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Concerns Raised Over Ebola Protocols; Vatican Stunner: Shift on Gays; Tony Blair Targeted?; Jameis Winston Under Pressure Again

Aired October 14, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, gloves, gown, mask, protection from Ebola, but as our Sanjay Gupta demonstrates, it is not that hard to be exposed when removing all this gear.

And a Vatican stunner. The world's catholic bishops announce the church should welcome and even appreciate gays and lesbians.

Plus, terror plot to take down Tony Blair. New details emerging this morning about an accused terrorist who was found with the former prime minister's address.

NEWSROOM continues now.

Good morning and thanks for being here with me. I'm Ana Cabrera, sitting in for Carol Costello.

The CDC says it is now considering whether more steps need to be taken to stop the spread of Ebola, especially in the U.S., after a Dallas nurse contracted the deadly virus. The Associated Press is reporting nurse Nina Pham was one of about 70 staff members at the Dallas hospital who cared for an Ebola patient who died last week. Pham was wearing the protective gear, but is it enough? Clearly in her case, no.

CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, shows us just how it is possible to get infected even when you do follow the CDC guidelines for suiting up and removing all that gear.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So I want to give you an idea of what the CDC is recommending in terms of how to protect yourself with this personal protective gear. I'm also going to show you how to take it off, which some say is the most dangerous part. I will point out as we start to do this, I work in an operating room every week. This is different than what most doctors, I think, are used to, at least in the operating room.

Now, I do want to point out, this is a little different than how I suited up when I was in Guinea, but we're following CDC protocol. Now I want to show you how I'm going to take this protective equipment off and I'm also going to put a little chocolate sauce in my hand which could represent a possible Ebola contamination. Take a look.

This is the mask back on. So here would be the most likely contaminated area would be my gloves, maybe the front of my gown a bit like this. OK. Now I've got to -- I've got to treat this as if I'm potentially contaminated. I come out. What I'll going to do with this particular gown, I'm going to rip it all off together and everything's going to come off simultaneously. But a part of the glove sort of brushed against my hand, my arm there, that could potentially be an exposure.

If the glove didn't come off properly, I would reach underneath here as best I could and get underneath there, but perhaps, if I didn't do it exactly right, there could be another potential exposure there. I'm reaching behind now, as well as I can, but let's say the side of my face shield was contaminated and I touched here, that could potentially be an exposure. Same thing here now with the face mask.

So now take a look. Right there, see a little bit of chocolate sauce, one possible exposure and over here on my neck, one possible exposure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me now.

Sanjay, as you just demonstrated, it seems like the biggest risk certainly is taking off that protective clothing. You tried to follow the protocols and still found yourself contaminated. So do you think the CDC needs to change its guidelines perhaps?

GUPTA: You know, perhaps, Ana. You know, one thing about Ebola is that it's just not very forgiving. We know that even a small amount can cause an infection. Just keep that in the back of your mind as you're thinking about protocols. You know, when I was in West Africa, you know, in Ebola camps, and mind you these are tents and tents that are literally put up in the middle of fields, they had much different and much more stringent protocols. And the Doctors Without Borders, they've been doing this for decades and only this year had the first time a patient transmitted the virus to a health care worker.

In the United States, the first patient transmitted the virus to a health care worker. So, yes, you look at that -- that garb, if you will, Ana, and it covers every part of your skin. That's sort of the key thing, any bodily fluid that's infected that gets on your skin could possibly be a source of infection. You don't want that to happen.

CABRERA: A couple of follows to what you just said. This is the first time or first year, first outbreak in Africa that has led to patients transmitting the virus to caretakers. Does that say something about this particular strain? Is it more infective or more perhaps contagious than we thought?

GUPTA: Well, let me just clarify, health care workers often get sick from patients, especially at the beginning because they don't know they're dealing with Ebola, so they don't take careful precautions. This -- I was specifically talking about the Doctors Without Borders. These are doctors who go in there, very specific training, very specific requirements in terms of the work that they do. They have not had an infection up until this year despite the work that they've been doing there for decades.

But, you know, I do think -- and I was making this point yesterday, Ana, that does it take, you know, the Doctors Without Borders now coming to, you know, Dallas or coming to Kansas if there's a patient there, wherever it's required, because they know how to do this. You know, they haven't been doing this in some shining, gleaming hospitals. They've been doing it in really, really tough spots. I was with them in Guinea. They don't have nearly the same resources and yet they were able to greatly, greatly prevent contaminations.

CABRERA: We know the biggest nurse's union here in the U.S. is suggesting that maybe they need those hazmat suits like that space- like looking gear that we see in some of the videos. Do you think that's necessary here in the U.S.?

GUPTA: Here's what I would say, Ana. When I got -- did the sort of demonstration, I was following CDC guidelines precisely. I literally went through the guidelines and did it exactly as they say. What surprised me was how much my skin was still exposed. Underneath my neck, in my neck area, for example, still a potential exposure. That was a problem. There was no requirement for a hat or covering the top of your head with the CDC guidelines.

Whether it's a hazmat suit or something else specifically, but the idea of just covering the skinned seems to be a basic tenet of preventing infections. So whatever it is ultimately, it's got to be really good at preventing infected bodily fluid from getting anywhere on you.

CABRERA: And thank you for showing us the difficulty in protecting our health care workers right now.

GUPTA: You got it, Ana, thank you.

CABRERA: Still to come, a stunning shift by the Vatican in its approach to gays and lesbians. Is the so-called Pope Francis effect ushering the church into a new era? We'll go to Rome for a live report.

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CABRERA: A pastoral earthquake. That's just one reaction to a new Vatican report suggesting the church change its stance on gays and become more welcoming. This report issued during a meeting of nearly 200 catholic leaders, including the pope, says gay relationships provide, quote, "precious support for the couples involved." Now at least one priest says this report is a game changer.

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REV. JOHN MARTIN, JESUIT PRIEST: You've never heard of a Vatican document speak about gay relationships in any positive way. And so, at one point it says, their love is precious. That's brand new, and, frankly, I don't know where it's going to go. As you pointed out, it's only in the middle of the senate. They have another document at the end and then they have to come back again next year. But it's certainly opening the door to new discussions about these things. It is revolutionary.

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CABRERA: Joining me now to discuss more, Barbie Nadeau from Rome. She is the Rome bureau chief for "The Daily Beast."

Barbie, that priest we just heard calls this document revolutionary. But we also want to point out that this is a draft, one that will be used for working meetings next year. So how much influence will this really have, do you think?

BARBIE NADEAU, ROME BUREAU CHIEF, "THE DAILY BEAST": Well, I think the most important thing to realize is the distinction, what this document is and what it's not. Definitely there's a change in tone, but there's absolutely no change whatsoever in the doctrine of the church when it comes to recognizing same-sex marriages. It's very, very clear.

This document too, we heard the Vatican today take a step back a little bit, even scolding the press a little bit from reading too much, even accusing some of wishful thinking of what this church might be able to produce at the end of this Synod. But this is a working document and by the end this Synod this weekend, the final document coming out of that, which paves the way for this greater Synod a year from now may look nothing like this working document. And that's something that I think those in the Synod hall are very, very keen to make sure everybody outside the Synod hall understands completely, Ana.

CABRERA: This is, obviously, a very controversial issue within the catholic church and religion in general. And I understand that the Synod goes so far as to say that gay people have gifts and talents to offer the Christian community. So how much of this can be chopped up to what some have called the Pope Francis effect? What do you think?

NADEAU: Well, I think -- I think a lot of this really can be chalked up to the Francis effect. We saw one of the first thing Francis said during his reign was that who am I to judge when it comes to the question of gay priests, a man who's gay becoming a priest? You know that really paved the way to a different approach. Certainly, though, again, it's not going to be a change of doctrine, but it is a change of reproach.

We're talking, too, the catholic church seems right now not to be worried so much about the people who are already in the pews. They're looking at people who have left the church. They're looking at disgruntled Catholics, people who have left because they're divorced and remarried, people who have left because they're in same-sex relationships. Those are the people that this document is really speaking to and those are the people that Pope Francis, it would appear, wants to reach the most by softening the tone, Ana.

CABRERA: Well, Pope Francis has done a lot since he became pope, even last year commenting in 2013 saying, you know, who am I to judge when talking about homosexuals. "The New York Times" pointed this morning out saying that they had spoken with some more conservative members that say the Vatican is spinning this document and that many bishops actually do not support a change in tone. Is there any chance that this could cause a rift?

NADEAU: Well, I think it's very, very clear that they're not all in agreement inside the Synod hall. One of the problems with a closed door meeting like this is we only get bits and pieces. It's a daily press briefing. They're the briefings that happen during the week. We don't even get to hear which cardinal or bishop has been making the certain comments inside the Synod hall. So we don't really understand the nature of the tone that's going on inside, but we do hear what's going on outside and there are some very traditionalist cardinals who do not want to soften the tone on gays and on same-sex marriage and even on divorced people. But we'll see at the end of the day who wins, whether the Francis effect will win or whether those traditionalists will be able to keep the church where it's been for so many years.

CABRERA: All right, Barbie Nadeau, thank you so much.

Still to come, Tony Blair, a terror target? The opening of a London trial uncovers two possible plots.

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CABRERA: Checking top stories, Kim Jong-Un is back, at least in these photos released today by North Korean state media. You can see the pictures show Kim carrying a cane. We're not sure when these pictures were taken. Kim was last seen in public about six weeks ago.

32 million people are in the path of some nasty storms today, heavy rains already causing major traffic accidents along I-65 in Indiana, just south of Indianapolis. 26 people are being treated now for injuries after a Megabus slid off the highway. It was struck by another vehicle, apparently, that had been trying to avoid another accident caused by very slippery roads.

Now, the path of these storms stretch all the way from Mobile, Alabama, up through Maine, with parts of Georgia and the Carolinas, they're going to see the worst of it.

Tony Blair targeted? Some startling accusations coming out of a terror trial in London today and British media reports say the defendant has been accused of planning either a mass attack or an attack on a prominent person, perhaps the former British prime minister.

Let's head out to CNN's Atika Shubert in London. Atika?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ana. This is an exceptional trial and that's in the words of the judge himself, because a part of it is being conducted in secret. But in the open parts, where journalists were allowed in, and we heard some specific pieces of evidence that, according to prosecutors, showed the defendant Erol Incedal was planning a terror attack and may have been looking at the possibility of targeting a specific prominent person.

They found -- investigators found in his car a piece of paper with the address of a property belonging to Tony Blair. The other piece of evidence they found were e-mails and Skype exchanges with another suspect that used coded towards to reference Kalashnikovs and Mumbai- style attacks. That, of course, you remember, is the 2008 Mumbai attack in which gunmen took over several locations in the city, killing dozens of people.

So this is the case being laid out by prosecutors. But at the moment the court is in session now, but it is in secret, so there are a number of limited journalists allowed inside but now they're not being allowed to report what they see and hear. Meantime, the trial is continuing, of course, and Erol Incedal, the defendant, has denied all of the charges.

CABRERA: And on top of it, Atika, this comes after more arrests of more potential terrorists just yesterday, right?

SHUBERT: Yes. We saw a number of different arrests actually last night. We saw another three young men arrested here in central London. This seems to be in connection with a series of arrests we saw last week.

And we also saw a number of arrests in Portsmouth, a little further outside of London. But in that case the police are saying that that specifically was not related to any possible incidents here in the U.K. but was involved with acts of terrorism that they believe were going to be -- that were to be conducted outside of the country.

CABRERA: Pretty eye-opening. Atika Shubert, thank you so much.

Still to come, quarterback under pressure. Did Jameis Winston sign autographs for money? CNN's Andy Scholes is covering this story.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: Yes, Ana. Autographs have already sidelined Georgia star running back Todd Gurley. Will Jameis Winston be next? We'll have the details when NEWSROOM continues.

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CABRERA: Florida State quarterback Jameis Winston back in the spotlight again for off-the-field activities. ESPN is reporting the university is now investigating whether Winston signed autographs for money, of course a violation of NCAA rules.

It's the second time in less than a week that this college football star has come under scrutiny for autographs so let's get to CNN's Andy Scholes for more. Andy?

SCHOLES: Hey, Ana, how's it going. You know, hundreds of Jameis Winston autographs have been authenticated by the same company that was linked to Georgia star running back Todd Gurley, who is currently suspended indefinitely. Now, the difference between Winston and Gurley is that a dealer turned Gurley into the University of Georgia saying he paid him $400, while no one has claimed to have paid Winston.

Now, according to a report by ESPN, the Seminoles head coach Jimbo Fisher approached Winston after Saturday's win over Syracuse and flat- out asked him about the autographs. And a source told ESPN Winston told Fisher he did not sign anything for money.

Autographs are not the only problem for the reigning Heisman Trophy winner right now. Winston is already facing an upcoming disciplinary hearing to determine whether he violated Florida State's conduct code in an alleged sexual assault. And despite all of these off-the-field issues, Fisher was adamant yesterday, saying Winston has done nothing wrong and he will remain on the field.

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JIMBO FISHER, FLORIDA STATE HEAD COACH: This country based on being innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until you're proven innocent. And there are two sides of that. I think the whole -- I don't want a victim for anything, but there is no victim because there was no crime. And that's the thing we have to -- we're convicting a guy over things that are not true based on evidence. Now, if that continues, yes, but there's no evidence.

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SCHOLES: Pretty strong words there from Fisher. Now, former Florida supreme court justice will hear Winston's disciplinary hearing. Winston has until Friday to schedule that hearing. Ana, on Saturday, Florida State has their toughest game of the season when they host fifth-ranked Notre Dame.

CABRERA: Andy, on a related but separate note, you said Georgia has also suspended Todd Gurley previously but now he's back at practice?

SCHOLES: Well, under NCAA rules, schools have to declare players ineligible if they're aware of any possible NCAA violation. Now that's what Georgia has done with Gurley. And even though he hasn't been cleared to play yet, he did return to practice for Georgia yesterday.

Now, these violations that involve autograph signings, or a player letting someone profit off their likeness, they're very tough to prove for the NCAA. We saw the same thing happen just last year with Johnny Manziel. The NCAA basically has to prove money changed hands. Right now, it's the dealer's word against Gurley's. More evidence, of course, could come to light. But if Georgia says they've done an investigation, they found no money changed hands, they could give Gurley a small suspension like Texas A&M did with Manziel last year. Or they could even let him play this weekend against Arkansas. We'll of course have to wait and see how all of this plays out.

CABRERA: You'll be following. Andy Scholes, thank you.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM begins right now.

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