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NSA Agent Accused of Murdering 3-Year-Old; Mom`s Morning Walk Turns Deadly; Bargain Basement Lipo Turns Deadly, Florida Wal-Mart Attack
Aired October 13, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, to Maryland. They desperately want to add to their family of three, and finally, every
parent`s dream, they get a brand-new baby boy. But tonight, that dream turns into a nightmare amid claims a high-ranking NSA -- that`s National
Security Agency -- official, AKA Daddy -- a government big -- beats his adopted toddler boy dead, saying, quote, I could never bond with him. And
here`s the kicker. Mommy`s taking Daddy`s side!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This child was unresponsive. He was essentially brain dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s where doctors say O`Callaghan`s story doesn`t add up. Injuries confirm Madoc is the victim of a fatal beating.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Madoc had a fractured skull.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The little boy, Madoc, pronounced dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to West Columbia, South Carolina. Every day, Susan Wilkes goes for a morning walk. But this time, she never comes home, Susan Wilkes last
seen wearing a pink workout outfit, white T-shirt, blue baseball cap. In the last hours, a female body found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Susan Wilkes, who was last seen around 8:15 AM near her home, vanished during her routine morning walk. Susan`s husband reportedly
says he`s grown concerned after searches have revealed no clues as to his wife`s whereabouts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And U.S. women flocking south of the border for bargain basement lipo. But tonight, that bargain not much of a bargain as bargain basement
lipo turns deadly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A young mom of one is dead after her cosmetic surgery went horribly wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Friends and family claim Beverly (ph) never made it off the operating table.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The secretary told me that she had passed (INAUDIBLE) a heart attack. And I said, How could it be? This was a young, healthy
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Florida, Walmart express lane attack, a shopper goes berserk in the checkout line?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, to Maryland. They desperately want to add to their family of three, and finally every parent`s dream, a brand-new baby, a baby
boy. But that dream turns into a nightmare amid claims tonight a high- ranking NSA -- that`s National Security Agency -- official, Daddy, a government big-wig, beats his adopted toddler boy dead and claiming he
could never bond with the boy, as if that`s some kind of a defense? And here`s the kicker. Mommy is taking Daddy`s side! I don`t understand it.
Straight out to Dan Morse, staff reporter, "Washington Post" and author of "The Yoga Store Murder." Dan, I -- I`m stunned! This guy is a government
big-wig. And the mother is standing by him in the beating death of a 3- year-old toddler?
DAN MORSE, "WASHINGTON POST" (via telephone): Yes, his family certainly seems to be standing behind him. You know, not only was he with NSA, but
the guy is fluent in Arabic and...
GRACE: Whoa-whoa! Whoa-whoa! What am I seeing, Dan? I`m seeing on screen, I guess this is pictures of the father, Brian Patrick O`Callaghan,
overseas holding a gun. I guess this is him in Afghanistan. Tell me about the father. What do we know about Brian Patrick O`Callaghan and his claims
that he could not bond with his new baby?
MORSE: Well, you know, everything up until this point -- he was -- you know, he was sort of everything. He served in Kosovo. He was in Iraq. He
was fluent in Arabic. He served as a translator. Then he got a job with the NSA. He held a lot of, you know, pretty important positions with the
NSA. He and his wife...
GRACE: What exactly is the NSA? Dan Morse joining me from "The Washington Post."
MORSE: It`s a big, you know, spy agency, the National Security Agency, where -- you know, his most recent position was he was chief of an entire
division, the Korea division. But he had served in a number of high- ranking counterintelligence, you know, counterterrorism positions.
GRACE: So this guy is the real deal as far as spies go.
MORSE: Oh, yes.
GRACE: He is an NSA -- national security -- official. He`s basically a spy. Now, bottom line, his lawyer says that he is a decorated veteran who
specializes in Korea for the National Security Agency and is incapable of such brutality. So we know the dad is a spy. How did they come to get
MORSE: So you know, what happened -- the family had a child. He`s about 6 or 7 years old when this happened. And they wanted another child, so they
adopted the child from Korea. They got him late last year. And they`d called him Madoc.
MORSE: You know, there`s a lot of Irish ancestry in this family, so they called him by an Irish name. So now they have Madoc, their other child,
and it`s the four of them. And you know, it seems like a -- you know, a dream, consistent with how great this guy`s professional life is. You
know, everything seemed great.
And then he shows up at a local hospital here with Madoc and with his other -- with his -- with his other child. At this point, his wife was out of
town. But you know, the doctors at the hospital knew something was very wrong. This little boy, Madoc, had a temperature of 86 degrees. He was
unresponsive. You know, recently in court, a prosecutor said, you know, he`s essential brain dead at that point. And that -- you know, that kicked
everything into gear.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Everybody, with me is Dan Morse with "The Washington Post." Dan, according to our investigation, the boy
had impact trauma to the child`s scrotum. That`s his genitals.
GRACE: So, what, did the father kick him in the genitals, a 3-year-old baby boy?
MORSE: Well, what they`ve said is that he was beaten. You know, the prosecutor said he was beaten -- there`s brain injuries. There`s injuries
to his front and his back. And then in court recently, they actually talked about what you`re talking about there, and they called them massive
injuries to his scrotum that were easily -- you know, it was either squeezed or impact injuries there. You know, that -- that came up in court
recently, those injuries that you`re talking about. Again, they called it massive...
GRACE: Hold on. Swelling, bleeding to the brain, front and back, bruises to the forehead, blunt impact to the back from a linear and triangular-
shaped object -- linear is long or straight -- and triangular. Any idea, Dan Morse, what this child was beaten with in addition to being attacked in
MORSE: No. They haven`t said that. But they do -- you know, they do call it -- you know, this -- you know, obviously, medical examiner speak, but
they call it homicide by multiple blunt force impact injuries.
GRACE: You know, Dan, it`s almost more than I can take in. And they went out of their way to get the baby. They went through all sorts of hoops to
adopt baby Madoc. They got the baby to add to their family. Now this.
And some BS, that`s the only word for it, of this father claiming he, quote, "couldn`t bond," he could never bond with the little boy? Don`t go
anywhere, Dan Morse.
Also with me, Maureen Flatley, adoption expert, child advocate. Maureen, you are very familiar with these allegations and this case. What do you
MAUREEN FLATLEY, ADOPTION EXPERT, CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, Nancy, I have to say that these cases of adoption-related child fatalities are escalating,
and the abuse that`s being inflicted on the kids is growing in some very troubling ways. And I think the first question I have about this case is
what kind of screening did this family get prior to the placement because I`ve never seen a single case where this behavior came out of the blue. In
every child fatality related to adoption that I`ve ever worked on, there were enormous red flags.
GRACE: You know, she`s right, Dan Morse -- Dan Morse joining me from "The Washington Post." Dan, when I first learned about this, learned about the
child dying with these injuries, I was overwhelmed with the degree of the brutality inflicted on this child.
And I think Maureen Flatley has a very good point. Because this guy is a bigwig in the U.S. government, because he`s a decorated war veteran, which
I respect that, but I don`t think that they looked into the home situation enough. And I think he really believed he could get away with this because
he`s so influential in our government at a time where he specializes in Korea and we need so much help in Korea!
What do you think, Dan? How did he get the baby?
MORSE: Well, they went through an adoption agency. And you know, they say that he was vetted. And one thing that they -- you know, his attorney
brought in court recently was that, you know, there`s no signs of this with his older sibling. You know, there`s no social services investigation of
him in the past.
You know, I can say that when the police started talking to him, you know, he talked back to the detective and he tried to explain...
GRACE: What do you mean he talked back to the detective?
MORSE: Well, I mean, he agreed to talk to them, I guess, is what I`m saying. And he tried to come up with an explanation of what had happened,
and you know, quickly (ph) didn`t really make any sense. The detectives -- he talked about the night before he came into the hospital with the child,
you know, the child slipping in the tub...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An NSA bigwig and Iraq war vet rushes his 3-year-old son unresponsive to the ER, claiming the toddler falls in the bathtub.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The injuries to the little boy O`Callaghan and his wife named Madoc allegedly included a fractured skull, which a medical examiner
claimed could not have come from a fall, as O`Callaghan told police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The injuries to this child were catastrophic injuries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back to Dan Morse from "The Washington Post." For those of you just joining us, Dan Morse is telling us that when this government
big -- he is a spy, essentially. He is a bigwig with the U.S. government with the National Security Agency.
And I`m just wondering if he is getting preferential treatment for the beating death of a 3-year-old adopted boy because of his status and his
expertise. He`s an expert in Korea? Why should this be any different from every other 3-year-old that`s beaten to death? And tonight, we are
learning impact trauma to this child`s scrotum? You know what? To the child`s genitals. A case like this can cause Korea to stop all adoptions
to the U.S., a case just like this.
Dan Morse with me, with "The Washington Post." You said he, quote, "talked back to police," or he started talking. Did I hear you say right before we
went to break he said something about the child slipping in the tub? Are you kidding me?
MORSE: Yes. Yes. I didn`t mean, you know, he -- I didn`t mean he talked back like rude, but he -- what I meant was he agreed to talk to them. You
know, he sat down and answered their questions instead of, you know, saying, Give me a lawyer. And you know, I think he probably thought he
could talk his way through this.
And you know, he talked about the day, the events that led up to him taking Madoc to the hospital, and that stuff didn`t quite add up. And then he
talked about the night before and he said, Oh, well, you know, we were in the tub. I was actually giving him a shower. You know, he said he doesn`t
like the bath so much. And he slipped. And he fell and he hit his head there in the tub. So that`s what he...
GRACE: He slipped and hit his head. Did he mention, Dan Morse, anything about his genitals getting hit in the bathtub? I bet he didn`t.
MORSE: That`s certainly not in the court record. And again, that came up in court recently, where the, you know, prosecutor described these as
massive injuries to the child`s scrotum and said they came from either impact or squeezing. And then the defense came back and...
GRACE: Oh, dear Lord in heaven! Squeezing the little boy`s genitals so hard, he had impact trauma?
Out to the lines. Joyce there in Washington. Hi, Joyce. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is that I believe that the man should be prosecuted.
GRACE: You`re darn right, Joyce! You are darn right! And my fear is because he`s all up in the government like that, he`s going to get
preferential treatment because you know, Joyce, in Washington -- you`re there. You`re amidst it. One phone call from somebody important in the
U.S. government, and this guy will walk!
Well, not if I have anything to do with it! I am talking about Brian Patrick O`Callaghan who went through hoops to adopt a child. He gets his
wish. They get baby Madoc. Suddenly, the baby dead.
No we learn -- let me see, Liz, if you can show all the injuries to this child -- injuries -- massive skull fracture, bleeding on the front and back
of the brain. Multiple blunt impact injuries, contusions, hemorrhaging, impact trauma to the boy`s scrotum.
To Dr. Joye M. Carter, chief forensic pathologist, author of "I Speak for the Dead." Dr. Carter, how can you tell if the child`s scrotum, genitals
were kicked or were squeezed so hard that it leaves impact trauma for the medical examiner to find?
DR. JOYE M. CARTER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Well, they would be doing a complete autopsy. They would definitely look at the genital
region to see how much damage is there, how much blood is in the soft tissue. And you can often tell if it has been squeezed versus impact. And
you`d be looking for patterns, maybe finger markings, how far up it goes, if it`s (INAUDIBLE) an adult hand. They`re going to be doing a very
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, David Benowitz from D.C., Peter Odom defense attorney, Atlanta. OK, Peter Odom, let`s hear your defense.
Now, remember, Peter, before you and Benowitz get tuned up, he`s already told cops voluntarily -- you can`t suppress that when it`s a voluntary
utterance, an excited utterance. He`s already told them some story about the child falling in the tub the night before, OK? So you`re stuck with
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: Let`s hear it.
ODOM: I mean, that -- the more medical evidence there is showing that it was a squeezing or some kind of abusive injury here, abusive head trauma,
the more difficult it`s going to be to say that it`s an accident. But he`s stuck with that.
Now, with these child abuse cases, it can often be difficult to distinguish between accident and intentional conduct.
GRACE: Accident and intentional conduct. David Benowitz, how could he have all these injuries by accident, skull fracture, bleeding in the front
and back of the brain? That means that, what, he falls on the front and then bounces to the back of the tub? I don`t get it. Multiple blunt
impact injuries, contusions, hemorrhaging, impact trauma to the boy`s scrotum, David Benowitz? How can that be an accident?
But that`s what you two are stuck with arguing for the defense because he`s already got himself against the wall with a statement that the boy fell in
the tub. He`s stuck with that. He can`t get out of it now.
DAVID BENOWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, this is day one of an investigation that has to begin on the defense side. If I was defending
this person, we would have our own expert go behind the medical examiner, look at the autopsy, go to the house, look at the bathtub, examine the
This father just lost his adopted child. I understand what you`re saying about him being stuck with the statement. But we don`t know what mental
condition he was in when he started talking to the police.
GRACE: A 3-year-old adopted boy from Korea gets adopted by a government official, a bigwig in the National Security Agency, and the child ends up
dead, multiple beatings, apparently even the child`s genitals squeezed so that they find impact trauma to the scrotum.
To Maureen Flatley, adoption expert, child advocate. I understand that you are concerned. Do you believe that this guy -- the NSA knows about this
guy`s record with police? You call it internal affairs.
FLATLEY: Well, you know, either they do or the military does. Keeping in mind that this guy`s had multiple deployments in the military, he`s at
extremely high risk for PTSD. And we know that there`s a strong correlation between PTSD and child abuse and child fatalities.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!
FLATLEY: Any suggestion that...
GRACE: Maureen, I can`t believe it. That makes so much sense. And I had not put that together.
Is Caryn Stark with me? Caryn Stark, post-traumatic stress disorder -- there`s a connection to a high rate of child abuse? That makes perfect
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. And you know what, Nancy? They`re saying that his expertise is with Korea. So I`m not sure what he was exposed to.
but not that we want to make excuses for him, but this is absolutely true that PTSD...
GRACE: Well, I`m not making excuses for it...
GRACE: What I`m saying is that he should never have been able to get the child to start with!
Dan Morse, "Washington Post" -- one -- you know it, Dan. You`re right there in the Beltway. I mean, the community is beautiful, gorgeous
neighborhood, gorgeous family, the works.
Where`s the wife? Why is Mommy standing by hubby? And you know, it takes one phone call from a government big to get this guy off the hook, Dan
MORSE: Well, thus far, there`s been, you know, no indication of a phone call like that. You know, they`ve got first degree murder charges against
him. They`re going forward. They`re -- you know, what`s going on is in the case right now is the autopsy hasn`t been completed, and there`s this
odd thing that happened -- I guess it`s not odd. But you know, maybe in the context of everything else, it is -- is this child`s organs were
donated. And so his organs are out there somewhere. They`re trying to track down where his organs went because that`s part of the whole autopsy
that they`re trying to put together, you know, where these...
GRACE: Whoa! Wait! They gave away the child`s organs and now we can`t look back at the organs to determine -- OK, that`s bad.
Stacey Newman, what do we know about Mommy? Give it to me in a nutshell. How can Mommy stand by and support this?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, she says this is a tragic accident. She knows that her husband would never hurt this child.
GRACE: Tragic accident.
NEWMAN: But Nancy, also not only do you have the bathtub story, he also said in the days prior to the bathtub little Madoc fell down the stairs.
So I guess they`re using that as part of the defense, as well.
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody.
And now to West Columbia, South Carolina. Every day Susan Wilkes goes for a morning walk. But this time she never comes home. Susan Wilkes last
seen wearing pink shorts, a white T-shirt, a blue baseball cap.
In the last hours a female body found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Disappeared during her daily walk in the morning. Susan Wilkes was last seen about 8:15 a.m. in a local subdivision near her
home while taking her walk.
Susan was last seen wearing a blue baseball cap, sunglasses, a white T- shirt, pink workout shorts and a pair of pink and green New Balance shoes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Harrison Cahill, reporter with "The State" there in Columbia."
Harrison, did she take the same route every time she went for a walk?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, she would generally walk around the neighborhood, not very far from home. She wouldn`t even have
much on her. Basically just some keys to get back in the house.
GRACE: OK. So was this morning any different from all the other mornings?
FREIMAN: From what her husband said it was not different. She`d gone out for the walk and hadn`t returned.
GRACE: Harrison Cahill now joining us from "The State" there in Columbia.
Harrison, thank you for being with us. Harrison, I`m --
HARRISON CAHILL, REPORTER, THE STATE: Thank you for having me.
GRACE: Sure. I`m understanding that she always took basically the same route, that she would walk around her neighborhood maybe one day she`d go
one direction, the other the reverse. But always basically the same route past all of her neighbors. They would all see her every morning.
Is that right, Harrison?
CAHILL: From what I understand yes, that is correct. The morning her husband reporting -- reported her missing, he said that maybe she took a
different route. And that they went out -- you know, would go out and check the ditches. But it was really weird. I went door-to-door, knocked
on some neighbors` doors and they often said that they never saw Nancy walking around. The only time they ever saw anybody from the family was
really the son mowing the lawn.
GRACE: OK. So was there an adult son -- the adult son lived in the home, Harrison?
CAHILL: Yes. His name was Joseph Cody Wilkes. He was 23. And from what I understand he did live in the home with his parents. He was a dish
network installer from what I understand. And usually --
GRACE: There`s the son.
Hold on, Harrison.
Harrison Cahill with me from "The State." We`re showing the son right now. That`s Joseph Cody Wilkes, age 23. Lived in the home there with the mom.
A dish installer.
OK, now, Harrison, what about the husband? What does he do?
CAHILL: From what I understand the husband didn`t do much. I know that him and Joe -- Marion was the husband. Him and Joe were employed by a few
of their friends to trim trees around the neighborhood and the community. And they were referred to a lot of different people to, you know, trim
trees around the yard. So as far as I`m concerned that`s the only thing that he was employed at.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at Susan Reynolds Wilkes. Every morning take the same route. Last seen wearing pink shorts, a blue cap and a white T-shirt.
That was her workout outfit.
OK. Harrison, a female body has been found and it`s a stab wound to the chest, correct? Has that been identified now as definitely being Susan
CAHILL: Yes, ma`am. It is definitely her.
GRACE: OK. Where was she found? Where was the body found, Harrison?
CAHILL: She was found actually 30 miles from her home on Lynett Drive in West Columbia. It was a little town called Little Mountain. And she was
GRACE: Thirty miles away? That`s no morning walk.
CAHILL: Well, not that morning. She was transported 30 miles away from her home on Lynett Drive and was buried behind a residence in Little
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing a shot of Susan Reynolds Wilkes. In the last hours a female body has been found and we`re confirming right now it
is the body of this mom.
Does she have any children other than the son Joseph Cody Wilkes?
CAHILL: Speaking with people around the neighborhood and other contacts --
GRACE: Hold on, Harris. Sorry to interrupt. She -- now we`re showing where the body was found. It`s out in a very densely wooded area. And I
can see it`s right along where they had those big wires, telephone wires and electrical wire where they cut a swath out of the forest to make way
for the wires.
GRACE: And you`re saying that the body was actually found buried?
CAHILL: Yes. We -- Marion and Joseph both buried the body behind a home that Joe actually knew the owner of that residence. They were both quite
good friends, but as I`m told so far that person who owns the residence has not had any connection to do with the murder.
GRACE: OK. So you`re telling me -- now cops have honed in on the husband, Marion Wilkes and the son Joseph Cody Wilkes. What could be their possible
CAHILL: From what I understand, Susan was laid off. I`m not sure what she did. But she was laid off. And they were having some sort of financial
crisis, as we understand it now. That seems to be the only motive. Other than that --
GRACE: So it was about money?
CAHILL: It`s not very clear.
GRACE: It was about money? .
CAHILL: It seems like it.
GRACE: OK. Unleash the lawyers.
CAHILL: I guess I shouldn`t comment that it was about money. But that seems to be --
GRACE: OK. Got it.
CAHILL: The family and something is going on.
GRACE: Peter Odom, David Benowitz. The cause of death on Susan Reynolds Wilkes, the body has now been identified, is a stab wound to the chest. So
that means if the father and the son did this thing, her own child, did this thing they would have to stab her right to her face in close
proximity, Peter Odom.
Your own mother, your wife. I just -- that takes a whole another mindset. To be that close, physically close to someone and you have the gall to stab
your own mother, wife in the chest?
ODOM: Believe it or not, Nancy, but in domestic violence cases, family violence cases, where there is a high degree of anger, that`s common.
Stabbings are much more common in domestic violence cases.
GRACE: Well, up here -- but according to police, out to you, Benowitz. The son is in on it, too. Odom is talking about domestic violence between
spouses or partners. This is a son and the dad in on it together to kill mom. Then lie about her taking a morning walk.
BENOWITZ: Right. We have no idea what happened here. We have no idea what went on between the father and the son. We have no idea what kind of
pressure was put on the son by the father. We just don`t know enough yet. There has to be an investigation by that -- those two gentlemen`s lawyers
to see what defenses may be available here.
GRACE: Justin Freiman, the defense attorneys are saying we don`t know what really happened. What do you know that the husband has said?
FREIMAN: Nancy, right after she went -- allegedly went missing the husband goes on TV and he says, oh, I don`t know. Sometimes she would go after her
morning walk out with friends and go out to a movie and do things with her friends. But the thing is there are other reports that actually say they
weren`t a very social group and she only had three or four contacts in her cell phone.
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody.
U.S. women flocking south of the border for bargain basement lipo. Well, tonight that bargain is not much of a bargain as bargain basement lipo
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 28-year-old mother of one Beverly Brignoni was excited for the future.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is nothing I can do right now to bring Beverly back and I know that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Beverly`s family says Beverly died from what they were told was a massive pulmonary embolism during a tummy tuck and
liposuction surgery at a local medical center.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Pat Lalama, investigative reporter with Investigation Discovery, you know, women are going in droves south of the border. They think they
can get a deal on tummy tucks, butt lifts, lipo, the works. What happened? Look at this girl. She should not be dead from bad lipo south of the
border. What happened?
PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY: Well, Nancy, I`ve covered so many of these kinds of cases here in L.A., but now as you
say, the Dominican Republic, they call it medical tourism. You go down there and you get a third off and the you get to rest on the beach and
But cut rate doesn`t mean cut right. She landed late in the Dominican Republic and then the very next morning, by 7:00 in the morning she was
only off the plane a few hours and that`s probably going to be important to this case. She dies on the table. The doctor refuses to talk to anybody.
Now he does have a license. But a lot of people don`t. There have been 19 cases in the last year alone of women from five states who have had serious
bacterial infections from going down there.
GRACE: OK. Now all of the 19 that you are referring to, are they all at the Dominican Republic or are they just south of the border?
LALAMA: No. Dominican Republic. Nancy --
GRACE: What`s so great about the Dominican Republic lipo?
LALAMA: Because --
GRACE: Why is lipo any better there except it`s a third off?
LALAMA: Because it`s become this haven now. People know they could -- there are places where you can stay and recover on the beach. So they get
to go and have their surgery for a third off and then they can get to stay in a nice house on the beach and tack on a few days for vacation. It is
very alluring to women who aren`t witty or not thinking smartly.
GRACE: It`s not alluring to me to have lipo.
LALAMA: Not me either.
GRACE: Had the fat sucked out of your body then go lay in the sand. That doesn`t sound at appealing to me. Now the third off, now that`s kind of
getting my attention.
To Dr. Carmen Kavali, plastic surgeon.
Pat Lalama said something very interesting, Dr. Kavali, something about her getting on a plane was very important in this case. Why?
DR. CARMEN KAVALI, PLASTIC SURGEON: It absolutely is important. Because being on a prolonged flight increases your risk of developing blood clots.
Those clots that form in your legs can then break off, go to your lung and that`s a pulmonary embolism. That`s what can kill you.
GRACE: OK. Whoa, whoa, wait.
Dr. Kavali, I`m positive everything you said was absolutely correct. But I`m just a J.D. I don`t even know what you`re talking about. Can you
dummy down a little bit for us? What did you say?
KAVALI: Sure. Sure. Most -- most people undergoing large elective cosmetic procedures are not getting fresh off a plane the night before. So
they`re not at as great of an increased risk of developing blood clots. Someone who gets off a prolonged flight is at risk of having developed
blood clots. When those clots progress as they will during general anesthesia, being asleep for surgery, parts of those clots in the legs can
break off and go to the lungs and that can kill you.
GRACE: Dr. Kavali, why is getting on a plane -- why does that cause blood clots?
KAVALI: The air pressure change and being sedentary, seated for a prolonged period of time. Both of those increase the risk of developing
GRACE: OK. But from what I understand, this woman had tummy tuck and lipo. So Pat Lalama is saying there have been 19 deaths out of Dominican
in the recent months. They weren`t all on a plane. So how does the lipo and the tummy tuck -- what does that have to do with the death?
KAVALI: Well, there were 19 microbacterial infections out of clinics in the Dominican Republic. Actually eight clinics in the Dominican Republic.
But there have been additional deaths, not necessarily related to those 19 microbacterial infections which is an unusual infection to have.
Now -- I`m sorry. Your question -- back to how does getting on a plane -- I`m so sorry. I lost your question.
GRACE: Yes, I mean, what I don`t get -- that`s OK. What I don`t get -- now hold on.
Pat Lalama, you mentioned 19 deaths of this bargain basement surgery.
LALAMA: No, no, no.
GRACE: Is it all lipo? Is it tummy tucks?
LALAMA: Not 19 --
GRACE: If people --
LALAMA: Nineteen deaths, Nancy. Not 19 deaths. 19 incidents of serious infection. And then as the doctor said, other deaths aside from that. A
handful of deaths.
The problem is that the standards are substandard down there. And the CDC and the State Department are putting out alerts to women saying be careful.
Look at who you are going to. Do the homework. Find out. And people are not doing the homework.
This is exactly what I have had to cover here in Los Angeles for years. It`s the same problem now emerging down there.
GRACE: OK. This is not the first time that there have been deaths related to plastic surgery. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Pamela Suarez went to see a woman who advertized vampire face-lifts. It`s believed she died following an injection during a
cosmetic procedure. Donda West, the mother of wrapper Kanye West, died from complications of having several surgeries. Former Miss Argentina
Solange Magnano died after elective surgery on her buttocks. First lady of Nigeria Stella Obasanj died from complications from liposuction. Olivia
Goldsmith, the author of the "First Wives Club" died from complications after cosmetic surgery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To you, Pat Lalama, in this particular clinic, is it one doctor? Was there a team? What do we know about this particular clinic she`s going
to? Why did she pick them?
LALAMA: This clinic has a very good reputation. And the one positive note is that the doctor in this case does have a license, and yes, Nancy, after
her death was reported, the local authorities went into this particular clinic and shut it down for a while because of germ issues. But now it`s
reopened and he`s back to practicing. He`s back to practicing.
GRACE: Unleash --
LALAMA: And there are no charges against him.
GRACE: You know, that brings up a really good issue.
To Dr. Joye M. Carter. Dr. Carter, having a surgery like this at a, quote, "clinic," that`s not the same as doing it at a hospital. What is the
CARTER: Well, it is not the same as being at a hospital where you have people watching and monitoring your vital signs in case something happens.
It is not the same standards employed and used in U.S. hospitals. And sometimes you go into something cheaper, you get some bad results.
This is someone who wanted to have plastic surgery. May not have been a good candidate. Had not rested up after a long trip. Did not have
clearance from surgery for her heart, for her respiratory system. It`s a bad scene all the way around.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Peter Odom, David Benowitz.
All right, first to you, Peter Odom.
GRACE: See, I think the doctor should be prosecuted.
ODOM: Why, Nancy?
GRACE: For at least manslaughter.
ODOM: Nancy, somebody died on the operating table. That happens all over this country every day with there being no negligence and no prosecution.
Why does sending someone to jail somehow the only thing that seems to satisfy you sometimes?
There`s no indication that this doctor has done anything wrong.
GRACE: OK. Did you just hear Pat Lalama say that after this death, a U.S. citizen goes down to the Dominican to get a bargain basement lipo and tummy
tuck and dies? They shut the place down for germs? I mean, the public --
ODOM: But this person didn`t die from germs.
GRACE: The public doesn`t know that. They go in trusting the doctors. Well, you know what, the doctor did not warn her not to get on a plane
according to our reports.
ODOM: But we don`t know that that had anything to do with her death. There`s --
GRACE: Did you just not hear the doctor -- Dr. Kavali say that getting on the plane probably added to this, because she had blood clots.
ODOM: But we don`t know that she died having anything to do with blood clots.
GRACE: Yes, it was an aneurysm.
ODOM: There might not be any connections.
GRACE: It was a blood clot. That`s how she died, that`s cause of death. We do know that. Do not mislead the viewers.
ODOM: I`m not misleading the viewers. Nancy --
GRACE: Did you say we don`t know cause of death? We do know cause of death.
ODOM: But you don`t know that the blood clots had anything to do with it, Nancy.
GRACE: Yes, I do know the blood --
ODOM: She died -- she died of a heart attack on the operating table.
GRACE: She did not have a blood clot when she went in. The blood clot happened after the surgery and when she got on the plane.
ODOM: And did she tell them the truth about what happened on the plane?
GRACE: And now to Florida. Wal-Mart express lane attack. A shopper goes berserk in the checkout line.
Straight out Meredyth Censullo in Tampa, what happened?
MEREDYTH CENSULLO, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, so William Golladay was his name. He was counting the number of items that the gentleman in front
of him had, and when it got to 20, he was like, wait a minute, you can only have 20. But the number kept going up. So what did he do? He rammed the
person in front of him, who by the way was in an electric shopping cart, because he had knee surgery.
CENSULLO: Rammed --
GRACE: Because he had too many items. OK, rage in the Wal-Mart shopping line.
OK, Clark, what more do you know?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, authorities say according to the police report that this suspect was taken
out of the Wal-Mart by a manager, but then attempted to return with his hands up in a fist position. That`s when authorities were called, Nancy.
The victim found sitting in a ride-on cart with a cane outside in the basket and quite shaken up.
GRACE: OK. Wait a minute. Are you telling me, did the guy go berserk -- let`s see Wal-Mart.
Did the guy go berserk because there in the express lane because he had more than 20 items or because he was counting them so slowly?
GOLDBAND: OK. Nancy, it appears from all the reports that it was the extra items over the 20-item express lane maximum. Once this man
apparently got to 22, that`s when the shopping cart was pushed into the senior citizen.
GRACE: OK. So he goes berserk because the guy in front of him cheated on the number in the express lane.
OK. Good to know.
Let`s stop and remember American hero Army Specialist Josiah Crumpler, 27, Hillsboro, North Carolina. Purple Heart, Army Service Ribbon, National
Defense Service Medal. Loved going to his daughter`s softball games. Parents Pam and Dennis, two brothers, one sister. Widow Shana. Two
Josiah Crumpler, American hero.
Everyone, again, thank you for being with us tonight. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night,