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Dr. Drew
Possible Scenarios of Ebola Outbreaks in the United States; Doctor Concerned with CDC Lack of Action; Traffic Stop Turned Violent in Indiana
Aired October 09, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDREW PINSKY: Tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isaac Robitille was found dead at his home. The 13- year old lived with his mom and her boyfriend, and the couple is now facing second-degree murder charges.
DRIVER: No, I`m not making it worse now. I`m scared for my life.
PINSKY: Accusing Hammond, Indiana police officers of excessive force, false arrest and battery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ah!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Damn!
PINSKY: Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening, my co-host is Samantha Schacher. And coming up, this YouTube video has millions of hits and people asking if it is real -
please, don`t ask what it is. We`ll have to explain it much later.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CNNHN CO-HOST: Yea, Dr. Drew, it is real. And here`s the thing: it`s a scro-guard. As in scrotum, and this is how it is
described, OK? "Designed to cover the skin in the genital area that is not covered by a condom."
PINSKY: What has become of my life?
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: All right, first of, this is an intent story, I want to try to pick a part here. It`s a mother and her boyfriend charged with second-
degree murder after police say, the two of them colluded in putting alcohol into the 13-year-old son`s IV tubing. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isaac Robitille was found dead at his home on August 22. He was born with severe medical issues and needed IVs and a feeding
tube to keep him alive. Investigators say Robitille and her boyfriend, Walter Richard knowingly added alcohol to Isaac`s IV bag. An autopsy
revealed the boy had a blood-alcohol concentration of 0.16 percent, almost twice the legal limit for an adult to drive. The medical examiner says the
alcohol contributed to the boy`s death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us, from "SpeaktoMark.com, Vanessa Barnett, HipHollywood.com and Kayleigh McEnany, political commentator. Mark, I`m
not sure I get what is going on here. But I guess my first question to you would be, why the rush to a murder charge? Isn`t there some other
potential explanation or even a lower charge?
MARK EIGLARSH: Well, it`s because hopefully they haven`t revealed their entire case to us. Maybe they`ve got some things that you and I don`t know
about, which would be refreshing in a murder case, they don`t tell everyone in the media everything they know. Now, maybe they`ve got some statements
because that`s what they need, Drew, they need statements from one of them to say I did this, he did that, because otherwise, one is going to point
the finger at the other and say he must have done it. She`s going to say, I would never harm - and they point the finger at each other and then who
did it?
PINSKY: Kayleigh, you get what I`m getting at here, is there - this is a woman, a mother that has kept a severely disabled child, basically almost
very limited, if any brain function. No ability to see. Limited ability to communicate. No quality of life. This mother has doted over and made
it her life to support this child. Why would immediately - again, we always talk about overreach on this show. Why rush to accuse the mother of
something when the child has a misadventure?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: See, I`ve got to disagree with you, Dr. Drew. The second degree murder charge, one of the stipulations
for that is one time disregard of the likelihood of death or serious bodily injury. And here I say this mother disregarded the likelihood of death or
bodily injury. A normal parent with a healthy child knows not to give their 13-year-old alcohol. A boy who is eating through a feeding tube,
eating pediatric nutritional formula through a feeding tube, this mother should have known better. You do not put vodka in a feeding tube. I think
that she`s absolutely guilty of second degree murder here from my perspective.
EIGLARSH: How do we know she did it?
PINSKY: We don`t know, allegedly.
EIGLARSH: Not a single allegedly .
(CROSSTALK)
EIGLARSH: Not a single allegedly from her mouth, not a symbolic allegedly, nothing.
PINSKY: And by the way, maybe it was cough syrup or something she was putting in there because the child had a gag reflex, or a some sort of -
was coughing and gagging that particular afternoon.
EIGLARSH: You`re good.
PINSKY: Thank you, Mark. Sam, what do you hear about the mom social profile?
SCHACHER: OK, well, her social media, Dr. Drew, he was quite active on it. In fact, on August 22, the exact day that she reportedly found her son
dead, she posted to Facebook, she posted to Twitter. She wrote "My son Isaac passed away this morning." But Dr. Drew I have to say, if she was
trying to kill him, again, I agree with Kayleigh that even if she was trying to give her son alcohol .
PINSKY: If she was trying to kill him, Sam, she used way too much - too little alcohol. Way too little.
SCHACHER: I agree. Or she would have done something different.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: They asked for the autopsy report. But maybe she was trying to control his symptoms with alcohol.
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: Which is still not OK.
PINSKY: Out of desperation.
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Not OK, but, I think as a mother, as a mother, I always want to give people -- parents the benefit of the doubt.
Even like hot car dad. I was one of the only people who say that maybe, just maybe he didn`t do it. And in this case, I really want to believe
that this mother had the best intentions and didn`t want to purposely kill her own son who she took of 13 years. But at the end of the day, when you
are a parent, you have to do research. We`ve heard of these pot moms that are talking to doctors and say, how can I help my child feel better? If
she thought she needed to do something, or this guy that she`s living with, that we don`t know what that situation is, really. If she thought that
they needed to do something to help this baby feel better, then she should have done better research. And I`m sure alcohol isn`t it.
PINSKY: And Mark, what we don`t know yet - not vodka - how do you know it was vodka, Kayleigh? Where do we hear that? I keep hearing it was in the
IV fluid, and have they found vodka in the IV tubing or something? They were going to give - and why - if you are going to give apple, why didn`t
they give it via the feeding tube?
MCENANY: No, I read it was vodka. I read it was the husband who put vodka in it. The mother initially said that she put vodka and then changed her
story, said it was the husband. That`s their testimony. As of what I read in the news.
PINSKY: All the allegations. Allegedly. But she put it in the - she put vodka in the IV tubing or she put it in the feeding tubing?
MCENANY: I believe it was the feeding tubing.
PINSKY: Feeding tube. Well, that .
PINSKY: We can`t even get this straight. The kid had a condition called holoprosencephaly, which is a congenital disorder, meaning you`re born with
it where your brain basically doesn`t develop. The sort of no - the sort of stuff we associate with consciousness and being a human being and being
social and being able to see and process sensory information, he had none of that, that poor kid. And that mom was investing her life into raising
this child, and giving that child - you can see, he`s also physically deformed as well. Giving that child the best possible existence.
SCHACHER: That`s the argument.
PINSKY: Yeah. And I don`t see what she - She suddenly, Mark, spun out of control?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Yeah, go ahead.
EIGLARSH: Let me say this, if I am a defense lawyer, I take exactly what you just said, what you just said was brilliant, it was perfectly worded.
That`s the argument. So, it doesn`t make any sense. It`s completely illogical. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, use your common sense. The
judge is going to tell you to use it. Why would all of a sudden she then move to eliminate him from this earth? It doesn`t make any sense.
PINSKY: Right.
EIGLARSH: That`s going to be the argument.
PINSKY: And Kayleigh - or just feed him vodka. One for you, one for me? What she is thinking, Jim, if she were trying to kill him, she would have
done it much more better, much better job of it.
MCENANY: Yeah, but I don`t think this was intentional. That`s not it. To me this is the one time disregard for death or great bodily injury. So,
sort of a negligent angle - is where I`m getting at.
PINSKY: I see.
MCENANY: That results in the second degree murder charge.
PINSKY: I see.
MCENANY: I don`t think it was intentional.
BARNETT: Is there any reason that she would believe that alcohol would make his symptoms better and make him feel more comfortable?
PINSKY: That`s what I have to wonder.
MCENANY: Common .
PINSKY: I don`t know if this was - well, but maybe some desperate move on her part, I don`t know. That`s what I want to believe this was. I`m
bringing the behavior bureau. And next, what this boy`s mom says just a few years ago about her hopes for him could surprise you. And later,
remember of the other night? We will hear from the 14-year-old boy who used his cell phone to record the incident. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In December of 2005, Isaac`s mother, Melissa Robitille spoke with Channel 3 news. At that time, Isaac had just turned
five and was getting a special gift from the Make a Wish foundation, a puppy he named Tickle.
MELISSA ROBITILLE: Isaac is going to meet so many therapy goals just chasing Tickle around and reaching out. Because he needs to learn to reach
out and feel the world, because he`s afraid of things that could hurt them because he can`t see them.
And then later on she could be an assistance to him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eight years later, Isaac`s world would take a deadly turn. On August 22, his mom called 911 to say her son was dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam and my behavior bureau. Danine Manette, a criminal investigator, author of "The Ultimate Betrayal," Emily Roberts,
psychotherapist, and Jennifer Keitt, life coach, radio talk show host. A mother and her boyfriend charged with second degree murder after police say
they had put alcohol in the 13-year-old son`s IV tubing. Each media`s reporting multiple different stories. Some are saying the feeding tube,
some are saying it`s vodka in the IV tube. Kayleigh reported specifically that it was vodka in the IV tubing and there is good corroboration out
there. Sam, tell us more about the mom`s social profile.
SCHACHER: OK, so she reportedly also had a blog, Dr. Drew. And I have some of the stuff that she wrote about in regard to her son. She referred
to him as little man. So she writes, "He`s a delightfully happy little boy, loves math, hugs, kisses and his dog. Her name is Tickle. He named
her, and hates physical therapy. He speaks mostly tactile ASL, which is sign language." She goes on to say "He was medically fragile for a long
time after he was born. So writing took a back burner for me, but I can`t say that I regret it, since I adore him and my skills as a writer have
improved by leaps and bounds since 1999.
PINSKY: All right, and Danine, it was the mom that called 911 herself when she found her son. And she - again, I`m having trouble with this story.
Evidently knew she had put IV - excuse me, vodka in the IV or alcohol in the IV. What are your thoughts?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, Dr. Drew, but you would be surprised and disturbed by the number of
parents that actually give their children cough syrup and medications to put them to sleep, even when they don`t have coughs.
PINSKY: I`m not surprised about that at all. But that`s what I was struggling with in the last block. Was maybe they put cough syrup in the
gastrostomy tube or something.
MANETTE: I think it was part of their regular regiment with him, I think that maybe they did this one at a time, not knowing that the other one had
given it to him which is why he`s being - they`re being charged with second degree instead of first degree or maybe even having it lessened to
manslaughter later on. When they determine that this was something that they did, that they shouldn`t have done. But that their intent was not to
kill him, but just to make him have a little bit of sleepy time.
PINSKY: And I got to say there`s a medical piece here, Sam, that`s missing for me, too, which is - if the kid has a gastrostomy tube, you have access
to what`s called his enteral system. Why does he need IVs? So, that doesn`t make sense to me at all. There might have been something else
going on medically that we just aren`t privy to?
SCHACHER: And didn`t he have around the clock care? So who was actually taking care of him around the clock? Because I know both the mother and
the boyfriend - or is it her husband, they worked full time.
PINSKY: Emily, you were nodding to what Danine was saying about somebody knowingly putting alcohol into the IV, whatever the IV is for. Go ahead.
EMILY ROBERTS, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I mean she looks exhausted. Just look at her. And she`s got a kid and his special needs, she`s working
around the clock. This could have been accidental overdose. Again, people do this often, because he could have been having some symptoms that were -
I don`t think often necessarily, but he could have some symptoms that she thought maybe would be reduced with alcohol. I don`t know. She maybe
wasn`t that intelligent obviously if someone is putting two different medications in this feeding tube or whatever it is. But at the end of the
day, I mean I think it was accidental.
PINSKY: There`s a tweet here - next to you, Emily, says, maybe they thought they were putting him out of his misery. Sick either way.
I don`t - Jennifer, I don`t think .
ROBERTS: If they were going to do that, when they just - and when they just - they wouldn`t have called the cops. They wouldn`t have .
PINSKY: Right. Jennifer, go ahead.
ROBERTS: They would have had a different plan.
KEITT: Yeah, I think that what speaks right here, what speaks volumes to me, is the fact that this boy was not supposed to live. And he`s a walking
miracle at 13 years.
PINSKY: Yes, absolutely.
KEITT: That he continued on. And if she was going to do anything, Dr. Drew, I mean I think we would have seen something, some kind of pattern,
some kind of social media post. Some kind of sign that she was absolutely, you know, through maybe with the boyfriend, husband. I think honestly, I
think it`s what Danine said, I mean, you know, as parents we do, you know, whatever little side remedy, what little - home remedy we might have and
maybe that was something that they had practiced doing. And unfortunately this time it was - It was the .
PINSKY: Danine, (INAUDIBLE) with that?
MANETTE: Yeah, at the same time, though, I think the mom is kind of sketchy, honestly. Because I was looking at some of her back story about
how, you know, she married a guy when she was 20 who was 45 and how he died suddenly. And then the next month she met this boyfriend.
PINSKY: What was his blood-alcohol level?
MANETTE: That`s what I`m saying.
PINSKY: Too serious. Too serious.
MANETTE: I don`t know. She`s a little bit sketchy, too.
KEITT: There was nothing, though, sketchy around the son.
PINSKY: Right. I agree. I agree.
KEITT: With the son.
PINSKY: Yes, we should - I should - I should - it`s not proper for me to kid with something awful like this. We`re just trying to understand it.
But Sam, you have got something about the boyfriend`s social profile. And let me ask this, somebody have tweeted something very appropriate, is this
boyfriend a new player, is he somebody sort of an unknown commodity who himself may have had enough of all this caretaking?
SCHACHER: Oh, that`s a really good question. Well, I do know that just this past Monday, this was the day before his arrest, he did take to his
social media. And this is what he wrote, he said, "the police now want to ask us more questions tomorrow. The boy was well taken care of and loved.
His time was his time. This is injustice and a bag of rock salt in this family`s wounds." And I`m not so sure how long they were together. I feel
like that they were - it wasn`t a brand new relationship.
MANETTE: February.
PINSKY: February.
SCHACHER: Since February.
PINSKY: February, so it`s a pretty new relationship. But Emily .
ROBERTS: They wouldn`t be posting this on Facebook. And they wouldn`t be kind of, you know - they wouldn`t be doing this if they were so guilty. I
think this was an accidental overdose.
MANETTE: But some of his language - some of his language is suspicious. Where he`s saying they - they did the autopsy. And we don`t have anything
to hide. I don`t know why he would have said that. I understand him being upset that they didn`t want the autopsy done, but the fact that he`s saying
we`re not in trouble or we don`t have anything to hide, we`re just - we `re just angry, some of the verbiage that he used in some of his posts were
raising red flags to me.
KEITT: It sounds like it`s defending the murder - I mean they went directly to murder.
PINSKY: And this is crazy, yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: These people could be very ill-equipped to handle this. We don`t know how .
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: They could be kind of not so smart.
PINSKY: Danine, say it again.
SHACHER: The mother is very intelligent. I went through her social profile. And the way that she blogs, the way that she writes, she`s
actually an editor. She`s very intelligent. But maybe, you know, that may not apply .
ROBERTS: But maybe not on the medical front, you know, you never know.
PINSKY: I was going to say, but maybe ..
ROBERTS: Too much alcohol, and then it of itself is a kind of dumb thing to do.
PINSKY: But maybe on the medical front, the problem is the investigators. Maybe they didn`t understand the treatments he was getting. Maybe there`s
missing information here. Maybe this was something - the alcohol. And although she did - they admitted to putting alcohol into the IV ..
MANETTE: Right.
PINSKY: I guess which I can`t understand why they would do that, but maybe .
ROBERTS: To put him to sleep.
PINSKY: Well, but .
DANINE: Isn`t there other remedies still, Dr. Drew?
(CROSSTALK)
KEITT: To ease him, to relax him.
PINSKY: See, the producers are yelling different things in my ears at the same time with you guys yelling different things.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: What I heard was, I read a report before we went on the air that said that they admitted to putting alcohol into the IV. And then somebody
else says they have admitted to vodka. And somebody else says it was in the gastrostomy tube. So there`s a lot of misinformation out there. And
if indeed we`re getting this wrong, his blog or his post there - was that a Twitter post you put up there, or a Facebook post, I guess, it was.
MANETTE: I believe it was Facebook, yeah.
PINSKY: He - this is exactly to the point. It is rock salt on the wound and this poor woman has lost a son. So, and I`ll tell you what, she loved
her son, in spite of his disabilities and to some extent that should be applauded. Let`s not forget that here. And even if this poor woman got
exhausted and blinked, or made a mistake, whatever, still, lots of years - I think it was Jennifer -- who said that to be open .
KEITT: Absolutely. 13 years.
PINSKY: 13 years of care for somebody that really was highly unlikely to live and completely dependent on his parents.
Next up, we have an update on this police taser video. Plus, we`ll hear from the 14-year-old boy who used his cell phone to record it, why do you
record it, what - did he think to cause him to turn the phone on?
And later, we`ll switch gears and talk about the -- oh, Sam, it`s your sco- guard that you mentioned here.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: We are going to show the YouTube commercial for this has over a million hits and you`ll see why. We`ll explain what it all is. Back after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From the back seat of a car, Lisa Mahon`s 14-year-old son videotaped a routine traffic stop that escalated very quickly.
PASSENGER: No, I`m not making it worse now, I`m scared for my life.
Because he just pulled the gun on us, and we don`t have a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On their way to the hospital to visit her dying mother, Mahon was behind the wheel when she was pulled over by Hammond
police for failing to wear a seat belt.
DRIVER: If you`re gonna give me a ticket for no seat belt - it`s right here. Then just give me a ticket so I can go to the hospital, because the
doctor called me to tell me to come in because my mom is about to pass away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mahon`s friend, Jamal Jones, was in the passenger seat. The officer asked him for identification. Jones didn`t have his
driver`s license, because he had been ticketed for not paying insurance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was thinking maybe they were going to shoot us. I felt to protect family, I should have stayed in that vehicle and not move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to open the door?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you say somebody is not going to hurt you? People are getting shot by the police -- ahhh!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Damn!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam. That video has gone viral with nearly 1 million views on YouTube. The family has since filed a federal lawsuit claiming
Hammond police used excessive force. CNN`s Don Lemon talked to the driver, Lisa Mahon and her passenger, Jamal Jones. They say, they were frightened,
and then Sam, they looked frightened. Did they not? I mean .
SCHACHER: Without a doubt. Without a doubt
PINSKY: Yeah. And so the question is, why it escalated so far? Look at the question here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA MAHON: I was initially afraid for the way he pulled me over. He pulled me over abruptly. He went from the left to the right. I didn`t
know which way to pull over. I said oh, my god, he`s pulling me over like I just robbed a bank. When we said no, we was not getting out of the car,
that`s when he went and got the spikes and put it under the tires. So I`m really nervous at this point.
JAMAL JONES: Once they asked my lady to get out of the vehicle and they had their weapons drawn, she wasn`t going to get out of the vehicle. I
felt harm to my family, so I wasn`t going to lead my family out of the car. At the end of the day, and I repeat myself and repeat myself, I have dreams
about this sometimes, I would not have left my family outside that vehicle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: You know, Sam, I was just thinking, we have breaking news.
SCHACHER: We do.
PINSKY: Give us the breaking news.
SCHACHER: Yeah, this is breaking, breaking hot off the presses, Dr. Drew. According to the court documents, the same officer who smashed the window,
has been accused of excessive force three times in the past. At least one of the alleged victims was African-American. All three lawsuits were
settled out of court. And we`re also learning that from -- that the warrant arrest on the passenger, Jamal Jones, he`s reportedly facing a
seven-year-old misdemeanor charge of dealing marijuana. Documents say he never showed up for a 2007 court appearance in relation to that.
PINSKY: But seven years ago.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
PINSKY: Seven years ago.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: I was in New England about a week and a half ago. And I was - got pulled over late at night, I was driving to visit my son. And the cop, you
know, like lights and craziness on me. And I slowed down and tried to find a place to pull over. And pulled in the driveway. He kind of went off on
me for not stopping instantly.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: And I said, I was on a highway. I`m trying to get off - it was actually confusing, it`s a weird feeling when you have that disconnect.
Look at me. The guy was coming at me. I`m bringing Mark and Vanessa and Kayleigh back. Mark, you`re nodding your head when you hear me tell my
story. I was sort of surprised how aggressive he got with me for not stopping instantly. In California, we find a safe place to pull off before
we stop.
EIGLARSH: Absolutely. No, I`ve been through the exact same experience. I mean look at me, I can`t find my way out of a paper bag and I was being
yelled at for what? That being said, let me explain something, and I deal with cops on a daily basis. They have a really tough job. Let`s start
there. It`s a job I don`t want. They risk their lives every day. And what we`ve seen in this videotape is extremely disturbing. Because I`m
thinking about the impact it had on the children.
PINSKY: Yeah.
EIGLARSH: Putting that aside for just one moment, what they did, while factually they might have done things differently, legally they`re on solid
footing. They had every right to ask for identification of the passenger, they had every legal right to ask for him to exit the passenger seat. And
now we know it might not have just been a fear of excessive force that the passenger was worried about, but that he knew that he hadn`t appeared in
court. That`s his issue.
SCHACHER: Seven years ago, though?
PINSKY: But listen, who knows him that maybe .
EIGLARSH: It doesn`t go away.
PINSKY: Yeah, that might be a warrant. Now he might have that in the back of his mind. But Kayleigh, you were nodding vigorously when Mark was
speaking there. And my thing is, yes, I agree with them being on safe legal ground, and them being in - I support the cops completely. But why
go there? I mean it`s excessive, right? There`s got to be a better strategy.
MCENANY: It`s important to include the fact that this guy resisted getting out of the car for 13 minutes, during which he continually turned to the
back seat and was reaching for something. This cop feared for his safety. And you have got to understand, in the back of this cop`s mind, he knows
that a cop dies in the line of duty every 58 hours in this country. That`s 1500 in the last decade, 150 each year. In his own state, four cops have
died this year.
PINSKY: Absolutely, Kayleigh, I am sympathetic. I`m sympathetic, but Vanessa, in the back of the driver and the passenger`s mind is Ferguson.
BARNETT: Exactly. And if it`s OK for this officer to be scared, or to wonder if he`s reaching for something, then it is OK for this man to
realize that he could be in danger, too. He communicated. He said let me show you documents. He didn`t understand why he was being accosted on the
passenger side when he wasn`t the one driving the car. Like we need to be in each other`s shoes and we need to see it from both sides. I get tweet
after tweet saying let`s remove race. Fine. Let`s be color blind. Why so aggressive? Why a taser? There are kids in the back of this car. Why not
listen to this man?
PINSKY: But, Vanessa, if I could - I`m with you, however, why a taser, why not a taser back in Ferguson? I`m glad to see the taser come out and not
the weapon. That`s all I`m saying.
BARNETT: But we have to understand their fear and we have to hear that woman on the phone, I`m scared, I`m scared.
PINSKY: Listen. Let`s look at what CNN Don Lemon .
MCENANY: Vanessa, then why doesn`t .
PINSKY: Here I`ve got to stop, because I want to show what Don Lemon did when he spoke with the driver`s 14-year-old son, the kid that was recording
this whole incident, Joseph. And this is actually very interesting. He was asked why he picked up the phone and started recording. What motivated
him in the first place?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH, SON, 14, RECORDS IT ON CELL PHONE: They actually was wrong from the beginning, from first when they stopped us the way how he pulled it
off. And how he began. He cussed Jamal out, and he was getting very aggressive with my mom. And then he called a backup of a seat belt
violation. So I started videotaping it. And I knew if we took this to court, we had something to fight against them, because police have more
power than us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: CNN received the two-page statement from the Hammond Police Department addressing the smashed window reason part, quote, "fearing the
occupants of the vehicle possessed a weapon and seeing the passenger repeatedly reach towards the rear of the seats of the vehicle, the first
officer then broke the passenger side window."
Sam, that`s what we keep hearing .
SCHACHER: Yeah.
PINSKY: Is that they were fearful. I get that. But don`t we have better strategies?
SCHACHER: Thank you. Definitely I think that fear motivated both sides. I think that police officer had fear in his mind when he believed that this
passenger had a gun in his backpack. Even though the - the passenger was announcing, I`m going to the backseat, I`m going to my backpack. But then
again, the passenger should have gotten out of the car. However, he had a gun pulled to his face. We don`t know what other situations - we don`t
know what other situations he`s also been, and that contributed to his distrust of law enforcement. So I think we can all agree, as a panel, that
there does need to be some reform here, there does need to be a building of trust again. Because we`ve lost that.
PINSKY: And Mark, I`m interested in what you have -- I know you want to make another comment, too. But let me piggy back on that and ask about the
14-year-old saying I feel so disempowered and need to make sure I have documentation in case something goes bad here.
BARNETT: At 14 years old.
EIGLARSH: Oh, I get it. I get it. And at this point, it`s not a bad idea. Assuming .
PINSKY: Not a bad idea for all of us maybe.
EIGLARSH: But let me say this. This, to me, on - Well, yes and no. But I`ve represented people that the cops that arrest you for trumped up
charges like resisting. I have to say this, what I see at play on both sides is ego. And I said it before, I`ll say it again, your ego is not
your amigo.
PINSKY: Next up, he said, ego is not your amigo.
SCHACHER: Write that down.
PINSKY: Mark this date, Sam. Let`s remember this day.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: I`m going to - report next about a seven-year-old girl sitting in the back seat when the police smashed the window. We are going to hear
from her, and later, our most tweeted story of the day. It`s Sam`s scro- guard. I mean it`s what .
SCHACHER: My scro-guard?
PINSKY: It`s what you showed us in the opening of the show.
SCHACHER: Careful there!
PINSKY: I beg your pardon, I beg your pardon.
SCHACHER: Geez!
PINSKY: It`s what she showed us in the beginning of the show that she said we have to see the video. We`ll explain. We`ll explain. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DRIVER: If you`re going to give me a ticket for no seatbelt, then just give me a ticket so I can go to the hospital. Because the doctor called me
to tell me to come in because my mom is about to pass away.
No, I`m not making it worse now, I`m scared for my life.
Because he just pulled a gun on us and we don`t have a fun.
OFFICER: Sir, just so you know, we got a camera recording here. You are on a body mic. I suggest you come out of the car.
PASSENGER: You a white shirt?
OFFICER: What`s that?
PASSENGER: A white shirt. I`m going to ask what`s going on. I just gave you my information. I don`t know what`s going on.
I don`t know what`s going on. I`ve got to get out of the vehicle from being on the passenger side. Do you know what I`m saying? You got
somebody that`s a sergeant, yo?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right here. That`s right there.
PASSENGER: I just gave them my information.
DRIVER: No, don`t mess my - now they are about to mess my - no!
PASSENGER: I`m not the operator of this vehicle, so if you do that - alright, I`m not the operations of this vehicle.
OFFICER: Are you going to open the door?
DRIVER: Why do you say somebody`s not going to hurt you? People are getting shot by the police. Ah!
PASSENGER: Ah!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and the behavior bureau, Danine, Emily and Jennifer. And, of course, that tape was edited for time. The family has since filed
a lawsuit, accusing Hammond, Indiana police of malice and reckless indifference. Seating in that back seat was the driver`s seven-year-old
daughter Janaia (ph) and 14-year-old son Joseph. He was the one recording the incident on his cell phone. Including the emotional aftermath. Look
at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PASSENGER: Ah!
DRIVER: Horrible!
DRIVER: Are you recording that?
SON: Yeah.
DRIVER: This is terrible.
PASSENGER: I told you all my kids are in the car, man. Why would you all do that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: CNN`s Don Lemon talked to Janaia and her older brother Joseph. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH: The window shattered, after they hit it. I feel scared - I was scared. But that`s what really gave me the courage to keep videotaping it.
SEVEN-YEAR OLD PASSENGER: I was just .
DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You`re OK?
SEVEN-YEAR OLD PASSENGER: I was just doing nothing. No, I`m not OK. I`m very scared because after they like got the little pole - got the pole and
just got the window, that`s when I got scared. It was so, so scary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jennifer, we have another generation afraid of police now. Is that OK? Is that the goal here?
KEITT: And you know what Dr. Drew? I mean it begs to be able to be said. So, how do we then, as African-American people, what kind of conversation
do you think we`re having now at our dinner room tables, dining room tables with our kids, with our spouses, with anyone? You know, I think it`s
what`s interesting here. I can play it over in my mind again and again. And I wonder if the boyfriend had not been in the car, would they have just
not ticketed the mom and let her go? Was it because he was an African- American male, and let`s be honest, he might have looked frightening, or because we are so programmed to think that black men are criminals, that I
really wonder does that add to it when it`s a routine traffic stop? We`ve got to have a national conversation in which we can honestly and openly say
how we feel, how we think, how we`re processing, so we can get to some answers.
PINSKY: And Danine, you see both sides, right? You can understand very vividly the law enforcement side. So, where are you on this?
MANETTE: I understand both sides. And look, there was obvious profiling going on here. All of us have been stopped by an officer for a routine
traffic stop, and how many of us have our passengers ordered out of the car? Usually you get your ticket, you sign for it, you go on. So,
obviously there was some type of profiling going on. But he shouldn`t have been asked to get out of the car. I know that the officer had a right to
do that, but just because you have a right doesn`t mean you have a reason. Now, secondly, you know, what the passenger needed to have done is waive
this. And decided, you know, what, the probability of being shot or beat up if I get out of the car right now is probably about 10 percent. The
probability .
PINSKY: Really?
MANETTE: Of being shot or beat up, if I stay in the car for 13 minutes and argue with you is about 100 percent. So, at some point you`ve got to weigh
the probability and take your chances and decide .
ROBERTS: But they did - they did beat him up in his own car in front of his kids. I mean they did beat him up in front of his kids, so the
probability, even though it`s ten percent, it still happened. I mean I wouldn`t have gone out of the car if I was him either at this point. They
had a gun. He wasn`t reaching for a gun.
MANETTE: It wasn`t going to end well for him regardless. It wasn`t going to end well regardless.
ROBERTS: Of course.
MANETTE: He was not going to win in that situation. So it probably would have been better for him to have just gotten out of the car earlier. It
was broad daylight. It was being recorded, and taken his chances. He had a less likelihood of getting beaten up had he gotten out of the car
initially, in my opinion, than waiting and .
ROBERTS: And they were on their way to go say goodbye to the grandmother. There was a lot of stress. He probably wasn`t thinking properly. Think
about this. I mean that poor kid, can we go back to the kids for a second? That poor little girl, saying goodbye to grandma is one thing. And then
seeing all this. Let`s talk about trauma.
MANETTE: It`s horrible.
ROBERTS: My god. Did this police officers at least had a little bit better judgment? What is going on here?
PINSKY: Yeah, Sam.
ROBERTS: It`s horrible. They were obviously being profiled. Obviously.
SCHACHER: Yeah, it`s happening way too often. And you can just imagine being in the passenger`s shoes, just thinking about cases like the Oscar
Grant case and looking at images at Ferguson. I agree, he should have gotten out of the car. But you also have to try to walk a mile in his
shoes. But I agree with you, Jennifer, I love what you said, I love the idea of all of us having this conversation. Because it needs to be an
American problem. Because I know that there are a lot of great police officers out there. But then who are the ones policing the officers who
are using excessive force and are not really looking out for their community?
KEITT: Because that`s the problem. There are great police officers out there. And how do we pick and choose when we are - you know, if we get
stopped? How do we know? That`s too much pressure.
PINSKY: And, Jennifer, and every town has to feel their own little police department. You know, and the standards are a little variables, if you
move across the country, and the resources and money available to fund a really good high quality services variables. So we may need to standardize
things. I don`t know. I`m not an expert. This is something we`ll keep talking about. But next, we`re going to switch gears entirely, because it
is the most shared story on our Facebook page. This scroguard will get our attention and we`ll explain what it is and how it works, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scroguard. Because protection is everything. Part of the skin of your genital area has a cover. But most are still exposed to
your lover. Not anymore. Now there`s scroguard. The powerful new product that you can wear with any condom. The secret is the high quality premium
latex that is thick enough to cover your genital area but thin enough to feel like a second skin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Vanessa, Emily. Joining us thankfully, Ali Nejad, HLN correspondent. This is the most shared story on hlntv.com, our
Facebook page. Ali, would you like to host the show for a little while?
(LAUGHTER)
ALI NEJAD, HLN CORRESPONDENT: This is - I have so much to say about this. First off, how about that guy`s voice that they`re using. It`s not a 390x
infomercial. They`re trying to make you feel like a bad-ass when you`re wearing a latex girdle. Are you kidding me?
(LAUGHTER)
NEJAD: They say it`s reusable and re-washable. What else do you put in that load of laundry? And did you see the size of the hole? Are you
kidding me? I thought it was a kuzi (ph). What, are you supposed to put a Pepsi through there? What kind of gerth (ph) are your working ..
PINSKY: And it`s supposed to be used with a condom, right? Ali, is that how it works?
NEJAD: Yes.
PINSKY: And - I mean the idea - Emily, you and I have spent a lot of time talking to young people about STDs and about health risks of sexual
behavior. It`s a legitimate concern this thing is addressing.
ROBERTS: Yes.
PINSKY: I`m trying to make this OK - and .
ROBERTS: The skin to skin contact, right?
PINSKY: There as well, there are virus in fluids, if you get what I`m saying. And so where fluids contact skin, the virus can get through. So,
it`s herpes virus, HPV, human papilloma virus, even syphilis, these sorts of things. Although the syphilis is more skin to skin. And how do you
talk to young people about these sorts of issues? Do you say -- there`s a list of contagions. And that`s another thing that you can get - it`s a
very serious condition. Is this where we`re going? Is this legitimate? You help me, Emily.
ROBERTS: But with the rise in HPV, right, and the rise in cervical cancer, we`re seeing a lot more people who are being a little bit more protective,
right?
PINSKY: Why aren`t they taking the vaccine? And that prevents it completely.
ROBERTS: That`s a great question, and I agree with you on that, I absolutely agree with you on that, and there`s a lot of people who would
want to hook up and they don`t want to take the ramifications. Or they don`t think it`s for them, but we have to have the conversation about OK,
if you`re going to hook up, can we at least protect each other a little bit more? Even if you look kind of ridiculous wearing this adult diaper? At
the end of the day, what is it doing, it`s keeping you from going to Planned Parenthood or going to have a baby, essentially, well - but let`s
be honest here, by yourself. You don`t know everyone - I mean they don`t know everything about each other. Until there`s an app out there that can
at least tell us, what`s going on, let`s wear these adult diapers, come on.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: There`s a ton packed into what Emily just said. Now, Vanessa, first of all, get your - put your mouth back - up again, your mouth was
dropped a bit in this. Go ahead, what are you thinking?
BARNETT: There`s nothing sexy about this. Nothing about this screams, let`s get it on. First of all, it`s a thong that is going up that man`s
butt.
ROBERTS: But there`s nothing sexy about herpes.
BARNETT: There`s nothing sexy about herpes, so if you think the person you`re about to get with, if you even think like there`s a millimeter of
thought that this man might have it or this woman might have it, let`s just not sleep together. Let`s go get some .
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: It`s happening. Let`s think about that.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: I can guarantee you, I put money on it.
PINSKY: Sam? Sam, they can also take anti-viral medication.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: They could take the HPV vaccine. They could - you know, there are things to be done other than wearing some .
SCHACHER: It looks like partly, like something that`s a sumo wrestler would wear. And .
PINSKY: Yeah, something - it`s made out of rubber.
SCHACHER: Yeah, and then like that mask that Hannibal Lector wears, but instead it goes on the penis area. I`m sorry. It`s scary. I like the
idea of added protection. I like the idea - I think that if you`re in a long-term relationship and maybe somebody has genital warts you would use
this, because .
PINSKY: No, no.
SCHACHER: Because you love them and you wouldn`t care. But what do you mean? You would be more open to it. But if it was a fling, it is
atrocious, and I think it will scare people.
PINSKY: You get the vaccine.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Ali .
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: I like it how you are thinking. Ali, hold your thought. I want to get you - the open on the next break. I remind you, you can find us any
time on Instagram at Dr. Drew HLN. Ali has got his guns loaded. We`re going to hear what he has got to say in just seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got an intimate encounter with someone new? Now there`s scroguard. The powerful new product that you can wear with any
condom. Just fasten any two buttons securely into place. And when you`re ready, tuck the condom into the base. Scroguard, because protection is
everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Vanessa, Emily and Ali. But I have no words.
SHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: I am speechless.
NEJAD: Oh, I`ve got words.
PINSKY: Well, hold on. All right, let me just remind people that - this is scroguard, it`s called, to protect themselves from sexually transmitted
diseases. They`re $20 apiece. As Ali pointed out, they`re reusable. Although, I - quite get that, if they are to protect against STDs. And you
have a discount if you buy a six pack, Ali.
SCHACHER: Good!
BARNETT: Like an infomercial.
NEJAD: This thing - this thing is the arousal assassin. I`m getting a reverse erection just thinking about it. And the beauty of it is, you
don`t have to worry about safe sex, because you`re not going to have sex if you put one of these things on. No woman is going to be flattered and
think, oh, baby, it`s not you, it`s me. That`s who I`m going to - are you kidding me? Absolutely not. You might as well slap a biohazard sticker on
the girl. And toss her aside. I mean that`s how I would feel if someone threw this thing on.
PINSKY: Danine Manette, speaking of what - Sam, I was going to ask Sam what the social media response is. But Danine Manette - everybody can read
this. It`s a long side - Sam, what has the social media response been?
SCHACHER: I have too many to count, Dr. Drew. So, let me just read off a couple from Tony. "Guys don`t like to wear condoms, so why would they wear
this?" From Patty. "If you`re that concerned, I would abstain. That`s absolutely ridiculous."
MANETTE: Exactly. Yes.
PINSKY: Ali.
NEJAD: I mean --
PINSKY: Help.
(LAUGHTER)
NEJAD: I`m trying to help you, they`re going to sell four of these things and it`s going to be people who accidently click through thinking they were
buying something different. I mean there`s no way that you ever going to get some if you throw this .
PINSKY: Wait, news, breaking news. Vanessa, they are sold out.
VANESSA: What, they made like four? No, what kind of fun sex are you having with this things strapped to your midsection? Like no creativity,
no fun positions or moves. Like you`re not getting down with this thing on, bottom line.
PINSKY: You know, here, Emily, I`ve got just a few seconds, I probably want to have a chance to have you - but it makes me think that we need to
get better with our barriers. You know, more creative. There`s spray-on latexes. There are stuff out there. If people are really - not taking the
vaccines, not taking their meds, then we need to be more creative, and this is not the answer, I`m sorry to say. Everybody, DVR us right now, then you
can watch us any time and you can see that video over and over again. "Forensic Files" is up right now.
END
