a bullet to the head execution style. She`s there with her 3- year-old child and 3-week-old child.

According to police, she`s killed by a 37-year-old woman Catherine Goins, who then took Natalia Roberts` children, passing them off as her own.

Justin Freiman, I don`t even know where to start with this.

JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, this woman, Catherine Goins has been weaving -- telling a lot of lies here. She told her ex-boyfriend

that she was pregnant. Cops say that was not true. There`s no evidence of her ever being pregnant. She also told a lie about shooting an intruder.

Again, cops say not true.

GRACE: Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner, forensic pathologist.

What can we learn, Dr. Gallagher, from the shot itself, from the entrance and exit wound?


One thing that we can learn from the gunshot wound is the distance that the muzzle of the gun was to the victim. There are stippling marks and soot

that is deposited on the skin, that will give us an idea of range. And also we know that the shot was from behind. The victim was not expecting

it. And a 38 caliber to the back of the head is instantly fatal injury.

GRACE: You know, at this young age, Dr. Gallagher, her 3-week-old child, especially -- what if she`s nursing? I mean at that point, children need

their mothers she really to live. She`s leaving behind three children, according to police because this woman wanted children of her own after

lying to her boyfriend for months she was pregnant. What would a baby go through without its mother?

GALLAGHER: It`s difficult to say what a 3-month-old baby can perceive. Certainly the 3-year-old child will have some far-reaching psychological

effects from this incident.

GRACE: What about it, Bethany?

MARSHALL: Well, definitely the child will not only did the 3-year-old watch this trauma scene, her mother being shot at the back of the head, but

the 3-week-old now has a disruption of the attachment system, which is we know predisposes a child throughout the life span to pervasive learning

disorders, attachment issues, insecurity.

I just hope the 3-week-old gets placed back in to a family where there`s a lot, a lot of nurturing and love and care so that all the attachment

systems are shorn up and there`s a sense of predictability going forward.

GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember, American hero, Army Second Lieutenant Scott Lundell, 35, Hurricane, Utah. Bronze Star, Purple Heart,

loved football, mother Margaret, seven brothers and sisters, widow Jeanine, children Adam, Alison, Logan and Liberty.

Scott Lundell, American hero.

Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.