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Dr. Drew
Boy Sexually Abuses Other Children in Foster Care; Teacher Sexting High School Students; Has Hannah Graham Been Found?; Serial Killer Captured?
Aired October 20, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, has a serial killer been caught? Police say a registered sex offender led them to six bodies and
that there maybe more.
Plus, a teacher accused of being a sexual predator, dressed like a French maid and Britney Spears at school. Why didn`t anyone do something?
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host is Samantha Schacher.
Human remains found this weekend, are they those of Hannah Graham? Police are working tonight to answer that question.
Meanwhile, the suspect in her disappearance has been charged with sexual assault and attempted murder in yet another case.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBIN MEADE, HLN ANCHOR: Police have called off the search for Hannah Graham, the University of Virginia student who disappeared five weeks ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After a shocking discovery turned this missing person`s case into a death investigation.
Human remains, eight miles from where 18-year-old Graham disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forensic tests need to be conducted to determine the identification of those remains.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Graham vanished in the early hours of September 13th from Charlottesville`s downtown mall, last seen in surveillance videos with
32-year-old Jesse Matthew.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police found DNA evidence when searching his house, linking him to Morgan Harrington, who is murdered in 2009.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: DNA from Harrington`s remains linked her case to another one four years earlier, the sexual assault of a 26-year-old woman
98 miles away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A possibility that Jesse Matthew, the man in the middle of your screen, could indeed be a serial killer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, host of "Tomboys" podcast on Blog Talk Radio, Loni Coombs, attorney, author of "You`re
Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell", Vanessa Barnett from hiphollywood.com.
Now, Sam, police have found a body. What else do we know?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Oh, Dr. Drew, it`s every parent`s worse nightmare. So, they found a skull and bones in a dry creek bed. They
weren`t buried. The bones looked to be intact. Also, they found a long vertebrae bone. Remember, Hannah was quite tall at 5`11" and black pants
were discovered nearby. Hannah was bearing black pants the night that she went missing.
PINSKY: And police link the same suspect to 2005 attack of a 26-year-old woman. Here`s what they charged him with today. Number one, attempted
murder, abduction, sexual penetration with an object.
Vanessa, is it what we think this is. I mean, is this guy as -- I don`t have a word for it.
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: Disgusting, vile, absolutely. Where there`s smoke, there`s fire. And I know, initially I wanted to be open. I
wanted to not rush to judgment. I`m so glad I didn`t.
But this is very alarming. And these details show a pattern here. I think he`s very much a serial assaulter, serial killer. We have a very big
problem on our hands and he needs to be brought to justice ASAP.
PINSKY: Leeann, it`s so chilling when you sew somebody that looks like a regular guy, you don`t think that`s a serial killer. They don`t come in a
certain package. They don`t look like anything specific. That to me is sort of what is jarring about this.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Right. You can`t let somebody`s look of being normal throw you off, because let`s face it, right now, we know of
three that they`ve linked him to with DNA. We don`t know if there`s more.
And the scary thing is, she`s preying on young, beautiful women and nobody has stopped him and nobody has caught him until now. The thing with
possible or serial killers, is that they will keep doing it because they`re not caught. You know, so how many more victims out there are there and how
many more could there be?
PINSKY: Well, take a look at this map. The body we`re talking about here is found eight miles from where Hannah was last seen, four miles from a
house Matthew lived in with his mother six years ago.
Loni, is this a coincidence? Do we have a serial killer on our hands do you think?
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: Well, it looks like it, but thank heavens, the prosecution is taking its time linking everyone very carefully. And so
far, the one they filed against was this victim we`ve known as R.G. back from 2005, who is still alive. So she`s able to actually talk with
investigators.
PINSKY: Wait, what?
(CROSSTALK)
COOMBS: She`s still alive.
PINSKY: Have they got her testimony yet?
COOMBS: Yes, and she`s cooperating. They`re not telling where she is, that they`ve been in contact with her. She`s cooperating and helping with
the investigation. So, it makes sense this is the first case they`re going to file and they`ll work on the other ones, which will take more time. But
this one they`re going to be able to persecute.
PINSKY: But when -- Sam, when are we as a public going to know what this woman has informed the police about?
SCHACHER: You know what, Dr. Drew, I`m not sure, because what Loni just said. The police department, the investigators are being very careful
keeping everything tight lipped --
PINSKY: Sam, I want to interrupt you before you comment, but I`ll go back to you.
But, Loni, are we going to have to wait until this goes to court to hear the testimony?
COOMBS: Most likely. I mean, they`re going to be very protective of her. Look, she wants her privacy. This is going to be -- it could be huge in
the media.
What happened to her was a sexual assault. You know, it`s been alleged that penetration of an object is something very different. And if they`re
doing it something out of respect for her, I appreciate that. Let it get to the courtroom where it should be presented to the judge.
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: Yes, did you see Danine Manette`s tweet that went up?
PINSKY: I did.
SCHACHER: She said it`s no coincidence that the body was found just a block away from her mother`s home.
PINSKY: An area he knew well.
SCHACHER: Yes, and it perplexes me that he would not bury the remains, that he would leave the pants there. Did he want to get caught? Is he
trying to go for notoriety or infamy? I mean, it`s almost too sloppy.
PINSKY: Vanessa?
BARNETT: Is it too soon to call him a serial killer? I know I just did.
SCHACHER: No!
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: Does he fill all the qualifications? Because he was leading such a normal life. He was in school. He was like a nurse almost and he was
very --
PINSKY: That`s sort of par for the course. Loni is telling us that`s par for the course.
COOMBS: Yes, that`s how serial killers become successful serial killers. They`re able to carry on in society. Some are very charming, very good
looking. That`s why people never assumed. That`s why the victims come to them so readily.
PINSKY: Anybody ever read "The Devil in the White City", about the serial killer at the Chicago, around the Chicago World Fair? No?
SCHACHER: No.
PINSKY: None of you guys.
He was a doctor of pharmacy. He just lured people in. It was crazy.
TWEEDEN: Talk about somebody that you wouldn`t think about, Dr. Drew, like you said.
PINSKY: Listen, he was extremely charming and well-liked. People started disappearing. There was a world`s fair going on. They just figured people
kind of coming through and leaving.
Now, let me tell you about another serial killer, this time in Indiana. Police arrested a man for strangling a 19-year-old woman. They say he
confessed to murdering six other women and even led the police to their bodies.
Now, Leeann, I guess it`s the same topic. These guys get away for so long. How do you suspect they do so?
TWEEDEN: Well, I mean, Dr. Drew, this guy, what we know is he went on an app or he went online to order a hooker per se, so he had her meet him at a
hotel. So, to me it seems to be his M.O. I don`t know any of the backgrounds of the six women he allegedly murdered.
PINSKY: Leeann, is this the guy that did the backpackers, or whatever the name of that, what was the name of that site?
TWEEDEN: Something backpack.com or something where you can --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: It`s crazy. I went on it today to see what it was. It`s crazy what people do online.
TWEEDEN: I thought Craigslist is where people got hookers. I didn`t know there was an app for this, Dr. Drew. Crazy enough as it is. I remember a
few years ago, there was a man in Daytona doing the same thing. He was murdering hookers, because a lot of times people won`t list them as
missing. You know, they`re vulnerable women who meet men alone. So, you know, women just have to be so aware.
And, you know, obviously, the person, who was the third person party that put the two together, was the one who was able to go to police and send
somebody to the hotel, and knew she was dead.
PINSKY: So I don`t ruin somebody`s Web site, this is called backpages.com. Not backpack.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Now, Loni, this guy was a registered sex offender. You would think police would be looking at this guy. What do you think happened
here?
COOMBS: Well, you know, now he`s linking to all of those other bodies.
PINSKY: And why is he -- these guys confess all of a sudden?
COOMBS: Well, sometimes they do. I was waiting to see if that happened in the other case, the Hannah Graham case, but it never did. It appears
they`re doing all that investigation without any of his cooperation.
In this case, he`s just spilling his guts, not only telling them about, but he`s taking them to the locations where they can find the bodies. Now,
why, we don`t know what`s going on in his head at this point, but clearly, he`s feeling the need to unburden himself.
PINSKY: All right. Listen, we will bring in the Behavior Bureau next, and Dr. Bill Lloyd with us as well.
And later, parents are wondering why they were not warned about their adopted son`s problematic past. He ends up molesting their children. It`s
a crazy story. You got to hear this.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Human remains scattered across a creek bed behind an abandoned home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They found a skull, bones and pair of dark fitting pants similar to what Hannah Graham was wearing the night she disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forensic tests need to be conducted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can tell you, the guys with whom I spoke who were out there, there`s not one of them who doesn`t believe that this is the -- that
we are talking about the remains of Hannah Graham.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, professor of Pepperdine University, Erica America,
psychotherapist and television host, and Dr. Bill Lloyd, surgeon pathologist.
Police discovered human remains over the weekend behind an abandoned house just a few miles from where missing Hannah Graham was last seen.
Dr. Lloyd, it`s been five weeks. Now, all they have found there is bones, intact bones apparently, at least describing it as such. So my question to
you is, would it have been possible for her to decompose that quickly?
DR. BILL LLOYD, SURGEON PATHOLOGIST: Well, that`s not the usual timeline. Five weeks isn`t enough to get down to just bones. Create the image in
your head of that Thanksgiving turkey, about four days after the holiday. There`s going to be grizzle, there`s going to be meat and skin, a lot of
other things still hanging around.
So, despite the elements, despite the environment, all right, five weeks aren`t enough. Even if there were critters around, et cetera, there would
still be other tissue elements there beside pure bones.
PINSKY: Bill, maybe they`re describing it as such. Maybe there is more there. They`re just saying predominantly skeletal remains.
LLOYD: It could be a language issue. It could be a language issue. But the first point is a positive ID. And with those remains alone, they`re
going to be able to confirm, they already have probably if that`s Hannah or not. They`re going to look at the dental records. They`re going to do
some bone measurement.
And they`re going to scrape inside the bone for some blood, just blood typing alone. Some of the more sophisticated blood subtypes, to get a
confirmed identity of whose skeleton that is.
PINSKY: How about the suspect`s DNA, is there enough left behind to identify him, as well?
LLOYD: Depending if it`s there. In addition to fluids, if there was a fight, there could be blood stains on the fabric. There could be fibers
and other materials from the vehicle for example, or from his own clothes that they could find either on the body remains, under the finger prints,
or those pair of pants that could be used to connect to perpetrator with Hannah`s remains.
PINSKY: And, Judy, did you hear what we`re talking about in the last block? We`re trying to make sense of serial killers and how surprisingly
they can be often charming and you can never imagine that person is a serial killer. Not unexpected.
JUDY HO, PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY: Not unexpected at all, Dr. Drew. And most of them do hide in plain view of their community.
But we know there are four types of serial killers in terms of motives for why they kill. There`s the missionary ones where they`re all about the
mission. Something about ridding the world of some kind of evil or ill that they believe they`re actually doing something good.
There are the visionary types who really kill because there`s a psychotic break from reality and they believe they`re carrying out something that
relates to that psychoticism.
And then there are two really disturbing types and I really hope that this (INAUDIBLE) one of them. And that`s the hedonistic type and the ones
trying to do it not just for pleasure but also for power and domination. Those tend to be the ones that have abuse histories from their childhood
history, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: To clarify, Erica, if you`re backing up on this, there needs to be often times some sort of environmental problem, but even more so a genetic
issue for people to get set up for this kind of behavior.
ERICA AMERICA, TV HOST: It`s usually a mix between bio, social. It`s a mix of different things, the genetics, the environment that they were born
in, as well as their personality. A lot of times we see anti-social personality disorder or conduct disorder and their earlier --
PINSKY: Do you agree with me, the last two --
AMERICA: Setting fires, hurting animals.
PINSKY: Hurting animals. But these last two that Judy mentioned, I think we may have that going on here, do you agree?
AMERICA: I`m sorry, about the power. Absolutely. I mean, we can see, you know, preying on young college students, you know, in college towns, it
seems to be getting worse and worse as this getting along. I don`t know if he unconsciously even wants to get caught, because it seems like he`s not
trying to hide the evidence.
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: If these -- oh, my gosh, if these serial killers can just lay underneath the radar and there`s so many of them out there potentially, how
do we screen for them if they are charming? How do we notice they are red flags? Are there any that you guys can --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Certainly -- I mean, a couple easy things. It`s the buddy system. Don`t go anywhere along. Don`t accept drinks from other people, that sort
of thing.
And it really is not something that, you know, (AUDIO GAP) suss out. I don`t think. You guys think you can?
SCHACHER: What if they`re a neighbor or friend, anything to help detect them?
HO: Well, one of things, Sam, is that they`re very superficially charming. So, even though they`re really nice to you, it kind of comes out of
nowhere. That`s why it`s easy for them to prey on people who do so some insecurity issues, because they love that attention. But if it`s
completely unwarranted and out of nowhere, I feel like that`s always a red flag any way. But it`s different something that`s linked to these types of
people.
And interestingly, 75 percent of them, after the age of 12, actually continue to wet their beds consistently.
PINSKY: I didn`t know that.
HO: That is a very interesting statistic. About 75 percent of them do that.
PINSKY: Now, I`m going to go back to this story in Indiana where a man was just arrested and police say has confessed to killing seven women. They
believe he met some of those women on that Web site we showed you, backpages.com. My question, Judy, is why the sudden confession? This guy
may have been doing this for years and years, and then all of a sudden, boom, he takes them to the bodies.
HO: Right. And, you know, I think when you look back at the research about why serial killers confess, you know, some of them actually, they
want to be stopped. Like they really can`t help themselves, and they literally want to be stopped. Maybe they`re trying to repent or they start
to feel bad to some degree.
But the more likely scenario is that they`re doing it because that narcissistic part of these serial killer`s personalities.
PINSKY: They want to be known for it?
HO: They want to be known for it. It`s like a notoriety thing.
PINSKY: Bill, have you dealt with these kinds of cases? I know you have certain, you`ve done a lot specimens. But stuff like this?
LLOYD: Yes. Back to that earlier point, had he been stopped after one murder, he may have confessed from the very first time. They want to be
caught.
PINSKY: They want to because they want to stop it or they want the notoriety? Those are different things.
LLOYD: For those that have that toxic behavior that they don`t want to stop it, they recognize that it`s wrong. The only way they can stop is to
kill themselves or to get caught and to put away.
PINSKY: Somebody stops them.
America, go ahead.
AMERICA: I definitely think it could be both of those things, the notoriety, any of that, but also it could be self-preservation. Maybe they
think in some sick way they can get a plea deal and not get the death penalty. It could be that.
PINSKY: OK, Judy, so this begs the issue that people, too bad we don`t have Leeann in this panel to yell at us about. It starts to distill down
to evil or ill, sick or evil. How do people understand the difference?
HO: It`s really tough with serial killers because it`s hard to have any empathy for them. But I do believe at the basic level there`s something
biological you just can`t deal with. The environment obviously sets off these serial killers. But that biological piece, Dr. Drew, you can`t make
that up, that`s what they`re born with.
PINSKY: You can`t change it. You can`t change it.
SCHACHER: Can they ever be rehabilitated?
PINSKY: I don`t think so.
Dr. Lloyd, do you agree?
LLOYD: All behaviors or gestures, people do things for a reason. Identify the reason and you can define to find a solution. Maybe not cure them, but
at least help them deal with their problems.
PINSKY: While they`re in prison, Sam.
SCHACHER: Not with gangster. I mean, you deal with it.
PINSKY: All right. Thank you, panel.
Next up, an adopted son, this is another kid that he`s young, so we can talk about whether he has potential for rehabilitation. These parents
adopt a young boy and he molests their children, his siblings. You`ll hear from these parents who want to know, why they had not been warmed.
And later, wait until you see how a teacher accused of sex crimes dressed at school. I will show you.
We`re back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trish and Steven have seven children but one is not in this picture. Their eldest, an adopted son, is shown on the left. He`s
now court ordered to live in a separate home Trish and Steven pay for because he was convicted of fondling their other children. They said his
social worker never mentioned previous incidents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I told her, well, we can handle his behaviors as long as he`s not a danger to my children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But after he was adopted last year, they discovered their biological son was making strange gestures, saying that`s what his
brother would do to him.
UNDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was like all right, I was getting scared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The state cannot take him back now that he`s been adopted, nor would Trish and Steven try to get him up. Still, the parents
are angry at their social worker and the state.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They lied to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Leeann, Loni and Vanessa.
The parents on the video say the state of Washington put four of their children in danger, in harm`s way after they learned their 12-year-old
adopted son had been sexually abusing them. They are now suing the case.
Sam, what else do we know?
SCHACHER: Well, according to this lawsuit filing, Dr. Drew, they have two other adopted kids and two biological kids. The parents say the boy had
been convicted of child molestation. It was their 8-year-old biological son who called their attention to this.
And the mom says it was happening to two of the other children, the 12- year-old is now living with the father`s parents in a completely separate home.
PINSKY: And in March, Trish the mom says she got a letter from the internal watchdog of the Social Services Department. It said, quote, "The
decision to place and maintain this youth in your home was unreasonable." Loni, really? This sounds like profoundly out of line.
COOMBS: It absolutely is. Look, if they didn`t know prior to this that he had these tendencies, that`s one thing. But they knew. Not only did they
know, but they had put into place a plan for this young boy in the house he was in prior that he could never be left alone with these young kids. Then
they put him in this home know thing were other young children in there and never mentioned a word to the parents. That is not just unreasonable.
That`s unconscionable.
PINSKY: I`m confused it`s so crazy. You know what I mean? They were so desperate to place this kid they were willing to lie?
SCHACHER: And harm other kids.
PINSKY: And put other kids in harm`s way.
TWEEDEN: Obviously, whoever those workers were that put them in there should be held accountable. This family obviously the mom and dad, they
have a heart of gold. I mean, foster kids, that`s the hardest thing to do. They adopted the foster kids and they had multiple of them.
What everyone teaches their young children, if an adult touches you inappropriately, you have to tell somebody, tell another adult. But you
don`t tell them about other children. It seems to me like this 8-year-old, none of the children spoke up because they thought oh, another kid. Kids
are literal.
PINSKY: Let`s focus in on that statement, Leeann, is that kids don`t understand they`re being sexually abused by other children when that
happens.
I deal with this all the time, as an adult, they don`t understand they`ve been sexually abused. Oh, we played doctor or something. But no, no, it
becomes sexual. At that point, it`s traumatizing.
Let me read for you the things that this social worker also didn`t tell these parents, they allege any way, that he threatened the other children
with knives and his mother with scissors. He planned a child and threw a chair at his principal. I don`t know why the school didn`t alert anybody.
He assaulted younger children in the home, abused family pets and they say he sexually abused a child in a prior home, was barred from unsupervised
contact with other children, but they hand him over to this new family.
BARNETT: They should definitely be held accountable. I know what it is to live in a home with foster children. My mother -- I had two foster
brothers at one point. You do take these children in because you feel like sometimes they`re just forgotten. People don`t want --
PINSKY: Hold on a second, Vanessa. How old were you and how old these kids when that happened?
BARNETT: I was in high school and these kids were d we had a 6-year-old young boy in the house at one point, then 8-year-old, and they stayed with
us for a while at different times. But they were around my brother`s age.
PINSKY: It went OK? Did it go OK?
BARNETT: It went well, but they -- foster children -- they do have some issues. As long as you alert the families and you tell them what they can
expect or what they`re getting into, families still want to help. They understand that these kids can`t control their situations. It`s
unfortunate that this 12-year-old has had issues. We know statistically, if he`s harming other kids in this way, he was most likely harmed this way
himself.
PINSKY: Oh, for sure. For sure.
BARNETT: It`s disappointing and it`s hurtful that the state didn`t warn the people, because they didn`t give the family an opportunity to say, hey,
can we still somehow help this young boy. Not everyone wants to turn their back to these kids in need.
TWEEDEN: Obviously, the family still wants to keep him.
PINSKY: Which is heart-wrenching, right? That`s so poignant. This is our child, we can`t give up on him, but we can`t get him around the other kids
because they`ll harm them.
SCHACHER: And they`re paying for an additional home. But screw the state here. This is insane. This isn`t just them not forgetting to disclose the
fact this kid, it wasn`t his birthday, or we forgot to give you his middle name. This is full blown forgot to disclose the fact that this kid was
abusing other children.
PINSKY: And Sam, I bet the reason they are suing is they need the money to be able to sustain .
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: They probably aren`t suing out of .
SCHACHER: And what about the - and what about the other children, Dr. Drew .
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: They are getting treatment. Loni, go ahead, Loni.
COOMBS: Exactly. And Dr. Drew, the crazy thing is, when they called and reported it to the child services, they opened an investigation into the
parents immediately. Like to turn around and cover their butts they will now - we`re looking at you, like somehow they were in fault in this? It`s
crazy.
BARNETT: And the sad - I believe this was malicious, I believe they covered this up and they hid it on purpose to place the child in the home.
PINSKY: Can you put that tweet up? There was tweets ago, there was about it when children are previously molested, they end up acting another kid.
Sam, what do you got to read to us?
SCHACHER: I have a number of tweets, Dr. Drew. From Sarah Williams, "What an impossible situation. Prayers go out to the victims and even the boy.
He too have been abused in between homes. It`s horrible." And from Julia Lamson, as usual, Social Services probably didn`t tell parents about
child`s history. Not fair." So, is this like an epidemic? Usual? How many times is Social Services not disclosing this pertinent information?
PINSKY: The epidemic is that we`ve come through, and it`s actually getting better now, but the epidemic is on childhood sexual abuse. And
child on child sexual abuse is somewhere around 30 or 40 percent of the incidents of sexual abuse on a minor. And it is probably higher than that,
because kids are getting, they don`t report it goes unnoticed, they don`t remember, they don`t talk about it, and as an adult they don`t realize
that`s what it was, it is profoundly affecting the kids as they develop when they`ve been through an overtly sexual experience, even when it`s in
the hands of a kid their age or even younger. It is profound and we have gone through this crazy epidemic in this last 20 or 30 years.
Next up, we are going to hear more from the parents and the behavior bureau is back. And later, a teacher who is - there he is, he is accused of
trading grades for sex, he dressed like this on the job. That`s right. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The parents are angry at their social worker and the state. Trish and Steven have seven children. Their eldest, an adopted
son, is shown on the left here. He`s now court ordered to live in a separate home Trish and Steven pay for because he was convicted of fondling
their other children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you love him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In my own way, I guess you could say I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just throwing him away is not something -- it`s not an option.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and the behavior bureau. Judy, Erica and Heather McDonald, comedian star of her own special on Showtime. "I Don`t Mean to
Brag." She does anyway.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: We have some shocking - from the U.S. Department of Justice. As I mentioned in the previous segment, over a third of crimes committed
against minors are committed by minors. Police say, 12-year olds, the age of this boy on this particular case, is the age at which they of course,
noticed the sharp increase in juvenile on juvenile sex offenses. That, of course, is the edge at which testosterone is coming on line and these kids
who are merely objects of abuse become perpetrators. Boys commit 93 percent of the offenses. Erica, this does not surprise me. Does it
surprise you?
AMERICA: No, it doesn`t. I mean the boys and girls as well, but are coming out of their sexual latency period, they are experiencing major
hormones and sexuality, and they are just - they are acting out to the people in closest proximity, which is peers their own age. So for boys
around 12 is when it`s really, really strong. So it`s not surprising to me at all, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Now, Sam, what`s up?
SCHACHER: Yeah, is this kid, though, are we dealing with somebody who just perhaps was also a victim .
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: Or much more though, Dr. Drew, the fact that he was hurting animals? The fact that he was, you know, hurting other people and that this
was going on for quite some time. I mean what are we really dealing with?
PINSKY: Well, Judy, I`ll ask you - I`ll throw that at your fit, because it could be something really bad here.
HO: Right. And you know, as Sam just mentioned, that tip-off of the torturing animals is one of our biggest signs for a young budding
psychopath. And when these types of issues surface before the age of ten, which it sounds like it did for this individual .
SCHACHER: Yes.
HO: That`s when the trajectory is the worse. These are the people who are more likely to become the anti-social personality disorder adults and
become involved in crimes much earlier than that, even in their mid till 18.
PINSKY: If you remember Jodi Arias, the conversation with Judy we used to have about her, that`s what I would always say, we didn`t see all that
leading up to her. So it was hard to call her a psychopath or a sociopath. We didn`t have the evidence - no one reported anything like this in her
case. Now, in this particular - the parents say the boy had what - a psychological evaluation in 2012. They found he had "potentially psychotic
and clearly violent thinking."
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: And so, there you go. And none of that got to the parents. Heather, how do you react to this as a mom?
MCDONALD: I mean, you know, it`s really terrible, and I think they are in a horrible position, and I do think they deserve some money. Because
they`re not walking away from this child.
And it`s going to be very expensive.
PINSKY: And it`s sad, isn`t it? They said, we love him, we can`t throw him away, we took this responsibility.
MCDONALD: Exactly.
PINSKY: We want to see it through.
MCDONALD: And I think it`s really difficult, because I actually know a woman, and her ex-husband is seeing someone, whose son has been accused and
caught fondling a younger child.
PINSKY: Wait, wait, so these are two divorced couples.
MCDONALD: They`re both - they are divorced and the woman .
PINSKY: They each have a child.
MCDONALD: Yes. And so the woman is concerned that her younger child will be associating with .
PINSKY: His child.
MCDONALD: The ex`s new girlfriend`s child. And it`s a really hard thing to do, because if both parents are confident, you really can`t say no, you
can`t be around this other kid. So my advice to her was, I think you just really have to educate your almost nine-year-old child in saying - that,
you know, because it`s not even - look, there`s no sleepers. It doesn`t have to be a sleepover.
PINSKY: No.
MCDONALD: It can be ten minutes playing a video game.
PINSKY: Absolutely.
MCDONALD: It happens in the back of classrooms with older kids doing this, and sometimes yes, I believe that they`re most likely molested, the decree
of it, and then other times when I hear about this things, I`m like, did I see this somewhere? Did they - could that ever be a possibility?
Sometimes, could there ever be a little bit of innocence of not really understanding what`s happening, not for this particular 12-year old, but
for even younger kids where, you know, sometimes they say things, sometimes my son says things and I don`t think he understands what he`s saying.
PINSKY: Erica respond there. Go ahead.
AMERICA: Yeah, no, I just wanted to just take a second to say that, you know, I think like all thing there is a mix of people who become foster
parents and not everybody is 100 percent genuine. You know, there are some people who just do it for the money. There are some people who do it for
the genuine desire to help kids. And I think these parents are those types of parents.
PINSKY: Yes.
AMERICA: I just wanted to say at that point. And the fact that they are committed to raising this son, even though he potentially abused the other
biological or adopted children just says to me that they`re really good people. And I think like, you know, that like she just said, that they
deserve some money to go towards the therapy or whatever it takes.
PINSKY: Yeah.
AMERICA: But yeah, it`s - this is - with an anti- with a conduct disorder/antisocial thing brewing, it`s really difficult how to treat
something like this.
PINSKY: Yes.
AMERICA: You know, but it`s good to start it early, I mean that`s the best that we can do.
PINSKY: That`s the best you can do.
AMERICA: Is it possible to stop it?
PINSKY: It`s all right. But Judy, where do you - how do you - where do you come down with this? With Heather`s? She`s sort of eluding, sort of
toying with or flirting with the idea of distorted memories.
HO: That`s right. And you know, we know that`s a documented thing, because memories are not like video playbacks. You know, we construct our
memories, and so distorted memories can absolutely be a piece of this. Now, sometimes, yes, kids will say really weird things. They come out of
nowhere. As we know, there`s been multiple lawsuits. You know, even probably in this year where there may have been a molestation that was
actually a false allegation.
PINSKY: Yeah.
HO: But most of the times this comes from somewhere. So, either it`s being implanted by the adult who is trying to get custody of this child or
the person has heard it somewhere. And as we know, Dr. Drew, in this family, one of the children started making sexual gestures, which is how
the parents found out about it.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: Because they are emulating what this abuser did.
PINSKY: And Heather, in my experience, when you have a child that`s pre- pubertal and they`ve had some sort of explicit sexual exposure, they don`t have that information either way, it doesn`t make sense to them. And when
somebody does something like that to them, they are affected by it, and they will talk about it in ways that are really disturbing to them, and
explicit without really understanding they`re being explicit. So I`ve not found it to be, and particularly in talking to the younger kids, to be
something that is confusing. What have your kids been saying?
MCDONALD: No, no, they haven`t - but this is- even something like - you know, one time somebody said oh, kiss my pee-pee or whatever.
(LAUGHTER)
MCDONALD: Now, that- I was like that, I know that thing happened .
PINSKY: Judy, (CROSSTALK)
MCDONALD: No, but I think because of the way it was, that`s funny to them. That sounds funny.
PINSKY: Right.
MCDONALD: They don`t .
(CROSSTALK)
MCDONALD: You never do that, you never let somebody touch you.
PINSKY: That sounds like something they heard.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Judy, last thought, we`ve got to go.
HO: Yeah, I just feel like we need to have this education way earlier, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yeah.
HO: We should be having this stranger danger thing at age four or five.
PINSKY: Yes, absolutely.
Next up, an update on the teacher who was accused of preying out on students. Interesting pictures of what he wore to school have surfaced.
Here they are. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was the cool teacher. Students called him Shea (ph). He had a flight simulator in the classroom. Shared cigarettes and
alcohol with students. Even texting 15 and 16-year-olds late into the night. Shea`s (ph) undoing began this summer when he sent a snap chat
photo of his penis to one of his alleged victims.
At least seven victims now identified, and all of this under the noses of parents and school officials.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Wow, I`m back with Sam, Heather, Leeann and Vanessa. Take a look at this teacher. He is our most tweeted story of the night. He dressed up
for high school masquerade`s party as a French maid in 2009 and then Britney Spears in 2012. A little dated. The same teacher just got charged
as you heard with sex crimes against students, including sending lewd photos to an underage girl on snap chat. Sam, what else do we have
revealed on him?
SCHACHER: I`m sorry, the students called him Shea?
PINSKY: I know.
SCHACHER: Wow! OK. So he sent a photo of his penis to a 16-year-old. He exchanged 10,000 text messages with a 15-year old, another one of his
students. He took a student to a sex club. He took another student to a nude beach. He supplied students with cigarettes, alcohol and good grades.
And Dr. Drew, there`s so many red flags here, I don`t even know where to begin.
PINSKY: Heather, did you have one of these when you were in high school?
MCDONALD: Actually, I did have this one teacher, he was my drama teacher. He was a very close talker. And one day he kind of took my face and like
kissed my cheek and it really freaked me out. But because he was such a good drama teacher, I did not want to lose the drama teacher, so I went
right to another teacher, a female teacher, and I said look, I don`t think he knows what he`s doing, but by telling her - she talked to him and then
he like - never got close to people anymore and really watched it.
PINSKY: So, so he behaved himself, that`s .
MCDONALD: By the end, maybe - that`s how this guy got away with this for so long. He was also a good teacher and that allowed him to get away with
this nonsense.
PINSKY: I don`t know how good a teacher he was.
MCDONALD: Yeah, but, you know, he might have just been cool to some of the kids, but Dr. Drew, let`s face it, that principal should be - put in jail
with him, and the key should be thrown away, because they are both responsible for this mess. And I don`t know what it is about teachers
today, but this is killing me. You know, this guy dressed inappropriately. Other teachers even acknowledged, yeah, we saw him walking outside the
school with a hot young Russian student. But yeah, you know, nobody could be that stupid. Really? I mean all of these signs were up there, red
flags, this guy is dressing like a woman at school parties and nobody says anything? All of a sudden this girl gets this penis shot. Her dad turns
him in. This girl is a hero for speaking up, because it seems like none of these other students were really worried about it, but this guy, you know .
SCHACHER: Or they were scared to speak up.
MCDONALD: Well, of course, they were scared to speak up. This guy needs to be locked up and the key thrown away, Dr. Drew.
BARNETT: I don`t know if they are always scared to speak up. I know - there`s been - not plenty, but there have been a few older men in my life when I was underage that did inappropriate things, and in a sad, probably
sick way, I probably should have said to Dr. Drew about this, you almost feel kind of like, oh, this older guy likes me or oh, look at me, like I`m
so hot.
PINSKY: I`m special.
BARNETT: Yeah, you feel special. And so unfortunately, he made these kids feel special. He groomed them in a way and, of course, some of these red
flags, you can explain. Everybody knows you get a slutty path for Halloween. So here he is in slutty costume. And he`s not hot, nobody
probably even care, probably no one thought that he was here to groom kids and take advantage of them. And he kept doing it because kids want
cigarettes, kids want good grades, kids want these things and he took it one step too far.
SCHACHER: But a number of the teachers said something to the principal. Apparently he was the principal`s favorite because he was launching the
aerospace program. Who cares? BFD, where are their priorities?
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Don`t you think there could be a blanket policy in every school that teachers can never text the students?
PINSKY: Yes!
SCHACHER: And I also don`t think teachers should be texting parents, either. Because inappropriate things start happening between the teachers
and some of the parents. Everything should be via e-mail that can be the school e-mail that people can follow.
PINSKY: It`s about boundaries. It`s about the structure. It`s about having like - like physicians, you know, have to have a structure and a
relationship. The boundaries get blurry and certain people can`t maintain those boundaries and it ends up being a problem. The really sick part
about this, though, is kids this age are just learning about boundaries and it`s particularly the most vulnerable that need to be contained and be
taught about boundaries and really sustained within a safe environment. And you - those boundaries become porous, these kids are damaged sometimes
for life. Now, a reminder, you can find us any time on Instagram at Dr. Drew HLN.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sean Shaynak was charged for sending an explicit picture to a 16-year-old student. When he went to court, a bombshell
awaited him. He was arrested again, indicted on 36 new charges. Prosecutors say Shaynak took a 15-year-old to a nude beach and had sex with
three girls. He allegedly sent photos of his private parts to several minors, grabbed them and gave them alcohol and cigarettes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Heather, Leeann and Vanessa. Teachers now locked up, charged with sex crimes against at least six female students, as you
heard. Years ago, he chose these costumes to wear to a school sponsored masquerade party for high school seniors.
And I guess Sam has even more details.
SCHACHER: Yeah, that`s right, Dr. Drew. In 2005, he - a restraining order was filed against him, this was in Maryland. He was accused of beating up
his 11-year-old neighbor. No charges were filed, and then it was three years later that that school hired him.
PINSKY: Now, you guys, during the break, Vanessa and Heather were regaling me the stories of things that happened to them. Vanessa`s we`re
going to talk about on the after show. If you go to Facebook or to hlntv.com, we are going to have - she has a very interesting story to tell
us. Heather, you had somebody flash you. You don`t flash anymore .
MCDONALD: I said nobody - yeah, nobody flashes anymore. They`re so lazy, they just send, you know, a dick pic.
PINSKY: But you know .
MCDONALD: I`m like .
PINSKY: But you know .
MCDONALD: They used to have to walk out on the corner and flash you, as you are walking home from school, which has happened to me twice.
PINSKY: Leeann, you too had this kind of craziness?
TWEEDEN: No, I didn`t have anything like that happen in school.
PINSKY: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
TWEEDEN: Boring public school in Manassas, Virginia.
PINSKY: You are not vulnerable.
TWEEDEN: I have no good story for this.
PINSKY: But Samantha, I think, she has the look of something on her face.
SCHACHER: I`m trying to rack my brain and nothing stands out, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Well, the point is - the point is - that not just to be funny, but to point out that this is a relatively common thing that women go
through. And it`s not - we have to begin another thing we have to educate young people about, because it`s about when our -- all this, the last four
segments have been about when young people`s boundaries are violated. And now with the electronic media, the boundaries are unclear. People don`t
understand, is - the episode, last segment. We probably shouldn`t even be texting between parents and teachers, and certainly not between teachers
and students. Right, Heather?
MCDONALD: Yeah, I totally agree. Because with an e-mail and if it`s going right to the school e-mail, any time the principal or anybody can just
check it. You know, and I think that`s what - that would keep people on their toes and would keep some of this from happening.
TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew, now I think when people text with children, you know, that`s the way they communicate.
PINSKY: I know.
TWEEDEN: So they feel like they have feelings for these people. Because you only saw your teacher when you have them an hour in school or whatever
class you had. Now when that teacher is texting you 10,000 times .
SCHACHER: Oh mine god.
TWEEDEN: One student, of course that student is going to feel like they know this teacher, they have a relationship.
PINSKY: Special. Special. Special
TWEEDEN: You feel special. Exactly. You didn`t have that before cell phone.
PINSKY: Beware of special relationships, everybody. Any special relationships. Whatsup .
BARNETT: Parents, I think, need to - this is another case where parents need to be more hands on. Like you can get that bill from the phone
company and you can look and see why is my kid texting this number 10 million times. But I think you just have to step up the game, this day and
age, like technology is taking over .
SCHACHER: Take your kid`s phone away.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: Texting penises .
PINSKY: Leeann, I know you are upset about the fact that this guy - although he`s in jail, is still being paid. I mean, we know, I have mixed
feelings, so teachers, you need to be protected by the unions. Teachers don`t make enough money but this is just ridiculous.
TWEEDEN: Crazy! You think this guy needs to be protected? I mean in a case like this where he has obviously abused people and it`s been proven
and we know it and he`s just going to court, this guy needs to take the money away, no - nothing. I mean this guy needs to be forgotten about and
taken away from children.
PINSKY: We will leave it at that. DVR us and watch us any time. Thank you, panel. "Forensic Files" is up next. As I said, you can follow us on
Facebook, hlntv.com. And we can do the aftershow there. You`ll hear Vanessa`s story.
END
