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Biden: U.S. Allies Partly to Blame for ISIS; Pope Francis Holding Special Meeting; Amazon Finds Hit in "Transparent"

Aired October 06, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Carol Costello.

Vice President Joe Biden talking tough about our Middle Eastern allies saying they are partly to blame for the rise of ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our allies in the region are our largest problem in Syria. They were so determined to take down Assad and essentially have a proxy Sunni/Shia war, what did they do? They poured hundreds of millions of dollars and thousands of tons of weapons into anyone who would fight against Assad.

Except that the people who were being supplied were al Nusra and al Qaeda and the extremist elements of jihadis coming from other parts of the world. Now Saudi Arabia has stopped the funding going in, Saudi Arabia's allowing training on its soil of American forces under Title 10, open training. The Qataris have cut off their support for the most extreme elements of the terrorist organizations and the Turks, President Erdogan told me -- he's an old friend -- said you were right, we let too many people through. Now they're trying to seal their border.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: I don't think he's so friendly with the Turkish prime minister right at this moment. Those remarks coming as the U.S. tries to maintain a coalition in order to achieve its goal of degrading and destroying ISIS. And despite an apology from Biden over the weekend Turkish officials, as you might have guessed, are not too happy.

The country's prime minister is pushing back telling CNN's Christiane Amanpour the comments were unfair and slamming the United States' own border problems.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AHMET DAVUTOGLU, PRIME MINISTER OF TURKEY: What we expect, Christiane, are too things -- fairness and empathy. First, empathy -- the United States of America has border with Mexico and there are two states on both sides. Is it easy to control all the borders? 1.6 million people came -- this is the combined total population of Washington, D.C., Boston, and Atlanta. You can imagine which type of risks and challenges we are facing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's talk about this. Marc Lamont Hill is a CNN commentator and host for "Huff Post Live". Ross Douthat is a CNN political commentator and "New York Times" op-ed columnist in. Welcome to both of you.

ROSS DOUTHAT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

So Marc, Biden says he's sorry but you heard the Turkish prime minister, he is not happy. How damaging were these comments?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not sure they were overall considerably damaging. Joe Biden had the audacity to tell the truth, right, that Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, you know, that they played a critical and pivotal role in expanding and emboldening and funding ISIS. I don't think that that's really a disputable claim.

It's not the best diplomatic strategy and I think he oversimplified Turkey's dilemma which is a very complicated one. You know, the anti- ISIS coalition, like the PKK, that actually hurts Turkey's interest in the broader scope in terms of a free Kurdistan. So this is a very complicated relationship but Joe Biden didn't say anything crazy. This isn't crazy Uncle Joe.

COSTELLO: No, he didn't say anything crazy --

HILL: This is somebody with the audacity to tell the truth.

COSTELLO: But, Ross, audacity at this particular time when we desperately need Turkey's help to fight ISIS on the ground? Come on.

DOUTHAT: Right. I mean what's the famous Michael Kinsley definition of a gaffe is when a politician in Washington accidentally speaks the truth. And that's basically what happened here. And, you know, Biden commits both -- all kinds of gaffes all the time and we sort of roll our eyes and shrug because, hey, it's Joe Biden.

But in this case speaking hard truths at a moment when you're trying to hold a pretty fragile military coalition together is a pretty significant foul up. And it doesn't mean that, you know, this is going to fracture the coalition because obviously you have real interests at stake here and the powers in the Middle East have basically figured out belatedly that ISIS and their caliphate is a threat to them as well.

So I don't think you're going to see countries pulling out of the coalition over something like this. But it is not a -- it's a badly timed piece of truth telling, to put it mildly.

COSTELLO: A badly timed bit of truth telling. But I want to get back to the Turkish prime minister's comments. You know he answered Joe Biden's -- he said that we owe Turkey fairness and empathy in light of our own border crisis. Can you compare Turkey's border crisis with our own between Mexico and Texas, Marc?

HILL: That's a heck of a leap, in my estimation. A border crisis is a border crisis on a certain level but the border crisis in Turkey is about smuggling oil reserves, it's about emboldening one of the most dangerous and well-funded terrorist networks we've seen in recent memory, if not in history as opposed to what's going on, on the Mexican border which I think is a crisis in terms of drug smuggling and in terms of violence and in terms of state violence against immigrants.

I think they're both dangerous but I think the ISIS thing is an apple and this is an orange.

COSTELLO: Do you think so, Ross? Because a porous border is a porous boarder is a porous border.

DOUTHAT: Well, his point is fair in the sense that there's no world in which the Turkish government can maintain absolute control over who gets across its board into Syria or Iraq or Kurdistan or wherever. What is unfair is that clearly as Marc suggested, Turkey is balancing a bunch of very complicated strategic interests in the region, trying to -- they're friendly with certain elements within the Kurdish region, they've sort of made -- taken steps towards dealing with their own Kurdish minority problem but at the same time they have very complicated interests around Syria and it's just -- there's a strategic element, obviously, and games that Turkey is playing that the U.S. just fortunately doesn't have to worry about in the case of its relationship with Mexico.

HILL: That's where I think Turkey is --

COSTELLO: Go ahead.

HILL: I was going to say that's why I think Turkey's situation is a little bit different than Qatar and Saudi Arabia. Qatar and Saudi Arabia are the only two kind of Wahhabi/Salafi nation states that had that as a sort of legal basis and they helped create ISIS and now they're endangered by ISIS. So no matter what Joe Biden says it's still in their interest to fight ISIS.

Turkey -- it's not necessarily in Turkey's best interest to fight ISIS in the way that the United States has wanted to. That's the difference here. That's why Turkey was to so late to the game. Turkey was so late to vote on going to Syria in Iraq and that's exactly why Turkey right now is saying wait a minute, you're about to give diplomatic and military strength to anti-Turkish forces, forces that the United States themselves deemed as terrorists just a few months ago in terms of the PKK, the Turkish workers party.

So this is a very dangerous thing. I wouldn't be surprised if Turkey uses this as an excuse to renege.

COSTELLO: Oh, gosh, I hope not. Well, actually --

HILL: I hope I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. COSTELLO: If Kobani falls, which is a stone's throw away from the

Turkish border, Turkey is going to have to react or ISIS may -- who knows what ISIS does -- right.

DOUTHAT: Well, right. I mean this is the thing. As much as Turkey has that -- has the set of interests Marc describes, Turkey also has an interest in not having the country next door to them run by an Islamic caliphate. And Turkey also has the sort of elephant in the room here is the question of ground forces, obviously -- U.S. ground forces, other ground forces. Turkey has a much more plausible military force than at least right now the Iraqi army. So that's an element that's going to be in play going forward.

COSTELLO: I think everybody does. Yes.

HILL: Ross, I think you and I are more --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: I have to leave it there. I don't mean to laugh but you have to laugh or you'll cry. Ross Douthat, Marc Lamont Hill -- thanks so much.

DOUTHAT: Thanks Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the newsroom, Pope Francis is going there. He's convened church leaders from around the globe to tackle everything from birth control to same-sex marriage. A live report -- just ahead.

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COSTELLO: CNN Vatican correspondent, Delia Gallagher, live in Rome to tell us more. Hi, Delia.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Carol. It's a rare opportunity for bishops and cardinals from around the world to come together and hash out what they really think about some of these issues. As you mentioned, the Pope said to them just this morning he wants a frank and open discussion, everything out on the table. He doesn't want anybody to feel intimidated because the Pope is there feeling like they have to say something that the Pope's going to like or not say something that the Pope might not like. So he is definitely setting a tone for a frank discussion.

That being said, this is an international meeting which means what's important for one country isn't necessarily important for another country. So, for example, I've just come from a briefing where one of the Latin American bishops said for us, the questions are not about divorce or same sex union, it's about immigration. For us, problems facing the family have to do about immigration. For the Africans it's about polygamy. So there are a number of issues depending on what country they're from that are going to be discussed at this meeting.

It's a two-week meeting. Expectations are high that there might be some big change coming out but this is a preliminary meeting Carol which means there will be a bigger one next year in October. This is just to set the ball rolling, as it were, start the discussion and then any decisions that are going to be made, any changes, will happen next year in October -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Delia Gallagher reporting live from Rome.

But, of course, here in the United States family is a very important issue. The role of the family is a moral issue but it's a practical issue, too. All religions are grappling with a cultural shift that's pushed young people out of the church. According to a Pew poll, just 36 percent of millennials consider themselves religious. And just 58 percent are certain God even exists.

Some believe the reason so many young people are feeling -- fleeing organized religion is the breakdown of the traditional family and the decline of marriage in North America. How do you bring young people back? Is it as simple as Cardinal Timothy Dolan told Crux? Quote, "What I hope the synod does instead is look at the bigger picture, figuring out ways to reintroduce people to the romance and adventure of a faithful, loving marriage."

Is it as simple as that? Let's talk about it.

Father Edward Beck is a CNN religion commentator and host of "Sunday Mass" and the Reverend Jamal Bryant is the pastor at the Empowerment Temple Church in Baltimore. Welcome to you both.

REV. JAMAL BRYANT, EMPOWERMENT TEMPLE CHURCH: Thank you so much.

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION COMMENTATOR: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Thank you for being here.

So Father Beck, with all due respect everybody wants a romantic faithful marriage but sometimes it isn't all that. Isn't it a little naive to think the church can convince people to stay married when they don't want to? They don't even believe in marriage anymore sometimes.

BECK: Well, Carol, I don't think that the church wants people to stay married just for the sake of staying married. But I don't think that they want them to walk away too easily, either. It's kind of a throw- away culture. You don't want to do that with marriage. Jesus says man and woman forever. Man shall not dissolute that bond.

So I think what the church is trying to say is yes, there are certain instances where people should not be together. That's what the annulment is for. They should have never been married in the first place but not to just say that easily do you do that because marriage is something that's sacred, you say yes before a community, before God, and you have to work at it. That's what the church is saying. Take it as a sacred bond, not just a throw away.

COSTELLO: Pastor Bryant, what do you think? Do you think that the dissolution of the family is the reason so many young people are fleeing marriage, as Father Beck writes? BRYANT: I think that America has really lowered the standard of our

appreciation and affection for faith. When you will consider that this is the generation that had to live through taking prayer out of schools and the moment that we did that is when guns showed up in the schools.

I think that we've got to really recalibrate if we call ourselves a Christian nation how are we really expressing that faith. And you're looking at a generation that is operating with clear cynicism that we say "In God We Trust" but they're not seeing any evidence of that.

COSTELLO: Well, I will say this and I want to throw this in to Father Beck, because times have certainly changed. The Catholic Church found people no longer think the church is a moral guide for issues relating to the family. They think it's a private matter. So they don't trust their religious organizations to make moral choices for them anymore. And that's really the problem, isn't it?

BECK: It's part of the problem. But, you know, I say mass every week here in the city and there's a lot of young people there and I preached just last night about this whole synod on the family. I can't tell you how many young people came up to me and said I hope the church is very definite about what it believes about birth control, about marriage. These are young people more conservative than their parents. So I think it's a mistake just to think because they're young they want everything to be lax.

Young people are walking away from institutions in general -- political institutions and religious institutions. They're seeking spirituality on the Internet. They're getting social clubs, social groups -- that's where they're being fed. So I don't think we can put them all to one category and say well, they just have no morals. They just don't want it that way.

COSTELLO: And I hear what you're saying but Pastor Bryant, I think that there is a distrust of many institutions in our country and that's really the reason that young people are walking away. How do you restore the faith in our institutions?

BRYANT: I think that our young people are really looking for leadership. You would never find a Muslim summit to re-evaluate what your core values and believes are. There are 37 -- 52 different translations of the bible, there's only one translation of the Koran. And I think that Christianity has done so much in trying to remarket and rebrand where it is, where young people are looking for a level of consistency.

When you see the numbers of young people who are in the streets of Ferguson, Missouri they believe that justice ought to prevail. But they're not seeing where that direction is coming from, from the church, or any of our traditional leadership and so they are organically trying to find where are we. This is really a throwback to the generation that used to say don't trust anybody over 30. So I don't think that this is the first time America has ever seen it. I think it's just been rebranded. COSTELLO: But only 38 percent of young people consider themselves

religious. Only 58 percent of young people are certain that God exists. That has to concern both of you.

BECK: But then they'll tell you they're spiritual though. They may not be religious but they're spiritual.

BRYANT: Right.

BECK: Can we build on that spirituality? Maybe institutionalism isn't doing it for them right now, but let's get to the heart of why are they spiritual. How can we foster that? Let's be inclusive, not shun them because maybe they're not showing up every week.

COSTELLO: Last word, Pastor Bryant?

BRYANT: I think that that's absolutely correct and I think that spirituality has got to be discipled. There's got to be something greater than just coming to church on Sunday but are we really making disciples? I think the church has really just focused on bringing in members but not really developing Christians and I think that's the next frontier.

COSTELLO: All right. Pastor Jamal Bryant, Father Edward Back, thanks to you both. I appreciate it.

I'll be right back.

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COSTELLO: First, Netflix created huge buzz with original series like "House of Cards". Now Amazon has a hit of its own. That's right, the online retail giant isn't just selling books and gadgets these days they're producing their own streaming series for prime members and the new latest release "Transparent" is getting huge critical acclaim.

CNN's Samuel Burke joins me now for more -- just so many choices.

SAMUEL BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

COSTELLO: It's a good thing, right?

BURKE: Yes, it could be good for consumers. Ever since Yahoo -- rather ever since Netflix launched their own original series, everybody has been trying to duplicate their success -- Yahoo, Hulu, and now Amazon and this role of a 70-year-old transgender character might just give Netflix a run for its money.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BURKE: Closely kept secrets typically make for titillating television.

JEFFREY TAMBOR, ACTOR: So I have something to tell you.

BURKE: Now the new groundbreaking series "transparent" is tackling a topic that TV has rarely touched.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dad is a woman.

BURKE: Following in Netflix' footsteps, the ten episodes are available streaming on Amazon Prime's video service to critical acclaim.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I've never seen it before where so many critics have lined up in front of a show that otherwise would never be heard of and it all said watch this show, it's the best new show of the fall.

BURKE: Actor Jeffrey Tambor says the enormity of playing a transgender character weighed heavily on him.

TAMBOR: I said I was throw-up nervous. There's a scene where I have to come out to Sara, my daughter and my hands were shaking. I said, well, that's good for Moira but Jeffrey was shaking not because I wanted a good review or not because I wanted to be believable in the scene but I wanted to do it right.

BURKE: The creator and director of the series, whose own parent came out as transgender, says even she is surprised at just how much people say they relate to the main character.

JILL SOLOWAY, CREATOR AND DIRECTOR, "TRANSPARENT": I think my fear was that certain people probably wouldn't turn it on because they would say this show doesn't relate to me. But I think what's so amazing about what's so amazing about what Jeffrey Tambor has done with his performance of Moira has been to create somebody that feels really familiar.

BURKE: Amazon sees "Transparent" as its answer to the success of Netflix series "House of Cards" and hopes it will drive people to their Amazon prime video service.

STELTER: To have the best new show of the fall airing not on the television network, not even on a cable channel but on a service where you can also buy underwear, that is a revolutionary moment. That's a moment where you stop and think about the fact that television, great television, can come from anywhere now.

BURKE: Jill Soloway says Amazon's hands-off approach gave her incredible creative liberty and she says streaming the series online is changing the viewers' experience.

SOLOWAY: The binge thing is something that Netflix and Amazon have a corner on right now. There's something about the Internet and a communal way of experiencing things together that is so perfect for "Transparent" and it makes me feel like we just hit the right show at the right time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you saying that you're going to dressing up like a lady all the time.

TAMBOR: All my life, my whole life I've been dressing up like a man. This is me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURKE: So Carol, when Jeffrey Tambor was here in the studios everybody was asking him, how do I see this thing? He said well, at the very least you can sign up for the free 30-day trial on Amazon.com and watch it through Amazon Prime. He was excited to see everything here at CNN though and he was so excited when he got to take some pictures with you. I caught him just taking selfies around the offices. And so when he saw you he was absolutely thrilled.

COSTELLO: He was so sweet and I was surprised at how shy he seemed but you said once he opened up he was the old Jeffrey Tambor.

BURKE: And you know, it's interesting because now he's an old time actor let's say who's straddling two different streaming companies. He had "Arrested Development" on Netflix and now on Amazon. So he's really moved into the future.

COSTELLO: Well, it's great he gets to be extra creative, you know, in these forums because, you know, on traditional broadcast television you can't really do that these days.

BURKE: You have two transgender characters Laverne Cox with her role on "Orange is the New Black" and now this transgender character both on streaming series.

COSTELLO: Samuel Burke, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

Checking some other top stories for you this morning at 55 minutes past --

The next phase in the search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is under way. Australian transport officials say the search vessel "Go Phoenix" and two others will conduct detailed sonar sweeps in the southern Indian Ocean in an effort to find the wreckage. The flight disappeared back in March with 239 people on board.

The parents of missing college student Hannah Graham released an emotional video pleading for information that will help find their daughter and end their nightmare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUE GRAHAM, HANNAH GRAHAM'S MOTHER: Despite all of your efforts, Hannah is still missing. Somebody listening to me today either knows where Hannah is or knows someone who has that information. We appeal to you to come forward and tell us where Hannah can be found.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Hannah, an 18-year-old University of Virginia sophomore, was last seen on September 13.

I'm going to be doing a live Facebook chat today about sexual assault and you know some say that the way women dress invites sexual predators. I say that's ridiculous. It's absolute bunk. But I want to talk about this very important topic.

Why do we insist on blaming victims of sexual assault? So join me for this talkback event 12:00 p.m. Eastern on Facebook, facebook.com/CarolCNN or you can tweet me @CarolCNN.

Thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

@THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA after a break.

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