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Nancy Grace

Missing Arkansas Realtor`s Body Found

Aired September 30, 2014 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Quote, "I just want my wife back," the desperate words of a husband whose real estate wife

vanishes after she shows a vacant home to a mystery buyer. Three hours later, husband Carl goes looking, to find the home`s front door wide open,

car and purse left behind. That night, husband Carl receives bizarre texts from his wife`s cell phone.

Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, the horrific and heartbreaking news, Beverly Carter`s body found buried in a shallow grave.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just would like to have my wife back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her body was discovered after midnight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why Beverly? Why Beverly?

ARRON LEWIS, MURDER SUSPECT: (INAUDIBLE) rich broker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have anything to say to the family?

LEWIS: Sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And live, Fargo. Cops say a mom of three allegedly grinds down the powerful painkiller Hydrocodone and snorts it just before she

breast feeds her 4-day-old baby son. Within minutes, the baby dies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mom is accused of killing her newborn son.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities say Peterson (ph) snorted Hydrocodone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Said she fell asleep while breast-feeding, and when she woke up, Avery (ph) was unresponsive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, "Real Housewife" turned real convict Teresa Giudice and husband busted when fans hone in on their lavish lifestyle, the

two caught red-handed lying to the feds to get even more money, reports the "Real Housewife" bragging, I`ll never do a day behind bars. But after

stealing thousands from the taxpayers, "Real Housewife" Teresa Giudice sporting a brand-new $3,000 Valentino purse. And tonight, is it true,

"Real Housewife" Teresa Giudice throws a pre-prison party?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Teresa Giudice, allegedly downsizing after bankruptcy and federal convictions, was seen house shopping with a

Valentino purse worth over $2,400 while still owing millions of dollars to various creditors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And Clanton (ph), every parent`s worst nightmare, two little girls vanish from a sleepover.

Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. "I just want my wife back" -- the desperate words of a husband whose realtor wife vanishes after she shows a vacant home to a

mystery buyer. Three hours later, husband Carl goes looking, to find the home`s front door wide open, car and purse left behind. That night, he

receives bizarre texts from his wife`s cell phone.

In the last hours, horrific and heartbreaking news. Beverly Carter`s body has been found buried in a shallow grave.

Straight off the top, we`re going out to Lieutenant Carl Minden with the Pulaski County sheriff`s office. Lieutenant Minden, thank you for

being with us. As police were taking the prime suspect, Arron Lewis, in and out of the jailhouse, it`s my understanding he blurts out a comment.

What do we know?

LT. CARL MINDEN, PULASKI COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE (via telephone): Well, I think the comments that he blurted were after we`d already

recovered Beverly`s -- Beverly`s body. You know, basically, we interviewed him for 12-plus hours. And we have some very seasoned, very skilled

investigators. He did actually admit under Miranda that he abducted her, but he would never actually give us her location. And we`ve tried multiple

tactics with him, and eventually just decided to end the investigation. He was charged, taken to the facility.

Our investigators were working other angles and managed to develop some information based off some other sources of a location where we

believed that she might be. It was up in the northern part of the county. It`s a concrete company and...

GRACE: Right. Let`s talk about that. With me, Lieutenant Carl Minden with the Pulaski County sheriff`s office. Take a listen to what

suspect Arron Lewis just said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arron, did you kill Beverly Carter?

LEWIS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You did not?

LEWIS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have anything to say?

LEWIS: I had -- I had a co-defendant. I haven`t seen her for two days. Now they`re showing pictures of this. I haven`t seen her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How can you explain what happened?

LEWIS: I had a co-defendant. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) He`s Air Force at the military base.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what`s your relationship with (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?

LEWIS: They want pix (ph). He`s got texts back and forth, me and him, and then they wanted my phone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why Beverly? Why Beverly?

LEWIS: She was a rich broker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have anything to say to the family?

LEWIS: Sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What else do you want to say to the family?

LEWIS: Sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why Beverly?

LEWIS: Because she was just a woman who worked alone, a rich broker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill her?

LEWIS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Chilling, for every woman that`s out there making a living like Beverly Carter. That is during his walk from the sheriff`s office to

the jail. He made several statements, including, as you heard, apologizing to the Carter family and claiming he had a co-defendant.

But cops say that statement is unfounded. He`s the only suspect. He`s the only person charged in this case. And it is not unusual at all

that cops hone in on a lone defendant, they try to lay the blame on somebody else.

With me, special guest Lieutenant Carl Minden with the Pulaski County sheriff`s office. You know, all this talk about a co-defendant, I don`t

buy that for a minute. And you were just telling me, Lieutenant -- I want to see pictures of Beverly, as well. For anyone who is seeing or hearing

our program tonight, what, if anything, do you know...

(CROSSTALK)

MINDEN: We`re not buying it, either.

(CROSSTALK)

MINDEN: He gave us that same information during the interview. We actually spoke to the individual that he`s referencing. It is our opinion

at this time that person has absolutely nothing to do with Beverly Carter`s murder or even the abduction. It`s just a desperate plea by a man that has

made several poor decisions, and is in our estimation, a very violent person.

GRACE: Well, Lieutenant Carl Minden, you said that you guys had -- after interviewing him, interrogating him for 12 hours, he would admit to

kidnapping her, but would not admit to killing her. So you couldn`t get the information of where her body was from him. But this location, this

shallow grave near Argos (ph) cement factory -- didn`t he used to work there?

MINDEN: He did use to work for that company. It`s a company that has multiple sites across central Arkansas. Our investigators, you know, had

that information, pieced it together with some other clues that they had and pinpointed that as a location (INAUDIBLE) search. You know, it still

was something that, you know, they had to locate. You know, the body was, you know, not completely visible. They had to go and find her. This is a

very depraved man. And, you know, and the crime he committed is atrocious and...

GRACE: Lieutenant Minden, was she clothed?

MINDEN: You know, at this time, it`s not something we`re really delving off into. You know, this happened early this morning. Our

investigators are still piecing everything together. They`re still linking information to me as they can. And once they get everything formulated and

-- we`ll know that, you know, probably a short time period, but there is a lot of details about how she was found that will come out later.

GRACE: OK. Lieutenant Carl Minden joining us. Also with me, Robyn Walensky, and the guy who chased this guy down, Adam Nash, is with us. He

continued to chase Arron Lewis, even though Lewis threatened him with a knife.

Robyn Walensky, anchor/reporter with TheBlaze -- you know, Robyn, I have never once asked a cop, was she clothed when the body was found, and

if she was clothed, they go, She was clothed. If the victim was not clothed, they always say, I can`t release that information. So I`m going

to go out on a limb on that.

But you know, Robyn, if you look at history -- when you don`t know a horse, look at his track record. For instance, Scott Peterson -- he was a

fisher, right? He threw his wife and unborn son, Conner, into the water at the bay where he fished. If you are looking at a hunter, go look where he

hunts. This guy used to work at Argos cement factory, and that is where the shallow grave was.

ROBYN WALENSKY, THEBLAZE (via telephone): That`s right, Nancy. Addressing your point about her with the police officer not revealing if

she was wearing clothes or not, that is a very, very, very bad sign, as we all know.

In terms of the Argos cement company, he worked there. He knew the terrain. As you know, 99 percent of the time, murderers dump bodies in

locations where they know the terrain. That`s an FBI statistic that`s out there.

What`s so sad about this case and what`s so heartbreaking is that people in her law office -- in her -- excuse me, in her real estate office,

Beverly Carter, said that she was fun-loving. She was the sunshine of the office. And people describe Mr. Lewis, Arron Lewis, as crazy, clingy,

obsessed and a psycho.

GRACE: I mean, another thing that her son was telling us was that she was one of the top realtors in the whole area. And her picture, which is

gorgeous, was out there on all of the PR, along with her phone number.

At this hour, as he is taken into custody, Arron Lewis, who`s no stranger to the law -- this is -- this ain`t his first rodeo -- claims he`s

got a co-defendant, which, of course, nobody believes.

With me right now, the man who chased down suspect Arron Lewis, called 911, says Arron Lewis threatened him with a knife. Adam Nash, thank you

for being with us. Adam, so this is the way it all goes down. He`s standing outside a Subway sandwich shop. He`s spotted. He goes on the

run, runs into an apartment complex, goes and hides in the manager`s office, even jumps out a window to get away.

When did you see him? When did you realize who he was?

ADAM NASH, CHASED DOWN SUSPECT (via telephone): Well, I had pulled up in front of the Razor Vapor (ph) store right next to the Subway, and he was

standing directly in front of my car. And we made eye contact. And he had asked me if I was -- through the front, if I was waiting for him to -- or

waiting for the store to open, and I nodded my head yes and...

GRACE: Hold on. Hold on, Adam. I`m showing surveillance right now. That`s video surveillance at the Subway. It`s suspect Arron Lewis, and

it`s obtained by affiliate KARK. This is what Adam Nash is telling you about.

There you see Lewis. I mean, to look at him, you`d have no clue that according to police, he has just murdered a mother and wife, buried her

body in a shallow grave. Check it out! Hey, I`ll have a turkey on whole wheat. It`s like nothing has happened.

So Adam, when do you get into the picture?

NASH: Well, like I said, when he was standing in front of my car, we made eye contact. And I had looked down at my phone. And I was, like,

This man looks so familiar. The community of Little Rock, it was behind this case 100 percent, and about everywhere, you saw his face on social

media. And I clicked on Facebook, and that was the first thing that popped up, was his picture.

And I`ve looked and just made eye contact to him. And I tried to act as calm as possible and called 911. And at that time, I think he noticed

that I had done something because it kind of startled him and he started pacing right in front of my car.

And at that time is when he -- if you look at the shopping center, he kind of walked towards the end. And at that time, I had -- knew the

gentleman that had just pulled up and stepped out of the car. And you know, one of the other gentlemen from -- Ben (ph) had -- and Matt (ph) had

stepped out of the real estate company and said, That is Arron Lewis. And at that time is when we all started out on foot.

We all kind of went different directions. But you know, I caught up to him fairly quickly, and he threw a pair of gloves down. And as I got,

you know, closer to the office building is when he had stopped. We were with arm lengths away. And he asked me, Why are you chasing me? I didn`t

steal anything.

And of course, you know, I respond back, I know you didn`t steal anything, but I know that you kidnapped this lady. And he said he didn`t

kidnap anyone. And then that time is when -- I thought it was a box cutter. Come to find out it was a knife, and he pulled it out onto his

side. And I`m backed up a few steps. And you know, I knew the other gentlemen were running up. And so he ran into the office building. I run

to the behind of it just to make he doesn`t get out from back there, just to wait until the police were able to arrive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... show a house, and she was not seen again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I knew that something was wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re looking for a guy here that was involved in the realtor being kidnapped. And this guy looks like him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why Beverly?

LEWIS: Because she was a woman who worked alone, a rich broker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I think he`s just sick and it was because he saw this beautiful target.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her body was found in a shallow grave. It`s about 25 miles north of Little Rock.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The heartbreaking and horrific news that Beverly Carter`s body has been found, this after her son joins us last night, begging for his

mother`s safe return, claiming she was targeted because of her beauty. Look at her. Nothing could be more true.

According to the prime suspect, she was a woman that worked alone, and she was a rich broker. Her body has been found, buried in a shallow grave

near Argos cement company, where the prime suspect once worked.

We are taking your calls. Joining me, Lieutenant Carl Minden, Adam Nash, the man who chased down Arron Lewis, Lewis pulling a knife on him.

Also with me, Sommer Salgaonkar, friend and co-worker of Beverly Carter`s.

Lieutenant Minden, you told us that even though you guys interrogated him for 12 hours, probably over 12 hours, he admitted to kidnapping her but

wouldn`t say that he killed her or tell where the body was?

MINDEN: Yes. That`s correct. There was a long interrogation. He made the post-Miranda admission very early on and -- but he would not give

us the information. The whole reason us wanting him in custody was to find Beverly, and he just would not give that information. He kind of used that

as his bargaining chip, of course, you know, because he`s in the situation he`s in. And he did it for a prolonged period.

I would just make one statement. Don`t take my (INAUDIBLE) comments to make (INAUDIBLE) assumptions on anything. We`re playing this by the

book (INAUDIBLE) cross our T`s and dot our I`s and make sure this is just a -- a -- just as good investigation as we can (INAUDIBLE) very serious

matter. And that`s why you`re going to see our comments be...

GRACE: Right.

MINDEN: ... somewhat restrictive because we want...

GRACE: Well, Lieutenant Minden...

MINDEN: We want justice -- we want justice for this family and we don`t want to mess it up (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: I agree with you 200 percent because every word that you state, every utterance you make will be used by a defense attorney come

time for trial, to somehow twist it and contort it and use it in defense of Arron Lewis, who is no stranger to the law. He`s been in and out of jail

so many times. He just cut a break and did less than half the time on his last sentence and was out walking free. And of course, sees, spots a sign

of this woman, Beverly Carter, and decides to go after her because she`s a woman working alone and is a rich broker.

Everyone, with us and taking your calls, Adam Nash, who chased down Arron Lewis, even though he pulled a knife on him. Also with me, Sommer

Salgaonkar, a dear friend and co-worker of Beverly`s.

Sommer, thank you so much for being with us. Sommer, I know that this has just put a chill down the spine of every working woman. We`ve got to

get to work. We`ve got to do our jobs. Here she is, and I can just see her heading out right now in her little black top and her red capri pants,

going at the end of a long day to show a house, a house where the mystery man says he`ll pay cash. Now, who wouldn`t go show that house? It`s still

daylight. She didn`t suspect anything at all.

Sommer, what can you tell us about Beverly?

SOMMER SALGAONKAR, FRIEND AND CO-WORKER (via telephone): Wow. Beverly was probably the most professional and most respected agent in our

office, just bar none. She -- everyone loved her. She was top agent in our office every year. She was known by her laugh. She had an infectious

laugh. She was one of the most kind, giving people you could ever meet.

And she just held herself well. She was always professional. She was very well spoken. She had a lot of training. And she was a hard worker.

She had a wonderful story. When she first got into real estate, she lost her son. And it was, I think, almost a year before she ever made her

first sale. She did not have an easy road in real estate, and she worked her way to the top. And she never had an easy life. And she wasn`t rich

by any means. Nowhere close...

GRACE: You know what, Sommer? You mentioned something that I hadn`t brought up yet. With me, a very dear friend of Beverly`s, Sommer

Salgaonkar. This family has known so much heartache. I keep referring to the fact that she`s a mother of three sons. She lost one of the sons, died

in a car crash. And as Sommer`s telling you, after that, she poured her energies, starting at zero to becoming the number one realtor in that

office, one of the top realtors in the area, because she worked so hard and she had this infectious laugh and this magnetic personality.

And when I heard her son, Carl, Jr., talking last night about his mother`s beauty inside and outside, our hopes were all raised that somehow,

some way, Beverly was going to be brought home alive.

To those of you just joining us, that is not the case. Her body has been found in a shallow grave.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you kill Beverly Carter?

LEWIS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Real estate agent Beverly Carter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He will be charged with capital murder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want him to plead guilty?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want this all over with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would he be willing to plead guilty to capital murder charges?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing the prime suspect in the disappearance and death of real estate wife and mother Beverly Carter.

That was Arron Lewis, now facing capital murder charges.

Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Shawn Parcells, forensic consultant, Patrick McDonough, defense attorney, Trinity Hundredmark, defense attorney.

But first, to a special guest, Lieutenant Carl Minden with the Pulaski County sheriff`s office. Lieutenant, I have a list of charges, but right

now, these are police charges, arrest warrant charges. When will this case go to a grand jury, Lieutenant?

MINDEN: In Arkansas, it`s a little bit different. Those are his charges. He has been formally charged, and...

GRACE: OK. So the prosecutor is...

MINDEN: There is not a grand jury (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: Oh. OK, these are going to be the prosecutor`s charges, as well?

MINDEN: Correct. Those are prosecutor`s charges. You know, he was in district court in Arkansas. In the district court, you cannot plead

guilty. They only -- you have to -- guilt can only be pled in what we call circuit court. So his case is going to be filed direct to circuit court.

You know, if he wants to keep his admission (ph), that will come later on, statements he made. But in the venue he was at, he just -- he can`t make

that -- that plea.

GRACE: Got you. With me, Lieutenant Carl Minden. Also with me, Shawn Parcells, Patrick McDonough, Trinity Hundredmark. First of all to

you, Patrick McDonough, all these statements he`s making will come into evidence. The U.S. Constitution protects you from the state. That means

the police basically can`t beat you until you confess. But the U.S. Constitution does not protect you from gabbing to the media. When he said

I wanted to plead guilty but my lawyer won`t let me, that`s going to come into evidence. Not only that, when he says I`m sorry, that`s going to come

into evidence. When he makes up this ridiculous story about the co- defendant did it. That`s going to come into evidence. What am I supposed to believe, McDonough? He says he kidnapped her. What? Little green men

came in and after he kidnaps her, lures her to this home with a promise of a cash down payment, makes off with her, steals her, then somebody else

comes and kills her and buries her in a shallow grave? You think a jury`s going to believe that, McDonough?

MCDONOUGH: Well, let`s start with this. A horrific crime, but you want to make sure you got the right person. So I certainly would be

interested, is there physical evidence that links him to this crime? At this point, I heard no physical evidence yet.

GRACE: He said he did it.

MCDONOUGH: Second of all, I`d really be interested in a 12-hour interview, when the officer who came on your show said they were

bargaining. Was there some type of hope of benefit? Or --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: You`re interested? That doesn`t rise to a motion to suppress because Patrick McDonough is interested --

MCDONOUGH: No, (inaudible), if the officer says that I will give you, there`s some hope of benefit, it could be suppressed. So if you lose that

statement and you have no physical evidence, there`s really question as to whether there is reasonable doubt here, absolutely.

GRACE: Really, Trinity Hundredmark? Because even if you throw out the police statement, what about that statement he made on national TV that we

just played for you? I am sorry, tell the family I`m sorry, I want to plead guilty, but my lawyer wouldn`t let me. I`d like to hear you two do a

back flip and find a way to suppress him gabbing to the media.

HUNDREDMARK: Nancy, we are picking and choosing what statements are we going to listen to. We want to take those at face value, but we`re not

even going to listen to any about this alleged co-defendant that he says is out there? We can`t say that, yes, he`s admitted guilt and he`s apologized

and so he`s guilty. But we`re not going to pay attention to the co- defendant.

(CROSSTALK)

HUNDREDMARK: We`re not giving credibility to it.

GRACE: I`m so happy --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: -- he tried to blame a phantom co-defendant. I`m glad he said that. That`s going to come in at trial too. The fact that he admits to

the kidnapping, then he won`t tell police where the body is. And relieve some of the family`s distress. Do you know how awful it is?

HUNDREDMARK: It doesn`t make sense. Why would he admit to kidnapping if he knows she`s dead? Doesn`t make any sense.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Really? Does it make sense, Trinity, to lure a woman to a vacant house? And then kidnap her? Does that make sense to you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here`s what this --

GRACE: You are not Trinity Hundredmark. No, she`s the one that says it doesn`t make sense. What about that? Does that make sense, Trinity?

HUNDREDMARK: It doesn`t make sense that he says he kidnapped her because she`s a rich woman, and he left her purse in the car. If that were

the case, he would`ve taken her money, he would have robbed her. None of what he said has made sense, but we can`t pick and choose what we want to

believe.

GRACE: Don`t you get it? Don`t you get that murder never makes sense? I mean, do I still have Lieutenant Minden with me? Lieutenant

Minden, have you ever, and I`m not talking about this case, Lieutenant. You just heard a tiny taste, kind of like an appetizer to what the defense

is going to present at trial. Let me ask you about every other case you have ever handled, Lieutenant Minden. Every other homicide. Have you ever

seen a homicide case, a murder one trial that made sense? That the motive made sense? That a jury went, oh, that made sense, acquit.

MINDEN: No. I mean, at the time it probably made sense to the person that committed it. If you`re a reasonable person, on the outside, commit a

murder, it`s never going to make sense to you. So, you know, your motive may make sense to you, but a rational person`s going to look at it and

question every bit of it. And, you know, as far as what we`re arguing about this case, I agree with the defense attorney, don`t ever tell anybody

I said that. There`s a whole case to this, and it`s not out there yet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Now, live, Fargo, cops say a mother of three allegedly grinds down the powerful painkiller hydrocodone and snorts it just before she

breast feeds her 4-day-old baby son. Within minutes, the baby dies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to police, Rianne Peterson (ph) crashed up some hydrocodone and snorted it just before breast-feeding little Avery.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Horror, shock, disbelief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Emily Welker with the Fargo forum. So just before she breastfeeds, she grinds down hydrocodone and then the baby dies.

What do we know, Emily?

EMILY WELKER, FARGO FORUM: Well, that`s the allegation according to what was filed -- with the charges that were filed against her. According

to what police got out of this woman, she told the police that she snorted the hydrocodone, laid down to breast-feed the baby at 11:00 p.m. And when

she woke up at around 12:30, that`s about an hour and a half later, the baby was not responsive at all. Originally she told police she actually

thought she`d smothered him.

GRACE: With me is Emily Welker with the Fargo Forum. Isn`t she also charged with meth, methamphetamine?

WELKER: Right. She had apparently been in the company of another witness, who when this whole investigation was going on, told the detective

that he had seen her smoking methamphetamine in the week or so prior to actually delivering the child. And then she corroborated that later and as

part of her police interview.

GRACE: So she gabbed a lot in the police interview. This mother accused of using methamphetamine, one of the most powerful and addictive

drugs there is. I mean, you -- take a look at what meth does to you. These are drug arrestees, arrested for meth. And I`m not talking about

over a 20 to 25-year period. This is done within just a couple of years. Look at this. Now, imagine mommy breast-feeding baby, mommy on meth. Meth

mom. Ouch. Justin Freiman, what more can you tell us?

FREIMAN: I can tell you that this mom, it says she actually admitted to police she had taken meth in the days leading to this newborn`s birth

and that she actually fell asleep while breast-feeding this child.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Shawn Parcells with me, forensic consultant out of Kansas. Patrick McDonough, defense attorney. Trinity

Hundredmark, defense attorney. All right, Shawn Parcells, I`m just very curious about what effect methamphetamine is going to have on a baby. Hold

on, Shawn, hold on, attorneys. Dr. Stephen M. Taylor has just joined us, addiction psychiatrist. Dr. Taylor, what affect would methamphetamine have

on a baby if the mom is using meth?

DR. STEPHEN M. TAYLOR, ADDICTION PSYCHIATRIST: Well, if the mom is using meth before just a little bit before giving birth, we know that

babies who are born with methamphetamine or other drugs in their systems have a great deal of risk for complications of birth and problems when they

develop. So the baby is very much at risk for all kinds of health problems.

GRACE: How long will methamphetamines stay in your system, Dr. Taylor? How long will it stay in your system?

TAYLOR: Methamphetamine will only stay in the system two to three days, so it doesn`t stay that long. Depends on how long before she gave

birth that she was using the drug.

GRACE: Patrick McDonough, Trinity Hundredmark, Shawn Parcells, you heard the allegation, Trinity, this was intentional. Right before she

breast feeds, she actually goes to the trouble, according to police, to grind up hydrocodone, snort it. It`s not like she`s taking a pain pill her

doctor gave her with a glass of water. She`s grinding it up and snorting it, then breast-feeds. Within minutes, baby dead. What`s your defense,

Trinity?

HUNDREDMARK: Nancy, we`re trying to charge this woman for breast- feeding while taking hydrocodone. I had a C-section. When I was released from the hospital, I was prescribed hydrocodone and I breast-fed my kid.

It`s not something that`s not done. And there`s no breast-feeding mom out there that has not accidentally fallen asleep while they`re breast-feeding.

You`re tired, you are taking narcotics to deal with pain. It`s not a crime to fall asleep while you`re breast-feeding. My question is, who let her

leave the hospital with that child if we`d known she was on meth.

GRACE: Hold on.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Okay, to Justin Freiman. Justin, is there even a shred of evidence to suggest she had a prescription for hydrocodone?

FREIMAN: Nancy, there is not. And even if she did, there`s no way it would have said, please crush up and snort.

GRACE: OK, back to the lawyers. Patrick McDonough, Trinity Hundredmark, Shawn Parcells, Trinity, you refer to the fact that after you

gave birth, you had painkillers. All right. Just a quick cross-exam. Were they prescription? Or did they buy them off somebody on the street

corner?

HUNDREDMARK: No, they were prescription. But again, Nancy--

GRACE: Now, did you grind them up and snort them? Or did you take them according to the directions?

HUNDREDMARK: I took them as they were prescribed. And, again, we don`t know she`s admitted to snorting them. We don`t know that.

GRACE: Yes, she did. Didn`t you just hear Emily Welker with the Fargo Forum? I mean, let`s deal with reality. Patrick McDonough, I`m

serious. What is the defense?

MCDONOUGH: Here`s the defense. First of all, it appears when she left the hospital, there`s no evidence of any methamphetamine in the baby

or her. The second thing is, it doesn`t happen after minutes after breastfeeding. It appears she fell asleep, and an hour and a half later,

the baby dies. The question is, was this an accident or was there something she did intentional? And there the state carries the burden to

make the link between the drugs and the death. And they haven`t done it.

GRACE: Shawn Parcells, forensic consultant, weigh in.

PARCELLS: Yes, here`s my problem with this case. Investigating several hundred baby deaths. You have a lady who grinds up the

hydrocodone. She`s taking it improperly. When you grind it up, they do that because they want a quicker delivery into their system to basically

get a high.

Hydrocodone is a central nervous system depressant to the point where it drives the respiratory rate down and you basically fall asleep. And if

you take too much, you`ll die. She breast-feeds this child and most likely smothers the child after taking this and not knowing what`s going on. In

my opinion, she should be held responsible for the death of that child.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Straight out to Emily Welker and Fargo Forum. Emily, I`m sure you just heard Trinity Hundredmark and Patrick McDonough suggest,

especially Hundredmark, that when she came home from delivering a baby she had a painkiller. All right. I don`t believe there`s a shred of evidence

to suggest that this mother was on prescription drugs. And I doubt pretty seriously the outside of the painkiller from the pharmacy said grind down,

beat it down with the bottom of a coffee mug and snort it right before you breast-feed.

WELKER: I would agree that that`s an unorthodox way to consume your prescription. But it`s interesting you ask that. I just got off the phone

with a detective on the case, about an hour ago, and he did confirm she was prescribed the hydrocodone. But I would be shocked if her doctor told her

to snort it instead of swallowing it.

GRACE: That leads me to another question. For what was she not only snorting hydrocodone right before she breast fed and the baby dies, but was

she also faking prescriptions? Was she doctor shopping? What could her ailment be? When she spoke to police, isn`t it true she confesses to using

meth and grinding down the hydrocodone?

WELKER: Yes. She, according to the complaint filed against her, she admitted to using both the drugs, one while she was still carrying the

baby, and the one directly, pretty much directly after delivery, within the next few days.

GRACE: To --

MCDONOUGH: The whole point is going to come down to the timeline, Nancy. The meth was done way before this baby was given birth, and there

is no indication she had any of that in her system when she left the hospital. We now know she had a prescription for hydrocodone and we know

that she had a baby that was four days old and could have easily fallen asleep. The state has got to carry the burden and make that link between

using a prescribed drug to the death, and they just can`t do it in this case.

GRACE: To Dr. Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist. Dr. Ramani, when you have a baby, things are supposed to change, I think. It is not

all about you. It is about the child.

DURVASULA: Nancy, when you`re dealing with somebody who is an addict, things don`t change. We would like to think a baby could be a wake-up

call. An automatic flight into sobriety. But that`s not always the case. This woman was likely addicted to a lot of different substances, and that

doesn`t necessarily stop just because a person gets pregnant or has a baby. Just because a person got pregnant doesn`t necessarily mean they can be a

mom.

GRACE: Everyone, we`re going to be right back with this mother charged with meth and hydrocodone just before she breast feeds her baby.

But I want you to join the investigation with us tonight. To Satsmuma (ph), Florida, 5-year-old little Haley Cummings still missing without a

trace. Go to Facebook, my Facebook and Twitter now. Share this photo of Haleigh with friends. Help us get little Haleigh`s face out there. Get

her information out there so we can bring her home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Live, Clanton, Alabama, every parent`s worst nightmare. Two little girls vanish from a sleepover. And with me now, a mom of one of the

two little girls. Shelly East, her child, Brooke, has disappeared. Shelly, what happened?

SHELLY EAST, MOTHER OF MISSING TEEN: The girls were at a sleepover. The next morning, when the parents woke up, they called me and the girls

weren`t in the bed. We haven`t seen them since.

GRACE: Everyone, look at Jana and Brooke. Both little girl missing from a sleepover. Shelly East, the mother of Brooke, insists her daughter

would not have run away. Why do you say that, Shelly?

EAST: My daughter would not have run away. She is a homebody. We are a close-knit family. She is our baby, she`s spoiled rotten, she is a

mama`s baby, she`s a daddy`s baby. I don`t see any reason why she would want to run away. No reason at all.

GRACE: For everyone that can hear our program and see us right now, all of you on Sirius XM. Listen, these two little girls missing. 205-755-

4698. Mothers, fathers, can you imagine your girl gone? Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host. Where were they last seen?

MACK: They were actually seen just off I-65 in a place called the Peach Park exit in Chilton County, Alabama, which is between Birmingham and

Montgomery. They were last seen at 2:00 in the morning at this park area.

GRACE: Everyone, look at this location. These girls missing. These two little girls at a sleepover. They`re gone. We think we`ve gotten one

sighting of them. We don`t know if it is credible. Please look at their faces. 205-755-4698.

Let`s stop and remember, American hero, Army Sergeant First Class William Brown. Fort Worth, Texas. Two Bronze Stars, Army Commendation

Medal, loved football. And dreamed of working for the DEA. Mother Anita, four siblings, wife Audra, children, Trenton and Emily. William Brown.

American hero. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END