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Dr. Drew
Ebola Fears Grow, 3 Possible New Cases; Interview with Jeremy London, Star of `7th Heaven`; `Pot Mom` Takes Drastic Action
Aired October 08, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Stephen Collins` scandal, accused of molesting three girls. You`ll hear what he said on a recording
made without his knowledge. One of his "7th Heaven" co-stars is here exclusively with reaction.
Plus, another pot mom takes drastic actions to help her suffering child. She`s packing up and moving to Colorado. She`ll tell us why as we debate
the issue.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. I`m here with my co-host Samantha Schacher.
We have news in the Stephen Collins case tonight.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: That`s right. The wife`s attorney has given us a statement rather and we`re going to get into what she said tonight.
PINSKY: First up, though, possible new Ebola infections in the U.S. as the first patient with this disease in our country dies. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve been told by the hospital that Thomas Eric Duncan has passed away. Yesterday afternoon, they had so much hope because
his blood pressure was going up, his temperature was going down, both of those good signs.
I think that the family will have a lot of questions for this hospital. They want to know why he was sent home when he arrived with a fever.
They`ll want to know why he -- it took nearly a week to get him an experimental medication. They`ll want to know why he didn`t get blood
products from someone with Ebola. Other patients have gotten blood products from people with Ebola.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The dog of an Ebola patient in Spain has been euthanized. There have been protests on the street and online to save
Excalibur.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Vanessa Barnett, HipHollywood.com, Loni Coombs, attorney, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell", and HLN`s
very own, Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of "JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL".
Sam has breaking news, as well, right?
SCHACHER: Yes, Dr. Drew. OK. So I have the reports right here in Los Angeles. A, quote, "possible Ebola patient was brought to the emergency
room because he had traveled from Liberia." The hospital said he tested negative for the virus.
Also in Texas, a man was brought to the hospital with possible Ebola symptoms. He`s a deputy who reportedly had been in the apartment where
Thomas Duncan had been staying, and had contact with his family. He reportedly had several possible symptoms of Ebola.
And as of late, there may be two more related to that Texas case.
PINSKY: Now, Sam, from my perspective, I know people get worked up about the fact there are new cases being reported, but this is good news,
everybody, this is our system working. The guy here in Los Angeles, they took him out of the airport right to the hospital across the street. He
did not have detectible virus, so he was not infectious, everybody.
But they`re going to watch him to see if he develops the condition and keep him isolated in the meantime.
Now, there`s the story in the tape you saw about the Spanish nurse`s dog who was euthanized earlier today.
Sam, we got tweets about that too, right?
SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh, Dr. Drew. Yes.
OK. Very emotional. Tracy Landia`s (ph) tweets, "This is unfortunate but it`s for the greater good and had to be done."
From Dr. Gregory Smith, "No real evidence if dogs can infect humans with Ebola, but panic is setting in and people are not taking chances."
And, finally, this one from Tom Gara, "On some level, I guess we`re all just a Spanish dog named Excalibur, abandoned by our protector,
inexplicably tormented by higher powers."
PINSKY: My goodness.
So, Jane, we`re getting grandiose in our philosophical sweep on this one. But let me -- Jane, I wanted you to talk about this because we know how
passionate you are about animals. And here`s what I know about Ebola and dogs, they can get the virus from humans and they can excrete it and they
could be contagious, though there`s not been documentation to my knowledge.
What say you on this topic?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Yes, there`s been no documentation, from what I`ve read, that any dog has passed on Ebola to any human. This is a
very emotional subject. I`m an animal rights activist and I have compassion for the dog, for the human companions of the dog and to the
protesters.
But I certainly think what they should do is take all that energy they`re putting into this one dog and put it to the millions of dogs that are
killed every year in the United States and around the world because there are homes for them, the millions and millions of dogs that are roaming the
streets starving because nobody does spay and neuter programs. And the 9 billion animals in the United States that are consumed for food every year
in factory farm conditions.
So, we have a double standard. We get emotional about one dog, but when you talk to somebody about oh, the way that pigs and cows and chickens are
treated in factory farms, oh, well -- I don`t want to hear about it. That`s the vast majority of animals suffering.
PINSKY: Listen, the way human brains works baffles me. One tragedy is a catastrophe, but a thousand is an incident.
Loni, what do you say about what Jane said?
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: Well, I agree with what she said. She made great points, and I also think that what happened in the case in Spain, a lot of
people are upset about it, I think it had to be done. I know the dog haters are going to hate me for that.
But when it`s coming to a choice between human and animal life, and we don`t know at this point yet how dangerous it is for dogs to have. We know
chimps can carry it and also pass it. We know that there are other animals. We don`t have enough studies done yet to know if dogs can or
cannot pass it, but they can have it in their urine, in their feces and their drool. And animals, dogs, pets, that`s what they do. They pass --
PINSKY: And that is a concern, Vanessa. That is a concern. This is the whole issue, the virus getting out of a biological system into the
environment into another biological system.
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: Right. It is a very valid concern, and we`re all sitting here wanting us to quarantine people immediately when
they get off planes but we don`t do anything about this dog. People are dying of Ebola.
If we need to take this one dog out, and yes, I love dogs, I adopted a dog. I understand what that -- that dogs are family members. I get that.
But we don`t have enough information. At this point, it may be a knee jerk reaction, but it needs to happen, because we don`t even know if we the
technology to detect it in dogs. Like we just have to be safe.
PINSKY: That`s right.
Sam?
SCHACHER: Really quickly. Listen, if the dog really did have Ebola, of course, I do think that the dog should have been put down, especially for
his own --
PINSKY: Didn`t they find Ebola? Didn`t detect it?
SCHACHER: I don`t think they even tested the dog, nor did that quarantine the dog properly. Lest give the dog the benefit of the doubt. This poor
girl, the owner of the dog, is fighting for her life. If that were me, I would want to continue to be sedated because my best friend --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think the protesters should go to the bullfighting ring and try to stop bullfighting in Spain.
SCHACHER: I agree 100 percent agree with you, Jane.
PINSKY: One quick thing, let`s focus on humans for one second if we could.
And, Loni, I want to ask you about the care Thomas Duncan received. People are not focusing on the major gaffe on this case, which was the fact that
his treatment was delayed. Not only delayed, he was sent away potentially infectious back into the community. But let`s just look from the
standpoint of delay in treatment.
This is a disease that`s got to be treated early and aggressively. He did not get that treatment.
COOMBS: Right, right. And that`s because the hospital turned him away. He went to the hospital. He told them he had been in Liberia. He had a
fever. So, he did everything he could and they said, go home, go take these antibiotics.
The doctors say if you get here as soon as possible, there`s good chance we can treat it. Those first three days --
PINSKY: Critical, critical.
COOMBS: -- critical time that he was out passing it around potentially.
PINSKY: Maybe, maybe.
COOMBS: Potentially, but at least he wasn`t getting treatment.
PINSKY: Nothing else for sure, it was bad for him.
Vanessa?
BARNETT: That`s not including the 10 additional days it took him to get the aggressive medicines that other people get immediately.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: Listen, I don`t want to -- you`re right, that`s a question, and we don`t want to second guess them because we aren`t there treating and who
knows what they were dealing with at a time.
Jane, I`m going to give you last thoughts. I`m going to wrap this up and bring the behavior bureau.
What do you got?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s not a competition between humans and animals. We`re all on the same side.
There`s a crisis. We have to solve it. It`s going to be very difficult. We know for example that Ebola does exist, can exist in monkeys. OK?
Ebola has had an outbreak in monkeys. So, we have to look at the facts.
But I feel very concerned about this whole epidemic and the idea of containment and the idea of how we`re going to screen people coming in from
other countries as to whether or not they have it, because apparently when it`s asymptomatic, they could be carrying it in the incubation period, then
get to the United States and then have symptoms.
PINSKY: That`s what`s going to happen. I mean, that`s why -- I think the TSA has been asleep at the wheel. But at least now at the airports,
there`s going to be aggressive screening, we`re going to see change in that. Already here in Los Angeles, they got one guy in the hospital who
went through that screening process. I say I applaud that. Let`s get on this.
Next up, Ebola screening ordered, as I said, for five U.S. airports. You will hear what a reporter went through at an airport. I think it wasn`t so
good.
Later, how far would you go to help your sick child? A mother will tell us why she`s moving across the country.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CNN REPORTER: The lessons learned here will be quite unpalatable for lots of people watching this back in the U.S. and Europe where they have eight
confirmed cases of Ebola, which is that even if you do everything right, it can still slip through your borders.
CNN REPORTER: I expected they were going to take my temperature, they were going to ask me lots of questions, but they didn`t. I said I`m a
journalist. I`ve come back from Liberia, I was covering Ebola.
The officer, he started to hand my passport back and say, "Welcome home". But instead, he said, oh, wait a second, I got an e-mail about passengers
like you, hold on a second, and he went and conferred with someone and he didn`t know and they conferred with someone else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and the behavior bureau. Evy Poumpouras, law enforcement analyst, former special agent at Secret Service, Jodi Ho,
clinical psychologist, professor of Pepperdine University, and Spirit, host of "Daily Help Line".
We are talking about the Ebola scare, what is reality, what is hysteria.
Sam, there is development on the screening front, that story we just heard was the previous behavior of the TSA, which as I said was asleep at the
wheel pretty much. Now what`s going on?
SCHACHER: Well, you`re right, what that reporter experienced may be a thing of the past, because now we have five international airports here in
the U.S. that will have more thorough advanced screening for the Ebola virus. But that will not take place apparently until this weekend at the
earliest.
PINSKY: Say that again? They`re not doing it yet? What about all the video we`re seeing on the news of people getting their temperature taken?
And what about the guy we picked up at LAX?
SCHACHER: I know there are some things they need to implement --
PINSKY: So they`re doing more -- the full policy has not yet been -- there`s the airport where is it`s taking effect.
Evy, is this enough? Do you agree with these measures? Does there need to be more?
EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: I think they`re doing the right thing and it`s a step in the correct direction. My only concern is this, that you
can see that they`re not implementing this right away is because they haven`t put the plan together.
Again, this is where we need to be proactive rather than reactive. They should have had this plan in place before just in case we had a problem.
But what is happening now the federal government is doing is scrambling.
As the CNN reporter mentioned earlier, you see TSA not knowing what to do. So, you need to streamline, you need to train your people at the airport,
because this is not something they know how to do. All this should have been done prior to and then activated should we have a problem. But now,
we`re doing this all last minute.
PINSKY: I`ll tell you what, I`m thanking God that we have this as a -- I think it`s going to be a trial run for us. Because when the time comes
that there`s a very contagious outbreak, we`ll at least have these policies and procedures in place. The question is, Evy, since they`re just
responding to this particular outbreak, do you think they`ll think bigger in a potential biological warfare and things like that?
POUMPOURAS: They should have always thought bigger. That`s a little bit of a concern. We talk about ISIS and terrorism and all these things, but
we always think about it with regards to explosives, weapons, you know, 9/11, that type of attack. Those attacks -- they can transcend to
biological and chemical warfare, contaminants in the air, airborne chemicals, all those things. We need to think like that.
I know it`s scary. I know we don`t like it. But the federal government must take that, must assume that role to protect the good of the people.
PINSKY: All right. So, Judy, Evy has been going out and buy gas masks for running the subway of New York --
SCHACHER: Can Evy be the head of the TSA? Can we nominate Evy?
PINSKY: But that`s different that this issue, you know, for this particular outbreak. She wants to be ready for everything, and I think
that`s smart, although it freaks me out a little bit.
So, how do we keep -- how do we get people, Jodi, vigilant without becoming hysterical?
JODI HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I think it`s important for everybody to be educated. And as you were covering this on the show, it`s helping people
to understand what are the symptoms to watch for and what you should do. But I really think that people should focus on the statistics. It is very,
very rare, OK, it`s still very, very rare as we talked about. There are multiple other things that could be happening to us on a daily basis that
still can. So, everybody just needs to stay vigilant, stay educated, but please do not change your lives significantly for this.
PINSKY: OK. Hold on, Spirit, how about you? Are you going to change your life?
We have a screen up on the screen that shows how infectious Ebola is relative to other infectious virus. Measles, about 10 times more
infectious than, say, Ebola. Ebola is like hepatitis C.
Spirit, is it going to affect your travel plans in the future?
SPIRIT, DAILY HELP LINE: Well, you know, it`s funny because I`ve seen that chart and I still just don`t believe it. I see that Ebola is below HIV,
and I`m thinking with HIV, I still have got to have sex or come in contact with bodily fluids. But Ebola is still a little different.
But I will say, because my city is on the list now. I mean, you know, we`re right here in Atlanta. I will not panic, I said on the last my show.
But my family, we definitely have talked about the what-ifs and how to protect our children and how to protect ourselves if this does become an
outbreak that we see here in our city.
PINSKY: See, I`m going to call that the Evy Poumpouras. I say that`s a good thing, that`s good thing, but still we don`t want to get crazy about
this.
SCHACHER: Right, right.
POUMPOURAS: Yes, I agree, we shouldn`t live in fear or be crazy about it. But the idea is we should have knowledge and be aware and have self-
awareness, situational awareness. The more educated we are, the better prepared we are. And then if something does happen, you know what to do or
what not to do. And that`s the important here.
PINSKY: OK. Here`s the deal, we`ve had a very rational conversation about this. I want to continue to educate by bringing in an infectious disease
specialist, Dr. Celine Gounder.
And I want her -- Dr. Gounder, I want you to tell the viewers why this virus does not mutate to become airborne. Why this is not going to be some
sort of -- something out of a movie where it spreads in the air, why that can`t and won`t happen.
DR. CELINE GOUNDER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST (via telephone): Sure. Thanks for having me on again. So for the Ebola virus to become airborne,
it needs to be able to infect the airways in the lungs. And to do that, the virus specially needs to have the right keys to unlock and penetrate
the airways and the lungs. Then, the virus needs to be able to replicate the airways and lungs at high enough concentrations to spread to someone
else.
And then, the virus needs to be able to remain alive while suspended in the air for longer periods of time. In humans, Ebola causes disease of the
blood and liver, not of the lungs. And it doesn`t like to live in human lungs. Outside of the human body, it dies pretty quickly, especially in
room temperature, sunlight, when it`s dry. So, to become airborne, Ebola would need to undergo numerous mutations and then have the right
evolutionary pressure to select the right mutations because, you know, mutations occur at random.
PINSKY: That makes the host, the humans, more likely to die, which is bad for the virus, so the viruses aren`t going to have pressures that way.
Correct?
GOUNDER: Exactly.
PINSKY: All right.
GOUNDER: (INAUDIBLE) in the right direction. And right now, Ebola is doing pretty well for itself. It really doesn`t need to mutate to survive.
PINSKY: Dr. Gounder, I`ve got to leave it there, thank you so much.
Judy, last thought.
HO: Well, may I just make an analogy that it`s kind of like us trying to think of us becoming X-men. It`s going to go through multiple mutations
before we can start to fly or have telepathic abilities.
PINSKY: That`s right. So, I`m planning -- but, Judy, if you can help me out, I`d like to be able to fly soon. So, we just create those pressures.
SCHACHER: Yes, I like the comic book reference, Judy. Yes.
PINSKY: All right. Now, we`re going to switch gears. Thank you, guys.
For me, that was a very good conversation. I hope that calms everybody down and helps you understand what`s at issue and be informed about how to
prepare yourself.
Next up, we have developments in the Stephen Collins case. His estranged wife and his attorney are speaking out in interesting ways.
And later, why a mother is mu moving across the country to save her son.
Back after this.
(COMMERIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLLINS, ACTOR: I feel like my world, our world has stopped, and the rest of the world is speeding along at an ever increasing rate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Collins is the target of an ongoing child molestation investigation from an alleged incident 40 years ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say a woman came forward two years ago. She told them Collins forced her to touch him inappropriately when she was just
14.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I understand that he`s in a middle of a divorce.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Divorce papers filed by his estranged wife Faye Grant in 2012. In the document, Collins admitted to molesting three underage
girls, two in New York, and one in Los Angeles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, now, an audio recording of Collins confessing has surfaced.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to TMZ, the recording was made by his estranged wife Faye Grant, during a counseling session two years ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam, Vanessa and Loni, and joining us for the first Kristin Klingshirn from the online program, "The Bert Show."
Stephen Collins takes another turn tonight. The actor`s attorney reacts to the molestation accusations that had surface yesterday. Here is an
audiotape from which a man seems to be -- in fact, admits to inappropriate behavior with children. Here`s part of that recording released by TMZ.
A reminder that CNN cannot confirm that the voice on the recording is Collins or if the tape has been edited or altered in any way. Take a
listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FAYE GRANT: OK. How many times with (AUDIO DELETED)?
COLLINS: Once.
GRANT: And you said that there was another girl. How many girls altogether.
COLLINS: That`s it.
GRANT: No, you said there was --
COLLINS: No, help e out here. There was (AUDIO DELETED) sister.
GRANT: So (AUDIO DELETED) sister who was 10, because she wrote me, because (AUDIO DELETED) was 10. Ten, 11, 12, round several years --
COLLINS: There were -- I think, yes, there were like three incidents over about three years.
GRANT: OK, so and then there was the girl across the way at on (AUDIO DELETED)
COLLINS: That`s (AUDIO DELETED)
GRANT: And then there`s (AUDIO DELETED). So, it`s just three?
COLLINS: Yes.
GRANT: You`re sure?
COLLINS: Yes.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. Kristen, that`s the tape that`s at issue. What`s your reaction?
KRISTEN KLINGSHIRN, ONLINE TV HOST: It`s chilling to hear it over again for the second time. When I do my entertainment stories, I would much
rather do stuff that`s superficial like Kim Kardashian and Justin Bieber.
PINSKY: Well, welcome to the Dr. Drew show.
(LAUGHTER)
KLINGSHIRN: Yes.
I mean, it`s heart wrenching. Again, it hasn`t been authenticated, and I was a fan of the show and it sounds like him, and the NYPD has had this
tape for two years and you wonder why charges haven`t been filed yet.
PINSKY: Right. And what are the circumstances of this tape. It`s a therapy session that this woman secretly records this. It`s disgusting on
some level. Kristen, do you agree with me on that?
KLINGSHIRN: Well, this is why I`m hoping, like in my heart, there`s a logical side and emotional side of this. And in my heart, I want to
believe when she was recording these sessions, she was hoping that he would pay for what he did, not that she was going to get a payday for this
divorce settlement.
PINSKY: All right.
KLINGSHIRN: In my heart, that`s what I want to believe.
PINSKY: Vanessa, you`re saying, listen, I am, you know me, I`m in no way defending somebody that victimizes children. Are you kidding me? I have
to deal with that in my professional life all day long. And it`s one of the worst -- we`ve been through an epidemic in this country and it`s
created more patients than I can count. What is your reaction?
BARNETT: I don`t care. I don`t care if she`s doing it for money. I don`t care if she`s doing it for her self satisfaction. I don`t care, she`s
trying to expose him. That`s all BS, that is covering the real story here.
This man is disgusting. He touches little kids, and unfortunately, this is another situation where the legal system has failed the victim, because
now, there`s a statute of limitations. These people can`t get any kind of justice for what this man did to them. It`s just -- it hurts that people
are trying to look at this wife and say oh, well, she just wants money. I don`t care. If she wants money, that`s not the issue. He touches little
kids. That`s what we need to focus on.
PINSKY: On the phone, I have Dax Holt. He`s reporter for TMZ.
Dax, TMZ broke this story. Are there new developments now?
DAX HOLT, TMZ REPORTER: Well, two things that I want to clear that I just heard. Number one, the cops haven`t had this tape for two years. They
only recently got their hands on it with. And with the statute of limitations, the first person that came forward was a couple years ago.
So, all of this is still within the statute of limitations, because it comes from the date of reporting, not back 14 years ago when it allegedly
or 40 years ago --
PINSKY: Dax, hang on one second. I got an attorney here. I see her shaking her head no. Tell me what you`re saying.
COOMBS: No, I don`t believe that`s the case. In New York, which has one of the most restrictive statute of limitations on child molest and sexual
abuse to children, you have to report within five years after your 18th birthday, which makes it 23. If you don`t report by then, you`re out of
luck in New York.
It`s been a grounds for a lot of people trying to change the law, many times, and it just hasn`t happened. In California, it`s a little bit more
open. In New York, I believe they`re out of luck.
PINSKY: And by the way, let`s remind ourselves, Dax, what I don`t understand is why that therapist didn`t report this immediately when that
happened, when this whole thing came out in her office, allegedly, if that`s what we`re actually hearing, because, you know, in this state, you
have an obligation, with criminal obligation if you don`t do it.
DAX HOLT, TMZ REPORTER: And I`m 100 percent with you, I don`t understand why this wouldn`t have been brought to the attention right away. Why his
estranged wife had two years to hold this over his head, you know, and we`re hearing because she wanted to get more money out of him. You know,
honestly, the allegations, the accusation are just getting worse and worse, like it`s getting nastier and nastier.
PINSKY: On both sides, right?
HOLT: Emails are coming.
PINSKY: Yeah.
HOLT: That ease - you know, I got to talk about this e-mail that, you know, she claims that with - before the birth of her daughter, he allegedly
said oh, I`m glad you`re not having a boy, because I would have wanted to have oral sex with the kid. Which I have ...
PINSKY: Wait a minute, whoa, whoa.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I just remind you that CNN cannot confirm any of the allegations - - hold on a second, Dax. I`ve got to read this. We cannot confirm any allegations against Mr. Collins. We haven`t been able to confirm that`s
even Collins` voice on the recording. We welcome him on our show anytime for his side of the story, but Dax, what is this e-mail? What are you
talking about?
HOLT: Stephen Collins also is denying that, I`m telling you that.
PINSKY: Yeah.
HOLT: And his lawyer are denying that. But yeah, like, you know, and I know that you guys are all very nervous about this tape, but his lawyer is
coming out and saying look, we know about this tape. She`s been holding this tape over his head for two years. And obviously they can`t talk too
much about it, because now it is in the criminal investigation.
KLINGSHIRN: So, right, really, really quick. Because what I`ve heard is that Faye Grant gave this tape over to the authorities when they asked for
it two years ago. Is that not true?
HOLT: No. As far as I know, that they just got their hands on this tape very recently. That`s why now the cops -- the NYPD are coming out to L.A.
to interview people.
PINSKY: And Sam?
HOLT: To talk to them. That`s why it`s now getting the ball rolling.
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: Yeah, Dax, I want to get your feedback, because all over social media last night was this false suicide alarm. And for our viewers that
don`t know, I quickly want to read the tweet from actress, Donna D`Errico, you guys remember her from "Baywatch." She wrote, "That guy from "7TH
Heaven lives right around the corner from me and just shot himself a few minute ago." How did you guys react to that, and do you know where Stephen
is right now?
HOLT: I`m going to tell you, I started getting phone calls last night the second this happened. Everyone was freaking out, wanting to know what was
going on. Obviously, they came to us first. The e-mail was blowing up. We were trying to figure out what was going on. Just because Donna had put
it in her tweet like it was so concrete. It wasn`t hey, I`ve heard that he got shot, it was he shot himself.
SCHACHER: Right.
HOLT: And so, going into action. Immediately we were able to get the answer that it was false, it was not true. So we all kind of backed down
off of it, put up a post on the website that`s - saying that it was not true, and so everyone could calm down. And I mean there were people on
Donna D`Errico`s door within minutes after that trying to interview her, trying to find out what was going on. And you could tell she deleted that
post down very quickly and kind of backed off from it and saying hey, this is what I heard. But if you`re putting something out there as fact, of
course, people are going to pick it up, especially with the story like this.
PINSKY: All right, Dax, as always, I really appreciate you coming on helping us to try - through and straighten everything out, and we`ll get
back with you. Thank you so much.
Next up, I hear one of the co-stars from "7TH Heaven." He`s here exclusively with us. And later, I have jersey pot mom. What a mother is
doing to save her child. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I have real problems with the fact that a therapy session becomes public information.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We cannot open up the door to taping secretly taping therapy sessions in a marriage counseling setting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would hate to think the wife did this in a way to get leverage in her divorce proceedings. I`m not OK with her recording
this.
COOMBS: Who even know it is this was taped actually in the therapy session?
Who even knows if she wasn`t just collecting the tape and asking him to read a script one time for a role?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam and our behavior bureau Evy, Judy and Spirit and joining me on the phone exclusively, I have Jeremy London, he starred
in "7TH Heaven" with Stephen Collins. Jeremy, I know you have a lot of strong feelings about this, so here is your chance ...
JEREMY LONDON, 7 HEAVEN CO-STAR WITH STEPHEN COLLINS: I do.
PINSKY: ... to explain what your thoughts are.
LONDON: Thank you for having me on the show, doc. Yeah, I`m obviously deeply disturbed by this whole thing. And first, let me say that if there
is any truth to this, my heart bleeds for the victims. It`s unconscionable. And obviously there should be a maximum penalty faced for
that. Now, having said that, the timing of the whole thing is what`s in question here, obviously. If somebody knew about this kind of stuff for as
long as his wife claimed to have known about this, then I have to say that she should be held just as accountable.
PINSKY: Duplicity (ph).
LONDON: Accountable.
PINSKY: Yeah.
LONDON: You know, somebody says that they`ve had, you know, fantasies about sexually molesting their own children, who doesn`t go straight to the
police for that?
PINSKY: Or at least - or at least to gain your mandated treatment of some type.
LONDON: Exactly.
PINSKY: Before - before the shows. What I always say, people can have impulses, but there`s treatment. And before this trouble again, but
Jeremy, of course, we don`t know anything -- these are all allegations, we don`t know the facts.
LONDON: Absolutely.
PINSKY: And let me ask you this, Jeremy. Is there a way you could get your head around and understand -- obviously this happened long before you
knew him, we think any way.
LONDON: Right.
PINSKY: Is there any way you can make sense of how this could have possibly happened, if it did?
LONDON: Only if he would have been completely (INAUDIBLE) and out of his mind. Because the Stephen Collins I know is simply one of the kindest,
most gentle hearted souls you`ll ever meet in your life. I admire him almost more than anybody I`ve ever worked with. As much as I admire you,
doc. I`m telling you, it would be just as shocking for me to find out that you did such a thing. Because he truly is a man of honor, a loving kind
person. I hope he did not do these things. I do not believe he did these things. And as the maliciousness and the timing is what I`m concerned
about. Whenever you know, you`re getting a divorce and all of a sudden this stuff comes to light and to benefit the wife, it`s really, really hard
to take it at face value.
PINSKY: So ...
LONDON: So, even if - even if something like this did happen 25, 30 years ago, if she held on to it for that long, that means she was holding on to
it waiting for this moment. And it just doesn`t ring true to me. It doesn`t seem right. And if it is true, she should be just as accountable
as he is.
PINSKY: OK, Jeremy, thank you for joining us. I`m going to leave you and I`m going to bring our panel in. I also have to say that the estranged
wife does insist that she had nothing to do with releasing the tapes. Here is what she told enews, quote, "I woke up today to learn that an extremely
private recording I had handed over to authorities in 2012 for their request in the connection with the criminal investigation was recently
disseminated to the press. I had no involvement, whatsoever, with the release of the tape to the media. Evy, you`re used to dealing with
confusing situations. What do you make of all this?
POUMPOURAS: So, I want to say a couple of things. First with regards to accountability. All those parties that had known he had behaved in such a
way towards children, they should be held accountable, as well, if they`re able to. The one good thing is, now that this is happening, if this is
true, again, we want to know if this is true. Other victims will come forward. This reminds me a lot of Jerry Sandusky where you had one victim
come forward, and then another, and then another. All right? But I feel that if this is true, when you have individuals like this who had this
pattern of behavior as we see that, it could be possibly be that, there are a lot more victims. So, what we`re seeing, if this is true, is the tip of
the iceberg. Typically child sex offenders have multiple victims and do this throughout their entire life. So even if the statute of limitations
did run out in the state of New York, you will have other victims I guarantee you step forward and say you know what, I`ve been a victim.
PINSKY: Spirit, let`s say the statute had passed, let`s say it`s just in New York, just for the sake of conversation, and he is not charged. What
should happen to him?
SPIRIT: You know ...
PINSKY: And by the way, Spirit, I`m going to - Jeremy, I spoke to him a little bit earlier today, and he told me that one of the things upsetting
to him is that the fact that he`s having - this man is having all these consequences, it`s having a ripple effect on many lives, including his, his
show, "7TH Heaven" Jeremy was being pulled.
SPIRIT: Of course. It will be smeared forever. And so these are the things that are going to continue to happen to him. I think it`s
interesting, though. If the statute of limitations is already past, Dr. Drew, why then two years ago were the police asking for these tapes? That
just doesn`t add up to me. And I`m deeply disturbed. As a person spends hundreds of hours working with sex offenders, I`m deeply disturbed by the
idea that she was able to do these recordings and to have them come out.
PINSKY: I`m with you.
SPIRIT: We don`t know what the context of this was.
PINSKY: Yeah.
SPIRIT: We don`t know was he involved in treatment at this point?
PINSKY: Right.
SPIRIT: It`s just all of it, just really wreaks for me. It really does.
PINSKY: Judy, do you agree with that? And could he have been in treatment for sex addiction long ago and now in recovery? And this is part of his
amends or inventory or who knows what?
HO: Well, I think it`s possible if he actually did do this, and if we want to give him the benefit of the doubt, that could be what he`s going
through, which is sort of like rehabilitating and working through it. But just to present the other side of the story, Dr. Drew, Jeremy is absolutely
right in the context of which this came out, which is a divorce. And we know from research, from experience that in the context of nasty divorces,
there`s also false allegations on one parent to another of child sexual abuse, et cetera.
PINSKY: Very common.
HO: So, it`s a very, very common thing. And so I want us to be able to be balanced about this.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: At the same time.
PINSKY: But again, never, ever, ever say -- we`re not saying in any way this is OK, OK to tape a therapy session, OK to molest kids, OK to defend a
victimizer. None of us are saying that. We`re just trying to make sense of a very confusing situation. I`ve got to go. I`ve got to go, you, guys.
I`ve got a desperate mom moving across the country. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m sorry that people will not put the patient first. I don`t understand. . I do not understand that. It makes me - it just makes me
crawl out of my skin.
BARNETT: I am a mother, and I believe in by any means necessary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You give me a witness who is going to say that she endangered her child`s health. All I heard was positive outcomes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are times where as human beings we have to hook at the law and say what`s wrong with this law?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa, Loni and Kayleigh McEnany joins us, conservative commentator, your response on Twitter and Facebook has been
overwhelming when we told you about the mom who broke the law to get cannabis oil to treat her son`s seizures and pain. Tonight we have another
mom taking extreme measures to treat her child with medical marijuana. Sam, details.
SCHACHER: Yes, OK, so she lives in New Jersey and she gets the cannabis legally through the state`s compassionate Youth law. Her 15-year old son
suffers from a severe form of epilepsy, suffers from severe seizures, but when he turns 18, Dr. Drew, according to these documents, he may no longer
qualify to get cannabis under the law. So, and also take note, because of New Jersey`s laws on edibles, the mom can`t get the exact form of cannabis
that her son needs, so she`s left to mixing it and left to her own devices. And she also doesn`t want to wait for New Jersey laws to catch up to the
needs of her son, so she`s moving to Colorado where she can get more ongoing safe and legal forms of cannabis.
PINSKY: So, Kayleigh, why can`t the state leave physicians alone and the patients to take care of patients and to do what their patients need to
make them better? What can`t they do that? And, are you - you`re a conservative.
KAYLEIGH MCENAN, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Look, I have ...
PINSKY: You are from conservative position, the law - the government is crawling into that relationship every which way, why can`t they just leave
us alone?
MCENANY: Look, I have a lot of sympathy for this mom. I want her -in whatever way she can. However, let`s keep in mind the American Academy of
Pediatrics is against medical use of marijuana in children. Doctor Sharyn Levy, a Harvard professor, has pointed out - and a doctor has pointed out
that we know the short-term anecdotal effects of marijuana, it`s very helpful. We don`t know the long term effects. This has not gone through
controlled FDA type testing. All we know is that it is essentially, a neurotoxic on a child`s brain. There`s no evidence as to the long term
effects, that`s the problem, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: That`s a problem, we need to study it. We need to be free to study it. In the meantime, physicians who are desperate to help their
patients may need to, on a compassionate basis, take risk on their behalf. Loni?
COOMBS: Yeah. I agree. I think that`s what doctors are supposed to do. That`s what their patients want from them. We talked about this the other
day. Sometimes it takes civil disobedience --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Oh, Sam, Loni breaking the law. Attorneys advocating civil disobedience, everybody.
COOMBS: Dr. Drew, that is how the law typically changes when people step up --
PINSKY: When the laws are wrong and they`re wrong here! That`s the problem. Laws are supposed to be right. Vanessa.
BARNETT: Right now she`s like the Rosa Parks of pot. She`s trying to make changes happen and she has to move from where she is, pick up, she does not
have a job. She barely has a place to sleep.
PINSKY: She`s a nurse, too.
BARNETT: She`s doing the best she can for her child, and it shouldn`t be this difficult to make sure her child is OK.
PINSKY: Samantha?
SCHACHER: I am going out of my skin, because this mother should not have to move in order to give her son the medical treatment that is actually
working for him, OK? I`m reading tweets. People saying oh, she`s getting her son stoned. There`s so much misinformation. CVD (ph), there are no
psychoactive elements in this. That`s called THC. I wish people would inform themselves. Go to websites like (inaudible) in order to actually
have an informed opinion.
(CROSSTALK)
MCENANY: All of these great effects that we`re extolling are short-term effects. We don`t know the long-term effects.
PINSKY: We don`t. That`s right.
MCENANY: That`s why we have the FDA. I pose a question to the panel, is it good to vote on medicine at the state level? A state ballot initiative
should not determine what medicines are legal. We wouldn`t do that for any other type of medicine, but for pot, we`ll make this special exception and
allow the popular vote to determine what the FDA should be determining. That`s a problem.
PINSKY: I agree. I think we should be -- listen, part of the problem is because the laws are so stringent, we can`t even do research on this. It`s
just another molecule.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t imagine other narcotics being that much better, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Got to go. I`m bringing the mom in after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam, Vanessa, Loni and Kayleigh. A mom desperate to treat her son`s seizures with cannabis is giving up on her home state of
New Jersey, moving to Colorado. I have Jennie Stormes on the phone. Mom and registered nurse. So tell us how your story is playing out now, what
the plan is, how people are receiving you, and how is your son doing, more importantly?
JENNIE STORMES, MOTHER: He`s actually doing great now that he has both the medical advice from the doctors in Colorado, and also he`s going to have
access to the medicine he needs without worrying about running out like we were in New Jersey. The dispensaries were running out of the strains, the
different--
PINSKY: The CDD (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Kayleigh McEnany raised an interesting, important point that this has not been FDA studied yet, there`s a lot more to be learned about long-
term effects. Do you worry about that on your son?
STORMES: Actually, I was more worried at 4 months old, when they put him on phenobarbital, which is a narcotic, which is not recommended for anyone
under the age of 12. My son was put on that at a very young age. Including at a year and a half, then the diazopine. And since starting
cannabis, he`s been weaned from the heavy narcotics, which are actually more dangerous than cannabis itself and less addictive.
PINSKY: You certainly have no argument for me, but however, Kayleigh, maybe you want to make your point again, that there could be neurotoxic
effects on teen brains, and he`s now becoming an adult, so it may not be as clear cut.
MCENANY: Sure. Ms. Stormes, my heart goes out to you and your son. I want nothing more than to see him functioning and healthy. But the long-
term effects are troubling. We don`t know what they are. It`s this vast unknown. We can all here agree that the FDA should be doing trials and
looking into this. If this can help your son, I want to help your son with this. But it is troubling to not know what`s going to happen in 10, 20, 30
years.
PINSKY: Let me ask you, are you finding doctors, Jennie, that can really - - or experts that can really help you?
STORMES: Actually, I can. And to answer the question about the long-term effects, my son is not supposed to live another five years. So do I give
him the best next five years I can give him in fear that in 10 years it might do damage, when the FDA approved drugs that he`s already been given
had done that damage along with the repeated seizures.
PINSKY: Slow clap, Jennie. I don`t understand how our laws can prevent that. I just don`t understand it. Whatever other position. Sam, do you
have a question for you?
SCHACHER: I just want to know the kind of response you have gotten. Have you gotten a lot of support or more scrutiny?
STORMES: Honestly, I have been fighting and begging Governor Christie for the last two years for my son`s life, and to change the laws so they work
in New Jersey, for not just my son but the other children, whether they`re under or over 18, and the adults. Our program is just broken. We don`t
have enough time to go into that, but everybody that I`ve been working with is very supportive of the fact that we`re moving and they say it`s about
time. What`s important is my son`s health. And the more we fight the governor and the more he ignores me, the more angry I get.
PINSKY: Jennie, I`ve got to interrupt you. We`ve got to go to break. I`ll try to maybe connect you with our online service and we can get
information out to you. Or if people have questions and want to hear about your story, we`ll do it there, at hlntv.com/drdrew. Go there now and vote
on our poll. Is the mom doing the right thing? We`ll reveal the results during our after show on the Facebook page. "Forensic Files" now.
END
