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ISIS Attacks; Indiana Police Investigate Potential Serial Killer; Winning the Ebola Fight

Aired October 20, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we continue on, top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We begin with this possible serial killer and this killing spree that police say could span two decades. A 19-year-old woman has been found strangled to death at a hotel in Hammond, Indiana. A suspect is now under arrest, but the discovery doesn't stop there, because while this guy has been in custody, police say 43-year-old Darren Vann started talking, starting confessing, telling them where they could find the bodies of several other women.

So, they found three women. And then the next day police went out and found three more female bodies, total here seven, seven bodies found over the course of three days. At least three of these locations are actually abandoned houses, and just a short time ago the Hammond police chief talked about the suspect's candor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN DOUGHTY, HAMMOND, INDIANA, POLICE CHIEF: Mr. Vann told him and police officers at the scene that he had messed up by not committing -- by committing the crime in Hammond and was surprised how quickly he was located after the incident.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Vann could be charged as early as today.

Let me bring in Rashid Abdul-Salaam, a private investigator and security specialist, and Joseph Scott Morgan, a former investigator with Fulton County, Georgia, medical examiner's office.

Gentlemen, welcome.

JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, FORMER DEATH INVESTIGATOR: Thank you.

RASHID ABDUL-SALAAM, PRIVATE INVESTIGATION AND SECURITY SPECIALIST: Thank you for having us.

BALDWIN: Rashid, let me just begin with you, because we know they found this initial body in this motel. Flash forward. That was Friday night. They get this guy in custody. And then little by little he not only starts talking and confessing, but, Rashid, takes them, physically takes them to these locations to find these women. Does that happen very often? ABDUL-SALAAM: Actually, it happens more often than you would believe

in these type of cases for whatever reason.

This is something very difficult for people to live with if they have any sense of morality or consciousness and they may be able to suppress it for some time, but eventually it happens. I have worked on four serial killer cases in my experience of being a criminal defense investigator, and I had one case that was very similar to this involving young ladies.

And so it's very difficult. Our client in that particular case gave a full confession as well.

BALDWIN: It's incredible that at some point they do develop a conscience, but that I think is being generous given what some of these people are capable of.

Joseph, my next question for you is so far six bodies. What do you make of the fact they are all women? Apparently, one of them was found on some Craigslist-like service and two of them were found strangled.

JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, FORMER DEATH INVESTIGATOR: What's significant here, Brooke, is the idea that we're looking for patterns, patterns of behavior, patterns of -- forensic patterns that we can trace.

And it is very significant because most of the time -- let's keep in mind this gentleman is in his early 40s. People do not just overnight suddenly become serial killers. This is something that has been a progression that he's been leading up to throughout his life. I would suspect if we were to dig deep into this guy's past and do proper investigation, there probably will be more bodies that will turn up. He might be a sex offender. You never know.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: He was. He was on the sex offender registry in Texas.

MORGAN: Yes. Well, one of the things that we are going to be looking for here -- and the key word we need to keep in mind is linkage. Is there DNA, physical evidence we can link back to all of these cases? I find it interesting that he has squirreled these bodies away.

Also, most of the time with serial killers, many times -- let me frame it that way -- they will actually keep mementos and I would be very interested to see if they can find a location where he was keeping something that he was particularly fond of, something that reminded him of the event.

BALDWIN: I'm fascinated by that. I did an entire hour-long documentary on a different serial killer out of Indiana and Illinois and what sort of broke the story. He was behind bars and had collected and kept and carved out in a wood shop in jail all these different figurines that he sort of placed around this map. Why do they do that? ABDUL-SALAAM: Well, as strange as it sounds, there's their

accomplishment. It's called trophies. They are keeping a trophy of their accomplishments.

As bizarre as it is, in the criminal element, this is how it manifests itself in the criminal mind. And we had mentioned about other bodies. Another thing you may come across, we had -- in the case that I worked on, we had six bodies. There would have been a seventh victim were it not for someone had interrupted the individual when he was attempting to do a murder. There may also be other potential victims out there that just basically for whatever reason they were able to get away from this guy.

BALDWIN: And talking about potential victims, Joseph, back to you, you mentioned patterns, right? If this guy thus far is talking, what are investigators doing to then try to find those bodies? I believe they said at this news conference this could go all of the way back to '94, '95.

MORGAN: Yes. And it's very disturbing that he was on sex offender registry in Texas. I think what we need -- one interesting point we need to bring up is this element of surprise. He said he was surprised he was found.

When these people get into these patterns and they are very comfortable with their behaviors, once they begin to stray out of this comfort zone, that's when they will make mistakes. I know it's very cliche, but they really do. They become very skilled at one particular thing and it's repetitive behavior. They get very used to it.

So what we're going to look for here is to see what else turns up along his trail. It's going to be very important to try to track his life up to this point back up to 20 to 25 years in the past.

BALDWIN: Again, we said according to police charges could come as early as today.

Gentlemen, Rashid Abdul-Salaam and Joseph Scott Morgan, thank you. Thank you both very much.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: She had to endure tremendous fear, grief and isolation, but today the fiancee of Ebola victim Thomas Eric Duncan is in the clear. She's OK. Dallas health officials confirm that Louise Troh, her son and two other relatives all staying in that same apartment at the time show no signs of Ebola. Remember that 20-day incubation period, that quarantine, it actually ended yesterday.

So Ms. Troh did not speak out publicly once this period had ended, but she did issue this statement. Let me just read for you what she said -- quote -- "We are so happy this is coming to an end. And we are so grateful that none of us has shown any sign of illness. We have lost so much, but we have our lives and we have our faith in God, which always gives us hope." And that hope, by the way, extends overseas to West Africa. Two countries, Nigeria and Senegal, both have been declared Ebola-free by the World Health Organization. That's huge. But that is not the case in Liberia and in Sierra Leone, which are still ravaged by this deadly virus.

The United Nations actually just confirmed today that a third worker of theirs died from Ebola. That staff worker was actually working in Sierra Leone.

And CNN International anchor Isha Sesay is live for us in Nigeria.

And so, Isha, despite the latest news from the U.N., how would you characterize this? Cautious optimism?

ISHA SESAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, I would say that certainly on the ground here in Nigeria there's a huge sigh of relief.

Let's put it in context for our viewers. The first case of Ebola in Nigeria occurred in Lagos, the commercial capital of this country. Brooke, I'm talking about a city of some 21 million people. A Liberian-American man flew into Lagos, collapsing at the airport and that is how Ebola made its way to this country.

And the fear was that in a city as large as that, this would be a springboard for this disease to spread across the country. What Nigeria did was implement a robust, swift set of measures to contact trace. We have heard that phrase over and over again, contact tracing people that had any kind of contact with that patient zero and isolating those that were high risk and maintaining an effective communication system, Brooke, to tell people what was going on and they say that was the key.

That was the key here in Nigeria. Across the region in Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea, as you well know, those are countries that don't have as robust a health care system and they need just about everything, Brooke. They need medical personnel. They need beds. They need better and faster diagnostics. They need more people to get on the ground and help these countries defeat this virus, which is tearing apart families and communities and has left these countries on the brink, Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right. Isha, thank you so much in Nigeria for us.

Just ahead here on CNN, breaking news, breaking news in the war against ISIS. Just a short time ago, terrorists conducting 15 nearly simultaneous attacks on Kurdish forces in Iraq. More on that in just a moment as I speak with a journalist who went directly to the front lines and talked to all of these fighters. It's a fascinating, fascinating story.

Also for the first time, we're hearing new evidence from that Michael Brown shooting that could give the clearest details yet of officer Darren Wilson's account of that day in Ferguson, Missouri, when that unarmed teenager was shot and killed. Also ahead, a woman hands a bottle of morphine to her dying father.

He was 93 years of age and wanted to die with dignity. Now she is facing charges.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And I don't know if you have seen it's, pretty stunning reporting from "The New York Times." They are saying that Michael Brown's blood showed up inside of this patrol car of the police officer who shot and killed him. It's evidence, according to authorities, of a struggle.

But could the report also be a sign that officer Wilson will not be indicted? The killing of this unarmed teenager ignited weeks and weeks of protests and violence in Ferguson, Missouri.

Let me read you part of this report from "The New York Times" indicating that the FBI found blood on Wilson's gun, Wilson's uniform and the inside panel of Wilson's patrol unit. Quoting "The Times" now, this is what they write: "Officer Wilson told the authorities that Mr. Brown had bunched and scratched him repeatedly, leaving swelling on his face and cuts on his neck."

Wilson show Brown to death later outside of the car. And this account inside the car contradicts what Dorian Brown -- remember, he was the friend of -- Dorian Johnson -- thank you -- Dorian Johnson, who was a friend of Michael Brown. They had been together that afternoon. This is what he says he saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DORIAN JOHNSON, WITNESS: He reached up the window with his left arm. He grabbed onto my friend big Mike's throat, and he's trying to pull him in the vehicle and my friend big Mike very angrily is trying to pull away from the officer and the officer now is struggling with trying to held a grip on my friend big Mike as he tries to pull away.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Did Michael try to get the weapon that the police officer had?

JOHNSON: No, sir. That's incorrect. At no point in time did they struggle over the weapon, because the weapon was already drawn on us, so we was more trying to get out of the angle or aim of the weapon besides going toward the weapon because it was drawn on us already.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was just one of those eyewitness accounts. This is the man who was all over the story for you don't even remember how many weeks you were in Ferguson, Missouri, at the time.

But Don Lemon joins me now.

We appreciate you coming in early. Just wanted really your perspective on this. I was talking to two lawyers last hour before we even get into the

facts and what we know and what we don't. The fact that this has leaked, they were saying, is egregious. It should never have happened, perhaps, perhaps -- and they couldn't answer this -- setting up the public for a non-indictment.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I think that's a very big perhaps, because as you listened to legal experts all along, even in the beginning of this, most legal experts will tell you it's very hard to convict a police officer in this situation, barring any sort of evidence, videotaped evidence, or anything beyond that.

BALDWIN: Of which there was none, other than audio.

LEMON: There was none. There is an unsubstantiated report that there is video evidence they removed, but no one has really been able to make anything of that.

But, again, it's been said all along it will be really tough to convict this officer and now with this new evidence on the gun and on the uniform and on the patrol unit -- no one's testimony in this particular case, let me tell you, no one's testimony is to be taken as gospel, Dorian Johnson's nor the officer's.

Most witnesses in any particular situation, they're going to do what helps them the most. All right? But what speaks as gospel is the evidence in the case. That's the gun. That's the uniform. That's the patrol unit, again, barring any sort of evidence beyond video.

So that's what's going to speak to the grand jury, because everyone is going to say what helps their side and so they will say, well, the officer had this and the officer had that. But let's remember there are two separate incidences here, what took place at the car. No one had -- everyone said that there was an altercation at the car. Right? And then what happened once they got beyond the car.

BALDWIN: Exactly.

Talking to the lawyers -- and I'm so glad you brought that up. It's one issue if you're inside the car and you're this officer -- and again according to his account -- and let's be clear "The New York Times" didn't answer the question why he shot at Michael Brown multiple times.

But if he felt in fear of his life, it's one thing to have taken the gun and shot him in the car. It's entirely different scenario to have all of this play out outside of the car. And it will be interesting if it comes to it, and it may not, how defense vs. prosecution would present that.

LEMON: And I'm sure you have spoken to Mark O'Mara throughout this.

BALDWIN: That's who I just talked to.

LEMON: We're talking about the Trayvon Martin. It's different what happened in the seconds that we didn't see, which the case depended on, and which is why George Zimmerman walked away, because no one knew exactly what happened during those moments.

And according to the evidence that they had, according to gospel so to speak that they had, it was in George Zimmerman's favor. In this particular case, if it plays out as to what "The New York Times" is saying, the evidence goes in favor of the officer in Ferguson, Missouri. Blood on the ground. Blood on the uniform. Blood on the patrol unit at that particular moment.

Beyond that, there are several people who have said his hands were in the air. There are others who said his hands were not in the air and they were by his side, so again contradicting testimony. But you have to look at the evidence.

BALDWIN: Don Lemon, thank you for coming in. Appreciate you very much.

LEMON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Make sure to watch Don, "CNN TONIGHT" 10:00 p.m. Eastern tonight on CNN. Thank you, sir.

LEMON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, if your mother or your father heaven forbid getting older in their years, if they're sick, perhaps terminally ill, and they want to commit suicide, would do you whatever it takes to stop it? A woman faced that choice. Her decision led police to arrest her. Don't miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The case of terminally ill. You know the story of 26-year- old Brittany Maynard in Oregon. She has put the spotlight on a person's right to die.

The state of Oregon and just a couple other states recognize that right. But Barbara Mancini's state, Pennsylvania, not one of them. And now she is facing possibly 10 years, 10 years behind bars for allegedly helping her 93-year-old father kill himself.

She talked to Anderson Cooper on "60 Minutes."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA MANCINI, DEFENDANT: He asked me to hand him the bottle and I did. I had the dosing syringe in my hand. He took the cap off and he drank what was remaining in the bottle.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Could you have stopped him?

MANCINI: I could have, I think. I mean he did it pretty quickly. But, no, I didn't try to stop him.

COOPER: Did you feel that you had aided a suicide?

MANCINI: No, I didn't. I felt like what I did was hand my father his medicine. Now he didn't tell me, "I'm going to kill myself today." He asked me for the medicine.

COOPER: You think if Pennsylvania had a law like they have in Oregon, things would've been different?

MANCINI: I do. And I also feel that he should have had the option if he wanted it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Mel Robbins, let me bring you in, CNN commentator and legal analyst.

This story has been in the news so much. I talked about it with so many just colleagues and friends given the case in Oregon, but in this particular case in Pennsylvania, let's just back up for a minute. What is, under the eyes of the law, assisted suicide?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Right.

Assisted suicide is when you physically help somebody commit suicide and there's kind of two qualifications for this, Brooke. The first is that I provide you with the implement that you use, whether it's medicine, as we saw in this case in Pennsylvania, or a gun that some people...

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: Like, I hand you a gun. I do it knowing that you have the intent to do it, the intent to use it to kill yourself.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: So, the fact that she -- the quote was, she wanted to honor his wishes. He was sick. He was 93. She was aware.

ROBBINS: Yes. Yes.

And what's interesting is had he reached for the bottle and just downed it himself, there would be no issue. She could have witnessed the whole thing. She might have even tapped him on the arm and said it's going to be OK, dad. The Supreme Court has said that encouraging somebody is part of your First Amendment right as long as it is not done maliciously.

It's a much longer, complicated jurisprudence to get into, but she handed it to him knowing it was going to happen. I don't a jury -- I think she will be indicted. I don't she will be convicted of this.

BALDWIN: Let's also back up, though, because if you're not familiar with the story, what ended up happening was, he didn't die that day. She is arrested. He is rushed to the hospital. They give him some kind of medication to try to reverse the morphine. Four days later, he dies and so she is furious over the way in which he passed away.

ROBBINS: It was the exact opposite of what he wanted. He didn't want to go to the hospital. He didn't want to be hooked up to machine. He didn't want medical intervention.

He wanted to die at home and on his own terms. And so what actually happened was an absolute not only nightmare for the family, but it was in the complete disregard for what this man wanted for himself, which I personally believe. I disagree with 45 states that make it illegal. I think we should have death with dignity laws.

BALDWIN: Do you think we will eventually, just like -- two totally -- this is apples and oranges, but what we have seen with legalization of marijuana? Now the convictions are -- it's not the same. It's not treated as it was five years ago, let's say. Might we see that over the course of the next few years with right to die, do you think?

ROBBINS: I don't know, because I can't imagine being a politician that takes this on as my big champion for my reelection.

BALDWIN: It's a polarizing issue.

ROBBINS: No, it's a very polarizing issue. Every single family in this country will deal with this.

I saw my father-in-law struggle for 16 months as he battled cancer and lost cancer. We had discussions on whether he wanted to go to Portland so that he could end it.

BALDWIN: Wow.

ROBBINS: And so this is happening behind closed doors. That's why I think these laws are important to bring it out of the shadows, because I do believe that you can give end of care. People are scared about dying. Most people are.

And there is a lot of fear about the pain associated with it. I think you can help people manage pain, but also give people a choice about how they end their life if they want to.

BALDWIN: It's tough to talk about. It can be ugly. But I'm glad we're talking about it. Mel Robbins, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

ROBBINS: Great to see you.

Breaking news in the war against ISIS. This is what we know. We're getting word that terrorists have carried out 15 simultaneous attacks on Kurdish fighters in Iraq. Coming up, I speak with a Kurdish woman that went to the front lines, both Iraq and Syria. Spoke with civilians. Spoke with fighters risking everything, many of them women and sometimes losing everything.

Plus, remains, human remains found near Charlottesville, Virginia, the newest lead here in the search for missing University of Virginia student Hannah Graham. But there are serious questions about whether it could be her. We will talk to a forensic expert and get his opinion on that coming up.

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