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Costly Gaffe Or Hard Truth?; Supreme Court Rejects Same-Sex Marriage Review; Mike Rowe, The QVC Salesman

Aired October 06, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: But let's discuss, because this has bigger, much greater ramifications, with S.E. Cupp, host of CNN's "CROSSFIRE," Christopher Dickey, the foreign editor of The Daily Beast.

Welcome to both of you.

And, Chris Dickey, I'm going to start with you in Paris.

Listen, clearly, Joe Biden broke some sort of unwritten diplomatic rules here. But was it the substance of what he said that got him in trouble or was it the fact that he just said this in a public forum?

CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, I think both. I think the Turks have been unwilling to admit what's been going on and everybody has known that it's going on, which is that most of the jihadist that have gone in from overseas into Syria have been going in through Turkey.

They have essentially had a free pass to move through Turkey for a long time. A lot of weapons and even some heavy weapons that have gone into ISIS over the last couple of years wherein its precursor group and now ISIS came through Turkey.

Everybody knew that. Everybody knows that. The money that was going in, the resources that were going in to fight Assad were being funneled into these extremists organizations. In fact, the Saudis and the Qataris, the United Arab Emirates and Turks were pretty indiscriminate about where all those resources were going and they wound up feeding on those and ISIS.

Biden simply stated that as the truth and it is the truth. There are other truths. There are broader truths. There are bigger questions and then there is diplomacy. In the Middle East, people are not supposed to say exactly what they think and that's what Biden was doing and that was what was inexcusable.

BALDWIN: That is precisely what he did. We hear back at home that's Biden being Biden, but is this a gaffe? We talked about diplomacy that goes way too far. I wonder about the far reaching consequences of this gaffe.

S.E. CUPP, CNN HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Chris is right and Chris knows better than most because there's been excellent reporting in "The Daily Beast" about Turkey's role in emboldening ISIS especially when it comes to the city of Kobani.

Jaime Debron of "The Daily Beast" just recently reported last week that as Kobani was being taken over by ISIS, Turkish soldiers just a mile over the border were seen chatting and cooking.

So you can understand Joe Biden's frustration, but his indictment is startlingly incomplete. You know, as far back as 2012, his own administration, the United States, was asking Turkey and Jordan and other Arab allies to help arm and train Syrian rebels.

If they're responsible, I think so are we. As for politics of this, Joe Biden often forgets that he's a proxy voice for both the president and American policy. He forgets this.

He did this back in 2012 when he sort of got ahead of the president on gay marriage. He later apologized to the president for that. He said that I didn't offer up and volunteer a position, but I asked a question and I answered it.

Of course, he did volunteer a position. The president's position and he did the same thing here. He volunteered a position that spoke for the United States and it's not one that the United States really wanted out there just right now.

BALDWIN: But at the same time, we also have talked about Vice President Biden in the sense when this whole story was truly, truly percolating. We haven't really heard very strongly from the president, but members of his cabinet. We've heard it from the vice president.

You know, words something like we'll follow you to the gates of hell and everyone said where is that from the president? That was the vice president in a different sense.

But let me, Chris, to you. I know that Christiane Amanpour spoke to the Turkish prime minister about these comments that Vice President Joe Biden made and he said, basically, listen, I can't keep track of every single person that crosses my borders just as the United States can't keep track of everyone that crosses the border from Mexico.

My question to you is looking forward, how might these comments -- you talk about the facts and diplomacy, how might this derail any involvement from Turkey in this coalition?

DICKEY: You know, I think it's one of those things that Turkey might use as an excuse if it wants to get out of the coalition or if it wants to do even less than it's been doing which would be hard to imagine.

BALDWIN: Hurt feelings?

DICKEY: Right now we talk about Kobani. Come on, the Turks are always talking about their dignity and honor and that's fine. They should have dignity and honor. They are a proud people and a great people. But they are the one particularly is almost a personal vendetta against Assad. Assad is a terrible dictator who has contributed to the death of hundreds of thousands of people.

But long before that, he was turned on him and has made it his mission to get rid of him. That's his first priority. His second priority is to keep the Kurds in place and his third priority is ISIS. Right now that's the total reverse of the American priorities and that's a real problem.

BALDWIN: Chris Dickey and S.E. Cupp, thank you both for the discussion. Let me remind all of you tonight on CNN, special investigation into the funding of ISIS. How does the terror group get its money? What's the U.S. doing to try to stop that flow? The ISIS money trail on Erin Burnett "OUTFRONT" 7:00 Eastern here on CNN.

Coming up next, a surprise decision by the Supreme Court. Justices deciding not to take on same-sex marriage and that could have an impact on a dozen states across the country. We'll explain next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: So because the Supreme Court did not do today, same-sex marriage is on the road to becoming legal in the majority of states. Before today it was allowed in 19 states. Look at my map. The ones in yellow.

This morning the justices announced they will not review appeals from five states trying to keep bans on same-sex marriage and so the courts lack of action means 11 more states will likely permit same-sex marriage bringing the total to 30.

CNN's senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin joins me. There he is. Can you explain why the rejection of this review will lead to these additional states allowing for same-sex marriage?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Here's the deal. What happened was three federal appeals courts held that there is a right to same-sex marriage. The opponents appealed and said, no, reinstate the ban on same-sex marriage.

What the Supreme Court did today was nothing. They left standing the rulings of lower courts that said these bans in the five states, which represents 11 states, those bans are gone now.

This is not to say the Supreme Court couldn't down the road revisit the issue and say we will look at this issue and rule the other way, but for the time being 30 states with more than 60 percent of the population all those states now have same-sex marriage.

BALDWIN: That was my next question I think you kind of answered it. I wonder if this inaction/action would mean that this was it as far as debate at the U.S. Supreme Court. I think you're saying they can change their minds.

TOOBIN: No. In fact, there are some cases pending in Courts of Appeals where it looks like based on the judges who are ruling they might rule against same-sex marriage and that the point you would have a conflict.

You have some appeals courts ruling one way and some appeals courts rule the other and that case, the Supreme Court would almost certainly have to take up the issue and then, you know, all bets would be off.

But you know, these decisions have their own momentum. It's just very hard to imagine that once you have 30 states with same-sex marriage, the pendulum is going to swing the other way.

BALDWIN: Jeffrey Toobin, thank you very much for me in Washington today. I appreciate it.

Coming up, he has done everything from selling pens on QVC to singing in an opera to working America's dirtiest jobs. Coming up, Mr. Mike Rowe himself will be joining the CNN family with his new show "SOMEBODY'S GOT TO DO IT."

Coming up next, the preview of that next show. He'll join me on set and we will ask him about one of the jobs you may not know about, as you mentioned a moment ago, opera singer? He'll explain that one coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Mike Rowe, a man who wears many hats and has worked many jobs and has sold you cat toys or a cat bag. We're going there, Rowe. Lava lamps on QVC's home shopping network. Took you anywhere from coal mines to crab boats on the Discovery Channel's series "Dirty Jobs."

This guy even faked his way into being an opera singer in his hometown of Baltimore. It's here at CNN where Mike Rowe plans to take you to the people in CNN's newest original series, "SOMEBODY'S GOT TO DO IT."

Rowe introduces you to innovators, fanatics, people who simply have to do it. Here he is sitting on set with me. I thought you were going to stand me up. You made it.

MIKE ROWE, CNN HOST, "SOMEBODY'S GOT TO DO IT": I don't know, but the way you said all that, it really made it interesting.

BALDWIN: I mean, you're kind of like a big deal apparently.

ROWE: I was hanging on every word you were saying and I was believing most of it. Thank you.

BALDWIN: You're welcome.

ROWE: Thanks for coming to my party.

BALDWIN: You're welcome, by the way. Thanks for having us.

ROWE: They threw me a party. BALDWIN: A little bit of a shindig, which was kind of awesome. We have pictures. You may want to hold off on thanking me. Hang on a second. Roll the clip. Get excited for Wednesday.

ROWE: Clips.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROWE: My wet suit is on backwards and my might care when I go down to depth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything squeezes. You may want to change that.

ROWE: Zip me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How does that fit now?

ROWE: It feels like a dream.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nicely done.

ROWE: Yes, thanks. How are you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good. How are you doing?

ROWE: I feel great thanks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You'll feel even better in the deep pool.

ROWE (voice-over): Getting in the water here is complicated.

(on camera): Building suspense.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: So he's in the wet suit, which we'll talk a ton about that obviously. But opera singer to somebody's got to do it I'm not sure of the segue way, but can we begin with the Baltimore opera? How did that happen?

ROWE: It's a crooked road. The opera was 1984. Back in Baltimore in 1984 the unions were a big deal. I wanted to work in acting and commercials and I had to be in the Screen Actors Guild or the American Federation of Television and Radio Arts.

But I couldn't get into either union because you can't back then you couldn't do that kind of work unless you were in the union, but you couldn't do the union work unless you had your union card and you couldn't get your union card unless you had done the work. There was a loophole.

Another union that if you could get into that guild, you can buy your membership into the other guilds and that guild oversaw the opera. So long story short, it occurred to me I would have a better chance of faking my way into the opera than I would into the movies. So I learned the shortest one I could find and I auditioned and I got in. BALDWIN: Do you remember it?

ROWE: Yes.

BALDWIN: We're in the middle of the newsroom. These people would get woken up. Let's go, Rowe. Seriously live on CNN.

ROWE: Wake up, you producers.

BALDWIN: Yes! Everyone is sort of looking up to show how much we appreciate it. Thank you so much. So from opera to QVC, you faked your way to get the union card to go in the opera. I'm going there. Somebody has got to do it. Hold on. Take a look.

ROWE: All right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROWE: So a guy walks into a bar. My God. Remember "The Gong Show." Of course, you do. If I were a cat, I would love this because cats love that sound. The sound makes cats crazy. They love it. That's why this is a cat toy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: It's a cat bag.

ROWE: Yes, it's a cat bag.

BALDWIN: That you were selling?

ROWE: Yes, it's a cat sack.

BALDWIN: Look how far you have come. Look at you, at CNN from there.

ROWE: I can't take my eyes off me. Hold 28 years old, 28 years old. Westchester, Pennsylvania. That's about 3:00 in the morning.

BALDWIN: At 3:00 in the morning. Working overnights?

ROWE: Back in those days, there was no playbook on how to hire a host. Nobody knew what it was in 1989.

BALDWIN: Really?

ROWE: Just mean. Just plain mean. If you could talk about a pencil for 8 minutes, you got a three-month probationary shot.

BALDWIN: If you can talk about a trophy in 30 seconds, I won a standup comedy contest a couple of weekends ago.

ROWE: The 2014 New York's funniest reporter show champion?

BALDWIN: How would you sell that to someone?

ROWE: I would say that if you are in the market for collecting trophies, let me just direct your attention to this little gem right here. It looks like it's made of chrome and plastic, but that's only because of the plastic and chrome in it.

It has a light coating of fake gold stuff and that's because, of course, we can't really spring for the real gold. But look how beautiful it will shine and shimmer on your mantle next to all your other fake expressions of mediocrity in an age when everybody gets trophy. Surely, you deserve something --

BALDWIN: Thank you so much.

ROWE: Plus, you can fill it with booze.

BALDWIN: Good one. So the real reason you're here. We're so excited to have you as part of the CNN family.

ROWE: I'm going to keep it right here.

BALDWIN: This show -- everyone knows you for "Dirty Jobs." What I'm so excited for you and being at your party is about the people, not necessarily the dirty jobs to tell, but the stories people have to tell.

When we come back, we're going to go into the people. In order to be on CNN, on this show, we have to do a little hazing, which is a little word association game.

ROWE: I'll play.

BALDWIN: He's playing.

ROWE: You know what I love about you? Earlier she said, "Kill the prompter. Take everything off the prompter." That makes me happy.

BALDWIN: I did. We're going rogue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Mike Rowe, now part of the CNN family. You have been amazing up here singing, poking a little fun at your QVC days. Here you are at CNN. We have pictures of your parents. They must be pretty darn proud.

ROWE: They say they're proud. They're both accomplished actors. You can't believe anything they say. There we were at the ball game two days ago.

BALDWIN: Mom and dad.

ROWE: They were so excited. My mother was screaming at the top of her lungs and holding her ears at the same time.

BALDWIN: Over the game. Not over you working at CNN.

ROWE: Well. Her mom, my nanna, threw out the first pitch ten years ago at an Orioles game and she's like a legend in Baltimore. She fell and broke her hip -- this is not funny.

BALDWIN: It should not be funny.

ROWE: But she was in the living room. She was watching the game in the den and the phone was in the kitchen. So she could either crawl to the kitchen to call 911 or crawl back to the den to watch the end of the Orioles game.

BALDWIN: She watched the game.

ROWE: She crawled to the den, then crawled to the phone. My mother wrote a story about it and the Baltimore Orioles gave her a box and let her throw out the first pitch.

BALDWIN: Get out of here.

ROWE: We go way back with the Orioles.

BALDWIN: Tell me about "SOMEBODY'S GOT TO DO IT." It's about the people.

ROWE: I mean, look, people always say, somebody's got to do it, a continuation of "Dirty Jobs." It's a fair question because you spend ten years and 300 jobs in all 50 states doing stuff.

But the truth is, "Dirty jobs" began with a little segment called "Somebody's Got To Do It" on CBS in San Francisco where I live. And what I wanted to do was pick up where I started. It was not only about dirt, grime, slime and overtime.

It's about people, passion and people who wake up kind of agitated because the world's not the way they want it or they have something that completely drives them. Those are the people I find the most interesting. But they weren't dirty enough to feature.

BALDWIN: To make the cut.

ROWE: So now I'm circling back.

BALDWIN: So tell me about -- we're watching some of the clips. This is the first episode on Wednesday.

ROWE: This is the first show. We went to Las Vegas because I heard a story about -- I'm going to say the greatest stagehand in the world. He oversees the most hazardous show I've ever seen. I couldn't tell you what the plot is about.

But these boneless people fly through the air, drop off 80 feet off the ceiling into a pool and then a stage goes over the top of the pool. So they're scuba divers, crazy acrobatics and one guy is in charge of all of it.

So I wanted to meet him to get a sense of what it's like to be that far behind the scenes in a show that's that level of spectacle. That's dale there. We were just looking at Chris. She's in charge of everybody who dives. BALDWIN: Awesome.

ROWE: It's actually mind-blowing.

BALDWIN: I can't wait. It begins Wednesday. When I have you -- 60 seconds, can we do a little word association? I want you to just say whatever comes to mind.

ROWE: Sure.

BALDWIN: Number one, we're going to start easy, CNN?

ROWE: This is.

BALDWIN: Dirty?

ROWE: Mike.

BALDWIN: Biggest regret?

ROWE: That won't get you fired? None.

BALDWIN: Politics?

ROWE: No.

BALDWIN: Marriage?

ROWE: Maybe.

BALDWIN: Roger Goodell?

ROWE: No. Will not marry him.

BALDWIN: And finally, luckiest moment?

ROWE: Counting this one?

BALDWIN: No, be real.

ROWE: My luckiest moment, 1962, March. There I was minding my own business, in the womb, and then bang, here I am, out in the world, walking around, fogging a mirror. Fogging a mirror.

BALDWIN: Broke the mirror. Make sure you watch this guy Wednesday night, "SOMEBODY'S GOT TO DO IT" debuts at 9:00 Eastern. You're a dear.

ROWE: You're a dear.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much. We have to go to Washington. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts.

ROWE: I like Jake Tapper.

BALDWIN: I do, too.