Return to Transcripts main page

Don Lemon Tonight

Ebola Fears Spreading Across the Country; Coalition Prisons in Iraq Have Become a Breeding Ground for ISIS Brutality

Aired October 13, 2014 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: 11:00 p.m. on the east coast and this is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Here's what you need to know as your holiday weekend wraps up.

Our fear of Ebola is spreading faster than the disease. And sadly, one person has died of Ebola in this country. But would you be surprised to learn that 600 times as many Americans died of falls in just one week? The Web site Business Insider crunched the numbers. So is the Ebola fear factor out of control? I'm going to ask the experts.

Also, from inmates to ISIS, how coalition prisons in Iraq turned into recruiting centers for terrorists?

And the latest lone Wolf threat. chatter that ISIS is targeting law enforcement in this country.

Plus, is this a sick prank or something far more sinister? A man climbs out of a sidewalk grate, throws a smoke bomb at diners in a Greenwich village restaurant, and disappears underground. We've got the very latest on that story.

But I want to begin this hour with America's latest Ebola patient, Dallas nurse Nina Pham who treated Thomas Eric Duncan, the first to die of Ebola in this country.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here with me now to help us go through this.

So Sanjay, what do we know about nurse Nina Pham's condition right now?

DOCTOR SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're not getting a lot of details from the hospital, and that's not that surprising. Obviously, there's patient confidentiality. We hear she is stable. We also hear, Don, as we talked about earlier, that she got a blood transfusion, and that was a blood transfusion from Dr. Kent Brantly, the American who survived Ebola. The thought being there that his blood could have the antibodies or Ebola-fighting cells in his blood that could help her. It seems to have helped people in the past and that's sort of where she stands now, Don.

LEMON: Seriously, though, let's talk about breaching protocol because we heard from Thomas Frieden that he believed there was some breach of protocol. He sort of had to backtrack on that saying, listen, I'm not blaming the nurse , you know, but sometimes with protective gear getting it off you can have these things. Explain to us about this protective gear and what happens.

GUPTA: Yes, we looked at this protective gear. We looked at the protocol. And first of all, you're absolutely right. When you say something's a breach in control, somehow it seems to be a term that assigns blame. That's, I don't think that's the way the medical establishment sort of thinks of it. It just is what it is. At some point, something didn't work the way it was supposed to.

Take a look, Don. I did this earlier to give you an idea sort of how this should work. That's chocolate sauce, not Ebola, on my gown. But that's an idea of sort of how you should take off your gown and gloves. But I show you there's a few areas where you could have breaches. For example, one of my gloves didn't come off with the gown. That's a contaminated glove now at this point and that could potentially be a problem. So it's challenging sometimes to do this perfectly, even if you're somebody who's trained.

Also, Don, just take a look at what I'm wearing. There are areas of my face, my neck that are not completely covered. And we know, Don, that even a small amount of infected bodily fluid that gets on your skin could potentially cause an infection.

So there is in part a little bit of an issue with just how good is the gear and then the question of how safe is it coming off? Doing it by yourself, for example, should you have a buddy? Should you be sprayed down? These are things we saw in West Africa but are not part of the CDC protocol here in this country.

LEMON: As you said, highly infectious but not highly contagious.

GUPTA: Exactly.

LEMON: OK. Can we talk about Nina Pham's dog, Bentley? Because there's concern from health officials. She had a dog with her. There's concern from health officials because of the Spanish nurse. Her dog was euthanized. That people may not come in who are exhibiting symptoms because they're afraid their dogs may be taken down. What do you know about this dog? What's going to happen?

GUPTA: I hear they're going to find -- first of all, I don't think there's a plan to euthanize the dog. They're trying to find a place where the dog can be kept. You know, obviously, Nina is in the hospital. So someone to take care of the dog and to monitor the dog. You know, during this time period.

It's interesting because there's been some studies that have shown that dogs can get infected with the Ebola virus but they do not become sick and they do not transmit it, seemingly transmit it to others. So they're not carriers, per se, of the Ebola virus. But I don't think there's any plans to euthanize the dog.

And Don, I think you bring up a good point. If people feel like there's a threat that their animals could be euthanized as a result of just simply seeking care, that obviously could deter that treatment in the first place.

LEMON: And finally, Dr. Gupta, NBC cameraman Ashoka Mukpo tweeted today. How encouraged should we be that he is doing better? Especially since he received the same blood Nina Pham is receiving.

GUPTA: Yes. You know, I think, you know, we know patients who get sick with Ebola, sometimes their symptoms can progress very rapidly. And we obviously saw something like that with Mr. Duncan. The fact that he has gone through a period of illness. He seems to be getting better. We know you can have ups and downs still. So, it wouldn't be entirely surprising if over the next couple of days, you heard that he was not doing as well. But overall it sounds like the trajectory is improving and that's the most important thing.

And again, this blood, you know, some of this is brand new in terms of therapies. This idea that the blood from Dr. Brantly could help him as well is quite extraordinary. It could be the way we start looking at a reliable treatment for Ebola.

LEMON: Interesting. And he said back on twitter. Feeling like I'm on the road to good health. Will be posting some thoughts this week. Endless gratitude for the good vibes. We wish him well.

Thank you, Dr. Gupta.

GUPTA: You got it. Thank you.

LEMON: Fears about Ebola are spreading across the country, but are those fears out of proportion to the risk most of us face?

Suzanne Malveaux has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): News that Nina Pham got Ebola in Dallas even though she was wearing protective gear has ratcheted up the nation's fear dramatically. The CDC's message today, don't panic.

DR. TOM FRIEDEN, CDC DIRECTOR: There's no risk of exposure to Ebola unless you go to West Africa.

MALVEAUX: Despite those reassurances, many Americans are afraid. They could be next.

ELORA GUPTA: We have visitors coming from these countries who have also been bringing it in, and it seems like the spread of the virus seems so rapid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We tend to get into a paranoia state of mind too fast.

MALVEAUX: A recent poll shows that 32 percent of Americans show they are somewhat or very worried that they or someone in their families will be exposed to the virus. Chances are those fears are unfounded. In fact, the odds of getting or dying from Ebola here in the U.S. are

minuscule compared to other more familiar tragedies. According to the national safety council -- heart disease or cancer, suicide, a car accident, gunshot wound, bee sting, dog bite or even a lightning strike. But it's what people don't know about Ebola that drives the fear factor sky high.

JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: If it's something that they feel they can't really control, then the fear factor comes in.

MALVEAUX: An extreme version of that fear even has a name.

GARDERE: The simplest way to describe hypochondriasis is a situation where a person has an exaggerated fear of getting some sort of illness or disease.

FRIEDEN: Ebola is scary. It's a deadly disease. But we know how to stop it.

MALVEAUX: While the horror of Ebola is real in three West African nations --

PETER SAM-KOKRES: I've seen Ebola. I've tested Ebola. I've seen people dying from Ebola. It's very serious.

MALVEAUX: Outbreaks like here in the U.S. have largely been depicted as scary entertainment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The greatest medical crisis of all time.

MALVEAUX: The film "Outbreak" based on a fictitious Ebola-like disease that went airborne immediately became a hit. Doctors say saturated news coverage of the disease now contributes to people's anxiety.

DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, BOARD CERTIFIED INTERNIST: What I think is causing the fear, a, we're reporting it like nobody's business, which I think is good because people are learning. But it's such a horrendous way to die and it's so scary. So right now there's no need to panic. There's no need to have that fear.

MALVEAUX: A fear that is out of whack with reality, at least for now.

Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right. I want to get my experts to react to that.

Thank you very much, Suzanne, by the way.

And joining me now is Dr. Alexander Garza of the St. Louis university college of public health and social justice. We appreciate you joining us again. And also CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem.

Juliette good to see you as well.

Dr. Garza, I understand all of that. But it was the fear in Suzanne's package, a better chance of this happening and that happening. It's the fear of the unknown. There's so much we don't know about Ebola. That's what's driving this.

DR. ALEXANDER GARZA, PROFESSOR, ST. LOUIS UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND SOCIAL JUSTICE: Yes. You're exactly right. And that was a great piece to explain a lot of that. But we see this over and over again with things that impact our society. So whether it was h1n1 from 2009, whether it was the Fukushima disaster and people were worried about radioactive clouds coming across the pacific, we see this again and again, but really it has to do with perception of risk. You know, individual risk. And these are things that people can't see, can't touch, can't feel. But yet they know some of the consequences of these things that are out there. So really it's trying to jibe those two different worlds together that really sort of drives the social amplification of it's out to get me.

LEMON: Juliette Kayyem, I wonder, though, if it has anything to do with, you know, how health officials are handling this because sometimes from the CDC, the message changes as the updates progress. Do you think the CDC is doing a good job? Do you have faith in the centers for disease control?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I do. And let's just be clear here, though. I mean, this does have a 50 percent fatality rate. So fact that people are nervous about it is pretty realistic. And I would divide the world into two groups of people. Most people who should not be that concerned about Ebola because we're not in contact with people from West Africa. And what our obligation is to the health of our society is to stay healthy, get our flu shots so that we're not the worried well. We're not the people showing up because we have a temperature of 101 thinking we have Ebola.

And then there's that discrete group, the public health officials, the emergency managers, others who might be exposed to those who have Ebola, and we've got to get them the training. We've got to get them ready because now we have people who -- public health officials who are getting Ebola and we just can't sustain a public health system if that's the case.

LEMON: Do you think that, Juliette Kayyem, that we are over estimating -- I mean, the government, the Obama administration, top health officials from the CDC, to the world health organization and on and on, and you work for the Obama administration, do you think we're overestimating our ability here in the United States to combat, deal, and stop Ebola?

KAYYEM: Well, I think we're not overestimating. I think we just have to be pretty honest with the American public. This is a disease with a high fatality rate. We have a limited number of people here in the U.S. who have it. Our systems are not foolproof. So part of what we're seeing is a layering on of protection so that, OK, we all know that airport screening's not going to work perfectly. But if you have enough different things working, maybe you can minimize the risk. Alex and I served together at the department of homeland security. We

are the last people to promise perfect security. All we can do is to, you know, fortify our public health system, educate the American public. For a threat has real but certainly not something that every mother should be worried about tonight as they put their kids to bed.

LEMON: Dr. Garza, I believe that you're a big proponent of sort of consolidating the effort here among health facilities who really deal intricately with Ebola. Moving them to four hospitals in the United States set up to handle Ebola. Do you think that nurse Pham and other patients should be moved to those hospitals? And if so, why?

GARZA: Right. So I do agree with that line of thinking, and I'll tell you why. Medicine by in-large has accepted this idea that people that specialize in care, whether it's heart care, you know, stroke care, things like that, these patients belong at these specialty centers. And we've accepted that.

Every day patients bypass community hospitals to go to trauma centers to get complex care. And so, we understand this in medicine, that specialists that do these things should really be taking care of these complex patients.

But I think it's even broader than that. These file containment centers were built with federal dollars for this specific purpose. They have the systems engineering. They have the equipment and training to take care of these people and to take care of them safely. And so, I think in order to reduce the risk to the health care provider that we should be practicing these same sorts of techniques. Let these patients get identified and stabilized at the community hospital. But then refer them on to the specialist. And what that does is it decreases the risk to the community provider and it brings those patients to the centers where they can get an optimal level of care where we can do these study drugs and learn as much as we can from treating these patients.

LEMON: Dr. Alexander Garza and Juliette Kayyem, thanks to both of you.

When we come right back, how coalition prisons in Iraq have become a breeding ground for ISIS brutality. And why some people fear things could get much, much worse.

Plus, NBC's Dr. Nancy Snyderman says sorry for violating quarantine. But does a public figure have a responsibility to take it seriously?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: ISIS fighters are on Baghdad's doorstep tonight, and there are fears the city is on the verge of falling. But as you're about to find out right now, from CNN TONIGHT original reporting, some say the most brutal terror organization of our time was born right under the noses of coalition forces in prisons in Iraq. Here's Stephanie Elam.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As ISIS wages war in Iraq, one U.S. war vet sees the brutal conflict unlike any other.

ANDREW THOMPSON, IRAQ WAR VETERAN: It is frustrating to open up, you know, stories on CNN and see pictures of those that we had in detainment.

ELAM: Andrew Thompson says he was face to face with current ISIS members when they were in U.S. custody during the Iraq war. His job was to gather intelligence on the prison population. He says despite the soldiers' best efforts the camps became a breeding ground for what we now know as ISIS.

THOMPSON: Space was of a premium, and we simply could not separate everybody. We knew that there was going to be extremists within the moderate compounds.

ELAM: The extremists, he says, were in control, spreading their radical message to anyone who would listen and intimidating those who wouldn't, beating anyone caught indulging in western pastimes.

THOMPSON: They got smart enough that they would basically find a radical volunteer to pick a fight with the detainee they passed judgment on. And then U.S. forces inadvertently helped enforce that punishment because then they were sent to solitary confinement.

ELAM: In his compound alone, Thompson says there were 4,000 detainees. Many, he says, were innocent.

THOMPSON: But that's the nature of war as well. Some of these people were in the wrong place at the wrong time. And quite frankly, they see us as the enemy.

ELAM: University of Texas professor Jeremi Suri says innocent detainees become susceptible to extremist views. A perfect scenario for current ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who spent time in U.S. custody during the Iraq war.

JEREMI SURI, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS: So he was held with large numbers of other people who as far as we can tell were not nearly as radical as he was. And we have reason to believe many of them have joined ISIS, that that's part of his network. So he used his position in prison as a means, as a soapbox.

ELAM: It's a recruiting tactic ISIS is now using on westerners. Tailoring its highly produced message to anyone in the world, including Americans who may feel disenfranchised by their own government.

Have you seen any signs of this here in Los Angeles, that this is actually happening, or has that not been an issue here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it's happening.

ELAM: That's why in addition to assisting the FBI, the Los Angeles police department has dedicated seven officers to community outreach, to meet regularly with the Muslim community to strengthen its bond. Still, the ones already lost to is are the ones that concern deputy chief Michael Downing the most.

DEP. CHIEF, MICHAEL DOWNING, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT: There are probably 100 or more Americans fighting over there today. So when they return, we're going to have the same issue.

ELAM: As for Andrew Thompson, he's speaking out now so that America's next push for democracy doesn't help create the next insurgency.

THOMPSON: It's like a football game for your favorite team that you're watching and they're losing just terribly. What can you do other than continue to watch?

ELAM: Stephanie Elam, CNN, Los Angeles.

LEMON: Stephanie, thank you very much for that. It's a frightening thought that ISIS was created in prisons. Where will they turn next?

And joining me now to discuss this is Daveed Gartenstein-Ross of the foundation for defense of Democrats and CNN's terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank, the co-author of "Agent Storm: my life inside Al-Qaeda and the CIA."

So Daveed, we started, you know, just discussing the issue here among our producers and we found one common theme among some of the people who had become radicalized here in the United States in that some of them had been to prison and when they came out of prison they seemed to be more radicalized. So are prisons ripe breeding grounds for recruiting terrorists, the recruitment of terrorist organizations?

DAVEED GARTENSTEIN-ROSS, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRATS: It certainly makes sense when you think about the prison environment. It's an environment where inherently people there are isolated from society. A lot of them are looking for an excuse or looking for a change in their lives.

I actually did research on this back in 2009 and found that despite the fact that prisons really seem to be an ideal breeding ground at that point it really hadn't metastasized in any significant way. The number of prisoners involved in plots was relatively small. And part of that at least for western prisons is that, number one, you might get people who already are under surveillance or on law enforcement radar. And secondly, there might be people who due to their criminal past are thought to not work well with an organization. But it's certainly something we should keep our eyes on.

LEMON: Paul, I see that you're nodding your head here. Is ISIS likely to recruit in U.S. prisons?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, I think there's concern there is radicalization going on in U.S. prisons. The FBI is being concerned about this for some time. There was a plot back in 2005 in Torrance, California. People radicalized, imprisoned, that the plot was thwarted. We've seen other plots in Europe.

The terrorist attack in Brussels in May of this year carried out by a French ISIS fighter. Well, this guy was radicalized in a French prison before joining the group in Syria. So real significant concern about this on both sides of the Atlantic, Don.

LEMON: Paul, I have another question for you. Today, this involves the FBI and the joint -- department of homeland security, a bulletin obtained by CNN says ISIS members are ramping up chatter on extremist forums and social media calling for acts of violence against the FBI, investigators against police officers, U.S. troops, and then at least one threat, members of the media. And today police in London arrested three men on terror-related charges. Is an attack in the west, in your belief is it inevitable?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, I think there's significant concern there could be an attack in the immediate term. The biggest concern is lone Wolf terrorism here in the United States or somewhere in the west. Three weekends ago ISIS' spokesman called for lone Wolf terrorism in the west for ISIS supporters in the United States to carry out attacks. So I think there's a lot of concern about that. But also a concern ISIS itself may orchestrate attacks, may train westerners in Syria and Iraq to come back and launch attacks. And they have about 1,000 westerners in their ranks. So it could be a significant threat from this group. But I think that might happen in perhaps three or six months if they decide to pull the trigger, Don.

LEMON: Let's talk more about recruitment and training here because Daveed, I want you to take a look at this latest ISIS propaganda. It's a video called "blood of jihad." It's showing fighters in basic training. Hollywood camera work, violent drills. I want you to watch this.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

LEMON: So Daveed, who are these propaganda videos aimed at and who are they attracting?

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: I think the videos aimed primarily at people who are already radicalized, people who are looking for some sort of action. It's trying to show them what things are like in ISIS camps or things are like on the field when you're fighting for ISIS.

LEMON: Paul, ISIS controls 80 percent of Anbar, the province to the west of Baghdad and just miles from Baghdad itself. Will they be able to take Baghdad or part of it? Some of our military analysts here have been saying they don't think that Baghdad is going to fall to is, but others have been saying it's a real possibility.

CRUICKSHANK: I don't think there's any real possibility that Baghdad is going to fall to ISIS. The Iraqi army units are just too strong there. You've also got all the Shia militia there. They're not going to allow ISIS to take over control of all of Baghdad. I don't think that's going to happen.

But I think there is a real possibility that ISIS could take control of the whole of Anbar province. They're trying to take control of two major towns there, Ramadi and Haditha. They're trying to cut those towns off from Baghdad so they can take them. If they are able to take them, then they'll have unbroken supply lines stretching right from Raqqa in Syria, their headquarters town, all the way to the edges of Baghdad. So I think there will be some concern perhaps about the airport perhaps coming under threat from is, coming under threat from ISIS artillery rounds. Obviously, that's very crucial to all this American aid coming in to the Iraqi military and American diplomats and advisers being able to get in and out of the capital, Don.

LEMON: Gentlemen, thank you very much.

A public apology tonight from NBC's medical correspondent for violating her quarantine for possible exposure to Ebola. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Mea Culpa tonight from Dr. Nancy Snyderman of NBC News for violating her Ebola quarantine. And here to talk about it is Van Jones, co-host of CNN's "crossfire," Mel Robbins, CNN commentator and legal analyst, and Marc Lamont Hill, CNN political commentator.

NBC medical correspondent Dr. Nancy Snyderman issued this statement this evening apologizing for violating the quarantine after their freelance photographer was diagnosed with Ebola. The statement was read by Brian Williams on NBC "Nightly News." Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NIGHTLY NEWS ANCHOR: We spoke with Nancy earlier today during which time she said quote "while under voluntary quarantine guidelines, which called for our team to avoid public contact for 21 days, members of our group violated those guidelines and understand that our quarantine is now mandatory until 21 days have passed. We remain healthy and our temperatures are normal. As a health professional, I know that we have no symptoms and pose no risk to the public, but I am deeply sorry for the concerns this episode caused. We are thrilled that Ashoka is getting better, and our thoughts continue to be with the thousands affected by Ebola whose stories we all went to cover."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. That's a partial statement. That's part of her statement.

Mel, as a health professional, I mean, shouldn't she know the importance of adhering to a quarantine to avert panic?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR/LEGAL ANALYST: You know, I think the line that was the most interesting, Don, was the one where she kept saying "I've taken my temperature. I don't have any symptoms. I know I'm not a risk. But I'm so sorry that I didn't follow this silly protocol. We will now." I mean, of course she should. But doctors do make lousy patients, Don.

LEMON: Was it arrogance, Van?

VAN JONES, CNN HOST, CROSSFIRE: What?

LEMON: Was it arrogance? JONES: Well, I think it was arrogant. Here's the thing. It's

interesting. It probably wasn't dangerous. But it was really stupid. In other words, if she doesn't have symptoms, I think we are learning now that you can't give these -- give the virus to other people unless you're symptomatic.

At the same time, if you are in the public eye and you are not doing what you are saying you're supposed to do, what the government expects you to do, you can add to the sense of panic. And I think it was not dangerous but it was very stupid.

LEMON: Yes. Marc, I want to move on. But he said stupid. Wow. I mean, that's pretty -- listen, I enjoyed her reporting. I have the utmost respect for her. But I mean, this was a major misstep -- Marc.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It was a bad idea. Again, it wasn't a mandatory guideline. So she didn't violate the protocol per se. But again, there's already a public panic about this stuff.

LEMON: But Marc, it sounds like-- listen, I will give you this advice, you should follow it, but that's not meant for me.

HILL: And that's the arrogance of being a doctor, right? Like I'm a medical health professional, I know I pose no threat to the world, don't worry about me, don't do as I say, do as I do. It's a bad idea. And it's probably pretty stupid.

LEMON: OK. So Marc, listen, this weekend Seven Sayreville, New Jersey high school football players were taken into custody, arrested and charged with sexual assault on younger players. I mean, this is a town that prides itself on its football team, and because of, you know, this whole hazing thing the season has been canceled. I'm wondering if it's fair to cancel the season because of the promising football players, right, and their futures. And also, they may scrap, we're hearing, this football program altogether. Is that fair, Marc?

HILL: I don't know if I'd scrap the entire football program. But I do think it's important to end the season. I do think it's important to send a very powerful message. We live in a culture that promotes rape and sexual violence in a very irresponsible and ultimately dangerous way, not just for the people involved in this case but more broadly.

You know, initially I said, you know, maybe they're going too far. Then I read actually Mel's piece on CNN.com and it persuaded me to say this is a bigger deal than even I anticipated. I happen to be fairly liberal on hazing. I understand there are moments when football teams and fraternities and schools and businesses need to have initiation rituals and some might be rougher than others. But this is nowhere near the line. This is disgusting. It's deplorable. And everyone involved should be punished.

LEMON: I mean, Van, this was clearly, as Mel wrote about it, this was clearly sodomy. JONES: Well, yes. Absolutely. Part of the thing is, well, these

kids might lose their season. A lot more has already been lost than just a season. I have two little boys. If this had happened to them, this is something these young victims are going to live with for five, ten, 20, 30 years. So a lot has already been lost.

And I think you've got to sand signal to both the people who did it and also the victims that the entire society says no, this was wrong. Otherwise, you're going to have these young people internalizing a lot of this pain and anguish and feeling like maybe what happened to them was their fault. They are OK. It's not OK. It's not their fault. The adults did the right thing here.

LEMON: Mel, so again, as I said to Marc, the superintendent at Sayreville memorial high school says that the entire football program could be scrapped. What do you think?

ROBBINS: I don't think the entire program should be scrapped. I think you need to fire the entire coaching leadership because what you're talking about is behavior in a locker room that would be more fitting of gang initiation than you'd expect of a high school football team.

And the coaches at least should have known, and if they didn't know then there's gross negligence in terms of their supervision of letting 60 high school boys be in a locker room repeatedly alone.

And you know, one thing that Van said that I just want to also say is in addition to sending a message, don, to the victims and to the community and to the people responsible for this, you also have to send a message to the kids in the locker room that said nothing. Because there were dozens and dozens allegedly of students that saw this go down not once, not twice, but allegedly four times between September 19th and September 29th and said nothing. And the --

LEMON: I've got to get to a break. How are they going to deal with this for the rest of their lives? And listen, this is --

ROBBINS: And the victims years ago.

LEMON: There's no upside to any of this. So, stick around. That will have to be the last thought on that.

Nearly 50 protesters arrested today in Ferguson, Missouri including a noted professor from Princeton University. But have Americans turned the page on Ferguson? We're going to talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The question for you, the protests in Ferguson still resonating more than two months after a police officer shot and killed Michael Brown?

Back with me now Van Jones, Mel Robbins and Marc Lamont Hill.

Now, after a weekend of resistance close to 50 people were arrested today in Ferguson, Missouri. Six for refusing to disperse, 13 for disturbing the peace. Are outsiders coming into Ferguson now to further their own agenda, and is the original message getting lost here?

HILL: I say no.

LEMON: I said Mel. But go ahead.

HILL: I'm sorry. No, no, no. Let Mel go.

ROBBINS: I agree. You know, unfortunately, normally, I come and fight with Marc every single night that we're on together, but I agree with him. I don't think the original message is getting lost. In fact, Don, I think it's getting more focused because you have less outsiders coming in and hijacking what's going on there for their own purpose.

LEMON: Van is not buying it.

ROBBINS: He's not buying it? Well, then what does van have to say about this?

LEMON: Van, why don't you buy it?

JONES: Well, first of all, certainly there are people who are there who are local and who are from other places. Here's my concern. I don't see the focus yet. The one person who can make a difference here is never talked about. That is the governor. We know that the local law enforcement seems to be not doing a good job. The local district attorney seems to be throwing the case. The grand jury doesn't have any instructions. Something's happening bad at the local level.

We have three levels of government. The federal government is there but there's only so much that they can do. What's missing is leadership from the governor. Where is Governor Nixon? If I were trying to make a difference here you would expect these protests to not be directed at local cops, who have already shown that they don't care, but should be directed at a democratic governor who's sitting there watching this whole thing collapse. And so, I think there is a lack of focus and I think there is a danger that people tune it out.

LEMON: OK. I'm glad you said that because I speak to residents in St. Louis and Ferguson all the time and here is what one texted me and says. I think to immediately say -- and this is talking about the different shootings that have been happening there and the one that happened last week with the police officer. I think to immediately say it is the same thing as Michael Brown is unfair to Michael Brown, this resident says. I wonder what Michael Brown's family thinks. They may not like the comparison, meaning to the young man who allegedly shot at the police officer. If you scream injustice within minutes of the crime knowing very little, I think you can lose the room. You're almost watering down the message where it does need to be heard." Marc Lamont Hill?

HILL: Well, first of all, that argument presumes that we had the room. You know, when Michael Brown was shot within moments, we said his hands were up and that he was unarmed. And most people doubted it. Throughout the week most people doubted it. And even now. There's a critical mass of people in Ferguson, but many people around the country still doubt it. They call him a criminal. They call him a liar. They call him violent. They hurl all of these extraordinarily uninformed comments and accusations at Michael Brown's dead body and it's troublesome. So I don't ever want to concede that.

But to the bigger point here, no, I don't think that we should necessarily assume that every act of violence against a black body is injustice. You know, sometimes it is self-defense from police. Sometimes things happen. But I think it speaks to a bigger issue here, which is that people don't trust the police. The relationship between community and police is so fragmented because of police misconduct that we don't trust --

LEMON: That is a bigger issue but one wonders if it gets lost as this resident says in all of that that you see, you know, kicking police cars. One wonders if that message gets lost, you know, in that.

HILL: I think there's a real danger here, and I'll let Mel get in but I think there's a real danger here. These cases when they are won, it's because there is a level of discipline and focus. When you look at the Oscar grant case in Oakland, there was a level of discipline and focus on the part of community folks to keep the focus on the prosecution.

LEMON: And you're saying that's not happening?

HILL: I think it's gotten very diffuse. I'm concerned.

LEMON: OK. Let's talk about Cornel West. Princeton professor Cornel West said, "I didn't come here to give a speech. I came here to go to jail." I mean, does that sort of statement have any sort of impact? I didn't come to give a speech, I came to go to jail.

HILL: I think it's a great thing. I think it's an absolute --

ROBBINS: He's exercising his constitutional rights, frankly. And I think it's also very important that people keep the issues front and center because, Don, the other thing we need to talk about is context. And the truth is we're all waiting. And what we're waiting for is some kind of word from the grand jury. And I agree with Van. Like this is to me a complete travesty the way that this prosecution has handled the particular presentation to the grand jury in terms of not taking a stance and saying we're going for an indictment. But until we hear from the grand jury everybody's sort of in limbo. And so, I think it's very important that whether it's Cornel West coming in or other people coming in to say there are real issues that we need to talk about.

LEMON: There are real issues but I have to tell you -- hang on, Van. I have to tell you that there are people who are coming there who have different agendas. There are people who are coming there to be relevant again.

HILL: I disagree.

LEMON: Come on, Marc.

JONES: Here's the thing. I want to say about cornel -- professor CORNEL WEST --

LEMON: I'm not saying that about cornel west.

JONES: There are a lot of people that were there when there were a lot of cameras. He was there and he's been there --

LEMON: That's what I'm talking about.

JONES: -- I think with -- I think professor cornel west has been there when the cameras were there and when the cameras weren't there and I respect him for that.

HILL: And I just don't want to -- and I agree with everything Van just said. But I also don't want to underestimate or understate the importance of doing some stuff when the cameras are there. I'm not talking about opportunism. I'm talking about the spectacle of the march.

The march is never what brings freedom and justice. The march is what brings spotlight to an issue and keeps the public's attention so people do the right thing and I think that's part of why this is important. For people like Cornel West to be courageous and stand in the public and get arrested to keep the spotlight on this issue. Are there opportunists out there? Yes, there were opportunists in 1963. There were opportunists at every major. That isn't the point. The point is are we keeping the issues front and center? And I think that is what is important to continue to do.

LEMON: I think we can all agree on that. Very well put.

Thank you, Marc Lamont Hill. Thank you, Mel Robbins. Thank you, Van Jones.

Up next CNN's fascinating and very personal new series "Roots: our journeys home." Tonight, a preview of my family's journey to America. What I learned was emotional and it was humbling.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: "Roots: Our Journeys Home" is a CNN series that traces our anchors' never before detailed family histories. My full story airs tomorrow night at 10:00 eastern right here on CNN. It was an extraordinary experience to trace my roots and fill in the gaps in my family tree. Of course, I am a descendant of African slaves. And with the use of genetic tools I also was able to discover more distant details about my true identity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You took an ancestry DNA test.

LEMON: Yes. OK. Here we go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here are your results, 76 percent African and 22 percent European. And then you've got 25 percent Nigeria and 22 percent Cameroon and Congo, 50 percent of your genetic makeup comes from that specific region in Africa.

LEMON: Wow.

My ancestry is deeply rooted in what is now known as the slave coast. My mom and I traveled to Ghana's Cape coast castle, the main exit point for slaves coming to the United States.

S.O.?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

LEMON: Nice meeting you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice to meet you.

LEMON: This is my mother, Catherine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, mom. Welcome.

LEMON: Why are we here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to take a tour. I'm going to take you back in time. This was constructed in around 1792. It was designed for 1,000 people.

CATHERINE, DON LEMON'S MOTHER: In here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

LEMON: Can you imagine, it being this dark?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They stayed here for about three months on average. In this darkness, yes.

LEMON: It felt like a descent into hell. I felt like that's what it's like to enter hell. I couldn't believe that people walked down that path and then walked through here and then spent months in here, if you survived.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It's indeed the most personal thing I've ever shared on national television or anywhere.

You can see Chris Cuomo's story tomorrow morning on "New Day" followed by Jake Tapper at 4:00 eastern on "the Lead." Erin Burnett at 7:00 on "OUTFRONT." And then you can see the rest of my story right here tomorrow night at 10:00 eastern. And the surprise for you, you'll get to meet my mother, live. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Each week we're spotlighting the top ten CNN heroes of 2014 as you vote for the one who inspires you the most at CNNheroes.com. This week's honoree grew up in a funeral home surrounded by death and grief, but now she helps her Baltimore community focus on life by getting past trauma. Meet Annette March Greer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Chicken nuggets, French fries, honey mustard, and a milkshake. My daddy ordered the same thing as me. That is my daddy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son's father, he was murdered. Their bond, it was just a bond that a lot of kids don't have with their father.

ANNETTE MARCH GREER, CNN HERO: I love my city. I have lived here all of my life. But people here are having crisis after crisis. I believe that the violence in this city and grief are directly connected.

UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I feel sad that somebody hurt my dad.

GREER: A child's grief can be very different from adults. They can easily lose their identity and their security, and that shift can be very dangerous.

There you go. Write your feelings. How are you feeling today?

Our program provides that safe place for a child to recover.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello. How are you doing?

GREER: Our volunteers help the children explore their feelings.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you choose red?

UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I was angry that my dad passed away.

GREER: And talk about healthy ways of coping.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get that anger out.

GREER: We teach our children that it's OK to cry.

His brother died. So he's feeling very sad.

Grief is truly a public health problem. We have got to begin to address it.

Coping is how we deal with our feelings.

We're giving families a sense of hope.

We're helping to heal wounds and bring families back together again.

(END VIDEOTAPE) LEMON: It's just one of our top ten heroes. She's one of our top ten heroes. One of whom will become CNN hero of the year and receive $100,000 to further their work. And you can vote at CNNheroes.com. All right, ten will be honored at CNN Heroes, all-star tribute, hosted by our very owned Anderson Cooper. That's on Sunday, December 7th. But only one will be named CNN Hero of the year.