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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

St. Louis Unrest After Officer Shoots Teen; Police Seize Taxi That May be a Link to Harrington Case; A History of Excessive Force for Hammond, Indiana Police

Aired October 10, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Another night of trouble in St. Louis and a, quote, "weekend of resistance" is upon us. One protester calls the city a racial powder keg.

OK. So what's worse than shouting "fire" in a crowded movie theater? How about sneezing and then saying "Ebola" on an airplane. Just wait until you see the crazy passenger video straight ahead.

And remember that drunken brawl outside of the Alaska party just after the Sarah Palin family showed up? Well, guess what, the full police report is out and all the rogue details.

Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

This was already set to be a tense weekend in St. Louis County as a movement called "Ferguson October" brings in activists from around the country for what's being called a weekend of resistance. Resistance to a purported epidemic of police violence facing black and brown communities and epitomized for many by the killing of Ferguson teen Michael Brown in August.

But now comes a new outrage in the minds of St. Louis citizens who say they just do not trust their police. Wednesday's killing of an armed - not an unarmed, an armed black teenager by a white off-duty St. Louis patrolman. We've now seen two nights of violent protests. Last night, one officer hurt, eight people arrested and at least one American flag torched.

My CNN colleague Sara Sidner is in Ferguson right now.

So set the scene for me and tell me what's happening now, Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right now things are calm. The rain is coming down. The first major protest that has been planned was supposed to happen in just a couple of hours, around 3:00 our time outside the prosecuting attorney's office. And you know that the grand jury is still looking into whether or not they're going to indict Darren Wilson, the officer who is -- shot and killed Michael Brown.

But this other case that you mentioned in St. Louis, well, the protests started early and they did turn violent.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER (voice-over): Overnight, Shaw (ph) Boulevard turned chaotic. Police using pepper spray on the crowd of protesters as a tense standoff quickly escalates.

CHIEF SAM DOTSON, ST. LOUIS POLICE: A large knife came flying out of the crowd.

SIDNER: Police say they were asking the crowd of protesters to disperse around midnight when this knife, here on the ground, was hurled towards the officers, hitting one of them in the shoulder.

DOTSON: It just shows how the emotions and how quickly this situation can turn.

SIDNER: Protesters also smashing the windows of a police car. Someone throwing a brick at this police SUV.

DOTSON: I understand the emotions, but there's some things that you just can't tolerate and that's one of them.

SIDNER: What started out as a peaceful vigil early Thursday evening later reignited anger over the killing of black teenager Vonderrit Myers, shot by a white off-duty St. Louis Police officer working a security job. Police say Myers was no stranger to them. Myers pictured here for a gun charge back in June. An autopsy revealed the 18-year- old was shot seven or eight times. The fatal wound, a gunshot to his right cheek.

CROWD: This is what democracy looks like.

SIDNER: A call for justice reminiscent of the outrage over unarmed teenager Michael Brown's shooting only two months ago. Allegedly with his hands up, Brown was shot six times by a white police officer only 12 miles away in Ferguson, Missouri. A grand jury is currently hearing the case and will decide if charges are brought against Officer Darren Wilson.

But this most recent shooting may be different. Police say Myers fired a .9 millimeter pistol three times at the officer. The officer then firing a total of 17 times. The weapon, recovered at the scene. Myers' family members insist though that the teenager was unarmed and holding a sandwich at the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a right to have a life, just like anyone else.

SIDNER: And some people are building their own narrative, expressing distrust of the St. Louis Police Department.

AKBAR MUHAMMAD, COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: It's a clear case of this young man being gunned down by an insensitive white officer who was off duty. He chased him off a corner.

CROWD: No peace. SIDNER: Protesters pushing the limit with police and burning the American flag. In this divided community, racial tensions and nerves on edge again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: And they are expecting perhaps thousands of people to show up for these protests that will kick off in just a bit. They are expected to last through Monday and that gulf of mistrust between many in the African-American community and the police seems to be growing.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: What exactly are they doing, though, to prepare for - I mean, look, we all watched in horror as we saw different, you know, police communities coming in to respond to an escalating problem in Ferguson. So what kind of mechanics are they putting in place for this weekend?

SIDNER: Well, hopefully they've learned from the last time, when military equipment was brought in, that many said just heightens the protest and made things much worse for this particular city itself. But we do know that they have got extra shifts, that all the officers are going to be on duty. So they are preparing in case there are thousands of people who show up for these protests. And again, there are several protests that are scheduled throughout today, tomorrow, Sunday and there's one on Monday as well, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Sara Sidner reporting live for us. Thank you for that.

There's just so much here that cries out for attention. I'm joined now by CNN legal analyst Mark O'Mara in Las Vegas, HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson is at CNN Center in Atlanta, along with Cedric Alexander, he's the director of public safety in DeKalb County, Georgia, and the president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives. He's also a psychologist. So a lot of smarts on this panel.

Mark, I just want to start with you. It really stands out when you see protests who say it's not about an armed teenager, this is a lie. They don't believe the police story. So if you could lay out for me, what is the reality of creating a forensic lie in a police situation? I mean we're talking about a lot of different apartments, we're talking about a lot of responders. How easy might that actually be?

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's absolutely going to be quite difficult. You know, the idea of, you know, 20, 30 years ago where a cop has an extra gun in his pocket and he throws it on the ground, those days are long gone. It's going to be forensic testing done on the weapon that was found to see that it was fired recently. They'll probably - they'll find the casings. They may find a bullet or two somewhere near the officers. So I understand that their frustration is not specific to the facts of that case. It's a frustration that's now permeating everything we look at with every police and black intersection. But I think we're going to find out that that kid, unfortunately, shot at the officer and it was a good shooting back. You cannot shoot at a police officer.

BANFIELD: So the genesis of that notion, of that feeling, Dr. Alexander, that right away the support went to the black teenager and that something must have been wrong with the police officer's actions. I want to just read something that came out yesterday. It was a study that was commissioned by the Boston Police and it found that while African-Americans make up 25 percent of that city's population, in just a few recent years, they accounted for more than 60 percent of people who were actually stopped by the police.

So I think the question that's on everyone's mind when you see statistics like that, understandably lots of statics can be manipulated but this is pretty clear-cut. This was commissioned by the police, done by the ACLU. Are African-Americans committing a disproportionate number of the crimes out there or are police committing a disproportionate amount of stops and checks and suspicions on African-Americans?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, DIR. OF PUBLIC SAFETY, DEKALB CO. GEORGIA: Well, one thing I think we can be very clear about that, from that report, that I'm going - that I had an opportunity to read, it is pretty alarming, to be perfectly honest with you. And I think what is occurring out there, there is just an interaction that is taking place in many African-American communities that's really creating a great deal of pause because one of the things in that report, 75 percent of those interaction that police had they couldn't account for them.

BANFIELD: They just couldn't account for them at all? There was just no reason for the stops, no probable cause, nothing?

ALEXANDER: They - from that report, that was absolutely the case. Twenty-three percent of the population in Boston is black and 75 percent of those interactions in that community, there -- it appeared from that report to be absolutely no reason for those stops. That is troubling in this day and time and it sets up a dynamic in a community that really just make it very difficult for people in that community to trust police.

BANFIELD: OK. And that dynamic is exactly what I want to get to here. And I'm going to do this in an unusual way, if you'll permit me, guys.

Mark, I want to read something that you read - that you wrote recently in an op-ed and, Joey, I want you to respond to it. I think there - it's a really profound thought and I think it need - we all need to think through it.

"Consider the very first interactions. A cop and a young black male interact on the street and both give the other a bit of attitude. The officer gives some attitude because he's tired of getting attitude from other young men and the young man gives some attitude because he's tired of getting attitude from other cops. Now, who's at fault? This, as simple as it sounds, is how it starts. If you want to say the cop's at fault because he's the adult with training, you are right. And if you want to say the young man is at fault for disrespect or mistrust of a cop's authority, you are right."

So, Joey Jackson, with Mark O'Mara's words and him standing right next to you, what do you do about that impasse?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I did evaluate Mark O'Mara's op-ed. Mark, I applaud you for that. I think it was very well stated. Though the issue is, is that there's a divide. And it speaks to a larger issue.

Now first, Ashleigh, there's always going to be a tension between the Fourth Amendment, right, the right that we all have to be left alone, right? But yet the right that we all have to want to be walking in freedom and to want to have the crime detected and crime deterred. And so there needs to be an understanding as between young African- American males and as between the police department. There needs to be mutual respect. There needs to be tolerance. There needs to be a bridging of the gap of the cultural divide. And so the issue is not so much who's right, the issue is, how can we be tolerant of each other? How can we bring police into schools, into churches, into communities? How can we uplift the level of trust and respect?

And when you get to the point where there's no trust and you telling me that it was justified to shoot someone seven times and you're not going to tell me he had a gun and even forensically I'm not going to believe it, that's a problem and that stems from root causes that weren't just occurring yesterday. And so it's a great discussion to have, Ashleigh, but it's only going to be a discussion that emanates and that has meaning in the event that we could bring police into these communities and uplift the trust between the community, the young, you know, males who are being stopped and apparently for little basis or reason and until it makes sense to all of us so that we can have police to protect and serve as opposed to intimidate communities. And that's the problem.

BANFIELD: Amen. And, you know what, Dr. Alexander mentioned this just yesterday, there needs to be a broad series of meetings across the country between the African-American community and between the policing community and they need to get it straight because this can't stand..

ALEXANDER: That's correct.

BANFIELD: To the three of you, thank you so much for your perspectives.

JACKSON: Thank you, Ashleigh.

ALEXANDER: Thank you.

BANFIELD: I've got more to go to on this show, but I just wanted to say, this is such a critical time for this conversation and you have terrific minds, all three of you. Thanks.

There's also a new development in the disappearance of a UVA student. You remember Jesse Matthews? He was charged in the disappearance of Hannah Graham. And now police are investigating a taxi cab. It was a taxi cab that was driven by him, owned by him. But could it tie him to the death of another college student? Does it have anything to do with Hannah? Details, coming up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Police in Virginia are carefully going over and picking apart a car today looking for anything that might connect the missing persons' case to their number one suspect.

The car is a taxi cab once owned by this man, Jesse Matthew. The last person seen with college student Hannah Graham when she vanished last month.

Mr. Matthew is now linked to another college student who disappeared suspiciously five years ago. Erin McPike has been following this one.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jesse Matthew has been in contact now for two weeks, the last person to see Hannah Graham before she disappeared four weeks ago.

Police have linked him also now to Morgan Harrington. A source with knowledge of the investigation says police have seized a taxi cab owned by Matthew.

Law enforcement sources say they have already linked Matthew to Harrington's disappearance.

Last month, Harrington's parents say they want to prevent another tragedy.

GIL HARRINGTON, MORGAN HARRINGTON'S MOTHER: We're not joyful. There's no celebration here. We're kind of stunned, but we also are, you know, devastated that it has come through Hannah Graham being missing.

MCPIKE: In 2005, Matthew got a business license to drive a cab in the city of Charlottesville. State and federal investigators believe Matthew was driving a cab for a new defunct company called access the night Morgan went missing. Fellow drivers remember Matthew.

MARK BROWN, YELLOW CAB OWNER: Our understanding, again, is that he was driving a cab the night that Morgan Harrington was abducted.

MCPIKE: Her body was found months later in 2010, ten miles from where last seen from where she was seen getting into a taxi. 2010 was also the last year Matthew renewed his license to drive a cab in the city of Charlottesville.

Investigators say they interviewed several cab drivers at the time.

MELVIN CARTER, CAB DRIVER: They asked what dark color cars there was of cabs around, and I went down a list and asked them, could I seen them again, and said what cab company was it?

And he told me. And when he told me, I'm like, OK, great. It wasn't us.

MCPIKE: Matthew's attorney is not commenting on the case. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Erin McPike is live for us now in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Erin, if you could get me up to speed on the status of the search for Hannah Graham and what other people who know Jesse Matthew are saying about him.

MCPIKE: Ashleigh, as far as that search is concerned, I spoke with a representative from the Charlottesville police department today, and he told me this is still their number one mission, is finding Hannah Graham.

But I was here two weeks ago, and this search is no closer to being over. They have no real leads. They are telling people to search and research their property. Just still no signs of her.

Now, as far as what people are saying about Jesse Matthew, we spoke to some cab drivers, and we have heard from some others in the area that, back when, after Morgan Harrington died and there was a sketch of the suspect in that case, some of his co-workers at the time suggested that his face resembled the person in that sketch, and what these co- workers even said is that he got visibly upset, and sometimes disappeared for hours.

Now, that is no smoking gun, but it's something that people are clinging to here as they build a case against him, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: It is fascinating.

Erin McPike in Charlottesville, Virginia, thank you for that.

I want to bring in Mel Robbins. She's here. She's a CNN legal analyst sitting beside Mark Geragos, a CNN legal analyst as well, two great criminal minds here and the work that you have done in many courtrooms across the country.

First and foremost, a taxi cab, I hear that, and I think bonanza, and then I hear it's five years ago. So comment on what it could yield and how it's also problematic, and you go first, Mark.

MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's problematic, obviously, because the number of people in and out of there and the number of transfers of DNA and other kinds of forensic evidence can be in there, whether it's hair evidence, looking for mitochondrial evidence, things of that nature, you could have literally thousands of mixtures of samples and things of that sort.

However, I've had the case, I've defended the case where we found a car or a truck, specifically, three or four years after the crime -- and it was an attempted murder -- and we were able to find evidence in there that linked it up to who we thought the real perpetrator was.

So, sometimes it's a long shot, but the long shots do pay off sometimes. BANFIELD: And sometimes isn't it just another piece in the puzzle? And

I'm all for thinking, look, maybe the DNA is degraded if there ever is any in there to start with, but there's also the possibility of hair and fibers, and fibers live for a very long time.

It's still a long shot, isn't it?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It is a long shot. And there were some reports that said that the cab had actually been cleaned.

The thing that I find curious, Ashleigh, is this is a cab --

BANFIELD: Let's hope the cab has been cleaned in five years.

ROBBINS: No, no, no. Meaning, let's just hypothetically say there is something nefarious going on, which we know that there is, and what was being reported is that the cab has been scrubbed, as if it was purposefully dumped, which it looked like it was, and abandoned, after, of course, he probably picked up Morgan.

But the thing I find curious is how has it gone five years that a cab is parked on somebody's property. They said they found it on a farm. I mean, my grandparents are farmers. Even hundreds of acres, you would have come across it.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: Mark's point is correct. The fact that there's so many passengers coming in and out could make it very difficult.

BANFIELD: Make it is very difficult. Although, you know what, needles in haystacks have been found in criminal cases before. Let's hope they find something, anything, that will advance this, especially for these families.

Mark and Mel, thank you. Appreciate it.

Stick around. Other stories to come. Some brand-new developments in the police traffic stop in Indiana that ended badly -- like this, smashing the car window, kids in the back, tasering the passenger.

Well, another woman says that she wasn't surprised that the police officer did this because apparently he did something just as scary to her family, and she ended up in the hospital afterwards.

We've got the details on her story and the lawsuit that she filed, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Some new developments today in the case of the police officers in Indiana accused of using excessive force during a traffic stop. Let me remind you, this, what you're about to see, happened two- and-a-half weeks ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED: Ah!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Painful every time you witness this, Hammond, Indiana, local police smashing a passenger window of a car that they had stopped on a seatbelt violation, then tasing the man in the passenger seat.

Jones's lawyer tells us that police issued an arrest warrant, stemming from a marijuana charge from seven years ago.

In the meantime, Susan Candiotti met a woman who knows the police officer who smashed that window and she says she's afraid of him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yolanda, have you seen that video?

YOLANDA GRAY, LAWSUIT PLAINTIFF: Absolutely. Oh, my goodness. It just brings back memories.

CANDIOTTI: Yolanda gray does more than cringe seeing this video of police smashing in a car window after a couple is stopped for not wearing seat belts.

It shows Hammond, Indiana police using a stun gun on Jamal Jones after refusing to get out of his girlfriend's car after a 13-minute standoff. Yolanda recognizes the officer shattering the window.

GRAY: That's the guy, the same one that tackled me, the one that busted the glass open.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my goodness. The baby is crying. I heard my baby crying. She was standing in the street.

CANDIOTTI: In 2006, Gray and her family were pulled out of their car moments after leaving their driveway. No one told them why. Police ordered her husband to get out of the car. He complied.

This is where it happened?

GRAY: This is exactly where it happened. They asked me to get out of the car. I get out of the car with my hands up, and the one that tackled me came from this side of the street, and as I was almost where I needed to be, he tackled me. I never saw him coming.

CANDIOTTI: Gray says she was bruised and manhandled after being put down on the street.

According to court papers, police say she refused to get out of the car and when she did, started running before police tackled her.

GRAY: My eldest son jumped out of the car screaming, that's my mom, that was my mom. He was put into a chokehold and a gun put on his head. CANDIOTTI: And your other son?

GRAY: My other son was taken out of the car, and he was handcuffed.

CANDIOTTI: And your daughter?

GRAY: My daughter, they didn't even -- no one attended to the baby.

CANDIOTTI: Turns out, she and her lawyer say it was a case of mistaken identity, that police were allegedly looking for a man who she says looked nothing like her husband.

Yet, Gray's husband was charged with disorderly conduct, and they were both also charged with resisting an officer. She says she declined a plea offer before trial.

GRAY: They said they would give us one last chance. If we would just write a letter of apology, they would drop all of the charges.

CANDIOTTI: And you said --

GRAY: Absolutely not.

CANDIOTTI: The couple was acquitted and sued the same officer, two others and the city on a civil rights claim. They settled out of court.

So when she heard and saw the glass shattering incident a few weeks ago, it hit home.

What kind of memories does this bring back to you?

GRAY: Oh, the most horrific memories. My kids' innocence was taken that day.

CANDIOTTI: A lot of people are wondering, why didn't the man just get out of the car and that might have ended the whole thing?

GRAY: I am enraged every time someone makes that comment because they have no idea, and we did everything that they asked but the moment that we got out, that was when the horrific harassment started.

CANDIOTTI: CNN has been unable to reach the police department for comment on the 2006 case.

The officer who Gray says killed her, coincidentally, the same one seen breaking the glass in this separate incident also could not be reached.