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Dr. Drew

TV Star Subject of Molestation Investigation; New Fears About Ebola`s Spread; Possible Scenarios of Ebola Outbreaks in the United States; Doctor Concerned with CDC Lack of Action; Traffic Stop Turned Violent in Indiana

Aired October 07, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a TV dad accused of molesting little girl. "7th Heaven`s" Stephen Collins is the target of a

police investigation. His estranged wife may have recorded his alleged admissions.

Plus -- a man is tased by police, as two terrified children watch from the back seat.

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Good evening, everyone. My co-host is Samantha Schacher.

And coming up, hear from the man who was tased. You saw him in that video during a controversial traffic stop.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: That`s right, Dr. Drew. He is speaking out for the first time tonight and this is our most tweeted about story of the

day.

PINSKY: All right. First up, though, we`ll get into this story about actor Stephen Collins who played a minister, of course, on the TV show "7th

Heaven". He is under investigation. He is accused by his estranged wife Faye Grant in court documents of having molested under age girls.

CNN has repeatedly asked Collins and Grant`s representatives repeatedly for comment. They have not responded as we go to air tonight.

Joining us, Karamo Brown, host of #OWNShow on Oprah.com, Anahita Sedaghatfar from AnahitaLaw.com, Alison Bedell, private investigator, and

co-host "Catch a Contractor" on Spike Television.

On the phone, I have CNN correspondent Sara Sidner.

Sara, give me an update.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Here`s what we know. The NYPD special victims squad is investigating a sexual assault complaint

against Stephen Collins after an allegation surfaced back in 2012 that he sexually assaulted his -- one of his estranged wife`s relatives.

Now, here`s what we can tell you: the woman went to police. The alleged victim went to police in November and she told police that she was sexually

assaulted by Stephen Collins, which she was a girl of about 14 years old, in his Greenwich Village apartment. The police were also told that she was

watching television when Collins forced her to touch his private parts.

That is what we know from the New York police. But we also know that this is coming to light now but it actually is reported to have happened 40

years ago.

And so, this is all coming to light because TMZ has a recording that they say was Collins` wife basically making some incriminating statements about

himself, and then according to TMZ, that recording was made by Collins` estranged wife Faye Grant, during a counseling session.

Now, we`ve not been able to confirm whether the recordings are indeed Collins` voice, or whether the recordings were edited in any way.

We can tell that you that his estranged wife has spoken now to E! News in an exclusive statement saying she woke up to learn that the extremely

private recordings that she handed over to authorities in 2012, according to her, was given to the authorities. There was a criminal investigation.

And she said, I didn`t have any involvement whatsoever with it being released to the media -- which is what we are now seeing from TMZ. They

released that tape. There is audio tape that is out there.

So, right now, what we`re waiting for is to hear anything from Collins. He has not returned our phone calls. His representatives have not returned

our phone calls.

What we do know that he has never been charged. And remember, that this case is from two years ago.

There is also -- the Los Angeles Police Department also looked into a case that came up against him, a criminal case. But they said they had no

victim, nobody filed a police report so that case was closed. That again was back in 2012.

So, that`s where we leave it now. We do know that TV program that he used to be very popular in, "7th Heaven", the reruns have been canceled. And he

has resigned his position on the national board of the Screen Actors Guild at this hour -- Drew.

PINSKY: OK. Thank you, Sara, for that update.

And, Sam, I guess the reaction in Hollywood has been rather intense. She has alluded to some of that.

I`ve got to tell you, I`ve been hearing from his friends and the people that knew him well cannot process this, cannot believe this. I have real

problems with the fact that a therapy session becomes public information. I don`t care -- that`s separate from whether it is him or whether he did it

or anything. For God`s sake, this -- you can`t have a therapy session without somebody running a tape-recorder? This is unconscionable.

But, Sam, what is going on there in Hollywood?

SCHACHER: Well, you heard from Sara that he not only resign from the Screen Actors Guild, but also, UP TV pulled the "7th Heaven" reruns. Also,

he`s been tired from "Ted 2".

PINSKY: All right. Now, Alison, you`re an investigator. He has not been charged with anything. Sara did a nice job of telling us what the

landscape looks like. People have investigated things and nothing has been charged. What`s your assessment of what`s going on here?

ALISON BEDELL, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, I think the fact that he has failed to give any kind of a statement in either direction, I think that

says a whole lot.

I think that when you`re not guilty, you`ve got your publicist out there saying, it`s not me. I didn`t do it. She made up the tape. You`re going

to come up on something other than silence. So, I think that`s leaving a lot to the imagination.

PINSKY: Well, I don`t know. I think sometimes people just duck because they`re so fearful of keeping the story going. They don`t want to get into

the fray at all.

And, Anahita, if that is in fact his voice, which we don`t even know about that -- I mean, the fact that this has been released from a therapy session

to law enforcement and then the public? I cannot get my head around this.

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: I`m with you, Dr. Drew. I mean, if this is him, yes, he should be punished. We don`t know if that`s him for sure on

the tape.

But therapy -- and you would agree with me -- is a place where you`re supposed to feel safe. People go there to get help. You want to be open.

You want to be candid so that you can receive treatment.

So, what is this? So, people aren`t going to be going to therapy if they feel their conversations can be recorded and exposed to the world. And you

did mention, they are going through a contentious divorce. I would hate to think the wife did this in a way to get leverage in her divorce

proceedings. I am not OK with her recording this.

PINSKY: So, she is just using it as a way of getting more leverage in these divorce proceedings, potentially.

SEDAGHATFAR: Potentially, yes.

PINSKY: Karamo, here`s what the wife does say in the divorce documents attorneys filed on her behalf. Quote, "Stephen admitted that he has

engaged in a long term pattern of sexually abusing minor children including three young girls over a decade ago."

Collins` response in the court filings, and this is to your point, Anahita, he does not specifically address the claims made by his estranged wife --

that`s Alison`s point -- outside of making a reference that, quote, "this is really an attempt to extort concessions in a settlement."

Anahita, is that not right?

SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly. That`s what I was saying.

PINSKY: All right. Karamo, what about what she says there are the allegations?

KARAMO BROWN, #OWNSHOW: Well, to -- first of all, what came to my mine, is, if this man was with a therapist, we are mandate reporters. So, if he

ever made an allegation or omission that he was doing something --

PINSKY: Why did she record it?

BROWN: Exactly. It would be the therapist`s duty to immediately report it.

And so, for me, it`s very hard to believe that this actually happened because from my profession, if someone came to my office and said that they

were doing this to a child, I would immediately have to report this. So, how did two years pass --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Karamo, you would be held not only with your license, you would be held criminally accountable if you didn`t report it, right?

BROWN: Exactly. We would.

And so, this is why, it`s like for me -- it sounds to me like a malicious, bitter wife that is trying to do something.

PINSKY: Maybe, allegedly.

BROWN: All allegedly.

SEDAGHATFAR: That would be the only reason, Dr. Drew, that this tape went public if she did tape this in this --

PINSKY: Or unless somebody in law enforcement somehow --

SEDAGHATFAR: I doubt it.

PINSKY: Like a hospital looking into records or something crazy like that.

SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t think so, because when you have this time of evidence in a divorce, it is good leverage to try to get more money. And, again, I

would hate to think that that was why this got released. What would be the purpose? You turn it over to the police.

PINSKY: Alison, do you think there`s any chance that somebody could have gone from the law enforcement to the public with this tape?

BEDELL: I would like to think that they didn`t release it from law enforcement. I would like to believe that the wife actually released it

with the hopes of having something more favorable in the divorce settlement. But also think that by releasing it, you`re also putting it

out there to the world for any potential victim to hear about it and see what`s going on. Then you never know what will come after that and then it

will support her whole claim that he`s been doing this all along.

SEDAGHATFAR: It`s not relevant to her divorce. So, it doesn`t matter. Why not turn it over to the police? Let them do their job. Let them

investigate. Let them go --

PINSKY: What we don`t know, by the way, Karamo, that the therapist didn`t report it. She might have. We don`t know.

Sam, last thoughts here. Come on.

SCHACHER: Last thought -- if this wife was aware as we know that she was aware of these admissions, why didn`t she not report it and say something

years ago until right up until they`re in a bitter custody divorce? That in my opinion doesn`t feel kosher either.

PINSKY: Next up, you will hear from an actor appeared with Collins on "7th Heaven". He calls him a father figure. I`ve heard this kinds of things

from actress that work with them.

And later, doesn`t he or didn`t. We don`t know what`s what?

And later, police tased a man as his son records the whole thing. You will hear from these in the car. It`s an unbelievable tape.

We`re back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KYLE SEARLES, ACTOR, "7TH HEAVEN": He was not only the father on "7th Heaven", but he was also the father on the set for all of us. And never

once did I ever get any sort of weird inclination that maybe he was not who he says that he was. So, it`s definitely very disturbing news to wake up

to this morning. I didn`t believe it at first.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam and the behavior bureau, Jena Kravitz, clinical psychologist, Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox",

and Jennifer Keitt, life coach.

We are discussing the "7th Heaven" star, Stephen Collins, under investigation for child molestation.

CNN has asked Collins and his estranged wife, Faye Grant`s representatives repeatedly for come. They have not responded as we go to air tonight.

I`ve got Dax Holt from TMZ. He joins us by phone.

Dax, what can you tell us?

DAX HOLT, TMZ REPORTER (via telephone): Hey. How are you, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: Good evening, man.

HOLT: What a crazy story this has really been. You know, obviously, this is someone that a lot of people grew up with. Watching him on TV, watching

not only "7th Heaven", "The Revolution," he`s been on a lot of shows. I think it`s honestly freaking a lot of people out, knowing that there was

someone out there that was doing things behind the scenes.

So much so that his estranged wife at this point is saying this guy is an extreme pedophile. And that she urged him multiple time to go seek help.

And she was actually the person that recorded this session, this audio during a therapy session and, you know --

PINSKY: Dax, doesn`t that bother you that she recorded something? A really --

HOLT: No. You know what, honestly, this doesn`t, Dr. Drew. You know why? Because clearly there were people being hurt out there by his actions and

under California state laws --

PINSKY: No, no, but listen. Under state law, the therapist was going to report it any way, I hope. I mean, if she didn`t, there`s something weird

about the whole thing.

I couldn`t even tell what the ex-wife, the estranged wife was doing. Do you know what the setting was? The alleged setting was for this

conversation?

HOLT: It sounds like they were doing -- it was something to do with their marriage. And, you know -- but the way he was talking, I don`t know if you

listened to it. The way he was talking, he was so nonchalant about the crime.

PINSKY: If that`s his voice. We don`t even -- how do we know that his voice even?

HOLT: This is part of a criminal investigation. They are, they are 100 percent sure it is him. This was not us just saying, oh, we hear this

voice on there. This is him.

PINSKY: Dax, does TMZ have more bombs to drop on this story or is this it for now?

HOLT: I mean, this is the biggest bomb there is no drop.

You know, you asked me before whether or not I feel, in fact, no. I think that -- I mean, I`m a father, you`re a father. You want to know if there

is someone out there potentially touching children inappropriately.

PINSKY: Yes, but, Dax, but I`ll grant you that. But I want the system -- I grant you. And, Dax, thank you for joining me. I really appreciate it.

I`m going to move to my panel.

And a reminder, CNN cannot confirm any of these allegations, we`ve not been able to confirm that it`s even Stephen Collins` voice on the recording.

We, of course, welcome Stephen to come on my show anytime so we can get his side of the story.

I mean, Jennifer, I see you engaging on the topic here, which is, yes, I want the therapist to report, you know, trans -- anything that they`re

required to report. But I don`t want to violate the basic structure of how we operate in the mental health setting.

JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: I just said that, Dr. Drew. I am torn on this. It is horrific if he allegedly did it, but we cannot open up the

door to taping -- secretly taping therapy sessions in a marriage counseling setting. That is too dangerous.

I know it is horrific. I know pedophilia is not something that we want to see happen in people`s lives, but we cannot sacrifice that therapy

relationship that we have once we are going in, confessing and baring our souls. Therapists need to do their jobs. Yes. But it cannot -- we cannot

sacrifice that privacy.

PINSKY: That`s right. And, listen, there are huge -- Jena, there are requirements for reporting. And you have to report in a few hours too.

You have to get it, report it. If you don`t, you can go to jail.

JENA KRAVITZ, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s right, especially here in California, where the laws are really stringent. Can you even imagine how

bad their marriage was that she had to set him up and record this in order -- if it was even real? It kind of sound scripted to me. I kept thinking,

how bad is their relationship that she has to set him up to do this. This was even two years ago before the divorce got really contentious.

PINSKY: Sam, do you agree with that?

SCHACHER: Yes, I do, and I`m just worried about all the victims, Dr. Drew, allegedly, because supposedly there is a number of them and it makes me

think. I know that people are fearful of coming forward for a variety of reasons. I wonder if somebody being the perpetrator, being a celebrity,

only contributes to have their silence that much more.

PINSKY: Now, Wendy, I want to read you something from the divorce document. This was filed again by the estranged wife. This is -- this to

me, I don`t know if this was the wife in hyperbole or if this is for real. So, we don`t know.

"Stephen`s therapist subsequently disclosed to me that Stephen has a narcissistic personality disorder with sociopathic tendencies."

Now, if that`s what the therapist told the wife, that is serious business. And you would -- but, Wendy, you would think he would have evidence of that

behavior for years and there`s no evidence of that.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: All over his life.

PINSKY: Right.

WALSH: That`s a major thing, OK? And I think coming not from a clinician but from hearsay, from a supposed clinician to a wife in divorce papers,

shows us that fine line between love and hate. And the stuff that goes into divorce papers, you have to take sort of with a grain of salt, because

there`s so much emotional ammunition.

PINSKY: Jena, do you get what I`m getting at? I mean, you know, if indeed, let`s say -- I`m going to read you something else she says. She

says, "I know that he`s used a 12 step model for sex addiction and that he was seeing a sexual dysfunction therapist. However, he`s refused to seek

proper help or hospitalization for his predilection towards children."

So, between that and the alleged diagnoses, that is a loaded statement and you would expect to see a lifetime of trouble.

KRAVITZ: Exactly. That`s what I just was going to say. We haven`t heard anything about his history in terms of mental illness.

But that being said, a lot of times, these pedophiles have this very charming personality. They`re manipulative. They`re good listeners and

they seek out control. This is how they get their victims.

We didn`t know him that way. We want to know him the way we`ve seen him on "7th Heaven" in television. And I think that`s why people are so shocked

right now.

PINSKY: Jennifer?

KEITT: I think, unfortunately, what we are seeing now, because it is broken the way that it has, Dr. Drew, that everything will be working

toward her favor in this divorce. Whether or not it`s true, he has now been lynched in the media. And so, subsequently, anything she`s going to

be able to accuse him of, we`re already making judgment. It is horrific what is being said.

PINSKY: I`m hoping we`re tampering some of that. I mean, if indeed, this is accurate, particularly the stuff that she`s alleging the therapist has

allegedly, the alleged therapist allegedly told her, particularly if any of that is close to accurate. Well, then, this is a well-deserved --

WALSH: Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: What`s that, Wendy?

WALSH: Who even knows if this was taped in a therapy session? Who even knows if she was not just collecting a tape and asking him to read a script

one time for a role? We don`t know the real context.

PINSKY: That`s right. We don`t know anything about anything. And it certainly is not corroborated by people that knew him or worked with him

regularly.

And people can hide some funny stuff. By the way, this may have been years and years ago. Maybe there was a substance problem then or something else

that`s not being discussed, or maybe a medical -- who knows what was going on. But there`s more to this story. That`s all I`m saying.

And Collins has not specifically addressed the claims made by the strange wife outside of making the reference in court documents that this, quote,

"is really an attempt to extort concessions in settlement", which we at least -- we agree that it is that for sure. But what`s real, what`s not,

what`s alleged, there is a lot more of the story that has to play out.

Next up, new fears about Ebola. We`ve got an update on the patients in Texas and Spain.

And later, caught on camera. A man tased by police as his girlfriend is calling 911 to save them from the police. You will hear the call, you will

see the video. You`ll hear from inside the car, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBIN MEADE, HLN ANCHOR: You could start seeing more screening at U.S. airports for people who are arriving from countries hit hard by Ebola.

People might be pulled aside for questioning. They might have their temperatures checked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Following an intense manhunt in Dallas, health workers say they have tracked down the homeless man, Michael Lively, who they say

rode later in the same ambulance which took Duncan to the hospital. So far, he`s had no signs of the disease. The fifth American to contract

Ebola is also being treated in the U.S. at a Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A frightening new development, a Spanish nurse`s assistant becomes the first person to contract Ebola outside of Africa in

this outbreak. An investigation now underway to find everyone the assistant came into contact with while contagious.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Karamo, Anahita, and Alison.

Sam, tell me more about the Spanish health care worker. I heard there was even another one.

SCHACHER: Yes -- well, Dr. Drew, here`s what we know. It`s the first known case of Ebola transmission outside of Africa. And according to the

documents, the Spanish nurse had been caring for a sick priest who had been flown back from Africa, and he later died.

Now, even though she`s been diagnosed two different times showing she has the Ebola virus, her only symptom is that of a fever.

PINSKY: Right. And again, there`s another one who has a fever that they`re testing with suspicious symptoms. And everyone in Spain, my

understanding is, the health care workers are complaining they don`t have adequate equipment to prevent transmission.

So guess what happens when you don`t have adequate equipment? There`s transmission. So, it`s not the way it is in this country.

But according to a new poll, one in five Americans worried about Ebola. Your concern was reflected on our Twitter feed last night.

Karamo, are you afraid of Ebola?

BROWN: I am not afraid of Ebola, Dr. Drew. And I think it`s absolutely hilarious.

This is not a movie. This is real life. And I want America to calm down. Please! Ebola, if you educate yourself on it, it is not going to be

transmitted through the air. It`s not airborne.

Also, someone -- for to you get it, the person has to have the symptoms. They have to be fully developed before --

PINSKY: And for three days. They have to be sick for three days at least.

BROWN: Like you just said, Dr. Drew, we are in a country where we have the proper equipment. We are able to treat this. So, everyone just needs to

calm down. Everyone is getting scared --

PINSKY: But, wait, Alison wants to respond, and Anahita shaking her head.

But go ahead, Alison.

BEDELL: No, I`m on the same page. It`s like people, calm down. We know that it is not airborne. The only person I plan on exchanging bodily

fluids is my husband. But on a plane, I`m not worried about the air exchange because really --

PINSKY: It`s not in the air.

(CROSSTALK)

BEDELL: If you put a mask on, you`re not going to breathe it in. Take some sanitizer and wash your hands. You know, it`s like we already know

how to contract it. We know what not to do. So, just don`t do those things.

PINSKY: And by the way, there is a nice visual up here on the screen right now that shows how the transmission rate of this virus, 2-1. As opposed to

measles which is 18-1.

Anahita, doesn`t that calm you down a little bit?

SEDAGHATFAR: No. That`s not reassuring. I don`t think anybody should be downplaying Ebola, Dr. Drew.

I don`t know what the answers are. I don`t know what we should do. I would venture to say that`s the role of the government, our government to

protect us. Keep us safe.

But I`m not so sure. I can tell that you screening these individuals at the airport by asking them questions.

PINSKY: That`s good.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: Let me finish. So like I said, I don`t know for sure what the answer is but maybe we need to stop allowing these flights to come in

from West Africa until we come up with a solution. I don`t feel safe.

PINSKY: Listen to Elizabeth Cohen about what she experienced when she came back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I expected they were going to take my temperature. They would ask me lots of questions. They didn`t.

I said, I`m a journalist. I`ve come back from Liberia. I was covering Ebola.

The officer -- he started to hand my passport back and say, welcome home. But instead, he said, oh, wait a second, I got an e-mail about passengers

like you. Hold on a second.

And he went and conferred with someone and he didn`t know, and they conferred with someone else. And in the end, he said, you need to watch

yourself for signs of Ebola.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHACHER: Oh, great.

PINSKY: Samantha, so we need to upgrade a little bit, I`ll grant you that.

SCHACHER: Yes, I mean, this is ridiculous. They didn`t do anything? They didn`t take her temperature?

And, of course, Anahita is correct. People are going to lie like the case that already happened in Dallas, because nobody wants to be quarantined for

30 days.

And, you know what, Dr. Drew, what`s not helping?

PINSKY: What?

SCHACHER: The constant imagery of these people decked out. The medical staff in hazmat suits. I know it`s necessary.

And then, also, these images of people with bleeding eye that are patients of Ebola. That scares the hell out of people. Including me.

BROWN: But come on! Sam, it`s like - it`s - we`re getting all caught up and we`re getting people frightened over something that doesn`t matter. I

mean, of course you have to protect yourself. We have to do - but we`ve been told what we can do to protect ourselves.

PINSKY: Wash your hands.

BROWN: Wash your hands.

SEDAGHATFAR: That is not true. You can still - You can still get it even if you take those measures. We know there is no vaccine. We know it is

contagious. There is no short-fire cure for this, so, of course we`re going to be scared.

PINSKY: Of course you`re going to be anxious. So, yes. Reasonable to be concerned about it. Alison, what do you want to put in here?

BEDELL: I`m saying. I agree. It is absolutely reasonable to be concerned about it. You should be concerned about it, but let`s not go crazy and go

over the top.

PINSKY: Yeah.

BEDELL: You know, this is something - that the government knows what it is. They know how to treat it. They know how to prevent getting it. So,

if you just take in mind all of those factors, you know you`re not going to breathe it in.

SEDAGHATFAR: That was the perfect example, she told the TSA agents .

(CROSSTALK)

BEDELL: No, let me finish. Because you know that if you know you`re not going to breathe it in, you essentially can do all of the safe things that

you know how to do already to keep you from getting the flu. It`s pretty much the same way to transmit it.

PINSKY: Exactly. This may actually help us reduce the risk of infectious diseases that we are actually at risk of contracting. So I`m all in favor

of this, Anahita. I think you just wash your hands, keep your hands away from your face. This is how you prevent the transmission of these things.

And keep reminding you, that the Ebola virus doesn`t become contagious in a patient who is infected until he or she has been sick with a fever above

101.5, and usually that is sick for three to ten days before they become contagious. And even then it is not airborne and it`s not going to become

airborne. I spoke to an infectious disease doctor last night who says that`s never been recorded in a virus that has ever been studied. That

it`s gone from being non-airborne to airborne. Anahita, do you feel better?

SEDAGHATFAR: Kind of. But not really.

PINSKY: OK, well, next up, I have got a physician who says that maybe you should - maybe we`ll get you really spun. He says the government is not

being honest with us about Ebola. I want to hear what he has got to say. There he is there saying the CDC is lying to us. He`s walking around in a

hazmat suit. And later, a traffic stop for a seatbelt violation turns violent. Why? The man who was tased in this video speaks out for the

first time. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Do you think that the government is in any way distorting the facts? I think that`s what people believe.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you know, we don`t know for sure. But what do they gain by distorting the facts? Keeping from mass hysteria? People are

already, you know, nervous and hysterical about it as it is.

PINSKY: What do we tell people who believe that they`re getting distorted information from the CDC? How do we come people`s fears about that?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST: Tom Frieden is somebody I trust and respect tremendously. He knows what he`s doing and he is,

actually, truly giving us the facts about Ebola and whether we`re at risk.

PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Jena, Wendy and Jennifer. In just a moment I`ll be joined by the man in the video. He is the man who

physician dressed up in a hazmat suit with the word "CDC is Lying" written on his back. He went to Atlanta`s Hartsfield International Airport. Take

a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yesterday I came through international customs in the Atlanta airport. The only question they asked arriving passengers, do they

have tobacco or alcohol? That is dereliction of duty. The CDC is asleep at the wheel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: So, Jen, I think he`s getting at the fact that same thing that our reporter pointed out in the last segment, that no one is really guarding

the gate, so to speak. No one is asking the right questions of the patients coming in from overseas.

KRAVITZ: Right. The problem here from what I write about this physician is that he has this long history of this public attention seeking behavior

and these stunts like this which unfortunately limits his credibility. And I`m sure he is a really nice guy. The message is not necessarily what I

disagree with. It is the delivery of this message. I think it is an unnecessary fear provoking measure that the public just doesn`t need.

PINSKY: Samantha.

KRAVITZ: We`re not in that place.

SCHACHER: Yeah, but who is to say that we would be covering this story, and him raising awareness about how we need to be better screening with the

airports if he weren`t .

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Jennifer, you seem to be nodding in agreement with that.

KEITT: Absolutely. Because we cannot say on one hand, we`re a global community. We`re getting smaller as everything is happening in this

country and in this world. And then ignore the fact that thousands of people are dying on another continent and do absolutely nothing about it

until it is in our backyard. I happen to applaud him.

PINSKY: OK, Wendy.

WALSH: I don`t think he needs the oompa loompa suit.

(LAUGHTER)

WALSH: I think he just could have sent a press release out. He should document it with some research. He could have .

PINSKY: Well - Wendy .

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Wendy, would we have been bringing - we would not be putting him on this program.

(CROSSTALK)

WALSH: Told you, Dr. Drew.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: OK.

WALSH: Still, it would have been entertaining. This is .

PINSKY: All right. So let me bring in Doctor Gil Mobley, he is a board certified emergency physician. And now, let me ask, Dr. Mobley, what is

the specific point that you would like to make through doing what you`ve done?

DR. GIL MOBLEY, WORE HAZMAT SUIT TO AIRPORT: Let me back up just for a second. Thank you for having me and let me get the word out, Dr. Drew.

Ebola isn`t hard to catch. The NBC cameraman thinks he got Ebola from cleaning a car. Spain is killing the dogs of people that had Ebola because

they know it can spread it too. And the CDC has just changed the definition of close contact to include somebody standing within three feet.

My message is, look, a million people on the continent of Africa are quarantined right now with Ebola and 10,000 people fly out daily with 35

nonstop to other continents, including the U.S. every day. And you honestly believe Mr. Duncan is the only one that has transported this

disease elsewhere? It is being missed just like we missed it in Dallas. Now, I have no doubt that Dallas will contain and stomp out this Ebola

cluster.

PINSKY: Right.

MOBLEY: But what happens, folks, what happens when it gets into Mexico City or my beloved country, Guatemala? The CDC is just not going to find

loads of jets .

PINSKY: So, wait a minute.

MOBLEY: .. fly in there to tamp it down.

PINSKY: So, wait a minute.

MOBLEY: Crossing the border in every minute. Maybe .

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: So, hold on. Hold on.

MOBLEY: Every advance health system has a system that can be taxed.

PINSKY: I want to make sure - I want to make sure I understand your point. So, your point is that it is inevitable that is going to get into other

countries that don`t have the equivalent of the CDC there to contain it. And once it grows sufficiently in those areas, there will be such a load on

the globe, so to speak that it will eventually, what? Overwhelm us? There will be .

MOBLEY: Yes, sir.

PINSKY: They will be just pouring in the borders.

(CROSSTALK)

MOBLEY: Yes, sir. That statement is close to being true. It is not my statement. It is the World Health Organization September 4TH. They said

it is just a matter of time before it starts showing up in clusters in industrialized countries.

PINSKY: Well, clusters are one thing.

MOBLEY: And a month later the president said it was an extremely small chance. Mr. Duncan was misdiagnosed the first time.

PINSKY: Yes, which is terrible.

MOBLEY: He went to the ER .

PINSKY: That`s the biggest gaffe in the ...

MOBLEY: Then we should have to heighten awareness.

PINSKY: Right. That`s the biggest gaffe in the whole .

MOBLEY: The government is lying.

PINSKY: Well, that was our fault. That was our fault as physicians. Our system failed on that one. That was not the government. The guy went to

the ER and ER turned him away.

MOBLEY: The government was telling us, it was a very low chance, and the World Health Organization said it was inevitable. My point is, we have got

the biggest third world country in the world right to our south and the doors are wide open. This is going to devour Third World countries because

of the devastated health care system, due to conflicts, deplorable sanitation and distrust of the government. It`s going to overwhelm us. `

PINSKY: I understand that.

MOBLEY: We can handle a cluster or two. But how many more jets can we fly around the United States full of people? How many more people .

PINSKY: If this were airborne, if this were airborne and it were something very much like measles, I would completely agree with you. But there are

not of these diseases, two. It`s an .

(CROSSTALK)

MOBLEY: If you go back 20 years ago you will understand that this became airborne in Maryland in the research lab. Read Richard Preston`s "The Hot

Zone," sir.

PINSKY: No, my understanding is, and me - and no, I don`t have .

MOBLEY: The CDC on a regular basis.

PINSKY: Listen, my understanding is through talking to people that work in infectious disease is that there is no documented case of a virus ever

going from being non-airborne to airborne and certainly never been seen with Ebola. But you and I have to agree to disagree on that. I want to

get my panel back into this. Thank you for joining us. I do appreciate it. Sam, you`re looking a little scared.

SCHACHER: Yeah, now I`m even more alarmed. But here`s the thing. I think, listen, I know the facts too, that 7,400 people in West Africa do

have the virus. And then that number, according to health officials will double every three weeks, which means by January, Dr. Drew, 1.5 million

people in West Africa and Third World countries because they don`t have the infrastructure.

PINSKY: If it is not contained.

SCHACHER: To combat it. We`ll have it.

PINSKY: If it is not contained. If this were - if this were a highly contagious disease, I would absolutely be alarmed about this. This is not

- Jennifer, you`re shaking your head no.

KEITT: Dr. Drew, I`m sorry. I disagree with you, dear. I`m concerned just like Sam. I`m concerned, very much so.

PINSKY: So, you guys believe we`re in the beginning of some sort of weird movie.

WALSH: I don`t think that we know enough - I don`t think that we know enough.

KEITT: I`m more concerned about getting the flu.

PINSKY: You should be more concerned. You should be more concerned about getting hit by lightning. Don`t worry about that now. But .

SCHACHER: I don`t think this is contagion, too, Dr. Drew, but I do think that we should be alarmed.

PINSKY: I have got to get out. Have got to get out, guys, I`ve got to get out. I`m sorry. Thank you. Twitter and Facebook went crazy after people

saw this video. They want to know why an unarmed man was tased and so do we. After this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police in Hammond, Indiana, smashing a car window and using a taser on the front seat passenger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The family was rushing to the hospital according to the woman in the car to go see her dying mother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of this just starting out from a routine traffic stop over a seatbelt.

DRIVER: If you`re going to give me a ticket for no seatbelt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s right here ..

DRIVER: Then just give me a ticket so I can go to the hospital. Because the doctor is calling me to tell me to come in because my mom is about to

pass away. No! Don`t mess now! Now they about to mess my - No!

PASSENGER: I`m not the operator of this vehicle. So if you do that -- all right. I`m not the operation of this vehicle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to open the door?

DRIVER: Why do you say so nobody is going to hurt you? People are getting shot by the police. Oh!

Ah!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Karamo, Anahita and Jennifer. The driver and passenger file a federal lawsuit accusing Hammond, Indiana, police officers

of excessive force, false arrest and battery. The video was released on YouTube by their attorney, we have edited down for time.

Sam, is there more back story?

SCHACHER: Yes. Oh, my gosh, Dr. Drew, wow! OK, so the - I have the report right here. And the incident happened on September 24th at 3:30 in

the afternoon in Hammond, Indiana. Inside the car the driver is 47-year- old Lisa Mahon. The passenger is her boyfriend, Jamal Jones. In the back seat, which you guys didn`t see there, is her seven-year-old daughter and

her 14-year-old son. It is the son who recorded the incident on his cell phone camera. Lisa was reportedly stopped for not wearing a seatbelt. She

showed officers her I.D. Jamal was reportedly asked to show his I.D., but did not have it because of an alleged prior offense for driving without

insurance. Jamal refused the officer`s request to get out of the car and the situation as you see escalated.

PINSKY: Didn`t they say, Sam, they got concerned when he leaned down? As though they were in harm`s way? He`s going to pull out a weapon or some

crazy .

SCHACHER: Well, if you watch the whole video, she says he`s going to go in his backpack to pull out his ticket to show that he doesn`t have his

license because he was driving without insurance.

PINSKY: Right. Right. OK.

SCHACHER: So they did announce it.

PINSKY: All right, the Hammond police department provided a statement to CNN quote "police officers who make legal traffic stops are allowed to ask

passengers inside of a stopped vehicle for identification and to request that they exit a stopped vehicle for the officer`s safety without a

requirement of reasonable suspicion."

Anahita, is that accurate? Police can just ask you to just no matter what, to get out of the car?

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s true. They don`t have to have reasonable suspicion. If it`s a legal stop, then they have every right to ask for your I.D.

PINSKY: So, now, let me ask you this. So that was a legitimate request.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right.

PINSKY: Why escalate things to the point that they did? Why not just continue to - you know, they`re so concerned, they`re so convinced this guy

is going to pull a gun on them?

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, yeah, Dr. Drew. Officers don`t know who this person is. They don`t know his name. They don`t know if he has a weapon. They

don`t know if he has a warrant out for his arrest. They`re putting their lives on the line so they don`t who they`re dealing with. And my thing is

why not just comply with the officer`s request?

PINSKY: So, why didn`t he get out?

SEDAGHATFAR: Even if you think - Yeah, even if you think you`re not doing anything wrong, why risk it? Why sit there and debate and argue and have a

discussion with the officer? This went on for 13 minutes, Dr. Drew. And the police officers again, they don`t know what they`re dealing with when

they are walking upon these situations.

PINSKY: Karamo?

BROWN: Anahita, the reason this man did not get out of the car is for two reasons. First of all, as an American I can tell you, we know the legacy

of our country. And we know how racism still exists. And that this man was fearful for his life. And as a black man I can tell you that I would

not get out of that car either. Because if a police officer was to pull a gun on me in front of my children prior to saying, I don`t have my I.D.,

there is no way with everything that`s going on in the media that I`m going to get out of my car and allow these officers to have any access to me.

What this man did was right.

SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t know.

BROWN: Those police officers acted very recklessly.

PINSKY: I want to hear from Jennifer. Jennifer, do you agree with Karamo or Anahita?

KEITT: I am torn. And I`ll tell you why. I think what is most telling is the fact that this man`s 14-year-old son immediately went to start taping

this. I think it speaks to the fact that African-Americans overall including me are very, very afraid. Afraid of every traffic stop. Afraid

of what might happen if things escalate. And Dr. Drew, I`m telling you. I`m torn because I want to comply. I wanted him to comply. But I

completely understood why he didn`t.

PINSKY: Right.

KEITT: And the fact that his son had the tape, I am telling you. It is prevalent now.

PINSKY: Got to take a quick break. We`ll be right back with more on this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we are going to show you some video that is really disturbing, distressful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This traffic stop in Hammond, Indiana, started because the driver wasn`t wearing her seatbelt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you say somebody is not going to hurt you? People are getting shot by the police.

Ah!

Ah!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do we do about the inherent racism that we`re seeing over and over and over again?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Legally, the cops can ask you for I.D. and ask you to get out of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you were with your family in that car, this would not have happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, listen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Period.

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Karamo, Anahita and Jennifer. A federal lawsuit accuses police in Hammond, Indiana of "reckless indifference" after they

smashed a car window and used a taser on a passenger during a traffic stop for a seatbelt violation. And Karamo, CNN`s legal analyst Sonny Host said

it would not have happened to a white family. I`ve been roughed up by a police, and he was an African-American police, he really roughed me up. I

still do whatever they tell me to do. I don`t care what color they are. I just - whatever they tell me to do, I do it.

BROWN: Yes. Of course, Dr. Drew, I`m not saying that everyone hasn`t been roughed up by the police. But what we`ve seen in the media, is that there

is a consistent, and there`s a pattern, and there`s a trend of African- Americans being abused, shot at. So ..

PINSKY: So - but Karamo, do you think that it is the Ferguson image and the memory of Ferguson, so to speak, that really is getting in people`s

psyche now?

BROWN: I do not believe that. Because as someone who has been driving black under the influence of being black for many years, for almost 15

years now, I can tell you that I have been stopped constantly. And I had a conversation with my parents very early on that I have had with my sons.

That when they`re driving, there are certain things that they are not supposed to do, and it`s because I am trying to protect them. And there is

no reason that I should have that conversation as a black man with my sons .

PINSKY: Right.

BROWN: But I have to, because I need to protect them.

PINSKY: I have got to give you more of this three minute video released by the family`s attorney on YouTube. The tape, again, as I said, has been

edited for time and then Sam, I`ll get your comment. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DRIVER: No, I`m not making it worse now. I`m scared for my life.

Because he just pull a gun. We don`t have a gun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead. Go ahead.

OFFICER: I suggest you come out of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead.

PASSENGER: You a white shirt?

A white shirt. I`m gonna ask for a white shirt. I don`t know what`s going on. I just gave you my information. I don`t know what`s going on. I

don`t know what`s going on. I`ve got to get out of the vehicle being in the passenger`s side. You know what I`m saying?

You got somebody that`s a sergeant, yo?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He didn`t have any I.D.

OFFICER: There`s a lieutenant right there.

PASSENGER: I just gave them my information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Sammy, he is the white shirt, he is talking about seeing it like an administrative officer, right? Is that what he wants to see?

SCHACHER: You know what, Dr. Drew? I don`t know. I watched the video in detail, and I`m sorry. I see excessive force here. White or black. And

I get the distrust. There was a gun pulled on him for a traffic violation. And I`ve been pulled over a number of time. Never ever have I been asked

to exit my vehicle? Why? Because I`m an unassuming white girl. And what really sucks about this is two kids were in the back of the car and now

they`re going to have a distrust with police officers.

PINSKY: Yes, that`s an important point, Anahita, it`s an important point.

SEDAGHATFAR: If he complied with the officer the first time the officer said, please get out of the car, do you think it would have escalated to

this point? Anybody on the panel?

SCHACHER: That happened after the gun was pulled, Anahita. After.

PINSKY: I want to hear from Jennifer. Jennifer, go.

KEITT: Absolutely it would have. Absolutely. Because those officers have attitude and so did he. Attitude was everywhere. It would have escalated.

Absolutely.

SEDAGHATFAR: No, if he complied without having the attitude, I don`t think it would have escalated to this point, and I`m not saying there`s no such

thing as driving while black. I`m not saying there is not this fear and this history. But all I`m saying is, maybe that particular incident wasn`t

the time to take a position. You know you have a gun pointed at you. Just get out of the car .

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: On Twitter, it`s a lot, Anahita, "walk a mile in my shoe" kind of twittering going on.

SEDAGHATFAR: I understand. I mean I don`t understand, but I can accept that that exists. So, I`m not saying there is no racism.

PINSKY: All right. We will - here`s the deal. We will keep this going in the after show. Join us on Facebook. We`re going to keep this

conversation up. In the meantime, "Forensic Files" follows us now.

END