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Turkey May Join War; Secret Service Chief Hammered; DNA Links Two Cases; Mom of Jihadi Militant Speaks

Aired September 30, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. And here we go. Top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

We've got this developing story for you. This potentially major move in the war against ISIS. Listen, we've asked this question before, where's Turkey? Why hasn't Turkey, with ISIS poised at its border, why hasn't Turkey, a powerful member of NATO, joined this fight?

Well, within the past hour, we have gotten word from Turkey's deputy prime minister that the government is submitting to this motion to parliament to quote/unquote, "extend its scope of potential action against ISIS." Let me just reiterate what I just said, Turkey's government now looking to extend its scope of potential action against ISIS.

So as you look at this fire fight, this is something that played out live here on CNN from Friday, I want you to keep this in mind, Turkey has ISIS basically knocking at its door of that border town Kobani and the people who live there say they fear for their lives at the prospect of ISIS breaking through and seizing this significant border town.

Also keep this in mind, Turkey joining the coalition could change the picture, make it much bigger, too, especially if Turkey sends in ground troops. Right, that is a possibility. We don't know that for a fact, if that could happen. But, again, a possibility. So this could be a huge development.

I have Bobby Ghosh here with me on set, CNN contributor and managing editor of Atlantic Media's Quartz.

So, Bobby Ghosh, his eyes sort of walked back here towards this map. If we can bring the map up, which I will do, hopefully, as we look at this and we talk about parliament convening, renewing the ability for them to say, yes, we want to enter the fight. They have yet to do that. But you say the timing of this is significant. Why?

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: The timing is significant and also some of the language. They're not just asking for a renewal of parliament's permission to launch attacks into Syria and Iraq. If Turkey's interests are threatened, they're also asking parliament to let foreign forces, so the U.S. presumably, or NATO, to use Turkey as a staging ground for attacks into Syria. And that's very crucial. So far --

BALDWIN: Because thus far -- so far, the U.S. -

GHOSH: Yes.

BALDWIN: And I'll just sort of illustrate on the map, right?

GHOSH: Yes.

BALDWIN: Striking sites within Syria.

GHOSH: Yes.

BALDWIN: But also using the waterways.

GHOSH: Yes, and all the way down from the Gulf. So that's a long way for those tomahawks and cruise missiles to travel. If there are crucial air force bases here. If the U.S. or NATO planes could fly into Syria from there, that would change the amount of time they could take, the response time, they could respond much more quickly to fire fights on the ground. And, of course, there's a possibility now if they get this permission from parliament, which is pretty much expected -

BALDWIN: OK.

GHOSH: That the Turks will join the fight.

BALDWIN: Because a lot of people have been saying, you know, I know the president talked to Erdogan saying -

GHOSH: Yes.

BALDWIN: Wanting their increased involvement.

GHOSH: Yes.

BALDWIN: My other question, when we talk about Kobani, and here it is, right, on - this is the border town. And if you hit on it, this is what you see - what played out on Friday. I'm wondering, do they - do - does ISIS just want Kobani, are they looking for these strategic locations, because Turkey's huge as far as the flow of the foreign fighters to join the fight, or do they simply want to extent this caliphate to become much bigger?

GHOSH: Well, they would probably like the caliphate to be as big as possible, but right now they want to create openings for -- Turkey has begun in recent weeks to clamp down.

BALDWIN: So along -

GHOSH: Yes. Recent weeks Turkey has begun to clamp down on the flow of fighters going across their borders into Syria. And that's a problem for the - for ISIS. They want to create some openings. And they want to take advantage. They're probing the various defenses of the Kurds, of the Turks. They're looking for weaknesses. Wherever they spot a weakness, they have the ability to go in very quickly. Sometimes it doesn't matter whether it's part of a big picture. It's a big psychological victory to be fighting within eyesight of the Turks and taking territory just -

BALDWIN: Wow.

GHOSH: The Turks are getting a front row seat to this, as are our cameras. And that's a psychological victory for them. They're showing the Turks, as you said, we're here, we're knocking at your door, see if you can stop us.

BALDWIN: I should mention we do, once again, have a correspondent there along the border who we'll check in with at the top of the hour just to see how the fight, very fluid, how it's going. My final question to you, as we talk about ISIS and these territory grabs, there was a shrine.

GHOSH: Yes.

BALDWIN: There was a shrine. It belongs to the Turks. It is in Syria. Do me a favor, Bobby Ghosh, tell me where it is.

GHOSH: Well, it is right here between Aleppo and Kobani. It is a shrine of (INAUDIBLE) who is the grandfather of the founder of the Ottoman Empire.

BALDWIN: Wow.

GHOSH: And for nearly 100 years, Turkey and Syria have had an arrangement by which that shrine is technically sovereign Turkish territory.

BALDWIN: Even though it's in Syria?

GHOSH: Even though it's in Syria. There's a Turkish flag flying over it. The Turkish guards were guarding that. If that shrine is attacked and Erdogan has said this over and over again, if that shrine is attacked, that is an attack on Turkish territory. Potentially, that is an attack on NATO territory. So if -- and now the - as we can see --

BALDWIN: Because we know ISIS is advancing. This is why we're pointing it out.

GHOSH: Yes.

BALDWIN: ISIS is advancing upon this shrine. And ISIS' M.O., if you will, is to destroy the shrines. Remember the Jonah Temple (ph), right, in Iraq?

GHOSH: They destroy every - right. They regard all shrines as idolatra (ph). So they'll destroy anything that looks like a shrine. And if they get anywhere close to that shrine and threaten that shrine, that becomes a trigger for Turkey to act. And Erdogan has --

BALDWIN: NATO article five.

GHOSH: NATO article five. We'll have to see if other NATO countries respond in that way.

BALDWIN: OK.

GHOSH: But certainly for the Turks to respond, it is a big emotional thing for the Turks. It's the founder of the Ottoman Empire is a very important political and emotional person in the history of Turkey. And you can see Erdogan and his government sort of use that as a trigger. If the shrine is attacked, then that may be the last straw that allows Turkey to get in the fight.

BALDWIN: OK. Bobby Ghosh, as always, thank you so much.

GHOSH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Just ahead here on CNN, a source tells us DNA evidence links the suspect in the case of that missing UVA student to another young woman's disappearance. The one who attended Virginia Tech some five years ago. We'll talk live with someone who knows this case, covered this case very, very closely.

Plus, the Secret Service grilled over security lapses as we learned an intruder made it much farther inside the White House as previously thought.

And protesters demanding democracy in Hong Kong, not backing down. Crowds beginning to gather yet again. We have correspondents and crews in the thick of this. Stay with me. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

You know what should be the most secure building in the world? The White House. It is vulnerable. And exactly how vulnerable is now on record. Congressional record. The head of the U.S. Secret Service admitted to the House Oversight Committee earlier today that this White House intruder with a knife didn't just reach the front door as first reported, but ran through the entrance, past the lobby, hung a left, entered the East Room where the president has given many public statements. The head of the committee said today that intruder, Omar Gonzalez, breached five layers of security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIA PIERSON, DIRECTOR, SECRET SERVICE: It's clear that our security plan was not properly executed. This is unacceptable, and I take full responsibility. And I'll make sure that it does not happen again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: But there was much more. Secret Service Director Julia Pierson had to answer for today, specifically regarding when this man, Oscar Ortega Hernandez, shot at the White House back on November 11, 2011. If you've been reading the incredible reporting that we've been seeing this week from "The Washington Post," they broke this story revealing it took several days for the Secret Service to realize bullets had hit the White House when Sasha, the president's youngest daughter, was there. She was home. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TREY GOWDY (R), OVERSIGHT AND GOVT. REFORM COMMITTEE: Is that true? Did a housekeeper find evidence of the shooting and your agents did not?

PIERSON: The housekeeper was able to locate fragments of glass on the Truman balcony, which is not an area that is frequented by security person.

GOWDY: I didn't ask you about who was frequent. I asked you, there -- there was a spontaneous conclusion that shots were fired. There were officers who believed they smelled gun powder. There were -- your officers drew their weapons, director. That's how seriously they took it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now, Pierson was not the director of the Secret Service at the time. We should point out, she was chief of staff at the Secret Service. But let's talk about this. Joining me now, former secret service agent Dan Bongino, whose brother is currently an agent, and I should also mention Dan is running for Congress.

Welcome, Dan.

DAN BONGINO, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Good to be here. Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: So, I'm sure you watched all of this today, as we all did here at CNN. And I know some of the lawmakers are calling for Julia Pierson's head. Do you think she should lose her job?

BONGINO: Yes, I don't think she can survive this. I don't think she should survive this. You know, there's information -- I just got a Google alert that the agent that tackled the intruder in the White House breaking in "The Post" was tackled by an off duty agent who wasn't even on duty at the time. My point in telling you that is not to break news on CNN. You guys get the same reports I -

BALDWIN: Which we haven't independently confirmed that, let me be clear, I know that's a Google alert, but, forgive me.

BONGINO: Right, right. So -- right. But the point of saying that is, they've got to get the story out. You know, it's a golden rule of crisis management. Get the story out quickly, get it out accurately, and let - just let the chips fall where they may at that point. This slow roll strategy where new tidbits of information come out, which every day you're going to see them creeping out over and over now as more details emerge, is just going to be devastating. I don't see any way she can survive this.

BALDWIN: That it had to be "The Washington Post" to do their due diligence in digging to find all this out because of transparency it seems like it certainly, at the time, wasn't there. And then the other issue, the head of Secret Service was, you know, really questioned about today, was the low morale within the agency and how the culture inside the Secret Service really discourages whistleblowing. Here's another clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), OVERSIGHT & GOVERNMENT REFORM COMMITTEE: That, I'm telling you, when I boil all of this down, that, to me, is dangerous. It goes -- it has to go against morale. I don't even see how good decisions can be made if your own people don't feel a level of comfort that -- or they feel fear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, Congressman Cummings says "dangerous." I mean, Dan, your time at the agency, how -- how did you feel? Did you and your colleagues feel like if you needed to you could speak up or was it discouraged?

BONGINO: There were a lot of good managers in the Secret Service, and there still are. Unfortunately, there tends to be this small kobal (ph) of managers insulated at the highest level. And my fear is that they're not strong enough to push back against people like the White House staff amongst Republican and Democratic administrations when security decisions are paramount. I've seen it over and over. And that's why you're seeing this low morale. The guys and the women who work there feel like they've been abandoned. I've seen it over and over. I remember a trip I was on where a decision was made by a senior agent who knew what he was doing. Staff didn't like it and, of course, he got blackballed as, you know, a troublemaker. This is the kind of stuff that happens within the Secret Service and why morale is so bad, and why I'm receiving phone calls every day from people who are really just devastated.

BALDWIN: It sounds like a leadership issue.

BONGINO: It is a leadership issue. It's a -- but it's an insulated group at the top. I want to be clear on that. There are a lot of stellar, I mean stellar managers in the Secret Service -

BALDWIN: I'm sure.

BONGINO: Who have been through, you know, been through a number of very dangerous trips and put together successful plans. But those are the people, when they stick up for the rank and file agents and officers, they tend to get silenced because they're not playing the game in D.C. talk.

BALDWIN: We watch for the fallout. Dan Bongino, thank you so much.

Got to pull away because we're getting some breaking news here. Just into us at CNN, word of a shooting. Word of a shooting at a high school in Louisville, Kentucky. This is Fern Creek High School. Two schools on lockdown. We are told one student is hurt. Police looking for at least one suspect. Updates as soon as we get them.

Coming up next, a source tells CNN, DNA evidence links a suspect in the case of the missing University of Virginia student to another disappearance, this one involving a Virginia Tech student from some five years ago. We'll talk live with someone who knows this case very well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: There are dramatic new developments today involving a suspect in this month's disappearance of University of Virginia student Hannah Graham. A law enforcement source tells CNN that DNA evidence now links Jessie Matthew to the case of Morgan Harrington, that Virginia Tech student who disappeared back in 2009. Harrington was all of 20 years of age when she disappeared after attending a Metallica concert in Charlottesville not too far from the university, the same college town where Hannah Graham just disappeared. Harrington's remains were found on a farm several months later.

And here he is. This is Jesse Matthew currently being held in isolation at a Virginia jail. He is currently charged with abduction with intent to defile in the Hannah Graham case. A bond hearing is scheduled for Thursday.

But for more on this new development, let me bring in Sara Mitchell. She was the editor in chief of Virginia Tech's "Collegiate Times" newspaper in 2009 when Morgan Harrington disappeared.

Sara, welcome.

SARA MITCHELL, FORMER EDITOR, VIRGINIA TECH'S "COLLEGIATE TIMES": Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: I mean it was huge news. I remember covering it at the time. But take me back to Blacksburg. I mean what was it like when that news broke that a fellow student was missing?

MITCHELL: Well, similar to Hannah's case, it really started on social media. People are spreading pictures of Morgan and saying, you know, our friend has been missing for 24 hours and to the newsroom at Virginia Tech and, as well, the entire Virginia Tech community. We were just astounded at how quickly it reached the national stage. And for a story like this, that's obviously appreciated, you know, you want more eyes and ears on this story, more people that can provide leads within 24 hours, 48 hours. The police said they were getting hundreds of leads and people saying they might have spotted her here or they have, you know, some idea of where she might have gone or where they last saw her. And so having that on the national landscape I think really helped keep it on the forefront of people's minds and even five years later, there's still tons of us at Virginia Tech that, you know, we remember her and think about her, especially on the anniversary of the disappearance -

BALDWIN: Of course.

MITCHELL: And at any different times. And so being able to have it come back, it's not like anyone's forgotten, but we're glad that hopefully there's a connection and some closure for us and hopefully soon closure for Hannah's family and friends. BALDWIN: You know, Sara, at the time, it's one of those things where

so many college students, we all went to, you know, shows in big college towns. And just to think of going to, you know, what was it, the John Paul Jones Arena in Charlottesville and going to see a band. And I remember at the time, you know, she left the arena, she had to go to the bathroom, she wasn't allowed back in and she was wandering and then, you know, months later her body was found on a farm. But, I mean, this is the kind of thing even you -- you've been to that arena, right?

MITCHELL: Yes. Yes, I think that was one of the interesting parts of striking a balance of college journalism. You know, we're covering it and we're information providers, but also it's a story for us that we're listening to. It's our classmate and our Virginia Tech community. And, you know, I was thinking that I was Morgan's age at that time. I was also 20. I'd been to the JPJ Arena. I'd been to concerts there. And it's just that randomness of thousands of us had walked there and this one incident that happened and just why, you know, why did that happen at that time? And hopefully with a suspect in custody, we can have some answers.

BALDWIN: Just reading and watching interviews with, you know, Morgan Harrington's parents I know that in the wake of what happened to their daughter, they founded this organization dedicated to stopping what happened to Morgan. They don't want it, obviously, to happen to anyone else's child. It's called Help Save the Next Girl. What can you tell us about the parents and really just their efforts to remember their daughter?

MITCHELL: You know, I think that nobody would fault them for wanting to be out of the public. I mean, it's something that none of us can really imagine happening. But I think it's really brave and important for them that they have stayed in the public and keeping Morgan's story, you know, at the forefront and being able to share their story and let us share in their grief. And they had our reporters be in their home and speak with them a lot and keep in touch with them. And I think that that's important because, you know, it's a story for a while, but this person's still missing and, you know, there's still questions about who did it and, you know, I just -- we hope that, you know, for Hannah and her family that hopefully we can help her find -- help their family find her and, you know, find some closure for them, as well, the way the Harringtons were able to.

BALDWIN: Hearts and thoughts out to all the families involved. Sara Mitchell, thank you so much.

And just quickly an aside, there were several young women who had gone missing in the last couple of years in Charlottesville. So coming up next hour we'll be talking to a family member of one of the young women that they have actually still never found her body.

Coming up next, the police chief in Ferguson, Missouri, speaking out for the first time since his apology. The one that received so much backlash. Does he regret it? You will hear straight from him.

Plus, I'll speak live with a veteran CNN producer who covered Tiananmen Square 20 plus years ago about his reaction to the protests in Hong Kong. A lot of comparisons being made. Could they be on the verge of a turning point? Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Family and friends say he left early this year to join the al Qaeda affiliated al Nusra front.