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Dr. Drew

Baby Dies After Hours Alone in Crib; Polo Tycoon Charged in Deadly Crash; Animal Rights` Defendant Action in Restaurant

Aired October 13, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a millionaire charged in a deadly crash. Was he trunk or did his Bentley merely malfunction? And

he, you`ll remember, is the guy who tried to adopt his own girlfriend.

Plus, a baby girl is found dead in her crib. Her young parents are charged with neglect. Police say she was left alone for 16 hours. Let`s get

started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Good evening, everybody. I`m here with my co-host Samantha Schacher.

And coming up, a woman marches into a restaurant, launches into a monologue, there she is. Many of the diners go silent. Others chuckle.

Sam, what is this?

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Here`s the thing, Dr. Drew. That woman has a unique way of sharing her views on what people should or shouldn`t eat. In

fact, we`re going to show more of that video and we`re going to talk to her, so stay tuned.

PINSKY: I get a sense that you share some of her --

SCHACHER: I commend her at the end of the day. Yes, I don`t want to give away too much.

PINSKY: I`m not sure the panel will agree.

First up, though, I`ve got a 9-month-old infant found dead in her crib. Police say she was left alone for 16 hours. Parents had that little drink

and went to bed and the baby`s dead. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adam and Jasmine Alexander, both 21. Both charged with felony child neglect. After getting a call, police and rescue personnel

found their 9-month-old daughter Avarice seen here in a Go Fund photo, dead in her crib Sunday afternoon. Police report the Alexanders said they put

the little girl to bed Saturday night about 8:30 and didn`t check on her until Sunday afternoon, some 16 hours later.

The Alexanders apparently told investigators Avarice here on a Facebook photo also developed a breathing problem four weeks ago. After learning

the parents had not taken the 9-month-old baby to a doctor for seven months, police moved ahead with charges.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining us, Evy Poumpouras, law enforcement analyst, former Secret Service special agent, Vanessa Barnett, from Hiphollywood.com, and Loni

Coombs, attorney and author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell".

The parents, Adam and Jasmine Alexander, also have a 2-year-old daughter. They live with Adam`s grandmother. And, Sam, before you give us the -- I`m

sorry, they live with Adam`s mother, but before you give us background, show me the picture again of the mom and dad, because hat`s a really

interesting phenomena. Having worked with a lot of teen moms, the teen moms series and what not over the years, dealt with a lot of them, teen

moms, see that little dimple on her left lip there?

SCHACHER: Oh, the lip ring.

PINSKY: Almost every teen mom has that lip ring on the left side. I don`t know what that is, but every teen mom. I`m sure that there`s some that

don`t, but everyone I ever dealt with has that lip ring.

Sam, what is that?

SCHACHER: So, that`s the common denominator, Dr. Drew, the lip ring? Come on!

PINSKY: I`m just saying it`s an interesting observation. No, no.

SCHACHER: They`re 21, they`re adults. They`re old enough to fight for our country. They should be responsible enough to take care of kids.

PINSKY: Yes, yes, I agree, he was a teen mom when she had the kid and the outcome is not good here. What is the background you got for us?

SCHACHER: OK. According to the court documents, the baby was put to sleep in her crib allegedly face down sometime around 8:30 p.m. Saturday night.

We don`t know who put the infant to bed, but police say the baby`s mother came home from work sometime around 12:30 a.m., early Sunday morning, and

she and the baby`s father began drinking. Then they went to sleep.

Well, it wasn`t until 12:30 p.m., Sunday afternoon, some 16 hours later, that the couple reportedly checked on the baby. That`s when the baby was

pronounced dead by emergency personnel at 1:00 p.m. Now, the exact cause of the death is still unknown because we do not have the autopsy report

yet.

PINSKY: Here`s the bottom line: three adults living in the home, nobody checks on an infant in 16 hours?

VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: It`s absolutely disgusting. I don`t know any infant that sleeps past noon. Why aren`t these people alarmed?

Why aren`t they checking on this child to see if it`s breathing?

I have a 16-month-old. And she -- if she takes a nap longer than an hour and a half, I`m like in her face. I can`t understand anyone not checking

on a child for 16 hours.

And to think that some people are defending these people saying they`re only 21, that is absolutely insane.

They`re not children, they`re adults.

PINSKY: Is that online?

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: That`s crazy.

BARNETT: They chose to drink and they chose drinking over caring for their child. They should be in jail.

PINSKY: Investigators say the 9-month-old Avarice, by the way, I`m going to call her Avarice because that`s how it spelled. They`re not saying

Avarice, Avarice, it spelled Avarice.

She had not been -- I know, it`s crazy. She had not been to a doctor in seven months. In spite of the fact that the parents reported noticing a

breathing problem four weeks before she died.

So, Loni, my question is, could felony child neglect, which is what they`re accused of, turn into murder charges?

LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: Well, here`s the thing, for murder or manslaughter, you have to know what the cause of death is. You have to say that they

caused the death. There is some speculation it might have been a SIDS death, sudden infant death syndrome.

PINSKY: That`s probably what it is, exacerbated by the condition that they didn`t have evaluated.

COOMBS: Right, if that`s the cause of it, then they can`t be charged with the death. But they can be charged with felony child neglect, which they

have been, and that holds up to 10 years in state prison, as a maximum punishment. They can still do a lot of jail time on the child felony

neglect.

PINSKY: The day after the baby died, her mother Jasmine reportedly posted a photo of the baby to Instagram, with hashtags, I miss you, I love you.

She`s not a monster, but she also posted a link directing people to a Go Fund me site reportedly set up by the infant`s aunt to cover burial

expenses. Evy, are you buying this or not?

EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: You know, I`m not -- there`s a lot of things about this case that are disturbing to me. I know a lot of

children, they pass away suddenly. They`re SIDS.

But there`s so many things with this situation. One, how is it within a seven-month window, that child was never take to a doctor?

PINSKY: Crazy.

POUMPOURAS: Forget about having breathing problems. Then, on top of that, you have four weeks of breathing problems. Leaving the infant 16 hours in

a crib. Then, all of a sudden, how do you come up with the idea after hours, after finding out your child is dead, to go online and set up a

fund?

To me, there`s some serious -- that`s something not right here. I feel I can`t come outright and say they did this intentionally, but I think that

they did not want this child. There`s no love here. There`s no caring. There is neglect to the point where it`s like, you know what, if this child

doesn`t make it, we`re OK with it. That`s the sense I`m getting here.

So, assuming it`s SIDS, what if something was done to the child prior to. I don`t know. I want to see the autopsy. All these things together --

they don`t sit right with me at all.

PINSKY: Well, Vanessa, Evy go right to the mat with this.

There was the aunt that set up the go fund me site. The site raised over $5,000. But people began posting links about the couple`s arrest. The

aunt, with all these negative posts, who had set up this site, recently added an update statement to the site. We have edited the statement for

time. Please listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I set up this fund to give my niece a proper burial. I have not been contacted by anyone to tell me what happened to my niece.

Adam and Jasmine asked me if I could add any remaining money donated to SIDS research.

Please, do not criticize me. I have all the right intentions and I loved my niece dearly. The parents have no access to any of the donations that

have been made here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: So, Vanessa, in spite of Evy`s, what should we call it, instincts, Loni, we`ll get to you in a second, but the parents are saying SIDS.

BARNETT: I don`t believe this was a malicious death. I think it was an ignorant one. I think they drank, I think they didn`t care, I think they

went to sleep, and I think they figured their child isn`t crying, why check on her? I don`t think they set out to kill this child.

But what was disturbing to me was the simple fact that she went to Instagram. I`m not worried about the Go Fund Me account to the aunt. If

anything happened to my child, I wouldn`t be able to breathe. I wouldn`t be able to get online to find a photo to post on Instagram.

The simple fact that people revel in disasters and like to post them online is scary to me. It feels like there`s some disconnect with real-life

situations and how the stunt for the Graham, so to speak. It`s scary.

PINSKY: You all, I know, want to say something. I`m going to have -- Evy, give me a last quick thought.

POUMPOURAS: You know what, didn`t she also post something on Instagram, Dr. Drew, the mother, after the child passed away?

PINSKY: I love you, I miss you. Things like that.

POUMPOURAS: Again, these are all things that you have to stop for a moment and say, what is the mindset of this person that they`re on Instagram. And

again, you know what it is, Vanessa, it`s all these other things that led up to the death, not just the 16-hour window. I`m looking at the pattern

of behavior. I want to see what kind of parents these individuals were throughout the history of this child`s life.

PINSKY: All right. Fair enough. We`ve got to get out. Very young parents, they need help. In thousands of cases, grandparents are the ones

stepping, lots of people with the lip ring.

And later, the most tweeted story of the day, the polo playing millionaire accused of vehicular homicide. He got off once. Will he beat this rap for

good this time? We`ll see about that.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: A baby girl is found dead in her crib. Her young parents are charged with neglect. Police say she was left alone for 16 hours.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s horrible. I was standing on the porch when a lot of it went down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While worried neighbors watched from outside, inside the home, investigators questioned the Alexanders.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s always tragic for a child to die like that. So I know we`ve -- I know people who have had crib deaths. So it`s very

difficult.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some in this neighborhood are troubled, but waiting to pass judgment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s hard to believe, but, you know, you just -- we won`t know until the facts come out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: I`m back with Sam and my behavior bureau. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist and professor at Pepperdine University. Leeann Tweeden,

social commentator, host of "The Tomboys" podcast on Blog Talk Radio. And Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal."

The baby`s 21-year-old parents, whose Facebook photos you have just seen, have been charged with felony child neglect. Danine, the neighbor just

said she`s waiting to pass judgment. How about you?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I can say that I am waiting to pass judgment, but some things you don`t have to wait for. The fact of the

matter is, is that these were young parents that obviously didn`t have a lot of support outside helping them. For four months, the baby had a

breathing problem and the grandmother is in the house.

I know my mother-in-law would have called an ambulance and had the baby taken to the hospital --

PINSKY: Yes.

MANETTE: -- before she would lay there four-months without having anybody check on her.

Even if the parents were neglectful and not doing what they were supposed to be doing, where is the other level of support that young adults need

when they`re raising these kids and when they`re in these situations, when they`re obviously in over their head?

PINSKY: What are you referring to? The grandmother was supporting them, feeding them, housing them. Grandma was pretty -- she herself was working.

MANETTE: I understand that, but she wasn`t working the last four months when the baby was having breathing difficulties. And, I guess, you know, I

come from a family where both my children`s grandmothers are extremely overzealous. My kid has a runny nose and they`re wanting to call an

ambulance. So, I`m not used to, you know, a grandparent that would sit by idly for four months while the baby was having respiratory problems with

stepping in --.

PINSKY: Samantha?

(CROSSTALK)

SCHACHER: I get that, Danine, but I`m sorry, I place blame on both parents. I`m so glad the husband is arrested too. So many times we see

they only go after the mother. I`m glad both the husband and the wife are in jail.

But, I mean, 16 hours? Animals have more maternal instincts than these two. It makes me sick to think that they were watching TV, drinking, while

this poor baby was struggling for its last breath.

PINSKY: And this is allegedly, too.

MANETTE: I completely blame the parents. When you live in these communal environments, I would hope that other adults would tell up and help out.

PINSKY: I just think, Leeann, God help anyone had they left an animal in the cage for 18 hours. Then Samantha would have unleashed on them --

SCHACHER: Or both, Dr. Drew. Oh, come on.

PINSKY: I`m just saying. I`m not being critical, I`m using you to make an example that people would never do that to an animal unattended for 16

hours. A little -- an infant --

But, Leeann, have at it.

TWEEDEN: Sixteen hours, Dr. Drew, you know, I`m the mother of a 13-month- old. For the first t seven or nine months of her life -- she died when she was nine months old.

But you`re constantly with that baby. Every two to three hours the baby is awake, they`re rolling around, they`re nursing, they`re feeding, they`re

burping. There`s just so many things I can`t imagine -- and they`re parents and they`re responsible. They`re 21 years old.

They should be charged with murder, because how do you come home and not look at your baby for 16 hours? Noon is the first time you look at your

child? Sometimes my baby is crying at 5:30 in the morning and you can`t go back to bed. You have to get up, feed the baby, see to their needs.

There`s so many things wrong with this.

Not only that, that SIDS thing, we don`t know if that was right. But let me tell you, while I was pregnant, my entire pregnancy, SIDS and putting a

baby down on their back has been drilled into your head when you`re in the hospital. The nurses tell you, don`t put the baby on the stomach for the

first year of life because that could possibly happen.

So, whoever put the baby face down, that`s neglect and ignorance, too. I mean, there`s so many things that make me angry that one little innocent

baby is dead because of them.

PINSKY: Judy, when you step back and look at this, you know, everyone`s points are well taken, but it`s another piece of data about the bad

outcomes of people having children too early.

When I was 21, I don`t think I could have raised a lizard or guinea pig. I`m not kidding.

No, no, Sam, I`m not kidding. I could easily see how at 20 or 21 that you can mishandle the allocation of responsibilities, which is probably what

went down there, although Evy has deep suspensions that something really sinister happen.

But, Judy, what say you? Just another bad outcome from a teen parent.

JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s right. You know, from my viewpoint, there`s one definite thing here and one probable thing. And the definite thing is

that these parents are not educated and they needed educated because they`re too young and don`t know how to raise children.

But I think a probable issue here is that maybe there`s some substance issues, Dr. Drew, because that`s one of the criteria, one of the

definitions that go into a substance abuse diagnosis.

PINSKY: Consequences.

HO: Exactly. You go towards that substance no matter what it takes. It consumes your thoughts, so that you -- it`s at the exclusion of you even

taking care of your own baby. This is not the first time this has happened to somebody who has substance abuse.

TWEEDEN: But, Dr. Drew, we cannot let them off the hook --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: We`re just trying to understand it.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Leeann, that`s why you`re here. We`re not letting anybody off the hook, just explaining how this could happen.

Danine?

MANETTE: As much as we want them to go down for murder, though, it`s probably just not going to happen. I just came from the autopsy of a 6-

month-old. If there`s no definite cause of death like a swollen brain from shaken baby syndrome, the fact that they were drunk all night, unless it

contributed to their death and that can be shown in the autopsy, it`s not going to happen.

Felony child neglect is the best we can get going.

PINSKY: Wait a minute. Are you serious? So, there`s no sort of negligence that bleeds over to a murder of some type? Nothing?

MANETTE: It has to definitely be proven that the child`s death was related to the parent`s action. If they can`t find anything other than just the

dead baby, no broken ribs, no swollen brain, nothing like that, there`s not going to be able to get a homicide or a manslaughter charge here. It`s

going to be felony neglect.

PINSKY: All right. Felony neglect can get some pretty heavy charges, right? All right. Thank you, guys.

Up next, a tycoon on trial again. Why prosecutors are clamping down on juror`s access to social media, because they need that in hopes of making

the new conviction stick.

And later, the so-called viral vegan. What was she ranting about here? You`ll hear from her. She`s going to join us a little bit later.

We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

911: How may I help you?

GOODMAN: Yes, I just got in a wreck and -- walked over and my phone was dead and I`m on -- where I am?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors say wealthy CEO John Goodman was driving home drunk when he crashed his $200,000 Bentley into Scott Wilson`s car,

sending hit into a nearby canal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just noticed in the car in the canal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said Goodman then fled the scene, leaving Wilson to drown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When people hear about this case, all they hear is rich guy, polo, and Bentley.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His estimated net worth is more than $300 million.

911: OK. Are you still at the accident scene, sir?

GOODMAN: No, no, no. I didn`t see the other car what happened, but I --

911: OK. Well, they are looking for you guys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was not intoxicated. He was not impaired. He was not drunk.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: I`m back with Sam, Evy, Vanessa and Loni.

This is the story you tweeted about most today. That man you saw there was sentenced to 16 years in prison, but after several bizarre twists, the

judge granted him a new trial.

Sam, what happened?

SCHACHER: OK. So, with the whole mistrial, the reason was, because one of the jurors, there was misconduct. His name was Dennis Demarkey (ph) and he

actually had a self-published book that kind of documented his experiences as a juror, which revealed he failed to disclose to the court his ex-wife

had been convicted of a DUI during jury selection and he apparently did his own drinking experiment, drinking several vodka shots to see how impaired

he would get.

He did get convicted. He spent six months in jail, which is the longest sentence that you can get.

PINSKY: So, Loni, he conducted his own drinking test to see how impaired he would get. Sounds like a scientist to me. Why is that so illegal that

the whole trial has on the thrown out?

COOMBS: That is one of the main things jurors are told not to do. You`re not supposed t to go the crime scene. You`re not supposed to try to re-

enact the crime.

PINSKY: He didn`t reenact the crime. He`s just conducting a little experiment. How a vodka is going to make you feel? Could I drive a

Bentley with that many vodkas? I`m wondering.

COOMBS: Exactly. And you`re not supposed to conduct your own independent investigations to try and decide if this is right or wrong. You`re

supposed to only focus on the facts and the evidence presented in court that even else here at the same time.

What he did was so egregious that the judge not only declared a mistrial but they put the guy in jail. That rarely happens with juror misconduct.

But he wanted to set an example to say what you did was so bad that you`re going to get criminal charges and you`re going to go to jail for the

maximum time, because of what you did, besides the fact that it`s overturned the jury verdict that`s been so hard to get, take a lot of time

and money to get there.

PINSKY: Right. So, Vanessa, a retrial, that`s a good idea?

BARNETT: Absolutely not. Look, I may watch too much "Law and Order," but this just looks like rich privilege all over again. You throw more and

more money at the situation and eventually you get the outcome you want.

He probably had all kinds of detectives and secret sleuths looking, combing through each one of these juror`s backgrounds and foregrounds and whatever

grounds just to figure out how to get off, get another retrial and get the verdict he wants.

He`s disgusting. He tried to adopt his girlfriend to hide money. All he cares about is money. All he cared about was the fact that he wants to get

off. He doesn`t care about this dead kid or the fact that he walked away from the scene. He didn`t care that he was drunk at all get out. He`s

lying and wants to get off.

PINSKY: Evy, does she have a point here? Is she right, is this just a guy able to throw so much money at this that he could find something? It`s

like anything, you look for every dotted I and crossed t, you`ll find something eventually.

POUMPOURAS: I`m just surprised Vanessa watches "Law and Order", it`s supposed to be a moment, I go what?

But I think it`s two separate things, here, OK? One thing is a mistrial, the other thing is culpability as part of being part of the crime. Does he

look culpable? Absolutely. Should he be found guilty? Absolutely.

But the mistrial is correct. The Constitution says everybody is afforded due process and part of that is getting a fair trial. Because of what this

juror did, this behavior of this juror, he should be given the right to a mistrial.

PINSKY: OK, Loni, what did you do to my friend Evy?

(CROSSTALK)

COOMBS: Evy and I are like on the same wavelengths. Our antenna are so exact on these two stories.

PINSKY: I get that. I blame you, Loni, normally Evy is very suspicious.

POUMPOURAS: I am suspicious. He does look culpable. But, you know, as the Constitution says, you have to get a fair trial.

COOMBS: And this juror published a book, it was right there in writing. Everybody could see what he did.

PINSKY: Yes, Sam?

SCHACHER: This guy is a -- this oil tycoon, what did they call him? The tycoon Bentley. He is polo Bentley tycoon, whatever. I`m hearing this on

my ear, sorry.

But he`s such an entitled prick. And if you look at the evidence, you look at the fact that he had twice the amount of alcohol in his blood, you look

at the fact that he ran the red light, he smacked into this poor 23-year- old kid, leaves the scene for an hour, calls 911. Oh, my phone was dead, whoops. Meanwhile, this poor guy could have been saved, who knows? And

then he`s zero accountability.

He`s pointing fingers at everybody else and it reminds me, Dr. Drew, about Matthew Cordell, the guy, the young man who took responsibility on YouTube

for killing someone while he was drinking, under the influence of alcohol. That`s somebody that at least took accountability that at least

demonstrated remorse. And then people could have empathy for him as - as opposed to this complete jerk.

PINSKY: Go ahead, Loni. And by the way, before you talk about it, was it a reasonable strategy that he tried to give his money to his girlfriend

after adopting his girlfriend?

COOMBS: That got thrown out. Believe me, that didn`t go anywhere. And it just showed how far he was willing to go to try and protect his fortune.

PINSKY: Should that guy get back on the stand? Do you think there`s a retrial?

COOMBS: The jurors hated him. I mean he is not likable at all. And look, the first jury did the right thing, except for the one juror who did this

misconduct. They did the right thing. He was sent tensed to 16 years in prison and hopefully the exact thing will happen again without any juror

misconduct this time.

PINSKY: All right, Evy.

POUMPOURAS: You know what`s interesting, he got 16 years, and as far as the retrial goes, he can`t get more than 16. They can either give him 16

or max. And they can`t give him - or they can go less. But they can`t give him more.

PINSKY: Now, we - as we said, the one juror was sent to jail for googling, is that right? He just googled something. Another one - is that mostly

what -- I guess his little experiment? Oh, as another one, another juror, a new one, a second guy that misbehaved. All right, we`ve got more from

this wild trial coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOODMAN: I am sorry. My phone was dead. I tried to call and my phone was dead.

911: Let me ask you - you said you walked down the road. Where is your car?

GOODMAN: You know, my car I pulled out and, you know. I was at the stop sign and I stopped and pulled out in front. And I didn`t see a car.

911: Sir, what is your last - what is your name?

GOODMAN: John Goodman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I`m back with Sam and the behavior bureau. Judy, Leeann and Danine. We`re talking about John Goodman, not the actor. And by the way,

people are accusing him of being associated with the product polo. It is not the Ralph Lauren product this guy was - made his money at. He owned a

polo lounge or something, right, Sam?

SCHACHER: Yea, Dr. Drew, did you hear me in the last block get his name confused? I don`t know. I guess he`s - yeah, a polo tycoon.

PINSKY: And- like filed in the polo society .

SCHACHER: I just think he`s an entitled prick. That`s what I am .

PINSKY: He`s a businessman. He is multi-millionaire. He was involved in an accident that killed a 23-year-old man back in 2010.

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: He was eventually sentenced to 16 years in prison. Now, though, granted a new trial because of jury misconduct. And Danine, like

(INAUDIBLE) the last block, do you feel that he`s able to get the treatment he gets because he`s able to throw money at it?

MANETTE: Absolutely. I honestly think that his attorneys may be hiring people at this point to upset the jurors that are sequestered. Just

because one juror has come to court with a story about people yelling from a balcony trying to influence her decision. And she didn`t know what they

were talking about. Where do these people come from? How did they know the hotel they are staying at? I think that he`s got so much money, he`s a

billionaire, that there`s going to be a lot of things going on behind the scenes. And that they need to keep him real co-silent (ph).

PINSKY: Judy, do you agree with that? We`ve got one juror now in this new trial, already arrested for just googling on the case. How did they figure

that out?

HO: Well, Dr. Drew, here`s the thing. You know, I think that the court and the lawyers and the judge should also take some responsibility here.

Because what we know about jurors who are tempted to use social media in a bad way, is - one of the things that is most important that if the jury

gives some instructions, if the lawyers and the judge gives some instructions, that is the number one mitigating factor to them not doing

these behaviors.

PINSKY: So, hold on - I want to make sure I get what you are saying. So, you`re saying is that the judge probably is not giving them proper

instruction, at least not communicating those instructions effectively, is that right?

HO: Absolutely. They`re not being communicated effectively. Because that is the number one thing that we know in research. That actually really .

PINSKY: So, people will follow - so people will - jurors will follow their directives if they are given them clearly and thoroughly. Is that what you

are saying?

HO: Right. And there are three ways to do that. One is, you have to do it early and often. Repetition is key. And the second thing is that they

have to include a meaningful explanation about why it`s important. It`s because you`re trying to ensure the fairness of the trial and the

proceedings. And finally, you want to remind the jurors all the time of their oath and why it`s important to keep it. So, that`s part of their

oath.

PINSKY: Danine, do you agree with it? You`re sort of shaking your head a little bit.

MANETTE: No, I think some of these things are common sense, though. You know that you`re not supposed to talk with other jurors.

PINSKY: I would not know they couldn`t do it. I was in - I wouldn`t` know. I wouldn`t know that we are not allowed to google about something.

MANETTE: Right.

PINSKY: Maybe - check something during the day, like .

(CROSSTALK)

MANETTE: But that is explained early on, and you know, honestly, I think that jurors should be precluded from being able to publish books about

trials, in which they are on the jury for.

PINSKY: It`s a new topic.

MANETTE: Because I think it gives them an incentive to lie to get on the jury for high profile trials. And I think it gives them an incentive also

to make jury deliberations more exciting, so that they are booking themselves. They should be precluded from being able to .

HO: I disagree that it`s common sense, though, Danine. A lot of people who are not familiar with the legal system have no idea what they`re doing.

PINSKY: I`m here to tell you, I would have no idea. But Leeann, I want you to go at the fact that this guy waited an hour before he called 911.

TWEEDEN: You know, doctor.

PINSKY: It is very distressing.

TWEEDEN: There`s a few different things that .

PINSKY: Consciousness of guilt. Consciousness of guilt.

TWEEDEN: Yes, consciousness of guilt. But you know what I thought? Every $300 million man has lawyers at his disposal. The first thing he did - he

didn`t call 911, he called his lawyer and said what do I do? Do I talk? Do I call 911? Do I go back to my house, do I act like nothing happened?

PINSKY: So Leeann, so Leeann, so maybe he drove somewhere to get a landline and made the call so there could be no cell phone record of him

making that call until it became time.

TWEEDEN: Please. An hour later? I don`t care where you are in the country. You could be in the back with someone, and a car is going to pass

you and you`re going to find a home before an hour. Come on. Dr. Drew. There`s just so many things that are wrong here. Then his lawyers keep

trying to say, he was not drunk, he was not - he wasn`t drinking. And his blood alcohol level three or four hours after - after .

PINSKY: Yeah. They`re saying he drank after that event.

TWEEDEN: Oh, give me a break, Dr. Drew. You`re in an accident then you`re going to say, I drank (INAUDIBLE), it was on a circuit drinking before

that?

SCHACHER: Exactly. There`s proof, there`s evidence that he went to a number of different bars, with bar tabs. So the idea that he has the

entitlement exactly to think that he can just convince all the jury with his hot shot lawyers that he drank of the fact, that his phone was dead.

It`s embarrassing.

TWEEDEN: Can I say one more thing?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: One more thing. Danine, hold on, Leeann, one more thing.

TWEEDEN: When he tried to adopt his girlfriend, right?

PINSKY: Yeah.

TWEEDEN: To me, to me, I don`t know - maybe Dr. Ho can say this, but to me it seems to think maybe I`m guilty. Maybe they are going to get me, and

I`m going to go away, so I`m going to try to protect my money. That`s what I think.

PINSKY: He`s got to worry about that for sure.

TWEEDEN: Right.

PINSKY: Danine, what`s your last thought?

MANETTE: While he was doing all this drinking after the fact, this poor kid was drowning.

PINSKY: Yeah.

TWEEDEN: I know.

MANETTE: He didn`t die from the car accident. He died because his car went into the water and he drowned.

PINSKY: It just looks like .

(CROSSTALK)

MANETTE: But it`s hour, while this guy is calling his girlfriend and getting his alibi.

PINSKY: Looks bad. Looks bad.

MANETTE: And thinking about the case.

PINSKY: Next up, shouting hysteria, it looks like another person going crazy on viral videos. But what does this one really show? And it seemed

to be a systematic plan here. All right, we`ve got thoughts on that and the future of online activism when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me, everyone. (INAUDIBLE) I have a little girl. She was very abused for her entire life. How can you be laughing?

(INAUDIBLE) This is not funny. I went in there with other humans and I took her out of there. And if I hadn`t, she wouldn`t be with me right now.

Right now their (INAUDIBLE) and their milk and their bodies are on plates inside this restaurant, and that is so unfair to them. My little girl`s

name is Snow. And every time you see someone eating somebody else`s eggs, or somebody else`s body, you`re going to remember her name. Please think

of her name every time you see somebody`s body on a plate. Her name is Snow. And she just wants to live.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I`m back with Sam, Leeann, and we are now joined by reporter Tiffany Smith. Thanks for joining us. That woman`s rant makes more sense

when you realize she`s talking about a chicken.

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: We`ll talk to her in just a second. But first, Sam, tell me about the group that created this viral video and your proclivity.

SCHACHER: Oh, OK, well, listen, Dr. Drew. They support species equality, so they fight for animals the same way that they would fight for humans.

They believe in nonviolent direct action against whoever keeps animals in cages or in chains and they tell stories from the animal`s perspective in

hopes to change people`s minds and move people.

PINSKY: And you think it`s a great idea?

SCHACHER: Well, listen, Dr. Drew. I - she`s getting up there in front of a bunch of strangers. I think it`s really courageous and at the end of the

day she`s providing a voice for animals who do experience fear and pain. If you watch any of those videos behind closed doors at those factory

farms, those slaughterhouses, I think that you would absolutely commend her. I think it`s admirable.

PINSKY: Well, joining us on Skype, nodding vigorously in support of your comments, Sam, is Kelly Atlas. She`s organizer for Direct Action

Everywhere, and Kelly, you should know that Sam can`t stand mistreatment of stuffed animals, let alone biological animals.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: So she has a tender heart for this stuff.

KELLY ATLAS: Right.

PINSKY: Now, Mike, let me just be a little poetic for the sake of conversation. And I think people got a little confused when in your

presentation there, thinking you were speaking about a child. And does that dilute your message?

ATLAS: If I started talking about a chicken, people simply wouldn`t have listened. We`re in a culture that devalues chickens and doesn`t care about

what they feel or what they want. So if I said she was a chicken, people wouldn`t have listened. And I wanted to tell her story the way she .

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: You said she was a girl. And that`s just - again, you`re just being dramatic, when you say she`s a girl, right? She`s not a girl?

ATLAS: Actually, a lot of Americans in the country call their dogs and their cats our little girls and our little boys.

PINSKY: So, it`s a colloquial term for that. OK. But my thing is, that chickens there, they are domesticated animals. I mean your girl would not

survive in my backyard. I have got coyotes all over the place. You know, and in the restaurant that is our backyard, in nature would have -- it

would be difficult for this animal. So, how do we understand where you sit with this? I don`t understand.

ATLAS: So, I certainly don`t think that any violence in nature justifies us committing any violence to other animals. To other animals, of course.

(INAUDIBLE) all the time, but that doesn`t matter. The humans still are humans. We don`t think that`s OK. These animals want to live. `

PINSKY: And how do people react to these events? What`s the basic feedback you`re getting?

ATLAS: It varies. Some people like Glenn Beck and everyone here - were very hateful, as usual from them. And other people are extremely

supportive and we`re talking about how well, you`re right. If you believe in a world without prejudice, if we think that we should value everyone,

and listen to everyone`s suffering, no matter what body they come in, then that has to stop with chickens.

PINSKY: All right, Kelly, thank you for joining us. I want to get my panel into this conversation. Tiffany, you`re new to our group. Where do

you stand on all this?

TIFFANY SMITH, HOST/REPORTER: I am fully supportive of free speech. I agree that she should be able to go in and speak her mind, but this is a

private establishment from what it looks like. And so, the only thing I can really compare it to, is that you go to something like comic-con and

you see the Christian groups outside speaking and yelling fire and brimstone. And it feels a little bit like that to me. Where if I was in

that restaurant and I heard her saying that first, maybe I would be plugged in, because, you know, I think she may be talking about child labor or

something. And then she turns it into talking about a chicken. And for me, that kind of pulled me out of it. And I was just like OK, if I was in

the restaurant, I would hope that someone, a manager would have gone up and stopped the conversation from happening.

PINSKY: It`s because your rights are being violated to have a quiet meal and eat your burger. Leeann? Your thoughts?

TWEEDEN: Oh, Doctor Drew. The same thing. Look. Everybody - look, I was vegan for almost five years. So I understand that mindset. I wasn`t vegan

because I was against eating animals. I was vegan for health reasons. Now I`m not anymore. But everybody has the right to choose how they feed

themselves. And if you eat meat, I`m OK with that, too. If you are vegan, that`s fine. You know, her message is OK. She has a right to give out

that message.

PINSKY: Well, but she`s .

TWEEDEN: I don`t like the way she did it.

PINSKY: Yeah, but she`s saying she has a moral obligation to interfere with violence against any biological entity. And I`m .

TWEEDEN: Well, she - her point was annoying. The way she came across .

(LAUGHTER)

TWEEDEN: And to talk about it as if it was a girl. Because then you`re thinking, oh, my god, she`s talking about her little girl, her baby. Her

human child.

PINSKY: You feel ..

TWEEDEN: Right. You feel - So then the rest of the message goes right out of the window.

PINSKY: Next up, we are going to talk about this. Is the message getting through? I remind you, you can find us anytime on Instagram at Dr. Drew,

HLN. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATLAS: I have a little girl. She was very abused for her entire life. And their bodies are on plates inside this restaurant, and that is so

unfair to them. My little girl`s name is Snow. And every time you see someone eating somebody else`s eggs or somebody else`s body, you`re going

to remember her name.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Leeann, Tiffany and Vanessa who insisted on coming back onto this panel. Now that was just part of animal right organization.

She`s hoping that the video will go viral and will convince you not to eat meat. I`m just thinking, if she`s upset about milk, are humans not allowed

to share their milk with their babies, too? Where we draw the line?

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, it`s the conditions of the factory farms.

PINSKY: OK.

SCHACHER: The cows, where they literally are breeding the cows to have the babies, so they produce milk, and then they rip the babies away from the

mom, and then the mom is left constantly, for hours, searching for her baby, she`s in distress.

PINSKY: Again, Vanessa.

SCHACHER: So there`s some sadness there, OK?

BARNETT: Look, I get it. I can understand .

PINSKY: Vanessa, we understand cow. We have sad cows. We have got to make them happy.

BARNETT: This lady was obnoxious, she was ruining people`s meals, she was loud, she was borderline belligerent. Like it was just too much. I don`t

even do drama like that during my meals. I like a peaceful meal when I`m eating my steak.

(LAUGHTER)

BARNETT: And she went so far, and - Can we be super honest right now?

PINSKY: Oh, here we go.

BARNETT: There is no species equality. Chickens and humans aren`t on the same level. I don`t know any chicken with a mortgage, I don`t know any

chicken with a car. I don`t know any chicken that`s trying to make it day- to-day at their job. We are not equals. And so, she`s not mad about the 13 ants that she stepped on trying to get home last night, so why is she so

mad about these chickens? Let me eat in peace and if I choose to do research on your vegan lifestyle, let me do that. Don`t force it on me.

PINSKY: Tiffany, I feel like you`re on Vanessa`s camp.

SMITH: I mean I think that there`s something to be said. If she`s looking at the distress of these animals, if I`m in that restaurant, I`m distressed

while you`re telling me all of this stuff. I mean I didn`t buy anything she was saying because of the theatricality behind it. It didn`t feel

genuine to me. And I`m acute for - OK, if I`m going to tell you something, I`m going to tell you out of love. It didn`t feel like there was any love

there. And all of the people behind her, if that`s what I look like, when I - eat chicken, I`m going to keep eating chicken.

(LAUGHTER)

SMITH: Because they looked so bad.

PINSKY: And Sam, you know, there are philosophies out there about protecting life, and I kind of get that, but I don`t think she would - like

Vanessa said, would protect insects and might not protect fish and crawfish. You know what I`m saying?

SCHACHER: Well, OK, I think that everybody is looking for a reason to argue here on this, at the end of the day, if you watched the videos, that

I`m sure she`s watched, if you eye witness accounts of how these animals are grossly mistreated for our consumption before they`re killed, I think

that -- believe me, I get the idea that the people in that restaurant felt shame, I get that.

PINSKY: It`s industrialization.

SCHACHER: But you have to also put yourself in her shoes. That she`s seen so much of it that she probably feels to have a moral obligation to inform

people and it`s horrific what these animals go through.

PINSKY: Leeann, what about - what about the industrialization of meat packing and that sort of thing?

TWEEDEN: Oh, I think it could be better. And you know, I think that Dr. Tempa Grandon (ph) and we all know the movie from HBO, she`s autistic and

she`s a doctor, but she has an animal husbandry. She created this - the gates that where the cows have to walk through.

PINSKY: Yeah.

TWEEDEN: And like 80 percent of the slaughterhouses today actually use her gates because they`re more humane. They keep them from being scared, they

keep them from having that real stressful time right before they`re killed for - to go to the slaughterhouse.

PINSKY: All right. We are not - No one here is interested in animal suffering, that`s for sure, Sam.

TWEEDEN: True.

PINSKY: So, we`ve got your back.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: But we also like chicken, we like hamburgers. I`m not sure anyone is going to give up meat. And surprisingly, Ann was a vegan. I learned

that tonight.

(LAUGHTER)

TWEEDEN: Not anymore!

PINSKY: DVR us - I know that. DVR us right now. You can watch us any time. "Forensic Files" up after us and it begins right now.

END