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Dr. Drew
Mom Accused of Abuse for Pulling Child`s Hair; Sexting among Teens as Criminal Activity; Interview with Girl Who Suffered from Sexting; Exposing Nurses to Ebola
Aired October 16, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): A mother accused of child abuse for pulling her daughter`s hair.
POLICE OFFICER: The medical term was traction. It`s a separation between the scalp and the skull.
PINSKY: Plus, more than 30 teens could go to prison. Police say they texted nude photos of themselves from their cell phones.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening, everyone. My co-host is Samantha Schacher.
And a Pennsylvania mother allegedly enraged that her 6-year-old daughter was having problem counting to 12. She`s accused of pulling the child`s
hair so hard she inflicted head trauma.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-five-year-old Brittany Ruck Conway is being accused of the unthinkable. Police were notified of alleged child abuse
back on August 31st. After some investigating, they say Ruck pulled her 6- year-old daughter`s hair several times, causing severe head trauma.
Police interviewed the child. That`s when she told police her mom was the one who hurt her.
Police say Ruck got frustrated, grabbed her daughter by the hair and threw her into a corner. The very next day, police say the child told them Ruck
grabbed her by the hair again and dragged her across the floor.
POLICE OFFICER: The injury was described, the term was traction. It`s a separation between the scalp and the skull. So, it creates a void that
fills with blood and that blood ended up pooling around the eyes, giving her raccoon eyes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar from AnahitaLaw.com, Karamo Brown, host of #OWNShow on Oprah.com, Alison Bedell, private investor, co-host of
"Catch A Contractor" on Spike.
All right, Sam, did you know that pulling someone`s hair could do some damage?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Dr. Drew, no. Blood pooling, raccoon eyes. Scalp separation. Obviously, how much force -- excessive force did this
mother use? Do you have your brain, Dr. Drew? Can you show us?
PINSKY: I`ve got my skull. It`s not a brain problem. It`s not a brain thing.
SCHACHER: Show us.
PINSKY: Yes, let me see if I can get him in proper view here, as that officer said, it`s a persistent traction on the hair that causes -- you
have a thick covering of the cranium with -- do we have a picture of that? Didn`t I ask for an anatomy chart? Do you guys have that? Can you pull it
up here?
It`s galea aponeurotica, if I remember right what it is. It`s a thick of the scalp, of the -- there it is, that white thing on top of the cranium
there is a very thick covering. On top of that goes the skin and hair. If you pull really hard, you cause that thick sheathe -- show me now, yes --
to lift off the skull and blood forms between the skull and that thick sheathe.
There you go. And then it tracks down into the eyes and causes raccoon eyes. That`s why he said there was blood pooling in her eye sockets here.
And according to the criminal complaint, the child told investigators that her mother, quote, "pulled her out of a chair by her hair for her inability
to count to 12." She was having a difficult time. She could count to 10 because she had 10 fingers.
Karamo, come on, now.
KARAMO BROWN, #OWNSHOW: Yes.
PINSKY: Have at this.
BROWN: Dr. Drew, I have to tell you, that I don`t believe this woman should be in jail. I know everyone is going to be mad at me. In my mind,
this is a psychological issue that we need to take. This woman should not be going to jail for doing this child. What should be happening here is
that this woman should be getting mandatory therapy and also mandatory counseling for being a parent is what should be happening here.
Because if this child -- in my experience, the state is only going to put this child back in the home. And once the child is back in the home,
what`s going to happen? What has this parent learned? What has her fiance learned?
So, putting her in jail is not going to do anything.
ALISON BEDELL, CATCH A CONTRACTOR: Are you insane?
BROWN: No, I`m not.
BEDELL: You`ve obviously never had long enough hair for somebody to pull on. You don`t -- it`s not a simple matter of just pulling the hair and
disciplining your child. You have to have such force and such anger and rage when you`re pulling that hair, to actually separate it from her skull.
That`s abusive.
PINSKY: And, Alison, I hear a little bit of bone went with the scalp itself pulled away from the bone, taking some bone with it.
Anahita, come on, now. Maybe -- who is right here?
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: I think Karamo is finally seeing the light, because just on Tuesday, he wanted to give that bus driver that was driving
the students when she was on anxiety medication the death penalty. So, I think he`s finally coming my way.
But Dr. Drew, this case reminds me of the Adrian Peterson case, where Peterson beat up his son and he said, I didn`t think I was doing anything
wrong. This was just discipline, this is what my dad did to me.
We have this mom saying the same thing. She said, look, I did do this. She`s not going to deny it. She said, I thought it was appropriate
discipline, because this is what my mom did to me.
PINSKY: Samantha, there we are again --
SCHACHER: That`s the most --
SEDAGHATFAR: It`s the gift that keeps on giving, as you would say, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes, trauma, trauma.
SEDAGHATFAR: I believe that`s what they think. I truly believe, in their minds, they don`t think they`re doing anything wrong.
BEDELL: Haven`t you ever had your hair pulled as a female? We`ve all had our hair pulled. We`ve all gotten into an altercation as a kid or adult.
Somebody pulls your hair. But it`s never felt anything quite like -- close to separating it from your skull. I mean, it`s a whole different level of
anger.
PINSKY: But, Alison, you must get into some very dicey situations as a parole officer. Have you ever seen anything like this?
BEDELL: I`ve never seen anything like this. I mean, I`ve seen child abuse, of course, where people are getting smacked around, they`re getting
hit, they`re getting kicked. They`re getting neglected.
I`ve never seen anybody have their skull, the hair separated from their skull. I`ve never seen anything like it. I`ve never heard any of that
before. Just as a female, I can only the actual rage --
PINSKY: It`s her mother doing it. Just think about that, everybody.
BEDELL: It`s beyond abuse. It`s a rage moment. This person clearly has anger management issues.
PINSKY: Samantha, what about Karamo`s -- I let him talk in just a second. But Karamo is saying it`s a practical matter, as a practical matter, why
not teach this woman how to parent? Because she`s going to end up back in that home anyway.
SCHACHER: Well, I do think that they do need to teach this woman how to parent, and she should also go to treatment, and she should also undergo
anger management courses. But she should also have to go to jail for what she did to her daughter.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Karamo, why not?
BROWN: No, because what`s going to happen -- I`m telling you, I work with people who are thrown in jail for abusing their children daily. And what
happens is those people only get more angry, more bitter being in jail and they get back in the house and there`s a resentment for that child who put
them in jail. So, all I`m saying here is that before we avoid this and see this child get abused more, because it`s wrong what she did.
(CROSSTALK)
BEDELL: That`s not a reason not to punish her.
BROWN: That this child is going to be back in the house with this mother, and so the mother needs something.
SEDAGHATFAR: I`ll tell you what is going to happen, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Well, that`s what I want you to tell me, because you`re going to be the one making these decisions.
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly. And she will probably be punished, because there is a difference between discipline and abuse. And when you have the child`s
head bleeding internally, that`s arguably going to be abuse. But that doesn`t mean her children are going to be taken away from her, nor should
they --
PINSKY: There are other two other kids in the house, why shouldn`t they be, at least for the time being?
SEDAGHATFAR: Let me respond, Dr. Drew. Because if anyone on your panel says oh, no, she should never see her kids again, then they would have to
adopt the argument that no one can ever be rehabilitated. Is that what the suggestion is? Because I don`t think so. If she gets therapy, if gets
counseling, if she proves that she`s rehabilitated, then, absolutely, give her --
PINSKY: Agreed.
(CROSSTALK)
BEDELL: That`s a given she`s going to get that treatment from the court. She`s going to be seen by the court. CPS is going to be involved. It`s a
given. But the matter is, it`s a crime. What she did was a crime.
She should not only be facing the consequences in family court but in criminal court, as well.
PINSKY: And to be fair, aren`t we sort of putting a line in the sand there, too, Anahita, when say thing is abuse, this is not OK to parent?
Even when people go, that`s how I was parented, what`s the big deal? I mean, that argument is getting old and it`s flawed, it`s fallacious, it is
ridiculous.
SEDAGHATFAR: It is. And that`s why the law recognizes it. They see the distinction. It is a very fine line. We talked about this with Adrian
Peterson. If there`s physical damages on the child, that`s abuse.
PINSKY: Samantha?
SCHACHER: OK, yes, final thoughts, I love the fact that she said listen, my parents treated me this way and I turned out OK. No, you didn`t.
You`re scalping your kid and you`re in jail.
SEDAGHATFAR: Peterson said that, too. Yes.
PINSKY: So, he`s -- scalping your kid?
SCHACHER: Yes!
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I`m laughing because there`s an element of truth to that. It is disgusting.
I beg you pardon for laughing. There`s nothing funny about this.
SCHACHER: I know.
PINSKY: Let`s bring in the behavior bureau. They`ll be here in just a second.
And later, is sexting a felony? Some teens are in trouble. You`ll find out why after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POLICE OFFICER: The female was having a difficult time counting to 12. She can count to 10 because she had 10 fingers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A child spent several days at children`s hospital. Ruck has two other children as well, ages 4 and 1. Neighbors say she just
moved into the home in the spring with the children and her fiance.
Ruck is at the Beaver County jail charged with aggravated assault, endangering the welfare of children, simple assault, and recklessly
endangering another person. But police say Ruck thought she wasn`t doing anything wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau. Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox", Spirit, host of "The Daily Helpline",
and Nikki DeLoach, actress of MTV`s "Awkward", and blogger, sheknows.com.
Twenty-five-year-old Brittany Ruck remains behind bars tonight. According to local news report, her 6-year-old daughter has been released from the
hospital. She`s with relatives and doing great. Sam, what are we hearing on the DrDrewHLN Facebook page?
SCHACHER: Oh, our viewers, Dr. Drew, are fired up. So, we had over 1,500 comments on Facebook sense we posted the story this morning.
Let me give you an idea, because some people are very vengeful. Jim wrote, "Her hair should bed tied off to the bumper of a truck headed off to the
sunset. The only regret on her face is the regret she got caught."
Lisa wrote, "She doesn`t deserve the title of mother. She`s a monster and should be treated as such. That poor innocent child, nothing makes me
angrier than abuse."
And then there is some sympathetic comments that were far and few between. Michelle wrote, "Every parent has a breakdown but that was too far. I`m
sure she didn`t mean to hurt her child. I say mom needs some help and take it from there. The picture of the mom looks sad. I feel for the family.
Sending prayers."
PINSKY: Well, Sam, on the phone, I actually have someone who knew this woman. Her name is Michelle -- Megan Richelle. She knows Brittany Ruck.
Megan, can you tell us about her?
MEGAN RICHELLE, FRIEND OF BRITTANY RUCK (via telephone): She`s a very calm person. I mean, she`s very outgoing. She gets along with everyone I know.
She always has multiple jobs at one time. She always takes care of her kids. I know she was a stay-at-home mom for a while and she has a fiance.
But I ran into her at the hospital at this time last year. She was in the hospital with her daughter, she had a fever. I was in the hospital with my
daughter. I was talking to her -- and I mean, she never yelled at her kids. Even if the one little boy did something, she would talk to him
before she yelled at him. I mean, I`ve never --
PINSKY: Megan, what do you think happened here?
RICHELLE: I have no idea. I think it was just overwhelmed. I mean, that`s the only thing I can think of. I mean, I`m so shocked by it. I
never thought I would see this from her.
PINSKY: This wasn`t a minor trauma, this was massive traction on the scalp, pulling it away from the skull, right? Do you understand that?
RICHELLE: Yes, I understand that. It`s so sad what happened to her daughter.
PINSKY: OK. Thank you, Megan. I appreciate your insight.
Nikki, can you imagine losing -- getting so upset with your kids that you inflict this kind of damage?
NIKKI DELOACH, ACTRESS: No, I could never -- I mean, I`m a new mom and I could never imagine that. And, you know, she was saying, maybe she just
got overwhelmed. You don`t get overwhelmed and rip the hair out of your kid`s skull. You get overwhelmed and you walk out of the room into the
next room and you count to ten and you breathe deeply, you know, when you`re overwhelmed. That is the action of -- to me of a sane human being.
And, you know, the problem is, we seek to repeat or repair that which we learned in childhood. And, unfortunately, you know, when you get
overwhelmed or angry or whatever it is, this is the behavior that she learned.
PINSKY: Yes, Nikki, that`s -- Spirit, I go to you. Nikki just gave us a little profound aphorism, which is we seek to repeat or repair that which
happened to us in childhood. She could not be more right on than that.
SPIRIT, THE DAILY HELPLINE: Yes. You know, we have to teach our parents that time-out is not just for children. When you are disciplining your
children, you should not feel any bit of anger about that. And if you do feel angry, then that is the time for you to know, I need to stop, I need
to calm down and then I need to come back and deal with this when I am calm and I`m trying to teach a lesson.
PINSKY: Yes, Wendy, I know you agree with that, too.
I always say to parents, it`s not about you. You have to take yourself out of it. You and your emotions must not be engaged in that moment.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: It`s so difficult, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: I know, I know.
WALSH: I`m not going to defend this woman, but I will remind everybody out there, she has a 1-year-old, a 4-year-old, an 8-year-old. She`s having to
maybe look hot for a fiance, poor thing. She`s been a struggling single mom.
SPIRIT: Oh, come on.
WALSH: You can lose your temper, but I`m not defending the abuse. The abuse was taught to her because she was abused. What I will say though, is
the answer in our culture is not to create two small children with giant attachment injuries by removing their primary attachment figure.
PINSKY: So, your back to what Karamo was saying, though. I`m going to go to you, Spirit, in a second. But --
WALSH: She needs parent education, she needs support, she needs training.
PINSKY: OK. We heard Karamo in the last block. Spirit, you disagree strongly, though?
SPIRIT: Listen, I have five children and 50 million jobs. There is a lot going on. We are all overwhelmed at times. That is no excuse.
What she did was she lost control. She lost her temper. And rather than being present and focused on her daughter, what she said was, you know
what? This is what was done to me, so I can inflict it.
WALSH: I agree, it`s not an excuse. It`s a warning call.
SPIRIT: Then don`t make excuses.
WALSH: I`m not making an excuse. I`m explaining how it happened.
SPIRIT: No, there`s no excuse.
PINSKY: One at a time. Samantha?
SCHACHER: Yes, it`s just really hard to wrap our heads around and even try to justify it with like --
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: I`m not saying justify. I know, I know, I know. It`s enraging because this daughter deserved it because she couldn`t count to 12? And
there`s two other kids. I hope they thoroughly investigate the other children. I know one is only one years old, but I would like to see who
other incidents took place. I can guaranty you this wasn`t the first time.
DELOACH: Well, that was my question, I`m actually really concerned with the other two kids, with the other two kids, but also her daughter. Like,
will she be able to sit down and talk to someone? Will you be able to work through this?
Because, you know, one thing I do know, if you have been a victim of child abuse, a lot of times with kids -- yes, that is a horrible thing and you
understand it`s a horrible thing that was done to you. It didn`t feel good at all and it hurt you, but it`s still your mother.
So, there`s a lot of therapy that these kids have to go through.
PINSKY: Absolutely. It`s very conflicting.
WALSH: Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Yes?
WALSH: It can affect all of their adult relationships. This is a blueprint for love and now it`s co-mingled with pain.
PINSKY: That`s right. One of the most shocking things about this story, Nikki, in the box next to you, Spirit in the box, there has five kids. I
didn`t know that. That`s a shock.
Looking so good. Always suiting up. Wow.
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: She`s a lucky woman who doesn`t have wide mood swings, but that`s often genetic. If you`re a calm person naturally, you`re a calm person
naturally. That`s often genetic.
PINSKY: Where did that come from?
WALSH: Because, for your neurochemistry. You know that, Dr. Drew. It`s about serotonin uptake. And you`re a very calm person naturally, you`re
calm person naturally.
PINSKY: Well, the point well-taken, though.
SPIRIT: No, it`s called well-managed.
(CROSSTALK)
DELOACH: Even if you are a spirited person, you have to do what`s best for your child and get a handle on your spirit.
PINSKY: Let`s leave it at that.
Next up, teens are in trouble for allegedly sexting nude pictures of themselves. They could end up in prison.
And later, schools close because of Ebola. Is that really necessary? Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Most of the time, police get involved in sexting investigations when a teen who sent a picture is bullied. The picture
meant for one person that`s sent maliciously again and again. This time it`s different. It started with a drug investigation.
Michigan State police looking for evidence on a phone in that case found inappropriate pictures. Now, at least six kids, ages 14 and 15 of Romeo
Senior High, have found themselves at a center of a felony investigation.
Right now under the law, teens that sent nude pictures, even nude pictures of themselves, are treated like predators producing child porn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Karamo and Alison.
Over 30 high school students all under age 17 could face felony charges for doing something all the kids are doing, allegedly, they`re sexting.
What`s the matter, Anahita? You didn`t sext during your high school?
SEDAGHATFAR: Of course not, Dr. Drew, me?
PINSKY: I`m just asking. According to Karamo during the break, everybody has, right, Karamo?
BROWN: Yes, I agree.
PINSKY: You were telling me during the break, everyone on this panel has sent a text, everybody does it.
SEDAGHATFAR: Not me, Dr. Drew. Not me.
These are serious felony charges. These are child porn charges that carry up to 20 years in prison. OK? I agree with what these kids are doing with
sexting and sending naked pictures. It`s stupid. It`s dumb. It`s childish. They are children, after all.
But you don`t throw them in jail, Dr. Drew. You don`t ruin their lives for doing this. They weren`t doing this maliciously.
PINSKY: Sam, how did this get going? How did this unravel at this point? What is this?
SCHACHER: Right. Well, as you just heard, one of the busts started as a drug investigation. This was according to our affiliate. We spoke to the
sheriff`s office in Oakland County, Michigan, who told us of the 31 kids, 24 are girls, seven are boys, all of them are under the able of 16.
He says that apparently, someone dared someone else and one of the girls started sending nude photos and various poses, and then it spread. And
then, of course, in Michigan, this is against the law.
PINSKY: Alison, can you imagine? This is what you`re following up on is a sexting scandal?
BEDELL: Yes. It`s -- first of all, I don`t -- when everybody talks about what the sentencing, the possible sentencing is going to be, that`s not
really going to come into play I don`t think here, because the fact of the matter is, because they are minors, they are going to be treated as such
when they`re in court. None of these cases are like actual true sex offenders.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But hold on. No, no, that`s the point.
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s actually the point, is that they do face 20 years.
BEDELL: I don`t think that`s going to happen. I think that, yes, because that`s --
PINSKY: So you think they`ll have a judge that will sort of, what, skirt the law as it exists?
BEDELL: No, no, I think they should all be charged but I think the prosecutor is going to take a look at what they did and they can also
choose what kind of charge, what kind of sentence --
PINSKY: But you know what, Alison? You probably would like these as your parolees because they`re just high school kids who are screwing around. It
would be easy for you.
BEDELL: They know it`s wrong but they`re doing it any way. They know that what they`re sending is something that they shouldn`t be sending. These
schools nowadays, they tell the kids, they warned them against things like this. Everybody knows about how to look for predators. They all know
about this. When you`re online, their parents tell them, watch who you talk to online. They know it`s wrong but did it any way.
PINSKY: Karamo?
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Alison, I hate the fact that you say it is wrong. Let`s stop --
BEDELL: Let me just finish what I`m saying, because when they`re treated as the children that they are and they get a sentence, even as something
like as probation, child probation, where they`re going to be supervised in the community where somebody can tell them what they`re doing, you know,
make sure they`re getting monitored so that they don`t get themselves in trouble.
BROWN: We have to stop shaming these children. Children are going to do things and I`m not --
BEDELL: They shamed themselves.
BROWN: No, they did not shame themselves. Every generation does something to show how sexual they are, show their sexual exploration. This is what
this generation is doing. And people, what we need to stop doing is shaming them. We need to start creating sex positive environment --
BEDELL: They are shaming themselves by sending out naked pictures. Where do you suggest it`s going to end up?
BROWN: That is actually -- they feel empowered by doing that. I know you don`t see it that way, because that`s not your generation. What I`m saying
that there`s not a wrong here. I`m saying, how about we start to educate our kids on how to have proper sexual boundaries. That is a conversation -
-
PINSKY: I`m all for that, I`m 1,000 percent with you on that, Karamo. But how about the fact that these pictures are out there forever? Back
(CROSSTALK)
BEDELL: Who`s going to get ahold of these pictures?
PINSKY: Yes. I mean, Sam, what`s up?
SCHACHER: OK. Karamo, I could kiss you right now. I agree 100 percent.
And, listen, Dr. Drew, you just hit the nail in the head. Snapchat, which is users are 80 percent teenagers just got hacked. So, you think about all
of these photos --
PINSKY: And these screen shot it anyway. It doesn`t disappear.
SCHACHER: Exactly. But now, it`s been hacked by criminals and perverts, Dr. Drew, and that`s really scary and alarming.
But here`s the key here, is we need to catch up with the times. I work with kids all the time. There`s not enough education in school. There
needs to be implemented into the curriculum, like a home ec, like a self defense class, where they need to learn the consequences and the dangers of
the digital media.
(CROSSTALK)
BEDELL: This situation is how they`re going to learn it, because if they don`t set an example now, it`s going to --
BROWN: No!
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hold on, hold on.
SEDAGHATFAR: Has anyone on this panel actually read the articles and the research that the producer sent? Because everyone is missing the point.
SCHACHER: Are you serious?
PINSKY: What`s the point? Anahita, without shaming the entire panel. Without shaming all of us --
SEDAGHATFAR: I meant that with love, Sam. I meant that with love. But what I`m saying the point --
PINSKY: Peace and love. Thank you, Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: The point that`s being missed here is that they are trying to charge these kids with felonies.
SCHACHER: We know.
SEDAGHATFAR: Children need to be taught that this is a mistake. These pictures can haunt you forever. But to put them in jail, these laws, Dr.
Drew, these child porn laws were aimed at getting child sex predators off the street.
PINSKY: Yes, that`s right.
(CROSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: So, that`s why we need to make sure that we modify the laws so they are up to date with reality. That`s the point.
BROWN: That is the point. But that`s not going to happen to these poor kids.
(CROSSTALK)
BEDELL: They`re going to get lighter sentences, they are going to get a smack on the wrist. But the point is that they end up in court that they
learn a lesson, so that it doesn`t set the precedent that other people can do this, and it`s OK, because it`s not OK.
PINSKY: And to be fair, wasn`t this a drug thing that they were investigating where the texting showed up?
SCHACHER: One of them.
SEDAGHATFAR: One of them, yes.
PINSKY: Alleged drug problem, so there`s some stuff going on here. These kids may benefit a little from a little, you know, a little yank from the
law perhaps. No, Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: No, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Not a felony.
SEDAGHATFAR: We are talking about.
PINSKY: Not a felony. Not to be .
SEDAGHATFAR: We are talking about - I`ve handled these cases.
PINSKY: Really? In Michigan?
SEDAGHATFAR: Not in Michigan, but I`ve handled these child pornography cases, and I can tell you, the law in Michigan is very, very serious.
They`re not treating these kids like minors. They`re not going to get a slap on the wrist if they get charged with this particular statute.
So .
BROWN: And Ii can tell you, Anahita, just - with you, what I`m trying to say with this, is that I agree with you. By putting these kids in a
situation, they`re not going to learn that sexting is wrong. What they are .
(CROSSTALK)
BEDELL: They are not going to learn anything.
BROWN: It doesn`t feel shame, and they`re going to keep on - they are going to grow up and do deviant sexual behavior. As they become adult.
SEDAGHATFAR: Because that mommy and daddy teaching them. What about mommy and daddy teaching them that this is wrong?
BROWN: I agree. I agree. I agree.
(CROSSTALK)
BEDELL: . teaching them that this is wrong.
PINSKY: Daddy is saying we`ve got to get out.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Hold on, guys. Thank you very much.
Next up, how many teens are sexting? In fact, we`re going to talk to one girl who knows firsthand about the consequences of sending provocative
pictures.
And later, remember clipboard guy? We now know who he is and what he was doing there on the tarmac wearing no protective clothing as he escorted an
Ebola patient right there onto the plane. After this. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
The app (INAUDIBLE). Hackers have access to thousands of new pics now and videos from as many as 200,000 users.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`ve got to look at the fact that, you know, a lot of the audience is under 18, and sometimes they send each other racy
pictures.
This is a new type of sexting. What they don`t understand are the implications.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Underage pics, possession is likely a state federal crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Wendy, Spirit, Nikke. We`re talking about the consequences for teens who sext. Sam, you have
some stats.
SCHACHER: I do, Dr. Drew. 20 percent of teens have sexted a nude or seminude picture of themselves to another teen. Over three quarters of
teens who have sexted have had sex.
PINSKY: Oh, that`s interesting, Spirit. There`s an association between engaging in this activity and actually sexual activity. That makes sense,
right?
SPIRIT: No, no, and that`s not what this is. This is normal human behavior. We have to remember how old we were when we had sex. I mean
let`s be real. By the time most kids are out of high school, they have already had sex. That is just a reality.
PINSKY: That`s true. That`s true. Wendy, you are having a reaction to that?
WALSH: Well, actually, yeah, by the age of 19, 80 percent of humans have had sex for the first time.
PINSKY: Yeah.
WALSH: But let me say this, I want to explain this, Dr. Drew, and this is very important. The reason why these laws are so stringent, it`s because
they are protecting our children from adults in the child porn industry.
PINSKY: Right. Well, that`s the intention. That`s the intention, right?
WALSH: As soon as - no - Forget about hackers. As soon as this becomes a misdemeanor to teens, then you get adults coercing teens into making the
pornography for them - saying you won`t get in trouble.
PINSKY: Well, but let` snot - I don`t want to get lost in the weeds of the law. Because most states don`t have a stringent on circumstance as
Michigan does. And to Spirit, you are saying no, no.
SPIRIT: Yeah, because, you know, that`s not what`s going to happen here. What`s going to happen is a law that was intended to protect them is now
going to turn them into sex offenders.
PINSKY: Right. SPIRIT: And it`s going to set them back.
PINSKY: And that`s we are .
SPIRIT: They are going to be (INAUDIBLE) before even adults.
PINSKY: I don`t want to .
DELOACH: Absolutely. And also one thing that somebody hasn`t brought up is the -- think about the humiliation that those kids are going to go
through during an investigation.
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: Yeah.
DELOACH: It`s going to be humiliating enough to be outed that your pictures are out there. But then, think about the process of the police
and the jury or whomever is talking about it. In fact .
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Nikke, let me ask you this. Should we be- I`m guessing from what Wendy and Spirit are tilting towards, they`re kind of saying we shouldn`t
be trying to stop this so aggressively. I think that`s what they are saying.
WALSH: We shouldn`t be trying to stop it.
PINSKY: Well, Nikke, what do you say?
DELOACH: Well, I mean - you know, this whole thing makes me want to take my son and move to an island where there`s no Internet.
(LAUGHTER)
DELOACH: I just - I have to be .
PINSKY: Oh, Nikke, don`t worry, he`ll find something there, too.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Don`t worry. It`s a male. I`m sorry. You`ve got one.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHACHER: Yeah.
DELOACH: I know. But, you know, at the end of the day, I feel there`s two things that I feel very strongly about. And that we have to be so involved
with our kids. I mean, nowadays, like with the phones, they have so much access to things that we did not have access to. And I get that yes, back
in the day we were also having sex. It`s different. It`s a different time. I`m sorry, it`s just different.
PINSKY: And Spirit is saying no.
DELOACH: I`m saying -- I don`t think this should be criminalized. I don`t think this should be criminalized. I think the policing should be teachers
and parents.
SPIRIT: Two words here - two words. Sexual responsibility. Parents have to become comfortable with this subject matter. Our parents did not talk
to us about sex. We have to teach our kids sexual responsibility so they can contextualize the consequences of having sex. Period.
PINSKY: Wendy?
WALSH: I will say this because I teach classes to high schools about this. Most girls who sext are coerced by boys.
PINSKY: OK.
WALSH: It is not natural for them to take nude pictures of themselves when they`re 14, 15, 16 and send it. But they`re coerced by groups of girls who
think it`s cool and by boys who coerced girls.
DELOACH: And I was just going to say one last thing, I want to say that I have a son. And as much as people say talk to your kids, talk to your
daughters, talk to your daughters. Talk to your daughters. Why are girls doing this? Why are they sending pics? Why are boys asking for them?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: That`s right. We have to talk to our sons about how to treat young women.
DELOACH: Yeah!
PINSKY: But hold on now. Right now I`ve got on the phone Michaela Schneider and her dad, Detective Sergeant Grant Snyder. Michaela was in
the seventh grade when she says the pressure to sext got her in big trouble. Mikayla, what is your story? What happened?
MICHAELA SNYDER: Well, when I was in seventh grade, I got in a relationship with a kid who told me he loved me and just told me all the
right things, and about a month into our relationship, he started asking for pictures. And they weren`t nude pictures, it was just like bra and
underwear pictures. And, of course, I didn`t want to do it. My dad`s a cop. My mom and dad have always told me, like, that`s not right, you
shouldn`t do it. But he had this charm, if you love me, you`ll do this. And .
WALSH: . that`s how coercion works.
PINSKY: When Wendy, Michaela`s story is getting right at that point. We have to really talk - and Nikke, your point is that we really got to talk
to these young men. And Dad is on the phone, too. Sergeant, we just heard about 31 teens who are facing - potentially facing felony charges for this
behavior. Do you think that`s the right approach?
SGT. GRANT SNYDER: Well, you know, it`s really hard for me to judge the actions of another county attorney - officer, law enforcement officer.
PINSKY: Sure.
SNYDER: We want to believe that - that they do these things thoughtfully and, you know, with the right and appropriate probable cause and everything
like that. That said, the criminal justice system is a horrible place to raise children. And unfortunately, what our kids are dealing with here are
really adult problems that we cast upon the world of kids because of the access they`re allowed and all the things that they can get into and this
sort of, you know, immersion into these adult issues.
PINSKY: And sergeant, let me just ask, because you were probably shocked, you couldn`t imagine what happened to your daughter, and yet, there it was.
Even your daughter.
SNYDER: Absolutely. You know, it was one of those times where - it took my breath away. And we never sheltered Michaela or any of our children
from any of the things that I saw on my job. We were very open and transparent about it. I thought more information was the right answer. I
thought that was going to protect them, and at the end, it didn`t do anything. It didn`t stop it.
PINSKY: Samantha?
SCHACHER: Michaela, what was the aftermath? Did other - did your peers? Did you talk to them about it? Did they find out? Did they victimize you?
MICHAELA SNYDER: Well, yes, because after my mom found the pictures and told my dad, my dad called his mom and then that made him upset. So he
started telling everybody. And I was bullied so badly. I couldn`t come home from school without being called a slut or a whore. Or being told to
go kill myself.
PINSKY: Oh my god.
SCHACHER: She`s in seventh grade. You see, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: That`s exactly what Nikke Deloach was saying.
PINSKY: Listen .
DELOACH: The criminalization .
PINSKY: We`re all wearing purple today in the anti-bullying campaign from GLAAD. And this is your - your story really cuts to the heart of this
sorts of experiences. And Dad, too. I mean thank you for sharing. I`ll tell you what, as I heard these stories, I think to myself about how much
the best intentions by parents -- we`ve all sat on these panels, that parents, teachers, that`s what we really want, we don`t want law
enforcement doing the parenting. We all agree on that. But my god, it`s difficult to stay abreast of the technology. I think only back to the `70s
when there was the first wave of all this was the so-called sexual revolution and no one contemplated what it would be to foist that on
adolescence. They didn`t think it would happen. The same thing now is happening with technologies and phones. We`ve got to always think about
what we do as adults, how it`s going to affect our children and in particular the adolescent population. That if you don`t think they are
going to pick it up, you think so at your peril.
Next up, hear from the whistleblower nurse who witnessed the care of an Ebola patient and then blew the whistle. And this guy, that guy in the
pants next to the hazmat suits, what is he doing there? Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apologies and second guessing as the two infected nurses are removed from the Texas hospital where they contracted Ebola.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We made mistakes. We did not correctly diagnose his symptoms as those of Ebola and we are deeply sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The federal government may decide to prevent the 76 Dallas hospital health care workers from flying. They are also considering
lowering the threshold temperature for flight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they have the power. And yes, it should be them, because common sense has taken a holiday here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Karamo and Spirit. No new cases of Ebola reported today. But anxiety about this virus only gets worse, in spite of
all the reassurances. Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, Dr. Drew, I know you`re telling us calm down, don`t be paranoid. But here we go again. Now we have this other woman who was
infected with Ebola. We have two schools -- or schools in two different states shut down because of this. And this woman actually told the CDC, I
have a fever, I was in contact with an Ebola patient. And they told her it was OK to fly? I mean, I don`t know, Dr. Drew, if I`m more afraid of Ebola
or the fact that we are so clearly unprepared. We have no protocols in place for this. I mean that`s frightening.
PINSKY: Oh, now, wait a minute. Now, wait a minute. We had protocols. We`re finding the weaknesses in protocols. We are closing down all the
holes in the dike. And I say hoo-zah for the opportunity to go through this exercise. There is a lot at stake.
SEDAGHATFAR: This is not an exercise.
PINSKY: I understand that.
SEDAGHATFAR: It`s happening.
PINSKY: But we are doing - It`s happening in slow motion, because this is a noncontagious - relatively noncontagious virus.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, closing all the holes when these nurses at this hospital were left to use medical tape to cover their necks? Are you
serious?
BROWN: Sam, come on, we have to calm down here.
SCHACHER: Wait, Karamo, no, no, no. Don`t make light of this. My sister is an ER nurse, and I`m sorry those nurses should not have been left to use
medical tape to protect the skin on their necks.
PINSKY: Let`s hear from her.
SCHACHER: That is not OK. Now, they`re fighting for their lives.
PINSKY: Well, no, no, no. Those are the ones - but here`s two nurses, a nurse from the hospital where the nurse contracted Ebola. We don`t know if
it`s because of the same reason --
SCHACHER: Of course, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: But she`s complaining.
SCHACHER: Oh, my god.
PINSKY: This woman felt unprepared and unprotected. Listen to what she told Anderson Cooper on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one ever spoke to me about Ebola. Why would my neck be exposed? Why do I have on two pairs of gloves, tape, a plastic
suit covering my whole body, two hoods, a total of three pairs of booties including the one on my entire back suit, an apron, and my entire body is
covered in at least two to three layers of plastic and my neck is hanging out. And I just - I just told them, why would an area so close to my mouth
and my nose, why would that be exposed? And they didn`t have an answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Texas Presbyterian Hospital has not responded directly to that nurse`s accusations but they tell us nurses who interact with Ebola
patients wore protective equipment consistent with the CDC guidelines at the time, and yet, Spirit, people don`t care.
SPIRIT: They don`t care, and this is what people are thinking, they are thinking if nurses don`t know how to get this thing right and they have
access to every kind of piece of protective outer wear that they can have, as just a general population people are scared. And we can`t have it both
ways, Dr. Drew. We can`t tell everybody, listen, the chances of you catching this are really small. No, it`s not airborne. But then we look
at the guy who is out there on the tarmac with no protective gear and ask what in the world is he doing?
PINSKY: Well, he`s certainly not worried, he`s not worried about airborne virus, that`s for sure. Because it`s not airborne. But, Sam, why don`t we
look at it this way: given how weak their protocols were, isn`t it amazing we only have two cases? Only two.
BROWN: Thank you, Dr. Drew.
SCHACHER: This shouldn`t have been those two cases, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: I agree with that. That`d be wonderful. I agree with that.
SCHACHER: Protocols beforehand. It`s not OK. And they`re still not implementing these protocols on some of the hospitals. OK?
PINSKY: Taking a quick break. You guys stay with me. Two things, check us out on Instagram at Dr. Drew HLN. Also, join us on our Facebook after
show. We may keep this conversation going at hlntv.com. We`ll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The anxiety that people feel about this is understandable. We`re talking about a deadly disease.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The odds of getting or dying from Ebola here in the U.S. are minuscule. Compared to other more familiar tragedies. According
to the National Safety Council, heart disease or cancer, suicide, a car accident, gunshot wound, bee sting, dog bite, or even a lightning strike.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: More likely to be hit by lightning. Back with Sam, Anahita, Karamo and Spirit. Last night we showed you this video that had Twitter in
a frenzy. We wondered who is this guy with the clipboard. And why isn`t he wearing a protective suit? At least I asked that question. It turns out
there`s a good explanation. He`s the medical safety coordinator for Phoenix air. Their safety protocol requires him to wear street clothes
because the Hazmat suits can block the worker`s vision and hearing while on an active runway. So he`s making sure no one on that team gets into trouble
- he did then get on the plane and he didn`t get Ebola. Are you okay with that, Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew. No, why even take that chance? I mean I don`t even believe that this is - that this should be their protocol. But why
take that chance?
PINSKY: Take the chance - because he`s doing his job.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK, but Dr. Drew, you`re telling me that the reason he wasn`t wearing it is because they said it blocks their vision, those suits. So we
can actually like send a man to the moon, we can replicate human organs and implant them into people and they work, but we can`t design a suit where
their vision isn`t blocked?
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Thank you, counselor.
SEDAGHATFAR: I`m sorry.
PINSKY: Here is my point. My point is, if I were being consulted on an Ebola case, and I needed to go in, I would go in, I would do the protocol,
I would go in because it`s your job.
BROWN: Good for you.
(CROSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: . without a suit on .
PINSKY: Of course, I would .
SCHACHER: Don`t come back here, please.
SPIRIT: All due respect, if you get Ebola, Dr. Drew, then that is on you.
BROWN: Dr. Drew, you can come hang with me any time. I don`t have this fear and I`m with you.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I will take the precautions and I will not get the virus. Because no one only a few couple of people have gotten it. They are figuring out
what is wrong with the protocol. And maybe they didn`t follow the protocol properly. That`s still a possibility. And would you all - so important to
go check out this photo published by the "Daily Caller." This woman was spotted wearing a homemade hazmat suit at Dallas Airport in Washington,
D.C. We do not know the context - yeah, that will be you if I came back here after taking of the Ebola patient. We do not know the context of this
photo. She could be making a joke or just trying to get attention. My favorite part is the guy behind her has shorts on.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: She has everything short of the scro-guard. Where is the scro- guard in that picture?
PINSKY: Sam. Sam. SPIRIT: No responsibility. At the end of the day, you do what you have to do to protect yourself and your family.
BROWN: So, even at the risk of looking like an idiot? Because this little lady looked crazy.
SPIRIT: OK. You get to look like an idiot alive.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: To do that and - that suit.
PINSKY: All right.
SPIRIT: Karamo.
PINSKY: You know what we`re going to do? Did you say hlntv.com, producers, and Facebook? We`re going to be there. OK. And Facebook,
doctor, HLN. We are going to continue this conversation about Ebola. Talking about getting into the weeds a little more about it. You guys
seemed to like it last night. It`s - We can develop this topic a little more and we can scare the tar out of Anahita in the process.
SEDAGHATFAR: I`m already scared.
PINSKY: So, so, but Sam, thank you. Good job, guys. You can DVR us and you can watch us any time. I just want to say, again, the same thing I
said last night, if you haven`t had direct contact with somebody`s body fluids with Ebola, with the fever, of a couple of days duration. You don`t
have Ebola. "Forensic Files" up next.
END
