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Iraqis Send U.S. Troops to Anbar; Ebola Patient Being Treated in Spain; U.S. Airports To Screen For Ebola; U.S. Airports Start Ebola Screenings; Ferguson and the Civil Rights Movement; Obama Presidency: Success or Failure?

Aired October 11, 2014 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Hello, again, I'm Ana Cabrera, glad to have you with me.

Now, officials in one part of Iraq are saying we need American combat troops here now. I'm talking about Anbar province, that is where Fallujah and Ramadi are located, this is just west of Baghdad as you can see here on the map. Now, government leaders are saying, the invasion of ISIS fighters is just too overwhelming, they described the security situation in Anbar as very bad.

Now, people are also afraid in another place where ISIS militants are reportedly gaining the upper hand. We're talking about in Syria the city of Kobani. U.S. and coalition warplanes did hit ISIS targets yesterday and again today both around Kobani as well as inside Iraq but still we're told ISIS keeps advancing.

Ben Wedeman, our senior international correspondent is gathering the latest from Baghdad. Ben, what can you tell us?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fresh ISIS recruits train to retrieve the wounded from the battlefield. In a newly released propaganda video from the group entitled blood of jihad, it's clear ISIS doesn't lack for fresh recruits.

(SPEAKING ARABIC)

The training includes religious instruction, mostly about the importance of fighting, killing and martyrdom.

(SPEAKING ARABIC)

Men like these could soon be part of the ongoing effort by ISIS to take all of Iraq's vast Anbar province which extends to the outskirts of Baghdad. Officials in Anbar tell CNN they believe as many as 10,000 ISIS fighters have been sent from Syria and northern Iraq to Anbar to join the offensive. Two months of coalition air strikes in Anbar have targeted ISIS but haven't halted its advances. Another video released by ISIS purports to show a downed drone. ISIS already controls 80 percent of Anbar. Saturday, ISIS forces surrounded El Haditha the last remaining town fully under government control and made further inroads into Ramadi. ISIS now holds almost every major population center in Anbar.

On the outskirts of Baghdad, also in Anbar, Iraqi army troops keep a wary eye on the horizon but their hold on the province is slipping day by day. The army has been plagued by absenteeism, corruption and incompetence hardly the ingredients for success. Anbar's provincial council says, it's appealing to the government in Baghdad for American forces to join the battle. Although Baghdad has until now made it clear it doesn't want U.S. ground troops and the Obama administration has repeatedly insisted no combat troops will be deployed here.

(on camera): As all this weren't grim enough a series of car bombs in the capital as well as government controlled areas indicates that ISIS is following a two-pronged approach to take more territory and to sow terror in those areas it doesn't control.

CABRERA: So, Ben, given just how close Anbar is to Baghdad, tell us what you're seeing on the outskirts of Baghdad. How heavy are the city's defenses?

WEDEMAN: Well, they seem to be fairly robust. We were -- we went and toured some of those defenses the other day. It's always important to stress, however, that when the Iraqi army or any army for that matter takes you for a field trip, they usually show you only what they want you to see, so what we saw was fairly capable, well-armed, disciplined Iraqi troops on the defensive line.

But the shortcomings of the Iraqi army are well known. They have problems with absenteeism where some of the soldiers pay their commanding officers so they can be basically be absent with officers' leave in this case. Some of them going back to Baghdad and working as taxi drivers. There's rampant corruption within the ranks of the officer corps and as we've seen going back to June when the Iraqi army fled leaving so much of its expensive American equipment behind in Mosul in June, clearly they have a few shortcomings and these shortcomings may be apparent around the defenses of Baghdad in areas where reporters aren't going -- Linda.

CABRERA: Ben Wedeman, thank you for that reporting there on the ground giving us a clear picture now of what's happening in real time.

Our military analyst Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona is joining me. Also, Jamie Dettmer a writer for The Daily Beast who is currently in Turkey. So, Colonel Francona we are told ISIS fighters are now just eight miles from Baghdad. How big of a threat is this? Could they take the city?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET): Well, I doubt it, they're eight miles from the airport which is critical to any kind of evacuation plan that we have. We also have apache helicopters stationed there and several hundred American troops there.

So, if you've got ISIS within eight miles of the airport that's a threat if they are within mortar range, within artillery range and they have all of that equipment, so it depends on what they want to do. It looks like they are trying to encircle the city. I think it would be very difficult for them to go into the city as Ben was saying. It's mostly a Shia city. There are Sunni pockets in there. But that's where they've got the bulk of the Iraqi army now so it would be very difficult for them to do that, but they are consolidating their gains in the Euphrates Valley in Anbar province. That's where they are focused right now.

CABRERA: Jamie, I know you have spent so much time in this region. You are in Turkey now as we've talked about, as you are watching ISIS advances and they're closer to Turkey at border of Syria. Back in June when you talk about ISIS in Iraq and how it was advancing in that country you wrote that ISIS will not succeed in taking Baghdad. Do you still believe that?

JAMIE DETTMER, THE DAILY BEAST: Yes, I do. For very much the same reasons. It's mainly a Shia city. This organization in some ways strikes us as illogical particularly in treatment of its prisoners like James Foley but in other ways, they are a very logical organization and what they are doing is widening out that caliphate which they are trying to create. I don't think that they have the means to take Baghdad, but I do think what I wrote in June is that they would start a very serious bombing campaign which they've done, what, 30, 40 dead today in another suicide bombing to keep the Iraqi government off kilter to carry on undermining the authority of the Iraqi government and to continue to have Sunni tribes align with them because they think they're aligned with the potential victor in all of this.

CABRERA: Colonel Francona, when you look at all of these air strikes that the U.S. has been doing now in Iraq for a couple of months, couple of weeks now in Syria, and yet ISIS continues to advance, are air strikes doing anything?

FRANCONA: Surprising. The resilience that ISIS has shown. When we first started the air strikes it blunted their offensive in Iraq, it's slowed them down almost stopped them, and we were hoping that the Iraqi army would then regain the offensive and go back and start retaking that territory and we've been very frustrated of seeing the Iraqi army is incapable of doing even that. I talked to an Iraqi official the other day and he said the Iraqi command structure has basically evaporated. So, the air alone has not been able to stop these guys. So that's what's driving the Anbar sheikhs to ask for American forces --

CABRERA: Right.

FRANCONA: -- because they know that will work. So we're beginning to see the Sunnis in Anbar at least start to say, listen, we're not interested in ISIS coming here. We need help from the outside.

CABRERA: We keep hearing boots on the ground, boots on ground.

FRANCONA: This is called mission creep.

CABRERA: Mission creep. Jamie, real fast, before we let you go, since you're in Turkey, are you hearing any more information from the Turkish government about the potential then putting boots on the ground there to fight ISIS in Syria and defend their border?

DETTMER: Well, as I said earlier they are not in a convincing posture for either defense or offense. I don't think they think ISIS is coming here, one very good reason. That Turkey is a logistical basis for ISIS. This is where the foreign fighters are coming through. This is where most of the oil smuggling is going through where they are selling that oil and the major source of revenue for them. They're going to control if they take Kobani about 100 kilometers of this border. They are getting people through very easily, the last thing they want to do is disturb that and the boots on the ground stuff from the Turks, but they're only going to do something if there are U.S. boots on the ground and if the U.S. agrees to spearhead a campaign to topple Assad. That is the Turkish president's policy. So, all this talk of, you know, boots on the ground leaves me a little bewildered.

FRANCONA: Yes. I agree. It's probably not going to happen so we're not going to see the Turks engage anytime soon.

CABRERA: So, they are just going to roll over here?

FRANCONA: They will sit just there and watch until they feel that their national interests are served by jumping into this. Right now they need a commitment from the United States to overthrow Assad, we're not willing to give them that. They want a no fly zone. They were not willing to do that. So, they're going to sit there and wait on their border until ISIS is a threat to them. And right now, pushing Kurds out of Turkey is not a threat to Turkey.

CABRERA: All right. Colonel Rick Francona. Jamie, go ahead, one last thought.

DETTMER: All right. So, we hear from Washington that this is not a strategic importance Kobani, it is a huge strategic importance because if Kobani falls, it could well reignite the 30-year Kurdish insurgency in Turkey which would have the Turks completely looking the other way to the Kurdish problem and not the problem in Syria.

CABRERA: It is such a complicated situation we all know. Jamie Dettmer, Colonel Rick Francona, thank you so much.

DETTMER: Thanks a lot.

CABRERA: The other big crisis unfolding right now. Airports ramping up the fight to stop Ebola from entering the United States and spreading across the world. How will they tell infected air passengers from the healthy ones at least here on American soil? That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: New details now on the Spanish nurse hospitalized with Ebola on the phone now from Madrid CNN's Isa Suarez. Isa, what are we learning about her treatment?

ISA SUAREZ, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, good afternoon, Ana. Yes, we've heard in the last couple of hours or so that we know that she -- hospital sources, in fact, acknowledge of this case tell us is she serious but stable. We're also hearing that she's conscious, she's no longer breathing with a breathing apparatus and she's talking to a doctor.

Now, the same hospital sources that know her case very well have told CNN that she is on Favipiravir, a generic name also known as Avigan. Now, Avigan is made Ana by Fujifilm Corp, a Japanese company and we know from sources for CNN that they have shipped a lot of this drug to Spain, Norway, France, and Germany. Now, what I can tell you about Avigan is that we don't know, it haven't been tested if it works on Ebola. Now, in clinical trials it had worked against influenza but it wasn't designed to fight Ebola. It is an anti-viral.

Separate sources within the hospital telling CNN she could, in fact, Teresa, could be on a combination of drugs. When I spoke to the spokesman of the new committee that's being set up in Spain to deal with this, I said to him, beside Avigan what possibly could we be talking about and he wasn't able to tell me what it is but one name he floated around is something called ZMAB (ph), maybe our viewers confuses Zmapp, it's ZMAB.

And that is a component of the ZMapp and he told me, the spokesperson, that it's available in Spain but he would not be able to confirm if she's on that specifically. What we do know is a French nurse who worked if you remember in Liberia and he was repatriated to -- for treatment also received a combination of Avigan and another unapproved drug. So, at the moment all we can tell you is that Teresa Romero is on Avigan, she's also on IV drip with antibodies of Ebola survivors and possibly on a combination of another drug, the one being float, being ZMAB -- Ana.

CABRERA: OK. And she said that she is serious but stable, that sounds at least encouraging given the fact that we have heard that late in the week, her condition was worsening. So, stability is a good thing here. I understand there's another nurse who has just tested negative. I know there are a number of people who are being observed who had contact with Teresa Romero. What can you tell us about what is next for that other nurse who had the negative test?

SUAREZ: This is without a doubt one of the most positive news coming out of Spain today, Ana. And this nurse, if you remember, we have 17 people under observation. Seventeen people being monitored and the majority of these people, people that had contact with Teresa in some sort of way. And the nurse, in fact, that has got the second negative test was one that was under observation, but under investigation as well. She's the only one that really stood out and really authorities were worried about. Because she's a nurse, she's part of a team of 30 who looked after two missionaries who died here in Spain and so they're obviously relieved authorities here, relieved that this nurse who was under investigation they feared could possibly have Ebola had been tested negative twice. But she remains in quarantine until October the 16th to be sure.

But in the meantime, 17 people remain under observation and just to be clear for our viewers the majority of these people, all of these people with the exception of Teresa do not have any symptoms, do not have Ebola, they basically came in under their own free will, because they preferred to be in a controlled environment and rather than being at home and risking it anything if they may have it to their family and the children -- Ana.

CABRERA: Taking extra precautions. Isa Suarez, thank you so much.

Now, people flying here into the U.S. from West Africa can expect they'll be taken aside once they arrive and be given a preliminary screen of sorts for the Ebola virus.

CNN's Alison Kosik explains how this will be done. Alison.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Additional screening for Ebola began at JFK International Airport. It means that any passenger coming from the Ebola hot zones, Sierra Leon, Liberia, Guinea, once they get here to the airport, they will be screened to see if they have symptoms of the virus. The idea is to stop anyone who is showing symptoms, stop them before they leave the airport and get into the general population. So here's what will happen once the passengers get off the plane. They'll be taken to a designated area where their temperatures will be taken. They'll be asked questions about where they've traveled. They'll also be asked if they've had any contact with anyone sick with Ebola. If given the all-clear they'll be asked to give their contact information and monitor their temperatures with a log for the next 21 days. If there are any red flags, the passengers will go to a quarantined area for further evaluation. But even as this new screening begins even the CDC acknowledges it's not foolproof.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MARTIN CETRON, CDC INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST: No matter how many of these procedures are put into place, we can't get the risk to zero. That will not be the case. But this additional layer should add a measure of security and assurance to the American public. This entry screening procedure, for example, would not necessarily have caught the patient in Dallas as indicated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSIK: The screening here at JFK International Airport is considered a pilot and will be rolled out to four other airports on Thursday. Those airports include Dulles International Airport, O'Hare International, Newark, and Hartsfield-Jackson International in Atlanta.

Alison Kosik, CNN, New York.

CABRERA: Thanks, Alison. A news crew agreed to a voluntary isolation order to watch for Ebola symptoms, again that crew here in the U.S. This comes after a member of their team was infected. But they're under a mandatory quarantine now and accused of violating the first order. What happened? We've got it coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CABRERA: An NBC News crew is in mandatory quarantine now after one of its members violated a voluntary isolation order. This is that team that was covering the Ebola crisis in Liberia when this cameraman seen here came down with the virus, he is the guy currently being treated at a hospital in Nebraska. After arriving back here in the U.S., NBC said each member of that team voluntary agreed to stay home, avoid other people and then monitor their temperature.

Well, yesterday, the New Jersey health department slapped everybody on that team with a mandatory isolation order after one person failed to abide by their initial agreement. The network today released this statement saying, quote, "We cannot comment on any individual case due to privacy concerns. Upon returning from Liberia our team was deemed to be a low risk and agreed to follow guidelines set by local health authorities. We fully support those guidelines and continue to expect that they be followed. All of our team are all well with normal temperatures which they check multiple times a day and they are also in daily contact with local health officials.

So, let's bring in senior media correspondent Brian Stelter, host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES." Brian, good to see you.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: You, too.

CABRERA: So, these people presumably understood the risk they were there coving it, of course, and they knew they needed to be in this isolation for 21 days to monitor their symptoms and everything. So if they don't follow the order, what's the public to think?

STELTER: This is a very weird one because the person that seems to have violated the order is Dr. Nancy Snyderman who is their chief medical correspondent. She's the one that's been educating viewers on NBC about the risks for Ebola. But a couple of days ago a local news website near where she lives in New Jersey said lots of people had seen her out and about -- not lot, several people had seen her out and about. They described one case where she stayed in the car while someone was picking up food for her. So, it wasn't as if she was walking down Main Street or something but she was out of the house and that did prompt some concerns and it got attention of course and it caused the state of New Jersey to come out with this ruling last night. What's interesting about that NBC statement is they say, we expect this to continue. It's almost like they are, you know, they are trying to send a message to their own crew.

CABRERA: Right.

STELTER: But they also won't address the specific concerns about Dr. Nancy because they say that's about privacy. And you have to feel for all the members of this crew because of the situation they're in at a time of some might say hysteria about Ebola. Imagine if they have friends or family members who are also being, you know, judged or ostracized in their community. You can imagine, you know, a situation where a cameraman comes home from Liberia and then his kids go to school, maybe the other kids at the school are nervous to be around their son or daughter. I'm just thinking out loud here about the implications of what happens when you come home from your work as a journalist. You come back to the U.S. and you have to be self-imposed quarantine.

CABRERA: This is such a serious situation when you think of the potential consequences. I mean, we are seeing doctors who know the protocols and yet get infected with Ebola and they know how to protect themselves.

STELTER: Yes. And these are not the only journalists who have come home and decided to self-quarantine. I interviewed one on "RELIABLE SOURCES" last weekend from "The Washington Post" who came home via skype because he was assigned to stay at home, doing some of the same things the NBC's crew is doing, checking their temperatures, they're in-touch with local authorities. This case is briefly important because that NBC cameraman came down with Ebola, he's in Nebraska, and the latest update he seems to be doing better, it seems to be reason for optimism about his case in Nebraska. It's good the rest of the crew has not shown any symptoms but it is mystifying about why there was some violation of this order that we caused the state of New Jersey to come out and make it mandatory.

CABRERA: And especially by Dr. Nancy Snyderman of all people.

STELTER: I wish she would come on via skype, I've been surprised she hasn't been coming on NBC, talking about what's going on. So, maybe she'll do that in the days to come.

CABRERA: All right. Brian Stelter.

STELTER: Thanks.

CABRERA: Thanks for the insight.

Well, the first line of defense against Ebola will be at the airport. Can the CDC stop anyone who is infected from spreading the virus? And will this plan work or is the agency being too optimistic about its chances? That's next.

But first, each week we are shining a spotlight on the top ten CNN heroes of 2014 as you vote for the one who inspires you. We want you to meet Ned Norton and see if he'll get your vote.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NED NORTON, CNN HERO: When I'm running, I feel limitless. Being in motion makes me feel free.

When you are really pushing yourself, that's when you really feel alive. But there are millions of people around the world that are facing severe physical limitations. They can`t be independent, they can`t live their lives. I spent years training Olympic athletes, football players, body builders.

One day, a young guy, Nuli (ph), spinal cord injured, came to the gym asking for help. At first, I didn't know what to do, but we just worked together. He made tremendous progress.

Take a breath! Reach up! Reach up! Bring it back!

Before you knew it, my phone ran off the hook. With people asking for help .

Bring it up.

So, I opened a gym designed to fit their needs.

Now you go to work?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

NORTON: For the past 25 years, I`ve provided strength and conditioning training for people with disabilities.

Stretch up! Nice job.

People come to me when they are at their lowest.

Up! Up! Up! Hold it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel much better now!

NORTON: You come to the gym and all of a sudden, you have a natural support network.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 1971, I broke my back and I`ve been in the wheelchair ever since.

NORTON: That's it, Tom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks to Ned, I keep my upper body's strength at a maximum. I've been able to live a full life.

NORTON: I never worry about what they can't do. I worry about what they can do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can go right now.

NORTON: Yes, you can. Good job.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did up the ten!

NORTON: I'm building them up, building them stronger, so they can - and live life like they are supposed to.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Traveling through some U.S. airports may be a little more complicated in the coming weeks. Health screenings to help prevent the spread of Ebola began today for some travelers to New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport. And screenings in Atlanta, Newark, Chicago, And Washington Dulles airports begin next week but an official with the CDC warns that nothing can, quote, "get the risk to zero."

I'm joined by Juliette Kayyem, a CNN national security analyst and former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security in Boston.

Juliette, do you think the airport screenings will work?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, FMR. U.S. ASST. SECY. FOR HOMELAND SECURITY: They won't work foolproof and no one should think that that is the case. Look, only a couple hundred people come from these Western African countries a day. And we have 1.7 million people in the air on any given day. The sheer numbers are not going to have a great impact on stopping the threat.

What it could pick up, of course, is someone who begins to display symptoms over the course of a flight or someone who may have been ignored leaving an African country but that's a very small percentage of the risk that we're facing worldwide right now.

CABRERA: There is some encouraging news; Nigeria we now know is apparently Ebola free even though the neighboring countries appear to be under the virus's grip.

Can the U.S., do you think, learn something from the efforts in Nigeria?

KAYYEM: Absolutely. This is where people sort of need to calm their nerves about what's going on here. We have a very strong public health system. It's not ideal as we've seen in the past, but compared to the countries most impacted, we are strong. We have good surveillance. Good sharing of information. Good patient care and that's similar to Nigeria.

Also what Nigeria did was a very aggressive attack on Patient Zero and that's what we've done in this country.

Once someone is found, the sort of circle of people who might have been exposed is identified very quickly, so Nigeria's a very optimistic case based both on their infrastructure but also the surveillance. And it's something that I think models what will likely happen in the United States.

There might be more cases here. They will be identified very quickly. People will be treated. Some could die.

But it's definitely not going to reach the stages that we've seen in countries that have no infrastructure, no sharing of information, and no -- no medical health care system.

I hope you're right, Juliette Kayyem, thank you so much for your insight.

Let me turn my attention to dr. Andrew Katz, an anesthesiologist in Atlanta. Dr. Katz, what do you think or make of these airport screenings? We know that people like Thomas Duncan went through screenings in Liberia. He didn't have fevers when his temperatures were taken and apparently on the questionnaire he still slipped through regardless if he answered truthfully on that questionnaire,

So how effective can the screenings really be?

DR. ANDREW KATZ, ANESTHEST: I think it's not a bad idea in some respects and it may pick up a couple cases and prevent some seeding of Ebola infection here in the U.S.

But in general I think in many areas it's distracting and it's distracting from what really needs to happen to stop this outbreak and to protect the United States and protect the world against a potentially very, very severe Ebola outbreak that could at some point go global.

What needs to happen is we need to concentrate our efforts in West Africa and focus on giving the governments there support that they need to fight this infection.

CABRERA: You mentioned the potential of the CDC is estimating upwards of 1.4 million people could have this virus by January if something isn't done to get it under control because of how quickly it's spreading.

So do you think officials are perhaps being too optimistic about being able to combat the spread of this virus? You know, after all we're seeing health care professionals who know how to protect themselves still end up getting infected.

KATZ: That's right. It seems to be, you know, fairly easy to become infected if you're not extremely, extremely careful. It's very easy to have a breach in your protective equipment and get infected and that's extremely concerning.

If things continue, if the rate of growth of the virus continues at its current exponential rate, there could well be over a million people infected by 2015.

And if that happens it's going to be exceedingly difficult to continue to contain the virus within West Africa. And I'm somewhat concerned about the virus coming to the United States and to Europe, but I'm even more concerned about the virus reaching areas where you don't have good sanitation, developing countries, highly densely populated areas.

I mean, imagine if the virus reached Delhi or Cairo or Manila or Rio de Janeiro, the results would be devastating and that's, in my opinion, the most pressing concern.

CABRERA: And that gives us reason for the urgency for the world to act. Dr. Andrew Katz, thank you for your time. We appreciate it.

KATZ: Thank you.

CABRERA: Now Ferguson, Missouri, is becoming a rallying cry for people angry with police and this weekend protesters had declared a weekend of resistance.

Will it fade from the headlines or are we seeing the emergence of a major epicenter for civil rights in America?

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: The chaos in recent weeks, even recent days, has finally turned to calm. Protesters marched from Ferguson to St. Louis, Missouri, still demanding justice but without the violence.

In both cities scenes of deadly police shootings, but today's demonstrations were peaceful and they're part of what organizers label a weekend of resistance calling for police restraint but also for the officer who killed unarmed teenager Michael Brown to be prosecuted.

Compare today to this, violence exploded in St. Louis Friday night after another deadly shooting involving a white officer and a black victim. But this time police insist that the man they killed was armed and shot first.

So could Ferguson soon become a new symbol for American civil rights like, say, Selma or Montgomery?

Let's bring in two experts to discuss this.

With me is CNN commentator Marc Lamont Hill and, joining us from St. Louis, Kevin Jackson, author of the book, "The Big Black Lie."

Marc, let's start with you, will Ferguson ever belong in the same sentence as places as Selma or Montgomery?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN COMMENTATOR: Well, it's too early to say but there are certain similarities. It reminds me of Emmett Till, who gets killed August 28th, 1955, it starts that civil rights movement that leads to August 20th, 1963, when you see the March on Washington.

Similarly this could be a turning point. We thought Trayvon could have been a turning point. This may be a turning point. The key is not whether or not we march it's what happens after the march, what kind of organizing happens, what kind of structural change happens, what kind of police response do we see.

CABRERA: And the marching is going on and on and on.

HILL: Oh, yes.

CABRERA: In fact, Kevin, I know you are there in St. Louis right now. I guess, has Ferguson, though, perhaps missed its moment, given violence that's come with the marching here?

Is violence undermining the message?

KEVIN JACKSON, AUTHOR: Well, it's undermining the message but it's also -- it isn't even part of the message if Marc believes that this is going to -- has the potential to rise to that level, it's a shame, because to put Michael Brown and Martin Luther King Jr. in the same sentence is a disservice to the memory of Dr. Martin Luther King, who believed in nonviolence and had a legitimate reason for marching against the oppression that was happening at the time.

We've got essentially a group of people who are essentially making a situation here that -- are there situations where cops are shooting innocent people? Sure. But to rise it to the level that it is where we've got these marches and the thing that just happened earlier today is patently ridiculous.

If we want to deal with this, we need to deal with the topic honestly. Let's talk to the cops and understand their particular situation.

I talked -- my wife talked earlier to one of the police chiefs here and one of the things that he reminded us is when they take off their uniform, they become citizens as well, subject to the same laws that we are.

But all of things going on currently right here are really more of a situation where it's being politicized. The number of people that I've seen that are not even from here that have nothing to do with this, that aren't -- don't even understand the cause has been -- it blows my mind, to be honest.

HILL: I would push back. One correction to what Kevin said. I never compared Michael Brown to Martin Luther King. I compared him to Trayvon Martin and Emmett Till, because they were all young black men who were killed outside, and the critique was not only were they killed but there was a level of state corroboration with that. That's the conversation, not King.

And Michael Brown's, the second point, yes, people are coming in from all over the world. Again in 1963 with Dr. Martin Luther King, everyone at the March on Washington wasn't from Washington, D.C.; most were not.

Dr. King said when dogs bite us in Birmingham, we bleed everywhere. Dr. King always called for mass international action, as did other civil rights leaders of the day. And so right now you are seeing the same thing.

I spent 10 days down there and talked to people on the ground protesting and talked to people from there and those who were not, and they weren't just protesting the kid who got shot, although they were finding that troublesome. They were also protesting the structure of violence. They were protesting police militarism.

They were also protesting their own internal critiques. They were saying we need to vote to get people out. They were saying we need to do better as well. So I saw individual responsibility and state correction and mass action. I thought it was a very good moment.

CABRERA: All right, both of you, stay with me.

I know you have more to say as well, Kevin. We'll be back with you after this break.

Has President Obama's time in office been a success or a failure? Polls suggest the majority of Americans give him an F. Is it too soon to even ask that question? That's also ahead.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: ISIS, the Middle East, Ebola, midterm elections, Ukraine, the Secret Service. This list just goes on and on. Issues on President Obama's plate that he will no doubt be remembered for.

But does America consider Obama's presidency a failure? Apparently so.

In a recent "Investor's Business Daily" TIPP poll, 53 percent of adults in the United States now characterize Obama's presidency as a failure, while 41 percent chalk it up as a success.

Let me bring back CNN commentator Marc Lamont Hill and Kevin Jackson, author of the book "The Big Black Lie."

Kevin, let's start with you since Marc had the last word in the last segment.

Are we too harsh, do you think, on Obama or is it time to hold his feet to the fire?

JACKSON: No, I think it's long overdue.

And I want to go back real quickly and comment about what was happening here in St. Louis, and the comment Marc made before the break. The people who are coming to this are actually being paid to come to this. That's the difference between the movement with Dr. Martin Luther King.

And one of the things you notice here is the people don't really understand who is in charge.

We've got a situation where Barack Obama and Eric Holder and Jeh Johnson are the three top law enforcement officers in the country. And we're dealing with an idea that the government is being oppressive to black kids. So that's number one.

(CROSSTALK)

When you throw in ISIS and all of the other things that you're talking -- Marc, you finished the last segment. Let me finish this.

When you throw in ISIS and all of the --

HILL: There's a delay, I'm not cutting you off.

JACKSON: -- some of the other controversies, and you look at the polling of Barack Obama and then you look at that and how it's filtering down into the black community, you see, yes, those poll numbers are going to reflect his presidency.

HILL: Yes. CABRERA: Let me give you a chance to respond.

HILL: Again, I would love to know the source of the information that says all the people are being paid. I personally helped organize people on buses to Ferguson, more than 3,000 people, not one was given a dollar. Maybe 10,000 people who were down there --

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: You would be wrong, because I talked to people who were paid.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: I'm not saying no one was paid. I think in all marches people are paid, including 1963, if you check the history books.

But what I'm saying is to suggest most people down there were paid is simply not true. And because you have an anecdote, doesn't make it true.

To the other point about President Obama, I happen to agree that President Obama's feet need to be held to the fire. I've never been someone who didn't do that.

In 2008, I wrote a piece called "Not My Brand of Hope" where I was critical of President Obama's candidacy even before he became president. I still remain skeptical of it. I think if I were giving him a grade right now, I would give him a C minus. That's me. I've been operating from the Left.

I think though that much of what you see from the poll numbers, they're actually proxy opinions of other polls. In other words, when Obama's numbers are high, that poll goes high. When Obama's numbers are low, that goes low. And that correlates to the economy.

So I think until you get some real distance from Obama's presidency, we won't really know what history has to say. But he certainly deserves critique on ISIS, on the economy, on Gaza -- going down the list of stuff, including Ebola.

CABRERA: And on one of the points that you mentioned, I want to read something from Nobel Prize winning economist, Paul Krugman.

He says, quote, "More important, however, polls or even elections are not the measure of a president. High office shouldn't be on putting points on the electoral score board. It should be about changing the country for the better.

"Has Obama done that? Do his achievements look likely to endure? The answer to both questions is yes."

So Marc, do you think Krugman might be right?

HILL: There are some enduring successes of Obama's presidency; health care is one of them. LGBT issues in the Army and writ more broadly in terms of marriage equality as another one.

The question isn't just will his legacy last. The question is do we like the legacy? Reagan's legacy lasted. Kevin might say Reagan's legacy was awesome; I might say it wasn't. But it's not just about whether the legacy lasts, it's whether the legacy was good.

I happen to think there are some major standout victories for Obama, but a lot of messiness with Wall Street, with the free market, with schools, with continuing the Bush doctrine that I think make President Obama's presidency somewhat shaky.

CABRERA: Kevin, are polls and elections the wrong way to judge a president?

Are we shortsighted to focus on them?

JACKSON: I think the polls are a bad way to judge. I think that it is going to be -- to Marc's point, it will be done in the annals of history.

But when you look in the annals of history and you look at the race relations in the country and the financial situation that's occurring now, and you look at the policies of ObamaCare, at some of the things that he's identified, I think that it's not going to reflect very well on Barack Obama.

When you -- you know, look, we've got -- the United States has been downgraded and our -- with the -- the agency that actually does that sort of thing.

And I mean, everywhere we look -- and it's unfortunate, and I hate to say this. But when you look at all of the various indicators, there is not much that people are going to look at and say, oh, the economy improved.

And I think the biggest part is that the government now cannot be trusted. People are looking at the government and saying things like, you know, I don't believe the unemployment numbers. I don't believe the various numbers coming out of who is --

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: We never trusted in the government before.

Was there this moment that people were trusting the government that I somehow missed?

I think people have always had a healthy skepticism of government. I think numbers have always been bad. As far as the economy, the economy's recovering. We've had 55 months of steady job creation. Obama inherited a bad economy.

Again, I'm not here to suggest that Obama didn't make mistakes with the economy, I think particularly when it comes to Wall Street, he made some mistakes. When it comes to foreclosures, made some mistakes. I'm not an Obama apologist. However, I do think it's too early to make those types of criticisms.

CABRERA: I hate to do this to you, Kevin. I've been nothing by not giving you --

JACKSON: I know, you got to cut me short. But that's all right.

CABRERA: Thank you, Kevin Jackson, for joining me, also Marc Lamont Hill. We do appreciate both your opinions and your thoughts on all this.

Now here's a scary question for Iraq's capital.

How much danger is Baghdad in if militants are just eight miles from your house? Would you feel safe? More ahead.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: New this hour, U.S. Defense secretary Chuck Hagel speaking in Santiago, Chile. Now according to the Reuters news agency, Hagel says Iraqi forces are in full control of Baghdad. Hagel is speaking right now. Here what he had to say. Get the latest on the situation live from Baghdad coming up at 7:00 pm Eastern.

For now, I'm Ana Cabrera. We'll see you back here in an hour. "SMERCONISH" begins right now.