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Second Nurse Flew One Day Before Ebola Diagnosis; Allen: Goal Is To Stop ISIS "Tactical Momentum"; Dempsey: We Gave Iraq A Chance, They Failed; Who's In Charge Of Ebola Response In U.S.?

Aired October 15, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Dallas, Texas, really ground zero now for Ebola as yet another 20 something American nurse has fallen victim to the deadly virus while treating Thomas Eric Duncan.

Now we're learning, and here she is 29-year-old Amber Vincent. Now we are learning she took a commercial flight back to Texas just a day before being diagnosed. Officials today saying she should not have been on that plane. That was against CDC protocol.

And the risk of exposing those 132 passengers on her flight to Ebola at least is low, but we know they are trying to track down each and every one of those individuals.

Let me bring in prominent "Dallas Morning" radio talk show host, Mark Davis. Mark Davis, welcome. Thanks for coming on.

MARK DAVIS, DALLAS RADIO TALK SHOW HOST, "600 AM THE ANSWER" (KSKY): Hi, Brooke. My pleasure.

BALDWIN: I can only imagine the phone call after phone call that you're receiving on your show and I know the news about Amber Vincent jumping on that plane, you know, to Cleveland came out after your show, but are you hearing anything about how folks in Dallas are reacting to that at all?

DAVIS: Yes. As long as there's such a thing as Twitter and Facebook, I never have to wait until the following morning's show. This morning, we were talking about Amber this morning before we knew who she was.

Then the afternoon comes and we now know who she was, and the first inclination for people around here, as well as around the entire country, is to pray for her as we have Nina Pham as we did for Mr. Duncan.

But now upon learning this, I don't want to say it's mixed feelings right there we still want her to get well, but I think collectively as a community we would like to go excuse me, what in the world are you doing getting on a plane.

Dr. Frieden at the CDC is finally showing some willingness to deliver some harsh truth to people suggesting that anybody who is in close contact with Mr. Duncan maybe you don't need be in public transportation. How does this happen. It's part of the crisis in confidence that we're having around here. It goes alongside the health crisis.

BALDWIN: You want to give this nurse, bless her for treating this patient as long as she did really in the thick of it and I'm sure it was quite messy and quite ugly, but a lot of people asking how this happened.

Also, just of all the different tweets and everything you're hearing from folks in Dallas, what is question or concern number one?

DAVIS: Are public officials from the CDC on down to our county folks shooting straight with us. The early chapters of this drama were not good. We were told at every level we got this. We absolutely know how it's transmitted. Don't worry. Go about your lives.

Now we got seemingly new information coming in all the time. We're not panicking in the streets with flaming pitchforks or anything, but we are wondering if maybe there's either a political or attitudinal agenda that is suppressing honestly.

We don't want to stigmatize the whole part of the world like Africa. We don't want to tell 70 or 80 people that you have to go into lock down quarantine because you are one person away from a nurse. We don't like to do that. It messes up people's lives.

But listen, sometimes you have to make hard choices in public health and we're wondering here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area if people are willing to make those hard choices.

BALDWIN: I know people are getting this phone call. I know Mark if you got this. Let me play this quick sound. This is, you know, in order to get the word out to people in Dallas, they are getting this call. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Please be advised that a health care worker who lives in your area has tested positive for the Ebola virus. This individual is in the hospital and is isolated. Precautions are already in place to clean all known potential areas of contact to ensure public health.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I mean, you talk about wanting straight shooting from, you know, federal government all the way down the Dallas level, but I did hear even the mayor of Dallas was knocking on doors trying to tell folks, this is what you need to know.

DAVIS: Yes. This was something, I mean, as I started my show at 7:00 this morning it was already a five or six-hour old story. The County Judge Clay Jenkins and the mayor of Dallas, Mike Rawlings, were joining other city and county employees not just with those reverse 911 calls that started this morning about 6:45 local time but with actual door knock and handing out leaflets.

You know, people like that. I mean, we rather have that happen than have it not happen. It's going to be a great shock. There were some people who said they were awakened by the helicopter blades from all the TV news crews. Tell us what's going on.

I mean, shoot straight with us rather than falsely artificially comfort us with almost an arrogant overconfidence in the facts. We're all on a learning curve here together.

BALDWIN: Absolutely. That's not just what folks in Dallas want. I'm sure that's what people want all across the country. Mark Davis, thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it.

DAVIS: Thank you, Brooke. My pleasure.

BALDWIN: Just ahead, as we are hearing these breaking developments, the CDC under fire for the response to these new reports of these nurses contracting Ebola. Who is really in charge here? We'll talk about why officially there is no surgeon general in that seat currently.

Plus, breaking news in the war against ISIS, one of the president's top military advisers just made a significant comment about the terrorist group's momentum. We'll share that with you next.

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BALDWIN: Let's talk about the battle against ISIS, how is it going? What is the state of play right now? That answer depends on who you ask. We've heard the White House say thus far it's a success.

And now a new admission from the man heading up the war, General John Allen, saying, despite the strikes, they are retaining, quote, "tactical momentum," particularly Anbar Province. This is Baghdad's backyard, which has now been largely overrun by ISIS militants, who now control an estimated 80 percent.

These pictures here, this is the first we've seen of the militant who are now in control of one of the largest air bases they have since gone on to target another. Iraqi Security Forces cutting and running. This is a chorus of U.S. officials continue to insist Baghdad not in danger.

Jim Sciutto, chief national security correspondent, joining me now, and Jim Sciutto, you just got out of a news conference with General John Allen. What did he say?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me tell you. It's a pretty remarkable admission from the president's point man for the fight against ISIS to say as you said, Brooke, that ISIS maintains the momentum in Anbar Province just to the west of Baghdad, within striking distance of Baghdad especially considering all the resources, all the fire power that the U.S. and the coalition are devoting there. The airstrikes certainly, but also additional steps in recent weeks including the use of Apache helicopters, attack helicopters, low flying, slow flying helicopters at greater risk and the thousands of Iraqi troops fighting ISIS there. Have a listen to how General Allen described the situation there.

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JOHN ALLEN, SPECIAL PRESIDENTIAL ENVOY FOR GLOBAL COALITION TO COUNTER ISIS: I would be careful about assigning a winner or a loser. We had come in early along with the intention that the airstrikes were to buy white space to impede the tactical momentum of ISIL.

And that, in fact, has occurred in some areas. They still retain some tactical momentum in other areas. That's to be expected. We're only new into this strategy. We're only new into the use of airstrikes. As I said in some areas, Amerli, Mosul Dam, Haditha, those airstrikes were very helpful.

We're actually focusing, obviously around Kobani providing airstrikes to provide humanitarian assistance and relief there obviously to give some time to the fighters to organize on the ground. In the Anbar Province, our hope is to stop or halt that tactical initiative and momentum that they have there.

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SCIUTTO: He's right to say, it is early, Brooke, but you're still a number of months, two months into the campaign in Iraq, more than two weeks in Syria and an enormous amount of fire power, enormous number of countries involved here.

They are claiming some victories, pulling back the Haditha Dam, the Mosul Dam, key pieces of infrastructure from ISIS control in Iraq, protecting the town of Amerli, up by the Kurdish controlled areas. But if you're losing Anbar, that's not a good sign as to how effective the strategy has been so far.

BALDWIN: So from the words of one general to the next, Jim Sciutto, thank you. We have also now heard from General Martin Dempsey, sat down with Kyra Phillips about whether this strategy, which Jim Sciutto speaks, will change and if he sees the need for American combat troops. That's next.

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BALDWIN: In U.S.-led war on ISIS this week, more bombs dropped in a single day since this assault began, but moments ago, we heard the sobering statement from the man heading up this mission, ISIS, quote, "were retaining tactical momentum."

But let me bring in CNN investigative correspondent, Kyra Phillips, who just a short time ago sat down for an exclusive interview with chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Martin Dempsey.

And Kyra Phillips, he told you first, before anyone else, the name of the mission "Inherent Resolve." You pushed him about strategy. You pushed him about ground troops. Kyra, what did he say?

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, Brooke, the general told me the mission's name, "Inherent Resolve." He says that means that they will be credible and sustainable over time, a long period of time, it looks like.

General Dempsey also told me he's confident that Baghdad will not fall. Now as we know, ISIS is just miles from Baghdad's airport. However, when the Apache Hilos that we talked about were sent in, Dempsey said that that actually gave them, quote, "tactical glimpses" into what the enemy was doing, its formations, how it was operating.

Well, could that lead to U.S. combat troops moving in? Here you go.

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PHILLIPS: Apache helicopters have joined the fight against ISIS, so at what point do you say to the president, sir, I now recommend U.S. combat forces on the ground.

GENERAL MARTIN DEMPSEY, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: Yes. As I said a moment ago war is discovery and I haven't discovered that point yet. I can't foresee a circumstance where I would see the introduction of units of U.S. combat forces taking control of swaths of Iraq.

But, I could see foresee a case where the advisers that we have -- we have 12 advisory teams there now. Yesterday, we got a significant commitment from other coalition members to add advisory teams. We're going to set up three training bases where we can, you know, give this offensive capability to the Iraqi Security Forces.

I can foresee that leading to some point on the ground where I say, Mr. President we really need a forward air control in this particular mission for this purpose, but I can't foresee a case where we should reintroduce large ground combat forces into Iraq.

But, again, war is discovery. ISIL is a national security threat. If we get to that point, I'll make the recommendation.

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PHILLIPS: So, Brooke, how did the U.S. even get to this point? How did ISIS spread across Iraq taking over all these key cities? General Dempsey blames the Iraqi government and its incompetence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: I spoke with a soldier that I've known for more than a decade, and he lost both his legs in Iraq and I told him I was sitting down with you and he said, I asked him what he thought about what's going on with ISIS.

And he said what I'm witnessing makes me sick, not because I got my legs blown off. I was a good soldier. I did my job. I was sent there to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, and I did. So how did our leadership allow these animals to come back stronger and more inspired after we gave so much blood? What do you say to him?

DEMPSEY: Well, what I say to him is that we, he, in particular through the great sacrifices he made and his family, we gave Iraq a chance, an opportunity. They didn't -- they failed to take that opportunity.

I -- I have believed that since the day I left there myself, and you know, the coaching and teaching and mentoring, the thousands of interactions at the local level were all wasted by the government of Iraq that chose deliberately to follow a sectarian agenda and alienate entire segments of the population, which created an environment in which ISIL could return and could flourish.

As we go back into this conflict this time, we need to see genuine progress on the part of the Iraqi government. That's an assumption of the campaign plan. If that assumption proves invalid then we will have to adjust our tactics.

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PHILLIPS: Now the president said that the U.S. underestimated ISIS, and I wanted to drill down on that with the general, and I asked him who underestimated ISIS, the White House, Pentagon, intelligence community.

Well, Dempsey told me that he's been watching ISIS since the time it was al Qaeda, Brooke, talking about the risk in their counterterrorism meetings every single months and an intel officer even warned them back in February that ISIS would re-enter Iraq.

What he says is that they all missed the fact that the Iraqi security forces were unwilling to stand up and fight the terrorists.

BALDWIN: That was also an excellent question from that soldier. I've been wondering how these men and women who have been over there and sacrificed so much how they feel about all of this right now. Kyra Phillips, we'll watch for much more of your interview throughout the evening here on CNN. Thank you so much.

Coming up next, more on the cases of Ebola here in the United States as we are now learning, here she is. That second nurse now infected. She did take a commercial flight to Cleveland and back from Dallas after treating that patient who died.

Who is in charge of this whole Ebola response nationwide, the efforts to control this? Did you know there is actually no surgeon general currently? And my next guest says the reason for that, the NRA. That's next.

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BALDWIN: One angle of this whole Ebola story that's caught our attention, Senator John McCain wondering right here on CNN, why there is no government point person, no czar for Ebola.

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SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I would say that had we don't know exactly who's in charge. There has to be some kind of czar. Americans have to be reassured here and I don't think we are comforted by the fact that we were told there would never be a case of Ebola in the United States and obviously, that's not correct.

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BALDWIN: Just to update that, not too long ago, hearing the White House daily briefing, they were asked about plans for appointing a czar and so far this spokesperson is saying that they have full confidence in the director of the CDC.

What about a surgeon general? Shouldn't he be in charge or she? Here to talk about that, columnist, Michael Hiltsic, who wrote about this very issue in the "L.A. Times" and A.B. Stoddard, associate editor of "The Hill." Welcome to both of you.

And Michael, let me just begin with you because I heard about your piece days ago, and I wanted to talk to you because you make this point, I don't know how many Americans are aware. There is no surgeon general. This would be the point person and you say there is one very specific group to blame for that.

MICHAEL HILTZIK, BUSINESS COLUMNIST, "L.A. TIMES": That's right. It's the National Rifle Association. We know that President Obama nominated a surgeon general back in November that was to succeed the previous surgeon general who had resigned in mid-year.

He was Dr. Vivek Murthy of Harvard. He was nominated in November and in February, the NRA dug up a number of statements he had made basically expressing the viewpoint that gun control was a public health issue.

They found that unacceptable and wrote letters to Senator Harry Reid and Senator Mitch McConnell and they said, Dr. Murthy is not acceptable for them and that basically quashed his nomination really up to today so we don't have a surgeon general.

BALDWIN: So because A.B. Stoddard, we do not have a surgeon general, if one existed what would one be doing about all of this Ebola right now? Would there be a big difference?

A.B. STODDARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, "THE HILL": Well, that's a very interesting question because you heard at the briefing today, Josh Earnest, Lisa Monaco, who is the Homeland Security adviser to President Obama is coordinating the response, but is not in charge.

The publication just reported yesterday there is actually someone who has this job. She is an assistant secretary at the Health and Human Services Department. Her name is Dr. Nicole Lowery and she is the assistant secretary for preparedness and response for public health emergencies. She's nowhere to be found and at the same time President Obama we know has the attention of the world right now. He can comment and say Congress is preventing the confirmation of Dr. Murthy, but he's not doing it because there are Democrats running for re-election in states.

BALDWIN: Politics.

STODDARD: So I think ultimately for President Obama, the public will blame him no matter what. Even if he gets rid of the CDC director, Dr. Frieden, the public will blame the administration for the Ebola response.

BALDWIN: Let me stay with you, A.B., on the issue of politics. We know there are conservatives who are calling for the chief of the CDC, Dr. Tom Frieden to resign and when you look at what's happened with Veterans Affairs and Secret Service, do resignations really ever solve anything?

STODDARD: No. And it would be difficult, as I said, at this point, you look at a lot of nominations of this administration are stalled and they can't even replace the attorney general right now because the politics are so toxic trying to get somebody else through.

So at this point, even if they wanted Dr. Frieden to step down, who would they choose? What would the scrutiny of that person be? And at this point, the blame game is probably a waste of time.

And so I think you will see the administration continue like they said they have (inaudible) to resist any kind of efforts to replace him.

BALDWIN: That's what we heard, full confidence in Dr. Frieden. Michael, 30 seconds, your final thoughts on all of this?

HILTZIK: Well, look, I think the point about the surgeon general is that the surgeon general of the United States is the public face of public health. Whoever that is wouldn't be in charge of this effort, but would be out there calming the American public, putting all of this in perspective.

That's very important in this particular incident. That's what we're not getting. We're not getting any perspective on how important Ebola is or what other public health issues really need to be addressed. That's really what we're lacking and what we should have.

BALDWIN: Calm would go a long way. Michael Hiltzik of the "L.A. Times" and A.B. Stoddard of "The Hill," thank you both very much.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me. See you back here tomorrow. Meantime, "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.