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Obama Appoints Ebola Czar; When Did 2nd Infected Nurse Fall Ill?; Two Men Under Self-Quarantine; Health Care Worker Isolated on Cruise Ship

Aired October 17, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Wolf. Thank you so much.

Great to be with you all on this Friday. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Have to share this huge development with you in this battle against Ebola right here in America. A new man is in charge. But -- here's the but. This is the thing. This Ebola czar has zero medical experience. His name is Ron Klain.

Let me just rundown a checklist of his experience. I mean, he definitely has an impressive resume. Lawyer by training. Earlier in his career he was a clerk to Supreme Court Justice Byron White. He served as chief of staff to both Vice President Joe Biden and also to then Vice President Al Gore.

He then left the White House in 2011 to become president of Case Holdings. That is the holding company for former AOL chairman Steve Case.

So Elaine Kamarck. Let me bring you in. Founding director of the Center for Effective Public Management, Brooking Institute and former domestic policy advisor.

Elaine, welcome.

ELAINE KAMARCK, CENTER FOR EFFECTIVE PUBLIC MANAGEMENT, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Thank you very much for having me.

BALDWIN: So you worked very closely with him under at the time Vice President Gore and I am sure he is an excellent communications person and political operative but doesn't the nation need a medical expert at the helm at this time?

KAMARCK: Well, the president has appointed Ron not to treat patient, not to look into the biochemistry of this disease. He's appointed Ron to coordinate the governmental response. Now let's think about this for a minute. The governmental response runs all the way from transportation, from the FAA. What do we do when a flight coming into the United States has someone on it who appears to be seek with Ebola?

TSA. Checking passengers who come into the country. Education. What about schools? What if something happens in a school? Military. How about all of those men and women over there trying to help in the crisis in Africa? What about when they come back? What do we do with them? USAID, our aid to Africa in trying to help this.

In other words, the governmental response has little to do with the medicine part of the Ebola crisis.

BALDWIN: I hear you, Elaine. Let me push back because I had someone here on the show who is a director, worked in bio defense under two administrations, both Bush and Clinton. And his thoughts to me, listen, this is 21st century This is both security, as you point out, and also medical. It's really sort of intertwined now in this -- you know, in 2014. But we do know that he will have to speak about things medicinal about the science. So still, I push you a little bit on that.

KAMARCK: Yes. Sure. I mean, look, I suspect that knowing Ron as I do that when there is something to be talked about that's scientific or purely medical, he's going to call upon the best doctors in the country at the CDC or wherever they are and they will be speaking and he will be simply introducing them.

What he's going to be doing here is looking across the hall of government, military, foreign aid, security issues, education issues, and most importantly right now transportation issues, and making sure that the government is making the right decision, the coordinated decision, to make sure that this does not become a bigger crisis than it is.

That job is not a job that most doctors are trained to do. That's a job that somebody with Ron's background is in fact trained to do.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you because you bring up a great point about transportation and part of this whole debate played out yesterday in testimony on Capitol Hill and it continues to do so, this issue of potentially banning travel from these West African countries. You know, we've heard Dr. Frieden at the CDC saying it just -- it just wouldn't work. I think his word was inappropriate.

Knowing Mr. Klain as you do, do you have any idea where he would stand on that specific issue?

KAMARCK: I don't have any idea. But I think this is why he's been appointed, is that unlike someone whose specialty is disease, Ron's specialty is in fact the whole of government. And so I think that -- I suspect that one of the first things Ron is going to have to sit down and do is look at FAA, TSA in particular, our two most important transportation agencies and figure out what the right protocol is for travel in order to make sure that we don't make any mistakes and don't let this thing become bigger than it has become.

BALDWIN: That is the thing Americans are talking about.

KAMARCK: You bet.

BALDWIN: No matter where you go these days.

Elaine Kamarck, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you from Washington this afternoon. KAMARCK: Thank you. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Here's the update on these young women who have Ebola. Ebola patient Nina Pham. She still has some symptoms but is said to be doing, quote, "quite well" in her new hospital bed at the National Institutes of Health. She was that first nurse diagnosed with Ebola after caring for Thomas Eric Duncan. Remember he was the Liberian man who died of Ebola at that Dallas hospital.

Pham was definitely emotional but as you'll see upbeat in this video released last night by the Texas hospital where she worked.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NINA PHAM, NURSE INFECTED WITH EBOLA: Come to Maryland, everybody.

DR. GARY WEINSTEIN, NIH: Party, party in Maryland?

PHAM: Party in Maryland.

WEINSTEIN: OK.

PHAM: OK.

WEINSTEIN: Do you need anything?

PHAM: I don't think so.

WEINSTEIN: OK. There's no crying. Well, happy tears are OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Gosh. Look at that.

Today the CDC wants to hear from passengers on both Frontier Airlines flight between Dallas and Cleveland taken by a second now Ebola infected nurse Amber Vinson. A CDC official says Vinson may have had symptoms actually as early as Friday. That is when she hopped on that initial flight out of Dallas to Cleveland. Her uncle disputes that, though.

I want you to watch this interview with us here at CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE VINSON, UNCLE OF EBOLA-INFECTED NURSE: Amber has directly told me that she felt fine. That she felt well until Tuesday morning. Tuesday morning she woke up and felt that she should take herself in. She checked her temperature. It was actually below the threshold. She was 100.3.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about both of these nurses with Elizabeth Cohen. She's been working this really from the get-go there in Dallas for us.

And so, Elizabeth, can you just bring us up to speed as far as how these two nurses are doing as far as we know today?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, the NIH had a press conference, Brooke, and talked about Nina Pham's condition. They said she's in fair condition and that she is expected to get better. She's sitting up. She's able to eat. She's interacting with staff. We certainly saw that in that video that you just showed. And, you know, she's very fatigued. But that's expected with an Ebola patient.

Now we don't know much about how Amber Vinson is doing at Emory. Emory says that her family has requested privacy so they're not giving updates.

BALDWIN: You mentioned the video. And I don't know if we can play it again as I talk to you. But I mean, a lot of people are seeing for the first time -- we keep talking about these nurses who have Ebola. We're talking -- here it is. Talking about how they, you know, left this Dallas hospital for either Emory or NIH here but just seeing it, Elizabeth, for the first time.

You see her in this hospital bed and this, you know, I don't know if it's a doctor or a nurse, but as we've been talking so much about, you see him, head to toe, in this facemask with -- you know, we've to closed caption what he's saying to her.

COHEN: I know. And this is -- from what we've heard about what went on inside this hospital earlier, a far cry from the protective gear that they were wearing before. We don't know exactly what they were wearing before but this certainly appears to be much more covered.

You know, I think we're seeing sort of medicine in the making. You know, they've never treated an Ebola patient here before. They didn't train to treat Ebola patients. One of their hospital's executives said that on Capitol Hill yesterday so when they got one walking through the door, they didn't know exactly what to do.

And that's why, Brooke, a lot of public health experts have said look, from the get-go these patients should have been transferred to Emory or NIH or one of the other two official biocontainment hospitals. They train. They know how to do this.

Just because you know how to treat breast cancer or do heart surgery, doesn't mean you know how to safely take care of an Ebola patient.

BALDWIN: Right. Totally different game is what it sounds like. Gosh, can't help but feel for her sitting in that hospital bed, though.

Elizabeth Cohen, thank you, in Dallas.

Just ahead, while one of the workers who cared for Duncan is right now actually on a cruise ship. Did you hear about this? And the country of Belize says no, you cannot come dock on our shores. Thousands of passengers waiting. We will hear from someone onboard.

Plus one of the nurses at this Dallas hospital making explosive allegations right here on CNN. Hear what she says nurses were told about their skin being exposed and more on our breaking news. We can tell you a deal has just been reached to release a lot of those kidnapped school girls taken by the terror group Boko Haram. That major development coming up.

You're watching CNN's special coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

So two passengers said they sat three feet from one of the nurses who the CDC now says may have been actually more symptomatic with Ebola that officials originally thought.

Axl Goode and Taylor Cole are models. They were returning from a romance novel conference when they took that Frontier Airlines flight along with Amber Vinson, that second nurse, now with Ebola, back to Texas. And this is video from that flight actually. You can't see Amber Vinson in it. But this is an image of Good's boarding pass for Flight 1143. Here you go.

Now these two guys say they are stuck in their own homes out of work now but just a tad anxious because they sat precariously close to this young woman.

Axl Goode and Taylor Cole join me live from their own homes because they're not going anywhere right now. You both self-quarantined. You did this to yourselves.

So Axl and Taylor, thanks for joining me.

And let me just begin with you, Axl. Do you even remember -- did you -- there's so many people on a plane. Do you know where Amber Vinson sat? Do you remember seeing her?

AXL GOODS, PASSENGER ON FRONTIER FLIGHT WITH EBOLA-INFECTED NURSE: No, no, I don't remember anything. As you can see from video I was asleep except for Taylor messing with me through the entire flight. But we were told by the Dallas County Health Department that she was within three feet and so that's close proximity and so we're being monitored, that we have heavy monitoring for the next 21 days or so.

BALDWIN: OK. So let me just back up. So you're on this plane about three feet away. I'm assuming neither of you all then saw her.

So is that correct, Taylor, you didn't see her either so you couldn't tell me whether she looked like she was sick or not?

TAYLOR COLE, PASSENGER ON FRONTIER FLIGHT WITH EBOLA-INFECTED NURSE: Yes. I didn't see her. I didn't hear anybody coughing or sneezing or anything. So, you know, I would have noticed that. But just as for her, I didn't even pay attention.

BALDWIN: OK. So since that flight, who have you all been in touch with? Let's just begin with Texas Health Department. Taylor, have they contacted you?

COLE: The Texas Health Department contacted me yesterday. And they're having a nurse come out twice a day to check my temperature. The only contact I've got from the CDC was a package on my doorstep today basically saying that I couldn't travel on public transportation.

BALDWIN: Can't travel on public transportation so I'm assuming that includes what? More than just an airplane but a bus, a train, et cetera?

COLE: Trains, buses, cruise ships.

BALDWIN: OK. And then, Axl, I know you called the CDC. Did I hear you were put on hold for a little bit of time?

GOODE: Yes, I was -- I was put on hold and given the option to have them call me back because the wait time was currently 81 minutes. So I opted to have them call me back. It took around 100 minutes to get a call back.

BALDWIN: So you got the call back -- go ahead.

GOODE: Yes. At that point they took down all my contact information and they asked if I had any questions and I made a few inquiries which they said they did not know but that a specialist would be in contact so it was 24 hours later until I was contacted by an epidemiologist from the Dallas County Health Department.

BALDWIN: So what kinds of questions the epidemiologist asked either of you?

GOODE: She was just asking if, you know, if I remembered anything, who I had been in contact with, et cetera, and basically said that, you know, there's a very low risk is what she told me but that's not very comforting considering how the CDC has been backpedaling through this entire situation.

So, you know, they were just -- they said that the quarantine was voluntary at this point but to look for it to become mandatory, which I don't really care because we're both quarantining ourselves, you know, for the people that we care about. You know, we're doing that for the good of everyone, not just ourselves.

And so they didn't really tell either me or Taylor anything that we hadn't already been doing. You know, checking our temperature. Not to get on an airplane when we've been exposed to somebody that has, you know, now been diagnosed with Ebola.

BALDWIN: So you have taken -- both of you have taken this upon yourself to stay in your homes, to stay away from your loved ones for the next 21 days, Taylor, are you staying put right there?

COLE: Yes, that's right. I told everybody that I know just to completely stay away from my property. You know, don't even come in my driveway. I just have taken every precaution necessary to keep everybody safe.

BALDWIN: OK. Let me just -- and I think a lot of people understand and respect absolutely all of the measures that both of you are taking but again I go back to hearing from these doctors saying, you know, listen, Ebola as far as we know is only spread if you've been, you know, in contact -- granted, I hear you, three feet away is not nothing but, you know, in contact or bodily fluid exchange between someone, you know, who has Ebola. So is anyone in your world to either of you saying guys, you're going a little -- taking this a little too far?

COLE: I think anybody --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODE: I think we're getting conflicting information from a lot of the experts on saying how it can be contracted. There's not a lot of research out there and so a lot of the experts are still, you know, back pedaling or saying well, she could have coughed in her hand and then it could be in saliva and, you know, there's a lot of ambiguity on how it could be spread and we don't know.

And we're also assuming that at this point that the virus has not mutated. And, you know, so until it mutates, we can treat it as if it's going to be the same or we can take precautionary measures and we can -- we can stop it before it ever has the chance to mutate, before it has a chance to re-infect multiple people.

And so, you know, everybody has been abundantly supportive of what we've been doing because rather than saying that we're going to try to go within the guidelines that CDC has set, or anybody else, we're going to go within the guidelines and say that we're going to take the most preventive measures possible in order to protect everyone, and if other people had taken preventive measures like that, then, you know, we probably wouldn't be here in the first place.

BALDWIN: Well, I am sorry I'm having to talk to both of you given your current situations but I appreciate you all taking the time to come on and maybe if you're saying put for the next 21 days, we can check in and see how you two are faring.

Axl Goode and Taylor Cole, thank you both very much.

COLE: Thank you for having us on.

GOODE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: You got it.

Coming up next, one of the workers who may have carried Thomas Eric Duncan's lab specimens is right now sitting onboard a cruise ship and Belize is refusing to allow that ship to dock with thousands of passengers onboard. We'll talk to someone on that ship coming up.

Also ahead, the hospital reveals a blistering response to this nurse who has made these explosive allegations about the care Thomas Eric Duncan received before he died.

You're watching CNN's special live coverage. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Some of the worries over the reach of Ebola has now spread from the air to the sea. Another employee from that Dallas hospital, Dallas Texas Health Presbyterian under quarantine on board a Carnival Cruise Liner called the Magic. U.S. Department -- State officials say this woman is a lab supervisor who may have handled Thomas Eric Duncan's fluid samples.

This worker got on this Carnival Cruise Line in Galveston, Texas, Sunday, headed toward Mexico, when the U.S. State Department wanted to evacuate her through neighboring Belize's international airport, that country said no.

CNN aviation and government regulation correspondent Rene Marsh actually talked to one of the passengers on board the cruise liner. Rene joins me now.

What did he or she tell you?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you an update on the ship's position. It is now off the coast of Mexico because everyone on board that cruise ship was supposed to enjoy Cozumel, Mexico. However, the Mexican authorities did not clear the ship to dock there so they were all kind of stuck for a while.

And they'd been waiting for several hours and now we just got word from the cruise line that they are now heading back to Galveston, Texas, because again the Mexican authorities did not clear them to dock there. They are slated to arrive on Sunday.

Now back to that passenger who is on board as we speak. Spoke to him earlier today. He says as far as the mood goes, people are not panicked but it's definitely a talker. Everyone is talking about it. The computers, they're all packed. People are looking up Ebola. Getting smart on how you may be able -- how you may contract the disease. But again he says there's not a feeling of panic.

He did also describe to me the moment the captain broke the news to them that this lab worker was on board. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They never said Ebola. They said the hospital several times where this person worked but never said the word Ebola. Not sure why. Maybe they didn't want to cause panic on the boat. But clearly everybody knew what they were talking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARSH: All right. So again, that is from the passenger there describing how they got the news. Again they never used the word Ebola but he says everyone knew what the captain was talking about when he made that statement.

BALDWIN: OK. So we know this employee may have handled Duncan's fluid samples. I guess, we don't even know that for sure. We are, what, 19 days into this 21-day quarantine.

I mean, really, Rene, I know you're not a doctor but as far as everything we've learned about Ebola and what you're hearing maybe from medical personnel with regard to what's happening on this cruise line, is there a real danger?

MARSH: At this point all health officials are saying the risk is extremely low. You just said it. You know, we're 19 days in with this particular worker. We've been saying all along the incubation period for Ebola 21 days so we're right at the cusp there. She's being kept again away from everyone else in her cabin. Her travel mate also being quarantined within that cabin as well.

So the feeling is that everything that's being done is being done out of an abundance of caution. But there is no fear on behalf of the health officials that anyone on board that ship as we speak is in any sort of danger.

BALDWIN: OK. Perspective. Very important here.

Rene Marsh, thank you.

Now this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANA AGUIRRE, DALLAS HEALTH PRESBYTERIAN HOSPITAL NURSE: It's outrageous. And the most outrageous part about it is, is that every time I think about the facts that I'm saying right now, I just know that the nurses that have been infected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That Dallas hospital is now responding to that nurse who is making multiple allegations about the way the hospital handled that initial Ebola patient from Liberia and the people caring for him.

Could there be a legal case here? Jeffrey Toobin joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)