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At This Hour

U.S. Ebola Hysteria Overblown; Possible Serial Killer Confesses in Indiana; Police Searching for Hannah Graham Find Human Remains; The Fight Against Ebola in Africa

Aired October 20, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm John Berman.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN CO-ANCHOR: And I'm Michaela Pereira.

@THISHOUR, we have new numbers in the Ebola situation here in the United States. Two-hundred-seventy-three that's the number of people still being monitored for symptoms in Dallas and Ohio.

The quarantine window has now expired for all but five of the original 48 people who had contact with patient zero, Thomas Eric Duncan, including his fiance and his family.

BERMAN: Seventy-two, that is how many hours it will take the new Ebola domestic response team of doctors, nurses, and trainers to deploy if the virus pops up somewhere else in the United States.

And just a short time ago, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Dr. Anthony Fauci, reminded us of a significant number in the United States dealing with Ebola.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: In the United States, two people have gotten infected with Ebola -- two. Both of them were taking care of a desperately ill patient in a risky situation.

You have to distinguish the two nurses who were the only two people who were taking care of patients who got infected from the risk to the general public who aren't anywhere near an Ebola patient, much less a very sick Ebola patient.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: We also just learned from Doctors Without Borders that a worker in Norway who had Ebola has been cured and discharged from the hospital. There's been good news about this medical worker in Spain. She seems to be doing much better

I want to bring in Dr. Seema Yasmin -- she's a public health professor in Dallas and a former disease protective at the CDC -- and Dr. Frank Esper, an infectious disease specialist. And, Dr. Yasmin, I want to start with you, since you are in Dallas. You're part of that community there where now more than 40 people have been released from varying levels of restrictions and quarantine.

Is this a big moment down there? How is it being received?

DR. SEEMA YASMIN, PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC HEALTH, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT DALLAS: Absolutely. There's a big feeling of relief here in Dallas that about 40 people have been released from quarantine or from self- monitoring. It's very reassuring.

It reassures the public again that that risk of Ebola can be quite low when you haven't had very much contact with an Ebola patient, so I think lots of happy people in Dallas, of course still watchful or waiting for another hundred or so who have been monitored for a few more days.

PEREIRA: Meanwhile, more cautious optimism, I suppose, when you look at the situation in west Africa. We know that the numbers there are still increasing and that's a cause for concern.

However, Nigeria, Dr. Esper -- as an infectious disease specialist, you can talk to us about this. We know that Nigeria, the nation of Nigeria said, "We are Ebola-free. We essentially have had no new cases."

What can we in the United States learn from that? And how much of a victory is this seen in the battle against Ebola?

DR. FRANK ESPER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALISIT: Yeah. It's not just in Nigeria but also in Senegal where they really with very vigorous techniques and control of exposure and monitoring of those people have been able to stop the virus with not as much as we are used to here in the United States.

So I find that -- not only is it very reassuring to me -- for people here in the United States, but it should be reassuring to people around the world, that it doesn't take sophisticated techniques to control this virus.

BERMAN: You know, it's nice to get this good news, this good news from Senegal and Nigeria. It's nice to get relatively good news from Dallas.

Nevertheless, there's still 4,500 people who have died, more than 9,000 infected from Ebola in West Africa, so there's a lot of work that needs to be done.

We are, though, looking at some measures we're talking about in the United States, Dr. Yasmin. The 21-day incubation period, that's the period that has expired for these several dozen workers in Dallas.

Do you think 21 days enough? There's some members of Congress now, albeit not medical professionals, who say it should be more than 21 days.

YASMIN: We really have to look at the medical professionals who have been doing this for about four decades now, dealing with Ebola outbreaks and safely containing them. So let's look at Doctors Without Borders as a really good example. They use this 21-day monitoring or quarantine period, and it's worked really well for them, so overwhelmingly the science backs this 21-day period.

And we need to reiterate this so that the 40 or so people who've been released from monitoring today aren't stigmatized, aren't discriminated, and people don't fear them, questioning, was 21 days enough? The science says that it is.

PEREIRA: Abundance of caution seems like it wouldn't be a bad thing to add to that, you know, the 21 days.

Dr. Esper, final question to you, we've been hearing about the rapid response team, the idea they would sort of scramble to an area that has a new Ebola case, should one arise, within 72 hours.

When I think about it, given the way Ebola spreads, how quickly it spreads, how highly infectious it is, 72 hours doesn't feel --

BERMAN: A lot can go on in 72 hours.

PEREIRA: Yeah. That doesn't feel like rapid response. Give us your feedback and thoughts on this.

ESPER: Yeah. Certainly, we would like an immediate response. However, you have to understand that everyone who presents to an emergency department or an outpatient clinic who is sick is not necessarily all of them going to have Ebola. It does take a little while for us to actually diagnose the disease before we can respond to the disease.

It's also -- one thing that you can take some reassurance about is how this virus works. The ability to transmit this virus from person to person gets higher the sicker the patient gets, so when the person first shows up with symptoms, similar to what happened with Mr. Duncan and his contacts in Dallas. They were exposed to him when he was just starting to have symptoms. That's not a lot of virus in his body.

However, the sicker you get, the more you get bed-bound, the more you get critically ill, like what happened when he was being cared for in the intensive care unit, then you're teeming with virus, and then you can spread that virus a lot more -- easier.

So the first 72 hours after you get -- start having symptoms, when you are calling for this rapid response, there's still probably in a very low amount of virus, so that if spread from person to person, while not zero, isn't going to be as high as when they're in the intensive care units.

PEREIRA: That's explains why those two nurses were sickened.

Dr. Esper, Dr. Yasmin, really great to have you back with us. Hope to have you back again soon, OK?

Ahead @THISHOUR, the search for Hannah Graham is now being called a death investigation, the evidence that changed the direction of that case.

BERMAN: Then confessions of a serial killer, a man admits to killing a woman, then leads investigators to at least three other sets of remains.

PEREIRA: Also ahead, we're now hearing Officer Wilson's side of the story, what he says happened before he shot and killed Michael Brown, and the new evidence that supports what he says.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: ... to suddenly being a suspected serial killer.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you believe the mayor of Hammond, Indiana, this is a person who was openly and intelligently speaking to investigators and have told them, from the time Friday evening when a young woman named Afrika Hardy was found. Her body was found a Motel 6 in Hammond, Indiana.

He then specifically and exactly led them to other bodies in nearby Gary, Indiana, fur different locations, all women, and it sounds like three of the bodies, three of the victims, were in one single place.

The other thing that is going on, though, is that the mayor also saying that some of -- he's reporting that he killed people 20 years back. It is not clear whether some of the victims that they found now are from 20 years ago or if there may be other victims out there.

PEREIRA: This is the most upsetting and horrifying tale. First of all, these seven women, who were they? And wouldn't somebody have reported them missing at some point?

MARQUEZ: Afrika Hardy, we know, since she's one of the few that have been named, she was from Colorado. She may have been pregnant. That's been reported a couple places. We don't know that for sure.

Some of these women may have been prostitutes as well, people on the edge of -- the margins of our society, unfortunately. Oftentimes, people like this prey on individuals like that. And we don't know a whole lot about them or him at the moment, but we are learning a heck of a lot more, and police are going to have a press conference coming up here in a bit that we'll certainly tune our viewers into.

BERMAN: It would be interesting to hear. You know, had they been looking for people? Over how many years are we talking about?

MARQUEZ: It could be 20 years. It could be more. This is a sex offender. They're only saying right now he's a 43-year-old man. He's from Austin. He's on the sex-offender registry there in Texas.

He's known to operate in neighboring Illinois, and certainly in Texas. So there may be other places. They may be talking to other investigative agencies

They haven't charged him yet as far as we know. We may hear about that later, but clearly, this is something that's sprawling, it's breaking, and they're trying to figure out how far this thing goes.

PEREIRA: Seven families mourning, and potentially even more, really horrifying. Thanks for letting us know. And of course we'll keep watching if there's a press conference later today. Thanks, Miguel.

BERMAN: All right, there's another criminal investigation we're going to talk about. Remains are found during the search for Hannah Graham, ahead @THISHOUR, what this discovery now means for the investigation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: After five weeks of searching, police in Virginia think they may have found the remains of college student Hannah Graham. A police search team found a skull and bones scattered across a creek bed just about eight miles from where she had last been seen. Authorities still have to get forensic tests back to know for sure.

PEREIRA: The parts were found near a pair of black pants similar to the ones Graham was said to be wearing when she disappeared.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. DALE TERRY, CHESTERFIELD COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: We stayed positive, stayed upbeat, we were here for a mission and that mission was to bring closure and we're hoping that that's what we've done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Joining us once again, forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht. It's so glad to have you here to help us understand all of these latest developments. This is now being considered a death investigation, yes we know, the DNA tests, they have not come back. Tell us how this all lines up in terms of the investigation.

CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, I think the homicide detectives were considering this as a possible death investigation from the very outset, given the circumstances of this young girl's absence, but in a sensitive fashion, they referred to it as missing persons. It's a death investigation of somebody, considering where the bones were found, that this is most likely not an accident, suicide or a natural death of somebody.

So it's a death investigation of that individual. From a forensic anthropological standpoint, now with the skull, they'll be able to make an identification quite soon. Most likely this young woman, Hannah Graham, would have had some dental work that can be compared to the dentures of this skull, the anthropological features of the skull can be ascertained. Is it a young Caucasian female and so on. The black pants, maybe, will yield some DNA evidence, too. Possibly the bones themselves, if there's some cellular components, will lead to DNA identification of Miss Graham. The examination of the bones, by themselves, will not establish a link to the suspect in this case. There may be some DNA of his on the pants, but you're not going to get his DNA from the bones.

BERMAN: Cyril, this is a grim discovery by definition and unfortunately, I think a lot of the questions that people have about it are equally grim and grisly. We mentioned that a skull was found, bones were found. It's just five weeks after this woman disappeared. How do you get to that state where it's just bones that are found?

WECHT: You're quite right. It is a relatively short period of time. We're talking five weeks. However, I don't know the temperatures in Virginia during that period, but we have some fairly warm weather here in Pittsburgh, but I think it was much warmer there. And, of course, exposure to the outdoors. Then you have -- and I don't mean to be insensitive or crude -- but you have animals at play in a wooded area, too, that can contribute to the loss of soft tissues.

So, skeletonization could occur in this five-week period, considering all of those factors. In any event, we'll soon know. They won't release it, I'm sure, right away, but I guarantee you, it's not going to be long before they can determine whether or not these are the bones of Miss Graham. I am certain that she must have had some dental work, and along with the anthropological topographical anatomic features of the skull, that identification can be made.

And then the link back to the 2009 case of Miss Harrington and the rape case of another young woman in 2005, fortunately that didn't result in a fatality, and maybe forensic links -- well, there won't be any forensic links, but links of another nature, back to the sexual assaults of two women in 2002 and 2003. If it turns out that it is this guy, that for these 12 years, that we know of, and victims, possibly that we do not yet know of, this is going to be a significant serial killer, also.

BERMAN: Right. Cyril Wecht, thanks so much for being with us. Really appreciate this discussion. And it's a tough discussion to have, but very important questions.

PEREIRA: As you said, grim and grisly, but they are important questions.

Alright ahead, more than 4, 500 people have died from Ebola worldwide. Our next guest has been fighting Ebola on the frontline. His tips for returning home responsibly and safely. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: One of the workers on the frontlines of the Ebola fight in West Africa has just returned to Atlanta. He's a friend of the show. Sean Kaufman has been training medical workers in Liberia. And we've been checking in on him with the conditions there on the ground.

BERMAN: Yeah, Sean joins us now from Atlanta.

You know, Sean, we got some, I think, milestone-type news here in the United States. Those first people have been released from quarantine here. There's good news about the Spanish nurse. There's good news about a medical worker in Norway. We're desperate for good news from some of these West African nations. You just returned from Liberia. Any sense that the situation there is getting under control? SEAN KAUFMAN, PRES. BEHAVIORAL-BASED IMPROVEMENT SOLUTIONS: Well, I

do. I see a lot of good things. I see a lot of coordination. I see a lot of folks and resources that are starting to make their way over to Liberia, so I do think that we're starting to see some good signs that we are paying attention to the things that need to be paid attention to.

PEREIRA: You know, one of the things that we talked to you about was, you know, the proper precautions. We've been talking to you about the CDC guidelines, the protocol, et cetera. and one of those things, one of the aspects of the protocols, is this return. If people have been overseas, like you have, what happens when they return from the so- called hot zone? Give us an understanding of what you've been doing, and even the precautions that you've been taking, monitoring yourself, what it was like to leave that area and what kind of process happened to you on the way out?

KAUFMAN: Well, the reality is we need training at all levels, and not just training to go over there, but really, in essence, training for when we come back, as well. I'll tell you, it's good to be home. I mean, it's great to be home, but being home means that I have some responsibilities. And I have to come home responsibly, which means that every single day, I have to assess myself. For the next 21 days, I have to make sure that I don't have a fever.

And not only that, after assessing, I also have to take a look at my behaviors. I have to make sure that, listen, if I do have a fever, I've got to act responsibly. I'm not going to just show up at a hospital. I'm not just going to integrate myself into a community. I've actually got to act responsibly by isolating myself and making sure that people have a plan for when and if I do present with a fever. And last, but not least, one of the things that I'm seeing right now, coming home, and I'm starting to get a little nervous, because I think we've really hit a panic button here in the states. We're well above, you know, quite honestly, I wish we had this type of panic overseas. I wish we had people in Liberia who were responding the way that we're responding here in the United States.

But I think it's fair, also, to communicate to people. Look, my risk in the Ebola response is fairly minimal. I was training folks who were not infected with Ebola. The folks that I did see with Ebola were at a great distance. So my level of risk was very, very low. But that still doesn't mean that everybody's going to be perceive it as low. So I have to not only assess myself everyday, but behave in a responsible way and finally, communicate to people where I've been and what I've done so that they have the right to make a decision that's best for themselves.

BERMAN: You know, it's interesting, you brought up the issue of panic here in the United States and I'm wondering if you could sort of clarify what exactly that is. Is panic these schools that have closed because someone might have come in contact with someone on a plane flying with one of the Ebola victims? Look at what Harvard University just announced it's doing a few hours ago. They're asking people to basically check with the university before traveling to these three nations in West Africa. They're saying that possibly they will ask people to stay away from the school for 21 days when they return. Is that panic?

KAUFMAN: Well, panic to me is you shut down a whole cruise because you have somebody who's sick. Or, like you said, you shut down schools. There's a difference between a healthy respect and an unhealthy fear of Ebola. And quite honestly, we really, at this stage in the game, -- Harvard is trying to coordinate its efforts. They know that they have some of the most respected professionals in the country that are probably going to lend a hand in this battle with Ebola, and so they're just trying to coordinate what's going on, because they really don't have recommendations coming from the top, and that's one of the things that we need to have.

So I think that Harvard's doing the best that they could with a healthy perspective. But the reality is, is folks, if you have not been around someone sick with Ebola and you have not been around high quantities of fluid, look, the soccer moms that are worried today about their kids catching Ebola at school, it's excessive. It's panic.

PEREIRA: Yeah. You're right. Sean, thanks for that measure of just perspective. And also, really glad to talk to you now that you're back home. I'm sure you want quality time with your family who have missed you. Welcome back and stay in touch with us, okay?

KAUFMAN: Thank you so much.

BERMAN: What I love about Sean Kaufman is he puts it in clear perspective. There's plenty of things to worry about in terms of the response to Ebola, but there's also plenty of stuff that's silly to worry about. And if you're scared of the wrong things, you're not paying attention to the right things.

PEREIRA: Exactly. Ahead @THISHOUR, we're going to turn to another story that we've been watching. Stunning new details emerging in the shooting death of unarmed teenager Michael Brown. Was his blood found in the officer's car and why?

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