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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

First Case of Ebola Diagnosed in U.S.; Interview with Lt. Gov of Texas David Dewhurst; Airlines Say CDC Hasn't Contacted Them; Aviation Stocks Take Hit on Ebola News

Aired October 01, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And we are dedicating the next hour of CNN's programming to Ebola coverage because by now you probably know the first person to come down with Ebola and be diagnosed with it inside the United States is in serious condition at a Dallas Hospital. And what no one can say for sure right now is whether there will be a second or a third or any more cases, someone, or many someones, harboring the dreaded Ebola virus without yet even knowing it and without yet even knowing if he or she is passing it on.

Now, let me be clear. As of this moment, so far, as any experts or officials are aware, that is not the case. And we hope to learn a lot more one hour from now when the Texas governor, Rick Perry, is going to hold a news conference at Texas Presbyterian Hospital.

The sick man in question showed up at the ER there last Friday, six days after he'd arrived in Dallas by airplane from Liberia where Ebola has killed almost 2,000 people. He'd been in the U.S. for four days before he even showed any symptoms. And that is important because Ebola cannot be spread until a patient is actually sick and showing those symptoms. The ER treated him but did not admit him. And that's a big problem.

On Sunday, now very sick, that man went back to the hospital and this time was admitted and put into isolation. And yesterday it was confirmed that the man, in fact, has the deadly Ebola virus. The experts from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention arrived in Dallas this morning to try to track down every person that man could have potentially come in contact with and infected.

In the meantime, the ambulance crew who all have tested negative so far, they were being quarantined because of all of this. The vehicle itself was disinfected, but the officials say that that was routine policy. From the White House down, government officials are stressing that while Ebola often is deadly, it is not easily spread and poses, quote, "no significant risk to the United States," end quote. Let me repeat that, "no significant risk to the United States." The CDC director, Thomas Frieden, was a guest this morning on "NEW DAY."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, CDC DIRECTOR: The plain truth is, we've stopped this outbreak dozens of times in Africa in much more difficult conditions. In fact, even in Lagos, where there were almost 900 contacts identified and about 19,000 home visits to monitor for fever, we were able, it appears, to contain the outbreak. So there's no doubt we can contain it here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta was there for that interview. You saw him in that frame. And he's back live with me now with the very latest from the CDC headquarters. Also with me, senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen. She is at Texas Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas. And she'll give us the update on that patient.

But first to you, Sanjay. Listening to Dr. Frieden, it almost sounds like this is really not a big concern, and yet there were several days where this patient was not in quarantine and able to infect anyone else. Why should we not be worried about that?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, there's some good news and bad news in there, I think, Ashleigh, to exactly what you're saying. I mean I think Dr. Frieden is very, very clear and optimistic. In fact, he said unconditionally he believes that we can prevent an outbreak from occurring in the United States because of being able to implement very good, sound public health policies, the stuff that Elizabeth has been looking at in Liberia, it's a totally different picture over there. But what - you know, it's - so I think that that part of it is true and, you know, what you're going to get here in the United States versus West Africa is completely different. Greatly, greatly reduces the threat.

But the problem is that there was a couple of things that just were sort of misses. I mean the fact that this patient went to the hospital on the 26th of September, two days after he or she became sick, and was sent home, was not asked about travel history. That's low-hanging fruit. I mean if you're talking about stopping outbreaks in this country, that was low-hanging fruit and that could have prevented this person from being out there for another two days, possibly having contact with people.

They also got to go back and they got to now find all those various contacts, all the people that this person may have come in contact with. It may not be that many because the person was sick. So it's not like they're going to the shopping mall or big public areas. But, still, you don't want to miss even a single one of those contacts because if that person's infected, then you've got to find all that person's contacts. You sort of get the picture. So they've got to be so diligent about this. Person comes in with fever, recent travel to West Africa, their -- most of those people are not going to have Ebola, but it's got to heighten the level of concern and investigation, Ashleigh. I'm not sure that happened as well as it should have with this particular patient.

BANFIELD: And, Sanjay, just as you said that and we showed the contact tracing, there is also that calendar. If we could just put that calendar up for a moment again just to show when this patient developed the symptoms. It was on the 24th. But if you can see, there were several days where he, yes, went to the hospital on the 26th. That's 48 hours. But he's sent home so he could - effectively, he could have infected for four days after the 24th because ultimately when he returned to the hospital on the 28th, that is when he was quarantined.

Elizabeth, it's so timely that you've just been doing all this work in Liberia. I want to get a sense from you, because he flew from Liberia, I want to get a sense from you about your flight from Liberia. What kinds of checks and balances and controls and questions did you go through, you and your crew?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, Ashleigh, when we left Liberia, they were scrupulous about checking for us. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. We had our temperature taken not once, not twice but three times. Once in the car while -- as we were driving up to the airport, and then twice inside the airport. They asked us if we'd suffered from a whole long list of symptoms. They asked how close we'd been to Ebola patients, had we attended burials, et cetera. And then there was this team of nurses there and these ladies, like they - they looked pretty vigilant. They were looking at you because if you're going to lie and say you're feeling fine, they want to catch it in your eyes, catch it in your face, does this person really look fine? And if you look at all sick, they're going to send you on for secondary screening.

However, when I came to the United States, it was not as impressive. A spokesman for the White House said back in August, we are carefully monitoring, he used those words, carefully monitoring people from these countries coming back in the U.S. But that, Ashleigh, was not at all what I found. No temperature taking, no asking us about exposures. And we were clear -- my crew and I were clear that we had been in Liberia covering Ebola. They didn't ask us specifics about what we'd been doing. I alone was asked about symptoms.

The guy was about to give my passport back and say, welcome to the U.S., and he said, you know, I got an e-mail that I'm supposed to do something when people come back from these countries. Let me check this out. So he consulted with a colleague, who consulted with another colleague and they came back and said, ma'am, you're supposed to watch yourself for 21 days for symptoms. And I said, oh, what symptoms? And they couldn't tell me. And my photographer and my producer weren't told to watch for anything. My photographer had his boots checked for mud, which is useless for Ebola. So I can't explain why there were these inconsistencies.

BANFIELD: Wow.

COHEN: But I spoke with an official who was really unhappy about this and said, you know, that's really not the way it's supposed to work.

BANFIELD: Yes, getting the e-mail is one thing. Reading it, disseminating it, having meetings about it and actually noting that it's important and must be carried out is a whole other issue.

Sanjay and Elizabeth, I'm going to ask you to stand by for a moment, if you would, please, because joining me live, very timely, in fact, right now in New York is the lieutenant governor of Texas, David Dewhurst. And also from Dallas I'm joined by Normal Seals, who's the assistant chief of Dallas Fire and Rescue.

Lieutenant governor, I'm just going to come to you first, if I may. You've been in contact with Governor Rick Davis' (sic) crew and teams. They're going to be giving a news conference in an hour. What's the very latest that you know from the administration level?

LT. GOV. DAVID DEWHURST, TEXAS: Well, the state of Texas and Presbyterian - the Presbyterian Hospital have been following all of the protocols. In other words, the person is in isolation. He's being -- the rest of the hospital and the patients are being protected against that person being there. The health commissioner had put out advisories all during the summer to health care providers and so we're following the protocols.

Does it have me concerned? Sure. But as the head of the CDC said, we should be able to contain this and keep it to one person or maybe someone in the family. But right now, there's only one confirmed case of Ebola and that is the individual in question.

BANFIELD: Is Governor Perry concerned about this, especially noting what Sanjay and Elizabeth and I were just speaking of, the length of time that this patient was free and clear to move about in Dallas before being quarantined and isolated?

DEWHURST: Well, Ashleigh, we're all concerned. Obviously we're all concerned. But at the same time, that's why a big effort is underway right now to contact every one of those people that the person has been in contact with, to monitor them, and so that we can keep this contained. Sure, we're concerned. We've got the resources to keep this contained.

BANFIELD: So, Norman Seals, I'm going to bring you in on this conversation that you're overhearing with the lieutenant governor and me. And that is the resources to keep it contained. If you could walk me through what you did immediately upon finding out that there was this case and you've got a team of paramedics that was in direct contact. This is a bodily fluids issue and there's no one closer to that problem than paramedics. Take me from the paramedics and on down as to how you handled this and what you're going to be doing now that you know this is in our midst?

ASST. CHIEF NORMAN SEALS, DALLAS FIRE AND RESCUE: Absolutely. Thank you, ma'am.

Sunday morning, when the paramedic crews contacted this patient, fortunately they recognized the situation, not specifically that it was Ebola, but certainly that the patient was presenting with signs and symptoms of a potentially communicable disease. Took appropriate personal protections and appropriate transport protections as well. The paramedics did not come in contact with any bodily fluid, which certainly reduced their risk of contamination.

Upon their arrival at the hospital, they reported to the hospital staff their findings and what they knew about the situation. At that point in time, we did not receive any additional information until actually yesterday morning where we were told that there was a suspected case of Ebola, at which point in time we took the ambulance that they had transported with out of service, performed a decontamination in accordance with national standards, CDC guidelines, et cetera, and we've taken all appropriate precautions with our personnel to have them some medical screening that was performed yesterday evening after we received the positive test result and -- of the source patient. And then we actually now have those paramedics at home for in-home monitoring, self-monitoring, again, all in accordance with CDC guidelines.

BANFIELD: And, Chief Seals, just quickly, do your paramedics -- did they have any information prior to this case? Do they now have information and will they get a lot more of it going forward to inquire of anyone their travel history, if they have been to these afflicted areas in West Africa, when presented with a case that was very much like this patient's?

SEALS: Absolutely, yes, ma'am. You know, obviously, Dallas - the Dallas/Ft. Worth area has a lot of international travel in and out. We have a fairly robust communicable disease process -- training process in our system. And we have put out a good bit of information. As the lieutenant governor and others have stated, there have been a number of bulletins going out over the last several months about Ebola, along with West Nile, Chikungunya and other disease processes that are out there.

So we have forwarded that information out. We've trained the medics to be on the lookout for this. In fact, one of the questions that the paramedics asked of this patient Sunday morning was, any recent travel and found out that the patient had indeed come from Liberia and denoted that in their paperwork and transferred that information to staff.

BANFIELD: OK.

SEALS: In addition to that, late last night, we got out some additional information through our internet system to our personnel and are bolstering that with additional more detailed information sometime later this morning to make sure our paramedics and our fire personnel have all the information available that they need to deal with any potential contamination.

BANFIELD: Chief Seals, thanks for that.

Hold on for a moment, if you would, for just now. I'm joined live on the phone now by Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings.

Mayor, can you hear me?

MAYOR MIKE RAWLINGS, DALLAS, TEXAS (via telephone): I can. Good morning.

BANFIELD: So, from your -- good morning. Thank you so much for being with us and I'm sorry it's under these circumstances. But can you give me the latest update on this patient and the efforts to contact any people within the Dallas/Ft. Worth area or elsewhere even that this patient may have come in contact with in those days that he was not diagnosed with Ebola?

RAWLINGS: Yes, I'm heading to a briefing right now to get a lot more details. But CDC is on the ground and as the chief said, we're taking the direction from them. They've got a very specific protocol, process and discipline that were in place. We know where he was and the folks that he contacted. And we will go about the process with them to make sure that all those individuals are contacted.

BANFIELD: Does it worry you, though, that the airlines are not being notified about who this person is and which flights this person took? Because there was no direct flight, as we understand, direct into Dallas. So there could have been up to three different flights that this person was on, given -- and I have to give the disclaimer here --- apparently he wasn't presenting with the symptoms at that time. But when you're talking about a deadly disease like Ebola, you can't be too careful.

RAWLINGS: Well, you've got to be careful. But I think science is science and it's very clear that a person's not communicable until they start to show symptoms. I spoke to the head of the CDC about this and I'm confident that they're taking all the actions. I've talked to our airport, DFW Airport. They have looked at all the flights and they feel confident as well that those passengers are safe.

BANFIELD: Lieutenant Governor Dewhurst, just with regard to DFW Airport, look, you're the lieutenant governor of this state. There are plenty of airports throughout Texas. And, yes, DFW is the busiest of them. But what are you doing on a state level at this point? I mean there have been some suggestions that doctors and nurses need to be present at airports. Are we there yet?

DEWHURST: Again, let me repeat what the health commissioner has done. He's put out multiple advisories to health care providers, to emergency rooms and to hospitals around the state that on travel and on the symptoms of Ebola.

And so we're doing everything we can to follow protocol and make sure if someone comes in with flu-like symptoms and they've traveled but also to be extra careful to make sure that they're being tested for Ebola.

BANFIELD: It's worrisome, though, when you hear Elizabeth Cohen who, granted, landed in Georgia, she did not land in Texas. But, look, she landed at Atlanta Hartsfield. It's a busy airport as well, and they really didn't seem to know a lot.

They certainly didn't know what symptoms they were telling her to look out for 21 days. It's odd to be told to look out for symptoms, but not know what the symptoms are.

Is that a concern of yours in your state?

DEWHURT: Well, it's a concern. But if there's a silver lining in this, I think everybody in the United States is going to understand --

BANFIELD: It's important. DEWHURST: That's right. It's very important that if you have sudden

fever, if you've got headaches, if you've got diarrhea, if you're vomiting, then it could be more than just the flu. You need to go and see your health professional.

BANFIELD: So we're seeing a lot of these --

DEWHURST: And I might add, if I can, but this can be contained. This can be contained. It's been contained in the United States. It's been contained in different examples in west Africa.

And I would encourage your viewers to go to cdc.gov. It will explain all the symptoms because knowledge is power.

BANFIELD: Yeah, and critically now --

DEWHURST: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: -- I think there are a lot of very nervous people who may be in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. Stand by on that thought, if you would.

DEWHURST: But keep in mind, when he traveled, he did not have any of the symptoms so he was not contagious.

BANFIELD: True. Again, and I'm only saying this because there were these critical up to four days --

DEWHURST: I agree.

BANFIELD: -- where this person was in this community, and this is a very busy metroplex.

DEWHURST: But that's why they debriefed him about all of his contacts and are following up as we speak.

BANFIELD: And as we speak, thank you for mentioning it, we're actually getting new information now about the track this patient actually took, because this is now where it is all based on, finding the people who came into contact with this patient who's now in serious condition in Texas.

Coming up after the break, we're going to update you on exactly what that tracking has led to.

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BANFIELD: Welcome back.

I've got some breaking information that obviously with the case of this patient who has now been diagnosed in the United States with Ebola is hospitalized in serious condition in Dallas, Texas, clearly having walked about that community after landing in that community, showing symptoms for approximately four days before being quarantined, clearly the track that passenger took, the people he came into contact with while he had those symptoms is critical, and it is what public health officials, among others, are trying to determine at this time. I can tell you that Reuters is now reporting that via the Liberian information minister, apparently this patient traveled to Dallas, Texas, via Brussels. That's all we're being told at this time.

But there were no direct flights into Dallas from Liberia, so there had to be at a minimum two to three connecting flights this passenger took.

It's important to note that while that passenger was on board airplanes, he was not showing symptoms of Ebola. Therefore, it is thought that he is not contagious at that point. You're only contagious with this disease when you actually show the symptoms.

But at least now we can tell you the passenger traveled, according to Reuters, via Brussels. That information coming to Reuters from the Liberian information minister.

The CDC says the passengers were likely not infected, were likely not in any kind of risk at the time that this happened. Of course, those symptoms weren't showing and yet it's still very concerning.

When you consider that there are no direct flights from Liberia to Dallas, up to three planes possibly to get to Dallas, that's a lot of passengers who probably have a lot of questions at this time.

The concerns are even affecting the stock market. Shares of the major carriers, believe it or not, the airline carriers, fell between two percent and four percent today, pretty astounding to see reverberations that this news is having.

I want to bring in aviation correspondent Rene Marsh -- she's live in Washington right now -- and General Russell Honore, former commander of the joint task force during Hurricane Katrina and author of "Leadership and the New Normal."

Rene, I'd like to start with you, please. I was a bit astounded that the airlines aren't being given full information about this passenger and the flights that the passenger took.

But several airlines are having to answer to people like you in the media, saying, I'm sorry, we just don't know anything. How is that possible?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that is the line we're getting from many of these airlines.

We can tell you that, the CDC, they're being tight-lipped about which airline this individual was on. More specifically, they're not even giving us the flight number, and the reason for that, the CDC says, as you hit right off the top, they're saying that the people on board this flight, they had zero risk, so they don't feel it's necessary to put out that information.

Here's what we do know. We know that the passenger left Africa on September 19th. We know that this individual arrived in Dallas on the 20th. We also know there are no nonstop flights or even one-stop commercial flights from Liberia to Dallas, so the infected passenger had to make at least one stop, perhaps in Europe, before coming to the United States.

Now, it's unclear if those other stops also included other U.S. cities. It really is tough trying to track this all down, Ashleigh, because there are hundreds of possible flight paths here. So without that flight number, it's very difficult.

But so far, we have received statements from a number of airlines, domestic airlines. We have from United Airlines, they tell us, and I'm quoting, "The CDC has not shared any specific patient information that would allow us to confirm whether the traveler's itinerary involved United."

And we got this from American Airlines saying that American Airlines does not fly to Africa, and we have been told that the passenger was not on a connecting flight involving our aircraft. They go on to talk about the guidelines that the CDC put forward and that they are following those guidelines.

Ashleigh, we also spoke with Southwest as well as Delta. They, too, say the CDC has not contacted them.

I want to touch on the breaking news you just talked about off the top, Reuters reporting that this man traveled through Brussels. CNN did make contact with Brussels Airlines. We know that is one of the few airlines that does fly to the areas where this Ebola outbreak is happening. They, too, say they have not been notified by the CDC.

BANFIELD: Nothing?

MARSH: Right. But they tell us that they have Ebola kits on board. They tell us that screening happens at these international airports. So they say they're very --

BANFIELD: It defies logic. It just defies logic, Rene.

And maybe I'll just bring in General Honore at this point. General, I know that you sort of are of the conviction that we may need to start deploying doctors and nurses at airports and really have that as a solid barrier to allowing this disease to penetrate to the United States.

But wouldn't it just be logical to put out as much information as possible to track those who might have come in contact with this person? Yet I understand this was at a time when he apparently wasn't showing the symptoms.

But, again, isn't all information critical information when this is a deadly and mostly untreatable disease?

LIEUTENANT GENERAL RUSSELL HONORE: Right, Ashleigh. And I think it speaks to the fact -- you heard Elizabeth Cohen speak of her experience earlier, the absence of having public health workers in our airports covering international flights.

You know, if you went to Cuba today and you flew into Havana, there would be public health people meeting you as you come off the plane. And you see them talking to the screeners, to the immigration people and educating them.

We don't see that in America. We're going to have to relook at how we deal with public health and make sure it's integrated.

I would bet you, if you go to that hospital where this discovery occurred, you would have a hard time finding public health people talking and reminding people who are processing people into the hospital that they need to ask those questions.

And where is the simple sign, have you been to Africa? Have you come out of Liberia? Just a simple sign beyond us concerned about HIPAA Act. Keep it simple. How we take the complex and make it simple.

As well as the experience, Ashleigh, with asking those immigration guards as you come into the country that train to look for terrorists as opposed to looking for health symptoms.

BANFIELD: Yeah. Yeah, and maybe that's the issue. They really need to start looking very seriously at both.

Rene Marsh and General Russell Honore, thank you both to you.

By the way, you probably have a lot of questions given this alarming news out of Dallas about Ebola, and we are answering your questions all day on CNN. Specifically this hour, we are wall to wall with this issue.

You can tweet out your questions, using the hash tag, #EbolaQandA -- the word "and" -- #EbolaQandA.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to stick with me throughout the hour, along with infectious disease specialist Dr. Ian Lipkin. He's from Columbia University. They're going to answer your questions.

And just ahead, we're going to talk about the potential for the Ebola virus to spread farther than just where it is right now in Dallas.

Could it actually spread outside of Dallas, and what are we to do about it? That's next.

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