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Dr. Drew

School Bus Out of Control; Millionaire Mom Kills Autistic Son; Woman Keeps Body of Deceased Husband at Her House

Aired October 14, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a school bus out of control. Kids inside. And a call from inside the bus.

CALLER: She can`t stay in the lane, she`s crossing the double lines, and it`s -- the adults are getting scared.

PINSKY: Police suspect DUI, but it`s not what you think.

Plus, a millionaire over the edge. Did she actually murder her autistic son? Our behavior digs in.

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Good evening, everybody. My co-host is Samantha Schacher.

A bus full of fifth and six graders are on their way to a much anticipated field trip, but the bus driver reportedly intoxicated on a prescription

medication. This was anything but a fun-filled day. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CALLER: I don`t get scared very easily, but my heart is pounding.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A frantic chaperon on a field trip on this Davis School District bus dials 911 on the road to Provo.

CALLER: Oh, oh!

DISPATCHER: What happened?

CALLER: She almost hit this van next to us. OK, I am honestly shaking at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thirty-nine-year-old Lisa Martinez (ph) is behind the wheel just before 8:00 Monday morning with 67 elementary students and seven

adults on board, where passengers and other drivers along I-15 through Salt Lake County are nervous.

CALLER: Whoever is driving this thing can`t maintain a lane.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After a couple of close calls --

CALLER: She is freaking us out, man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A trooper pulls the bus where Martinez fails a field sobriety test. Inside her the purse, four bottles of prescribed pills.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar from AnahitaLaw.com, Karamo Brown, host of #OWNShow on Oprah.com, Evy Poumpouras, law enforcement analyst and

former Secret Service special agent.

Dash cam video of Utah highway patrol officers pulling over the bus posted on YouTube. The driver arrested. Suspicion of DUI.

A spokesperson described the pills reportedly discovered in the purse as, quote, "anti-anxiety and muscle relaxers."

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: So, Dr. Drew, how impaired would somebody not only be taking the muscle relaxers but also anti-anxiety pills?

PINSKY: Well, personally, I would never prescribe those things together except under extreme circumstances. Muscle relaxants, you`re talking about

Soma, Robaxin. Anti-anxiety medications, you`re typically talking about Benzodiazepine like Valium, Xanax, Ativan.

SCHACHER: Geez.

PINSKY: And either should not be operating a vehicle. Together, you can lose insight and not know what`s going on. You really are so out of it,

Anahita, that you don`t realize you`re as bad as you are. My question is, is this the patient`s fault or the doctor`s?

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Well, I think arguably it is the patient`s fault, Dr. Drew. She should have known better, but thankfully no one got

hurt. She shouldn`t have been hurt knowing that she`s on the medication, knowing that there could be these types of side effects, and she`s going to

be criminally charges if she hasn`t, but I think it should be a misdemeanor, not a felony.

And I certainly don`t think, Dr. Drew, she should be terminated. I heard the school is thinking of terminating her. I think she needs to be

suspended. Maybe get some more education. But termination --

PINSKY: Hold on. Counselor, I think you`re making a moral judgment here. What if it were alcohol or pot? Would then she be terminated?

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I think you have to look at the history. This shouldn`t be a felony, number one. But her history is she`s been with the

school for six years, Dr. Drew. She`s had no prior instances of misconduct. It`s a matter of educating her.

PINSKY: All right, all right.

Karamo, you say no?

KARAMO BROWN, #OWNSHOW: I say no definitely and I disagree wholeheartedly. When I heard the story, I was full of rage. You cannot say that, oh, she

had six years of not doing anything, so she gets off with a misdemeanor.

They need to throw the book at this woman. Sixty-seven children could have died! Sixty-seven children could have lost their lives! That is not

something to play with here.

PINSKY: That`s right. I think Karamo`s making a good point, Sam, is that if there had been a catastrophe, we would be having a very different

conversation.

SCHACHER: Oh, yes, she would be facing a whole different onslaught of charges. But, listen, I do have empathy for the fact that she had six

years, the whole time she was unemployed without incidents. However, her sole job is to drive and to drive --

BROWN: Thank you, Sam.

SCHACHER: -- children at that, and to get them from point A to point B safely. So, I`m sorry if she was a receptionist or a barista. Then, yes,

she can keep her job. But a bus driver? No.

PINSKY: But, Sam, the physician that prescribed the meds knew, I hope, that she or she prescribing to a bus driver.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: Do we know it`s from the same physician? Sometimes people go to different doctor.

PINSKY: You`re right. If she didn`t -- you`re absolutely right.

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.

SCHACHER: Isn`t it on the prescription label every time do not drive?

PINSKY: Yes. Don`t drive.

SEDAGHATFAR: She should have known better.

(CROSSTALK)

EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: Yes, I have to say, you know, she is a bus driver. Her job is to drive children. That is your job. Knowing

that, you understand that obviously you`re not supposed to be under the influence of any drugs or alcohol and or prescription medications.

When you go to a pharmacist, and they give you a prescription medication, they tell you, hey, read the label. The sticker is right there. That is

her responsibility. Responsibility to know and I don`t care if they give her a felony.

They should give her a felony. She should not drive again. That is a serious, serious, seriously bad choice she made.

PINSKY: Well, now, of course, let`s talk about the school district guidelines. All the drivers go through drug screenings before being hired

and subject to at least one random drug test a year and any driver that takes a prescription medication is supposed to inform their supervisor --

so, again, Anahita, it`s unknown if she had done that. Perhaps the supervisor plays a role, here, too.

SEDAGHATFAR: If she told them, yes. But I think, ultimately, it is her responsibility, but the issue is what should the penalty be? Luckily,

thank goodness, no one was hurt. No children were injured. I think this was just a bad judgment call and she obviously needs more education, Dr.

Drew. She`s obviously mentally --

(CROSSTALK)

POUMPOURAS: What if she`s flying the plane, Anahita? Would you be saying the same thing? Think of it that way. What if she was commandeering a

plane instead of a bus?

SEDAGHATFAR: Of course. I`m not saying she should not be held responsible but the penalty for her.

BROWN: The penalty should be, she should lose her license and --

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s not going to happen.

BROWN: She should never work with children and the book thrown at her. These are children`s lives. My child on that --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: I think our attorney is -- once our attorney takes a position --

SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: -- she can`t change it I think is what`s happening here. You can`t convince he otherwise.

SEDAGHATFAR: But she is suffering from a mental illness.

PINSKY: I don`t know that.

SEDAGHATFAR: She`s taking anxiety medication!

PINSKY: Well, I have generalized anxiety. Damn it, I have a generalized anxiety disorder.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: Is that not a mental disorder --

PINSKY: Well, in our case, yes, severe mental disorder in our case. But the facts is --

SEDAGHATFAR: I`m just --

PINSKY: But the fact is, not major mental illness in the sense of somebody, you know, losing touch with reality. Sam sometimes I wonder.

SCHACHER: That`s true.

PINSKY: Anyway, no. Just -- but the medication, when you take these medicines, you lose insight. You lose insight. I really want to put some

of the blame with the medical practitioners if they didn`t properly prepare their patient for this, even if she had gotten the prescriptions of two

different doctors, they should be aware of what`s going on.

The pharmacist should be part of the story, too. I hate blaming the patient in these situations though I am sympathetic.

SEDAGHATFAR: Thank you.

PINSKY: Well, I hate doing it. I`m not saying --

SCHACHER: Come on, she`s an adult. She`s not like 14. She knows better.

SEDAGHATFAR: The reality is, Dr. Drew, pharmacists rarely ever talk to you about medications you pick up. I don`t think I`ve ever had a pharmacist

come to me and say, this medication has this side effect or that side effect.

PINSKY: I`m not going to let you criticize my pharmacological colleagues quite that severely, because if you`re taking a medication that`s affecting

your sensorium, I think somebody comes out from behind the counter and give you a talking to. I`m just saying.

All right, guys. If you have never driven with prescription pills in your system, if you have done that, rather, you are what our next guest calls

law enforcement`s nightmare. We will tell you why.

And later, did this woman murder her autistic son? We`ll talk about what we think are torturous procedures she put him through.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CALLER: I don`t get scared very easily, but my heart is pounding.

Oh, oh!

DISPATCHER: What happened?

CALLER: She almost hit this van next to us. OK, I am honestly shaking at this point.

CALLER: She is freaking us out, man.

CALLER: Whoever is driving this thing can`t maintain a lane.

TROOPER: Witnesses said school bus was traveling very erratically. Leaving the lane. Cutting people off.

SCHOOL DISTRICT SPOKESMAN: I-15 is typically loaded with traffic. You have a loaded bus. Talk about precious cargo. It could have been

disastrous. We could have had a whole bunch of kids hurt, so we`re lucky.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Back with Sam and bringing in behavior bureau.

Erica America, psychotherapist and TV host, Jena Kravitz, clinical psychologist, and Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love

Detox."

That Utah bus driver reportedly was on anxiety medication and muscle relaxants.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Oh!

PINSKY: Yes, Yes. Good times.

We will talk to our behavior bureau in a second but first a law enforcement expert, Sheriff Richard Jones. He`s on the phone.

Sheriff Jones, several dozen students, five-lane highway, 75 miles an hour speed limit and the driver on pills. This must be one of your worst

nightmares.

RICHARD JONES, BUTLER COUNTY SHERIFF (via telephone): Worst nightmare. We are afraid it happens more than not when people drive and take medications

and they drive these vehicles that`s no different than -- only thing we had here, no crash. We were fortunate, but it still when you get this

medication, you get directions on how to take it. That`s your responsibility. We don`t know how lucky we were that she did not wreck

this bus.

PINSKY: Sheriff Jones, Sheriff, I got to ask you, I know that we have just, you know, we are in our country are just being, I don`t know of a

better word than pillified. We`re taking pills. Everyone is taking pills. Everyone is intoxicated from medication.

Are law enforcement -- I know they have seeing a rise in this -- but are they having difficulties of sorting out what`s alcohol and pills and a

crime and what isn`t?

JONES: Oh, yes. We have no idea. The state that is passed legislation where marijuana is legal, we don`t have a machine other than blood and

urine that can determine what you`re taking other than from alcohol. If we don`t smell the alcohol but if you can`t pass a sobriety check on the side

of the road we take you in, blow into a machine and if you still -- we feel you`re intoxicated, we can order a blood test or urine test. Other than

that, you`re looking at hours.

SCHACHER: Wow.

JONES: And for the police to be off the road and it is -- we have these pill factories all over the country. Our society take a pill for it, you

know, a majority of the prescription drugs, legal prescription drugs, people are going to work. They`re driving. They tell you on this stuff,

don`t operate machinery.

PINSKY: Yes.

JONES: Don`t use chainsaws. Don`t drive school buses.

PINSKY: All right. Thank you, Sheriff. I appreciate your comments.

Jenna, you get what I`m getting at here? This may be the medical system`s fault? Maybe I`m guilty, too. I don`t know. We all sort of have to check

ourselves on this one. You see where I`m going with this?

JENA KRAVITZ, MEDICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. Dr. Drew, I have a little bit of a different perspective here. I take medications that do this, potentially

that can alter your mental status for a legit medical condition and I can understand why people take them, the goal is to improve the quality of life

so that you canto work and enjoy time with your children. I`m a little bit sympathetic to her because of that, but I will say that when you take these

medications, what happens is this diminished level of awareness and insight, so you don`t realize how compromised your mental status is.

PINSKY: Hold that thought. Sam, you`re the only sort of nonclinical person on the panel. Do you get what she`s getting at here --

SCHACHER: I do, Dr. Drew, but come on.

PINSKY: No, no, I want to make sure that the point is getting across. The patient sometimes will take a medicine and not -- they lose the capacity,

the brain function to give you insight to be objective about your state, you lose that.

SCHACHER: But aren`t you supposed to look at the information and the instruction before that?

PINSKY: Yes, yes, yes.

SCHACHER: I`m not Debbie do-right but I even do that. I know better than to get behind the wheel, especially if I`m driving children or anybody

else.

PINSKY: Yes. I agreed with who said it last time, was Evy talking about the plane, commandeering a plane. I think a school bus should be dealt

with like a plane but I`m not sure it is. I don`t know that`s the way they run or the laws adjudicate this.

But, Erica, you see it may have been just a small dose of benzodiazepine or a different doctor gave her the muscle relaxant.

ERICA AMERICA, TV HOST: Yes, you know, I think regardless if she knew or not what she was doing wrong, she can`t be driving a bus. And I don`t -- I

want to make sure that we don`t penalize her for taking anti-anxiety medicine. That`s fine. She`s allowed to do that.

SCHACHER: Of course.

AMERICA: I think Sam said earlier, she is not a barista. She`s driving a school bus with 67 children on board. So, she may not be able to do that

job. Why did she not know that? Was it the doctors that they didn`t say it? I think there`s some personal responsibility there, though, that there

is that moment looking at the bottle and saying --

PINSKY: I get you.

AMERICA: I can`t drive a moving vehicle.

PINSKY: And, Wendy, I`m being somewhat polemical here. But it may not be -- it may be addiction. I mean, this could be addictive pathology, too.

Couldn`t it?

WALSH: I need to say two words beside each other and have you think. Muscle relaxant, driving a bus. Think about it.

I don`t care what the law says. I don`t care what their employer says. If you take something that relaxes your muscles, the things you need to drive

and steer properly, you should think about it before you take that. And I think, yes, we should have strict guidelines for a school bus drivers just

like airplanes.

PINSKY: And, by the way, getting into school buses, Jena, why is it getting on a plane as Wendy says, I buckle in like going to the moon and a

school bus, my children who I really care about they sit on a bench and driven by somebody on a muscle relaxer!

(CROSSTALK)

KRAVITZ: I just had this discussion with someone this morning because my kids said they want to take the bus to school. I thought there`s no seat

belt. I agree with you.

I mean, listen, at the end of the day, I`m happy that nobody was harmed here. Would I want my kids on the bus with this woman? No freaking way!

Do I think she should be held accountable? Absolutely. But I can understand why she took the medications. Unless, of course, she`s dosing

up, abusing them, things like that.

PINSKY: Erica, I see furrowed brow. Then, Sam.

AMERICA: Yes, no. I just wonder, I`m not putting under the bus -- sorry, under the bus -- the supervisors but I`m just wondering was this the first

situation? Because if it wasn`t, wouldn`t the supervisors have noticed erratic driving before?

PINSKY: We don`t know this. The point is what I was making before. Aren`t there people to help this poor woman? She`s the patient.

You know what I`m saying, Sam? That she -- there`s a pharmacist. There`s a doctor. There`s a supervisor. And the patient gets herself in trouble.

I can`t say this is an addicted woman who is doctor shopping. I can`t say she did it maliciously. She`s even following instructions.

SCHACHER: I know that she is subject to random drug tests once a year, according to --

AMERICA: Once a year.

SCHACHER: Once a year. But still, it`s random. I know this was her only incident, six years she`s been employed. But I`m also perplexed to know

that seven parents were adults were on that bus. You would think that the 40 miles they drove where she was swerving that sooner the police would

have been called or they would have intervened. If I was on that bus and it was swerving, I would have intervened.

PINSKY: Maybe the swerving was the last couple of miles after she popped the pills.

SCHACHER: Exactly.

PINSKY: And who knows? So much -- this raises lots of interesting problems, it`s why I wanted to do this story and it`s dramatic, and I think

about putting our kids on a school bus what we`re doing.

Erica, what?

AMERICA: I was just going to say, we have to realize how important that job of bus driver of a school bus is.

PINSKY: Got to drive the bus. A screwball "The Simpsons", right? Wendy, is this the guy that had been portrayed as a pothead portrayal. Isn`t that

guy who drives the bus?

WALSH: Dr. Drew, why would we bother putting good, strict guidelines on drivers? Kids don`t pay taxes. The lawmakers don`t care. Sorry. But

it`s true.

PINSKY: Well, I`ve always been troubled by the seats that we put our kids in. We take much bigger precautions in almost every other moving vehicle

than we put ourselves in let alone our kids. I don`t know. I don`t quite understand that.

But, everybody, if we have a problem with it, maybe we can change things there. That`s a place that maybe this will raise awareness.

All right. Next up, did a millionaire murder her autistic son? You will hear some incredible testimony.

Later, our most tweeted story of the day, when a woman found her husband had died, she did not call for help. Oh no. She kept him as bird food.

I`ll explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gigi Jordan, the multimillionaire mother, charged with killing her 8-year-old son, desperately wants to tell her story, her

attorneys say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has a story of how this unfolded and what happened to her and what happened to Jude.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Manhattan DA calls me a child murderer but I tried to kill myself along with my son to save him from a life of sexual

torture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Little Jude Mira who was autistic found lifeless at a posh suite in February of 2010.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jordan on the floor of the hotel room suffering from a drug overdose but still alive. Her 8-year-old autistic son Jude already

dead on the bed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Anahita, Karamo and Evy.

Fifty-three-year-old pharmaceutical millionaire Gigi Jordan is on trial for murdering her 8-year-old nonverbal autistic son with a medication overdose.

She says she did it because he asked -- nonverbal son asked her to kill him by supposedly typing out his request on a blackberry. And that the

BlackBerry is also how he had told her, nonverbally, explain this, everybody, he had told her with the BlackBerry his horrific stories of

sexual abuse.

Sam, tell me more about this.

SCHACHER: OK. This is where I explain the two men who she basically blames for the death of her son. She says one ex-husband, the biological

father, abused their son sexually and tortured him and claims that the son told her about this typing it out as you just stated, Dr. Drew, on the

BlackBerry.

She has another ex she claimed mob connected and he was threatening to kill her and she says she was afraid she should be dead and unable to protect

her son from the abuse, that`s why she killed him.

PINSKY: So, he was sexually abused allegedly and that made him want to kill himself and his nonverbal way communicated that to her and why she

killed him.

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: I want to do -- want to backwards of what I normally do tonight. Evy, I want to start with. Whether you`re dropping the bomb at the end,

give me your instinct on this lady right now.

POUMPOURAS: I think she`s completely deceptive. I mean, from the beginning to end, the story`s not right. It`s like I killed my son to

protect him if I`m not around, but in the end, she is still alive. When I take certain statements from individuals and within that statement you can

see somebody`s being deceptive or truthful.

Let me read something to you. I had a big surge of adrenaline. My heart started pounded and raced over to him and I was crying and sobbing and I

grabbed him off the bed and I put him on the floor and I was crying and calling, Jude, Jude, Jude. I tried to attempt to do CPR.

So, what`s wrong with this? She is speaking in the present tense. Crying, sobbing. When somebody`s speaking in the present tense, I mean, they`re

manufacturing something in their mind as they`re speaking to you.

When you collect information from the past, you speak in the past. I cried. I sobbed. I went, I ate.

The other thing, she says, I try to do CPR, either did or you didn`t. So, that is why she is reading as if it`s a novel.

The other thing is when somebody tells you a true statement, even if it`s traumatic, they`re going to describe the events as they happened and then

at the end they put the emotion in there and making it up you think it should read like a novel and throw the emotion in throughout the whole

thing. Highly deceptive. This woman -- I mean, from top to bottom, just not good.

PINSKY: All right. Counselor, Anahita, the mom claiming this was a mercy killing. Oddly, she tried to revive him as Evy tells us. She also claimed

that she had tried to kill herself.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right.

PINSKY: Is anything about this making a good defense?

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, no. The last I checked it is not a defense to murder to say I killed somebody to protect them from abuse or being molested.

PINSKY: Or, or, or, Anahita, by the way, whoops, it was supposed to be a murder-suicide. Whoops.

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, and I didn`t die -- conveniently I didn`t die.

PINSKY: How`s that defense?

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, it`s not a defense. And I`m going to tell you what happened. Initially the defense was going to be -- she was going to plead

legal insanity. That`s where her lawyers wanted the case to go, where she could acquitted completely if the jurors believed her, but she refused a

psychological evaluation and couldn`t present the defense and now, they`re going with the defense of she was under extreme emotional distress at the

time she killed her son and therefore, this should be a manslaughter, not a not guilty, but a manslaughter. Not a murder.

So they`re going for somewhere in between. I think she should have gone with the insanity defense with a chance of acquittal playing the sympathy

card pretty well with one parent on that jury.

PINSKY: Sympathy card, Karamo? Karamo, sympathy. Do you have sympathy for this woman?

BROWN: There`s not sympathy at all! This is a monster and I hope they throw the book at her, because she is absolutely despicable! I detest

everything about her.

How dare you take a child`s life because you were not able to believe his diagnosis? She even said, I`m not able to believe the diagnosis and the

issue. This was too much for her to handle. Instead of giving the child to a loving family that could have supported him and been there for him,

she decided to take his life. I hope they do the same for her.

PINSKY: Samantha, were you about to tell the details of the garbage she got into?

SCHACHER: So crazy.

PINSKY: I want you to hold it.

SCHACHER: OK.

PINSKY: I want you to hold it. I don`t want you to -- because he`s said that she couldn`t accept it. I think that`s right. I want to bring in the

behavior bureau and lay it on them. Because when they hear what you did to try to treat this boy`s autism ...

SCHACHER: Horrific.

PINSKY: It is torturous and bizarre.

SCHACHER: But Doctor ...

PINSKY: Now, go ahead, Sam, go ahead.

SCHACHER: I was just going to say the reason why I don`t believe her, not because her story is so outrageous, which it is, but the fact that she is

pointing her finger at everybody else. She`s gone through 11 different defense attorneys. She`s changed her own line of defense multiple times.

Behind bars, she`s trying to get her murder charge dismissed because she`s saying it`s taking too long. She plays the victim card.

PINSKY: Taking too long?

SCHACHER: Yes!

SEDAGHATFAR: Taking the stand, you guys, that`s really her only saving grace because, Dr. Drew, you know, it`s very risky to put a criminal

defendant on the stand when they are being ...

PINSKY: I know. I don`t know that, but it`s somebody like this I can`t imagine there`s anything redeeming that you get by putting her on the

stand.

SEDAGHATFAR: I think there is.

PINSKY: She put ...

SEDAGHATFAR: It doesn`t matter.

PINSKY: Really?

SEDAGHATFAR: It takes one of those juries to think, oh my god, I feel sorry for her.

PINSKY: She put 11 medications and alcohol into her son`s system. He had 20 to 40 times the therapeutic amount of ADD, and blood pressure. That`s a

calamity. That`s not just to drop his pressure into the toilet. 15 the count - amount - 15 times the amount of Ambien that would be - let`s call

it appropriate. 19 times an adult dose of Xanax, then she loaded up a syringe and put a bizarre combination of Benadryl, Prozac and Celebrex, an

anti-inflammatory into his vein and injected it. Evy.

POUMPOURAS: And she also moved money. Did we not see the part? There`s money where she moved millions of dollars to include her son`s money out of

his checking account into hers. I mean you line all that up. That is not appropriate behavior. That is a woman who decided I agree with Karamo, I`m

overwhelmed. I don`t want to deal with. I want to concoct this whole story, and then I want to get rid of my child.

PINSKY: I`m going to bring up the - it`s called the chemo - it`s called the chemo receptor trigger zone. It`s down here. It makes you, want to

vomit. So, probably - vomit. And that`s what I`m feeling right now. So, I want to bring in a behavior bureau to try to sort this out a little bit.

Make me feel a little better.

And later on, an elderly man dies at home, but it`s what his wife did next that may surprise you. We`re back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The D.A. said I killed Jude so I could live as a socialite. If I wanted that, I could have paid to institutionalize him. I

didn`t because I loved Jude.

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, ATTORNEY: As a mother who loved her child, she engaged in what is called altruistic suicide.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was trapped in a corner. I was a mother trying to protect my young, my beautiful, abused son from further sexual torture. If

I have to spend the rest of my life in jail knowing that Jude could never again be molested, it will be worth it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I am back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Erica, Wendy and Jena. We are talking about the Manhattan mom socialite who killed her non-verbal

autistic son. You just heard a recreation of an interview she had done with the "New York Daily News." Jena, you know what? You guys, I want to,

Sam, I want you to fill in -- Jena, it will push you aside for a second.

KRAVITZ: OK.

PINSKY: We`re going to bring Sam back, yeah. Sam. Tell us all the crazy stuff this mom did then. I`m going to have the brave behavior bureau

respond.

SCHACHER: Well, before she believed and after she killed her son, you know, before she said that he suffered from PTSD and it wasn`t autism.

PINSKY: Hold on. So, he - all of his nonverbal.

SCHACHER: So, let`s build to it. Yes. Let`s build to it.

PINSKY: OK, go ahead.

SCHACHER: Let me take that back.

PINSKY: All right, please.

SCHACHER: So, when he was diagnosed with autism, she would take him, parade him around to a number of different doctors. She apparently visited

the world renowned doctors and one time had his - and you would know this better than me, Dr. Drew. Had his blood removed from his collarbone area?

PINSKY: That`s they dialyzed him. They put him on a dialysis machine. The kidney dialysis machine, God knows, plenty of people are dialyzed these

days, so far it hasn`t cured any psychiatric illnesses. OK. Neurological condition, nice.

SCHACHER: She believed it would help with the autism, then she actually put him through chemotherapy thinking that killing all the white blood

cells ...

PINSKY: Chemotherapy?

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: So, poisoning.

SCHACHER: And apparently it was excruciating. Yes.

PINSKY: Poisoning his system. And by the way, I imagine needed bone marrow biopsies to see what they were doing, which means they took a giant

needle and drill it into the sacrum. Erica, what do you want to say?

AMERICA: No, I mean everything to me points that this woman is mentally ill. And it`s funny, because there was the only thing that she could do to

actually potentially get her off is, plead insanity and she won`t do that showing that she really is crazy. It`s really interesting. I mean there`s

a couple of things. OK, an 8-year-old doesn`t have the capacity to say whether he wants to die or not and if he does, you don`t then say OK, I`m

going to kill him. That`s number one. Number two, she seemed to blame everybody in his life, you know, this dad, this dad, he did this, he did

that, but she is the one that actually killed him. That doesn`t make sense. So, it`s just - there`s a lot of odd things. And what`s also very

interesting is that, you know, I just -- I just think that it just seems very odd to me. All of her behavior and it reminds me almost of the salt

mom. I wouldn`t be like - it wouldn`t surprise me if she ...

PINSKY: It has that feel, yes. It has that kind of feel, and sort of - a weird sort of Munchausen (ph) type of thing.

AMERICA: There`s something with the mother and the son fused together.

PINSKY: Yeah.

AMERICA: ... something very odd there.

PINSKY: Jena?

KRAVITZ: You know, yeah, actually -- this is so unconscionable as a parent. I can`t even imagine. Certainly, there are moments as a parent

that are difficult but never has this crossed my mind. I really think, Dr. Drew, that this is narcissism at its finest combined with terrible coping

skills and some acute distress. This is a woman who may or may not have looked at her child as a personal and biological failure, which motivated

and propelled her behavior to do all of these really insane, extreme things with him to cure him so he would be normal, because it`s more a reflection

of her. It`s really deep, it`s really complex. But at the end of the day, all of her behaviors to this point including playing god and determining

whether he has a right to live or die are consistent with this grandiose narcissism.

PINSKY: There you go. I think you`re right, Jena. Wendy, do you have anything to add to that? She is playing God with this child from the

moment she knows that she can`t control his biology and ultimately has to control it by killing him.

WALSH: Absolutely she`s playing god. But you know what? I think equally guilty in this medical torture are all the doctors who ...

PINSKY: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Yes! I totally agree with you, Wendy. But believe me, they weren`t in this country. People go get -- listen. When I saw that, did

you see the documentary of that poor Farrah Fawcett did after her (INAUDIBLE) cell cancer? The stuff that was being done to her in Germany

was unconscionable. The suffering, we watched her go through that documentary. It was unbelievable. For nothing.

SCHACHER: But then, Dr. Drew, after the fact she goes and says, oh, it wasn`t autism. Of course, after she killed him. She said he suffered from

PTSD from all of the abuse from his stepfather and blah blah blah.

PINSKY: OK, so Wendy, Wendy, address that. So she says -- she goes into - - finally she can`t cure the autism. So, now she says it doesn`t exist and PTSD.

WALSH: Right.

PINSKY: Because every male in his life is sexually abusing him.

WALSH: Right. What she is doing is, she is trying to transfer the blame anywhere she possibly can except on herself and she wants to make sure that

she doesn`t have any kind of mental illness, any testing done on herself. And this tells me that this is a woman who we shouldn`t listen to anything

she`s saying right now, Dr. Drew.

(LAUGHTER)

WALSH: She is only just coming up with new defenses every day.

PINSKY: I would - I would ...

AMERICA: Yeah, she doesn`t believe she is mentally ill.

PINSKY: Right. And anybody - anybody here have trouble believing she is mentally ill or some very, very serious at least ...

AMERICA: But that`s why she`s denying the - at first place.

SCHACHER: And nobody can corroborate the fact that this kid was communicating through Blackberry. Not one person. Ever witnessed this

child communicate via Blackberry.

WALSH: He didn`t have the intellectual ability to do that.

SCHACHER: Yeah.

PINSKY: Right.

WALSH: If there`s anybody out there on the planet who still thinks that autism is a disease and these kids are suffering terribly, I met a great

14-year-old boy yesterday with autism who`s the most interesting person in the world and he said to me, some people think we should cure autism. But

I would never want to change. I like me.

PINSKY: There you go. There you go. It`s lovely. And it`s to the extent that he needs help that even a kid like that, there is help.

WALSH: There are resources.

PINSKY: There are resources. There are things to be done. There are ways to manage this thing. And listen. For anybody, don`t deny your diagnosis.

I`m telling you something. If you go into denial, when somebody has a clear diagnosis and it is agreed upon amongst multiple professionals, don`t

deny that and really listen to what they have to tell you. I just think about the people like Steve Jobs. He would be alive today if he just

listened to what the - I imagine, what the pros said to him. Because the fact is, he needed a big surgery and he`d be alive if he had gotten that.

Don`t think you know better than people who spent their entire life dedicated to managing these things.

All right, panel, next up, husband died. She didn`t call anybody. She left his body to be eaten by birds. Yep. Our most tweeted story of the

day up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the spot inside her (INAUDIBLE) at home where Solomon says her husband died.

ILA SOLOMON: I know I did commit failure to report. And that is a crime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Solomon told officers that Gavan was traveling with her sister and brother-in-law saying they went to the Kentucky Derby. When

police asked about Gavan`s health, she told them that he suffered a stroke and was in an assisted living facility.

SOLOMON: I know he went and got a haircut that day and I know he went over to McDonald`s and had a cup of coffee that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Solomon says Gavan died April 28th from a stroke and she claims her husband wanted to be eaten by birds following his death. So

she opened up windows and doors every day after he died.

SOLOMON: So, he wanted me to open the doors so the birds from the ravine would come in, but the birds never came in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Oh my god. I`m back with Sam, Anahita, Karamo and every - it is the story you`re tweeting about most tonight. That woman kept her husband,

her dead husband`s body in the house for nine months. Whole time, she cashed in his Social Security - his Social Security and pension checks.

Oops! Now she`s facing fraud charges. She`s not charged with having harmed him. Only failure to dispose properly of the body. Anahita, do you

think there was something sinister here or is this just a scam?

SEDAGHATFAR: I would like to see what the toxicology report and autopsy report show as the cause of death before I decide, but based on what I know

already, I think she`s more mentally ill, Dr. Drew, than she`s criminal or sinister or evil because what sane person can live with a decomposing dead

body in the same house for nine months? That is just not normal. And then she is talking about how her husband wanted to be eaten by birds as part of

some ritual. That just sounds delusional to me. So, I think she needs help more than she needs to be ...

PINSKY: How dare you judge somebody`s rituals, somebody`s after ...

SEDAGHATFAR: It`s so bizarre.

PINSKY: The rituals. Sam, isn`t there some weird ritual that they were alluding to there?

SCHACHER: Yeah. We did some research on this ritual, Dr. Drew. It is called the sky burial and it`s a process in which the remains of the

deceased are fed to vultures. The custom is known as Jahartar (ph), excuse my accent, I guess.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHACHER: Which means giving alms to the birds. But Dr. Drew, then why isn`t the body, as Anahita said, why is he sitting in the middle of the

living room, why wouldn`t she at least move the body to the outdoors?

PINSKY: Listen. Nothing, nothing entertained me more than look on Karamo`s face when you read about it, Fartar, whatever that ritual is ...

SCHACHER: Jahartar.

PINSKY: So, Karamo, go ahead.

BROWN: I can`t help it. This woman is crazy. She`s sick in the head. The minute I read this, I immediately started laughing because I thought

this had to be a joke. There`s no way that this woman left a body in the middle of her house and then said I wanted birds to eat it. Girl, bye.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: Get out of here. You are a nut. What is wrong with you? I have no words for this woman.

PINSKY: Yeah. Hang up with that tweet back up you guys just had here. Basically tweet said that some -- it`s gone. That this woman, that whoever

sent that tweet to us, believes this story more than the last story about the autistic kid. But Evy, let me have bring you in here at this point. I

don`t actually see -- I mean, there`s weirdness in this story, but I don`t actually see objective evidence of mental illness. I see somebody cashing

a check for nine months.

POUMPOURAS: You know, that`s so it`s so funny to say that - some of the first cases I worked when I started working as a special agent with fraud

against the government, people who say I didn`t get my Social Security check or whatever and I worked a lot of cases where there were people that

did not report when the loved one was deceased so they could continue cashing those checks. So, I have worked tons of those cases. I have to

say, though, I have never worked a case where they ...

(LAUGHTER)

SCHACHER: Where they actually didn`t do anything with the body. I shouldn`t be laughing. This is terrible. But, I mean, and this -- I feel

that there is some sort of mental illness only because she didn`t dispose of the body.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: There`s something odd there.

PINSKY: Exactly.

SCHACHER: I do think she is a fraudster. I do think she is a criminal, because she was married a couple of times prior to him.

PINSKY: OK.

SCHACHER: And it`s also not to stereotype, he seems significantly older.

PINSKY: Oh, yes, he was. Quite a bit. I mean she must have been -- that`s for me, that`s another piece of evidence that she was sort of

planning this and maybe it was a guy with some resources but, Sam, tell me about those previous relationships.

SCHACHER: Yes, so she married this guy back in 2012 as Evy just alluded to. He was 88. She`s 54. She`s been married ...

PINSKY: Wait, wait, wait. Hold on a second. Let that sink in a second. He was 88.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: So his maximum time on the planet would be probably certainly ten years at the most.

SCHACHER: At the most.

PINSKY: Of which at least six or seven of those years would be gravely impaired.

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: She`s younger than most -- come on now. This is ridiculous.

SCHACHER: And this was her third marriage. She`s been married at least two times before. And also, what`s really interesting is she married her

second husband just nine days after her divorce from the first one.

PINSKY: All right. So there`s a lot of - Evy, you are coming around to my way of thinking on this? With the decomposing body in a living room and

the birds, maybe it`s just a variation on a theme.

POUMPOURAS: I do feel that there`s some type of mental illness coupled with being a con artist, being a fraudster. I just have worked so many of

these. I have never seen anything like this one.

PINSKY: OK. I`m going to bring this panel back and also give you a reminder that you can find us any time on Instagram. The address is

@Dr.DrewHLN. It`s an interesting Instagram. I suggest you follow it. And we`re getting near some milestones in terms of the number of followers.

So, please join us there. Be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police got suspicious and entered the house. There, they found a tarp covered by bed covers and a powdery substance that

appeared to be lime. They found a body of a deceased person in advance stage of decay. It was Gavan`s remains. The coroner determined that

Gavan`s dead body had been there for nine months. Cashing Social Security and pension checks that belonged to her dead husband while his body was

decomposing on this hardwood floor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Oh, on the floor - the woman is just incredible. I`m back with Sam, Anahita, Karamo and Evy discussing a woman who kept her dead husband`s

body in the house for nine months. She told the police his final wish that she kept him there, because this was his final wish, to be eaten by birds.

I have a Facebook post from Cindy, she says, quote, "My father-in-law used to say, toss him in the garden, but guess what, he is in a cemetery."

Karamo, I mean, the point is that rational people, sane people do sane things.

BROWN: Yes. And she is clearly not sane. I saw an interview where this woman said that she wants to be a grief counselor because of the judgment

she`s received.

SCHACHER: What?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Wait, wait. Say that again. Slow down.

BROWN: The woman who wanted her husband to be devoured by birds said, because of the judgment she`s receiving, she wants to be a grief counselor.

If that`s not a clear indication this lady is crazy, I don`t know what else is.

PINSKY: Evy, is that - don`t cover your face on this one. Do you think, Evy, that that`s more consciousness of guilt perhaps for, you know, she`s

trying to compensate for cashing his checks?

POUMPOURAS: Yeah. I need to bring it back. I normally don`t laugh on these. But I do think, look. My concern is a little bit, I mean, I wonder

if she had anything to do with the death, as well ...

PINSKY: Right.

POUMPOURAS: ... or something was happening to him and then she allowed him to die.

PINSKY: OK. And that`s where I started this conversation, right?

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.

PINSKY: You said you want to see the autopsy. Do you think there was something about her keeping him this long was an attempt to hide evidence

in some weird way? I don`t know enough about decompositions, no whether certain medication, or certain evidence of asphyxiation. I mean the guy

was 40 years older than she was.

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, there`s nothing wrong with that. That is really - that` s not really relevant, Dr. Drew.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: I think back to the consciousness of guilt here. It was - unlike she was - and hide the body. I think she was sort of trying to

preserve the body, because I heard something about her pouring lemon juice on him.

PINSKY: Lime.

SEDAGHATFAR: It might have been a way to preserve the body, so that`s what leads me to believe she`s more mentally ill than criminal or evil. Because

there really were no attempts to hide the body or show some type of guilt.

PINSKY: Samantha.

POUMPOURAS: No, Dr. Drew, she can`t be in her right mind. She` watching TV, drinking coffee in her living room while her dead husband`s underneath

a tarp? Dr. Drew, come on.

PINSKY: I`m persuaded. Evy?

POUMPOURAS: You know what, I think of it this one thing. That her husband`s dead body is laying in the living room. You have to ask

yourself, what kind of life style is she living as far as people coming over. That tends to let you know that maybe she`s very isolated, nobody`s

coming into her home so again I tend to go towards mental illness.

PINSKY: Yeah. That fits. It got to be some weird thought disturbance there, where she thinks, the way you paint the picture, there`s - hard to

deny that there`s something -- yeah.

POUMPOURAS: Right.

PINSKY: But I wonder if the Sarah, I have got a tweet from Sarah on Twitter, she says, clearly she is sick. There has to be more to the story,

more to their marriage to make her this delusional. There`s her tweet there. And it is sort of a delusional system she`s operating from where

she`s like you said having tea and watching TV with her husband`s corpse.

POUMPOURAS: Now, I feel sad for laughing. I feel bad.

SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t still. This woman is crazy.

PINSKY: She cashed the checks, guys.

(CROSSTALK)

POUMPOURAS: That`s true. That`s true.

PINSKY: Yeah, don`t feel too bad.

SCHACHER: OK, good.

BROWN: Allegedly. Allegedly? Counselor, thank you. Maybe she`ll hire you. All right, DVR us right now then you go watch this show any time and,

of course, forensic files that follows us and be sure to see us on the after show on Facebook and there`s something very interesting we are going

to discuss that you will see on tomorrow`s show. "Forensic Files" now.

END