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Ebola Patient Dies; FBI Needs Help; Woman Chooses to End Her Life
Aired October 08, 2014 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And here we go. Top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Now we have it, the worst fears confirmed inside of this Dallas, Texas, hospital. This morning, just after 7:00 a.m., Liberian national Thomas Eric Duncan died from Ebola. The news about the 42 year old came a little later this morning. He was the first person to be diagnosed in the United States, having traveled here from Liberia reportedly after contact with an infected pregnant woman. After falling ill, Duncan went to Texas Health Presbyterian where his condition then deteriorated.
The Texas Department of Health issued this statement. Just quoting them. "The past week has been an enormous test of our health system, but for one family it has been far more personal. Today they lost a dear member of their family. They have our sincere condolences and we are keeping them in their thoughts. The doctors, nurses and staff at Presbyterian provided excellent and compassionate care, but Ebola is a disease that attacks the body in many ways. We will continue every effort to contain the spread of the virus and protect people from this threat." That coming from the state health department there.
Just days ago, you see these men in these hazmat suits, right? Here they were at this apartment where he had been staying to try to contain and decontaminate just that area where he was with relatives, with friends, with family. Those family members are now under observation at another location.
So joining me now, Ebola expert Dr. Alex van Tulleken, and also in Dallas, our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.
So, Elizabeth, let me just begin with you. Can you just fill in the blanks, what more do we know about Duncan's passing and also the condition of his body?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. So, Brooke, we don't know any more details than was in the press release from the hospital when they expressed their condolences and said that Mr. Duncan had died of an insidious disease. The hospital was going to have a press conference, but they said out of respect for the family they decided not to have one.
We do know, however, that the family has lots of questions. They want to know why their - why Mr. Duncan was -- went to the hospital on September 25th with a fever and abdominal pain. They were told -- he told the hospital that he had been traveling recently to Liberia, yet he was let out. And he went back in a couple of days later. They also want to know why it took nearly a week to get him an experimental drug. And they also want to know why he did not receive any blood donations from Ebola survivors, whereas other patients had received that. So they have a lot of questions about the kind of care that he got.
BALDWIN: Want to loop back with you because a lot of people are asking that question about the blood transfusion, especially because now it sounds like we're learning that this American cameraman will be receiving blood from an Ebola survivor. But my question to you, doctor, is this. On the notion of Duncan's body, I mean my first thought in hearing the news was, this is horrible and this is tragic. Then my second thought was, just knowing what they do with bodies in Africa, they burn them, and learning that they're even more contagious in the hours and days after death, correct?
DR. ALEX. VAN TULLEKEN, EBOLA EXPERT: Yes. Well, the Ebola virus is carried in bodily fluids. It will be a very high levels because that's the reason that he died. And so there is a real concern about dealing with this body. Now, there are protocols to deal with it. So the first thing is, it will have to be wrapped and then double wrapped, rather than washed.
BALDWIN: OK.
VAN TULLEKEN: And then it doesn't actually have to - it doesn't have to be cremated.
BALDWIN: It doesn't?
VAN TULLEKEN: No. It doesn't have to be cremated. It can be buried in a specially (INAUDIBLE) sealed casket. The transport issues are significant. The guy driving the transport vehicle to the mortuary will not have to be wearing protective gear, but the people dealing with the body in the mortuary will be and clearly the mortuary will have to be decontaminated afterwards.
BALDWIN: Wow. Wow.
VAN TULLEKEN: Yes.
BALDWIN: Just thinking about -
VAN TULLEKEN: And all these things - I mean you think about these things in terms of this real, human, personal tragedy, where we have some of this massive amount of press speculation, a huge amount of focus on this family, very, very hard to deal with, with someone who survives who's very ill. And you have this tragic moment where we also have to bear in mind all these other concerns. These concerns that, I guess, feel quite selfish compared to what his family's going through, but nevertheless a very, very significant public health issues as well.
BALDWIN: We do have sound from his son. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARSIAH DUNCAN, THOMAS DUNCAN'S SON: I just came down here because I felt like God was calling me to come see my dad, even though I've got school and stuff, you know. But I haven't seen him since I was three, so if that's the question you all want to ask, I don't have an answer for it. So I'm just out here to thank you for all the support and just keep praying and letting God do what he got to do, I guess (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I mean you absolutely feel for this family, Elizabeth Cohen. You are there in Dallas and I'm sure the family is wondering, just as, you know, a lot of other people are asking, back to your point about these blood transfusions, why Mr. Duncan did not receive one, but this, you know, American journalist, this American cameraman, apparently will be.
COHEN: Right. There are all sorts of possibilities to explain that, Brooke. I was texting with a nephew of Mr. Duncan's and I said, why didn't he - why didn't he get a blood transfusion? And he said, we pushed for one but we were told that it had not been proven to be effective.
The problem here with Ebola really, Brooke, is that nothing has truly been proven to be effective. They're using ZMapp. They're using brincidofovir (ph). They're using blood donations because they - they have reasons to believe they might work, but there's no proof. There have been no studies. There's no proof for any of this. So we don't know if maybe the hospital tried to get blood donation, but maybe he didn't match up with the blood types of the survivors who were willing to donate. We don't know. But I know that the family said that they tried. They pushed the hospital. And the hospital said that it hadn't been proven to be effective. I've asked the hospital why he didn't get one. They have not gotten back to me.
BALDWIN: OK. And, doctor, just sort of - I'd love to hear your read on all of this with regard to - I do know that he was taking some sort of experimental medicine. It wasn't ZMapp, which was what the other two had taken at Emory in Atlanta, who survived. But it's - it's frustrating for a lot of people wondering, well, why didn't he get the blood?
VAN TULLEKEN: I think - I think these are really difficult issues to deal with because we don't have -- as a clinician, we just simply don't have a treatment that we know works for this.
BALDWIN: It just doesn't exist?
VAN TULLEKEN: There's no - and there doesn't seem - absolutely. Essentially that once he was admitted to hospital, it does seem like they pulled out all of the stops and it does seem that they're trying experimental drugs and it does seem they at least did try to acquire ZMapp and that wasn't available. So I don't get a sense that he's been neglected or given kind of second-class treatment.
BALDWIN: OK. VAN TULLEKEN: You know, who know. That will - that will emerge in the days to come. The thing that should be of great concern is that he wasn't - that he was discharged from the hospital and sent home and was allowed to circulate in the community, which we -
BALDWIN: Right. And in those matter of days, could that have made a difference?
VAN TULLEKEN: Of course. I think significantly. We know that seeking care earlier makes a difference. And, of course, you know, we've focused on that as a public health story, but it has a very real, human tragic face now, which is very sad.
BALDWIN: Dr. Alex van Tulleken, thank you very much for coming in. I appreciate it. And hopefully some of these questions will emerge over the coming days. Elizabeth Cohen, excellent reporting for us in Dallas there at that hospital. I appreciate you as well. Thank you very much.
Just ahead here on CNN, in this war against ISIS, the Pentagon now saying air strikes will not save a city on the brink. All of this as ISIS, this truck bomb blows up in the center of Kobani.
Plus, hear how the FBI is using this voice analysis to track down this possible American jihadist here who appeared masked in this ISIS video.
And it is the incredibly complicated, emotional, compelling story of this 29-year-old woman, recently married, moved to Oregon here and this big, national debate now, whether terminally ill patient should be able to decide his or her final breath. Hear from this woman who explains why she will be ready to die.
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BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
The chilling voice of a masked ISIS killer. His eyes, the only other clue to his identity. But when you look at this, I mean is that really enough? Would you know these eyes if you knew this man and would you recognize this voice? Take a close listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're here in the 17th division military base just outside the city of Raqqa and we're here with the soldiers of Bashar. You can see them now digging their own graves in the very place where they are stationed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: OK. That was the voice. This video goes on to show the man and other militants killing those men. Their bodies falling into the ditch.
This is the ISIS recruiting video "Flames of War." It has a name. And for a month thee FBI has been poring over this. But seemingly with no leads, they are now turning to the public, asking your help to identify him.
And joining me now, Mitch Silber, executive managing director for Intelligence & Analytic Solutions at K2 Intelligence, and also former NYPD counterterrorism expert.
Mitch, welcome. Thank you so much for taking the time.
MITCH SILBER, INTELLIGENCE & ANALYTIC SOLUTIONS AT K2 INTELLIGENCE: Thank you.
BALDWIN: I think it's really interesting that it's a recruiting video and that he does appear to have this North American accent, which we'll get to in just a second. But first, for the FBI to try to identify this guy based upon this part of his face, is that possible?
SILBER: That alone, probably not.
BALDWIN: Yes.
SILBER: They need to put together a composite with the voice, what he's saying and other elements about him.
BALDWIN: You heard it. You're the expert. What do you hear?
SILBER: I hear a North American.
BALDWIN: You do?
SILBER: You know, and I think this is something that he is proud of and wants to demonstrate because this is a recruiting video. The idea is to get more people from the U.S. and Canada to follow him to Syria and to Iraq and to join his cause, ISIS.
BALDWIN: That is what's so key. ISIS wants these western radicalized jihadies to come join their fight and it speaks volumes. It is the message to those westerners, come.
SILBER: Yes. We've seen it before. In Somalia, there was an American named Omar Hamami (ph) who was tweeting and making videos also with the express interest in recruiting specifically westerners to come to Somalia and fight on the side of al Shabaab. We've seen westerners recruited through YouTube. So all different types of social media. Jihadists have gotten savvy. They know for the age demographic that they are looking for, social media is the way to go and some type of video that makes it look attractive is going to be appealing.
BALDWIN: Uh-huh. So what happens, FBI finds this guy, figures out who he is. What do they do next?
SILBER: Well, the next -
BALDWIN: Behind closed doors, what happens?
SILBER: Sure. Well, once they identify who he is likely to be, at that point they're going to share that information with all of the different countries intelligence agencies who are working with in partnership. So if this individual comes back to Greece or to the U.K. or to France or to Canada, that this person essentially is watch listed and that someone is going to pick him up when he arrives.
BALDWIN: What's your biggest question about this whole thing?
SILBER: Biggest question is how long is it going to be before, you know, the first Americans are arrested on their way back from Iraq and Syria coming back to the United States. We know some are there fighting. At some point they're going to come back, either to try and do something or because, frankly, they're disillusioned. But one way or another, capturing some is in the future.
BALDWIN: They'll be (INAUDIBLE). Mitch Silber, thank you very much.
SILBER: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Appreciate you coming in.
Just ahead here, as ISIS terrorists take over this key border city, there are fears of a massacre and now the Pentagon is saying air strikes will not save that town. Hear why.
Plus, this emotional story that has all of you talking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRITTANY MAYNARD: I will die upstairs in my bedroom that I share with my husband, with my mother and my husband by my side and pass peacefully with some music that I like in the background.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Today we are committed to telling Brittany's story again. We'll also speak live with the man who made a film about the right to die just ahead. Stay with me.
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BALDWIN: In her pursuit to die the way she would like, a terminally ill woman has brought new life to the death with dignity debate. Right now, just five states have some form of law that allows some terminally ill patients to receive lethal medications. And among them, the state of Oregon, where Brittany Maynard moved to specifically to be able to, quote, "die on my own terms." That is precisely what she penned in this new cnn.com article that is, let me just tell you, a must read. Maynard is all of 29 years of age. She got married just over a year ago. And doctors gave her only six months to live because of brain cancer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRITTANY MAYNARD: I will die upstairs in my bedroom that I share with my husband, with my mother and my husband by my side and pass peacefully with some music that I like in the background.
I can't even tell you the amount of relief that it provides me to know that I don't have to die the way that it's been described to me that my brain tumor would take me on its own.
I hope to enjoy however many days I have left on this beautiful earth and spend as much of it outside as I can surrounded by those I love. I hope to pass in peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Now in her time remaining, Maynard is taking this whole thing public, as you saw, releasing this video calling for other states to adopt these death with dignity laws. And there has already been resistance. In fact, in 2012, Massachusetts voters rejected it. Even patients with lethal medications expressed doubt as seen in the HBO documentary "How to Die in Oregon."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't help having a little flicker of, well, maybe I won't die. Maybe I could live another 20 years. But what I try and do is transmute (ph) that into, wow, this is a great day. That awareness that every day I get to make a meal and I get to kiss my husband, that I get to talk to my children one more day, that's great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: With me now, the director of that film, "How to Die in Oregon," Peter Richardson.
Peter, welcome.
PETER RICHARDSON, DIRECTOR, "HOW TO DIE IN OREGON": Thank you for having me.
BALDWIN: Thank you so much for coming in. People were already talking about your film the second we started talking about Brittany's story yesterday. Let me just begin with this. You profiled multiple people in your film. You hear her talking about, you know, flickers of doubt. Should I do this? Was that the sort of pervasive sense through all the different people you've talked to, or was anyone 100 percent this is what I want to do?
RICHARDSON: No, I think it was really - you know, there was a lot of difficult decision make happening. You know, I mean having this life ending medication I think for a lot of these people was - you know, they knew what their - that it was there, that it was a safety valve for them, basically. You know, that if things got really tough, that they would use it.
BALDWIN: A parachute?
RICHARDSON: Yes, exactly, exactly. You know some people, like Cody (ph), for instance, you know, kept it in her, you know, her night stand drawer. Other people kept it at a friend's house. They didn't really want it -
BALDWIN: It being the lethal pill.
RICHARDSON: The medication. Yes, yes, thank you, yes. So I think it's a very, very difficult decision, yes.
BALDWIN: But her son was saying, you know, initially, right, I don't - I don't necessarily support this but I have to be there for my mom. I mean talk about just the conflict. I can't imagine a husband -
RICHARDSON: Yes.
BALDWIN: A loved one saying, doctors could be wrong. You could be around much longer.
RICHARDSON: Yes, exactly. It was a very, very difficult decision even for Cody's family. I mean Cody was very certain about the decision, you know, but her son was, I think, very much against it. He wanted to see her, you know, fight as long as she could. So I think eventually, in the end, you know, he came around and saw how this, you know, brought her a great deal of comfort. But it was a very, very difficult decision for the family.
BALDWIN: Can you also just explain to me the process in which one determines -- not necessarily setting a precise date, like in the case of Brittany. She wrote on cnn.com that her husband's birthday is in the end of October and perhaps some day after will be the date that she chooses to take that potent pill. Walk me through how these people decide that.
RICHARDSON: Well, it's a very difficult decision again. You know, in Cody's case, in the film, she's also set a date. Memorial Day. That was the day that she was going to take the medication. And I was filming with her at that time and the date, you know, kept getting closer and closer and she was still doing really well and, you know, she was kind of like, well this existential dilemma. I've told my family. They've kind of, you know, emotionally planned for this. Friends know this date. And what do I do? The date's here and I'm still, you know, alive and feeling great. I want to continue living.
BALDWIN: What did she do?
RICHARDSON: So ultimately she did - she just moved the date. She said, I'm not going to set a date again. And she just realized that was totally unrealistic. So in other cases it may be, you know, something that's appropriate for a person. But in Cody's case, she lived another, I think, six months after that date. So - so it's difficult. But I think that, you know, when you're - when you have this medication and when you're kind of confronted with this, you know, you make these decisions about, well, I have to have some certainty around this and that's why, you know, I think sometimes people do set dates.
BALDWIN: You did the film in, what, 2011?
RICHARDSON: 2011, yes, yes.
BALDWIN: So in the time since, I'm sure you have talked to and gotten all kinds of feedback from people all across the spectrum. I mean, overall, how do Americans feel about the right to die?
RICHARDSON: Well, it's a good question. There's a lot of polling out there. And I think a lot of the polling -- when the words like aid in dying or right to die or death with dignity are used in these polls, I think that there's quite a lot of support. When words like assisted suicide are used, there's not very much support. So a lot of it is around, you know, the language that we use around this choice really.
BALDWIN: Right versus suicide.
RICHARDSON: Exactly. Choice versus suicide.
BALDWIN: Two very different meanings.
RICHARDSON: Yes. Exactly. So -
BALDWIN: Interesting.
RICHARDSON: Yes, yes, it is interesting. So, you know, I'm sure that there are current polls out there as well. I think that, you know, people who have seen the film, you know, come into it with a variety of different viewpoints and they leave the film with a lot -- a variety of different viewpoints. But, you know, my intention in making it was really to kind of share this story that I felt was untold because it's, you know, it's a very specific story to a certain situation and a certain state, but it's also a very universal decision as well and something we're all going to confront.
BALDWIN: Absolutely. Absolutely. And just hearing Cody say, you know, now I really just appreciate kissing my husband or preparing meals each and every day and it's not just these people who are faced with death all too soon, it's their loved ones that life is indeed short.
RICHARDSON: Yes.
BALDWIN: Peter Richardson, your film is "How to Die in Oregon." Thank you so much for coming in.
RICHARDSON: Yes, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
BALDWIN: I really, really appreciate it.
RICHARDSON: Thank you.
BALDWIN: And make sure you stick around because next hour we have actually a special panel. Really wanted to talk a lot about this issue because a lot of you are tweeting us and talking about this amongst yourselves. So we'll be airing two different pieces, death with dignity. Don't miss the discussion and the debate. And send me tweets @brookebcnn.
But coming up next, we told you about the death of the first Ebola patient diagnosed here in the United States. Moments ago we have now gotten reaction from his partner, the woman who talked to Anderson Cooper, the woman with whom he stayed in that Dallas apartment. We are now hearing what Louise is saying in the wake of his death.
Plus, new details on enhanced screening for Ebola at airports across the country. We will tell you what they will be looking for, how they will be doing this testing on all of us, coming up next.
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