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Airstrikes Enough To Destroy ISIS?; Fighting ISIS: After The Airstrikes; Impact Of ISIS On U.S. Midterm Elections; Thousands Of Tips, But No Sign Of Missing Student; Reporter: UVA Suspect Called A "Prowler"; Dunn Murder Retrial Under Way

Aired September 27, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Much more straight ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM and it all begins right now.

Hello, again, everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Here are the top stories we're following in the CNN NEWSROOM. A gruesome beheading in an Oklahoma company. New details emerging about the alleged suspect and why the FBI is now getting involved.

And no end yet to a nightmare of travel. More flight cancellations leaving passengers stranded. This as we learn more about the man police say set a fire in an air traffic control center.

And a big announcement from the Clintons. The former president and former secretary of state have one little reason to celebrate big.

All right. We begin with more flight delays and cancellations for thousands of travelers. A fire at a major air traffic control center outside Chicago yesterday triggered a ripple effect of flight cancellations across the country. The FAA is still working to get all the planes back in the air.

Diane Pathieu of CNN affiliate WLS joins us now from Chicago. So what is the latest?

DIANE PATHIEU, REPORTER, WLS TV: It is an absolute mess, Fredricka. Good afternoon too you. You know, usually, O'Hare on Saturday is pretty busy, but O'Hare and Midway, both major airports here in the Chicagoland area, operating at what they're calling a reduced rate.

And that's because of everything that happened yesterday at the FAA facility in Aurora, which is in the Chicagoland area. Let me give you an update about what happened here at O'Hare today, 600 flights here at O'Hare, 24 flights out at Midway, proactively canceled because of everything that's been going on.

This is the residual delay, of course, after that incident at the FAA facility. The line of passengers just poured from inside at the ticket counter, all the way outside, and at Midway, they canceled 450 flights, leaving so many people stranded with nothing else to do.

And this morning, new passengers came here to O'Hare, only to find out that their scheduled flights have also been canceled today, with nothing to do but wait. Some people just slept at the airport, waited here at the airport.

Some decided to do something else and kind of get a car and drive to wherever they need to go. So we should tell you, the FAA, we did get an update. They call this a fluid situation. They're advising all passengers to call ahead. Fredricka, back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right, a real nightmare there for folks there. Diane Pathieu, thank you so much, as investigators continue to intensify their look into why and how this happened.

All right. Onto Oklahoma now, police say this man, Alton Nolan, beheaded a co-worker and injured another, before being shot and wounded. Nolan had just been fired by the company where the attack happened.

And now the FBI is investigating whether he had any ties to radical extremism. According to police, he had converted to Islam and was also encouraging co-workers to convert.

CNN has learned that British fighter jets have been sent to Iraq. This is a look at the type of combat jet that is flying over the country and it's in a position to attack when targets are identified. The jet has a top speed of almost 115 miles an hour and is equipped with cruise missiles.

These British jets are flying just one day after a vote in the British parliament, allowing for air strikes in Iraq but not in Syria. And they are joining America and its Arab partners, who have been bombing ISIS from the air and sea.

Despite the bombing, militants are still putting up a fierce fight. So will it take more than just airstrikes to destroy ISIS? Let's bring in retired Navy Commander Kirk Lippold in Washington.

So you commanded the "USS Cole" when it came under attack in Yemen by al Qaeda. You know how important air cover can be in winning a fight. Is it your view that these airstrikes alone can defeat ISIS?

COMMANDER KIRK LIPPOLD, U.S. NAVY (RET.): Well, Fredricka, I think you hit on a key point. Air cover is essential to have when you are trying to defeat an enemy. Airstrikes alone will not do it.

WHITFIELD: What's it going to take in your view then?

LIPPOLD: Well, right now I think we've been assessing over the last few days and according to my sources, when you looked at what we have been able to hit and how effectively we've been able to degrade ISIS, the bottom line is, we have not been as effective as we thought we would be.

Immediately after the strike started, they changed their communications security, their operational security, their pattern of doing business, they dispersed into smaller groups. We are now using very precise weapons to take out very small targets, and it is not being as good as we thought it would be. So consequently, while the airstrikes will continue and we will continue to degrade them, I think that unless we get a larger and more robust response, either in the air or with our Arab partners leading the way, to start the ground war that is going to be necessary at some point, we're going to continue to not be able to stand up to ISIS, and they're going to continue to represent that existential threat here at home.

WHITFIELD: So when you say "not good as we thought it was going to be," what was the expectation, if not the results we're seeing?

LIPPOLD: That's an excellent question. I think the battle damage assessment initially showed that we were hitting the targets we need to. But as always, it's not just hitting the target. It's then waiting to see, what is their regeneration capability? How quickly were they able to come back up?

Communicate with their forces in field. Maintain central control of the quasi-government that they have established. Being able to maintain the flow of funds and arms into the region, into Raqqa and elsewhere.

That shows that in fact they're an effective fighting force. They're not the junior varsity team. This is, in fact, a very disciplined, professional group that are showing their capabilities right now.

WHITFIELD: So are you surprised by their regeneration, you know, capabilities, as you put it or was there a pretty strong feeling that its network was very sophisticated and would be able to rebound in the way it is?

LIPPOLD: I think like a lot of people, I'm actually surprised at how well they've been able to regenerate some of their capabilities. They, in fact, have shown that they are robust, they're more diverse, they have a better capability to recreate forces, to re-establish those lines of communication to forces in the field.

And I think this is what's going to be very problematic for us, as we move forward, even with a growing coalition of people to help, and thankfully, Great Britain has now joined in that fight as well.

WHITFIELD: Is it your feeling or are you in agreement with some analysts who say, if it comes down to ground forces, which many feel, inevitably, there has to be such to support, like you said, the airstrikes that have taken place, is it your feeling that it should be led by Arab nations, or perhaps even only involve Arab nations in terms of ground troops?

LIPPOLD: I think if you were to look at this in a regional perspective, it has to be led by the Arab forces. While we can be there to provide some training, some guidance, some backup for them if necessary, give them some of the tools that they're going to need, they, alone, are in the first line and the first threat.

I mean, look at one of our principle NATO allies, Turkey. While they are doing many things for us very quietly, they are right there on the border with ISIS. And clearly, they may not want to be seen as aggravating the problem to create issues with their own country right now, but they are being a tremendous help to us.

Other countries that are there, they are going to have to lead this fight. And while eventually we may need to become involved or probably will have to become involved with boots on the ground, the Arab forces in the region need to do it first. Otherwise, it will continue to expand and become more of an international problem.

WHITFIELD: All right, Retired Navy Commander Kirk Lippold, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it.

LIPPOLD: Thank you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, coming up, the suspect in the disappearance of Hannah Graham is in a Virginia jail today, but there's still no signs of the young girl. Why realtors are now being asked to get involved in this search.

And, U.S. military leaders say airstrikes alone won't defeat ISIS. You just heard from one, a former retired Navy commander. Next, CNN's Fareed Zakaria tells me why the U.S. should be leading from behind when it comes to ground troops.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The U.S.-led coalition continued to hit ISIS with airstrikes in Iraq and Syria. U.S. military leaders can see that airstrikes alone won't be enough to defeat ISIS.

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff says the best mix of ground forces to fight ISIS are Iraqi's Kurds and moderate Syrian rebels. But he told my colleague, Jim Sciutto, he is not ruling out U.S. boots on the ground if necessary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I'm not talking about a large presence, I'm talking about, for instance, helping in targeting, targeting airstrikes, or forward deployed advisers. Are those specific missions that you might ask the president for U.S. forces?

GENERAL MARTIN DEMPSEY, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: I -- I will -- I just stand by the statement. I will make a recommendation -- I haven't -- the president gave me a mission, destroy ISIL. And I will recommend to him what it takes to destroy ISIL.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Fareed Zakaria, host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" tells me ground forces from Arab nations are key.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, CNN'S "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": What is lacking in this campaign is ground forces that can stay there, so that, you know, ground forces that will be there, will be around in case -- you know, because there's going to be a lot of back and forth here.

And the great danger with an expeditionary force from the United States or NATO or whatever it is, one day you've got to go back. Turkey is right there, right there on the border, a very powerful army and a good air force as well.

So if you imagine an American air operation or an allied air operation, including these states like Saudi Arabia, but then a Turkish ground operation, that would be a very powerful one-two punch. And it's just what militarily the coalition needs right now.

The great gap is a lack of an effective ground force. You've got good air power, you've probably now got good intelligence, good drones. But you have the weak Iraqi army, you have the small Kurdish Peshmarga. What you need is a strong ground army, and that's what Turkey has.

WHITFIELD: And like in the U.S., there is concern in Great Britain about who would make up those ground forces. In fact, this is one British Member of Parliament.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE GALLOWAY, LABOUR MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: If there's a consensus in here that we're going to soon be bombing Syria, the words don't mention boots on the ground, but there's a consensus here, that there will be boots on the ground. The only question, the only question being, whose boots are they?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And is it your view, when it comes down to ground forces, that it will be most important to be involving Arab states, the neighbors in that jurisdiction more so than to have U.S. ground forces or British ground forces?

ZAKARIA: I think that the lesson of Iraq surely is that when you introduce large number of foreign forces, particularly forces from the United States or the United Kingdom or Poland or wherever it is, these forces are foreign and they're seen as alien.

And they produce some good results on the ground militarily, but they also come with a -- they also produce a whole host of political problems, which is that it's tough for locals to ally with these foreign forces. They -- it's viewed as an occupation force.

You know, we saw the whole political dynamic of that in Iraq. So, yes, it would be much, much better if you could have, first of all, locals, Syrians, Iraqis, and in the second order, if you could neighbors, in many cases, you know, the Turks have relations with the Kurds across the border in Syria.

So there is a long-standing historical connection. The tribes in Iraq are often related to the tribes in Syria. The border is somewhat artificial. So if you have Iraqi tribes helping their brethren in Syria, that's a much more effective operation than having, you know, American kids from Kansas go in there without much knowledge of the local landscape, custom, and are seen as a kind of alien perhaps occupying force.

WHITFIELD: And still seemingly a work in progress is that post-strike strategy. Is that worrisome to you or is that just simply the way it goes?

ZAKARIA: No, I worry about this. I think that we do not have a political strategy here. We have a military strategy, but what is going to happen after these bombs? After this phase is over? We always do well in the air phase of the campaign. Think about Afghanistan, think about Iraq, think about Libya.

This part always goes well. The American air power is amazing. But what we know is, think of Afghanistan, think of Iraq, think of Libya. After that is a very messy period. The ground operation involves irregular fighting with locals, guerrilla warfare, a holding territory.

It involves political deals because you've got to get the locals on your side. You've got to win the hearts and minds. And for all of that, I don't think we have really thought through the strategy.

The Iraqi government is not inclusive enough. There aren't really Syrian moderates who are strong enough. How those problems are going to be involved remains something of a mystery to me.

WHITFIELD: Fareed, thanks so much.

ZAKARIA: Always a pleasure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And a big announcement! Why the former U.S. secretary of state has a new reason to celebrate.

But first, according to the USDA, it takes nearly $250,000 to raise a child. And that's just for the basics. This week's CNN Hero is helping ease some of the burden for moms in New Jersey.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love being a mom. It's the most rewarding thing I've ever experienced. On the flip side, the financial burden of having a child is just tremendous. So many people have such an abundance and so many others strive to afford even the basics.

Who wants to water? I remember reading an article and it was about a mother who decided to give her child up for adoption because she couldn't stand to hear her crying from hunger.

Here is your baby book. I just thought that no mother should ever be faced with that choice. That is when I decided I needed to do something. I started to collect excess baby gear and that was when moms helping moms was born.

Boys clothes are to the right, girl's clothes are to the left. We have drives at our storage space. We like to call them shopping days because they are essentially shopping, they're just not paying anything for it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is really cool.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're awesome.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've been out of work for about ten months. Clothes, diapers, and wipes, they're a constant expense.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are just great, just take one more.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was hard to just afford the things I need for my kids without an income. Thank God. But the things I got today will allow me to put that money towards my rent or my bills.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every child deserves a fair start and if what we're doing helps bridge the gap between people from different backgrounds, even in a small way, then it's definitely worth all the hard work.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, some big news for Bill and Hillary Clinton. They now have a granddaughter. Chelsea Clinton tweeted the good news this morning, announcing the birth of her new baby girl with husband, Mark Mezvinsky, saying this.

"Marc and I are full of love, awe, and gratitude as we celebrate the birth of our daughter, Charlotte Clinton Mezvinsky." No baby pictures yet, but of course, when we get them, we'll post them.

All right, the fight against ISIS could become an issue with American voters next month. CNN's Suzanne Malveaux takes a look at how it's affecting America's choice in 2014.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In competitive races across the country, Republicans are seizing on national security as their weapon of choice to defeat their Democratic opponents.

ANNOUNCER: These are serious times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a very unstable world out there.

ANNOUNCER: A world in chaos and Obama's answer is weakness.

MALVEAUX: Nowhere is that more obvious than in New Hampshire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's starting to feel like the world is on fire. MALVEAUX: Republican challenger, Scott Brown, is using the war on ISIS to try to take down his opponent, the incumbent senator and former governor, Jeanne Shaheen.

SCOTT BROWN (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE SENATE CANDIDATE: Now, I'm not sure she realizes even now the disastrous consequences of complete military withdrawal.

MALVEAUX: At a carefully orchestrated campaign event in Manchester, Brown echoed attacks he recently unleashed in his ads.

BROWN: President Obama and Senator Shaheen seem confused about the nature of the threat. Not me.

MALVEAUX: Shaheen, despite a 54 percent favorability rating and deep ties to the state, finds herself locked in a dead heat with Brown, who moved to New Hampshire last year, after losing his own Senate race in Massachusetts.

BROWN: And I yield the floor.

SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN (D), NEW HAMPSHIRE: Well, of course he doesn't want to talk about state issues because he doesn't know about state issues.

MALVEAUX: Brown's national security strategy appears to be paying off. The threat of ISIS is especially personal to New Hampshire voters, because the two American journalists who were beheaded by is have ties to the granite state.

Steven Sotloff attended a boarding school and James Foley grew up in Rochester. Shaheen, who sits on both the foreign relations and armed services committees, accuses Brown of fear mongering.

SHAHEEN: He's certainly grandstanding for political purposes, and this is a time when that's not helpful.

MALVEAUX (on camera): Can you respond to your opponent, who says you're using this war for a political gain?

BROWN: I'm going to let my comments speak for itself.

MALVEAUX: Can you respond to your opponent, as well, who says you don't have a record in New Hampshire to run on?

(voice-over): So far, Brown appears far more eager to nationalize the election, portraying Shaheen and President Obama, who has a 60 percent disapproval rate here, as one and the same.

BROWN: She has a record that can be readily summed up in one single number -- 99, 99 percent. That's how often Senator Shaheen votes in support of any policy of the Obama administration, whatever it is.

SHAHEEN: Scott Brown is just wrong and he's not running against the president. He's running against me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: I talked to voters in New Hampshire, many who do say that ISIS and national security are concerns and they want a change from Shaheen. But just as many voters also say they want good jobs, higher pay, and local security. The ability just to walk home at night.

But what was overwhelming, the number of voters who were suspicious of Scott Brown for moving from Massachusetts to run in New Hampshire. Seen by many as opportunistic. Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, Washington.

WHITFIELD: And still ahead, where in the world is Kim Jong-Un? The mystery about the missing North Korean dictator may have been solved.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Bottom of the hour now. Welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Here are five things crossing the CNN news desk right now you need to know.

Four college students are dead after an 18-wheeler crashed into their bus on Interstate 35 in Oklahoma. The North Central Texas College women's softball team was heading back to campus after a game when investigators say a semi swerved, crossed the median, and slammed into the bus. Eleven others, including the truck driver, were hospitalized.

A former Montana high school teacher convicted of raping a student was resentenced Friday to nearly ten years in prison. You may recall the original judge came under fire for only giving Stacy Rambolt a 31-day sentence and making it seem like to the victim, a student this her class, was to blame for the attack. The victim later committed suicide.

And North Korea's leader hasn't been seen in public for three weeks, even missing a key meeting on Thursday. State TV reports Kim Jong-Un is suffering from discomfort. No more specifics are being given.

All right, now to Venice, Italy, where excitement over George Clooney's upcoming wedding is growing. Clooney and his fiancee were spotted cruising on Venice's canals yesterday. Details of the wedding are being kept under wraps, but Venice authorities issued a notice that the city hall area will be closed for two hours on Monday, presumably for the civil ceremony.

And in the last hour, the U.S. Central Command just gave the latest details on coalition airstrikes against ISIS in Syria and Iraq. A total of ten airstrikes took place Friday and today.

And one of the areas targeted is at the Syrian Turkish border near the town of Kobani. CNN brought you exclusive images of fire fights there between ISIS and Syrian Kurds.

Centcom says the fights destroyed at least six armored vehicles, multiple buildings and damaged an ISIS command and control facility. The U.S. believes there are about a dozen militants fighting in Syria. And there are concerns that they could return home to launch attacks. CNN national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem joins us now from Massachusetts. Since airstrikes began, ISIS has been using social media to recruit Americans and others to be so-called lone wolves in home countries. How seriously should this be taken in your view?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think the American government views it very seriously and there's two types of people that they're concerned with. One is that the people that get motivated to actually leave the country, go abroad, get trained, and then come back easily with American passports.

And the other is harder to find. Those are the people who are sitting at home, maybe sociopathic, violent. They're looking for a cause and they find it in ISIS or al Qaeda and through social media. So very different types of threats, but both exist now, given just the nature of globalization.

WHITFIELD: And there was a U.N. resolution that was passed this week, calling for the restriction of travel of individuals who take part in terrorist training acts, those, I guess, who were caught doing so, the training. How effective might that be?

KAYYEM: It will be somewhat effective in the sense that once someone's on a particular nation's watch list, there will be sort of a global attempt to catch that person and make sure they don't get on flights. For people with U.S. passports, we have a pretty good system.

It's not full proof in terms of assessing where they've been and then being able to ensure that when they come back in, lawfully, right, if they come back in through a legal border control, that they are caught.

So there are different pieces, but, look, I mean, at any given moment, there's a million plus people on airplanes around the world. And it's just, it's just the nature of commerce and globalization now that makes it hard to find that one person who might be planning ill will.

WHITFIELD: Right. In fact, you mentioned there are watch lists, but not all of them are going to be on watch lists. That's why they might be enticing to be part of, you know, a terrorist group, that they are much more elusive.

Capturing is going to be very difficult or thwarting, maybe even nearly impossible, if they, you know, have American or British passports. They don't need visas to travel to certain places.

Getting on a plane and being elusive and just blending in is going to be very easy. So how do U.S. intelligence, you know, agents, how do they go about trying to you know see the red flags or notice them or capture them?

KAYYEM: There's a number of different tools. Some come from the communities themselves, so there's a lot of outreach to communities of interest, diverse communities, immigrant communities, going on throughout major urban areas in the country. There is, of course, surveillance of social media and other means and then there are border controls. And each of them serves as a layer. None of them perfect. We certainly know that. But the good news, I guess, as regards lone wolf terrorists, is that their capacity to cause major harm is somewhat limited.

The bad news is, is because they're not affiliated with any group that we might be monitoring, they are hard to find beforehand. And that is why there is a combination of offense and defense that you see going on. The military action as well as fortifying the homeland.

WHITFIELD: All right. Juliette Kayyem, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

KAYYEM: Thank you. Have a good one.

WHITFIELD: All right, next, the suspect in the disappearance of UVA student Hannah Graham is sitting in a Virginia jail today, but still no sign of Hannah. Our legal guys weigh in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Overwhelming support today in the search for missing University of Virginia student. Folks from the Charlottesville community are flocking to a call center to take tips that could lead to Hannah Graham's location. She vanished two weeks ago.

Police say they have received more than 2,400 tips and want the calls to keep coming in. Realtors are also stepping up, searching vacant homes for Graham.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SABINA HARVEY, REALTOR: All of us have these vacant listings, and I don't have any farm properties, but there are still some corners around here that someone could hide something. So I came up here just to look around. We're all just trying to find her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Meanwhile, the prime suspect in her disappearance, Jesse Matthew, is being held in isolation in a Virginia jail. Matthew was extradited overnight from Texas. He is charged with abduction with the intent to defile.

Let's bring in our legal guys, Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor, joining us from Cleveland. Good to see you again, and Richard Herman in New York, criminal defense attorney and law professor joining us from Las Vegas today. Good to see you.

So Richard, this intent to defile, what kind of physical evidence would there have to have been in order to charge Jesse Matthew. Even though we've heard from the authorities that they haven't received the results yet from the forensic exams or at least they haven't made them public. RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, it's a big difference there. I think that they have the results, and that's only way they possibly could have charged this particular aspect of the statute, Fred. It brings a 20-year-to-life sentence for the second-degree felony conviction.

But here, they must prove a kidnapping with an intent to have some sort of sexual component involved with the kidnapping. And because it's a circumstantial case right now, they're going to need either eyewitness testimony, a confession, or DNA.

And the DNA is going to come from his apartment. They're going to look for torn clothing, blood, anything they can find in that apartment to suggest that there was non-voluntary sex. Not voluntary, non, and we know that -- people say that she was intoxicated that night.

They have her at a bar with him plying her with drinks. So the question is, OK, did she have the ability to say yes or no? But what happened in his apartment? That's the whole focus right now, Fred. That's the key to this case.

WHITFIELD: And then Avery, clearly evidence for -- you know, the results of this forensic evidence, all of this will be very important. But are investigators at a stage now that they're even thinking about, as they question him, could they be offering a plea in exchange for more information?

FRIEDMAN: Well, I think that's going to be part of the -- from the prosecution's perspective, that's exactly where law enforcement's going to go because we're dealing with more, in my judgment, than a kidnapping. -- I mean, Jesse Matthew has enormous problems.

And frankly if I were prosecuting this case, between the credit cards and the statement by the owners of Temple Bar that Hannah could barely stand up. And why in the world is Jesse Matthew 1,300 miles away on Galveston Bay?

Well, I think we all know the answer to that. But ultimately, yes, if, ultimately, the defense team winds up being put together, it is not yet -- the first thing they're going to be doing is talking with prosecutors and saying, what kind of deal can we put together?

And I think the prosecutors will say, we want to go forward with both kidnappings, and maybe something even more.

WHITFIELD: When you say, he has enormous problems, Avery, are you speaking because he ended up in Texas and that seems suspicious, or is there more to that?

FRIEDMAN: Well, what kind of inferences are you going to draw from -- a guy grabbing his sister's 1997 Blue Nissan and heading out towards Galveston Bay, probably on his way to Mexico. He's fleeing from the scene.

The fact is that the bar owner was saying that he was very aggressive towards women that night. And then he winds up with Hannah Graham, who could barely stand up. I think when you put all this evidence together, it's going to be overwhelming.

WHITFIELD: All right, go, Richard.

HERMAN: Fred, there is an issue here. They want to find the body. They need the body. So in order to get the body, that might be the impetus for some sort of paralegal here. They need to see the body.

But the evidence that he took off and went to Galveston, that's evidence of flight. And that would be admissible, that the jury could draw an inference on. But intent in this case is a very big hurdle to prove, Fred. I was going to call you judge.

Very big hurdle to prove and in the community and in his church, he's known as a gentle giant. This is a very defensible case right now on the charges he's brought against him. The DNA evidence, though, will be the key to where it's going.

WHITFIELD: How much longer will that take? It seems a week out now from when we heard from the police chief who said, there was a collection of evidence from his -- Jesse Matthew's vehicle and apartment, and it would seem that more would be shared or would they be reticent to share that publicly, because, you know, they don't want to --

FRIEDMAN: They're sharing nothing. They're sharing nothing.

WHITFIELD: We're seeing that. All right. Avery, Richard, thanks so much. We'll see you again, that other case in which to delve into. We'll be talking about a court being underway right now in Florida, for a retrial of the man accused in that so-called loud music murder. Why prosecutors are trying to convict Michael Dunn again.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Court is in session in Jacksonville, Florida, where the retrial of Michael Dunn is underway. It's the second time Dunn is on trial for the shooting death of 17-year-old Jordan Davis back in 2012.

Well, the case was dubbed the loud music trial, because Davis was playing music in his car. And Dunn has already been convicted in connection with the shooting, so why the retrial? Here's CNN's Alina Machado.

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fred, this case is move along at a fast case, especially after the judge says he intends to have this wrapped up faster than the first trial, which lasted about two weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MACHADO: The Michael Dunn retrial on a first-degree murder charge is in full swing. Already, jurors have heard from more than a dozen witnesses, including Devon Thompson, Leland Brunson, and Tommy Storns, the three teens with Jordan Davis the night he was killed. The jury of eight men and four women includes two African-Americans. Earlier this year, another jury convicted Dunn on three counts of attempted second-degree murder and shooting into a vehicle, but could not agree on whether Dunn was guilty of murder.

JUDGE RUSSELL HEALEY, DUVAL COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: Based on the jury's inability to reach a verdict as to count one, I will declare that mistried.

MACHADO: Davis was shot and killed outside a Jacksonville gas station almost two years ago, when an argument over loud music turned violent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My gosh, somebody's shooting! Somebody's shooting out of their car.

MACHADO: Dunn fired into this red Dodge Durango, which had Davis and three others inside. In the first trial, Dunn testified that he feared for his life and thought Davis had a gun.

MICHAEL DUNN, DEFENDANT: I was looking out the window and said, you're not going to kill me, you son of a -- and I shot.

MACHADO: No weapon was ever found in the SUV. Dunn is facing a minimum of 60 years in prison for the previous convictions. Davis' parents are hoping the second trial will end with a verdict on the murder charge, so they can start healing.

RON DAVIS, JORDAN'S FATHER: No matter what happens to Michael Dunn, whether it's a hung jury or whatever, I still have that loss, that's greater than any other verdict.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACHADO: Testimony is expected to continue for a few more hours, and at this point, we don't know if Michael Dunn will be taking the stand again in his own defense, but we could soon find out, because if things keep going the way they're going, the state could be resting, as early as today -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Alina Machado. Right now they're in lunch break and then will resume this very unusual day of court there on this Saturday there in Florida.

So for more, let's bring back our legal guys, Avery Friedman in Cleveland and Richard Herman in Las Vegas. OK, so Richard, you first, you know, he will be sentenced.

He's still facing up to 60 years for those lesser offenses, the convictions. But why is the prosecution trying him again for premeditated murder? What's different this time?

HERMAN: Well, it's Angela Corey. Remember our old friend from Florida, who likes to bring these politically motivated prosecutions --

FRIEDMAN: Come on, come on. HERMAN: She was the one on Zimmerman and she's licking her wounds from Zimmerman. So here the guy is 47 years old, convicted, looking at 60 years, and yet she wants to go after him for second-degree murder, which was hung jury the first time, three jurors held out then.

They're going to try to prove it now. It's going to be difficult to prove the premeditation element in this case -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Why?

HERMAN: Because they don't have -- it's premeditated here. The difference in this trial from the defense perspective, and I do believe Dunn will testify, I think he has to testify, because it's what was in his mind, what was his perception of what was happening.

Don't forget, Florida has a stand your ground law, so if he had a reasonable perception that he was going to -- that the other person had a gun and was going to shoot him, he had a right to defend himself. The first case argued there was definitely a gun and they hid the gun and the evidence came out there was no gun.

FRIEDMAN: The jury didn't buy it.

HERMAN: Because there was no gun. But here, it's the perception of whether or not there was a gun or not. That's all they need to prove on the defense. The problem is, the bombshell here, the smoking gun, in this case, is the girlfriend who testified against Dunn --

FRIEDMAN: Rhonda Rule.

HERMAN: Who said, wherever he gave me renditions of the story, he never mentioned anything about a gun.

WHITFIELD: So Avery, I wonder, when we saw his testimony from the last trial, where he said, you know, you're not going to kill me, and he turned pointed the gun, when he pointed the gun, doesn't that show premeditation?

You're intending to bring harm. And is that what prosecutors are going to try to argue, that's what they mean by premeditated murder, that he intended for this gun to point at these kids and he intended to pull the trigger, which means he intended to harm if not kill?

FRIEDMAN: Yes, I mean, that is the whole case. In fact, he actually reached into the glove box to get that revolver, that silver revolver. And frankly, a lot of people didn't predict he would testify. Actually, I'm in agreement.

Not only did he testify in the first case, he's going to have to testify because the evidence are so overwhelming, and I also agree. The girlfriend's testimony that Michael Dunn never said anything, I totally disagree.

I don't think this is politically motivated at all. I think this is exactly the principled, moral thing that the state should be doing in this prosecution. And frankly, they're going to get that conviction this time around.

WHITFIELD: You do?

FRIEDMAN: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Even though the evidence is the same, testimony is the same.

FRIEDMAN: Yes, there were a couple of rogue juries, and that's why there was a hung jury and that's why we're going to see, I think, a conviction this time.

WHITFIELD: The jury makeup makes a difference in your view then?

FRIEDMAN: Sure it does.

HERMAN: More of a diversified jury the first time. Now you have ten white people on this jury. I think he -- you know, he's going to get a conviction this time around either. I think this juror is more --

FRIEDMAN: Well, if race makes the difference, Richard's right. If race doesn't make a difference --

HERMAN: Doesn't it make a difference, really, in the end?

FRIEDMAN: It shouldn't.

HERMAN: But that's different than whether it does or not, whether it should. I agree with you.

WHITFIELD: OK. Richard, Avery -- I'll put my judge hat on. Richard, Avery, thanks so much, guys. Appreciate it. Always a pleasure to see you and hear from you.

Our legal guys are here every Saturday about this time, giving us their take on the most intriguing cases of the day, week, month, you name it. They're always on the spot. Thanks so much.

Coming up at the top of the hour, an up close look at just how the U.S. military carries out these airstrikes on ISIS. Becky Anderson takes us on board the "USS Bush."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Some might say it's kind of like royal Hollywood kind of wedding, but it's taking place in Italy. One of the most eligible bachelors now about to be off the hook and there the groom, waving to everyone. George Clooney. Yes, they're in Venice. How romantic. Everyone arriving by boat.

And you see the paparazzi there too. So apparently, he is on his way to the special location, where all of Hollywood and some of the world's most glamorous people. You've seen some of the pictures, Anna Wintour, "Vogue" magazine, you saw Andy Gruber and his wife, Cindy Crawford. So George Clooney is to marry (inaudible), a British human rights attorney. They're marrying in Italy, but it will be a very special kind of civil ceremony, because neither one of them are Italian. So it won't be your typical Italian wedding, but it still will be considered official.

And you see that groom, George Clooney, he's smiling and grinning from ear to ear. So many people thought he would be a bachelor for life, because he just didn't seem to want to tie the knot with all those special babes he's had along the way, but this one is the special catch, Amalla Almuddin.

I know I'm not saying her last name right, but it's going to be a striking ceremony. It's starting out beautifully. Who else gets to arrive by boat in Venice for such a special occasion. So many congrats on their nuptials. We'll bring you more pictures as we get them.