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Obama Admits Underestimating ISIS; ISIS Defector, Active Fighter Speaking on ISIS; Protests Block Streets in Hong Kong's Financial District

Aired September 29, 2014 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: That is on my list this morning, right after the show. Thanks, guys, Nice to see you.

NEWSROOM starts right now.

Good morning everyone. I'm Randi Kaye. Sitting in today for Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining me.

As President Obama and his international coalition strike ISIS stronghold inside Iraq and Syria, even the commander-in-chief now admits the terror group was more powerful than they first believed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I think our head of the intelligence community, Jim Clapper, has acknowledged that -- I think they underestimated what had been taking place in Syria.

STEVE KROFT, CBS' "60 MINUTES": I mean, he didn't say that -- just say that we underestimated ISIL. He said we overestimated the ability and the will of our allies, the Iraqi Army, to fight.

OBAMA: That's true. That's absolutely true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: That was the president last night on "60 Minutes" placing the blame for ISIS' unexpected growth right on shoulders of his director of National Intelligence, James Clapper. You'll remember it was Clapper who told the "Washington Post" earlier this month, quote, "We underestimated ISIL and overestimated the fighting capability of the Iraqi Army. I didn't see the collapse of the Iraqi Security Force in the north coming. I didn't see it."

White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski joining us now with reaction to this.

Michelle, what do you have for us?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Randi. Right. Remarkable to hear the president say that, that yes, the U.S. absolutely underestimated things on the one hand and overestimated things on the other. What he didn't explain was how and why exactly that was able to happen, what led up to that? And now that's only contributing to plenty of concern now about the current assessments that are guiding the U.S. response to ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI (voice-over): Speaking on CBS' "60 Minutes," President Obama acknowledging what the U.S. head of intelligence has said that the government absolutely underestimated ISIS.

OBAMA: They were able to reconstitute themselves and take advantage of that chaos and attract foreign fighters who believed in their jihadist nonsense and traveled everywhere from Europe, to United States, to Australia, to other parts of the Muslim world converging on Syria.

KOSINSKI: The U.S. and Arab allies continue hitting ISIS from the air in both Syria and Iraq through the weekend. ISIS still managed an advance in Syria near the Turkish border. Yet Turkey is still not a military partner in this fight. Some European countries have joined the coalition but won't touch Syria. The U.S. is still leading this.

OBAMA: That's always the case. America leads. We are the indispensable nation. We have capacity no one else has. Our military is the best in the history of the world, and when trouble comes up anywhere in the world, they don't call Beijing, they don't call Moscow, they call us. That's how we roll. And that's what makes us America.

KOSINSKI: So how do Americans feel about this? A new CNN/ORC poll released just this morning shows 73 percent approved the airstrikes. But about the same amount feel the U.S. will likely have to send ground troops and fewer, 61 percent, are confident the U.S. will succeed in its goal of degrading and destroying ISIS.

There was bipartisan support for the mission, but now bipartisan concern over what the end game will look like, whether Congress should have debated and voted on the plan, whether U.S. boots will end up on that volatile ground if no one else steps up.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: We have no choice. These are barbarians. They intend to kill us. If we don't destroy them first, we're going to pay the price.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: A couple of other interesting things came up out of that poll. That now we're seeing more Americans than we did just a few weeks ago say that they approve of the way things are going in this country and the way President Obama is handling ISIS. But those numbers are still really low, less than half. And just slightly more than half of Americans now, 51 percent, say they don't trust President Obama as commander-in-chief -- Randi.

KAYE: Michelle Kosinski, thank you very much there from the White House. President Obama's interview on "60 Minutes" is not sitting well with

some. One former senior Pentagon official who worked closely on the threat posed by Sunni jihadist in Iraq and Syria told the "Daily Beast" this, quote, "Either the president doesn't read the intelligence he's getting or he's BS'ing."

John Avlon is a CNN political analyst and the editor-in-chief of the "Daily Beast."

Good morning to you, John. That's a -- quite a statement, wouldn't you say?

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Randi. It is quite a statement from a senior former Pentagon official. Really saying that the president's statements about not having -- got been warned by his intelligence community simply isn't true. And indeed the article does lay out that in the world wide threat assessment and senior administration officials on the record from John Brennan to Democratic senators like Dianne Feinstein were warning and worried about ISIS in the beginning of the year because after all they'd already taken Fallujah and Ramadi by January so the idea that they suddenly snuck up on us isn't quite the case.

KAYE: I want to talk to you about the CNN/ORC polls also that were just released this morning. Six out of 10 say the United States is not at war with ISIS despite military action. Does that surprise you?

AVLON: No. The question -- it reflects, I think, the essential ambiguity of fighting terror organizations. You know, we are in a military conflict with ISIS. We're trying to degrade and ultimately destroy them. But what the question really reflects is that this opaque nature of war in the 21st century against non-state actors, I mean, ISIS may call themselves a state, but it's essentially a non state entity of trying to re-establish a caliphate along the jihadist lines.

So there's an ambiguity that I think is reflected in the poll. People understand that we are in a conflict with them. But it's not a conventional war in the way that we understood it in the 20th century.

KAYE: Yes. Even when "60 Minutes" pressed the president on it last night, he said we're on a war environment. He never actually said we are at war.

But when it comes to ground troops, six out of 10 don't support U.S. -- ground troops against ISIS. But three quarters think that the U.S. will eventually send those ground troops to fight. Seems like a majority think that this is going to get worse before it gets any better.

AVLON: Yes, which is -- probably speaks to the wisdom of the American people. I think what they reflect essentially is what John Boehner said in that interview, that at some point there are going to have to be boots on the ground, whether they're special forces, whether hopefully be Iraqi Army who can step up and do what they should have done in the first place. But there's a lot you can do from the air, there's things you can do

with special forces, but ultimately they need to be pushed back on the ground one way or the other. I think it's really a reflection of that reality.

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: John Avlon --

AVLON: This is going to be a long conflict.

KAYE: It certainly will be. It certainly sounds that way.

John, nice to see you, thank you.

For the first time the Pentagon says it hit targets in a Kurdish area of Syria that was under siege by ISIS. Fierce battles have been raging between Kurdish forces and ISIS. Just inside Turkey's border, crowds of Kurdish civilians gather on the hillside to watch as the fighting unfolds across the Syrian border. You can hear the cheering as artillery fire starts to pummel ISIS fighters.

CNN's Arwa Damon is at the Turkey-Syria border with an exclusive look inside the minds of ISIS fighters.

Arwa, what have you found?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Randi. Well, before we get to that, just a quick update because no one at this stage on this side of the border is cheering.

What we saw earlier today was crowds of mostly Turkish Kurds who were gathered here watching what is happening to their Syrian brothers inside as they describe it. There has been some mortar fire inside. We've been hearing heavy machine gunfire but then as the crowds are gathering here watching what's happening, the Turkish Security Forces came through and told them to move back and then use tear gas to disperse them.

People here absolutely enraged not just to authorities for using those methods to try to disperse the crowds but also because they say they are not coming to the aid. These international coalition led by the U.S. is not coming to aid of those -- those Kurds, sorry, who are inside Syria trying to keep ISIS at bay. An organization that continues to gain territory.

Now we did exclusively speak to two individuals who provide some very valuable insight into how the organization recruits and operates.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAMON (voice-over): When coalition airstrikes blasted the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa, Abu Omar saw a target of opportunity. He called the only person he could trust.

ABU OMAR, ISIS DEFECTOR (Through Translator): He was a relative. He was always telling me to defect.

DAMON: Defect from ISIS. Abu Omar shaved his beard and crossed into Turkey, visibly anxious as we speak, now wanted by all sides. The organization he refers to as the Islamic State he tells us relies heavily on foreign fighters.

ABU OMAR (Through Translator): The French, they have so much control, they're even more extreme than we are. They come from France, but it's as if they've been a part of the Islamic State for years.

DAMON: And he says, ISIS was well-prepared for coalition airstrikes. Moving their fighters and equipment.

ABU OMAR (Through Translator): They almost entirely emptied out the headquarters. Some equipment they hid in civilian neighborhoods. Some they hid underground.

DAMON (on camera): We're interviewing Abu Talha by Skype. He's an ISIS fighter in Raqqa. But he won't speak directly to a woman so that's why Arab (ph) is asking the questions.

(Voice-over): Since the coalition airstrikes in Syria, he says, ISIS banned all communications from Raqqa. With permission from his emir, Abu Talha traveled closer to the border with Iraq to be able to access the Internet for this interview.

ABU TALHA, ISIS FIGHTER (Through Translator): We've been ready for this for some time. We know that our bases are known because they're tracking us with radars and satellites. So we had backup locations. They thought they knew everything. But thank God they don't know anything. And God willing, we will defeat the infidels.

DAMON: He says he was with the fighters who overran Mosul and that they knew how easy it would be to push out the Iraqi Army and seize their weapons and armor. Much of it American made.

ABU TALHA (Through Translator): This thing was all planned and prepared. There was nothing that was by chance. It was all organized.

DAMON: Abu Talha scoffed at the coalition strikes on the oil installations and other targets.

ABU TALHA (Through Translator): We, the Islamic State, we have revenue other than oil. We have other avenues and our finances are not going to stop just because of oil losses. They hit us in some areas and we advance in others. If we are pushed back in Iraq, we advance in northern Syria. These strikes cannot stop us, our support, or our fighters.

DAMON: For Abu Omar, the caliphate was a dream, one he still believes in, but not under ISIS, not like this.

ABU OMAR (Through Translator): I saw a 70-year-old sheik killed in front of me. The Islamic State can't continue like this. There are a lot of youth who are joining, 14, 15 years old. Maybe my voice can make them think again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DAMON: And Randi, one of the great concerns here is that as ISIS advances are not being halted by these coalition airstrikes that the town of Kobani will eventually fall. It is significant because if it does fall to ISIS, that means that the organization has a direct logistical supply route from its stronghold in Raqqa to the Turkish border. Plus it would serve to a certain degree the divide Turkish territory stretching across the northern part of Syria.

But then there's also the humanitarian cost of all of this. Upwards of 200,000 Syrian Kurds have fled to Turkey since ISIS took over this portion of the country in Syria in the last 10 days or so. People who are stuck inside Kobani in it of itself say that they have been out of water, electricity and that food supplies are running low.

KAYE: Arwa Damon, thank you so much. An incredible reporting from those ISIS fighters. Thank you.

Still to come, thousands of protesters flood the streets of Hong Kong despite pleas from police to disperse. They're demanding the Chinese government reverse course on new election rules.

And Ivan Watson is live in Hong Kong in the middle of that crowd.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Really remarkable scenes of just masses of humanity occupying downtown Hong Kong. The crowd has been singing these anthems, calling freedom here. You can see a constellation of cell phones waving in this sweltering night sky here. Blocking off, paralyzing downtown Hong Kong. And this has gone on now for more than 24 hours. The riot police have pulled back.

After the break. Well, you may lose this moment. OK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Hong Kong, where some 7 million residents enjoy many more freedoms than their countrymen in mainland China, has become ground zero now for clashes between police and thousands of pro-democracy protestors.

Incredible pictures there. The demonstrations formed in response to new election rules limiting who could run for the city's chief executive, pretty much eliminating anyone not approved by Beijing. For the first time in 10 years, Hong Kong police fired tear gas into the growing crowds saying protestors had, quote, "violently charged at police."

Some protestors had covered themselves in plastic wrap, umbrellas, and goggles to protect themselves from tear gas and pepper stray coming their way.

Ivan Watson live in Hong Kong in the middle of it all -- Ivan. IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Randi, there are pretty remarkable scenes here that I don't think any resident of Hong Kong ever imagined they would see. This downtown area, the highway that runs through the heart of Hong Kong completely carpeted with thousands and thousands of people. Most of them quite young like the women standing next to me. Eighteen-year-old university students here despite the fact their parents don't think it's a good idea. They think it's dangerous for them to be here.

The crowd ebullient is singing anthems to freedom by a pop band here known as Beyond, waving their cell phones in the air, their flashlights. It's created an incredible consolation scene in the past, and really just demanding one thing, more democracy and criticizing the authorities here in Hong Kong. The central government of China in the capital Beijing accusing them of eroding they're democratic freedoms and slowly imposing a more authoritarian system of governance on this former British colony. It really is a remarkable scene.

Fortunately, unlike last night and predawn hours when we were tear gassed along with demonstrators, security forces have pulled back really giving way to this remarkable protest movement. And we're just getting news that in addition to many students who are boycotting classes and some trade unions that are also calling for a boycott from work that kindergartens will be closed on Tuesday in a movement that is really bringing life to a halt in an island city long known for reputation of stability -- Randi.

KAYE: And, Ivan, I mean, obviously the message that these protestors want to get out is so important. But we are carrying their story. But the Chinese media is completely ignoring protests.

So, how do they plan to get their message out there?

WATSON: You know, I'm not entirely sure always who the target of this mass movement is. The Chinese government was running allowing our images to be beamed into mainland China until this morning basically. We've gotten reports that Instagram has been shut down there.

Obviously, the censorship is quite heavy. The great firewall of China which blocks Facebook and Google and Twitter even on a good day also kind of controls the flow of information over there. But what I'm feeling here is kind of eruption of kind of a collective demonstration of defiance and of pride from young people here in Hong Kong. Many of whom born after the 1989 Tiananmen square crack down and brutal time in 1989 which was a mainland for China.

These people, many of them too young to even remember that, born after that moment and just standing up with a full throat at war saying they will not leave until their demands for democracy are met -- Randi.

KAYE: And, Ivan, when you look at the size of that crowd, you have to wonder how long will they be allowed to stay there? And what is the plan to eventually disperse these crowds?

WATSON: It's a very good question I don't think anybody has an answer right now. This will clearly cost the Hong Kong economy millions of everyday that it goes on. These young people saying they're committed. They're ready to pay the costs to continue in their enormous act of civil disobedience.

But we don't know how the captains of finance and industry here in Hong Kong, whether or not they will support the protest movement, whether other people finding it hard to pay the skyrocketing rents here to make ends meet, whether they will support this as it cuts into their meager earnings.

And, of course, the 800-pound gorilla in the room, the central Chinese government. The ruling Chinese communist party. How will they react to this?

On mainland China, shows of defiance, of decent like this simply wouldn't be tolerated, much more draconian shows of force would be used. The central Chinese government as well as the Hong Kong authorities have declared this illegal. So, effectively, these people are criminals simply by continuing in this act of civil disobedience.

But when they use force against the demonstrators, when dozens were detained and arrested on Friday, that only seemed to add more fuel to this fire. It just simply grew the protest movement to the numbers we see now. Bigger than anything we'd seen in a week of student protests leading up to this climax -- Randi.

KAYE: And, Ivan, you've had a chance to talk to some of these protestors. Are they confident that they will actually see change, that all of this is worth their time and energy?

WATSON: That was a question asked day after day since protests began last month. Organized again by students, teenagers, and at that time, it was only thousands instead of tens of thousands who were marching and who were out in the streets. I asked again and again, do you really think you can change the policy of the central Chinese government in Beijing? And they said no, we have little hope of that. But our duty is to at least stand up and defend our rights.

This protest movement has grown exponentially since those early protests of a week ago when only 2,000 or 3,000 students were marching in the streets. Now older generations of Hong Kong residents have joined this movement. And that's part of what has allowed it and helped it grow to the size we see now.

But I can't stress enough, this is unchartered territory. These are unchartered waters for Hong Kong. Nobody knows where this protest movement will go next. Nobody knows the response of the authorities will be next.

And they have released some of those student leaders who were detained on Friday and Saturday in particular. A 17-year-old who helped spark this protest movement, a young man named Joshua Wong. He was only 17 and arrested on Friday, released on Sunday, a sign a conciliatory message coming from Hong Kong authorities. But one that has not reduced the size of this mass movement yet -- Randi.

KAYE: Ivan Watson, great to have you there on the ground for us, in the middle of it all as we said. Thank you so much from Hong Kong.

Still to come, a critical airport hub snarled and a nightmare for air travelers across the country here at home. How long will it take to get Chicago's air traffic center back to normal?

Ted Rowlands live in Chicago -- Ted.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Randi. Well, it's still happening, hundreds of flights already cancelled here today at O'Hare. It's having effect on air travel across the country. We'll have the latest coming up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)