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More Ferguson Protests; War Against ISIS

Aired September 26, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It is the top of the hour. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you for joining us.

This is CNN's special live coverage of the war against ISIS. For weeks, we have watched videos like this one. It's textbook propaganda showing victory after victory, ISIS fighters winning battles and steamrolling through towns. But, today, for the very first time, CNN cameras caught something very different, an ISIS defeat, incredible live pictures showing a firefight between ISIS militants and Kurdish fighters.

And ISIS militants taking a hit dragged off that battlefield. And as the bullets lit up the skies, Turkish, Kurds and Syrian refugees watched on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That ISIS has been making progress, a few more miles each day.

Now, just take a look up on that ridgeline now.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BLACK: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Yes, that's cheering as eventually ISIS fell, retreating after taking too many hits.

And as for our own battle with ISIS back here in Washington, the top brass at the Pentagon had an update for everyone on just how the war is going.

Let's head to CNN's Jim Sciutto. He's our chief national security correspondent. He was there asking some very good questions.

So, what did Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and Joint Chiefs Chairman Martin Dempsey have to say? What did you gain from what they told the American public today?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, We pressed them on a couple things.

One thing I presumed him on was whether U.S. and the coalition would come to the aid of those Syrian Kurds that we saw battling those ISIS fighters live on television. This is a part of Eastern Syria that U.S. airstrikes have not extended to yet. And those Syrian Kurds are facing the same genocidal threat, frankly, that we saw the Yazidi people in Northern Iraq face, other groups as ISIS sweeps through their territory.

They kill them. They take their women and children, et cetera. So I asked them, why hasn't the U.S. come to their defense? Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel said they're aware of the situation, aware of the threat, and they are now talking with their coalition partners including Turkey, about what they could do to come to their aid if possible.

The other thing I pressed him on was -- you will remember it was only last money when Defense Secretary Hagel and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Martin Dempsey were testifying on Capitol Hill and when they were pressed on that question, will U.S. troops, will they request U.S. troops to take part in this fight against ISIS, General Dempsey at the time said, listen, if I believe it's necessary to win this battle, I will make that recommendation.

We had 10 days afterwards of administration denials. So, I went back to General Dempsey today and I said, do you stand by that statement? Because, to me, Don, he sounded like a commander who said I'm going to recommend whatever I believe is necessary to win the battle.

Listen here to how General Dempsey answered that question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: I'm not talking about a large presence. I'm talking about, for instance, helping in targeting, targeting airstrikes or forward- deployed advisers. Are those specific missions that you might ask the president for U.S. forces?

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF CHAIRMAN: I will -- I just stand by the statement. I will make a recommendation.

The president gave me a mission. Destroy ISIL. And I will recommend to him what it takes to destroy ISIL.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: You heard that there, Don, no walking back of his vow, if he feels necessary to accomplish that mission that he was describing, if he feels it's necessary to request U.S. ground troops, he will ask for them.

Now, to be clear, he's not talking about a big occupying force, 100,000 troops like you saw in Iraq. I asked him specifically about functions like targeting for airstrikes, where you would have special forces on the ground helping the warplanes to hit the targets they need to hit, or possibly those military advisers that we already have on the ground in Iraq, instead of being back at command centers, being up closer to the front line. Those are both things again today, Don, he said that if he felt they

were necessary, he would ask the president for them. He hasn't said that's necessary yet. We also don't know what the president would say, but he did say if he feels they're necessary, he will go to the president.

LEMON: To ask for it.

Thank you, Jim Sciutto in Washington. Appreciate that, Jim.

With us now, Fareed Zakaria, host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS."

Fareed, the battle we have been watching on the Syrian border with Turkey, it brings to mind Turkey's lack of involvement in this fight against ISIS. Turkey is a member of NATO. ISIS is right on its border and yet Turkey seemed reluctant to get involved? Why do we need Turkey and why the heck aren't they on board right now?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: It's a great question.

Turkey has been very reluctant to take on ISIS militarily because in the short-term, it had 49 hostages. Remember that ISIL, ISIS took over the Turkish Consulate in Mosul, 49 hostages, plus one dog. And they had been negotiating or what was described as a political operation had been under way to try and find a way to get them back.

Last week, I was at a meeting with Erdogan, the president of Turkey. And he revealed that what happened was they got the hostages back, and they got them back essentially with a prisoner exchange, kind of like the ones the Israelis do.

So, there were no conditions. They did not make any assurances to ISIS that they would not attack them. All of a sudden, Turkey is now in a different position. It has freedom to act and it has freedom to maneuver. We should be pressing them very hard for precisely the reason you're describing.

If you listen to what General Dempsey was saying, we do need a ground force. The ground force will not be Americans for a whole bunch of reasons, but it's not even a good idea for it to be American. The Turks are a very powerful fighting force. They have a very good army, very well-trained, NATO. They even a good air force.

If they were to get engaged and if they were to be the ground force to American military power, it would be much more effective because they're not going home. This is the one thing people forget about American power. At the end of the day, we go home.

LEMON: Right.

I want to ask you this, before I go into who signed on, new people, new countries that signed on to the coalition. As you look at the video, it's fascinating because many of the military experts -- or some, I should say, of the military experts I have been speaking to said, you know what? You guys are making ISIS out to be, you know, much bigger than they are. They are the bully on the playground. And so far, we have sort of

tapped around the edges. Now we punched them in the nose. Was this video insightful to you at all as you were watching this live happen on CNN?

ZAKARIA: Yes. It's exactly the right point, which is this is not a massive fighting force. This is not an army capable of holding vast swathes of territory.

Remember, for the most part, they don't hold much territory. The maps we show are somewhat misleading, because a lot of that space is desert. What they hold are a few cities like Raqqa, not even cities, towns like Raqqa. What they are is fearsome, dedicated, willing to die, willing to fight.

They're very different from al Qaeda, though. Here's how I think how we think to about it. Al Qaeda was mostly foreign fighters. Al Qaeda was mostly a foreign army encamped in Afghanistan. These guys, ISIS, are a local group for the most part. Yes, they have foreign fighters, but mostly they're disaffected Sunnis in Iraq and Syria.

So the strategy has to be political, as well as military.

LEMON: Because they live there.

ZAKARIA: Because they live there. They are not going to go. They draw on the dissatisfaction of the locals. If you can't address that political reality, they're not going to go away, no matter how bombs you throw.

LEMON: You said not going home, not going away. That's been the theme throughout our conversation here.

Speaking of that, though, the coalition, Britain signed on and as well as others. But the question is, why isn't Egypt there? You said this will center on Arab nations. That's the most -- that's key here. But why isn't Egypt there?

ZAKARIA: Egypt is mostly internally convulsed.

I think they're dealing with their own, getting their, putting their own house in order. They don't want to get involved in something that distant right now. Again, we could press them, but the honest truth is the Egyptians are not going to critical here. They don't border in quite the same way as Turkey does. The Egyptian army is not as impressive as the Turkish army.

I think it would be nice to get Egypt involved, but what is really crucial is if we get the Turks involved.

LEMON: Wouldn't it be great if this is like a security alliance in that part of the world from this because all of the Arab nations that are involved? That would be something, wouldn't it?

ZAKARIA: Yes, the most promising piece here could be something of rapprochement, something of a rapprochement between the Arab states and Iran, because now they have the same enemy. Right?

ISIS threatens Iran just as much as it threatens Saudi Arabia. And so this deep divide that you have seen between the Persians and the Arabs, the Shia and the Sunni, maybe they can come together, at least for some workable arrangements. It's always helpful in international relations to have a common enemy.

LEMON: Thank you. Smartest man in the room, Fareed Zakaria, host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS." Make sure you watch his show 10:00 a.m. Eastern on Sundays right here on CNN.

Just ahead, the man who was on the border during that firefight joins me live on where those ISIS terrorists are heading right now.

Plus, heated protests erupt after the Ferguson police chief apologizes for the death of Michael Brown. I will speak live with the man who took over security matters in Ferguson during the most heated protests.

Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: For weeks now, we have been speaking of ISIS brutality and seeing the terrorists in action only in the way they want in propaganda videos.

But here now, I want you to witness ISIS as you have never before, live in battle, under fire, the remarkable viewpoint coming from CNN crews positioned in Turkey near Syria's border in the town of Karaca. The voice you will hear in the following clip is our Phil Black at the border.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLACK: But they have been reporting to us each day that ISIS has been making progress, a few more miles each day.

Just take a look up at that ridgeline now.

(CROSSTALK)

BLACK: What you are seeing is tracer fire moving in to that ridgeline that is currently occupied by ISIS forces.

And around me, the Kurdish crowd is cheering. Take a listen.

Now, John, it's getting dark here, so increasingly difficult to make out the actual figures on the ridgeline itself, but we can see from that tracer fire that they are still receiving incoming fire. And it is at that position that our photojournalist Claudio Otto (ph) has been seen ISIS fighters take casualties, take hits. They have received injuries. And they have seen other fighters carrying their wounded away from that location.

(END VIDEOTAPE) LEMON: Extraordinary.

Phil Black now with me from the Syrian-Turkish border.

Phil, the refugees, while you were all watching this like they were rooting for a team. Tell us how they found this location that gave such an incredible vantage of this fighting.

BLACK: Indeed, Don, yes.

So, we were surrounded earlier today by Turkish people, Kurds also, but also some of the refugees that have made their way across this border in recent days and weeks. They have been fleeing the sorts of fighting you were just watching there.

Those ISIS fighters have been converging on this area of Northern Syria, just across the border behind me. That territory is very much largely ethnically Kurdish heading towards the main Kurdish town of Kobani, which is only a few miles across the border behind me. And it's that advance from those Kurdish fighters that you saw there, as well as those advancing towards the town from other areas as well that has created very much a humanitarian crisis here in this border region.

During this week, we have seen around 200,000 ethnic Kurds from Syria crossing over into Turkey seeking shelter, really just dropping everything, abandoning their livelihoods, their lives, their homes, everything, grabbing their children and running.

Such is the fear that ISIS has generated in the community. And as they move closer, as we have been told they are doing and as we saw firsthand today to some extent they are doing as well, it is generating more fear and they are also claiming civilian lives, because a lot of the refugees that have been crossing this border, and we have been talking to them in recent days, have been talking about their own intimate experiences with ISIS, the day ISIS came to their towns and villages and killed their loved ones, either caught in crossfire, executed or wiped out by ISIS artillery.

It's very much a humanitarian crisis. And if ISIS continues to advance through this region, the expectation has to be, I think, that it will continue to get much worse, Don.

LEMON: All right. Please be safe, Phil Black. Thank you very much with that.

I want to get now to something that is happening. I will take thank you to Chicago. They're holding a press conference regarding about the worker who supposedly tried to commit suicide at O'Hare Airport and air traffic has been backed up. They're updating us now. Let's take a listen.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

GREG THOMAS, AURORA, ILLINOIS, POLICE CHIEF: One other employee, an adult male about 50 years of age, was treated at the scene for smoke inhalation.

This is a joint investigation between a number of agencies, ATF, FBI, FAA, Aurora Police, Aurora Fire, King County Sheriff's office and Naperville Police are also assisting.

Information received from the FAA is that flights are currently arriving and departing in the Chicago area at a reduced rate. Air space management has been transferred to adjacent traffic facilities. The FAA is encouraging people to contact their airlines for further information, as many flights have been delayed or canceled.

Any questions flights about -- any questions about flight operations should be directed towards the FBI.

That's my -- I'm sorry, FAA. Too many initials.

QUESTION: What can you tell us about what the individual said to your officers or firefighters as he was being treated and transferred to the hospital from here?

THOMAS: Well, I think would be inappropriate to start talking about information that is being learned during the investigation. At this time, I'm going to not comment about statements.

QUESTION: What condition was he in then and now?

THOMAS: He had multiple stab wounds. There was blood loss, and he was taken to the hospital and was treated and currently in stable condition.

QUESTION: What damage did he cause to the facility?

THOMAS: I don't know. I have no idea about FAA or any kind of computer guy or anything like that. I really can't tell you what was damaged there.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

THOMAS: Can I identify...

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

THOMAS: No, I cannot.

QUESTION: Chief, there is a Facebook posting out there that has been attributed to him. Are you aware of that and some of the motives that he has expressed on that Facebook?

THOMAS: I have been aware of the Facebook postings, but I can't comment whether or not -- how far that goes, because you have investigations ongoing.

I don't think it's appropriate to start jumping to conclusions until we actually put all those pieces together and understand who is doing what to whom, and how it happened, how it transpired, all that evidence being collected. QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

THOMAS: Pardon?

QUESTION: What is being done at the house at Naperville?

THOMAS: The house at Naperville is the residence of the individual. Right now, it's just being watched until we have an opportunity to actually get in the house and search the house for anything, evidence that way.

QUESTION: Do you know what charges he could face?

THOMAS: Again, it would be a federal charge. And I'm not a federal agent. So I don't know. One of the federal agents may be able to answer that one.

QUESTION: Is there a federal agent who might want to talk about that?

THOMAS: Sure.

TOM AHERN, ATF: Tom Ahern from ATF.

The U.S. attorney's office has been kept apprised of the investigation. Any charges that come out will come from the U.S. attorney's office.

QUESTION: This is a federal crime, right? (OFF-MIKE)

AHERN: Yes, it is. But this is a joint investigation that we're working with our partners here. The crime scene is still being worked on.

You know, the fire scene is still -- evidence is being examined and gathered. And so the investigation continues. There's a great deal of work that still has to be done. There are interviews to be conducted with witnesses and other co-workers. So it will take a while before the investigation is concluded.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) confirm that the radar lines in the facility were purposely cut and gas-soaked rags were used to set fires inside the facility on those pieces of equipment?

AHERN: We can't confirm any of the investigation at this time. But, you know, it's still being examined. We don't know what his motive was at this point. And so the evidence is still being collected.

QUESTION: Would you discuss what's being attributed to you today, and that is this report that he was upset about a (OFF-MIKE) Can you speak about that?

THOMAS: I was just going to finish up your question about -- again, we're not FAA -- get my initials right -- agents, and so we don't know what damage was done to that facility. The only people that were down there were the firefighters. Their first reaction was to put out that fire. When they came across the individual, they had to deal with that process, and get him help, and then evidence processing.

It is going to be a little while before we actually understand what all was damaged in there. And that's not police or anybody else's purview. That's FAA. And we need to get our stuff done so they can get in there and process.

LEMON: Officials in Illinois, Chicago, Illinois holding a press conference updating the public on exactly what happened.

We're not exactly sure who that gentleman was, but I do know Tom Ahern from working there. He's head of ATF in Chicago office, saying that this -- giving information saying that this is a federal crime, the U.S. attorney's office will decide charges.

They're also updating the condition of the man, saying he had multiple stab wounds when they found him, loss of blood. He's at the hospital now in serious condition. They did not identify him, but they say he is from Naperville. His house is under surveillance. They were trying to get in to search it to see if they could find out any information on what caused this, Naperville a very big suburb of Chicago.

Again, the FBI, ATF, FAA, local police all working together with this. Flights are arriving and departing at a reduced capacity. Both airports in Chicago, many flights have been can canceled or delayed. If you have questions, you need to call the FAA. That's as much as we know now. If we get more information, we will update you here on CNN.

It was a night of protests and arrests in Ferguson as the people there make sure their police chief know they will not accept his apology. Joining me next, Missouri State Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson on what is being done to keep the peace.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Seems like "I'm sorry" just won't be enough for some Michael Brown supporters in Ferguson, Missouri.

Police Chief Tom Jackson found that out the hard way last night. Jackson released this video early Thursday apologizing to the Brown family for his department's actions after Brown's shooting in August. And then hours later, he decided to stroll through the Ferguson community to address the crowds and take questions from protesters.

Well, as you can see, that did not go over very well. And it led to chaos and arrests. Here's more of how that played out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop pushing us.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was a bad idea. It really was. Bad idea.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are you pushing? (SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have to stop that.

(SHOUTING)

THOMAS JACKSON, FERGUSON, MISSOURI, POLICE CHIEF: All I got to say is, this is a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) tragedy. We all know that.

And I'm sorry. And I said that from my heart. You don't have to accept that. You don't have to accept that. That came from my heart. I had to get off -- that my chest. It's been sitting there for two months. OK?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why? Why two months? Why two months?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know. I know it was.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: CNN's Stephanie Elam joins us now from Ferguson.

Stephanie, why?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Why go out there? Is that your question?

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Why?

ELAM: That's the question a lot of people have, Don?

Why go out there at all. About whether or not this was a good idea, you could argue that. Some are saying at least he tried. Others are saying too little too late. It's two months later. Why are you just now coming out to apologize?

One thing that is the takeaway from all of this is, is that he's saying, look, I couldn't apologize right away because we were still in the midst of this investigation, all that was going on. I have wanted to from the beginning. This is the first time that I got the chance to.

But, as you can see, the entire situation just devolved last night, because there's many people on the street who were calling for the chief to resign in light of what has happened here. And he was saying, I'm trying to talk to you guys. If you listen to the whole thing, he's like, let's just have a conversation.

And people were saying, why don't you take a change of pace here and listen to me? Not exactly the way I'm sure that they wanted this alleged apology tour to go. It started off that way, but it didn't end that way.

LEMON: Yes.

Well, the thing is, is that, you know -- and you have met the chief. He's, you know, a nice enough guy. He's not a city slicker. That's the best way of putting it. But one wonders why he would -- why he would just go out and do that, because what people really want now is an indictment -- or most of the people, the protesters -- an indictment and an arrest.

And they want an apology on top of that. But that was the small part of it. Can you talk to us about this controversy unfolding about the man overseeing the public relations for Ferguson and the man who allegedly was the brainchild behind the apology video? What happened?

ELAM: Yes. And I spoke with him at length today. And he said he was behind that.

His name is Devin James. And he was brought in actually by the Saint Louis County -- an economic development partnership.

And he moved on to do P.R. for Ferguson. He was already working with the partnership before all of this happened, before Mike Brown was killed.