Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

CDC Cleared Ebola Nurse to Fly with a Fever; Dallas Hospital Nurses May Walk Out; Health Emergency on Spain Flight; Ebola Link to Wall Street Woes?; Reservists Could Join Ebola Fight

Aired October 16, 2014 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: See you, guys. Have a great day.

NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Happening now in the NEWSROOM.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The second health care worker Amber Vinson was moved from Dallas to Emory University in Atlanta.

CABRERA: The second nurse sick with Ebola starts treatment this morning, days after taking a commercial airline flight from Ohio to Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no way she should have been on that flight.

DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, CDC DIRECTOR: She should not have traveled on a commercial airline.

CABRERA: Why didn't the CDC stop her and was she contagious?

Now the hunt is on for the other passengers on that plane.

Plus Texas nurses threatening to walk off the job.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is unforgivable that there was a lack of planning, a lack of preparation, and a lack of education.

CABRERA: As the CDC director heads to the hill for a grilling, should the agency have been better prepared?

And CNN presses the White House.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You seem to be reluctant to say who is in charge of the federal response to Ebola.

CABRERA: As the president cancels events to monitor Ebola's spread.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are monitoring, supervising, overseeing in a much more aggressive way.

CABRERA: Let's talk, live in the CNN NEWSROOM. (END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Good Thursday morning to you. I'm Ana Cabrera in for Carol. Thanks again for being here. We have a lot of moving parts to this Ebola story this morning.

It's a race now to stop this deadly virus from spreading further and we are monitoring the World Health Organization's press conference happening now on Ebola.

You're looking at live pictures out of Geneva this morning where officials are discussing how countries all around the world should be preparing for this virus and just how much help is still needed in West Africa.

Also, one day after that nurses' union slammed the Dallas hospital for being unprepared and lacking proper protocol, the groups call for action is growing louder. So next hour National Nurses United will hold another press conference to discuss the equipment and the training they think they need and health -- health care workers need to put their lives on the line.

All of this as the embattled CDC chief goes head-to-head with lawmakers on Capitol Hill. This is going to happen later today. Thomas Frieden will face direct questions about how an infected nurse could who treated Ebola patient Thomas Duncan was allowed to fly after she reported a fever.

This morning, we are covering the story from all angles, like only CNN can, with our full team of experts. We begin in Atlanta where that second nurse, Amber Vinson, is now being treated for Ebola. She was transferred to Emory University Hospital yesterday to one of the nation's four biocontainment units after concerns there may not be enough medical staff in Dallas especially if nurses walk out.

But the same hospital is still treating another infected nurse, Nina Pham. Both women had contact with the Ebola patient who died last week.

Let's bring in CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, first, how is Vinson doing this morning? Any word on her condition?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we heard that she got here late last night. She's in this building here just behind me. The same place Dr. Kent Brantly and Nancy Writebol were cared for and we heard this morning as well the same team that cared for them, five physicians, 21 nurses, make up that team, and they sort of rotate around, you know, to provide care all the time to them. But it's those 26 people that make up that core team.

We're going -- we're expecting an update. We saw her walk off the airplane as you may have seen, Ana, on to the ambulance, a good sign, but even as of this morning they say they're still settling in, getting more data and maybe have an update later on this morning. CABRERA: I want to go back to that video, Sanjay, showing Vinson

being transferred and you can see in this video that, you know, most people here around her are wearing hazmat suits but when you look carefully again that guy there on the end, he's not wearing any protective gear.

Why would he be allowed so close to this patient that we now know has Ebola and was infected from another Ebola patient at this hospital? Why wouldn't he be wearing that specialized protective gear?

GUPTA: Well, you know, that obviously looks confusing and, frankly, you know, it's a metaphor for I think a lot of what has happened here. People look at an image like that and it's just confusing to them. They don't know what to make of it.

Sort of strictly speaking if someone is more than three feet away from someone who is infected with Ebola, they should be fine because this is not an airborne disease. But why are people who are closer than that wearing hazmat suits or this person is not, you know, it is confusing but strictly speaking I can't tell exactly how far away he is but he shouldn't be within that particular zone.

CABRERA: One complaint all along has been not enough consistency across the board when it comes to that protective gear for health workers. What is the CDC saying about that?

GUPTA: I think we're going to hear some changes in the guidelines specifically.

You know, Ana, remember, you and I talked about this yesterday. I did a demonstration of exactly what the protocol was for health care workers when they're taking care of a patient with Ebola, and when showing that, you know, it was easy to see that there are areas, for example, the skin that were not protected. My neck, for example, not protected under those strict protocols that I was following and that's a problem.

And I think that you're going to see some changes in those guidelines and maybe make it more uniform. They have to balance this to be fair, Ana. They don't want to make it too complicated. The more steps you add to the garb, the more chances for error. On the other hand, protecting the skin from bodily fluids potentially getting on it is a very basic core concept.

CABRERA: And protecting the spread, we're talking this morning about a woman who had contact with Thomas Duncan. She was supposed to be self-monitoring, she ended up on the airplane.

Let's talk about what self-monitoring even means. Are people who are under self-monitor conditions, are they allowed to leave their house? Are they going to work typically?

GUPTA: Yes. Let me try and be precise about this. So someone who is self-monitoring and they're not sick, they're asked to take their temperature for 21 days. 21 days, because if you don't have an infection, then you're not going to have it. If you don't have it within the first 21 days. That's where that number comes from. But they can still move around because they're not a threat to the general public.

However, there is something known as a controlled movement recommendation. Dr. Frieden talked about this yesterday, but it basically says people who have come in contact with someone with Ebola they can get in cars, they could fly on a charter plane but they should not be flying on a commercial flight. So not only should she have not taken the flight back from Cleveland to Dallas, sounds like under the CDC recommendations she should not have taken the first flight as well.

We don't know that she was ever told any of this, Ana, so she may not have done anything at all wrong here but that -- that's sort of the guidance that the CDC provides.

CABRERA: And yet, Sanjay, you were reporting that she's apparently called CDC or other health care officials before boarding that flight in Texas or to come back to Texas from Cleveland to say I have a low- grade fever and they did not tell her not to fly.

GUPTA: Yes. Another metaphor for that confusion, Ana. I mean, so on one hand there is this controlled movement recommendation. She should not have gotten on a plane in the first place. On the other hand, she calls because she sees she's developed a little bit of a temperature, up to 99.5, makes the call, smart thing to do, and -- tells them that she's in Cleveland and going to be flying to Dallas, and they don't do anything to stop her.

So she's probably not a big risk. She's not a risk to the passengers on that plane certainly because she wasn't really sick beyond that temperature, low-grade temperature, but still, it violated their own recommendation. So there is another part of the problem there.

CABRERA: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks for being there. We know you're working every hour.

And as we mentioned just briefly there are concerns now that nurses in Dallas might walk out the job, they might walk off after allegations that the hospital isn't doing enough to keep workers safe there.

Listen to what one nurse who works in Dallas said after being asked whether she would feel comfortable being treated there if she contracted Ebola.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN AGUIRRE, NURSE, TEXAS HEALTH PRESBYTERIAN HOSPITAL: You know, I've played that situation out in my head, and knowing what I know, I would try anything and everything to refuse to go there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: She would try anything and everything to refuse to be treated at her hospital.

Let's bring in senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen, she's live in Dallas this morning.

Elizabeth, the hospital I know just issued a new statement this morning addressing some of the specific allegations from that long conference call that we played for our viewers yesterday. What is the hospital now saying?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The hospital is saying, Ana, that these allegations do not match the medical record and they said that they have met and exceeded at times all CDC guidelines.

CABRERA: And specifically, what do they point out?

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: Right, so they pointed out that they were wearing the equipment, people were wearing the equipment, that the CDC recommends, that they were following all of the proper procedures. They deny that -- you know, they say tape was not wrapped around the nurse's necks. They say that the tubing system that the specimens are sent through, that when that tubing system was used, that things were sealed up and that later that tubing system wasn't used, but they say that, you know, they were doing all the right things.

CABRERA: I want to listen to another portion of that interview because she says nurses had suspicions Duncan may have been infected and yet no one did anything to isolate him. So let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AGUIRRE: He was put into an area where there are up to seven other patients. We took probably around three hours to make our first contact with the CDC to even let them know that what we had as our suspicion. You know, there was no special precautions other than what we know in the medical industry to be, you know, basic contact precautions.

We were unprepared in the sense that we did not know what to do with his lab specimens. They were mishandled. And that's what the lab technician told me. And it was just a little chaotic scene.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So why wouldn't they isolate Duncan immediately to limit the exposure?

COHEN: You know, I think it depends on whether or not they recognize that he had Ebola. I mean, when he came in, in the beginning, it sounds like they were trying to figure this out.

You know, I've talked about these issues with safety experts and I got to tell you, none of this surprises them. I mean, safety is a huge problem in American hospitals. I mean, put Ebola for a side a minute, even without Ebola, safety is a problem. Infection control measures are not always put in. One in 25 patients in this country gets an infection in the hospital. In other words, they come in without an infection and the hospital gives them an infection.

That's one in 25 patients. That tells you that patient safety is not up to where it should be. You know, I asked a patient safety -- hospital safety expert, you know, what happened here at Presbyterian? Do you think that would happen at other places? And he said oh, yes, I think this would happen at most other American hospitals. Only a relatively small percentage really know how to do it right.

CABRERA: We heard that same statement or at least phrasing from Dr. Van Tulleken right here on our air yesterday as well. Now we do know the CDC is trying to be more proactive, is considering lowering the temperature threshold for what one would consider a sign of Ebola. We know that this nurse who is the second nurse to be infected had a 99.5 degree fever but there was a 100.4 degree threshold at the time that says you -- you know, technically have an Ebola symptom. So how might this impact people who are self-monitoring now?

COHEN: Right, so folks who are self-monitoring, which by the way includes me because I was in Liberia within the past 21 days. You know, if one of us was to get a temperature of -- as we saw, of like even 100 degrees, technically a health authority would say, don't worry about it. You got to get up to 100.5 for us to worry about Ebola.

And I think what they're realizing now is that having this sort of cut and dry number, this cutoff, may not make the most sense. If someone has been in West Africa recently and they are inching up, you know, they were, let's say 97, and now they're 98, and now they're 99, you know, they might be headed somewhere, so don't be so sort of small- headed about it, don't just look at what's written in a book.

Use your head and think through it. If someone's 99.5 and they were taking care of an Ebola patient and we know that they weren't using proper protection, they'll let them get on a plane.

CABRERA: All right, Elizabeth Cohen, thanks so much.

Breaking news now out of Spain, we are now learning a possible Ebola patient, another one, has been admitted to a hospital there.

Let's get out to our Al Goodman in Madrid.

Al, what do you know at this point?

AL GOODMAN, CNN MADRID BUREAU CHIEF: Well, the hospital is confirming that a new patient has come in. This is one of the 68 people who was considered low-risk because this person, we're not sure who it is, had had contact with the nurse's aide, Teresa Romero, who's the only confirmed case.

Now this person was among the 68 people out of hospital, being monitored, temperature taken a couple of times a day, and the -- this person showed up with a fever this morning and has come into the hospital. The hospital confirms it's someone on the Ebola watch has come in this day and just a few minutes ago we saw the ambulance coming out, an ambulance coming out with the drivers in the hazmat suits.

Now there's another case at this hour and we're not sure what's happening with this other person. There was a man on a flight from Paris to Madrid, an Air France flight who has been taken off because of fever. We're not sure if that person is also coming to this hospital -- Ana.

CABRERA: Real fast before I let you go, Al, do you know there in Spain, curious to see how it's comparing to the response here in the U.S. Are the people who are there are monitoring, self-monitoring or are they being quarantined?

GOODMAN: There are 15 people in hospital until -- the numbers may be changing but basically this morning we started with Teresa Romero, the only confirmed case. She's on the sixth floor, completely isolated. Fifteen other people including her husband but mainly medical people who were working close to her, she's on a medical team, who voluntarily came to hospital so that they wouldn't possibly potentially infect their families.

They came here, 66 other people or 68 other people out of hospital who chose to stay out, but all of them being monitored, temperature taken, being visited by medical personnel.

Spain, after what many described as a chaotic start to this crisis last week, really trying to get on top of it with help from experts from Europe and close contact with the United States -- Ana.

CABRERA: All right. Al Goodman in Madrid, thank you.

It has been a tough week on Wall Street as well this week. Investors may be feeling afraid, probably very afraid now after the big slide yesterday but what are those fears really all about? Are they related to Ebola? Are there other factors at play?

CNN's Christine Romans is joining me just ahead of the open on Wall Street.

And how are futures looking right now?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Future doesn't look like. It doesn't look like it's going to be a good morning. Big losses in European markets, European stock markets. You had big losses in Asian markets, all of the fear following through to global stock markets.

I mean, a lot of this is predictable. You had a Dow Jones Industrial Average and S&P 500 stocks that have been going up straight basically for two years.

A correction is something that's healthy and natural. A correction is when it comes 10 percent -- falls 10 percent. We're not there yet but another couple big days and you'll have a 10 percent loss over the past month or so.

You know, it's interesting, Ana, because Ebola is one of those uncertainties. Markets don't like uncertainty but there's also slowing global growth. That's something that's a problem here.

In the U.S. economy, though, we just got another good sign of the labor market. We had jobless claims in this country at a 14-year low. That's showing strength in the jobs market but you're not seeing that play out on Wall Street. You've got Wall Street futures down sharply here, Dow futures down sharply.

It looks as though this is going to continue to be a rough go of it here. We'll watch the airline stocks. We'll watch the travel stocks. That's where you can see the Ebola effect.

But overall, this is just a market that has a lot of uncertainties. The Fed as well, by the way, the Fed is stopping its stimulus this month. So that's something else the markets have to grapple with.

CABRERA: All right. We'll check back in with you when stocks open. Thanks so much.

And stay with us here, we know there is more to talk about on Ebola, U.S. troops on the front lines of the Ebola fight. This is a mission the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff says is critical to stop the virus' spread.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Ebola is a -- to use a sports metaphor -- this needs to be an away game and that's why the United States military is involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: But should other countries send troops as well? A former NATO allied supreme commander joins us next with his perspective.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: So, you look at those numbers and now we know today the White House is expected to announce that reservists could be deployed to West Africa to deal with the Ebola crisis. So, this means the Pentagon would have the authority to call up those reservists. There's no immediate order for active duty. But they could be tapped to fill slots for medical personnel, engineers, technical specialists.

Those reservists would then join the 4,000 troops already authorized to head to the region. And now, the nation's highest ranking military officer, Joint Chiefs Chairman General Martin Dempsey is speaking exclusively to CNN about his Ebola concerns and why our servicemen and women are joining this fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEMPSEY: I've been worried about Ebola globally for about 90 days and I have had some on my staff that were probably a little more worried than I was even a few weeks or months before that.

INTERVIEWER: Why? DEMPSEY: I'm worried about it because it, because we know so little

about it.

Ebola is a -- to use a sports metaphor -- this needs to be an away game. That's why the United States military is involved. We want to keep this -- we want to help international health organizations, service organizations, non-governmental organizations we want to help them keep this in isolation inside of those three countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Joining me to discuss, retired Army general and former NATO supreme allied commander, George Joulwan.

Good morning, General. Thanks for being here.

Do you agree with General Dempsey's assessment that Ebola is a worldwide security threat and do you think that it's fair to send our troops into harm's way, especially given the unknowns with this particular Ebola outbreak?

GENERAL GEORGE JOULWAN, U.S. ARMY (RET): Our quick answer is yes. We've done this before. We're equipped to do it.

When I was supreme allied commander of NATO, we did it in 1994 and '95 in Rwanda where hundreds of thousands were killed within the country and after that, cholera broke out because of bad water and we sent troops into Rwanda and within 60 days stopped the dying. So we've done this before, and American troops are up to the task.

CABRERA: President Obama now has called for a greater international community response. We've even heard from the World Health Organization saying the world's response isn't enough so far. They've only received about a third of the funding they believe they need to fight this illness in West Africa.

Should there be a coordinated international military response and who should lead that?

JOULWAN: Again, yes. Who should lead it is a good question. Again, in my view, the United States must lead in cases like this, because they have the resources initially to demonstrate that it can be done.

Again, using the Rwanda case, we had French, British, even Asian and other Middle East countries joined us in that effort to stop the dying. So, I think that the United States must make the case that it is prepared to lead and that others should join us and I think they will.

CABRERA: We know there are already about 500 U.S. troops on the ground there. They're working to build facilities, to treat some of these Ebola patients. We learned that their work is going to take a little longer than first expected, it may drag into December.

We heard from the Army Major General Darrel Williams who is leading this troop effort in West Africa right now. Apparently, he said on a conference call with reporters this week that only a small number of the highly trained service members who work with infectious diseases are actually wearing protective equipment.

Given all the background of what we're talking about with these nurses infected in the U.S., why wouldn't our service members all be wearing protective equipment being in that environment?

JOULWAN: Absolutely. Again, that is what the commander on the ground needs to provide, that sort of clarity in terms of what needs to be done.

If it isn't being done, then I think someone needs to be held accountable. But what are the rules of engagement? What is it that we're seeking to do, and I would hope that Marty Dempsey and others would visit the team in Africa to demonstrate that the standard should be met and that care and attention to detail should be maintained.

CABRERA: Retired General George Joulwan, thank you so much for being with me today. And, you know, we hope you'll come back because, obviously, there are other international things happening, ISIS, and we'd love to get your take on that another day. Thank you again.

JOULWAN: Thank you. Stuff happens.

CABRERA: Yes, absolutely.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)