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Don Lemon Tonight
Interview With Texas Congressman Michael Burgess; Fear Spreading Faster Than Ebola?; Jake Tapper Traces Roots to Colonial Ancestor
Aired October 15, 2014 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Breaking news, just a short time ago, the second Dallas nurse diagnosed with Ebola arrives in an Atlanta hospital, this as nurses at the Texas hospital where she works are threatening to walk off the job over Ebola concerns.
That nurse, 29-year-old Amber Vinson, just days ago flew on a crowded airplane while having a temperature of 99.5 degrees. Even more disturbing, she alerted the CDC. Why didn't they tell her not to fly? We are going to answer that tonight and talk to the nurse who blew the whistle on allegations of unsafe conditions at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital.
And more breaking news tonight. The president has for a second day canceled his own travel plans to remain at the White House to coordinate the nation's response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want people to understand that the dangers of you contracting Ebola, the dangers of a serious outbreak are extraordinarily low. But we are taking this very seriously at the highest levels of government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Lots of breaking news for you tonight on Ebola, so let's get right to it.
Joining me now is our very own team of experts. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is at Emory in Atlanta, Anderson Cooper at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, and CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest here in New York with me.
Good evening, gentlemen.
Sanjay, you first.
Amber Vinson, the second nurse to contract Ebola, is now at Emory Hospital. She was able to walk off the plane to her ambulance on her own power wearing a hazmat suit. But you are learning some new details about a call she made before boarding her flight to Ohio that we had been talking about. What do you know?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so you remember, Don, she flew from Dallas where she lives to Ohio on October 10, then to Cleveland, and then was flying back on October 13.
Now, remember she had been taking care of Mr. Duncan. She had come in contact with him, obviously, a patient who was known to have Ebola at that point. And when she got on the plane, October 13, before she got on the plane, she took her temperature and it was -- and found it to be 99.5. So she called the CDC at that point to check in and got no guidance about not taking the flight.
She said she was in Cleveland about to board the plane to fly back to Dallas. And they did not tell her not to fly, did not give her any indication that that would be a problem. Surprising, Don, for a few different reasons, not the least of which when Dr. Frieden spoke earlier today, he said that based on the fact that she was self- monitoring because she had been taking care of Mr. Duncan, that she shouldn't have been allowed to fly at all, let alone, you know, get on that plane with a fever or a temperature that was starting to elevate.
Some confusing messages I think there, but, again, she, Amber, seems to have done the right thing checking in with the CDC. Just wasn't given proper guidance.
LEMON: We are going to delve more into that. But my question is, with a temperature of 99.5, what's the likelihood she could give Ebola to someone else?
GUPTA: It's a good question. And it is unlikely with a fever alone. You know, you do look for somebody developing other symptoms someone who as you get sicker, you start to get more and more of the virus into your bodily fluids. And that's when you become more infectious.
I think the risk to public health -- I think the important salient point that you're bringing up -- she didn't seem like she was a big risk to people. But it's just the -- it's the sort of contradictory guidance. Should she have flown, she should not have flown? We are hearing different things.
LEMON: Yes.
Richard, the CDC is now considering changing the temperature threshold from 99.5 to 100.4. But even with that, shouldn't someone there have said, you know what, maybe since you have been in close contact with the person who died from Ebola, you shouldn't get on that plane?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Without doubt.
And what you are seeing tonight and what Sanjay is saying and the facts that we are hearing them is the fog of the situation, the chaos, the confusion, a situation that is not out of control, but where the systems and structures of government are working just running to stay still. They will get ahead of this. It is very surprising that it hasn't happened already.
But this is a classic case here, Don, of what happened with the nurse when she called in.
LEMON: I want to get to Anderson now, because you are in Dallas, where all this is happening, these breaches of protocol. Anderson, they're expecting that there could be more nurses and health care workers who would have been exposed to similar circumstances to these two nurses, correct?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: It is very possible; 76 health care workers at this hospital according to CDC were in some way exposed to Thomas Eric Duncan.
Now two have tested positive. Others are being monitored. How closely they're being monitored obviously the fact that this second nurse, Amber Vinson, was able to get on a plane and fly even after calling the CDC certainly raises question about the whole monitoring process.
But they're certainly now looking at that. I talked to one source tonight who is -- has worked inside this hospital in recent days who describes a lot of concern among the health care workers there and a lot of questions and not a lot of answers, not a lot of obvious protocols that are in place. Certainly, that is something the CDC has been trying to rectify, bringing in more experts, trying to get as many people inside this hospital who actually have experience on the ground working with Ebola, which is something this hospital clearly did not have before Thomas Eric Duncan walked in their doors.
LEMON: So, Sanjay, what is the rationale for bringing Amber Vinson to Emory, where you are? Why not treat her in Texas?
GUPTA: It's a great question and one that I have been sort of trying to get to the bottom of all day long, Don.
First of all, I should point that there is no specific treatment for Ebola. So, it's not like you come to this hospital here behind me where Amber is now and say we have a magic potion, so to speak. That wasn't really what was driving it. There was concern obviously about the fact that were they able to contain Ebola in Dallas? You have two health care workers now that got sick from this one patient.
But what I found most surprising, talking to government officials tonight, was that there is real concern over there according to this official that because of staffing issues, because of furlough issues, because of people perhaps not showing up for work and because of a possible walkout by nurses that they were concerned they simply couldn't take care of another patient with Ebola.
This is a big hospital. Anderson is standing in front of it. It's a big hospital. It's a well-regarded hospital in so many ways. I have colleagues who work there. What I'm describing and what I am hearing about that, that is really concerning and frankly disappointing that that -- the idea that simply staffing the hospital was going to be of concern.
We heard they were on diversion earlier in the week, meaning when they got a call saying, can you take a patient, those patients were actually being diverted away from Texas Presbyterian, saying we are not in position to take these patients at this time.
LEMON: Anderson, he said you're standing right there you. You just mentioned that you spoke to someone inside the hospital. You also spoke with Kent Brantly, who was treated at Emory for Ebola, where Amber Vinson is tonight.
What did he tell you about the care he received at Emory and how it compares to what we are hearing about the Dallas hospital?
COOPER: Well, as you know, he received ZMapp. He's one of only two Americans who have actually received that. He can't say for sure that ZMapp saved his life. He obviously believes faith also played an important role, as he's a missionary doctor.
But certainly he believes ZMapp had a positive impact. There is no more of that. And I also talked to Nancy Writebol, who was also taken care of at Emory earlier. She said she was not sure it was ZMapp that really helped her as much as the follow-on care that she received at Emory, treating all the various symptoms and other issues that come up relating to Ebola, treating if she needs liquids, if she needs fluids, all that kind of stuff that she couldn't get at the hospital in Africa.
Don, I think one of the things that is really stunning -- and Sanjay and I were talking about this earlier, earlier tonight -- is just the lack of transparency coming from this hospital here in Dallas. We have heard really nothing from them about exactly what has occurred here.
You have this nurses union which has come out with pretty shocking and stunning allegations, what they say are reports from other nurses inside this hospital about the lack of protocols. And the hospital really has not addressed that at all in the entire time that this has been going on. And that's not just a question of the media wanting answers. It's a question of giving out information that is going to help other hospitals out there. I'm just stunned at the lack of transparency so far.
LEMON: And, listen, but I do have you tell you that Dr. Daniel Varga, who is the chief senior officer at -- executive vice president of the Texas Health Resources, is going to be speaking tomorrow and we will talk about that,because there has been a response late this evening from the hospital.
COOPER: Right.
LEMON: And they address some of those issues.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Go ahead.
COOPER: He is going to apologize -- he is going to apologize for some of the mistakes that were made and the misinformation that was given out. But they're not actually addressing the very detailed allegations made by that nurses union about -- by the nurses themselves. And I think that's critical for the hospital to come forward about.
LEMON: Absolutely.
I want to ask you this, Richard, because right now Ebola screenings at big international airports around the country -- now 132 people who flew on just that regular Frontier Airlines flight that the nurse, the second nurse flew on, who must be concerned tonight.
QUEST: They will be concerned. They will be rightly concerned, although I think, as Sanjay said, the chances are almost nil of them actually contracting anything.
They will find them. Frontier has got all the information in the reservation system and because of the passenger information we have to get. So, they will find them.
But this is going to -- this is a process where airlines, hotels, hospitals, they're suddenly taken by surprise in these situations. And that's what has to be dealt with.
LEMON: All right, thank you. Thank you, Anderson. Thank you, Richard. And thank you, Sanjay. Stand by, gentlemen.
Our breaking news, Amber Vinson rushed to Emory University Hospital in Atlanta tonight. And, meanwhile, there is unease at Kent State University in Ohio, where she graduated and has a connection to three employees among them, Debra and Kelvin Berry, Amber Vinson's mother and stepfather.
So, joining me now on the phone is Eric Mansfield. He's executive director of media relations for Kent State.
Thank you, sir, for joining us.
Describe Amber Vinson's connection to Kent State. I understand she has a mother and stepfather there.
ERIC MANSFIELD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF MEDIA RELATIONS, KENT STATE UNIVERSITY: Yes, good evening, Don. Thanks for having us on tonight.
Yes, she has a close very connection. First, she's a graduate, having attended the campus and graduated with a degree in 2006 and another in 2008, and then has three close relatives who work full-time on the Kent campus.
Our Kent campus, Don, is 28,000 students and about 5,000 employees. So, it's a very big place. While she was in the area over the weekend, she herself did not come to the Kent campus. But she did interact with her relatives. They returned to the Kent campus to work earlier this week.
But once they learned of her illness in Dallas, they left the campus. Went home. Obviously, they're caring for the family. And going forward to take precautions, they're going to stay away from the campus for 21 days and self-monitor on their own.
LEMON: OK. She never went to the campus, except her family members did. They're not exhibiting any signs of illness right now? Correct?
MANSFIELD: That's correct. They're not exhibiting illness. But we are trying to be open with people that they did interact with her frequently throughout the weekend while she was back in Northeast Ohio and that they did not have symptoms when they came to campus.
But we want everybody to know they were on campus. They're not faculty. None of the three are. So, they're not in classrooms. But certainly they're staff members. They're part of family. And tonight we're concerned about them and certainly concerned about one of our alums who is fighting Ebola now moving on to Atlanta.
LEMON: Mr. Mansfield, have authorities, either local, state, or federal, reached out to Kent state?
MANSFIELD: Yes, we're working closely with the CDC as well as our local and county health departments, and taking guidance from them on how we should move forward.
Since the infected person did not come to the campus and because her relatives were not exhibiting any symptoms, they say the risk to us really is really quite small. But we're going to always do what is best for the Kent State community and take the proper precautions and that involved letting everyone know what we did know and monitoring with the health officials day-to-day.
LEMON: Eric Mansfield is the executive director of media relations at Kent State University. Thank you, sir.
Much, much more to come on our breaking news tonight, Amber Vinson, the second nurse to be diagnosed with Ebola, rushed to Emory University Hospital in Atlanta. We have the latest on her condition.
Plus, fears that nurses at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas may walk out over Ebola concerns. And the Texas congressman who says the CDC is falling down on the job. Also, a heated debate on the Ebola fear factor. How worried should you be tonight?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Breaking news tonight: A top official at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital is apologizing for failing to initially diagnose Thomas Eric Duncan with Ebola, says that the hospital is deeply sorry.
The apology comes in testimony that will be submitted to Congress tomorrow. Meanwhile, there are fears that nurses at the hospital may walk out over Ebola concerns.
So, joining me now is Dr. Lance Plyler, medical director of the missionary organization Samaritan's Purse. He was with Dr. Kenneth Brantly in Liberia when Brantly contracted Ebola. He has since recovered. Also with me is Deborah Burger, a registered nurse who is co-president of National Nurses United, and Dr. Alexander Garza of the Saint Louis University College of Public Health and Social Justice.
Deborah, I think it's important to ask you the first question about this, because this is going to be -- this is being submitted by Daniel Varga and he's the chief clinical officer and senior executive vice president at Texas Health Resources.
He says -- number one, he apologizes and says: "Unfortunately, in our initial treatment of Mr. Duncan, despite our best intentions and a highly skilled medical team, we made mistakes. We did not correctly diagnose his symptoms as those of Ebola. We are deeply sorry."
Also, he says: "The hospital followed all CDC and Texas Department of State and Health Services recommendations in an effort to ensure the safety of all patients, hospital staff, volunteers, nurses, physicians and visitors. Protective equipment included water-impermeable gowns, surgical masks, eye protection and gloves. Since the patient was having diarrhea, shoe covers were added shortly thereafter."
What do you make of that?
DEBORAH BURGER, CO-PRESIDENT, NATIONAL NURSES UNITED: Well, it is one thing to apologize for human error. Nurses understand that. We are all human. We make mistakes.
But it is unforgivable that there was a lack of planning, a lack of preparation and a lack of education. And that's what we heard from the nurses loud and clear when they heroically came forward and talked about the conditions that they had to work under during the time that they were providing care for Mr. Duncan and for Nina.
So, I understand the apology, but we are still angry about the lack of preparation, education and training.
LEMON: Well, did he -- now, is he correct here? Is he telling the truth when he says that protective equipment, including water- impermeable gowns...
(CROSSTALK)
BURGER: According to the nurses that came forward to us, we believe that that is not the case.
LEMON: OK.
Are nurses -- let me get the other reactions, and then I will get back to you.
Dr. Plyler, what do you make of this apology and then saying, but we did provide them with equipment and then we added things after diarrhea and such?
DR. LANCE PLYLER, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, SAMARITAN'S PURSE: Right.
Don, just -- I did spend the better part of the summer in Liberia implementing protocols, setting up, establishing Ebola treatment units, enormous time taking care of patients with Ebola. I'm very accustomed to international standard of protocols.
And I think there is a bar set for what is expected. And I think that we need to be -- all be on the same playing field. We need to utilize the international standard of excellence for implementation of protocols and PPE.
When I was in Liberia, Don, we always very meticulously covered all of our skin. I would never enter an Ebola treatment unit if any skin was exposed. And always when we don and doffed or when we exited -- doffed, when we exhibited the Ebola treatment unit, we always very copiously sprayed with chlorine.
It is simple. We know it kills the virus. And I think those again are in the protocols for international standards.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: That is exactly what is so flabbergasting about this to many people, is that you have a health system here in the United States that is supposed to be among the best in the world, and these precautions that are being taken even in developing countries aren't being followed here.
I want to get to you, Dr. Garza, because here is what the chief is going to say again tomorrow in this apology: "These are lessons learned and steps taken," he says. He says: "Diagnosing Ebola is very different from treating Ebola. Communication is critical, but is no substitute for training. Ebola extends beyond the walls of the hospital."
Dr. Garza?
DR. ALEXANDER GARZA, SAINT LOUIS UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND SOCIAL JUSTICE: Right.
Well, he is not wrong in saying all of that. The diagnosis though was based on the case definition. And, clearly, he met the case definition when he showed up to the hospital the first time. And so I think it is tough to explain that away.
As far as training and the equipment with the nurses goes, clearly even if they met the letter of the law, it seems apparent that these nurses were not adequately protected with their garb to prevent transmission. Well, obviously, they weren't. Two of them are infected now.
I do think, though, that it is a good first step for the hospital now to start addressing a lot of these concerns from the treatment of Mr. Duncan.
LEMON: And, Deborah, according to our Dr. Sanjay Gupta, one of the reasons, if not the main reason, that the nurse want to Emory Hospital in Atlanta is that the nurses were probably there going to maybe leave their posts for fear of Ebola concerns. Are they going to leave their posts?
BURGER: I -- this was actually the first I heard of it just earlier on one of the shows. But, again, what we're saying is, nurses are more than willing to step up to plate to provide safe patient care. But they actually need the equipment, the training, the education and the practice using that equipment, because this can be a life-threatening disease. And it is not fair to ask those nurses not only to put their own lives on the line, but the lives of their family and their loved ones.
So, I was really proud of those nurses that came forward to talk about the conditions that they were working under, because it's unconscionable that they would send those nurses in to provide care for Mr. Duncan with their skin exposed and having to do makeshift wrapping tape around their necks.
So I am proud of the nurses that are trying to get the attention they need to be able to supply safe patient care.
LEMON: And you are looking now at Amber Vinson getting -- going to the hospital in Atlanta there. You see her in the full body suit arriving there by airplane this evening.
BURGER: It is unfortunate. If she had had that protection when she was providing care for Mr. Duncan, she wouldn't have been on that plane now going to get treatment.
LEMON: Thank you. I'm going to invite all of you back.
Lots of breaking news to get to tonight.
Deborah Burger, Dr. Lance Plyler, and also Dr. Alexander Garza.
Is it time to ban travel to and from West Africa? Ahead, I'm going to speak to a congressman who also happens to be a doctor.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Breaking news tonight.
President Obama has canceled scheduled trips tomorrow for the second day in a row. Instead, he's going to remain at the White House for meetings on Ebola.
Joining me now is Congressman Michael Burgess. He's a Republican of Texas. He is also a doctor.
What would you look to see happen now? What should the government be doing?
REP. MICHAEL BURGESS (R), TEXAS: Well, I'll tell you, Don, one of my concerns since we had an earlier hearing at the end of September is there really didn't seem to be anyone in charge.
Remember, back in 9/11, how the concern was from the federal side everyone was siloed and no one was talking to each other? You get that same impression right now. And you also get the same sort of feeling you got right after Katrina, that people are making this up as they go along. You would have thought there would have been an off-the-shelf
preparation that would have been put into place, a plan that has been put into place. But we are asking people on the -- in the trenches back home to be able to deal with the situation that no one in this country has ever had to deal with before, except in very controlled circumstances.
LEMON: You want to see a travel restriction or a travel ban, at least for the moment?
BURGESS: That is correct.
That is actually part of the pandemic plan from 2005 that was amended last July to include Ebola. So, the authority is already there. It just needs to be exercised. And even going back to the bird flu in 2005, it was recognized that migratory pathways would not respect a national border, but still it would allow time to perhaps delay the onset of the illness or the extensive onset of illness in this country, and allow the system a chance to catch up and adapt to it.
LEMON: OK. And speaking of travel...
BURGESS: We -- we -- we're missing that.
LEMON: Yes, speaking of travel, you know, Amber Vinson got on the plane, temperature 99.5 degrees. When she called the CDC, they said it was OK for her to fly. Who is at fault here?
BURGESS: Well, clearly, that information should not have been transmitted back to her. She was right to call. She was right to ask a question, "Hey, I'm in this group. I'm running a low-grade temp. What to do here? I've had this longstanding plan, and I was planning on traveling."
Clearly, the right answer was, "No, ma'am. Do not get on the plane. Let us come to you." And it's unfortunate that it happened that way. And now, of course, as a consequence, instead of the, what, 120 people that were under surveillance, we've now got 160 or more that are under surveillance. And unfortunately, that's how a crisis like this grows and grows out of proportion.
LEMON: I would imagine that you're familiar with Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital. It's just a couple miles away from your district.
BURGESS: Sure.
LEMON: You are a doctor, as well.
BURGESS: I was on the staff there several years ago.
LEMON: You are. And by all accounts, before this, that it was, you know, the hospital that was, you know, gave -- gives great care.
BURGESS: My son was born there. I mean, yes, I have faith in the institution. I was -- a good part of my residency there. And I was on the staff there for several years.
LEMON: What -- so then what are your constituents? What are people saying in your area? About what's happening there? What is the concern level?
BURGESS: Well, they're obviously concerned about what happened at the hospital. And I think you were -- you know, you played the -- the -- or referenced part of the testimony that's going to be given tomorrow.
You know, it's tough. That the guy was sent over to the emergency room when he presented. But that was the first case of active Ebola that ever presented in this country.
Now, the CDC had been telling us for several months that they had people prepared. You saw the president and Dr. Frieden in the middle of September come out and say Ebola is not in this country, but if it shows up we're ready. But the fact of the matter was we weren't.
And where were the protocols that were supposed to be put in place that the CDC then said were breached. Where was the training, and where was the activity?
Look, I have known for some time the healthcare workers who are on the front line, 10 percent of the deaths in Western Africa are healthcare workers.
LEMON: And Congressman, I don't want to get -- not to cut you off. Speaking of people on the front line, I want to get your reaction to this in the short time we have left. CNN has learned that the Obama administration expects to announce tomorrow that the Pentagon will be given the authority to call up reservists to deploy to West Africa to fight the Ebola crisis. Do you think this is a good idea?
BURGESS: Well, you know, I know they need help. And I know they need the infrastructure. But you know what? I would really just like to see a general in charge of the fight in this country. Right now, you have the feeling that no one is actually in charge. And that's a tough feeling with -- with the amount of discomfort and chaos that surround this case.
LEMON: Congressman Michael Burgess, thank you for your time.
BURGESS: Thank you.
LEMON: President Obama says he is absolutely confident the U.S. can prevent a serious outbreak of Ebola. Yet, polls show Americans are scared. But is fear spreading faster than Ebola? We're going to debate that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: There's no question, Ebola here on the rise. And there is a -- more questions every day. Americans are worried. So take a look at this ABC News poll just yesterday. It said 65 percent are concerned about a U.S. epidemic, and 64 percent think the federal government should do more. People are scared. Experts are saying every day, there are too many unknowns. And they're dealing with these problems. So everyone is talking about it.
Who better to discuss this with? Chris Cuomo of "NEW DAY" and Alisyn Camerota of "NEW DAY" now, joining me to talk about the situation.
Should people be scared? Do you think people be scared about this? I do.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CO-HOST, "NEW DAY": You do?
LEMON: Absolutely I do.
CAMEROTA: Why?
LEMON: Because we are always afraid of the unknown. There's just one case; there's just two cases. Everyone starts -- everything starts with one case. This is something that's new to America, and our health officials don't appear to have a handle on it.
So yes, I think, yes, I am scared. And I think people should be scared. Should we be panicked? No.
CAMEROTA: That's interesting, because being in New York, I don't feel it. You know, I am not personally afraid. We're in New York. If I was in Dallas, maybe I would feel differently.
But I will say, it has definitely struck a chord with people. When my friends call me, their husbands get on the phone with me, knowing I'm a newscaster, and say, "What happens with Ebola? What do I need to know?"
LEMON: Yes.
CAMEROTA: People are actually afraid.
LEMON: Yes, but I think people weren't afraid. People weren't afraid if you didn't -- before Dallas. So yes, I'm a little bit concerned about it.
CHRIS CUOMO, CO-HOST, "NEW DAY": Hard not to be. It's getting a ton of attention. It is a lethal virus. And we're getting cases here. But I would question the premise: is it on the rise? I would say no.
We have cases of healthcare workers who are treating someone who is already ill. We don't have family; we don't have friends or anybody in the extended group that's being looked at who's come down with the virus. I don't think it's on the rise.
The chance of an epidemic, you cannot find someone who knows what they're talking about to say that there is any type of realistic chance of an epidemic.
There is a very realistic chance that our government is screwing up again. That they are once again...
LEMON: Not a chance. The government is screwing up.
CUOMO: I'm being generous.
And so what are we responding to? They keep telling us things that aren't true. They keep making mistakes. That can cause panic, inasmuch as it makes you feel you can't trust who you're supposed to trust.
CAMEROTA: I think Chris is onto something, because in reporting on this, what I have become very concerned about is that the CDC is not fully competent to deal with some sort of future, this gets bigger, or a future health crisis. Because they are not living up to even what they say they're tasked with.
CUOMO: I think it goes beyond just the CDC. I think because it was -- they asked about it in the White House briefing today. Whether it was an outbreak or what have you. The president is getting, you know, updates every single day from his national security adviser.
CUOMO: ... a tenacious response. How is this a tenacious response?
LEMON: It's not a tenacious response. And then you listen. Did you hear those nurses?
CAMEROTA: Oh, my God.
LEMON: Can we play that, what I'm talking about?
CAMEROTA: The things that they listed, first I just want to say. The laundry list of things...
LEMON: Right.
CAMEROTA: ... that went wrong at the Dallas Presbyterian Hospital. Because they say there was no protocol. They say that they didn't know what questions to ask.
CUOMO: Keeps changing.
CAMEROTA: The protocol kept changing. They weren't trained on how to get dressed.
LEMON: Medical tape.
CAMEROTA: They had to rely on medical tape. Hold on one second. I just want to say my favorite thing. There was an...
CUOMO: Your least favorite, you mean.
CAMEROTA: My -- the most outrageous.
CUOMO: There you go.
CAMEROTA: They -- there was an optional seminar that they could have taken on how to become trained. Now let's listen to what they say the problem is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DEBORAH BURGER, CO-PRESIDENT, NATION NURSES UNITED (via phone): The nurses raised questions and concerns about the fact that the skin on their neck was exposed. They were told to use medical tape and had to use four to five pieces of medical tape wound around their neck that is not impermeable and has permeable seams.
Nurses had to interact with Mr. Duncan with whatever protective equipment was available at the time when he had copious amounts of diarrhea and vomiting, which produces a lot of contagious fluids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. Healthcare workers on the front lines. Nurses probably more than any one dealing with this. More than anyone. And if they had those worries and concerns, why wouldn't I, as a lay person, not have those worries and concerns?
CUOMO: Here's why. Because they're in a completely different situation.
Now first, assume what we're hearing is accurate, OK. And I think we should. They have every reason to complain. This is unforgivable.
I'll tell you who didn't use any medical tape when they want in to see people who were contagious. Dr. Frieden, the head of the CDC. He wore the full beekeeper outfit, you know.
CAMEROTA: Hazmat suit.
CUOMO: The hazmat suit. He didn't have to worry about tape and all these things. Why do they? Why are they not being given the equipment that they need? They have real fears. And of course, as a testament to their greatness, what do they say? What do we hear from the nurses? "I'm still going to do it. I want to do it, but I want to be safe."
LEMON: Because we are overconfident in our ability to stop this. We are overconfident. And I think the government, I'm not sure if we can rely on the government to be straight with us.
CAMEROTA: Well, we can -- that's what I'm saying.
CUOMO: I think we can, but I think they're not being straight.
CAMEROTA: Well, I think that they're just not living up to what they claim their goals and their mission statement is. I actually thought, what is the CDC tasked with? And today I want to their website. I'd never read it before. And I read what they say their goals are. Let me just -- you guys can rate this on 1 to 10. Tell me...
CUOMO: What's good? What's good, what's bad?
CAMEROTA: ... if you think they're living to their goals. Here's what they said.
CUOMO: Is 10 good or is 1 good? CAMEROTA: Ten is good.
CUOMO: OK.
CAMEROTA: OK. They say here's the CDC's role. Detecting and responding to new and emerging health threats.
CUOMO: OK. What's your number?
LEMON: That's probably about a 4. Right?
CUOMO: Six.
CAMEROTA: Listen to this one: Training the public health work force. That's a zero right now. Maybe not...
LEMON: I'd give them a 3.
CUOMO: I'll give them an 8, and here's why. Because one of the problems here is that the CDC, by law, isn't allowed to tell these states what to do. We have a screwed up mechanism when it comes to health care in this country.
LEMON: That's a whole other problem. That's a whole...
CUOMO: That's one of the reasons why Frieden is saying things that don't seem to be happening, because he can't make them happen.
LEMON: Should -- the thing is, what I'm getting to is that...
CUOMO: You had a judge agreeing with you (ph).
LEMON: Frieden, should he be the one who's in charge? Why isn't there a surgeon general who has -- who says, "Here is the standard protocol for everything"?
CUOMO: I don't think that's what a surgeon general does.
CAMEROTA: No, one person in charge. You know.
CUOMO: That's politics.
LEMON: I agree.
CUOMO: That's politics.
CAMEROTA: ... czar who would be in charge.
CUOMO: There is a need for leadership. We had a county judge talking to us today at the press conference. Not to disrespect the judge. He has a broader jurisdiction than a normal judge, but still. That's who you have in terms of a health crisis. That's your first voice. Didn't look good.
CAMEROTA: I'm telling you, the CDC does not appear to be living up to even what they claim they are tasked with. CUOMO: I agree. That's what I'm concerned about. What I'm not
concerned about is catching Ebola. What I'm not concerned about is an epidemic, and here's why. Just look at the numbers.
The flu. People shake their head, like I get the flu. You get it and you die from it.
LEMON: I understand. You're talking about 59,000 people die...
CUOMO: Did you get a flu shot?
LEMON: Yes, I did. Fifty-nine thousand people died.
CUOMO: Did you get a flu shot?
LEMON: I got a flu shot. I had the little blue bandage here. I did get it. I got a flu shot. I saw you in the makeup room the same day I got a shot when I got.
CAMEROTA: You missed your shot.
LEMON: Stop it. So I understand what you're saying. All these other things that you can die from.
CAMEROTA: And that's valid, right?
LEMON: It is valid. But those things have already been introduced to the American public. We know if you get a flu shot your chances of getting. This is the unknown something new that's introduced.
Very short amount of time. Mortality rate is much higher. And in a very short all.
CUOMO: More people die from it.
LEMON: More people are getting it, that we know about, by percentage. And so the chances of it getting worse for me are, are...
CUOMO: More people are not getting it. It's still healthcare workers. You're not going to get it. God forbid. We're not going to get it. God forbid. You don't want to get it. But it's -- we -- our job is to temper it, not make it worse.
LEMON: We shouldn't panic. We have to run, though. Thank you, guys.
CUOMO: I want to see you get a flu shot.
LEMON: I did get. Come on. Did you get a flu shot?
CUOMO: I did.
LEMON: Don't lie to me.
CUOMO: I gave it to myself.
LEMON: I don't trust you, Cuomo. CUOMO: Take one every day.
LEMON: Especially after seeing that "Roots" thing, you're not to be trusted.
And speaking of that, when we come right back, "Roots: Our Journeys Home." Jake Tapper made a surprising discovery about his family's military history. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All this week, a series called "Roots: Our Journeys Home." CNN anchors are telling the stories of our lives, how we came to be.
Tonight, we're going to take a look at the roots of my colleague, Jake Tapper.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): This is where I'm from, Philly. And it's not just cheesesteaks and Rocky Balboa. Philadelphia is to me very much about America.
Mom and Dad put down roots just around the corner from here, Independence Hall, where the Founding Fathers signed the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. And the truth is, I never really cared that much about my ancestors. Where was I from? The answer was always Philly.
(on camera): My childhood neighborhood still looks as though George Washington slept there. I mean, everything about growing up during that time was Americana, even the names of the sports teams. The 1776ers, the Eagles. American to its core.
(voice-over): My dad's side of the family is Jewish, immigrants from Eastern Europe.
(on camera): Why did Grandmother Tapper and Grandfather Tapper's families leave the old country?
DR. THEODORE S. TAPPER, JAKE TAPPER'S DAD: For a variety of reasons. I think a lot of it was economics.
J. TAPPER (voice-over): My mom's Scotch-Irish, via Canada.
ANNE TAPPER, JAKE TAPPER'S MOM: My parents brought me here when I was 3.
J. TAPPER (on camera): There also was this family myth our side -- your side of the family came to North America and objected to slavery, and so they went to Canada, because there was slavery in the United States.
A. TAPPER: I would like to believe that, but I don't.
J. TAPPER: It's a great -- it's great family lore, though. A. TAPPER: I think they left for other reasons.
J. TAPPER: So looking into those other reasons with Ancestry.com, I would out I have colonial roots. Though it's not exactly what I might have hoped for.
It all starts with my seventh great-grandfather, Englebert Huff, a Norwegian navy man who jumped ship in the U.S. and ended up in Fishkill, New York. So that's where I went to find out more.
He was born sometime in the 1600s, either 1637 or 1687. In Norway, apparently he made quite an impression. He was described later in his life as having been something of a local celebrity for his scholarship and dashing horsemanship.
WILLA SKINNER, LOCAL HISTORIAN: Two hundred families.
TAPPER (voice-over): Willa Skinner here in Fishkill is the local historian, the keeper of the secrets.
(on camera): My seventh great-grandfather, Englebert Huff, was here at some point.
SKINNER: Yes.
J. TAPPER: What can you tell me about him?
SKINNER: All I know is that he farmed and he lived to be the age of 128. Years.
J. TAPPER: One hundred twenty eight?
SKINNER: One hundred and twenty-eight.
J. TAPPER: You believe -- you believe that?
SKINNER: I don't know. I don't know. There's some question about that. When he was about 120 years old, there is a story that he courted a young lady who was 21 years old. I don't know how true that is.
This is a special communion tankard.
TAPPER (voice-over): Huff made such an impression his story is inscribed in this priceless communion tankard that the church still uses.
We searched in vain for Englebert Huff's grave. But we did make another discovery.
SKINNER: The Fishkill church has this record of the family of Englebert Huff.
J. TAPPER: Willa has this record, showing Englebert's grandsons, Paul and Solomon Huff, were involved in the American Revolutionary War, where America's founders were fighting for independence from the British.
(on camera): So Paul Huff...
SKINNER: Joined the British army in 1777.
J. TAPPER: So he was -- he fought in the American Revolution, but...
SKINNER: Yes.
J. TAPPER: ... he fought on the wrong side?
SKINNER: Right.
J. TAPPER: I could not believe it. My ancestors, my colonial ancestors, were on the side of the British. Let me repeat that: the British. The wrong side. My fifth great-grandfather, Solomon Huff, and his brother, Paul, on the wrong side in the American Revolutionary War. It was like poison on my lips.
"When the American Revolutionary War broke out, Solomon continued to work his 200-acre farm without engaging in the conflict. But it became unbearable at the end of the war, resulting in Solomon following the lead of his older brother, Paul, and joining British forces." And then they went to Canada.
So no wonder there aren't that many Huffs in here. They fled to Canada.
SKINNER: They fled.
TAPPER (voice-over): And so we chased Solomon Huff, my great-great- great-great-great-grandfather, seven generations before me, to the Bay of Quinte, where the royalists landed, a three-hour drive from Toronto.
(on camera): I can't relate to it at all. It's so antithetical to who I am. I mean, I admire Solomon staying true to who he is. To side with King George III over -- over Thomas Jefferson and James Madison is crazy to me.
And this is where Paul Huff landed?
PETER JOHNSON, LOYALIST REENACTOR: Yes, with Van Alstine's Associated Loyalists.
J. TAPPER: There was a group, an organized group?
JOHNSON: Yes.
J. TAPPER: These were people who had fought for the British during the war and then were fleeing the colonies?
JOHNSON: For the most part.
TAPPER (voice-over): This is Peter Johnson, a loyalist re-enactor and, it turns out, a distant cousin of mine. (on camera): Why are people so proud to be descendants of loyalists?
JOHNSON: If you happen to favor a constitutional monarchy, you're proud to say your ancestors supported the king.
J. TAPPER: But I guess that's my question. Why would anybody, as opposed to a thriving democracy and a republic, why would anybody want to have a monarchy?
JOHNSON: Well, at the time of the revolution, it was very unclear what direction things were going to go.
TAPPER (voice-over): But we all know how things turned out with independence and all. But Canada still has a relationship with the royal family.
The Huffs were a family of faith. We met up with historian Cathy Staples at old Hay Bay Church, the first Methodist church in Canada. After fleeing the Revolutionary War, Solomon had to restart his life, and this church played a big role.
(on camera): So one of my ancestors, Solomon Huff, his brother was Paul. Paul fought for the British.
CATHY STAPLES (PH), HISTORIAN: Yes.
J. TAPPER: He came here. This was his land?
STAPLES (ph): Yes, it was. He was given 200 acres. He donated the corner of his land to build the church.
J. TAPPER: It sounds like this was really the frontier. Where there was not a lot of amenities, not like there were in the 1700s anyway.
STAPLES (ph): No.
J. TAPPER: But there were not a lot of amenities. It was a tough life for...
STAPLES (ph): Extremely.
J. TAPPER: ... for tough people. You had to be tough.
STAPLES (ph): And they had left an organized way of life in the colonies.
J. TAPPER: The winters up here must have been brutal.
STAPLES (ph): Some didn't make it through the first winter.
TAPPER (voice-over): But those tough Huffs managed to thrive here. This marker across the street remembers Solomon and Paul.
(on camera): "True to king and country." Coming from America, this isn't something to brag about in America. These guys were on the wrong side. They did not want independence. STAPLES (ph): That's right.
J. TAPPER: That's what you just said. They did not want independence.
STAPLES (ph): That's exactly it.
J. TAPPER: We have an Independence Day in America.
(voice-over): It's still all so weird to me, raised in Philadelphia, the birthplace of our nation, during the Bicentennial. How could this be my roots?
These walls, put up by my family, tell a story I never expected to find. And it turns out, neither did Mom or Dad.
(on camera): How do you feel having -- having these folks in our history?
A. TAPPER: I asked my mother about it. She pointed out that I was directly descended from somebody who was loyal to the crown. But I didn't tell anyone.
J. TAPPER: It's a little bit -- it's a little bit embarrassing. It really is.
A. TAPPER: Yes. I thought so, too.
J. TAPPER: I know this isn't your part of the tree. When you look at the Huffs, you don't think loyalists?
T. TAPPER: They were traitors to the American Revolution. And I am a supporter of the American Revolution.
J. TAPPER: For the record, Mom and I are, too. Supporters of the American Revolution. Just so we have that established.
(voice-over): Finally it was another war that helped me sort this all out in my own mind. Long before the U.S. joined the battle, the Canadians were fighting in World War II, including descendants of the Huffs. Like my mom's father and her Uncle Edwin Paul Metier (ph), who died on a bombing raid over German-occupied territory in 1943. They were on the right side.
(on camera): So, I guess, with this perspective of looking back at the Huffs through the prism of World War II, it does make some sense. I have my history and I have my piece. I can be proud of where I came from.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Joining me now is Mr. Jake Tapper, the anchor of CNN's "THE LEAD" and our chief Washington correspondent.
So Jake, it sounds like your mom knew all along about this. And she was holding out on you. J. TAPPER: That's right to a degree. She didn't know all the details
of Solomon and Peter Huff and their being chased out of the colonies and fleeing to Canada. But she had heard that there was someone in the background that had been loyal to King George. I suspect she didn't dig too hard.
I did not -- she did not tell me about it until I began on this exciting project that we've all gotten to do.
LEMON: So was it a real blow? It seems like it was a real blow to you.
TAPPER: It was a little disappointing. I'm very proud of my, half- Canadian heritage. They're wonderful people. And my grandfather fought against the Nazis in World War II with the royal Canadian Navy, and my great-Uncle Edwin died with the Royal Canadian Air Force fighting the Nazis.
But this part of the Canadian heritage, where they were loyal to a monarchy over a democracy, aristocrats over a government of the people by the people for the people, yes, that, I don't -- I don't dig that very much. That wasn't -- that wasn't fun to hear about.
LEMON: So you did know about it. Just not to this extent.
J. TAPPER: No, I had no idea.
LEMON: Talking about your Canadian roots, I mean.
J. TAPPER: Canadian roots. Yes -- no, no.
But while we were doing this investigation with Ancestry.com I found out more about my Canadian roots than I ever knew about. Like I found out my grandfather's grandfather had been mayor of Winnipeg. His name was David Dyson. He was only mayor of Winnipeg for four days. He was taken out in a recount. But that was interesting to find out. I found out one of my mom's cousins was one of the first female Royal Canadian Mounties. So that was kind of exciting, too.
Yes, I knew all about the Canadian background. But we dug a little bit deeper, some of it fun to find out. One particular part not so fun.
LEMON: Jake Tapper, welcome back to America. We appreciate it.
J. TAPPER: Thank you. It's good to be here. Good to be here.
LEMON: "Roots: Our Journeys Home." The two-hour special premieres Tuesday, 9 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. Make sure you tune in.
And make sure you stay tuned for our breaking news coverage on the latest in the Ebola outbreak. It continues right now with CNN's Anderson Cooper. He is live in Dallas -- Anderson.